If the U.S. government has been corrupted by secrecy, it is an extraordinary matter.
You give no response to this opinion. Instead you
only talk about my criticism of the Jewish culture.
Do you see how what you wrote is an example of
what I said? People of the Jewish culture often
give the impression that they care only about themselves
I understand your point. I just reacted on what you said about Israel because i didn't agree with your analysis, in particular:
- the fact that the conflict started 3,000 years ago
- the arrogance of the Jews, who think they are "God's Chosen People.
I didn't react on what you said about violence since i share some of your views on that point.
I just found a contradiction in your way of blaming violence and what you said of Jews, which i found quite violent in a way.
Now i have maybe some clues to try and answer to this:
people have been persecuting the Jews for about
3,100 years, not just the last few hundred. What
other group has inspired such dislike?
There is something special with the fact that Jews are a ("God's Chosen") people and not just guys who share the same religion: Judaism is not a religion to which you can convert. You are a Jew if your mother was a Jew and otherwise you're not.
Thus you cannot make people become Jews against their willing. This is important since it's one of the main duties in the two other major religions based on the same story (Abraham etc.), namely Christianism and Islam, to go around the world and convert people.
My point here is that in the past, when a group of Christians or a group of Moslims didn't have the
same religion of its neighbours, it just tried to make them change. Most of the time there was a war and the winner imposed its religion. Even if there is some resistance, after a few generations, people don't remember that their ancestors didn't want of that religion. This is especially true because the religions have taken some elements of local cultures. In Catholicism for instance, the cult of the saints is a way to integrate a need for "neighborhood divinities". So people can keep their culture in some way, even is they change religion.
Actually it's how Judaism started, before religious texts were officially stated. In that point i totally agree with you: the history of Judaism (the part which is written in the "Old Testament") is made of wars. But i think the problem became totally different when Judaism was faced to a dissident movement (the early Christians) which didn't want the "God's Chosen People"-thing any more.
Now when Jews lived close to people that didn't have the same religion and that wanted to convert them, either they were converted, killed,...or just hated, as having "the wrong religion".
I guess we are the only two who still read this thread but i don't feel comfortable leaving anti-semitic speech unreplied.
About the arrogance of saying that [Jews] are
"God's Chosen People": besides the fact that i don't know that many Jews who are sure they are "God's Chosen People", i ask you to think for one moment, how people can survive and keep their culture when they have been chased out any place they tried to live in.
Why aren't Jews liked so much in France, and more generally in Europe? Because they happened to have the wrong religion in the wrong place. During the Middle Age, in France and Spain, Jews were persecuted as heretics by the catholic Inquisition. And for hundreds of years, children learned at church that Jews have killed Jesus and that they didn't want to accept the right religion.
How do you think people can resist to such an every-day hate? Maybe by believing that God is with them, helping them. Don't you think so?
Don't forget that the Jewish record Christians call the "Old Testament" contains many stories of violence
... as all history books of all countries. History is made of violence and wars. Actually it's kind of how humankind works.
Remember, I am only trying to provide an explanation. If you have alternate explanations, please provide them.
As for the problem with Israelis and Palestinians,
i think it has nothing to do with the history of the region 3,000 ago and i shall try to give an "alternate explanation".
It all began at the end of the 19th century when Jews started to immigrate in Palestine (which was a British protectorate) and buy lands. In the beginning of the 20th century indeed, anti-Semitism started to become stronger and stronger in Europe, and Jews started to think that maybe they could start to gather in one place rather than being scattered in so many places where they "aren't liked so much" since they have the `wrong religion'.
In 1920, British government (which administrated the region) promised to create a Jewish state in the region where lands belonged to Jews. Of course that's not as simple since all lands were not connected, there were Arabs inbetween, and that's why it started to become that intricate.
In 1948, when the state of Israel was created, an Arab state was supposed to be created as well but
Arab people wanted the whole territory, and
Arab countries in the neighborhood (Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others) didn't want a non-Arab country in this region and they declared war. After one of the wars between Israel and
these Arab states (the Six Days War, 1967), the Arab people who lived in the former Palestine (name of the british protectorate before 1948) started to organize in terrorist movements in order to get an Arab state created (that would be called Palestine, so they called themselves Palestinans).
Since then of course there are from both sides religious people who say (and teach) that all dates back to the history of both religions, but it's just propaganda, as always.
Now, all this has absolutely nothing to do with the attack on WTC and Pentagon, since neither Binladen nor most of islamists who do terrorism have never lived in the British protectorate (whose surface is probably less than 0.5 percent of the whole Arab countries'surface). If some of them use Israel as an argument, i really don't see how it can seriously have any connection with the claimings of people in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever.
The Jews say that they are
the "chosen people" of God.
The Jews say that Arabs are descended from an
illegitimate child of their tribal
founder, Abraham, and a slave girl.
It is not difficult to understand the thoughts
of the Arabs. It is not difficult to understand
that it is annoying to
live next to a group of people who claim that
they are superior, and that Arabs are inferior.
What about killing all these bloody jews that
think they are superior? All this trouble is because of them, ain't it?
They still haven't understood after 2000 years,
that christians are superiors?
Seriously, you really think the war between Israel
and Palestine lasts for more than 3000 years?
I thought in the Middle Age, the region was occupied by Europeans, who were "wiped" from there
by the way.
There are numerous examples in History of places
where Jews and Arabs lived together without saying
to each other that they were superior, inferior or
bastards. There are much less examples in History
of places where Jews could live with Christians
without being "wiped".
Michael Jennings, i find your message one of the
most violent i've read these days (even in France,
my country, where Jews are not liked so much).
-- Christophe Prieur.
another bug in the paper
on
Does P = NP?
·
· Score: 1
I quote the paper :
Let there be a graph G=(X,Gamma), where X is the set of graph vertices, and Gamma is a map X into X.
A map means that to each element of X, another element of X... and only one (or else it's not a map, it's a relation).
If i'm not wrong, this guy solves the problem of the partition into cliques for graphs with only one edge leaving each vertex, which i hope is polynomial !!
Slashdot Mirror
no idea
Obsoleted by RFC 3207 (Feb 2002)
If the U.S. government has been corrupted by secrecy, it is an extraordinary matter.
You give no response to this opinion. Instead you only talk about my criticism of the Jewish culture.
Do you see how what you wrote is an example of what I said? People of the Jewish culture often give the impression that they care only about themselves
I understand your point. I just reacted on what you said about Israel because i didn't agree with your analysis, in particular:
- the fact that the conflict started 3,000 years ago
- the arrogance of the Jews, who think they are "God's Chosen People.
I didn't react on what you said about violence since i share some of your views on that point. I just found a contradiction in your way of blaming violence and what you said of Jews, which i found quite violent in a way.
Now i have maybe some clues to try and answer to this:
people have been persecuting the Jews for about 3,100 years, not just the last few hundred. What other group has inspired such dislike?
There is something special with the fact that Jews are a ("God's Chosen") people and not just guys who share the same religion: Judaism is not a religion to which you can convert. You are a Jew if your mother was a Jew and otherwise you're not. Thus you cannot make people become Jews against their willing. This is important since it's one of the main duties in the two other major religions based on the same story (Abraham etc.), namely Christianism and Islam, to go around the world and convert people.
My point here is that in the past, when a group of Christians or a group of Moslims didn't have the same religion of its neighbours, it just tried to make them change. Most of the time there was a war and the winner imposed its religion. Even if there is some resistance, after a few generations, people don't remember that their ancestors didn't want of that religion. This is especially true because the religions have taken some elements of local cultures. In Catholicism for instance, the cult of the saints is a way to integrate a need for "neighborhood divinities". So people can keep their culture in some way, even is they change religion.
Actually it's how Judaism started, before religious texts were officially stated. In that point i totally agree with you: the history of Judaism (the part which is written in the "Old Testament") is made of wars. But i think the problem became totally different when Judaism was faced to a dissident movement (the early Christians) which didn't want the "God's Chosen People"-thing any more.
Now when Jews lived close to people that didn't have the same religion and that wanted to convert them, either they were converted, killed, ...or just hated, as having "the wrong religion".
You see my point?
I guess we are the only two who still read this thread but i don't feel comfortable leaving anti-semitic speech unreplied.
About the arrogance of saying that [Jews] are "God's Chosen People": besides the fact that i don't know that many Jews who are sure they are "God's Chosen People", i ask you to think for one moment, how people can survive and keep their culture when they have been chased out any place they tried to live in.
Why aren't Jews liked so much in France, and more generally in Europe? Because they happened to have the wrong religion in the wrong place. During the Middle Age, in France and Spain, Jews were persecuted as heretics by the catholic Inquisition. And for hundreds of years, children learned at church that Jews have killed Jesus and that they didn't want to accept the right religion.
How do you think people can resist to such an every-day hate? Maybe by believing that God is with them, helping them. Don't you think so?
Don't forget that the Jewish record Christians call the "Old Testament" contains many stories of violence
... as all history books of all countries. History is made of violence and wars. Actually it's kind of how humankind works.
Remember, I am only trying to provide an explanation. If you have alternate explanations, please provide them.
As for the problem with Israelis and Palestinians, i think it has nothing to do with the history of the region 3,000 ago and i shall try to give an "alternate explanation".
It all began at the end of the 19th century when Jews started to immigrate in Palestine (which was a British protectorate) and buy lands. In the beginning of the 20th century indeed, anti-Semitism started to become stronger and stronger in Europe, and Jews started to think that maybe they could start to gather in one place rather than being scattered in so many places where they "aren't liked so much" since they have the `wrong religion'.
In 1920, British government (which administrated the region) promised to create a Jewish state in the region where lands belonged to Jews. Of course that's not as simple since all lands were not connected, there were Arabs inbetween, and that's why it started to become that intricate.
In 1948, when the state of Israel was created, an Arab state was supposed to be created as well but Arab people wanted the whole territory, and Arab countries in the neighborhood (Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others) didn't want a non-Arab country in this region and they declared war. After one of the wars between Israel and these Arab states (the Six Days War, 1967), the Arab people who lived in the former Palestine (name of the british protectorate before 1948) started to organize in terrorist movements in order to get an Arab state created (that would be called Palestine, so they called themselves Palestinans).
Since then of course there are from both sides religious people who say (and teach) that all dates back to the history of both religions, but it's just propaganda, as always.
Now, all this has absolutely nothing to do with the attack on WTC and Pentagon, since neither Binladen nor most of islamists who do terrorism have never lived in the British protectorate (whose surface is probably less than 0.5 percent of the whole Arab countries'surface). If some of them use Israel as an argument, i really don't see how it can seriously have any connection with the claimings of people in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever.
The Jews say that they are the "chosen people" of God. The Jews say that Arabs are descended from an illegitimate child of their tribal founder, Abraham, and a slave girl.
It is not difficult to understand the thoughts of the Arabs. It is not difficult to understand that it is annoying to live next to a group of people who claim that they are superior, and that Arabs are inferior.
What about killing all these bloody jews that think they are superior? All this trouble is because of them, ain't it? They still haven't understood after 2000 years, that christians are superiors?
Seriously, you really think the war between Israel and Palestine lasts for more than 3000 years? I thought in the Middle Age, the region was occupied by Europeans, who were "wiped" from there by the way.
There are numerous examples in History of places where Jews and Arabs lived together without saying to each other that they were superior, inferior or bastards. There are much less examples in History of places where Jews could live with Christians without being "wiped".
Michael Jennings, i find your message one of the most violent i've read these days (even in France, my country, where Jews are not liked so much).
-- Christophe Prieur.
I quote the paper : Let there be a graph G=(X,Gamma), where X is the set of graph vertices, and Gamma is a map X into X. A map means that to each element of X, another element of X... and only one (or else it's not a map, it's a relation). If i'm not wrong, this guy solves the problem of the partition into cliques for graphs with only one edge leaving each vertex, which i hope is polynomial !!