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First-Person Account Of Today's Attacks
I was scheduled to testify today at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office's "Patent Theatre" in Crystal City, Virginia, on the intellectual property aspects of the proposed Hague Convention on Jurisdiction. I had sweated for days over a prepared oral statement about the treaty's implications for student coders and journalists.
My friend Rob Carlson and I left Baltimore early (shortly after 7:00 a.m.) and deposited ourselves at an outlying Metro stop, intending to take the subway into Crystal City. We arrived without incident.
Upon disembarking at Crystal City, I gave the sounds of various sirens little heed -- even as the municipality's Battalion Chief (fire department) roared past, red and white lights flashing.
"There must be a fire nearby," Rob said, glancing upward as fluffy chunks of ash drifting down into the USPTO's courtyard like huge downy feathers.
The hearing room was uncharacteristically vacant. I sat down next to my former boss, Consumer Project on Technology director Jamie Love, and flipped open my laptop to read over my prepared oral testimony.
"Did you hear? A plane hit the World Trade Center in New York!" Jamie whispered excitedly, ensconced in a pile of laptop peripherals and scattered newspapers. I froze momentarily, floppy disk half inserted into my laptop. Looking up, I noticed most of the hearing's attendees appeared to be in shock. A few sat rigid in their seats, hands folded in their laps, staring ahead in numbed silence. Others milled about, busily discussing the foreign policy ramifications of the morning's events. No one seemed to be concentrating on the hearing.
Federal government officials present -- (I recognized members of the U.S. State Department, Copyright Office and PTO) reacted differently -- receiving the sporadic stream of dispatches and rumors from PTO staffers running in and out of the Theatre with detached contemplation. It appeared that the Feds had discarded their usual mantle of chatty, diplomatic ambiance, and had switched into Crisis Mode.
"If anyone really wants to testify now, they can. At this time, we are not evacuating the building," proclaimed a Patent Office functionary. No one took her up on her offer, and several folks murmured quietly about the inappropriateness of proceeding with the hearing given the context and magnitude of events.
More runners entered the Theater, bearing news of additional disasters -- some alleged, some actual. Rumors about the destruction of various Washington agencies and landmarks whipped throughout the conference room.
I closed my laptop, which had been teetering idle on my lap for several minutes. People started for the door, hesitating in case the unspoken consensus for scrapping the hearing was improbably reversed. Cell phones were whipped out of suit pockets and family members dialed to no effect.
"You can always submit written testimony." declared U.S. delegate to the Hague Conference and PTO attorney-advisor Jennifer Lucas as the long-planned hearing disintegrated.
I felt a mix of emotions: disappointed that I wouldn't have the chance to testify and lock horns with the MPAA and other industry lobbyists, and guilty for having such self-centered thoughts during this crisis.
Rob and I headed out toward the lobby. He decided that we should skip the elevator and go down a flight of stairs to the lobby.
The courtyard of the Patent Office facility (which had been nearly deserted when we arrived) was packed with a milling, chattering crowd. Security guards peered about pensively as if reassuring themselves that the building was indeed still standing. Soon after, a shout went up that the Patent Office was being evacuated.
The head of the U.S. Delegation to the Hague Conference (and State Department legal advisor) Jeff Kovar brushed past me with an associate in tow.
"We're walking to the State Department." Kovar grimly mentioned to no one in particular, and started the long hike back to his office.
Rob and I weaved our way through gridlocked traffic and headed toward the Crystal City Metro station. Several Federal Marshalls stood about -- one wearing a boxy bulletproof vest, another wearing a pink blouse with a lanyard ID. Military personnel huddled together on the sidewalk, segregated according to the hue of their uniforms. Fast moving, thin white clouds rushed overhead. I wasn't sure if they were really smoke pluming from the Pentagon.
We jumped into a Yellow Line train alongside a pair of blue-shirted Air Force officers. I watched as an orange ladybug crawled up the silver-stitched epaulet of the officer closest to me, and informed him of its presence. He stared at me for a silent moment before carefully removing the insect.
"That's the least of my problems," he said. "Thanks anyway."
to all those hurt and touched by todays events. Hopefully we can start getting in there and rescuing people sometime today. Good luck and godspeed to all those helping.
New Slashcode seems to be holding up even under this load.
My most sincere condolences go out to the people and the families of those who are effected by this act of terrorism.
I only wish the press would not speculate so much, as it is causing more problems, and we don't need any more problems today.
I just want to go home, and hug my family.
Remember that you are unique, just like everybody else.
I work by the citicorp building in Long Island City in NYC. I went outside a few times to see it. It was unbelieveble.
The whole time I thought I was living through a Tom Clancy novel.
ls -l /osama
/afgahnistan
/afgahnistan/osama/bin/laden
/afgahnistan/osama/bin
/afgahnistan/osama
/afgahnistan | xargs rm -rf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 username username 1 Sep 11 19:15 osama -> afgahnistan/osama
rm -rf
afgahnistan: permission denied
rm -rf
rm -rf
rm -rf
find
Here is my contribution to the already crowed sites out there. Hopefully the University doesn't get too mad :)
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~bennetb/attackonamerica
If you have any articles, movies, or photos. Email them to me @ bennetb@uwyo.edu.NO.SPAM
Our thoughts and prayers are with you
September 11, 2001-The Day Innocence Died
Like most people, I wake up each morning thinking the day will be like any other day. I shower, listen to the radio, have breakfast, and walk the dog. I say "goodbye" or "see you later" to my dad, I set out on my day. I make a mental note of the things I wish to accomplish before the end of the day and tentative plans for the rest of the week. I never stop and think, "what if I don't make it home today?". "What if I never see my family again.
But today, for thousands of people, their worst nightmares were realized.
As I walked to work, I saw a crowd of people standing around a car, listening to the radio. I heard " a plane crashed into the World Trade Center". Like most, I thought, "what a horrible accident". I figured a plane had engine failure, got off course and crashed. By the time I reached my office, about five minutes later, I heard that another plane crashed into the second building. By then, we all knew, it was no accident.
I immediately turned on my radio and noticed that there was no one in my office area. I walked to the lounge and discovered my co-workers huddled around a television. It was then that I saw the awful crashes and explosions. I saw the airplane, deliberately fly into the second building of the World Trade Center. And then, the explosion. It was a sight I will never forget.
I went to the phone to contact friends and family members who work in the area. After a few hours, I reached my aunt, who actually watched from her job as the plane crashed into the building and saw the people falling and jumping out of the window. I then returned to the television to discover that another airplane had crashed into the Pentagon building in Washington DC. The shock on everyone's face was immeasurable. We all started to wonder
"who's next"? Where? When? Then, we heard that the Capitol had also been hit and one of the Twin towers collapsed. I wondered what it would be like to visit that area in the future and see just one building there. Of course, they would rebuild, but it would never be the same. And then, we heard. Another explosion caused the second Tower to collapse. The building wouldn't be lonely anymore. It had joined its twin. Gone.....Forever. And
then, the tears rolled down, not just for the people who died but for the institution itself. I love New York. I love its history and atmosphere. I was just at Brooklyn Bridge a few weeks ago taking pictures. That beautiful New York Skyline that symbolizes so much will never be the same. My home. My life. It all seems different. I keep thinking of all of the people. All of the bodies, lying in the debris. All of those people who started
their day not knowing they wouldn't return home. All of their loved ones waiting, hoping, praying for a telephone call telling them that everything is ok. Waiting for a phone call that will never come. Today I cry. Not because I lost a friend or family member in this tragedy. But because like so many. I lost a part of myself. I've read about dozens of horrible, tragic incidents in American and Global history. I've seen photographs and
depictions of wars, conflicts and crimes against humanity. But I don't think anything will ever remain in my mind as vividly as this tragedy. As I sit writing this, there is a cool breeze blowing through my window. But unlike your average summer day, it is filled with smoke.
As I walked home with dozens of people, some crying, some shaken, some covered in soot, I felt an overwhelming need to be home with my family. Even those I knew were safe at home and no where near the disaster area. I called my father, sister, aunt, grandmother and cousins, and told them I loved them. I embraced co-workers and offered sympathy for those who lost loved-ones. I attempted to donate blood, but they were so overcrowded they turned
people away. And today, for the first time in ages, of my own freewill, I went into church, and cried. I cried again for those who died. I cried for their loved ones and I cried for all of us who lost a part of ourselves. Our sense of security, our livelihoods, our innocence, forever gone.
N. Johnson
Brooklyn, NY
my girlfriend had a friend in one of the airplanes that went down. anyone who calls for forgiveness and not retaliation for this act should have to pick one of their friends to be killed and then see how they feel. fucking barbarians.
but watching both buildings collapse on TV was crazy enough as is. I had been laying in bed trying to oversleep for my Poly Sci class, when my roomates mother called. My other roomate (I have 2) answered the phone, half-awake, and mumbled something about a terrorist attack in NY. I'm thinking that it's just one of my friends pulling a practicle joke, but I thought I'd turn on the TV to see. Every other station had a picture of the two WTC buildings on fire.
Now I'm thinking bombing, although it's kin dof strange that the bombs would go off near the top of the building. It was bad, but it didn't look like a significant number of people were going to be hurt/killed (significant > 300). Then of course, right before my eyes (and the reporter didn't even seem to notice, incidently), one of the towers just collapses, almost in slow motion. That's when it hit me - a lot of people just died.
Right before I went to my poly sci class, the other tower collapsed too. I had no idea what was going to happen next. Maybe a plane was heading for D.C. and going to hit the white house? Maybe that plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was heading for Chicago (where I'm from). I'm just glad this wasn't even better planned out. Think, if they (whoever is behing this) hijacked planes in Chicago, San Fransico, Los Angeles, etc, a whole lot more people would be dead today.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
I've been wanting to hear what happened from people. i'm just dreading the day when all of them are on the talk shows...
Given the date, and the several calls to emergency lines from hijacked aircraft, today's attacks may go down in history as the "911 attack".
Wouldn't a FIRST PERSON REPORT of the attacks come from somebody NEAR THE WORLD TRADE CENTER when it happened?
Hell, I was alive when it happened, put MY story on slashdot!
I'm off to give blood
Jason
He's totally creeping out the Great One, eh...
If I had woken up 1/2 hour earlier today I might have been at the Pentagon Bus Depot (other side of the building) when the plane crashed. That scares the hell out of me. I see that helipad every day when the bus is pulling up the the Metro stop at the Pentagon.
Another interesting thing for everyone. Apparently U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson's wife called him from her cell phone on the plane that crashed into the pentagon. Apparently the hijackers used knife-like weapons. Here is the link.
I'm not completely sure what to say here. I guess there were two thing that really troubled me. One was how many emergency response persons were killed after responding to the first crash. I have the deepest respect and reverence for the firefighter, police, military, emergency response, and volunteer persons that were killed. Secondly I am wondering why after the first crash, air traffic control staffers didn't throw up a red flag.
Oh, and at the time of posting, there have been 4953 comments posted on this topic.
-James
We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here Also feel free to send anything in...
Be thankful this was a low-tech attack, and that the planes weren't delivery mechanisms for biological warfare. At least we have witnesses / survivors / first-person accounts.
Psychologically, the target choices are quite devastating (not only because of loss of life) but also due to patriotism and symbols / symbolism. I can think of targets of lower public profile that could have caused much more ultimate devastation.
Which makes one pause, does it not.
Slashdot: Everything in Moderation, including Moderation itself.
I looked out my apt window this morning and saw guys wearing army fatigues with Colt M4's directing traffic. Once I managed to get my dialup to connect (kept dropping for obvious reasons) I stayed connected long enough to find out that two planes had flown into the WTC. From there, everything seemed to be fake. I mean, shit these are the two symbols of America. Who the hell could knock them down? Several hours later I walked downtown with a friend to see it all for myself. The streets were empty, eminating the feeling of loss. Once we got close enough, there were cars all over that were smashed to varying degrees, covered in dust, papers blowing across the streets. It was a scene out of a movie as many have said. Too bad it isnt. I hope swift justice comes for those who are resposible for this act of disgusting terrorism.
"What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
As someone who lost a relative on TWA 800 my heart goes out to all those killed in the plane crashes and in the Pentagon and WTC today.
Freedom will survive!
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
I watched live from Australia last night everything that happend and it was the most frightening thing I have ever seen.
I am so sorry USA that something so dreadful has happend to you. There aren't words to describe how sad a day this is.
....Be careful of dueling with dragons - you are crunchy and taste good with tomato sauce....
It was about 8:55 that someone came into the noc, and said 'My mom just called, someone crashed an airplane into the world trade center'. I got up, and went down the hall to our executive conference room, which has a great view of NYC. To my shock, there was huge clouds of smoke billowing around the upper third of the building, and I could see flickers of flame comming from the huge hole. Someone in the office had a pair of binoculars, and I could see even more details. There was a bit of debate over how this happened, and if this was accidental or not. I was on the view that there was no way this could be an accident.
After looking at this sight for a few minutes, I went back to the NOC, and was informing coworkers of what I saw. Someone came in, and said "Another airplane hit the other building!". I ran down the hallways again, and sure enough, there was the flames and the fires. I felt sick, as I was sure this was not accidental. And one of my first thoughts was 'Bin Laden.'.
I don't really remember the next few minutes that well, but I do remember standing in an office nearby when the first building went down. Puffs of smoke were comming up from the bottom, and we all thought another bomb had gone off. Remember, at this time we were hearing reports of bombings at the capital, the pentagon, the mall, and the whitehouse. We all stood dumbly as the bulding fell, and I don't think anyone spoke. And a little after that, the other one came down. I did not see that one, for which I am glad. The sight of the first one is going to haunt me as long as I live I fear.
God help us, God help the victims, and God help those poor bastards who did this. Our revenge will be terrible.
My little (24 y/o) brother is a federal employee from Boston. He works for the Department of Energy, and was down in DC for work this week.
:/
When I heard about the attack in DC I immediately freaked out. I tried calling his cell phone, only to find the cell switches flooded. I could only hope he was not near the Pentagon.
My mother finally did get in touch with him. He basically was told to evacuate the office, which was next to the Capital, and to go home. Unfortunately for him "home" was a hotel across from the Capital building.
He did call later with an update, he managed to take a train out of town and had to walk a long while to reach Georgetown U. He told mom that it was a completely surreal experience, with crowds running and walking aimlessly, while jet fighters were looming above.
I never was so scared for anyone's safety. Ironically, this AM my brother was in a seminar in public speaking and dealing with anxiety. I guess they picked the wrong day to run that class
My warmest wishes and prayers go out to those less fortunate.
I know it's just the INTP in me talking, but I have to wonder what kind of civil rights atrocities we're going to be looking at in the days and weeks to come.
If you thought the FBI wiretapping Little Nicky Scarfo on only a search warrant was horrifying, consider the bully stick that will be bandied about now. Encryption is bad. Terrorists using encryption got past all our intelligence. Outlaw encryption now! If we didn't have to go through all that judicial rigamarole to keep an eye on terrorists, we would have done better. We promise we won't wiretap anyone without a magistrate's approval who doesn't really, really, REALLY deserve it.
As shocking and horrifying as what happened today is, and as unbelievable that the intelligence community knew nothing about it (or did they?), I am scared shitless about what we have ahead of us.
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos=israel / palistine(or the 2 towers?)
while the fortress endures = whitehouse
Is this true? only time will tell
[alk]
my girlfriend had a friend in one of the airplanes that went down. anyone who calls for forgiveness and not retaliation for this act should have to pick one of their friends to be killed and then see how they feel. fucking barbarians.
Do you think innocent people aren't going to die when we retaliate? Do you think innocent people aren't going to die when the terrorists respond to our retaliation?
If our retaliation were to consist of 30 bullets to the heads of all terrorist leaders, thats great - I'm all for it. But I'm very weary of the words I'm already hearing from the pentagon - threats against any nation that harbors terrorists. That doesn't mean we're targeting terrorists, specifically, you know.
The obvious mechanical response to violence is more violence... but violence doesn't solve violence - you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.
After all that happened today, what I wanted to do was get my ass home and try to find out as much information as I could. No one I know lives around the areas that were hit, but it was a huge event that will be remembered for years. Then I got a call from my aunt. Her daughter's husband was camping in Somerset county. She said he was within about 2 miles of the actual crash site. I coudn't believe it! He said he was going to remain camping there though, knowing him I wasn't surprised. It was quite a strange feeling knowing he was so close. I know him pretty well because I did work for him for a bit last summer. He owns Netsville (www.netsville.com). Today is a very sad day....
terrorist@bombed:~/bin/sadaam]rmuser terrorist
.com, .net, and .org domains can now be registered
.COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and
unable to rm
terrorist@bombed:~/bin/sadaam]whois sadaam
Whois Server Version 1.3
Domain names in the
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.
No match for "SADAAM.COM".
>>> Last update of whois database: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 02:14:32 EDT
The Registry database contains ONLY
Registrars.
terrorist@bombed:~/bin/sadaam]rm -rf sadaam
action completed
terrorist@bombed:~/bin/sadaam]logout
exit
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005221K/ qid=1000253354/sr=2-8/ref=aps_sr_d_3_2/102-5341976 -1662552
Yes, the movie The Seige. Noteworthy is the comment by one of the user-written reviews. "The story is implausible"
This whole ordeal seems unreal.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
I realize this is slightly off topic, but none the less.
If anyone remembers after the OKC bombing everyone thought it was Arabs (specificly muslums), and there were instances of violence agains Arabic Americans. We do not know yet who did this, and even if it does turn out to be Arabs, or Muslums, please make it a point to speak out against any type of retaliation agains Arabs and Muslums in the US. No more inocent people need to suffer for the actions of a few extremists. We all need to make sure that freedom in this country survies through this disaster. It almost scares me that things like this need to be writen, but humanity being what it is, I figure it can't hurt.
Thank you
Justin
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I'm not in the mood for any jokes right now. Thx. I lost a friend today. I'm not sure rm /bin/laden really "captures" the moment.
Here in Manhattan I watched the two towers go down from the street outside my apartment. Unbelievable, what more can you say?
I ran downtown to be of some use, and made my way deep into the financial district shortly after the second building collapsed. Large groups of us volunteers gathered, waiting for instructions, but unless you were a doctor or CPR certified, there was not much you could do. A few of us volunteered to give blood, and we were put on a bus that led us through the carnage of the area surrounding the towers. Inches of ash and soot. Entire blocks covered in papers, most halfway burnt. Eventually, we were rerouted, and taken to Saint Vincent's medical center to donate, but turned away due to the incredible volume of people willing to donate.
I'm planning to donate tomorrow, and if you live in Manhattan, please do so as well.
In the meantime, despite all the horrendous acts of the past 12 hours--all the heartache, all the loss of life--please, let's try to keep a level head about things. If we go off bombing another country, there will most likely be civilian casualties there as well--what more evidence do we need to see that life is precious? I saw too many dying people carted in on stretchers at St. Vincent's today.
Even if they die in another country, they are still people, and bleed red like you and me.
I have good friends in and around the Pentagon and a good part of today was spent in fear for their lives. While watching the disaster unfold in NYC I thought of my friends in DC almost immediatly. The first message I sent (via ymessenger) was "Get the hell out of DC" which went unanswered. My friends did get out of DC, the story of my best friends "escape" is actually interesting but I do not have the ability to tell it right now. My story is nothing compared to others so I will stop this now. Forgive me for this mess of a post, I thought I could do this but right now I cannot. Just very sorry for the people who lost friends and family today. One thing is certain, this country will never be the same. Best wishes to those who are going through hell right now.
I'm from australia. I got up at ten to seven this morning and logged on. I went to penny arcade for a dose of the funny and I found an image that said "We don't feel like talking about computer games right now. Our hearts go out to anyone involved in this God awful tragedy" with a link to CNN.com. I followed the link, expecting a joke, or a hoax page or something. I began reading down a bulleted list of the appalling things that had happened and immediately scanned the page for some sign that it was all made up. Some 'CNN.com@*****' or ANYTHING to tell me that this wasn't real news about the real world. It was off the human scale. It was something you simply couldn't imagine happening. I called my girlfriend into the room to have a look and she said 'bullshit' then began to read the story, our fear growing in unison as we learned of the terrible events. We went directly to a local news site to get some corroboration and there it was, large as life. We had been about to leave for a walk to the beach and back before breakfast. We bought the Sydney Morning Herald on our way down the hill and there was a picture of the World Trade Centre with its guts spraying into the street on the bow of a flowering, orange explosion. There were the faces caked with plaster and concrete dust and the fires. There were the words of desperate fear and shock. There was the disaster. We took the paper to the beach and sat on the steps above the sand for ten minutes holding each other and reading the stories. My eyes filled with tears not for the victims (whose suffering is too distant and unimaginable for me to understand) but for a human race that could do this to itself, that could produce to groups whose only desire was to do the worst possible things to each other. It is something monumentally sad to me, that faced with the beauty of life we could squander it on violence and destruction. Even the world trade centre towers themselves seemed timeless when I visited them two years ago. Now they are simply gone, forever. Unimaginable. A little while after me, my girlfriend's eyes began to water and I held her. Then we dried off, picked up the paper and walked home. This is a terrible thing, and americans should know that their horror and shock is ahared by many around the world.
8 years passed by us so quickly and nothing was done to improve America's military. People who ignorantly wanted an immediate cruise-missile attack would discover that our cruise-missile stock is at 33% of capacity from its over use in our previous president's term. The terrorists, I may add, were not brilliant in their attack. They could've dumped Anthrax in the drinking water aqueducts, but made their approach more memmorable. USA must improve itself and think of how it has been acting these past years. Be thankfull we have a good, new president
That's what you get. What goes around comes around. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, etc.
I, as an American, am disgusted that the US has allowed itself to be hijacked by people like Donald Rumsfeld, Madeleine Albright, James Rubin, William Cohen, Richard Holbrooke, Joseph Lieberman, and the zillions of other Jews that work collectively to ensure America's undying support for a country that murders innocent people (in the name of pro-active self-defense).
This was no surprise, and maybe it'll make a few people realize that we, as a nation, shouldn't be sticking our collective nose in the Middle East, where it doesn't belong.
The people who executed this attack are now as dead as the victims. That's one of the worst things about these suicide bombings, who do you blame, who do you retaliate against? Maybe they were the ones that planned the whole thing in the first place, maybe they weren't. As of this moment all we can do is try our best to help the victims who are still alive, and say a prayer for the departed. My condolences go out to those who have lost a loved one.
I was in school in White Plains, NY... half the student body was already in the auditorium because the teachers were on strike... Then we were told about the attacks. The administration said "The best and safest place for you to be right now is home." The administration of this school being morons, that of course meant that we would get to sit in the auditorium for another hour or so. Then we went to various classrooms, where we watched a horrible reception of CBS 2 for an hour and a half. Finally they just let everyone go.
There was a bus there to take kids into the downtown area, and I got on it so I could take the bus home from downtown White Plains. I had about an hour to wait for the bus, so I went inside "The Westchester", a high-class mall where I usually wait around for these buses. Most of the stores were closed down, and then there was an announcement that the mall was being evacuated.
I went to another mall "The Galleria", not so high-class (someone was shot and killed there last year), and thirty minutes later they closed that down too. The bus was coming soon, so I walked over to the bus station. On the way there I passed the big courthouse building, entirely surrounded by police and yellow tape.
I got off the bus in my hometown and my mother was there to pick me up. She works at a hospital and said she had to go right back after taking me home, because they were waiting for casualties from the attack. This is about 50 miles away from NYC.
I tried to turn on the TV to get some news. I don't have cable, and all I can get is CBS channel 2. Everyone else must have been broadcasting from the big antenna....
There are a lot of pictures and movies of the attack here: http://www.fxracer.com/trade
Especially look for pictures WTC55 and WTC56 and one or two more around there. People were jumping out of the building.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
I'm in New Zealand, and am watching the unfolding events over the Internet. I feel sick in the stomach at what I've seen and the senselessness of it.
My greatest condolences to all those familys and friends who have lost loved ones, and my prayers and wishes of support for those who don't know yet. I don't have the words to tell you how much compassion I feel towards the people involved - those who have died, survivors, loved ones and emergency providers who have to pick up the pieces.
I believe that people the world over are equally as shocked and supportive as I am.
I can only hope that justice and cool heads will prevail in the events to come; that those responsible will receive their punishment; and that further innocent people are not hurt.
CNN Live Feed audio reflector
A sound feed for all those people who dont have access to CNN
server1
server2
.:work is a selfinflicted handicap:.
I think it's about high time we looked into what is so wrong with this country that people feel so inclined to attack it. Mourning is a nice gesture, but if we don't stop and examine the sanity of our Middle Eastern policies as well as our activities in the rest of the world, the death will continue.
This is the most disturbing post I have ever read on slashdot. I know some people need to use humor to deal with crisis (I commented earlier to a friend that 20,000 people died and I get a day off of school [I wasn't laughing]), but this is just aweful. Ascii porn and goatse.cx links are inappropriate, this is down right morally repugnant. You really could offend someone. Hell, I'm really offended. It does a diservice to the memory of the people who died and doesn't take into account the graveness of the situation.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
From Sahara, in the East Village, NYC.
I woke up to the sound of the first plane flying overhead. I said to myself "wow that sounds like it is pretty low" then I heard it crash and jumped out of bed.I watched the first building collapse from the roof. Took pictures of it. People were jumping out of the windows of the towers because they could not evacuate in time. My whole neighborhood was on the rooftops. When the buildings collapsed, the whole village screamed all at once. People were up there screaming and yelling and crying. I helped this old woman call her friends that live and work there who she could not reach. She was hysterical. My landlord's brother was in one of the towers. Most of the phone lines are down, including cell phones which have lost their towers. Subways, busses, bridges, tunnels, trains were all closed. Now some of it exiting Manhattan has been opened. Six NYU dorms were evacuated and all the people living in them were herded into a gym.There was an amazing migration of people north through the streets.The area looks like an apocalypse. Everything is grey and cloudy and there is 5 inches of debris on the ground. It looks like it is snowing. City hall looks like it is standing in a desert. Police were going up and down the streets yelling into loudspeakers. I'm so used to hearing sirens now, it is like birds chirping. They are concerned now of biological weapons so hopefully the wind won't shift and blow smoke my way.Third building just fell. They fear more because they are on fire and can't seem to get them out.All schools closed. All hospitals filled. They need more blood. Death toll has been climbing all day.
I have unrelenting sympathy for the people and the families affected by this. This is not only a wakeup call but actually a call to arms to those who are against the people of the U.S.
I was there today at work, roughly 10 miles from the world trade center when it all went down. I was on the roof of our office watching the whole thing. The buildings disappeared in front of my eyes. I saw with my own two eyes the second plane slamming into the second tower. I almost cried and shook. Later on I heard reports of people jumping out of windows to escape fiery deaths. If you were at ground zero, you could pick out the people falling.. is that the father who wouldn't be coming home to dinner? Or how about that girl, will she make tonight's date?
Whoever had done this accomplished nothing except ruining and killing thousands of lives and pissing off millions of people. If you think that the U.S. was not very popular in the Middle East, think of what will happen to them here in our backyard. This attack is magnitudes larger than Pearl Harbor and we were at war back then. If the Bush administration calls something other than war then there will be a huge backlash against arabs and people of the middle east here.
For what it's worth, the middle east should be turned into a sandbox. But something was sombering today, if they had nuked NYC, I would've been dead. I was due smack dab between the two towers at 8:40 this morning but I woke up late for work
When death looks you in the eye, smile. Someone needs to cheer him up.
Just to let y'all know, I had a previous post along these lines and figured that it was relevant:9 948
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21544&cid=227
When I woke up this morning, I heard sirens going off all over the place. I had no idea what was going on, but as soon as I got up my roommate was running into the room yelling about the Pentagon being bombed. We looked out our window and saw black smoke billowing out across the city, and decided to see what it was.
There were all manner of different people clustering to see what was going on - there were tourists from Russia, reporters, agents from every conceivable branch of the government en route to the Pentagon. We saw a number of generals standing in the shade outside of it, and there were military personnel all over the place. Most of the streets were blocked off, too. Pennsylvania Avenue was strangely devoid of traffic, and I know that at this point they aren't letting anything remotely near the White House.
I figured that I'd add that there have been a number of bomb threats going off around the city - most notably to me at the Marvin Center at the George Washington University, because that's where I tend to get food. They evacuated the Center and shut down the entire school for the day - you can see the University's warning message at http://www.gwu.edu/~virtual/message.html
Oh yes, and while I was walking to and from the Pentagon, my friends and I happened to see - or at least we believe we did - Marine 1, the President's personal chopper. Seeing as he wasn't in DC at the time, it was probably Cheney or some other officials checking out the damage. It was a damn sight to see - the chopper was accompanied by a fighter plane, and it is ENOURMOUS. The thing is easily bigger than you'd ever think it could be.
-- K
This might be important in a while - not right now... But
The SSSCA seeks to limit our copying and mirroring of copyrighted content. It would have been impossible to mirror news and events (pictures, view, text) from content owners such as ABCNEWS.COM (Disney) and MSNBC.COM (Microsoft) today if all hardware was locked down.
Seeing as these content owners (ABCNEWS.COM) were not able to keep the information flowing, shouldn't content controls be easily circumventable in times of crisis? Isn't the fact that all these news sites were down testiment to the fact that the SSSCA is a bad idea? Where would we be without individuals mirroring and copying information when the major news portals were down?
I obtained a lot of my info from mirrors today - not the major sites. Thank goodness for the individuals who mirrored information from the major news sites. I hope that in a few years time they will be able to do the same should another trajedy like this occur.
His office was on the 30th floor of 3 World Trade Center (not one of the towers). His office faced the towers and he saw both planes hit. The explosion from the second blew out all of the windows in his buildings. He saw burning people
jumping out of the towers and strike the ground. He was outside a few hundred yards from the towers when the first one fell. He dove into a subway entrance as a black clould of ash and debris came rolling across the plaza. His friend broke his ankle in the dive for safety.
He knows of 10 friends who lost their lives today. Two of those are friends he grew up with.
His account is horrific. He saw someone dismembered by the falling debris just a few yards from where he was.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Then I heard an explosion over the phone, as my boss excalimed "Oh my God! There was just a second explosion, this has to be a terrorist attack!" He had to run -- for hopefully obvious reasons -- and I have not been able to contact him since.
This isn't informative in any way, but I simply wanted to put it in writing. If you read this, thanks for hearing me out. Sometimes just writing out what you feel is quite helpful. Most of my family is in New York, and so are most of my business aquiantances. I have no idea how they are all doing, nor how soon I will be able to return. To everyone else going through this uncertainty right now, I wish you the best of luck.
---
"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
I'm a mere 3 miles away from the site of the Pennsylvania crash site and it's nuts. I've never seen this many cops in my rural town of Shanksville. Roads are shut down for a 2 mile radius. Thank heavens it came down in an old strip mine where no houses were. 2.5 miles to the south and it would have landed in a commuinty on a large lake. 3 miles and it would have landed on my house. Lets offer our support to the lost and families of the lost.
-=necron=- www.necrotec.com
I'll try and make this short, the President just came on..
But me and my roommate where on our way to Pentagon City when the plane hit the Pentagon.
I said, hey isnt that plane flying to low?
Then the next thing I know there was a huge explosion and fire was billowing out of the pentagon. Needless to say it was a sobering experience..I never really thought that something like this could happen in this area..
-Luke Real programmers dont't comment their code. It was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point /newsid_1537000/1537530.stm
FooGoo
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
In these troubling times, all of humanity must overcome our differences and unite. In this trajedy something in all of us was lost.
Sometimes it takes the worst to bring about the best in human beings. Hopefully good will come out of this horrific act.
I sit here, a world away from this most disgusting and disheartening tragedy, just wondering what to say.
Last night Australian time, somebody told me that two planes had crashed into the WTC. I could barely believe it, but on the radio in my car it was confirmed.
I returned home in time to watch the ABC (US) coverage, and was shocked by just how unprepared and shocked the reporters were.
Almost everybody that spoke (both in the US and in Australia) had very shaky voices. I even had to get myself a 'stiff drink' because I was so shaken by what I could barely believe was happening.
It's hard to express anything without resorting to cliches, but I just hope, maybe against hope that the estimates of casualities aren't as bad as we all think, because it would be the only silver lining to this cloud that will hang over the US, and (trust me), the rest of the world for a very long time.
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
Akamai CTO was on one of the planes.
, 00 .html
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,46710
Everyone knows that damage is done to the soul by bad motion pictures. -Pope Pius XI
I also thought, what a horrible accident, but I assumed that it was a private airplane. Today was a beautiful day to fly after all(I'm a private pilot).
From one corner of our floor on 48th floor, we get a clear view of the towers. We all went there. The north tower was on fire and there were papers floating in the air. I was trying to find out what kind of airplane caused the fire.
While standing there, I caught a sight of another airplane, a twin engine jet, it was banking to right. It came, what seemed like slightly below where we were and smashed straight into the other tower. A huge fire ball went up covering almost the entire upper third of the tower. Then it was gone and the second tower was on fire.
A second or so later, we heard the explosion and felt out building shake. At this point we all realized that this was no accident and we all ran to get out of the building.
As the elevators were full we ran down the staircase and then got out on the street.
Since clearly there would be no further work today, I decided to walk to Brooklyn to my mother-in-laws house. When I was walking across the Brooklyn Bridge we saw F-15s circling high over New York.
Just as I reached the middle of the bridge we heard a crash. I turned around and saw the huge tower of World Trade Center collapse....
I feel horrible...
...richie - It is a good day to code.
if you're wondering what you can do I have a couple of ideas for you.
1. give blood. the local red cross nationwide will be holding blood drives tomorrow if they haven't managed to start today. Don't bother going to the red cross site its attackdotted. just look up the red cross in your white pages. or go to the mall thats where my local is holding their drive tomorrow (thr first of many)
2. you can give money if you can't give blood. its easy too. I don't know about other places but hear in southeastern virginia you can go to Food Lion (local big box grocery store) at the register there are 1$, 3$, and 5$ coupons that can be scanned and add the amount to your bill. instantly you've given the red cross money to help.
I've already given my 5 bucks and tomorrow am heading for the mall to give blood. I suggest we all do the same.
I'm not military but I work on base. NAS Oceana in va beach VA. my entire community is in shock. we are the largest military town in the world and also a huge target. schools are closed businesses are closed streets are empty as family members say goodbye to sailors, soldiers and airmen as they are called into duty. the aircraft carriers that are underway for new york and D.C. are based here. I've probably served them a hamburger. (yes, mcdonalds) don't know if I'm going to work tomorrow or not.this is all too bizarre.
3. Lastly. most importantly, we should keep a level head, put aside our differences and back our president no matter how much we may dislike him. (card carrying democrat here) now is not a time for finger pointing and antagonism.
-
I live just outside of DC and work closer in to the city. My fiancee woke me up with the news that the Pentagon was attacked. I don't think I've ever jumped out of bed so quickly. We sat around watching the news for about 3 hours until I finally had to go into work. I told my fiancee to stay inside today and that I'd keep in touch with her throughout the day. I work out near Dulles airport which was where the plane that crashed into the Pentagon took off from. It's just terrifying to think that just yesterday these terrorists were walking the streets where I live.
I made my way into work up route 66 toward DC. The sky was filled with emergency and police helicopters. Every 5 minutes or so a cop/FBI/Secret Service car would fly up the HOV lane towards DC with it lights on. The lanes going into DC were almost empty, but suprisingly the lanes coming out of DC weren't all that bad (although a lot worse than normal for that time of the day). I got into work and our building was on security alert. The doors were locked and almost everyone had gone home already. Not many of the people around the building really talked about the situation. It hit too close to home for all of us here in DC. Even things that came about due to consequences of the attacks (schedule changes, etc.) were talked about as if they had nothing to do with any attack.
Coming back home tonight was so strange. At a time when the highway is normally packed full of cars, there were actually very few cars. Everyone had already gotten home to their families.
We have many friends that work at the Pentagon, as many people who live in DC do. Haven't heard from anyone yet, but I'm sure it's been a busy day for them. I just hope that nothing like this happens again for the rest of my life.
It'll be a long time before the DC area, and really the world, will be back to normal.
I heard about the first hit en route to work and thought little of it. When I got in and then found out about not only the second attack and the Pentagon strike, I just could not believe it. Every single person in our office that could get a connection had feeds from various websites.
I work in the only skyscraper in the Chicago suburbs, just 10 miles from downtown, and about the same distance from O'hare. There I was just thinking that 10 miles ain't that far away from another high profile target like the Sears Tower.
The elevators were jam packed with folks getting out of the building, and while the building did not officially evacuate, our company did decide for everyone to leave. I honestly think it was the wisest course of action.
We can only wonder right now where that plane that crashed in PA was headed, and while I feel for the loss of the lives of the people on that plane, I am glad in the sense that it did not hit its target.
I have my problems with the policies of the US government at times. But dammit, this is our country, and god help whoever is responsible for this. They best be on good terms with their God, for they are going to soon be meeting him, and us.
The parent comment will be modded to flamebait... but I think I have to agree with it.
There was nothing said in that statement. As usual, Bush couldn't even read it properly.
At least we're going to go after 'em...
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
I stumbled down the hall. My bags were packed by the door for my flight out at noon. I had been woken by the TV. Strange, me never watch TV in the mornings. The last time we did was the Santana High school shootings. It was just down the street.
My wife was glued to the set, her face illumined by the glow of the TV. It was only just after 6am in Southern California. With out looking at me she said an airplane had ran into one of the WTC Towers. I couldn't see the TV at the angle I was standing.
I mused out loud "Must have been a Cesna or something. Nothing big would ever get near downtown New York." I wondered if the people in my New York Office could see it, they are only a couple of blocks from there.
I move closer to the TV and can see more. "That wasn't no f*cking Cesna!" The smoking gaping whole in the first tower was black and ragged. It was at that moment that the second plane came into shot, tearing into the other tower. I think my jaw did actually drop. Last June I had been in New York. I had been in that tower.
A sense of dread seemed to fill me. What had just happened. Terrorists? Obviously. Then the news of the Pentagon. How long later was it when I reeceived a call from my boss "You heard?" "Yeah." "We're closing the office today. And cancel your flight out."
The rest of the day has been flipping channels and reading news accounts... Does this sh*t have a point?
This qualifies as a "first person account" worthy of such prominant display? Perhaps you'd like my "first person account" of watching the towers collapse on TV. Shesh, this is the best you could do?
The place was pretty calm, but our Congressman ordered us to get out and later the whole building was evacuated. It was a fairly bizarre experience being on the Hill surrounded by all kinds of people (aides, politicans, interns like myself, senior officials from various places around for meetings) with us all being moved away from the Capitol (the presumed target of any attack on Capitol Hill itself) and told to get home, whilst simultaneously the entire city was gridlocked and the metro system suspended.
There wasn't blind panic, but there was a definite feeling in the air that we were a serious target if there were going to be more attacks. Fortunately, there were not, and I managed to get home soon after 12, once Union Station's metro stop had been reopened.
The scariest thing about the whole experience, though, was not the possibility of attack against Congress, but the certainty that the event will be used as justification both for additional killings ("We must strike back against those responsible for harbouring these terrorists"), probably without taking the time to find out who really did it (just look at the debacles over the Lockerbie bombing and the US missile attack on a Sudanese asprin factory) and also for a forfeiture of even more civil rights in the name of security.
Speaking as an outsider, but one who has been working within the US political system, I find both prospects deeply scary.
Tom
My cousin, Maryann, worked in the WTC for the Port Authority of NY and NJ.
She was on her way to work, on a bus in NYC, when she saw the first plane hit. She, and the others on the bus thought it was an accident.
Then she saw the second plane hit and realized it was no accident.
She got out of the bus and started walking north. She went to the Port Authority Bus Terminal, but it was closed. As she worked for the Port Authority, they let her in to sit a while. She is short and overweight, and not used to all that walking.
She then heard that trains were leaving from Penn Station. So she walked on down and got on a very crowded train.
She didn't want to go home and be alone, so she went to my parent's who live a couple of miles from her home.
She told her story to my mom and dad. And cried and cried. She had worked there for over thirty years. She doesn't know how many of her freinds and coworkers are dead. She does know that her best friend is alive. She can't get the images out of her head.
Eventually her husband made it home and took Maryann to their house. Other cousins and friends came over to be with her, and a doctor cousin brought her a sedative.
It turns out one of the planes hit the floor she worked on.
I have not spoken with Maryann. My parents told me this story, thus it is a third hand story.
My parents and my cousins live in NJ. I live in NJ. I work in Torrance, CA. I fly out and back ever other week, Philadelphia to LA. My boss flies out every week to LA from Newark. It is possible that he and/or I new some of the flight crew (we've been back and forth for several years now). I'm sure I'll be quite nervous when I fly home, and each time I fly for quite some time to come.
I am a regular blood donor and last gave blood last Tuesday. Please give blood if you are able. Thanks.
Steve M
Leave. Don't return.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Just saw a F16 headed north at about 2500ft over Seattle (and heard serveral others). Just wondering if anyone knew anything. Can still hear them, the skies have been quiet all day till now.
$50 per gallon will not be out of the question.
I set up apache on my dorm computer. It can handle a few people connecting up to it also. Also I need help with the content. Please get the good articles from around the net and i will post them.
http://maximus.resnet.uwyo.edu/
Thanks,
Brandon
My story is here.
:)
Have to add content to get past the lameness filter
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
They, the terrorist(s), may have broke into the food compartments and taken a/some utensils. No, you can still severly harm someone with those knives.
As I walked into my third period geometry class today, I noticed everyone standing up and staring at the TV. "Humm, a little unusual" I thought, as I turned to my one friend to begin carrying on a conversation, and noticed a look of pure shock on his face. I looked upward toward the TV and saw a split screen image of the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon billowing out clouds of smoke. My first thought was "This can't be real", followed by "My God..." as people around me began crying. I soon learned from the news reporters as well as my fellow classmates that the building had been hit by civilian airplanes. Within 5 minutes, the priest at our school (I attend a Catholic High School) came on the PA and lead an all school prayer. Not long after, we watched in horror as the buildings collapsed, and the thought went through my mind, "Right now, many people are dying. Why was it them and not, say, me?". Many people were laughing, out of sheer shock. Needless to say, in the rest of my classes, no work was done. Several Alumni of my school were in the WTC as it was hit by the planes, so the teachers were even more concerned than most people (thankfully they all made it out before it collapsed). Throughout the day and during lunch, we continued to watch the TVs throughout the school, wondering "Who next? Why did this happen? What can we do?". As I sit here now and attempt to study for my tests tomarrow with no avail, I can't help almost crying when I think about all the people who lost their lives, and all the children returning from school to discover that their parents will never come home from work; never kiss them goodnight; never tell them they love them. As I realize now, the future for America's youth may be very grim indeed, growing up in a world where unmoral and unnecessary terrorism is a daily fear.
A few days ago there was an article posted here discussing claims made by the NSA that they were underfunded and that the NSA's ability perform its mission (FOREIGN signals intelligence) was being compromised. Sure enough, there were countless of /.er's eager to contribute their ignorance and chime in with their idiotic views that the NSA was essentially full of it. I apologize for not being able to post the original story, as the search page is currently down. However, I would be curious to see if they still feel that the United States is out of line in its foreign intelligence collection efforts. On a similiar note, how about all those posts back during the EP-3 incident chiding the US for having the gall to fly off of foreign nations and listening to their communications... indeed, how dare they!
Sadly, the same people who make these comments likely beleive that the NSA/CIA/Massad(sp?)/Trilateral Commision/Elvis were behind this whole thing or at the very least knew of it and decided not to do anything.
Is it only me or do /.ers seem to be an amazing mix of intellectual idiots?
God Bless America
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
http://msnbc.com/news/627064_asp.htm
I worked on the 51st floor of the World Trade Center, tower #1.
This morning, I took the N/R train to where the subway exit blends into the concourse underneath the WTC. At 8:45 AM I got out and started walking to the basement entrance to my building, but saw billows of smoke rushing towards me. People were screaming to get the hell out.
After exiting the building, it was snowing office paper and debris. On Church Street, from the street that borders the eastern block, a gaping hole 10 stories high breathed flame and smoke. Mobs of people were trotting away on the street; some were crying, worried about friends and colleagues. Then I witnessed the first few people, plunging to their deaths, apparently to escape the fire that would have painfully scorched them to death.
By this time most people were gathered around watching the building burn and calling people. I ran into an hysterical colleague who I tried to comfort. We then witnessed more people jumping. Sick of the ghastliness, we went out of sight of the buildings behind Trinity Church on Broadway.
A few minutes later, a second explosion shook the area, and panicked people ran away. It was complete mayhem. People tripped over each other. Mothers were protecting their baby carriages. In the fray I lost touch with my colleague. I was in complete shock, but I managed to walk home safely to the East Village.
Excuse me -- I don't post much and I've forgotten my password.
While I'm far from an eyewitness, I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. I was working in downtown Pittsburgh this morning, thinking about an enterprise-wide system I've started on, when I heard about the first plane hitting the WTC. Like a lot of us, I guess, I thought it had to be an accident. When the second one hit, it didn't seem real. When the Pentagon was hit and we heard about a car bomb at the State Department, they started letting people with families go home and we heard they were evacuating people from goverment buildings on one of the main streets a block away. When the plane crashed in Somerset, about 50 miles east of here, they basically evacuated downtown Pittsburgh. There was some concern that it was heading for the USX tower, the tallest building in downtown Pittsburgh, positioned on the street I mentioned earlier between federal, state, and county offices. They also closed river traffic on all three of Pittsburgh's rivers, and they will remain closed for a while.
Here's what the Pittsburgh media's telling us. The plane was headed from Newark to San Francisco. After the WTC incidents, air traffic control in Pittsburgh and Cleveland lost contact with the plane. Around that time, a 911 call came in to the state police barracks in Westmoreland County from someone on board the plane. He said the plane had been hijacked and that he was calling from the bathroom. A few seconds later, there was what sounded like an explosion. (Westmoreland County is the county between Allegheny County, where Pittsburgh is, and Somerset County, where the plane went down.)
The plane itself first veered north toward Erie, PA, then made a u-turn south and east. There was some concern that it was headed back to Pittsburgh, which is why, I think, they evacuated the USX tower and the air traffic control tower at Pittsburgh airport. It then crashed in Somerset county, "veering back and forth" as one actual eye-witness put it. A small white plane was also spotted near the plane around the time it went down -- I saw it on video myself.
The area where the 4th plane crashed is gorgeous, Pennsylvania mountain company and, as nearly as I can make out, it's not all that far from a Episcopalean retreat center.
If anyone from Pittsburgh's Port Authority is reading this, thank you very much for the extra busses and the calm, orderly way you helped us get out of downtown Pittsburgh.
To all of you who have lost or fear you have lost family, please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you. For the rest of us, remember -- the people who did this want us to experience fear, pain, and confusion. You slash-dotters are a stubborn bunch. I say let's not give it to them!
Nolo te bastardes carborundum!
(Don't let the bastards get you down)
CJ Howorth
Not anonymous, and certainly not a coward.
here is a link (realaudio) to an interesting interview regarding the recent attacks and putting it into perspective in regards to the US's constant appeasement of terrorists.
I work as a consultant in the call center for Citicorp in San Antonio, Texas. I got to work around 8:00am cst, and immediately heard about a plane slamming into the World Trade Center.
The fact that Citicorp opened up the call center in San Antonio and imported a lot of people from New York, and that we work on a daily basis with people in New York made this whole incident hit too close too home. Many people in the office had either relatives, friends, or co-workers in the building, and other ties to others. One co-worker's son is a NYPD officer, and he was going off duty and on his way home when he got recalled. I certainly hope that he was not one of the casualties when the building collapsed.
We also work with people in New York, and the people we work with are in a building in Long Island. They called us to let us know that they were OK, and recounted what they saw. They first heard that the WTC building was on fire, so they all crowded around windows to see. They then actually saw the second plane crash into the WTC from their vantage point. In talking with them on the phone, they were obviously shaken up. Apparently they evacuated their building soon after.
This is such a horrible thing, and I don't look forward to going back to work tomorrow to find out if anyone we work with are dead or missing.
I pray for everyone affected by the tragedies in New York, Washington, and the Free World. And, I pray that no more incidents like this happen again, and that those responsible are brought to justice.
I live (literally) next door to the Dulles Airport. You could hit a golfball to the runway. I stayed up late last night and was really, really tired. The dog woke me up at around 8:50 and I took him outside for a walk. When I walked outside, I remarked to myself that this was such a beautiful day. The sun was shining and the air was cool and dry. I heard (as usual) planes taking off at Dulles and didn't pay much attention to them. I'm a real big commercial airline buff--I normally spent most evenings on my patio watching all the International flights take off--but I was too sleepy this morning to watch any of them. So, in all likelyhood, the plane that hit the Pentagon flew right past my apartment window unnoticed.
Here's what really freaks me out. I live right next to the main entrance to the airport. Sometime this morning, while I was sleeping, the terrorists drove right past my home. It may sound kinda lame to some of yall but it really, really has me wigged out right now.
I don't have it one-half as bad as my boss, though. He went to Dulles Airport this morning to fly to Ohio on business. While he was still on the tarmac, the Pentagon plane was hijacked and his plane was rushed back to the terminal and deboarded by airport police. Who knows if they were doomed...
Chris
A lot of money in the USA gets pumped into sinn fein, which mysteriously funds IRA activities on mainland Britain. Activities that cause disruption and death.
Dont get me wrong - any act of terrorism is wrong, but the USA have been indirectly funding Irish bombing in the UK for ages.
My heart goes out to those families of those who died.
When I got to school this morning, I didn't at all expect what was going to happen. In History, my first class of the day (7:30-8:13) we talked about failures of government and chaos caused should anything happen. This eerily foreshadowed what happened soon afterwards.
I didn't find out till homeroom (after 1st and 2nd periods) about what had happened. My principal came over the intercom as usual to make the morning announcements (this was at 9:00) and then he proceeded to tell us that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center.
"Oh" we thought, and continued to 3rd period. Halfway through that class, though, he once again came over the intercom, this time telling us that the second plane had crashed.
My school is across the street from a National Guard armory with a parking lot that some juniors and seniors use to park their cars. The principal then said that anyone who had parked there needed to move their cars (as the national guard was going to mobilize).
At the end of the period (10:03) he told us of the Pentagon attack. At this point it still seemed surreal. The next period I had Computer Science and we spent the period trying in vain to access news sites to read about the disasters.
After this I headed home to have lunch and my dad said I should stay. There I did, and I watched the towers crumble, and the skyline be erased.
My next visit to New York will not be the same as my previous ones, and neither will my next flight.
another "quality" nivelo9 comment
If you have any pictures or video taken at any time today from New York near the WTC, please give a copy to the FBI or the police. They want to see if they can match faces of those in the area with any know terrorists.
I know how we all feel about facial-matching software, but please don't let your priciples get in the way of brining the terrorists to justice. Despite your fears, the *reality* of this kind of terrorism is far worse than the *possible* loss of privacy you fear.
PLEASE turn a copy in to the FBI or Police!
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
http://usterror.nashlink.net is posting updated news on the attacks, please come visit the website, and help us keep things up to date.
I think Bush looked like a deer in the headlights today. CNN showed him crossing the White House lawn from his chopper and the look on his face was.. just not as confident as I'd like. The statement was the same..
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
i wasn't at ground zero but right across the river in cobble hill.
every morning i climb out my window to sit on my roof, eat my cereal and watch the staten island ferry go back and forth in the harbor. today, when i looked up i saw the north trade tower on fire. i went back inside and turned on the television. they were reporting that a plane had crashed into the world trade center. i called a friend to see if she was watching and a few minutes later, went back onto the roof with my digicam. someone on an adjoining roof yells out "holy fuck" and i look up to see something big and dark hit the second tower about half way up and debris and a big fireball blows out of the other side. a second later i hear the explosion. dark smoke and fire poured out of gaping holes in the buildings and south towards the verrazano bridge and south jersey. my neighbors and i watched the buildings and answered cell phones as we watched paper and soot fall on brooklyn. everyone down on the street looked lost. fighter jets flew overhead as we listened to a radio report that the pentagon was hit. a little while later the tower closest to us started crumbling. there was a plume of smoke and a rumble and the tower was gone. by this time the air was thick with smoke and it was getting harder to breathe. my nose and throat burned and i had a horrible feeling in my belly. it smelled like someone let off a giant cherry bomb. when the second tower fell all we could see was more smoke and debris as it had all blown into brooklyn obscuring our view of whatever was left of lower manhattan. my cell phone rang like crazy until the network got overloaded; so many friends lived and worked in and around the WTC. everybody was calling everyone trying to find out who was accounted for and who was missing. the whole thing felt so sick. now i'm staying across town at a friend's place in park slope, further away from the carnage. it's been twelve hours since the first explosion and you can still smell the fire. sad. sad. sad. pics from my roof are at www.kenyattacheese.net.
Encyption had nothing to do with this attack. It is a gerneral tool to protect privacy. I know that nothing is equall in worth to a single life which was lost today. If we attempt to outlaw encryption, then only criminals would use it and this wouldn't change anything. They are protections for indiviguals upon which our country was based. In times like this the rights should be brought to the forefront as we take reparations for the violations of personal rights of each victim of this atrocious attack.
(sorry about the anonymous posting)
-Helicon
I live in this county, about 20 miles from Indian Lake, near Shanksville. I may provide a little more information about it then national news reporters. First, there's a big-ass crater there now. There was a sonic boom before it went down, so most likely it was a bomb. Right after the bomb, the plane started wobbling and went almost straight down into the ground. They have found letters in it, so it's suspected to be a mail carrier. It was crazy when it happened, because we were watching NYC and DC in school, and the local news came on and reported it. Nobody survived, and the FBI isn't letting anyone near the crash site.
http://www.nintendorks.com
George Carlin had it pegged. That's all I can say.
I'm an NYU student, and while I didn't actually see the planes as they crashed into the World Trade Center, I did see the second tower collapse. Here's a brief account of what I saw today...
I woke up at 8:30am, fiddled around a bit, and hopped into the shower around 8:35 or so. Midway through the shower, I heard what sounded like a low flying aircraft, and a loud crash. I didn't think much of it at the time, since we hear aircraft and loud crashes all the time in NYC without thinking to connect the two, but that must have been a plane hitting the WTC, from the time.
My window doesn't face south, so I didn't know what was going on until I left for class at 9:20am. I emerged to see everyone stareing to the south, and when I looked I saw both towers in flames. The pictures you saw on TV don't do it justice. I saw a ring of smoke and fire on the northern face of the west tower, and a few flames on the eastern tower. From 4th street & Washington Square West you could see individual floors on fire. There was a huge amount of smoke pouring from the impacted area and from vents on the roof, and I can only imagine what it must have been like in there. Both planes had hit at this point, and some of the onlookers were still talking about watching the *second* plane fly into the tower before their eyes.
After looking for a while, I dutifully toddled off to class. Class was obviously cancelled, so I returned home to awaken my roommates, "Hey guys! Wake up! The World Trade Center's on fire!" Turns out that one of my roommates was around, and we went outside to take another look. Both towers were still standing, and we presumed that they'd eventually get the flames put out and begin repairs, although we expected to see an ugly splotch on the WTC for some time thereafter. My roommate expected he might have class at 11am, so he started home, saying, "You didn't really need to wake me up, I'd probably have seen it at 11 when I woke up anyway"
"Yeah, that's probably true, but by then it might be a charred hulk."
"Tell you what, if they have it all cleaned up by the time I go to class at 11, I'll buy you a coke."
We returned to our room to learn from CNN that there had been additional attacks on the Pentagon and the Mall in D.C.. Then, on the live shot of the WTC, we saw a huge cloud of smoke start to rise from the base of the east tower. We, like the CNN commentator, didn't realize at the time that the tower was actually collapsing. Taking this to be a suspicious cloud of possibly poisonous smoke, and observing that it was engulfing lower manhattan, my roommate and I decided to start walking uptown ASAP. By the time we got outside, it appeared that the east tower was obscured in smoke (it was actually gone), and we marched up to about 25th street before turning back, as the smoke appeared to be keeping south of 4th street. We were near 6th avenue and 10th street when the second tower fell. We'd only just heard that the east tower had not been obscured, but had fallen, and as that was sinking in people started screaming. All traffic on 6th avenue came to a halt, and I ran out into the street to see the west tower start to collapse.
Clouds of smoke came out of the sides of the tower, and the whole thing just started to slump downwards. Glass and metal framing from the outside was shattered and fell beside the rest. It couldn't have taken more than 10 seconds to fall, but it seemed to take forever. I've walked around the base of the WTC, and this thing was immense! When you approach within three blocks of its base, you feel like you're walking indoors. It just seemed as though something that large could never move on its own. Yet there it fell before my eyes. The sheer enorminity left me stunned. How much it had taken to build, how much it had meant for all of us in the city, how it would probably never be rebuilt. Only as we continued down the sidewalk did I think of the people that must have been inside and around the building. It was not yet 11.
"Hey Xxxx, aren't you glad we evacuated our room? We'd never have seen this from there."
"..."
"Hey, I think you owe me a coke."
Zarchon
PS: As it stands now, you can't go south of Canal street. I took a hike down there earlier today, and it's all cordoned off. There were still a lot of people standing at the ends of the north-south streets, gazeing at the brown cloud where the WTC used to be...
The media reported *ONCE* a possible crash in Colorado. Since then it hasn't been mentioned: no corrections to the original report, and no clarification.
Colorado is home to NORAD, isn't it? The installation wouldn't be harmed -- it's built to withstand nukes -- but it'd be a natural target for scaring the US.
Anyone heard anything more about this?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
i'm on staff at a gaming news site, and one of the staff's close friends posted his account and reaction on our message board.
TEx's account
some of our regulars have some rather eccentric opinions and interpretations, so i took everything but TEx's posts with a grain of salt.
the Gaming Junkyard
grey wolf
LET FORTRAN DIE!
What video games and movies were these terrorists exposed to that caused them to commit such a heinous crime?
Yes, it's tongue in cheek (and possibly inappropriate), but I'm not so sure I'm really kidding.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
I talked to somebody who had talked to somebody else who was in the first tower hit. I am pretty sure he said he was on the 30th floor (though I may have misunderstood) and he managed to get out. He said that it was fine until he got down to about the 16th floor, and then it was just chaos. People were jumping out of windows left and right because of the major slow downs in getting out. Luckily, the guy managed to make it out.
-------------
Andy Tomaka
Something bothers me about this story. From what I have heard on the news, the terrorists were batting 1000 in getting on board aircraft.
Has anyone heard about any terrorists being stopped before they got on board? Did none of them fail at all? Are they magicians?
Has airport security really become this bad? Or have these people found a sure fire way of getting past security?
I woke up.. got on the train for school (Pace University about 3 mins away from the world trade center). My class is from 7:00am to 8:30am and then I get on the train inside the world trade center to go to work, 2 stops away.
My professors watch wasn't working to well and she ran the class kinda of late till like 8:40. I decided hell I need the book for the class I'll go inside the world trade center and pickup a book and get some coffee and head on to work.
I get to the front of the world trade center and hear a loud rumble like a plane. I look up and see a plane kinda low. I'm thinking damn this plane is gonna crash obviously the pilot is going to turn it into the hudson and hopefully that way he/she would minimize life lost. I kept looking.. and standing there.. standing there for about 2 minutes.. the plane isn't turning infact it's trying to get aligned. It slams into the world trade center and debris is everywhere.. TOTAL MAYHEM!!. Everyone is running and I'm standing there in total freaking awe. I couldn't believe it. It's really a good thing I was closer to the building the impact pushed the debris over my head but the guy behind me wasn't so lucky. I heard a big thud and turned around and the guy was laying on the floor. He had a hole in his head that needed to be stitched and was bleeding profusely.. I took off his jacket and try to stop the bleeding helping him. I'm a us army reverist so I know first aid.. I'm yelling for help dialing 911 on my phone (all circuits busy). About 10 minutes later I hear another big BOOM.. and look up and debris is going to hit me.. so I'm trying to pull the guy and decide that's not a good idea.. Good thing a guy helped me pull him over to the Millenium Hotel across the street.. we were in the garage area and debris is still coming down and the plane is still blowing up. I couldn't stop the bleeding on this guy so I told the other guy to stay there as I find a doctor or nurse or somebody.. I see an ambulance and flag it down immediately.. They put the guy on the strecther and I hope he's alright he lost alot of blood.. I've never see a wound bleed so profusely like that (PLEASE PLEASE IF NOTHING ELSE GIVE BLOOD.. JUST DO IT; PLEASE!!).. My dad works in that area so I went to his office.. relaxed a bit and I was actually fine like it didn't bother me. Then I called worked and said I was gonna be late (no one answered). So i went to the train and it was closed off.. so I walked to work which isn't too far.... that was my day.. i am now in shock and on call
I was at the dentist for a 9:30 appointment today, but since the doc wasn't in yet I was calmly reading a ragged copy of PC Magazine. He then casually walked in saying that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. I assumed it was a small private plane, maybe a Cessna, and thought to when a B-29 hit the Empire State Building during WWII and it still opened for business three days later.
On my way back, I turned on the car radio to hear Peter Jennings talking with a reporter in Manhattan, going roughly along the lines of "You said that the tower is damaged?" "No, the ENTIRE TOWER HAS COLLAPSED." My heart raced and I immediatley felt sick.
Upon my return to school, I was further disgusted by the teachers who wouldn't give us news, and insisted we continue as normal; students that didn't seem to care; as well as the fuckers that rejoiced because football practice was canceled.
This is a terrible day.
The scene on the news looked like something out of Independance Day. People running for their lives, a building collapsing behind them, rubble flying in all directions and tons of smoke in the air. Nobody I talked to could describe it as anything but "something out of a movie."
The loss of life is so huge, so colossal, that nobody can really imagine the impact.
This country should get all its military forces together and destroy the military bases and government buildings of every country that has ever helped terrorists. The doors of all terrorists' (known, alleged or suspected) homes should be kicked in at night, and they should be dragged to jails, beaten and questioned. They should be held without bail until a trial. Any people found guilty, and their family members, should be punished severely.
Think actions like this are acts of terrorism? Think two wrongs don't make a right? Why don't you watch the news again and see that plane plunge into the tower. That airplane was full of innocent people, flying to a vacation or to conduct business, or returning home to their families and loved ones. jhaberman writes "A lady I work with has a friend that had a daughter on one of the flights. She said that her daughter (the passengers) were allowed to call loved ones and say goodbye before the planes crashed. To think of that just makes me sick to my stomach."
Pieces of shit scumbags destroyed so many lives today--not only those of their victims, but the victims' families, friends and coworkers. The United States should not play any more games. Terrorists and countries that support them understand only death and destruction. Attempting to reason with them is like talking to a wall, except that a wall will understand you better. All terrorists or would-be terrorists should have their puny balls shaking from fear and should lose much sleep over this. The US must teach the world that nobody fucks around with us. Governments of other nations will think one hundred thousand times before even letting some piece of shit garbage scumbag terrorist onto their soil, because they will know that if any terrorism, even the tiniest amount possible, happens in our country, those governments will be destroyed to the point that their people will have to put together a new government from scratch. NO FUCKING AROUND. AT ALL. PERIOD.
Don't even think about saying that this will cause new acts of terrorism. There won't be any fucking terrorists left.
I first found out about the WTC crashes this morning, 9:30 EST, in my political science class. I learned greater details after getting out of class, and met up with a friend on the way to our next class. Our class ended up being canceled (as were all other classes today) and we ended up strolling across campus discussing how much the attacks sucked and such. It was all quite difficult to comprehend at the time.
Fast forward to 7:30 tonight - my parents happen to call. My mom's cousin was on the flight that crashed outside of Pittsburgh; he was flying home from visiting his aunt for her 100th birthday.
I hardly know the man, but I have met him once or twice, and I remember him as a great person, yet it hurts to picture him onboard that plane, diving into the ground in the pilot's attempt to save the lives of those in the target building. I can't even imagine what those of you who lost someone close are feeling; my condolances go out to you.
Daniel
A post I made at http://mi-net.dynup.net:4000/ today.
I don't know what to say. I logged into Empire as soon as I thought of it, after the news reports started rolling in on Headline News.
I'm so in shock.
I don't feel the pain that many hundreds, and thousands of people are feeling right now. I feel numb. I feel like the last day I came into work 4 hours early, and turned on Headline news, only to watch the destruction of the Murrah building in Oklahoma, nearly as it happened. The same thing happened today, to me. Utter helplessness, numbness.. My mind feels like it's not even there. I'm struggling to even cope with a web browser at this point, trying to force my mind back into my own world.. I think suddenly having my horizons stretched, expanded, and pulled out to encompass the reality of what has happened here in the U.S., has taken it's toll on me.
I feel somewhat like I do after a 16 hour holiday season work day, after personally handling some 200+ customers, and still somehow managing to run my business that day.. but without the happiness of knowing that at least a few of them are better off for my efforts.
There's a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, I can't stand to take in any more video, any more audio, any more pictures, or news articles, but I can't fend it off, and everywhere I turn, there's more of it. But I don't want to fend it off, either.. I don't even want to bring it up here, but I feel at this point that I have to.
There are multiple thousands of people out there today, who's lifelines just suddenly came to a very abrupt end. I hope that the ones who did not make it out of the destroyed buildings were killed instantly - that there was no pain and suffering, or desperate desire and hope to get out of there alive, only to be cheated from it. I hope that those killed on the planes that were hurled into these buildings didn't even have enough time to be afraid, to panic, etc. I hope the rescue workers and such that were at the base of the buildings when they fell somehow made it through, though I'm certain that there is no way anyone could have survived that.
I pray to all the supreme beings that are out there, that those who did manage to survive, will still have some modicum of sanity; that they have people left to go home to; that somehow all the lives that were given today, find their homes in whatever Good afterlife they believed in... and that those who are responsible end in the worst Hell for all their lives and beyond.
I don't think I can say anymore.. I really don't.. but I want to keep going..
May the newfound New York sunlight shine on them all, forever.
- Blade
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Some days in history people talk about and say:
"This is where I was when [disaster] happenned"
These events are those such as:
-When JFK was shot
-When the Berlin Wall came down
-When Japan attacked pearl harbour
Today we have added another entry to this list. Marking when a great many people lost their lives... and when a nation, nay... a world, wept as one.
In 20 or 30 years, you will still remember where you were when you heard that 2 Planes had crashed into the World Trade Center, causing it to collapse.
My own hopes and prayers go to those people who might still be alive in there, and those people who are giving it their all to help others in this time of crisis. This includes the emergency workers, the hospitals staff, and all the people who are giving blood, just to name a few.
However, let us remind ourselves that we are human beings, and that violence begets more violence. To kill anothers son because you have lost yours is no reason. Let us seek justice, not revenge, and not inclict the same pain and suffering we have endured on other [innocent] people.
Thank you,
- James from Canada.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0790731894/ qid=1000256880/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_d_1_1/107-9959611 -7311721
My god, I remember watching this movie and it was so similar to the events of the day.
Check this(the first post of the thread) out. The message is general and the date is a few days off, so its likely just a coincidence, but it's spooky nonetheless.
Giving blood is a good idea, but it's always a good idea. The blood shortage won't go away for weeks, and the overall need won't go away at all. If you can't make it to a donor center in the next few days, go to beadonor.com, find a place to donate in your area, and make a reservation. Even if you can't do it until next week, or next month, you might still save somebody's life.
I never watch television in the morning because I always wake up with about five minutes to get dressed and run up the hill. I
first heard the big news on the bus. Some yuppies in the back were talking, obviously taking about six seconds of CNN
coverage and filling in the gaps with their own conjecture and racism.
"It must have been Osama Bin Laden," one said. I wonder how much this person knows about Osama Bin Laden other than
the fact that the State Department made him boogeyman of the year a while back.
"We need to kick them [Arabs] out of the country. They can't come in any more. Sorry." said a woman.
After a few minutes I gathered that some planes had been hijacked and flown into the World Trade Center. No one knew who
did it, but just like the days immediately after the Oklahoma City Bombing, it was assumed to be the Arabs.
When I got to work things were even uglier. One of my coworkers said, "can't we just beat them to death?"
We're not even sure who did it yet. Members of various groups have claimed responsibility then other members of the same
group have denied it. Many folks on the 'net have cited a television broadcast of Palestinians cheering, but that means nothing.
Some have expressed shock at this, but really, how many of these same people sat patriotically by and watched remote-control
warfare on CNN when we attacked Iraq or Serbia? I'm not saying it's good that people are cheering, but I am saying it's not
surprising.
I'm hearing the usual epithets that one hears when people react to a shocking, violent news event: "sick", "crazy", "coward". At
the risk of appearing to defend the attacks, I'm really not sure if this is productive. Terrorists aren't necessarily "sick" or
"cowards". Terrorists are simply soldiers who can't afford uniforms and high tech military hardware. They are not necessarily
more or less sick and cowardly than the U.S. pilots who bombed a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan a few years ago, or the ones
who firebombed Tokyo and Dresden in the Second World War.
It's important to put things in context, keep a cool head, and deal with the situation as it exists. It's important that none of us be
like the guy who posted to Usenet after the Oklahoma City bombing that we should just randomly attack cities in the Mideast
(after it turned out to be an American, some folks asked him if he thought we should randomly attack cities in the Midwest).
We must follow the words of Mother Jones who once told us, "Mourn for the dead, fight like hell for the living."
That means fighting for living non-White non-Americans, too. Many of us are feeling a compassion for the victims of this attack.
We must keep this compassion alive if and when we hear calls for random bombings of the Mideast, or for attacks on civilian
populations in Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan. We must fight like hell against the racism and xenophobia that hides just under the
surface of our culture, manifesting itself in people who want to kick Arabs out of our country or beat them to death. We must
safeguard the lives of our fellow human beings and we must be vigilant against those in power who will use this as an excuse to
destroy our civil liberties the way they did in the anti-German and anti-radical scares around the First World War or the
Japanese internment during the Second World War.
We must not get hysterical about this being the beginning of World War III. World War III would require both sides to have a
military. Those with a military don't hijack planes. We must not allow the anti-Arab violence that shot up dramatically during the
Gulf War happen again ten years later. We must stop our government from acting like the 800-pound gorilla of the world that
stifles all peaceful attempts at change (like our actions regarding the recent U.N. conference on racism) and therefore makes
violent acts of terrorism the only recourse for some.
We must counter hysteria and paranoia with logic and reason. We must protect our Arab-American brothers and sisters against
jingoism and hatred. We must remember that a lynching is a lynching whether it's performed by people in klan white, police
blue, or army green. We must end the bombing and starvation of the people of Iraq started by Bush the Elder and continued
under Bush the Lesser. This attack was on the centers of American military power and economic domination. Just as we mourn
for the dead who worked at these institutions, we must fight for the living who are victim of their policies.
If we don't fight for the living; if we allow hatred, paranoia, and jingoism to determine our actions; if we cheer U.S. military
superiority as made-for-tv bombing campaigns kill more civilians and destroy more lives; than we are the real cowards.
First off, the NSA's job is not to stop this sort of thing. It's a domestic matter, which makes it FBI and SS. The FBI is also overfunded. More accurately, they're over deployed. Perhaps if the FBI was not out to arrest russian programmers they'd be watching Arab (or McVeigh style Domestic) terrorists.
Or do you think they should be beating Dmitri the programmer until he tells them who bought the PDF decryptor?
We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here Also feel free to send anything in...
On the 12th of September, 2001
The 107th Congress of the United States of America hereby declares a state of war against, ummm, somebody.
Bugrit! Millenium hand and shrimp!
I live in a small town in wisconsin, and the streets are almost completely dead, except for the lines of cars going to the gas stations. Police have been called out to direct traffic and control the mass herds of people going to buy gas.
I dont know how much the prices will go up, but they havent changed here yet. In near by Milwaukee prices are supposedly over $3/gal(up only a few cents norm is $2.50 - $2.80)according to local tv news. An oil refinery in wisconsin was shut down earlier today but has resumed operations, which could cause a slight bump in prices.
I've heard reports on the radio of oil ships being turned away from america, dont know if this is true but if it is it could cause some problems.
My biggest fear (as far is gas is concered) is that stations will just hike the price because the demand is there. (i would normally include an anti-capitalist statement here, but under the curcumstances...)
good luck everywhere else for gas
My condolances to the families of victims
As most of you saw, President Bush gave a quick speech to the US nation in which he included some refrences to his belifes. I think this is a allright and valid thing to do since this country was in part made to keep religios oppression out for every citizen. Unfortunatly, (MS)NBC doesn't agree and rebroadcasted the speech sans the 'God' parts ... the president couldn't even say God bless America. The attacks against our country are a terrible and upsetting thing, and a censoring of a religious minority in the US (Christianity) is icing on the dirty cake. :-(
Yes, indeed it is a crisis. But I hardly think that testifying against unjust legislation is self-centered.
Among other terrible consequences, the government is likely to use this event to leverage more scary laws which limit our freedom, this time for the sake of intelligence groups. It will also not be self-centered to be a voice of reason in these issues as well, so don't give up!
People like you should be shot. You exhibit more than a gross lack of taste, comments like this are just disgusting. Go find a better place to troll, you're not welcome here.
My Uncle Todd (Todd Porter, former CEO of Ion Storm) was sleeping in a hotel room, late for a meeting, when he was suddenly woken up by the most devastating noise. It sounded oddly like a whining jet engine. He was still groggy, up until he FELT the WTC explode. He jumped up to see what was up. He looked out the window to see debris. He only had to wait a moment longer before FEELING the next explosion. A little while later, he FELT the first building fall. Then the second.
The hotel my uncle had been in was 3 blocks away from the WTC. Scary shit.
I got nothin'.
put on FDR's "day of infamy" speech. Now listen to Bush's speech. There's just no comparison.
I don't like to launch partisan attacks on this day, and I really did want to like Bush's speech, but it just couldn't bear the burden of this tragedy.
Of course, this is one of those things you never forget. So where was everyone when they heard the news?
I had just gotten out early out of Numerical Analysis (about 11:30 EST), and figured I'd run to my dorm room to grab my next class's book, and then run to Evans (dining) to grab some lunch so I could get something to eat. I entered the dorm and as I was turning into my hall, a friend of mine shouted out "Hey did you hear the news?"
I'm like "What news?"
"The train station blew up"
"What train station."
"The Pentagon got blown up"
"No shit"
"Yeah, a plane crashed into the Pentago and another plane crashed into the World Trade Center."
"Holy shit!" and I entered the room and began watching CNN....
the rest, is well, history...
I would go there for birthdays, all the way up to to the observation deck, and spend the day there with my Grandmother. I have more childhood memories from these buildings, by far, than anywhere else in the world.
It was an amazing place. Structured yet mysterious, metalic yet comforting, with an amazing variety of nooks, crannies, personalities, and other secrets to discover.
It was also a very social place, with people having lunch at the plaza, looking up at the building and sky [1] or sharing time on the observation deck or in line to get there [2].
I went to the observation deck every time I could; every time I was in New York City... I've easily spent over 100 hours there throughout my life. In March, I spent the day at the observation deck on tower 2, then had dinner at Windows on the World on top of tower 1 [3].
It was a spiritual place for me, as strange as that may sound. It presented an eagle eye view of the world I grew up in; my childhood in one panoramic view [4] [5]. There I could reflect on my past and look forward to tomorrow.
I would always sit at the same bench on top of the observation desk. The one closest to the Statue of Liberty. I'd stay there, looking out to the Atlantic, for hours and hours on end. I learned many things about myself and other other trade center visitors there. I would focus on that spot, on top of the building, on top of the world, one small, specific spot ... yet everywhere in the universe, in an expanding stream of thought. It was my own form of meditation, on an amazing bench that no longer exists.
When my wife and I got engaged, I wanted to get married at the top of the trade center. We didn't end up doing it, but others did. [6]
I loved it for the unique place that it was, but not nearly as much as I -- or anyone -- loved all of the unique individuals who have now died there. The tragedy is unreal. The reasons absurd. The people, and their lives, invaluable. I will never forget them.
I am not a vindictive person, but this calls for something beyond revenge. This requires a defense of our way of life, about our principals and individuality. Anything that can be done to remedy this should be done, and will.
God help us all, and especially those who did this.
-Jonathan ... http://www.robpatton.com/photoalbum/jontaylor/9.jp g )
( at the World Trade Center
Driving home took me twice as long because many places like the U.S. Embassy and many Jewish places were heavily guarded and many streets were blocked.
I myself had my father murdered last year, and I feel with everybody who has lost relatives or friends in this brutal crime, who will live through moments of this day through next months again and again, and who will not enjoy a happy moment for long while. Everybody who has ever lost a loved one as result of criminal violence knows what I am talking about.
What can help is to find out who did it, why they did it, and what can be done that such a thing will never happen again.
Jane's has some professional assessment of who might be capable and has a motive for doing such a thing.
Their analysts say Osama Bin Laden is Nr. 1 on the list of suspects.
Whoever will turn out to be behind this, it is very probable that he used Know-How that was originally created within some government secret agency like the KGB, the CIA, the Mossad or maybe a dozen other government funded agencies from around the world.
The USA has it's share in supporting "freedom fighters" against foreign rogue governments. The USA once even supported Osama Bin Laden when he organized the Rebellion in Afghanistan against the Russian occupation. Other examples of former U.S. friends are Sadam Hussein, who was supported in his war against Iran, the Contra in Nicaragua, and the UCK in Yugoslavia fighting against the Serbs. There are probably a few hundred groups and leaders supported worldwide by 'civilized' governments, many of them with the clear intention killing people to reach their political aims.
In the above and many other cases US agencies helped to spread weapons and guerrilla warfare techniques, and probably more important, it created shady organizations with capable leaders, structures and worldwide contacts with the primary purpose to spread terror and destruction.
The problem is, that after the war is won and the rogue government overthrown, these people, their weapons, their followers and their state of mind doesn't cease to exist.
Throw in some areas like Palestina, Afghanistan, Tchechenia, Africa and Middle/South America where children haven't been seen human rights or peace for the last 30 years, and you get a large supply of people who have nothing to loose except their miserable life, and get the chance to become eternal heroes within their society by blowing up themselves and taking as many as possible with them.
What can be done
No "civilized" country should sell any weapon to anyone without democratic legitimisation; even better, all international weapon trading should be simply forbidden, including hand guns
All secret agencies in "civilized" countries must be closer controlled to avoid creation of new guerrilla armies around the world
Anonymous Transfer and laundry of large sums of money must be controlled to dry up funding of weapon trade and funding of rouge groups
Every Individual connected with weapon trading or supporting guerrilla in a foreign country should be severely punished
Human rights must be honoured everywhere in the world, and everyone not honouring them should become outlawed
Fair International Trade and real substantial development support should help to create a reasonable level of wealth everywhere in the world
The problem with the above things is not that they require an idealistic world; the problem is, the would put many important and powerful people in the USA and other countries, Israel quite ahead, in the rogue camp.
The USA e.g. would have to face that killing imprisoned people, even convicted criminals, is not justice, but a crime against humanity.
And just hearing about some explosions in Kabul, it seems that the US Government has a long way to go, and to learn some more lessons. I do not have any sympathy for those lunatics in Afghanistan, but they are a result of cold war superpower games and did not chose their fate, and the killing of innocent people does not justify the killing other innocent people.
Another thing from history that many people in the U.S. are not aware of:
Terrorism works.
Especially in rich countries where life is highly valued, and people have a lot to loose they are easily scared by terrorist attacks, even if the real danger is statistically marginal compared to tobacco or traffic, the perceived danger is large enough to change a society.
And you can not stop terrorist attacks by people who are willing to sacrifice their life; just look to Israel these days.
You can not stop terror by killing people, as you can not cure your AIDS by fucking a virgin, as believed by many people in Africa and Asia.
Some predictions for the future:
Someone guilty will be found, probably Ben Ladin
Bombs will be thrown by the US Military, and more innocent people will be killed
A lot of annoying and expensive security measures will be taken
Civil Rights will be restricted in the U.S. and other civilized country
More innocent people will be killed in the U.S. by terrorist attacks
Finally, the terrorists will not achieve their ultimate goals and be hunted down and isolated from their environment;
to achieve this, compromises will be made to dry up the particular terror breeding grounds, like creating more wealth and stability in these regions
the fear of terrorism will have impact on political decisions, and in the long term US politicians will be more careful because of this fear
After this bad day I hope that today's events will be a unique experience in my life, and not the begin of a new era of terror and war.
Lets make this world a better place.
p.
Without order, nothing can exist. Without chaos, nothing can be created.
The Canadian Blood Services are overwhelmed according to TV news services. Please call 1-888-2-donate to arrange a time and place to give in Canada!
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
This calls for total, devastating retaliation. Everyone likens this event to Pearl Harbor, but this is much more deadly - civilians were intentionally targeted and killed.
We must respond by declaring war.
Here is a very interesting page from the BBC -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/new sid_1537000/1537530.stm
It is a lot of first person accounts apparently from British citizens working in the US who witnessed the events in both DC and NYC.
It is a very interesting alternative to all the news reel footage on TV today.
I've heard reports that the perps took over the planes with *knives*, not guns.
God DAMN it, I don't want to get on a plane ever again without a sidearm. If there's a firefight on a plane, the plane can come down, but we just learned today that that's not the worst thing that can happen.
El Al has NEVER had a hijacking, because they have armed IDF men on every flight in civilian clothes, and the terrorists know it.
I want every man and woman with a concealed carry permit to be allowed to carry their weapon on aircraft from now on. This business of having hundreds of people at the mercy of a handful of nutcases has got to stop.
When that asshole shot up the train on Long Island a few years ago, he was able to reload TWICE before the people on the train realized that he wasn't going to spare anyone if he could help it, and jumped him.
All the crap we've put up with, invasion of privacy, victim disarmament, and general docility training didn't prevent this attack. I say it's time to change our tactics.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
This is an email I got today from a friend:
It was a very unpleasant morning.
Fortunately, my building was several blocks away from the
WTC. After the first plane hit, there was a blizzard of
papers from the first building. We had just found out what
had happened and were wondering if it was an accident when
one of our colleagues, who was at the window, yelled that a
second plane had hit. (We have a direct line of sight to
the WTC.)
I quit watching the buildings, but heard colleagues reporting
people jumping from the WTC. Frankly, I was worried about
people I knew who work in the same area I do. (And am still
worried about some of them.) We started to evacuate our
building, but four of us were left behind when the building
management asked people to quit leaving the building. (I'm
not dumb. I was just trying to make sure everyone was out of
the office and ended up sticking around too long.)
We all moved away from the windows and began to wait for the
signal to evacuate. There was a sound like a jet liner and
then all the windows were blocked by dust and ash. We weren't
sure if another plane had hit nearby or what was going on.
The building management then evacuated the building. Of course,
this was one of the towers collapsing.
The streets outside were covered in about an inch of fine
dust and there were papers everywhere. I remember seeing
a roll of archetecture blueprints lying on the ground.
Breathing was difficult and it was hard to see very far.
The crowds were quickly filed to the East River and at that
point a long walk began up Manhattan to the West Side.
I know many people view the WTC as a global symbol, but having
worked in the area, eaten in the mall under it in the morning,
and shopped there, I think of it as business building. It is
really hard to comprehend people flying a plane directly into
a building where people are simply going to work. It is even
harder to comprehend how you could stare in the faces of
passengers, including children, and deliberately crash them
into a building.
Not a good day.
I'm a student at New York University. I live in downtown Manhattan. When I left my apartment this morning the two jetliners had just crashed into the WTC. I hadn't heard yet but my neighbors were out of the doors, some yelling.
I walked to class, trying to call my mother on my cell. It wasn't working. No one's cell phones were working. I could easily see the billowing smoke along my walk. Just a shock.
After class the professor turned the room's television on. The update was that the two buildings had collapsed and that the pentagon had been hit also. In the hallway a girl was trembling, slowly walking along, telling her friend that both of her parents worked in the WTC.
I walked around the area and it was unbelievable. Burned bits of paper and pulverized ash covering everything. I picked up one of the papers. It was a receipt for some computer parts. The address of the office was 1 World Trade Center, floor 37.
God bless.
Thought those of you who are sick of looking at the images of the destruction of the glorious World Trade Center might like this unusual one I took of the World Trade Center in July... Little did I know it would fall two months later. If you use the image, please give me the credit. http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/garage/6249/wor ldtrade.html
--sh0x
A response to the 9/11/2001 World Trade center and Pentagon crashes
This morning the Pentagon and World Trade Center towers were bombed by hijacked planes. How will the United States react to this attack? How will the people of this country come to understand these events, and what will be done as a result?
The citizens and residents of this country have the responsibility to guide our leaders in how we respond. The tendency amongst our politicians and media will be knee-jerk retalitation. Please let us resist the temptation to cause more harm than has already been done. Those who took these actions are now all dead along with the victims. Others may also be found to be responsible and they should be bought to justice through the process of international law.
This, like all acts of terrorism, is abhorrent. But whenever discussing terrorism it is important to note that the majority of terrorist actions are carried out by nation states, although they are not labeled as such by the corporate media. These actions far outweigh the private, individual actions of terror that we are all assuming today's attack to be. This attack did not occur in a vacuum.
As of yet we have no idea who is responsible. We believe it to be a case of 'blowback'. Why? The pentagon is a symbol of military power. The trade center is a symbol of economic power. These institutions stand for and act to perpetuate U.S. global dominance. An attack on either of these institutions individually could be variously interpreted. The combined attack on both suggests a target of US global hegemony.
As Chalmers Johnson writes in his book Blowback (publ. 2000, Henry Holt): 'The term "blowback", which officials of the Central Intelligence Agency first invented for their own internal use, is starting to circulate among students of international relations. It refers to the unintended consequences of policies that were kept secret from the American people. What the daily press reports as the malign acts of "terrorists" or "drug lords" or "rogue states" or "illegal arms merchants" often turn out to be the blowback from earlier American operations.'
Chalmers catalogues a number of American policies that have given cause to a variety of peoples to resent America. Among those peoples that we have antognized over the past 50 years he sites (in no particular order) Libyans, Chinese, Japanese, Saudis, Kurds, Koreans (both north and south). To that we could add peoples of Serbia, Iraq, Indonesia, Vietnam, as well as nearly every country in africa and the americas.
From Johnson again: 'Terrorism by definition strikes at the innocent in order to draw attention to the invulnerable. The innocent of the twenty-first century are going to harvest unexpected blowback disasters from the imperialist escapades of recent decades. Although most Americans may be largely ignorant of what was, and still is, being done in their names, all are likely to pay a steep price--individually and collectively--for their nation's continued efforts to dominate the global scene.'
As we move forward from today's disaster, lets beware of nationalist responses of revenge which serve to continue the cycle of violence. Let us introduce the concept of 'blowback' to contextualize acts of international terrorism, even as we argue against them. Let us take this opportunity to rethink the global effects of our behavior and how they impact our future security.
Joseph Maurer (josephmaurer@hotmail.com)
Oliver Crow (ocrow@skymind.com)
I go to Stuyvesant High School, which is four blocks from the World Trade Center. I don't want to write to much here, but I have never been so scared before in my life. Before we were evacuated, somebody told me that they had just heard that the NYC Supreme Court (very close to our school as well) had been bombed, so I thought the attacks were still going on. Of course this was not the case, but I couldn't verify it because we had lost TV signal with the collapse of Tower 2.
Just as I was leaving the school with the first couple hundreds of the three thousand students, Tower 1 collapsed. People started screaming and running back inside, and I started to follow them but then regained some semblance of composure and continued to exit, because no police officers or faculty were telling us to go back. I thought that the school or the area near the school had exploded or was being bombed.
When I got outside I saw a girl, clearly a student, crying, motioning into the school and shouting "go back!" I stopped for a moment, but then continued after realizing that all the police officers were still telling us to exit. As I passed them one of them said something like "Go quickly but keep calm," and that's when I took off. I ran a mile and a half up the West Side Highway and East into Manhattan until I felt I had effectively distanced myself from all of downtown's happenings. As it turns out, our school was not harmed nor attacked, though it was engulfed in the smoke from the collapse of the WTC. If you catch the clip on Fox News of students running out of the building, you'll probably see me. I remember, as I was first leaving the school, thinking "I may die here today," and being numb and uncomprehending about it. I didn't think the probability was that I was going to die, but I considered it a serious possibility, and I've never had to confront that kind of fear before in my life. It was terrifying.
The look on his face was the exact same dumbass What Me Worry? look he ALWAYS has on his face.
Just when we need a leader... we get Dubya instead. Thanks, Republicans. Couldn't even have picked a actual breathing human being like McCain to run, couldja? I don't grok how a man without a single redeeming quality whatsoever (I'll send a dollar to anyone who can name one) got to be leader of the free world. He isn't even fun to make fun of... it's like making fun of clowns, what's the point?
I've never been more embarassed to be an American. Biggest crisis to come along in my lifetime, and we don't even have a figurehead to look to for soothing words, much less a bonafide leader.
Yeah, yeah, I know, it's flamebait and my karma could suffer, and all the Republican apologists will come crawling out from under their rocks to assault ol' Bill Clinton as a halfwitted counterpoint, but whatever. I'll vent if I feel like it.
I sent the following letter to my friends:
______________________
Subject: What should be the response to violence?
September 11, 2001
Everyone,
As is often the case, the Economist seems to have the best story: America under Attack
Also see The Economist front page
One of the important points made in the article is that security in U.S. airports and on U.S. airplanes before the bombing was lax compared to the security in Europe.
The Economist article does not mention that the Bush Administration in the U.S. had recently increased its support for the Israeli government and therefore also Israeli violence. The Clinton administration, in contrast, was more careful not to do things which could be interpreted as an incitement to violence.
It is amazing to me that "intelligence" authorities claim that they did not have any idea that there would be an attack like this. Below is a link to an album cover from a band called "The Coup". It is black American "Party Music". The album was sold long before today's bombing. The album cover shows both towers of the World Trade Center in New York in flames:
The Coup -- Party Music, album cover shows the towers burning.
Commentators on three of the largest U.S. TV networks, NBC, CBS, and ABC, have made comments that assume without debate that the U.S. will engage in military action in retaliation. One U.S. senator said on TV that the U.S. response should be comparable to the U.S. response to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor. The U.S. response at the time of Pearl Harbor was to be the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons, causing genetic damage that continued long after Japan became a favored trading partner of the U.S.
Under the stress of conflict, people show how they truly think. It has always annoyed me that people who call themselves Christian often reveal that they don't really believe in the important messages of Christianity, and that they don't even understand those messages.
Basically, Jesus Christ's idea of not returning violence with violence means that we can protect ourselves, but that any response must be the true minimum necessary to achieve security. This is a theory that can be recommended even to the majority of people in the world who are not Christian. The theory seems to fit the facts. The facts seem to be that violence always has severely negative side-effects that overwhelm any effect that might be seen as positive.
This is my reply to the many people who are recommending violence as an answer to violence:
Do you have any thought that violence in retaliation might be a mistake, and might just invite further violence?
The U.S. government (not necessarily the U.S. people) has a history of thinking that violence is the answer. The U.S. killed 2,100,000 people in Vietnam and maybe 150,000 people in Iraq. The U.S. has bombed 14 countries in 30 years, killing a roughly estimated 3,000,000 people.
These people had mothers and fathers, friends and families and wives. Most of the citizens of the U.S. had, and have, no idea of the beliefs of the people that their government killed. Most people in the U.S. cannot even locate the countries the U.S. government bombed on a map of the world.
No matter how violent a country is, or how many people a violent country kills, there is still an inexhaustible supply of people in other countries who also want to engage in violence. Violence can be unending. Do you want that?
No matter how angry you are, there are thousands of people who are more angry than you. Do you want them to attack you?
The Bush administration recently increased U.S. support for the violence of the Israelis. This was sure to make the people being killed by the Israelis unhappy. Do you find it surprising that some of them are motivated to violence also?
There are many countries where people are severely distressed by Israeli violence. Recently there was a TV news story about street violence in which Israelis were killed. The Israeli counter-attack was shown on TV: A helicopter fired rockets at a building, causing huge explosions. It is not important in this instance whether the Israelis are the aggressors. What is important is that a significant number of people think they are the aggressors.
The problems between the Jews and the Arabs have existed for 3,300 years. The Jews say that they are the "chosen people" of God. The Jews say that Arabs are descended from an illegitimate child of their tribal founder, Abraham, and a slave girl.
It is not difficult to understand the thoughts of the Arabs. It is not difficult to understand that it is annoying to live next to a group of people who claim that they are superior, and that Arabs are inferior. It is not difficult to understand that it is annoying to live near people who claim that you are a descendent of a bastard and that God doesn't like you as much.
It is also not difficult to understand that the constant claims of the Jews of superiority over everyone else (including people of European descent like me) is mentally de-centering to Arabs who happen to be psychologically conflicted. Mentally de-centered people engage in violence. It's that simple.
Does the U.S. really have a place in a dispute that began 3,100 years before the founding of the country? How many people here really understand this dispute? What percentage of the citizens of the U.S. can even find Israel on a map of the world? I think the percentage is low.
I find the arrogance of my Jewish friends annoying, too. However, there are many differences between myself and the terrorists. I am less conflicted. I am better educated. It doesn't matter to me what other people have been saying for thousands of years; I don't believe Jews actually are superior. I don't live in an area where I am at risk of being killed by Israelis. I am not Arab, so I am not the target of the strongest claims of Jews that they are superior.
Violence is caused by mentally de-centered people. Being violent makes mentally de-centered people even more mentally de-centered. That's why violence is not a good answer to violence. Prevention is a good answer. Better understanding is a good answer. Being charitable long before any problems begin occurring is a good answer. But violence is not a good answer to violence.
Regards,
Michael Jennings
Bush's education improvements were
Not sure if anyone will even read this far but...
My roomate and I got off the subway at the walls st stop just after the second plane hit, had no idea till i got out what was going on. Saw the smoke when I got in the subway in the East Village, but thought it was local.
Went to our office on Broadway and Wall, watched the first tower collapse from the window there, that was all it took for me to decide to get out of there. It was like being in a blizzard out there, couldn't see the sun, couldn't breath too well. I managed to get pretty far away by the time the second tower came down, but my roomate was pretty close. (still on broadway). I am still amazed that none of my friends (many of whom work in the area) were hurt. One was 30 feet away from the south tower when the second place hit, he ran for his life and ended up ok.
I walked home, and feel pretty safe now.
I used to be able to see the wtc towers from my room, but no more.
my heart goes out to all how didn't make it. What a day.
-chris (gandalf@darkcorner.net)
whaddya mean, "re-elected"?
We didn't even elect him once.
I suggest that, next time, the person who gets the most votes should be the one who actually wins.
rhyder writes "I was last in the World
Trade Center and the attached World Fianacial Center on Saturday evening. Many
people I know work in those buildings, even more live and work in the shadow of
those 2 towers. From the Port
Authority of NY and NJ:
1. The Port Authority
2. Trade Center Concourse Level Map
3. Trade Center Plaza Level Map
4. Trade Center Complex Overview
5. Area Map showing southern tip of Manhattan and the Trade Center
location.
When I first heard the news in the morning and right after that saw the second plane crashing into the building at washingtonpost.com, I couldn't believe my eyes.
Sad, very sad...
How could someone even think of doing such a terrible thing?!
But I am also having hard time understanding, why people here ask the question: 'How could this happen here in US?' Why not? US may be the biggest power in terms of arms, air force, navy etc., but why is it is normal somebody in a second world country has to live with random explosions and somebody in a third world country under constant terror? I think we have reached today by 'normal'izing this terror in the countries far far away and considering it no different than an action in a Hollywood movie.
=== Report the survivors! === this is a clearinghouse for reporting people you know made it out alive.
Please report everyone you know of who has survived the attacks.
U. Berkeley has apparently supported this with a few hundred servers. GO TO IT AND SPREAD THE WORD!
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I arrived at the Metro Center stop this morning at 9:12 to walk the one block to the DC HIV AIDS Administration offices where I (as of today) used to work. Before I had gathered my thoughts enough to start being actually productive, the receptionist on my floor came by my office and said that I was to evacuate the building because the Pentagon had been attacked. I didn't need to be asked twice... I left the building and told my boss that I was going home. I decided that it would be a better idea to walk to a safe distance from the office becuase I was expecting the attack on the Pentagon to be the prelude to a slaugther of all the people who, having been flushed form their buildings, would be trying to get home on the Metro. I walked to Georgetown, where the very kind man at the Body Shop on M street let me use the phone to let my parents know that I was still alive. I then went to wait by Revolution Cycle store where I had agreed to meet my father. Most of the day is still a blur -- I remember wanting to punch out the people running around with their cameras trying to take pictures; wondering at the resolute courage at the bicyclist that went by singing The Star Spangled Banner; seeing how well DC officials and the people in DC handled the evacuations. Most of all, for the first time in my twenty years, I feared for my life. I am still shaken, and not very focussed, I don't think that I will be able to gather myself for a while. But right now, it's all secondary -- today, I was one of the most supernaturally lucky people I know... I'm alive, I'm at home and all my friends and family are safe. But there are lots of people who didn't get so lucky. They need help -- some people need blood, some people need comforting. You know what the people around you need: do what needs doing.
any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; and therefore never send to know FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS It tolls for thee.
can anyone back this up.
... apparently large incoming missiles,' a CNN reporter said. The report came hours after a major terrorist attack on the U.S. destroyed New York's World Trade Center towers and damaged the Pentagon near Washington."
y ah oo.com/news?g=events/wl/091101nydccrash&a=&tmpl=sl &ns=0&l=&e=3&a=0&t=
"Explosions lit up the night sky in Kabul, Afghanistan, CNN reported September 11, 2001. The Cable News Network showed footage of a series of flashes and flames in the Afghan capital. 'There are missiles flying across the city
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/story.news.
Tell me what the hell are you going to shoot at INSIDE an airplane? Where does the bullet go if you miss? What happens to you when the plane is de-pressurized? Do you ever think?
Whenever we retaliate, I'm sure that innocent lives will be lost.
But...
The innocent lives will not be the primary targets, and I have some confidence that there will be every attempt to minimize the loss of innocent life. Today's attack was DIRECTED AT INNOCENTS, and that's a big difference. Or perhaps more properly, whoever planned today's attack considers that ANY American is part of the ENEMY. By that token, ANY of their citizens become part of our enemy, so there are no innocents there, either. Still, I'm sure our response will have some attempt at AIM, and not at common citizens. It gives me a little more respect for the Israeli over-zealous response to Palestinian attacks, where I had next to none, before. At least they have had *some* direction, not human bombs at restaraunts, and the like.
It's nothing but ugly.
The only good thing that can come from this is that world leaders will see how close to the brink we are, and pull back.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Sept. 11, 1922 - British mandate of Palestine begins - source - http://www.scopesys.com/cgi/today2.cgi
My condolences to those who have died and their loved ones
Yes, some of you know me as one of the "old" DC2600 guys. A scant few of you know me as a Defense Contractor employee that works on the US Army Aviation Budget as my "real" job.
The day began slow, was running late for work, showed up moments before the first WTC strike. Checked with boss on anything new since day before and when he is going to the National Guard Readiness Center. Nothing new.
WTOP is the only radio station that comes in at my cube, in Chantilly, VA, near the NRO (see other posts, other threads). WTOP reports that an airplane has hit WTC 1. I metion it to a co worker, retired 10 days ago Army Aviation instructor and other cool stuff (he was an instructor there when I was in flight school). Both of us sluff it off as just some dope flying in the wrong place.
A little while later, WTOP reports plane 2 hits WTC 2. I grab a more receptive audience, Larry the retired Command Seargents Major of the National Guard. We listen to the radio, dicuss what is up and start specuating. Yes, we began joking too... I offered a bet that the pilots were Allied students of Mark's from the mid '80s (Aviator mentioned above) from Lebenon... seeinng the MSNBC stream on the net sayig that AC #2 definately had a "PLO control touch"... etc.
Pentagon gets hit, Larry and others start calling our employees that work in the Pentagon and elsewhere in the area (we work on our firms site, we have people that work on client sites). Everybody is fine...
Talk ensues of units being mobilized (some of us are sitll reservists), what will happen (check end or this post), etc.
My family lives in TN, just remembering that mom has said that I work in the Pentagon for 7 years, even though I never have worked there, just visit the building on occasion for work or to impress my son. Call mom, remind her that I am safe and sound in Chantilly, VA, right by the NRO, directly on the approach path to Dulles Airport (yes, the paths of the planes landig orth, right runway, bisect my building) and I STILL do not work in the Pentagon. Concience satisfied.
News of a hijacked plane around Dulles, with F-16s in persuit gets to the office. 2 of us went outside to look for the chase. All we heard/saw was afterburer noise... went back to the 4th floor to get a better view.
Got e-mail from mom, aknowledgig my voicemeail. Sister had sent her a message asking if I was at Pentagon today (sorry, I do not work inside the beltway, aka getto), they were glad I was okay. Replied with story of looking for the dogfight (eventually was revealed as false report).
Folks with families here began going home just after lunch, big bosses begin telling us to go home. I tell them that I will stay, son (18) in TN only knows my work number, doubt that he is that worried about me but I want to be by the phone in case he is worried. Forwarded e-mail between me and mom to him.
Office gets deserted as I polish up some work and watch whatever web streams of the crashes I can find. Sr. VP comes through and asks if we had accountability of all of our people on client sites "as far as I know, yes, everybody is fine."
Head out for some dinner, deli is open, not playig radio, relaxing with an Italian Sausage sub. Head back to Reston, VA, cruise into the Town Center to grab a beer. Looks like a Rod Serling TV show, buildings intact, no people. Main drive through the place is closed off, almost everything is closed. Watch MSNBC and CNN in "Bistro! Bistro!", chat about the events with my trusty bartender, Mark Mac, and with others. Create conspiracies "it was the FIRA (French IRA), supported by the un-holy alliance of the Illuminati and the Masons"
Happy hour ends at 7, I get home to try to call Emmanuel of 2600 Magazine, "Off the Hook" is on soon, he might wat a voice from the DC area. No dice, phones still overloaded (sincerly thought that the phone emergecy was over).
Since I have been conditioned for over 22 years to be calm in events like this, I still am, but twinges of emotion creep in, anger, sadness, etc. since I am mentally waiting to be ready to do somethig, but in reality i don't have anythig to do in this situation, unless I get a phonecall from the Army.
My heart goes out to all of you that have experienced a loss today.
Granted, the intel guys *might* have been able to see this in advance, but these attacks were trivial to plan and conduct. DO NOT LET THE POLICE FORCES TURN THIS INTO AN EXCUSE FOR A POLICE STATE!
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
The USA e.g. would have to face that killing imprisoned people, even convicted criminals, is not justice, but a crime against humanity.
What should be done with a lunatic that kills six people? Do you think he should be housed in a prison and guarded for the rest of his life? And are *you* going to pay for that? That's nice. Commit *real* attrocities against humanity and your punishment (reward?) is free room and board on the public's tab.
I wonder if you would change your mind the night said psycho breaks into your house, kills your children, and rapes your wife.
Where do you over-civilized pussies get the impression that you have innate "rights"? Your civilization is an illusion. Security does not exist in nature.
OBterrorism: I don't want them brought to justice, I want them sent to hell!
...because I donated two weeks ago.
Shame on those of you who only donate blood after a catastrophe, when it is needed all of the time. We wouldn't need long lines at blood banks in emergencies if all of our blood banks were fully stocked by regular donations.
Both my wife and I are O-, universal donors, and we feel it is our civic RESPONSIBILITY to regularly donate blood for those less fortunate than we are.
To be sure, the next time we become eligible to donate again, we'll be there. As usual.
Slashdot is the home of gay porn and offensive flamebait. Get used to it.
-- The_Messenger
(Posting anon because of a temporary account ban. But don't worry, beautiful, I'll be back in 24 hours.)
I guess this is a quote from Nostradamus:
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.", "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning." - Nostradamus
At work we could see the smoke from the burning buildings, but not the buildings themselves, since there was another building in between. However, when tower two fell, we could see all the dust from that, obscuring all of lower Manhattan from our tenth floor view.
At that point we were sent home, but I was still in disbelief that the tower had fallen. I thought maybe the top had slid off or something. Another guy thought he'd heard that the radio tower had collapsed, so I walked a couple of blocks north, then headed back west, to the north end of West Broadway.
Many people were there watching tower one burning as well as the dust from tower two. I glanced away for a moment, but looked back when I heard a gasp from the crowd, only to see tower one collapsing.
There was a puff of smoke around the top of the building, then the roof began to fall, including the huge transmitting antenna on top, caving into the building below. After a second or two, we could hear the rumble of the building - it sounded like thunder.
By now the crowd had turned to go north, some running, some walking, but everyone moving with some urgency. I didn't want to run since I didn't want to cause anyone else to panic.
As we crossed 6th Avenue, we passed Mayor Guiliani, surrounded by aides and reporters, who I found out watching TV later had been forced from his mobile command center near the towers.
I continued up 6th Avenue, and apparently the Mayor continued up West Broadway, where he tried unsucessfully to set up temporary headquarters at the swank Soho Grand hotel. We were to cross paths again as he ended up back on 6th Avenue, hoping to get into a fire house, however it was locked. Supposedly someone in the entourage tried to break down the door with a fire extinguisher, and they ultimately made it inside.
I spoke to a friend who works two blocks south of the towers. I'm not too clear on his timeline, but he was engulfed in dust and debris when the first building collapsed and I think he said he took shelter in the building where he works, only to be nearly flattened by the second building falling about half an hour later. He was incredibly fortunate that he had no physical injuries and was able to make it home OK, though rescuers initially wanted to take him to Staten Island.
He also said he called a friend who'd been working in one of the towers and that they had left the building immediately after the first plane hit and were on the street when the second one hit 18 minutes later.
That suggests to me that the loss of life will turn out to be a good deal lower than it could have been. In fact, another friend pointed out that the bombing in 1993 may have actually saved lives today, as those who remembered it may have left at the first sign of trouble.
Now for some personal thoughts: I feel incredibly fortunate that my close friends and family are all unhurt, though I'm sure I'll find out soon enough about acquaintances and friends of friends, etc. who weren't so lucky. I wish everyone could be so lucky.
I know this is offtopic, but I agree. Politics aside, he is the president, and I was/am willing to go along with the leader of the country. Until I heard the speech. He said nothing memorable, nothing inspiring, and just looked like what we've gotten used to seeing: a lightweight who looks like he fell into the job.
I was hoping for a strong condemnation of the people who did this, an emotional expression of the nation's sorrow, and a stirring call-to-arms.
Instead I got generic statements of sadness, and a quote of Psalms 23.
I was upstairs in my bedroom, having been up fairly early, or all night, I don't remember.. I had the TV on... I was switching channels... I turned and found... the regular channels (I had been watching kids programs on PBS) nbc..abc..cbs.. and saw.. the trowers.. with the gaping hole... the smoke billowing... I called my dad, woke him up (I think) got him to turn on the tv, yell up to mom... to wake her up... talking... or not so... talking to dad.. on the phone.. the cell actually, I think I had left the computer on the line downstairs.. I didn't have much to say.. then... live on tv... the second plane... oh my god... I was shaking... shaking... didnt have anything much to say.. just shaking.. got off the phone with my dad... called friends... woke up buddy in california.. told him... told him he didnt want to get up... had just gone to sleep... had second day of work today... told him I think they would understand... called other buddy in cali... hes online chatting... call other friends, leave messages... go get online... chat all day, watch tv.. keep people updated... sleep, cry, chat, read, listen.
--
A!A
When did it begin to sink in? When I looked outside, and I could see the smoke. When I watched the towers crumble, and saw the footaage of those horrible scenes we've all seen by now. When friends started asking if I were all right, and people started advising me to evacuate, and I realised that things were locked down so tightly I couldn't have if I'd wanted to.
Some guy on the television, asked why he wasn't evacuating, echoed the thought. Where would I go? And so he stayed, and so did I. Running wouldn't have done that much good, as it turns out. September 11th, 2001 has been, quite simply, the single most hellish day I've ever gone through.
You're right.. it's a day I won't forget. I wish I could.
We shall find peace. We shall hear angels, we shall see the sky sparkling with diamonds. - Chekov.
My wife, Stacy, worked in tower #2, 21st floor. She was in a
meeting at 8:45 when the first plane crashed into tower #1. She
heard the plane coming in, loud enough to make her think it was
flying unusually close to the buildings.
After the crash, she saw large chunks of burning debris falling
down. Her office decided to evacuate immediately. Thanks to all
the fire drills they've done since the '93 bombing, they knew
exactly what to do, where to go. They got into the staircase
quickly, and started walking down the 21 floors.
Stacy didn't hear any alarms or building announcements. There
were other people in the staircase, heading down, but it wasn't
crowded.
When Stacy and her coworkers got to the lobby, security guards
directed them away from the Liberty St. exit. They used the
Church St. exit instead. Outside the building, security guards
told them to move away from the building. One of the guards kept
shouting, "It was a plane, not a bomb!"
At first Stacy hesitated, because she saw debris coming down,
but she realized it was paper from offices. So she crossed Church
St.
As Stacy was crossing Church St., she turned and looked back for the
first time. She saw the flames shooting out of the top of tower #1. She
stopped in her tracks for a few seconds, stunned.
Across Church St., Stacy found a bunch of her coworkers in front of
Century 21. Their boss told them to go home. Stacy turned and starting
walking down Cortlandt St. towards Broadway.
Near Broadway, Stacy stopped to look again. She didn't see the
second plane crash into tower #2, but she saw the enormous
fireball explode. People started screaming. Everyone on the
street started running away from the Trade Center.
I asked her what it sounded like. Oddly, she doesn't remember hearing it.
There were fire engines and emergency vehicles everywhere.
Stacy ran about 3 blocks before she felt safe. She walked to the
entrance of the Brooklyn Bridge and sat down on one of the benches
to collect herself.
As Stacy walked across the bridge, she kept looking back at the burning
towers. They were intact while she walked. On the Brooklyn side, she
picked up a bus and was home by 11 AM.
I was at school my friend was like ohh yah I think a plane or something hit the sears towers or something and they fell down. but shortley after all the classrooms had the TV's on CNN and they were watching what happend. I live in canada by the way.
...happen all the time. im not saying its not a tragedy, but its not the end of the world. might be the end of america, but thats debatable too. the point is, just because america was attacked, doesnt make it more important or more of a tragedy than any other country. im sure most of you, when a bombing in a foreign country comes on the news, think "oh dear...shocking really..." and flip the channel. but when it threatens dear old US-of-A, its immediately the end of the world. set my alarm clock for when we get world wide devestation Independance Day style.
Dont ask me...Im just the bass player.
First, work should start immediately to rebuild the World Trade Center. This time they should make it a little higher.
Second, we should invade Afghanistan, and
kick out the Taliban and install a democratic government. I don't care if they are responsible or not, I just hate those guys.
Third, we should take the Palestinians and move them to Saudi Arabia, and declare Saudi Arabia the new Jerusalem. Mideast problem is now solved: Palestinians are rich and don't have anything to complain about anymore, Saudi corrupt Islamic theocracy is gone, Saudi royal family are out on their butts, Israel is now just a patch of desert that no one wants.
http://safe.millennium.berkeley.edu/
755 reports so far. Links to other sites with the same purpose.
I've already reported those I know of so far whom I've personally verified to be OK. Please do so yourself if you're able.
Russell
My condolences go out to the friends and family of the victims of this horrific crime. Attending an east coast college, I have talked with many people who are from the areas where the attacks occured. This has hit close to home. I really have no words to describe what I am feeling.
With that said, I refer you to the excellent salon.com. Their coverage of this event has been extraordinary. I especially hope you read the first-person accounts of the terror. A number: that is difficult to identify with. A person, however, is much different. Remember each one of those thousands was a person, with his/her own life and nothing should be taken for granted.
...just what this story has to do with a first-person account of the tragedy? This person wasn't even there. He got rained on by some ash from the fire and saw some fire trucks. Whoopee. I think it's insulting to everyone who actually was there, both at the Pentagon and the WTC. People who avoided death, who got hurt, who saw their colleagues die jumping out of windows 50 stories above the street.
/. is that he was about to testify to the USPTO. This is a sickening way for /. to get "original" coverage on the terrorist attack.
Those are the people who should be given the day here. Not some fucking wannabe poser whose only reason to otherwise be published on
I thought about giving blood when the news media forwarded the plea for donations. I'd probably be turned away due to the incredible volume of volunteers.
So I'll do it tomorrow. Or the next day.
There's always a shortage of donated blood. Even when this is over, don't forget the gift you can provide to those in need.
And there's always a need.
there are kids and sisters and mothers and daughters
and wives and sons and fathers in afghanistan,
ive heard people wanting to 'nuke it'.
that would kill all of them.
and there are lots of US citizen arabs,
friends, families, who rednecks are going to
try to kill or hurt or burn down their house
or what.
thats why they dont want vengeance to overcome
them, they dont want to be consumed and
cease being human.
Given the amount of time we spend on /. insulting each others' countries, it really means something to know that when something horrible happens, the rest of the world actually does care.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
I was witnessing the smoke in the afternoon along with hundreds of others in Montclair, NJ, from Eagle Rock park, when the 3rd building went down at 7 WTC. Suddenly the light grey smoke from the earlier explosions was replaced by thick beige dust and smoke from the last collapse.
On our Moravian College Campus, my fraternity, Sigma Phi Epsilon has decided to sell yellow ribbons for a $1.00 donation which will be given to the Red Cross. For a school of about 1300, we made $500.00 in three hours already. We'll be doing it for the rest of the week. Take the initiative and you can help the cause.. everyone is willing to help as long as you present the opportunity to them..
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/rel ief-outside
My story is similar (BTW I apologize for the bad spelling and grammar, I'm still a little (or a bit more) shaken up)
I got out of Language arts (about 10:15 am EDT), and was dropping of my stuff in my locker when someone came up to me and said, "Hey, did you hear? The world trade center got blown up."
After a few minutes of him trying telling me about it, I went into my homeroom, and I saw a picture on the tvs that I will never forger: the two trade center towers billowing smoke, and 10 or so kids just sitting there, watching the incoming video without any movement at all. May we kill the evil bastards that did this evil.
:wq
When I got on the subway this morning, there was some mumbling on the intercom, but I couldn't hear what it was, and paid no attention. At the next station, the intercom was clearer, and the doors were open long enough to hear "This train will not continue past Chambers St. An airplane has struck the World Trade Center."
At first we thought it was an accident, but a woman in the subway car had a walkman, and by the time I got out at Times Square, we knew that there had been a second crash, and it was probably no accident. I got into my office, and joined the group huddled around a TV in the conference room. A minute or two later, WTC Two collapsed.
We were all in shock. To think that this was happening a mere two or three miles from our office, to the tallest, greatest buildings in the City, was unbelievable. The guy who handles our hardware resale started crying, realizing that the people from Sun that he had worked with for so long had been in those buildings. Other people stared at the screen, or cried, or tried to call friends and family members.
I stayed around the office for another hour or so, and then wanted to get back home (uptown). By then the subways were out of commission, so I had to walk.
For perhaps the first time, I was pleasantly astounded by the people of New York. I had expected the worst: A terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, you might expect chaos in the City. I had been worried about chaos in the streets, riots, looting, violence... With all the City's forces occupied in combatting this threat downtown, people could take advantage to further their own purposes. But there was none of that. People were calm, rational, and helpful. People who had radios shared them with others. People walked steadily uptown, no panic, no hysteria. I wanted to give blood, but there were too many donors already lined up, so I have to wait until tomorrow.
The people of NYC have actually responded well to a challenge to their safety and their peace of mind. What happened here today was a tragedy of epic proportions, and will never be forgotten, but we will always remember as well that New York City did not collapse when the Twin Towers did.
-Joe
If you have an amazon.com account, go here to donate to the red cross to help disaster relief. People from all over the world, this is your chance to join together and help.
Q H7 EKCX/002-4745400-5764805
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/PKAXFN
I've heard reports that the perps took over the planes with *knives*, not guns.
I'm amazed at how easy it is to fly with a knife, especially one that's not just a swiss army knife. I've flown with a coworker several times who carries on a Spyderco folder with a 4" blade. (It's apparently FAA legal, but most airlines set tighter limits on blade length.) The crack X-ray security troops never even notice the knife because he packs it so it's vertical on the X-ray machine and they don't see a classic blade shape. I've personally flown a dozen legs with a 3" Spyderco folder and with only one exception, I have been able to simply walk through metal detectors without setting them off. (On that exception, the security tech inspected the knife and gave it back to me.)
I'm not suprised at all if these guys got knives on the planes. I'm just suprised that they were able to gain control of the planes with knives.
I can not understand how one individual with a knife could take over a cockpit and either force a pilot to fly into a building or disable everyone and fly the plane himself. I've seen report after report where some drunk a-hole acts up on a plane and a half dozen guys beat him down. Where were those guys on these flights?
I am a cadet at the United State Military at West Point, NY. We are located about 50 miles directly North of NYC on the Hudson. If you don't know what USMA is it is a military college that give a top of the line education in exchange for 5 years of you service as an officer in the army after you graduate. I am a freshman (plebe) here. We are totally military oriented. The majority of teachers are officers and our environment revolves around the military.
About 0900 EST I had just woken up from a nap and was working at my computer. A plebe from across the hall come over and told me to turn on the news; a plane had hit the WTC. I did that and saw the disaster. My roommate just got back from a class and started watching. We had not heard many details but with knew this was going to be big, especially in our area of work.
0930 I headed to my Psychology class. Before class we put the TV on and watched the news. Even the teacher was somewhat upset. While I was watching (before 0945 when class started) the bottom of the screen had a line about a fire at the Pentagon. This was all I heard until I came out of class at 1040.
I walked out in the hall and everybody is abuzz. I asked someone what was up and found out both the building have collapsed. I went back into a classroom with a TV on to set what was up. I found out that both buildings were down and a plane hit the Pentagon. Then they said a plane near Pittsburgh was hijacked. I am from around near Pittsburgh. Around this time I headed back to my room. An auditorium was open with CNN playing and many cadet's in there watching.
Back in the barracks I walked past my roommates Team Leader's room (TL is a sophmore -yuk-who is responsible for squaring away their plebe). She called me in to watch (technically its against the rule for plebes to use their computers to watch TV or listen to music until Christmas break). We realized this was big, really big. A good number of Cadets are from military families or know someone who works in the Pentagon. This was around 1110 and we heard there were several planes that hijacked and the Capitol Building was bombed (this later turned out as false).
Lunch formation was 1200. We were told that business would go on as usual. The Corps of Cadets would continue activities as normal. No classes were canceled. The skies were clear all day; no smoke or anything.
Security is much tighter. The post is open only from one road. We must carry our military ID's everywhere in every uniform. We are not permitted to order any food into post (we have a MickeyD's that delivers). The barracks are open only from one entrance. All passes and off post privliges have been suspended. High accountability standards are being enforced.
Everyone is upset. It hits us especially hard. We are a target as the nation's youth and future of the military. We are prepared for anything. Believe me, we in the military are not all gung-ho about nuking them. We are rational people. This is a travesty against our country. We as a people cannot stand for this. Also, don't place blame on any source until we are sure who has done this.
I think many Americans today don't quite understand the situation. Worrying about innocent civilians is admerable and very American. And as Americans we don't intentionally make war on civilians. However, in times of WAR civilians do catch hell and die. What happened today is an act of war. In war you try to destroy the enemy, but in every case(most likely especially this one) civilians are close to the bad guys though. And those in the middle east who celebrate today should consider the fact that before today the US was an ally of Israel, but were not the active enemy of palistilians. By their actions, they place themselves with our enemies. If they knew the history of our nation, they would know that can be bad for long-term health. As it stands, I believe we should make as sure as possible the culprits of this act. And then we will come down like an astroid on them. Those who are close should be advised.
Due to the recent events, there will undoubtably be major changes in airline security. I would just like to make some speculations.
Naturally airport security is going to be much much higher. But on the plane itself I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes. Such as some sort of armed security person on most flights or every flight in the US. Also, I could see them trying to modify the plane to seal off the cockpit from the rest of the plane which might require a totally new plane. Im not an aerospace engineer so im not sure how difficult or practical this would be to do.
I have a question, why passendger plains at all
have possibility of access from salon into pilots
cabin? Why not to make it totally separated?
So if someone wants to get into pilots cabin,
there should be no other way except landing.
Is it so difficult to implement?
Today was a very scary and tragic day in New York City. I commute to work by taking the subway downtown to the World Trade Center, then transferring to another train to get across the Hudson River to New Jersey.
This morning I was on the train (late for work as usual) and I was surprised to find the subway stopped in a tunnel, then it bypassed the WTC stop. I got out at the next stop and went above ground, looked up and saw the WTC 1 tower on fire. When I heard that a plane had hit the building, my first thought was "terrorist attack", so I headed away from the building - southeast - to the corner of Broadway and Wall Street. There were hundreds of people in the street looking up at the WTC towers and trying to call home on their cell phones (which were overloaded and not working)
I queued up to use the pay phone, called home and my wife told me that it was a terrorist attack, the Pentagon had been hit as well, I'd better come home quickly.
I continued walking south on Broadway, and heard a noise like a jet plane passing close overhead, then a tremendous BOOM. Everyone in the street screamed and ran, we all thought it was a bombing. This may have been the 2nd plane hitting the second WTC tower. There was a tremendous cloud of smoke and ash filling the air, you could not see or breathe well. It looked like a war zone. Someone said that the towers had collapsed, I thought to myself "that can't be right. those towers can withstand anything." Everyone was running, trying to get the hell out of there.
I ducked into the subway station and tried to get a train uptown, but no trains were running. People were terrified. I thought about catching the Staten Island Ferry to get out of Manhattan, but I decided I'd rather be at home with my wife. I went above ground, started walking east - away from the financial district. Thousands of people were flooding the streets, walking towards Brooklyn and uptown. I spotted an empty cab (!) and got in, picked up another passenger and we managed to get through the crowds to the highway. I got home safely around noon.
We then started calling family and friends, including some of my friends that work in the WTC. Luckily, all of my friends are safe and accounted for. Life is going to go on but I think things are going to be very different in NYC for a long time.
Has anybody thought too look on the security
cameras at the airports?
Not only that... read the 7th post... HOLY SHIT.
The following is the email I just sent my friends and family....
:-)
-----
Hi.
Wow. What a day.
I guess, as a first thing to mention, I'm fine!
I live uptown, on 110st West in Manhattan. The World Trade Center is way downtown on the West side, what would be around -30 st or so, probably 150 blocks from my apartment. I live a few blocks from Columbia university on the one side, and a few from Harlem on the other side (right on the edge of the gentrification of the ghetto).
My roommate Steve works at "Windows", the restaurant at the top of the World Trade Center. He was not working today. I was doing a pro skate gig for the NY Rangers Hockey team last night, handing out flyers on skates/foot dressed in Rangers jersey - we did this at the World Trade Center, so I was all over that place just last night.
Steve and I were both sleeping this morning at 8:30 when the phone rang, which we ignored and let the answering machine get it, it was Steve's boss who left a message asking if Steve had class today, or if he could come in to work. I rolled over and went back to sleep. Some short time later the phone rang again, it was Steve's mom, and she was like "a plane crashed into the side of the WTC". At that point I jumped out of bed, and yelled for Steve.
We frantically turned on the tv to see the images of the tower in which Steve works on fire. Needless to say we were amazed. At that point, we (and the news) thought it was an accident. Just a few minutes after we started watching, the second plane hit the other building. That is when we were like "that aint no damn accident!!!". Steve was starting to seriously wonder about the health of his coworkers, and how many would have been at work... and that his boss had just called from there, not 15 minutes before it happened.
At this point I was like, why am I watching this on TV...let's put on our inline skates, and go see this first hand (from a very, very safe distance). So we changed Steve's messaging to let his family and friends know he was ok (they thought he might very well be at work in the building). As we were sitting on the front steps, you could see all the police, fire trucks, and ambulances blaring towards downtown. Then we heard what sounded like two gunshots from up the street, and a lady and her kid came running from that direction. It occurred to me at that moment that every police officer on the island of Manhattan was heading downtown, and that there wasn't any left uptown where I was. Anyhow, we skated out around the block the other direction and over to the west side highway bike path, which heads all the way up the west side around the tip of Manhattan.
Anyhow....it took us about half an hour to skate the 100 blocks (5+km or so) up the West side. You can imagine our surprise when the WTC came into view, and there was only ONE tower remaining!!! As we were skating, Steve was like, "what am I going to do for work, it's gonna take them weeks or months to fix that". We started to realize just how serious it was. I had told Steve to bring his radio, so we turned that on and started hearing about the Pentagon and White House stuff. At that point I was like, I'm not going anywhere near any major building. The bike path is right to the west side, and not near anything.
Steve pulled out his camera and we took turns taking a picture of each of us against the backdrop of the burning smoking tower.
So we skated further up against the crowd. At that point, all the people evacuating the lower half of Manhattan were walking up the bike path, along with many people standing around stunned, trying to contact people on their cell phones, which weren't working. The radio was reporting that there were still several planes unaccounted for, which scared us, but then fighter jets started swooping overhead, which made everyone feel a LOT better.
We stopped working our way up just after Chelsea Pier, at 14 st where we then had a good view of the remaining burning tower. We were too far away to see people jumping, but we could see all the flames, and the huge amount of debris in the area felt quite close. I just want to stress that at that point we were still quite some safe distance away, probably about 40 blocks, or two kilometers.
We had stopped to listen to the radio someone had playing out the back of a truck. At that point I saw the second tower start to collapse! I was like "HOLY s@!*&t!!" That site will probably stand as the single most incredible thing I will ever see in my life. It was completely surreal. It was such an amazing thing to see it was like it was a movie or something. I'm sure you have all seen the footage on TV. You could actually see the skeleton of the building come out the top of the rubble, then it fell too. The pictures show a lot, but firsthand was indescribable! The dust cloud looked like what you imagine a nuclear blast would look like....flying outward through the whole lower half of the city between the buildings, and billowing up into the air!
After that, there wasn't much to look at (from that distance) other than a big cloud, so we decided to head back home and tune in the TV again. I imagine from that point on we have all been watching the same footage.
Im still kind of in shock regarding how many people must have died. Having been in that building yesterday...just the thought of how much rubble must be all over the place. And watching all those emergency crews fly past us while we were skating, to find out that many of those people probably died when the second building fell. It's indescribable.
Steve's case is amazing. He so easily could have been at work in that building (on the top floor none the less). The little things in life which determine whether you live or die...it's a thin thread. If your time is up, your time is up. He probably knows 5 good friends who are dead. His boss called from there 15 minutes before!
It's a good thing Steve had left that message saying he was ok, because his phone had 10 messages when we got back, and has been ringing off the hook all day.
I talked to a cop in the pizza shop on the corner tonight, and he said they were now having problems with looting downtown. I mentioned the gunshots I thought we heard, and he said that I didn't have to worry anymore, as everyone was on full alert everywhere now.
Anyhow... the whole city is shut down, and is a complete mess. It will be really interesting to see how this all unfolds over the next few days, weeks and months. It's really scary to be in a city/country where this happens. I'm glad I'm ok. The whole thing is surreal.
Anyhow...I'm ok, that's my story. Back to watching the news...
Wow!
I seriiously doubt that this was entirely or even largely a domestic matter. True, the crime occurred in the US and therefore that criminal investigation will be conducted by the FBI, however, foreign intelligence is allocated to the CIA and NSA. If this operation was organized, trained or funded overseas it would be out of FBI juristiction and fall into CIA/NSA area of responsibility. More than likely it was a combination of both. Of course there was a failure in intelligence, and I agree with analysis that we need more HUMINT (human intelligence i.e. CIA). At the same time I strongly beleive that the NSA should have whatever funding is necessary to listen in on any communications outside the borders of the United States.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
He is not Bill Clinton.
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
This is a thread on a google messageboard about Nostradamus... read it while it's still up.
the gas stations are starting to gouge us.
Prices for gas in Southern Michigan have hit $4.00/gallon.
My heart goes out to a classmate of one of my best friends.
She, who is 4 months pregnant, and her husband who had a meeting in the WTC this a.m. at 9. We haven't heard if their okay, but here's hoping...
We can forgive him for slipping into an echo of his father, with his initial, entirely inappropriate "...this will not stand..." (I can see already sick "jokes" using that). But to then go on to make such a lame speech is not forgiveable. Americans expect leadership from their president. Bushs's words didn't inspire *me* with any confidence that he has a clue what he is doing. As many other /.ers have already (sensibly, if amazingly) said, this is a time for level heads. That's *level* heads, not dunder heads. With my fingers crossed that Bush's advisors are better than his speech writers...
>>...and pissing off millions of people
And what do you think our American goverment does day in and day out? The better part of the world whole heartedly despises the US, and frankly, if I were in their position, I probably would to.
-------------
Andy Tomaka
On the other hand, I got a real kick out of the joke.
Lighten up chump.
- It's anarchy baby. Suck it up.
I am a cadet at the United State Military at West Point, NY. We are located about 50 miles directly North of NYC on the Hudson. If you don't know what USMA is it is a military college that give a top of the line education in exchange for 5 years of your service as an officer in the Army after you graduate. I am a freshman (plebe) here. We are totally military oriented. The majority of teachers are officers and our environment revolves around the military.
About 0900 EST I had just woken up from a nap and was working at my computer. A plebe from across the hall come over and told me to turn on the news; a plane had hit the WTC. I did that and saw the disaster. My roommate just got back from a class and started watching. We had not heard many details but with knew this was going to be big, especially in our area of work.
0930 I headed to my Psychology class. Before class we put the TV on and watched the news. Even the teacher was somewhat upset. While I was watching (before 0945 when class started) the bottom of the screen had a line about a fire at the Pentagon. This was all I heard until I came out of class at 1040.
I walked out in the hall and everybody is abuzz. I asked someone what was up and found out both the building have collapsed. I went back into a classroom with a TV on to set what was up. I found out that both buildings were down and a plane hit the Pentagon. Then they said a plane near Pittsburgh was hijacked. I am from around near Pittsburgh. Around this time I headed back to my room. An auditorium was open with CNN playing and many cadet's in there watching.
Back in the barracks I walked past my roommates Team Leader's room (TL is a sophmore -yuk-who is responsible for squaring away their plebe). She called me in to watch (technically its against the rule for plebes to use their computers to watch TV or listen to music until Christmas break). We realized this was big, really big. A good number of Cadets are from military families or know someone who works in the Pentagon. This was around 1110 and we heard there were several planes that hijacked and the Capitol Building was bombed (this later turned out as false).
Lunch formation was 1200. We were told that business would go on as usual. The Corps of Cadets would continue activities as normal. No classes were canceled. The skies were clear all day; no smoke or anything.
Security is much tighter. The post is open only from one road. We must carry our military ID's everywhere in every uniform. We are not permitted to order any food into post (we have a MickeyD's that delivers). The barracks are open only from one entrance. All passes and off post privliges have been suspended. The football game for this weekend is status pending. High accountability standards are being enforced.
Everyone is upset. It hits us especially hard. We are a target as the nation's youth and future of the military. We are prepared for anything. Believe me, we in the military are not all gung-ho about nuking them. We are rational people. This is a travesty against our country. We as a people cannot stand for this.
there was a pregnant arab lady in OKC,
someone threw a brick thru her window,
she had a miscarriage right there,, lost the
baby.
u hear alot about how 'everyone came together'
and all this, but you dont hear about the
muslim's house in tulsa that got burned
down and spraypainted all over.
dan rather was good, esp. compared to other
networks, because he condemned the stereotypes
and such like. i didnt see that on CNN
and i thought it was quite irresponsible of CNN,
blabbering 'osama bin laden' all over the air
before they know anything... its like
what is the point of news, spread rumors
or report facts? well nobody makes a profit
off 'just facts'... whatever anyways
just keep your level head, stay a human
being instead of a stupid prejuidce
animal who kills and hurts innocent people.
What happens to you when the plane is de-pressurized?
Duh, it doesn't hit a building full of people?
Do you ever think?
Well, there's a question that rebuts itself nicely.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Just thought the Americans would appreciate that all the blood donation centres in Toronto are crowded with a 3 hour line up.
My mother told me about the "War of the Worlds" fictional radio broadcast from when she was young. It was made to sound like a news broadcast of aliens invading our planet. Many people didn't realize it was fictional and panicked.
My alarm clock radio woke me to this story this morning. Until I verified that my radio was tuned to a legitimate news station, I thought, and hoped, that this wasn't really happening.
By the time I arrived at the commuter rail station, the Pentagon was on fire and all inbound trains were cancelled.
I still don't know if any of my co-workers were inside when it happened.
It's impossible to imagine the hate that could drive anyone or any group to do such a horrible thing.
Is that it? I wanted to copy and paste something and it was disallowed. Damn. NOT "Radio Free Europe" at all.
db
Cig:
ôô
I saw the second plane hit the building as I was on the phone with my wife who was staying at her parents with my 3 week old son. I saw debris fly everywhere and a huge fireball. At that time I told my wife I love her and ran to put on some clothes and flee my apartment. After grabbing the first clothes I could see, I ran out into the street where there were thousands of people littering the streets in amazement. Utterly stunned at what had happened. Women were crying and running. Everyone was getting as far away as possible. As I walked I saw people jumping or falling from the building's upper floors. I will never forget that sight for as long as I live. I walked up to my office which was about 25 minutes from the WTC. From there I was able to call family and loved ones to let them know I was ok. Co-workers who had made it into the office were crowded near a radio as our internet service was spotty at that time. From the corner office we all saw both towers collapse. We saw dust covered cars and dust covered people making their way uptown from the financial district. After finally deciding to leave the office and try to get to Queens, I had to walk from Spring Street where my office is to the 59th street bridge and walk across. In Queens I managed to catch the 7 train to Flushing and get my father-in-law's car. I drove a coworker home and then made my way back to my in-law's house where I am staying. I might not be able to go back home for weeks. I am not sure what has happened to my home or my neighborhood. One thing is for certain though. A lot will have changed. Tonight after dinner I went to the nearest hospital to donate blood. I have never done this before and now is when I am ready to start. I am glad that my family and all the people I know are ok. My thoughts go out to those who didn't make it.
I'm not sure if we're dealing with just a terrorist. Bin Laden does have deep pockets ($100 million plus I've heard). And considering the terrorists supposedly used knifes and paper cutters, it doesn't sound like the operation was necessarially well funded (although they may have opted to use thes weapons so as to bypass security).
There very well might be state's that helped. We can bomb the hell out of them. Then what? Maybe the succumb... but will the people? Will they only become more irrate? If so, then maybe that country will aid in more terrorist attacks against the US and other western nations in the future.
Or then again, maybe it's not a terrorist group. My roomate pointed out that this may really be a covert attempt to lure the US into a war. They may have hidden the war attacks as terrorist attacks to make the US make the next move.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Thank you for your first-hand account.
After the initial shock of what had happened wore off, I began thinking: I wonder how many people were saved because the first plane hit at 8:45, instead of, say, 11:00?
I hope there was enough time between the first and second plane crashes that people were stopped from going up the twin towers.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
He said nothing .
Wrong. He said it all:
"We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them."
He doesn't need to speak, just act.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Right, and then some moron's firearm accidentally goes off, blows a hole in the floor, depressurizes the plane and kills everyone.
There's a reason firearms aren't typically allowed on planes.
Offtopic:
I see these movements across the country to give blood, and I am appalled. The Red Cross currently has a large supply of blood on hand. There is not a need for an influx of millions of gallons of blood right now.
I cannot understand why I am hearing and seeing these recommendations all over. Apparently it's just to make people feel better, and provide some mental gratification for people who are so upset that they want to give blood to feel better about all this.
We should shut down these blood drives, and send people to NYC/DC to help out where there are real problems, or at least to stop waisting people's time giving blood that will be thrown away eventually anyway.
TERROR - The price of hegemony
The World Trade Center - monument of the New York business community, towering over downtown Manhattan like twin silver phalli pointed at heaven - is but a pile of smoldering rubble. Crashing down along with this symbol of capitalism, modernity, and civilization is the overweening hubris of a government - and a people - who thought themselves immune. It is the doctrine of "American exceptionalism," the theory that the US - blessed by Providence and released from the travails faced by other nations - is exempt not only from the rules that govern and limit the powers of other nations, but also from history itself. For history - and not only history but physics - tells us that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. No one is immune, and this is the meaning of the horrific events unfolding before our eyes.
Let's reiterate what has happened: in a coordinated operation that involved hijacking a plane from Boston, two aircraft dove into the World Trade Center, leveling both buildings and (probably) killing and injuring thousands. Not only that, but in Washington, D.C., the Pentagon itself was reportedly under attack, with at least one explosion in the area: also the US State Department is the scene of yet more high drama, as it too is rocked by explosions in the area and evacuated. It was a strange sight indeed to see an F-16 jet fighter plane patrolling the skies above New York City and the announcer's voice intoning in a sepulchral voice that the primary election scheduled for this morning in New York has been canceled.
Suddenly, Americans wake up one day to find that they are living in a Third World country. Would anybody be surprised to learn that all civil liberties have been suspended, and martial law declared? What is going on?
What's going on is this: the war is coming home. The war fought by America and its chief Middle East ally against the Palestinian uprising has moved from the streets of Gaza to the boulevards of the imperial metropolis. What Americans are facing, now, is what the Israelis face on a daily basis. For us, these attacks are a horror of monumental proportions, something so out of the ordinary that to call it "unusual" would be something of an understatement: for the Israelis, this is a way of life.
STORY CONTINUED HERE
A friend called this morning to tell me that a plane had just crashed into one of the World Trade Center Towers in New York, and like so many other people, I watched in horror as the second plane hit. My first thought was for my youngest sister who had just moved to New Jersey and was within 20 minutes of New York. I was imagining her visiting the World Trade Center or checking out New York or any number of senarios that could have her near those towers, telling myself that the odds of that being true were probably nill even as I dialed her number. I was only mildly worried and irritated when all I could get was a busy signal, and I'm hitting redial when news coverage switched to the Pentagon and word came that a third plane had crashed in DC.
...It took me 2 hours to get ahold of my sister in New Jersey, and she was heading out the door to donate blood and try to help at the blood donor centers (She's a nurse.) She told me the local news was showing people falling from the building because they couldn't see through all the smoke that there was no longer a floor in front of their feet. Her neighbor had a son who worked in the WTC on the 88th floor, but because he was 10 minutes late, he was only on the bottom floor when the disaster occurred and he escaped before the buildings collapsed.
My father works in the Pentagon and my other sister works just across the river from the Pentagon. I freaked. My entire family was next door to or inside this entire disaster, and every fsking phone line and cell circuit seemed to be busy or down. I dialed my mother, my father's office, both sister's apartments, their cell phones.
My father works for the DIA and ABC had been reporting that the side of the building hit had been where the DIA offices were. But I finally got a hold of my mother to learn that my father had been in the basement of the Pentagon watching the WTC coverage on TV, and idly speculating about the odds of them surviving a hit if they were next, casually figuring their odds were pretty good since they were 4 levels of walls and security inside. My dad didn't even know they'd been hit until my mother called and told him to get his ass out of there because another plane had crashed into them. When he told her he'd go check and see if it was true, my mother ordered him to get home or else, and to get my sister out of there.
He and a coworker walked to my sister's office across the way because there was no way to get to the cars in the wreck of a parking lot. By the time he got there my sister's company had already been evacuated so he walked to her apartment in downtown DC to make sure she was ok. I finally got through to them on the phone as they were heading south in my sister's car.
While I'm incredibly thankful that my family is safe, I'm also aware that so many other families are not, and this a nightmare we won't be waking up from anytime soon.
Sedai
There are some similarities: the grim determination to rescue, clean up, and continue life as normal and not let it affect you. The pulling together of people from all walks of life uniting to help each other. The faith that sustains.
However, this attack feels very different. I think that the biggest difference is how unbelievable this attack is. I'm still having trouble comprehending that it actually happened in real life. Most suicide bombings are sickeningly real, while this is like a horrible fantasy.
There is also a freshness to the horror here. This is something that Americans have not really had to face. It is a naivete lost, a bubble burst. Very different from the weariness that Israelis feel at yet another attack.
Another aspect of this tragedy is that, to me, it is so huge that it's impersonal, faceless. We don't know who did this, have no person to put our finger on. There is no shaheed, his "heroic" face plastered throughout the Palestinian Authority. Nor do we really know why, or even exactly what their target was. The American government? The American people? Bankers? Globalization? Or, as our leaders proclaim, Freedom and democracy?
And the losses are so massive that it's impossible to get a sense of who the victims are, unless you know someone personally. I think that's the most important thing for us to concentrate on right now: there are real people who are real victims. We can't let the sheer numbers obscure the pain. Unfortunately, this attack will redefine tragedy: from now on, if "only" a hundred people are killed, that will seem like nothing. We must remember that each person is an entire world.
to quote bubya
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them,"
This line is very significant. It sets the stage for Bush to direct the armed forces/cia/nsa etc to strike boldly and generally at any all terrorists and the countries they live in. Be prepared to watch video's of smart bombs taking out buildings and compounds in countries around the world, esp. the middle east.
And the follow-up to these attacks: more terrorism, heaven forbid a couple of suitcase nuclear devices are involved.
This war is un-winable!
Whatever happened to the day of war commanders sending messages (on horseback/foot) to one another before deciding to let their soldiers storm into death and battle.
I sincerely hope dubya doesn't over react, he should listen to his european counterparts that have been dealing with terrorism (albeit on a smaller scale) for decades.
Get ready, this could get a lot worse in the next decade before it gets better.
Y
no sig.
We played the game with Oklahoma City. We were wrong - it ended up being a homegrown military man who fought in the Golf War to protect America.
I don't think racial assumptions and stereotyping is going to help resolve this situation any sooner, nor adds to the great discource that is remarkable appearing on slashdot.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Just think about how Palestinensians have been treated during the last decades.A lost war, being put in camps... and they still fight.
Call me an ignorant American (and damn proud of it!), but I don't give a shit about the Palestinians. My people suffered a loss today. That is what concerns me. Fuck you and everyone who says those NYC civilians "deserved" it due to agressive American imperialism.
BTW, don't feel too much sympathy for the poor, downtrodden Palestinians. The moment the US drops support for Israel, the Palestinians will drive them straight into the Mediterranean Sea. Of course, that will also be the fault of the US, because we won't help the poor, downtrodden israelis. You can't win, and it is hardly the fault of the US.
I was in your country when the guy went crazy down in Hobart. My entire trip changed that day. I was in Adelaide at the time.
Had the Hobart tradegdy happened in the US, it would have had maybe 4 minutes on the news, everyone would have said "That's horrible," and then the news would have been right on to their next 'skiing squirrell' story.
But not you guys. I was touched by the grief everyone showed - even when I was what, 600 miles away from Hobart? Everyone had the same look that my office coworkers and I had today - one of shock. Even at the end of the week when I got on the plane to head home the populace was still in a state of mourning. I could tell it really bothered your nation.
I honestly still can't believe that what I saw on TV not 12 hours ago really happened. Yes, I sat there and watched. Yes I read the news. No, it has not sunk in yet. On the news today a guy who had made it out of the WTC said, "This is Die Hard movie."
It seems like one to me too.
I was having my car serviced on US 1 just south of Crystal City, when the sales guy mentioned that a plane had hit the WTC. I thought it was a terrible accident, but assuming it was a Cessna or some such, I thought little about it.
Then he said a second one hit, and identified it as a twin-engine passenger jetliner. At that point I began, as everyone else did, to suspect terrorism. It was still a little too new, and all the sites were flooded (there wasn't a TV near).
Then, as I continued to read Analog, I thought I heard something and then heard some fire engines. I didn't connect it until someone just made a choking sound and pointed out the windows toward the direction of the Pentagon. We could just begin to see white smoke, quickly followed by gray, billow over the PTO buildings and the hill above Crystal City.
At this point we realized there was something coordinated going on, and people moved from looks of worry to upset. We went to the street to get a better view, but there wasn't much to see. I have a fatalistic bent and decided there wasn't much I could do one way or another at the moment (no EMS or relevant skills) so I went back inside but couldn't begin reading again. At this point my nearly forgotten car was brought out, and the tech, visibly upset, just waved at it.
"It's running, keys in the ignition. Just...screw the paperwork, you should be set to go." He immediately went to the more important, if less immediate news that was coming from a radio they had.
I decided it was time to go to my office, which slightly further south and closer to 395, where people were again upset (as I must have looked). Reality clearly hadn't sunk in for some. We heard additional jets but it quickly became clear that they were fighters--one went supersonic and left a boom that had us pouring out onto the street and scanning the horizon for smoke. There were cheers from the 7-11 next door when they realized there were F-16s overhead.
After that, it was just waiting and worrying and trying to wait until the phone lines were clear enough to call my folks and reassure them.
Well, I knew this was a possibility when I moved here. It's too bad--there are so many wonderful things here.
Daniel Levin, the CTO and a founder of Akamai, was on board the American Airlines Boston to LA flight that crashed into the WTC towers today. I have only met him once, but I was impressed with his inteligence, poise and personality. He will be sorely missed.
He was 31.
More details can be found here
Fortune favors the bold. -Virgil
I woke up this morning and read e-mail. I was about to get up and leave for work,when for some reason I decided to turn on the TV and see what was going on. It was literally minutes after the first plane had hit, and it was just coming on the news. I sat rivited.
Once collected, I checked in with work again. My company was taking emergency precautions, as I suspose almost all companies located anywhere near the activities were. Worried not only for my safety (working near a potential target), but also about traffic and other issues I decided to work from home watching the network.
While I can't say I provided a lot of help, I did help insure that an IP network worked, and received several reports of people able to connect with loved ones over e-mail or instant messages when the phone system had failed them. On the one hand I don't feel that I did much, on the other hand I am proud that in my own way I was able to help people connect.
This is a dark day for America. Like most, I am angry, and at this time I can't get past that. While I want the government to be sure of the responsible parties, right now once they are found I think they should be punished in the most severe way possible, including a tatical nuclear strike, if appropriate. The death toll here appears to be as bad, or worse than Pearl Harbor, and I hope it doesn't take years of war to end it, this time.
May god have mercy on all of us.
Hemingway just used an excerpt for the title.
...but this quote needs to be said.
"An eye for an eye only leads to more blindness."
--Margaret Atwood
Went into my car, turned on the engine and started to pull away. Talk on the radio about a tower burning, a plane had crashed into it. Figured that it was a crash at an airport. At first I wondered why they weren't going to the normal morning talk show, probably because of the plane crash; I thought they'd stay with this story a little while, then move over to the normal news.
Suddenly, a voice full of panic and anxiety got on the radio. A second plane had crashed into the other tower at the World Trade Center. It hit me. Some asshole had decided to ram some planes and kill a lot of people. I listened in shock as I continued to work. Why the hell would someone want to do this?
I arrived to work to find, like eveyone else, eveyone there glued to teh TV, watching as the two magnificent towers smoldered. I was getting angry; there were innocent people in those towers, people who would never hurt a fly. Why are there such mean motherfuckers in the world?
My anger simered there as I worked, watching the news of what was going on at the same time. Suddenly, one of the towers collapsed. It brought me over the edge, I was cursing up a blue streak about the idiots who did this. A co-worker suggested I go outside, take a walk, get some fresh air, this was affecting me way too much.
The rational side of my mind agreed with that analysis and I went out for a walk, to allow my frustration to simmer down somewhat. I returned still angry and saddened at what happened, but in a much more rational state.
I proceeded to try to return to work, accomplishing a little before the news that the second tower had collapsed. By this point, I was angry, but I wasn't going to allow this to get to me any more than it already did.
Work continued. The tone in the office, which is normally fairly upbeat, was subdued and quiet. Everyone was in shock. Boss instructed to call the airline inquring about a flight for a business trip that was supposed to happen tomorrow. Probably cancelled at this point in time.
Driving home, everything seemed odd. Usually, the route I take to get home is fairly heavy with people, but this afternoon, it was incredibly light, about as light as it usually is when I leave in the morning. From the people I've talked to, the LA freeways are incredibly light, most people probably decided to use today as one of their personal days.
Sitting here right now, it seems eerie. I live right under the flight path of the Hawthorne Airport, and about a mile or two from LAX. With the grounding of all air traffic, everything seems too quiet. I've only lived in this apartment for about a week and a half, and it is already unusually silent, save the occasional car passing by.
Emotionally, I've still got that anger towards those who did this, may god use their souls as toilet paper. I also feel sorrow towards those who lost a loved one, a friend, a relative, or anyone close due to this attack. My thoughts are with all of you.
Latest I'm hearing is that they're already executing search warrents regarding this despicable act. I hope they find those responsible quickly, and that after a trial, are drawn and quartered
If god had intended you to be naked, you would have been born that way.
Although most of the footage was CNN based everybody would use whatever they could get their hands on, competitor or otherwise.
My thoughts are with the families
I can't verify what you say about beadonor.com, but it is pretty poorly constructed.
Redcross.org is back, but all they offer is a link to your local Red Cross chapter -- which may or may not have online donation information. Still, you can call them and find out a local place to go. Donation centers are backed up, so calling ahead is a good idea.
Some other useful information pages:
American Association of Blood Banks.
Google Blood Banks page.
Yahoo Blood Banks page.
This day is unfathomable. To sit at home and watch those two towers collapse. There are about 4-5 other buildings which are on the verge of collapse as well. Believe it or not it could've been much worse. When the towers collapsed they fell straight down. If you've ever stood under them it's almost overwhelming how large they were. If they fell to the side God knows how many additional buildings would've been demolished. The collapse literally could've demolished a few blocks.
My girlfriend lives on John street, about a 5-10 minute walk from the Trade Center. Two times when we were walking around there I specifically stopped my girlfriend and told her to look up and think of how catastrophic it would've been if the towers fell after the bombing a few years ago. How many would've been killed. When I discussed this with her I shook my head and thought to myself how truly terrible it would've been. Now it's come to pass.
Live shots of Manhattan show one big cloud. You can't even see many of the buildings. The NY skyline is going to be so different now. No World Trade Center! Another things that makes us New Yorkers think for a minute is that most of us likely know someone that works in the building. I know at least two. My next door neighbor is on the maintenance crew for the two towers. Amazingly he stayed home today to catch an appointment with his doctor. He was actually in the first World Trade Center bombing. Two of his friends were killed. Since then he's had a heart attack and can't really run. If he were there this time he might not have been able to breathe with all the dust. He wouldn't have been able to run. He'd likely be dead. Another friend of mine also was at home since he was on paternity leave... his wife just had a baby last thursday. My neighbor had a year until retirement. At this point, he'll likely take an early retirement. My other friend will likely need to look for a new job.
I live in Queens. I've been hearing the sirens of ambulances and fire trucks all day. It's sickening to think that they're all on their way toward the WTC. I work on 6th avenue in Manhattan, in midtown. I normally work from 10-6, and today was no exception. I also normally listen to the radio in the morning but today I got paged and had to hop on the computer and do a few things. Still have my Unix group's 24 hour on call pager from the first day I had it, which was last week waiting in line for Bjork Riverside Chapel standby tickets. I ate my breakfast and went on my way. Most of the people on the train seemed oblivious to the WTC tragedy. When I got to Queens Plaza while on the E train a few people that got on the train started talking about it. For those unfamiliar with NYC, the E train's last stop is right in the basement of the WTC. The trains stopped running for some time and we were left waiting on the train for about an hour. Finally we started walking from car to car to the front of the train, walked into another train, and yet another until we could finally get out at the 50th street station. Everyone was confused. People got off the train and were looking around, not knowing where to go or what to do. The conductor had no solutions for anyone, telling everyone that the one thing they couldn't do was use the train.
Once I emerged from the subway and onto the sidewalk there were crowds everywhere, as there normally is in NYC... but it felt different. Everyone was trying to make calls on their cell phone. No one could. There were huge lines at pay phones. Large groups of people were gathered around two cabs that were pulled over to the side of the street with their radios turned up all the way. Many people passing buy stopped to listen for awhile. I tried making a call on my cell phone unsuccessfully. I got in line at one of the payphones. Everyone was talking to everyone. Never in my life have I seen anything like this. New Yorkers are usually so busy, running to this or that. These people that are normally running around were walking slowly, talking to each other about the terrible tragedy. People that would usually pass each other on the street, off to their jobs or meetings, were all stopping to randomly talk with people. I was one of them. I only heard that a plane flew into one of the WTC towers. This was information from someone on the train that hadn't heard about the other plane crash. I just assumed it was one of those small commuter planes. Oh how wrong I was. When I spoke to the woman in the line before me she told me that there were 2 LARGE planes, one of which crashed into each tower. Both towers had collapsed. I got in line with the intention of telling my boss I was going to be late and whether or not I should go to the main office in NYC instead of hopping on a bus to Leonia, NJ (our data center). The moment I found out what actually happened I stepped out of line, took a couple breaths, and walked to my office building. Large groups of people congregated around small 2" screen televisions at delis and fruit stands. A huge crowd was standing outside of Fox News Channel's office, which had large tv's in each window.
Half of the people I knew in my building were standing outside, many of which approached me immediately to see if I knew about what had happened. I did. I spoke with them for a few minutes, all of us in shock, and then went upstairs. Almost the entire floor was in the lobby, watching the horror on tv. No one said anything. The cafeteria offered food to everyone for free. A nice gesture at such a terrible time. I ate, used the bathroom, and went back downstairs. We were told we could leave whenever we wanted. I left with someone else that lived in my area, fully prepared to WALK home. I never imagined I'd have to walk home. Everyone in the office was looking at maps when I was upstairs, wondering how they'd walk to their homes in Brooklyn and other boroughs. Luckily, someone mentioned that service leaving manhattan was gradually being restored. On the way out I saw my boss, a green card holder from mainland China. Someone that's usually so forceful and tenacious. He ran up to me... "Chris, I've got to get out of here. All these building are making me nervous." I asked him to come with my friend and I but he declined, saying he needed to stick around to speak to his boss first. As my friend and I were walking toward the subway we noticed a lot of people looking up. Not tourists mind you, native New Yorkers. Everyone was looking up. While still in shock my friend and I nervously joked about little things regarding work, often cutting ourselves off to talk more about the tragedy. The small talk about work quickly removed itself from the conversation, quickly to be replaced by more talk of the tragedy.
Then it happened. A large roaring sound... something that we normally don't pay much attention to, living in a large city and all. No one really pays attention to it. Just another sound to make up all the background noise that is NYC. My friend and I paid attention to it, as did everyone else on the street. It was a plane. Just an ordinary plane. Something we take for granted and use from time to time when we need to go certain places. Something that passes overhead in NYC with great frequency. Something that we normally don't pay any attention to. Today on that street everyone looked up toward the plane nervously.
The sound of planes is something that I normally don't notice. I don't anticipate feeling that way again for some time...
--Chris
goddamn man.
if slashdot would let me post a bunch of '.'
in a row, i would do it. there aint much to say,
sorry.
The greatest tragedy of today's events will be our failure to recognize their significance. The potential consequences of these events has placed each one of us in direct relationship to our own individual deaths. These events question the foundations of our belief. The anwsers to this question lie in the Real. The answers are right where you are standing. Believe it. We are all dying here. Accept your fate. The Real is immanent. God is great.
I go to stevens college in hoboken nj, and from there you have the best view of the city, both empire and WTC. I took some pictures of the tragedy, if you want to see them go to http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~mphipps/
I'm sure everyone was as shocked bewildered and amazed as I was when they heard the news of todays events. I woke up to hear the news on NPR this morning and thought it was a very, very. bad dream.
Even after listening to the news all day and watching our President address the nation, its still seems faraway and surreal. I just urge people to maintain restraint. Don't do anything rash or violent. We need to focus towards our nation, donate blood and all those other things that people have suggested.
However, I am mad, violently pissed off. Imagine the gall of some asshole terrorist crashing an Airliner into a building full of civilians. The Pentagon, that's a cowardly act, but it is a military target. But New York City? Thats unadulterated murder of thousands of innocents. I think that we as Americans need to urge our leadership to fight terror with terror. For every innocent American life lost today, 10 cowardly bastards need to die.
We were not at war with these people, we merely were attempting to assist in resolving a age old conflict. Any American who doesn't think this is totally inexcusable and needs to be reacted to carefully, and explosively violently needs to move to Bagdad or Islamabad. I hope our political leadership responds in such a manner that this never happens again.
Terrorist are cowards and bullies, and as one who has experinced bullying, I say hurt them back. Hurt them ten times as much as they hurt us. Make the hole damn place these people came from a radioactive parking lot. Some one once said it most eloquently: fuck the fucking fuckers. I hope to hear the aircraft from the military base right next to my house take off in the next week on a "Global Power" mission. This is insane. People need to die for this. Remember people pray today for all the injured, pitch in if you can. Tomorrow, we will seek a resolution, and God will judge them.
Rule of Life Number 2: Remember, it can all go to hell at any minute. --Jimmy Buffet
I haven't seen much from people who were in the Pentagon (maybe /. is not the most popular website for Pentagon employees.) I was in the Pentagon when the plane hit this morning. About 10 minutes before it hit, I had been in an office on the side of the building where the plane went in watching the news coverage of the WTC attacks. Ironically while we watched, we discussed how vulnerable the Pentagon was to that kind of attack since it was right on the flight path to National Airport (although the plane that hit turned out to have come from Dulles.) I was on the other side of the building by the time it happened and didn't even hear it. I came out of another office and saw a lot of people moving very purposefully down the corridor towards the building exit. I didn't see any signs of panic as mentioned in a few of the news stories. The people in the office that I had left before the crash all got out. They heard the explosion and saw flames over the roof of the next section of the building and evacuated immediately.
While I was in line at Pentagon City Mall waiting to use the payphone to tell my wife I was alive, several of the other people in line were discussing what had happened. One was a Navy officer whose office was on an upper floor of the D-ring (the second outermost ring) of the side that was struck, and other than noticing how loud the explosion was he hadn't known just how close he was to where the plane went in. Another guy was outside on the side where the plane went in. He said it was so low that it clipped a light pole on the way in. He was the first source where I heard that the plane struck the ground just short of the building (or it might have been much worse.) He also said that a lot of the fire problems were probably because the side hit had an emergency generator with a large diesel tank (thus the thick black smoke early in the fire.) Several people who left the building before I did reported hearing a secondary explosion which might have been the diesel tank going up. I met back up with some other people I knew a bit later. They had been in a snack bar on the A Ring (the innermost ring) of the Pentagon and heard a not very loud bang, looked down the corridor toward the outside of the building, saw smoke, and crossed the courtyard to leave the other side of the building. The only (somewhat) good news was the plane struck on the side of the building where a section that had just been renovated met the next section to be renovated, so not everyone had moved into the renovated section and some people had already been moved out of the other section. That had to have reduced the death toll. Other than that, waiting around looking for a way to get home, I learned a lot less about what was happening than the people at home with TV and internet news.
As far as the emergency response, I was very impressed. You have about 5 different police jurisdictions around the Pentagon and the police very rapidly arrived to direct cars away from the area to allow emergency vehicles through and weren't getting in each other's way. There were fire trucks arriving on the scene before I got out of the building, but after the nearby units had arrived the traffic snarl up slowed the arrival of more distant units.
I work in a federal building essentially next to the White House, and today was simply unreal. By the time I got into work, the first 3 crashes had already taken place, but there was still confusion about exactly what had happened. Both towers were still standing, but the first thing I heard from a coworker was that the WTC had been bombed, and that they were in ruins. It's hard to describe the effect that news like that has on you. She then said there was a fire or bomb or something (no one knew yet) at the Pentagon.
I stopped into an office with a TV and watched about 15 seconds of CNN, which was showing smoke with what looked like the Old Executive Office Building in front, which scared us all even more, since that's even closer to us.
The next thing I knew, there were people running in the halls saying that the building was supposed to be evacuated. I hadn't even made it to my desk yet, but just turned around and walked back to the Metro. The streets were surreal, some people were obviously trying to get out of there (but everyone was relatively calm), while others (mostly tourists) were just standing around. There was an almost-constant stream of police cars, black secret service SUVs, and so on, going back and forth on Pennsylvania Ave, so I was hearing sirens for my whole 10 minute walk to the Metro. It didn't feel real, but it sure seemed to be.
I also kept trying to bring up cnn.com on my phone as I walked, but got nowhere. I also tried calling other coworkers in the building to make sure they'd heard of the evacuation, but again, the cells were jammed with the call volume. I did get cnn.com up just before I got to the Metro, but could only see the breaking story of something going on at the state department, and then they were unreachable again.
The worst part was that I still didn't really know any details and had heard lots of rumors. Eventually I was able to bring up cnn.com half the time as I rode and get the basic story, and then one-line "breaking" items that just kept piling up:
Some of those turned out to be false (though even now I keep hearing that there were incidents at the State Dept and the Capital Building, but no details), but the sense of dread at just seeing one horrifying one-liner after another was really scary.
By that point I'd gotten back to my apartment and stared at the TV for the next 5 or 6 hours. The worst part was the the lack of information downtown, and the complete sense of fear, uncertainty, and panic, and that everything had suddenly changed.
The solution is emergency override from a remote location for all aircraft controls. This would eliminate the threat of an airplane hijacking being any more of a danger than to the passengers.
additionally, procedures for obviously direct deviations from pre-defined flight paths which immediatly include air force presence would help - but shooting down a plane isn't a savory thought.
after today, I swear to god that if I am ever unfortunate enough to be on a hijacked plane, I will give my life to try and incapacitiate the attackers. I think many Americans feel the same.
Jesse Wolfe Sr. Manager Systems Integration
Well, as long as all of this gives you a chuckle, I guess it's alright...you need to spend some time reflecting on what happened here, and if you still feel that jokes are appropriate, reflect some more.
Tens of thousands of peoples' lives were ruined today. Ruined. Think about that.
Looking at the NYC skyline this morning was horrifying. I first learned of the attack on the radio, I was in shock and couldn't believe it...
Until I looked across the water and saw a huge cloud of smoke covering the area where the WTC once stood. It was a utterly eerie sight.
So do international flights to and from the US. That domestic flights don't is, sadly, the flaw in the plan.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
It's very likley that none of the people on these planes had any clue that the hijackers were going to deliberatly crash the plane (especially not into a large building with lots of people). Think about it - do you really believe that the hijackers would take control of the plane, and then over the PA announce to everyone "We're going to crash the plane now, so buckle up please". That would have encouraged the people to attack them.
It's much more likely that they assumed control of the plane and yelled "don't try to be a hero and you'll get out of this alive". If I were a kamakazi hijacker, that's exactly what I'd say.
I bet everyone in the planes were more concerned with not getting themselves shot/stabbed and that they'd get through it alive.
What's today's date ? 9/11 Sound like an emergency number, 911, isnt it ? Yeah, the world is in the state of emergency now.. God please help us.
Hi,
I'm sending this letter to everybody in my address book. I'm sure everybody knows about the terrorist attacks on our country. What some of you might not know is that people in other countries celebrated the devastating attacks on thousands of lives in our country. This was shown on television.
I have never heard of Americans, or people of any *civilized* country for that matter, celebrating the deaths of so many thousands of *innocent* lives. I wish to point out that these same people--the ones who are celebrating right now--benefit from millions or billions of dollars of American money sent to them as foreign aid. The thought of these scumbags celebrating the deaths of those who support them disgusts me beyond belief. I am writing letters to folks in our state and federal governments, urging them to cut off monetary support for these countries. This will serve two purposes:
1. The money should be used to help those who lost family or friends to the disaster.
2. Cutting off foreign aid to these countries serves as a very mild punishment for their celebrating of the death and destruction in our country. If they celebrate our deaths, let them starve for lack of food and money.
I urge you to write similar letters, and to urge your family, friends and neighbors to do the same. The time has come to punish those who would have us slaughtered.
So I was at seminary, just leaving for my house to go to school.
Derrick informs me that the wtc has been hit by planes or some such,
which he heard just before showing up at 6:30 local time. (15 mins after
the incidents.) I get home and hear from my mom that the Pentagon and
what-all else have been hit and bombed and evacuated.
I proceed at this time to my school, where the only topic of conversation
is --you guessed it-- the "incident.
I hang out in Mr. Sanders' room (coolest teacher around), and we poke the
internet for updates. He has no luck with the NY Times and such, and I quickly
suggest slashdot. I am mildly amused that CmdrTaco seems to be in the same
trouble. Well, I read some comments on the first article, and we remember
that Mr. Sanders has a radio in his office. As we turn it on, the bell rings
and I proceed to my first hour.
The 'Announcements Lady' comes on the intercom, and gives a brief,
pseudocoherent synopsis to those, if any, who are still clueless. She also
declares the school to be 'on code yellow'. (We got this hilariously
melodramatic nomenclature just after Columbine.)
Trust stupid people to pick today of all days to make a bomb threat to the
high school. Sheesh. Last time we got one, they searched us all with metal
detectors and junk. Anyway, they spend the time that we are locked into our
first classes thoroughly searching the Gymnasium and A-building. No bombs
there, so they herd us class-by-class into the gym. Of course, they forget
all about the band room for ten minutes after everyone is already there.
Figures. (Incidentally, the librarian used the last few minutes in our
classroom to play the beginning of 'channel one'-- a current events
program used by our homeroom classes. Their top story was something about
the Oldsmobile being discontinued or something. Hilarious.)
So they crowd us all into the gym, and conduct a quick, thorough, and
efficient search of the premises and lockers. They dismiss us by building
to our second hour classes. Mine is Calculus. Absolutely uneducational.
The teacher sensed that it was a lost cause. The school wired up ABC news
to the TV system (which we were hoping for when we caught channel one),
and most classes had that playing most of the time. Physics and English
got halfway back into the swing of things, but after that are all of my
soft classes. I fell asleep in homeroom, and didn't make it to my
library-aide period until a few minutes late.
Anyway, that's my story.
No, that was by John Donne. Hemingway used that
for his book.
Out of this tragedy, I can only hope that something
good will happen - that the United States Government
realizes that it has to represent and protect the
interests of it's PEOPLE, not the multinational
corporations with their economic policies that continue
to rape the earth.
What should have happened was that the terrorists should
have taken an empty plane and then rammed it into
an empty WTC. Unfortunately, they were too successful
in their attack and we will exact our vengeance.
http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/09/11/2 048256&mode=nocomment
"Time is an abstract concept devised by carbon-based lifeforms to monitor their ongoing decay." - Thundercleese
A mirror of this site should be online in a few minutes soon here (pardon the current mess).
Got Rhinos?
that would require a re-write of the code, i don't believe its an option anywhere....
I needed a laugh today
"There will be a great thunder,Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb, The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
The two strongest precautions I've seen suggested that could be taken by airlines are firstly, an armed presence on each plane. Secondly, a segregated cockpit. Firstly, if an officer were so trained in the special circumstances of having a firearm in an airplane present, all the cardboard cutters in the world wouldn't have meant the successful capture of a plane. Secondly, a segregated cockpit would indeed leave the pilot with a tough decision, if the lives of his crew and passengers were at risk, and yesterday I would have probably put my mind towards some other solution, however today's events have made an irrefragable fact that the numbers on board, no matter their number, must be risked and sacrificed, if neccesary, if it means avoiding something even shallowly resembling today's Events. The pilot should not have the vulnerability, nor should he have the power to make the choice between a slaughtered cabin and an annihilated ground-target. If you take the choice away from the pilot, as well as make the cockpit impenetrable, hijacking would not have the appeal, no the deathtoll, as it did today. If anyone can point out an inconsistency, don't hesitate to tear me up. -Steve
I live in Dearborn, MI... the largest population of arabic, muslem, islamic, and other middle-eastern cultures outside of the middle east. The ignorance that these people posses is astounding. After my highschool classes, walking out to go home, I listened in shock as a middle-eastern (dont know if he's islamic, arabic, or whatever) student commented with enthusiam to his friends, "Yea bro, we got the Trade Center!" Later in a local Applebees, a large group of arabic students were gathered for lunch. The restaurant was filled with the mocking and poking fun of the bombings that just recently occurred... I couldn't finish my meal.
Whatever views you have concerning the middle eastern culture... whatever they may be, just remember the overwhelming percentage that have the exact mentality of the terrorists that planned and carried out the events that happened earlier today....
I was having breakfast at a Cafe just above the PATH station. About three stories underground directly under WTC 1, the "north tower" that was the first one struck. I thought it was a train derailing or hitting a wall and I quickly picked up my juice and walked toward the escalators. As I stood up the fire alarms went off, looking up I saw what I thought was smoke. (There was renovation down there, it was probably just plaster dust kicked up by the impact.) Four cops bolted toward the escalators shouting "out of the way!"
When I got to the top of the escalators there were at least two cops directing people out of the building, not with "Stay Calm, go slow" but with "Keep it moving, Faster!" I heard another cop, as I got near a side exit I don't normally use, yelling at a security guard, "It wasn't a BOMB! It was an airplane!" I was thinking that was spin control or something. I stepped outside and there was a smattering of debris. It looked like a vacant lot around an abandoned building, cinder block-like debris. It took me five seconds to realize that that meant I probably should be walking faster, it seemed to take other people a lot more time to realize.
When I got across the street I looked up and saw about 2/3 or the way up the north side that the WTC was on fire, from corner to corner, in an oval reaching two or three stories down and five or six up. Not a lot of smoke, but a wall of fire. I walked around East toward the subway I use, and looked up to see that the East side was almost identically damaged, but with less damage. Sheets of ash were floating down like a hundred giants' notebooks had been ripped apart and thrown to the wind. I got about a block away and stood (next to the cemetary at the oldest church in NYC) looking up. I was thinking that I needed to get to work and start making phone calls that I was okay, but I was rivited. After about five minutes I saw a body falling from the tower and I walked, shaking, to the 4-5 train which I took on the 20 minute trip uptown.
When I got off at 60th street, 80 blocks away, I could see a dense clouds of smoke. There is a brokerage downstairs from my office, and I stopped to watch some footage. People said "A second plane hit the WTC" on TV, which I didn't believe. They showed the footage and it was horrifying.
A friend and I were IMing (phones were down, but no problem with the internet, other than to news sites.) At one point she said "You have no idea how strange the skyline looks with only one tower!" She apparently had an amazing view of the scene.
Can someone please explain to me the people that were cheering in the streets? Wow, that made my blood boil.
Do they fully understand what happened? Surely, by their own standards those people were good people and wouldn't wish the death of thousands of innocent people would they?
If we retaliate by leveling their countries, are we any better than them? I'm kind of split right now, but I think Bush did the right thing by warning countries that harbored terrorists that they were in danger.
We should go get them and make them pay tenfold. That's what we did to Japan and look at how well Japan came back with a civilized government and people.
Personally, I'm wondering if tomorrow could possibly be the last day on earth? All it would take is a full scale nuclear war. Send one nuke and everyone retailiates. Is it anymore improbable than two planes hitting two towers of the WTC?
I'm glad to see our nation uniting and that people are willing to help by giving blood and saying prayers, but one thing that disturbs me (and I'm not trying to troll here) is why are they only trusting in God now in the time of trouble? Will God even hear the prayers of people that have been living their lives in sin and not obeying him for years?
I don't know, but could someone with knowledge on the subject explain to me about the people cheering in the streets waving their flags? What is their mentality? Why do they hate the United States?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
They will pay a price, have no worries about that.
The Palestinians had built up a fair bit of good will before the peace process. People were starting to see them as victims of Israel.
Then they rejected the best deal they're ever going to get, and they returned to the practice of sending their children forth to do battle with armed soldiers. Public opinion shifted soon afterward back to Israel.
Now, though, laughing and celebrating, alone in the world, while even Afghanistan is condemning the attack...they've blown it, once and for all. No Palestinian cause will ever be taken seriously by Americans again.
I have taken their side in several online debates in the past, but I never will again. As far as I'm concerned, piss on Palestine. Sharon can send in the tanks and take them all out and you won't hear a peep about it from me.
"It must have been Osama Bin Laden," one said. I wonder how much this person knows about Osama Bin Laden other than the fact that the State Department made him boogeyman of the year a while back.
Osama Bin-Laden owns an airfield in Afghanistan where pilots are trained on jumbo jets for terrorist acts. Did you see the precision with which those two planes hit the towers? I've never flown a 767, but I used to be a private pilot, and I seriously doubt that Joe Shmoe Terrorist off the streets of Palestine would have been able to take over the controls and fly these planes in like that. These guys had training in commercial aviation, and you're talking some big bucks there. That narrows it down to a select group of terrorist organizations that they could have come from, and Bin Laden is on that list.
I'm amazed at how easy it is to fly with a knife, especially one that's not just a swiss army knife.
Shirley lots of slashdotters have tales of being able to fly with full network-installing (especially cable-installing) kits in carryon? I imagine you can kill someone pretty dead with a screwdriver, if you're desperate enough.
You just have to profile right. I, the short female sort, never got messed with when I had a purse full of technological toys, but my tech, a biker type, didn't get to bring a Black and Decker *electric* screwdriver. (It was wise of them, but not for the reasons they thought... he'd be liable to use it to take the plane apart just out of curiosity...)
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
A Picture of celebrating Palestinians
The terrorists onboard manage to swiftly disable/kill the pilots and put their man in the pilot's seat. (This is the most likely explanation; an airline pilot would have to know where the plane was going and what it was going to hit, and would have committed suicide or crashed his plane first since he was going to die anyway.)
Now, with a terrorist in charge, why wouldn't the passengers simply attack the men with knives and take them out? Simple. The terrorists tell them "We're hijacking this plane and flying it to <middle eastern location of your choice>. If nobody gets out of hand you'll all be let go/kept safe as soon as we land. But we terrorists are not afraid to die! If you resist, we will set this plane on a collision course with the ground." Furthermore, the terrorists can be as friendly as possible to the people on board to calm them.
In short, they lie to the passengers and make it sound like sitting back is the safe and reasonable thing to do. The terrorists have absolutely no reason to let the passengers know what's really going to happen to them at the end of the flight. And the passengers have very little reason to suspect it. When has this ever happened before?
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
There have been a few miraculous developments- one girl's father missed his train for the first time and wasn't able to get to his WTC office this morning. One of my friend's father was going to fly on one of the crashed Boston planes this morning, but got a cheaper tickets at the last minute. My own uncle had his 8:30am meeting next door to the WTC postponed at the last minute, and he saw the explosions from Staten Island instead.
At the same time, there has been great tragedy. The entire family of one student was on one of the doomed flights. Mass at 12 noon saw the Chapel completely packed, with a lot of teary faces, almost certain that they knew someone who died.
Today has been a surreal experience, like that directly out of some action flick starring Jean Claude VD. Let's just take this time to mourn.
I woke up late this morning, and I was a little bit hung over. I logged into the computer to send an email to my coworkers. My boyfriend tells me to check the news. I turn on the tv, and within seconds, I see, live, the second plane plowing into the building.
It was hard to kind of understand what is going on, and how I would catch something a plane hitting a building, on live tv, but yet having been asked to see what was going on, and smoke was already on the screen. It was confusing.
But I have a headache. I really really don't want to talk about this for the next two weeks.
++ Guns don't protect people; people protect people. Also, thermonuclear bombs don't kill people - people do. ++
You contradict your own point, when you say When that asshole shot up the train on Long Island a few years ago, he was able to reload TWICE before the people on the train realized that he wasn't going to spare anyone if he could help it, and jumped him. Why do I say that? Because it isn't having a weapon which would help in such a crisis, it's knowing what to do. If you must, call for mandatory anti-terrorist training -- not more guns. I consider the attitude of the US gun lobby to be insane. There ain't no scalping Redskins no more (just peaceful ones locked up in Reservations). That war was won long ago, but that was the reason for the oft vaunted "right to bear arms". (sorry, getting off the point)
One of the scary things about this is, apart from the sabre-rattling of the shortsighted George W., is the long-term effect this could have on US society -- a mindset of fear and rage and "let's get them before they get us" could be just as devastating as the eroding of freedoms in the name of the "war against terrorism".
-=- Say it with flowers. Send a Triffid. -=-
QED
And why, exactly, would de-pressurization of the plane matter, at all?
If all the people on the plane are going to die -- far better for those deaths to be the *only* deaths. And if no one can breathe, then no one is going to be able to control a flight *into* an occupied area. Now, it might land there randomly, anyway, but not nearly as likely.
And if the terrorist isn't trying to destroy hundreds or thousands of lives, then he doesn't need to fly the plane by himself, and so will be willing to submit to a demand of the pilot making a controlled, safe, landing, if pressured at gunpoint.
Not that that isn't the only possible solution, there are better. Someone mentioned a very thick metal shield separating the cockpit from the passenger cabin, with no access between them. Doesn't seem like a bad idea, at first evaluation. Other ideas would include buttons located in many many places on the airplane that would activate automatic, pre-recorded messages to the effect that the plane is no longer in full control of the pilot. Which, if pressed, with no further contact with airline authorities, would be sure sign that the pilot was dead, or being forced not to engage in further contact. If this was made public knowledge, then any hijacker with demands not including the plane flying into something would certainly allow the pilot to contact air line authorities to cancel the imminent military action. (and obviously, that cancel would only be in effect for as long as the pilot continued to have uninterrupted radio contact)
A further possibility would be to deliberately engineer a partial-self destruct mechanism -- give the pilot the ability to blow the engines off the plane and deploy a parachute of some kind. Yes, while the parachute in many cases would be unable to save the lives of the people in the plane, and the plane could still land on an occupied area -- it is far better than the likely outcomes of allowing a hijacker to take the controls.
Even better would be giving the pilots the ability to complete destroy the navigational and control equipment; so that the plane becomes totally un-guidable. As soon as it is known that hijacker is present, point the plane at the nearest ocean, and destroy all of the controls. (and presumably activate an automatic message reporting that, which couldn't be turned off).
Or, altneratively, bank the plane into a hard turn, engage any other braking mechanisms, cut off all the fuel, and destroy all the controls. The plane will slow down as it turns (because it isn't giving itself forward thrust to compensate) and will slowly descend into the ground. It'll be a crash-landing, but better than many alternatives. And in the cases where it is possible to make a safe-landing, it is still possible to make a safe-landing -- the would-be hijacker simply must make it clear to the pilot (very quickly) that that is all he/she wants. If the hijacker does not with to preserve his/her own life -- then one can quickly presume all on the flight as good as dead.
--Lilior
That was the first thing that I thought of...
"I wonder if it was a bunch of crazy Americans or if it was a bunch of crazy Muslims."
The only thing that makes me think it wasn't any Americans is because we look out for ourselves and it's not our style to do suicide missions.
However, the thing that makes me think it wasn't any Muslims is because they didn't have guns. I just hope that someone can bring light to everything and we will see justice.
I'm not a racist person, but after seeing those people on TV today cheering about innocent American's being killed, I've got to admit that I felt a bit of blood lust and wouldn't have had a problem dropping a 757 on them.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
You can donate money to the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund online by clicking here...
------
www.moneybythenumbers.com
We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here Also feel free to send anything in...
11:00 PM EST - CBS TV in NY is reporting that a van was stopped on the George Washington Bridge with enough explosives to take down the bridge, and that two people are in custody.
Bush is a cylon.
Today went along like any other day in high school. Our school goes in blocks so at about 9:00 pm CST block 1 ends. Today, ironically, we happened to have a fire drill. This proceeded normally but when I went to my 2nd block history class I noticed something was wrong. Teachers and students were huddled around the TV mounted on the ceiling of the room staring blindly. I asked someone what was wrong and they said that a plane had crashed into the WTC and that the building had just collapsed. I didn't know how to respond to this. We watched the events unfold and saw the second building collapse live. By now other classes had filed into our little classroom, some kids were starting to cry. During the passing period I saw one of my close friends crying her eyes out because her brother worked near the WTC. My peers and I kept repeating that it seemed surreal, something out of a movie. This is the first really tragic event to occur during our lifetime. My parent's generation always speaks of when President Kennedy died and how they will always remember where they were when it happened. I can tell you that I will never forget how I saw these events unfold and that this is a story I will be telling my grandchildren.
Well put. This is not a matter of bringing criminal to justice. Most of them are dead anyway. We need to make sure this cannot happen again.
For Canadians, visit Canadian Blood Services
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
censorship in any form, of any media reguardless of the content being censored is an outrage. not allowing citizens to make their own decisions based on the true and unedit facts gives the censors the power to control the minds of the citizens
Hooboy.
t ml?pjid=408240
t ml?pjid=408240
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I just opened my latest PJ Scout email (I signed up when I left the airline (boy, am I glad I'm not there now) three years ago and have never figured out how to turn it off), and it started out like this, no lie, cue Twilight Zone music:
Here are the jobs that matched for this week:
1) Catastrophe Modeling Specialist
http://www.nationjob.com/pjshowjob.cgi/jjhl2688.h
Jacobson Associates, Job Location is Midwest
2) Catastrophe Modeling Specialist
http://www.nationjob.com/pjshowjob.cgi/jjhl2694.h
Jacobson Associates, Job Location is Midwest
3) Catastrophe Modeling Specialist
http://www.nationjob.com/pjshowjob.cgi/jjhl2695.h
Jacobson Associates, Job Location is Midwest
4) Network Administrator
(and so on with more normal stuff)
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
She stayed up to wake me up for my weekly 9:30 meeting (i didn't sleep until 3am). At about 8:30 CST she woke me up and told me
"A plane just crashed into one of the twin towers"
i'm like, "Whhaat?" (just waking up w/ no sleep)
she turns on _any_channel_ on the little tv on top of my dresser, which only gets bad reception of network channels. I saw the two building in flames, i just laid there stunned. about 5 min latter we got news that the pentagon was hit as well. 30 min latter we saw the first building fall, my girl friend shoke in fear.
-
this is my sig.
Perhaps this also needs to be said:
"I fear that we have done nothing but awoken a sleeping giant."
--Isoroku Yamamoto, WW2 Japanese General; accuracy of this quote is suspect
"Nekubi o kaite was ikenai" ("It does not do to slit the throat of a sleeping man.")
-- Actual quote
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
If you had paid attention during the actual election, you might have noticed that bush actually did win with the most number of votes. It was the people in florida that fucked it all up.
I suggest that next time, we try not to count "pregnant" ballots, and get people that are competent enough to count. (then there would have been no question about bush winning). Or how about the liberal news media falsifying the election status? And maybe while we are at it, we can fix the fact that in many inner cities, the polls were open PAST the cut-off time.
I'm assuming that the United States is in the right and the people cheering on TV are in the wrong. Hopefully that's a valid assumption.
The way I see it we only have a few options:
1. Kill them all.
2. Try to wait it out and hope that they don't keep attacking.
3. Take out their leaders.
What else can we do? If we take out their leaders, won't new ones just step up to bat, possibly more ignorant than the original?
If we level them they will hate us even more for the short term. Maybe they'd love us for it in the long run.
Do we have the capability to level them without nuclear power?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
There ain't no scalping Redskins no more (just peaceful ones locked up in Reservations). That war was won long ago, but that was the reason for the oft vaunted "right to bear arms".
Hate to jump into a tangent like this, but that is a bit off. Read the papers and journals of the founding fathers. They express fear and concern about a federal government growing too strong, and the Second Amendment is one of the primary checks against the that happening. Many of the men who drafted the Bill of Rights argued about the first and second Amendments, not about their validity or neccesity, but about their order. The Rights acknowledged as belonging to the People against the Gorvernment by the Second Amendment are what protect the Rights acknowledged by all the other Amendments, and as such many felt that the right to "Keep and Bear Arms" without infringement should be the First on the list.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Okay then, how about this:
Should we be giving the Jews money when that will be seen as entering a 3,300 year-old conflict?
On this particular issue they're both nuts! They've been killing each other since the time of the Pharoahs! What does this have to do with the U.S.? Do we walk into bars and take part in any fight that is happening there?
The U.S., and all those who hate violence, should take very strong action. But the action must be designed to cure the problem of highly-conflicted, mentally de-centered people. Whatever that is, it must be more sophisticated than violence.
Bush's education improvements were
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
This is quick and rough, but, well, take it for what it's worth.
... I was in there for maybe 30 seconds. Someone came running out of the Pentagon (the bus depot is right next to the building, and there's a direct, underground entrance from the Pentagon to the Metro stop). He yelled something like "get out", then "get out of the building". I turned to look, wondering what was going on. Then he said "there's a bomb ..." and something else I can't remember.
My bus was running late - technical problems forced them to switch buses, then traffic delayed me a bit longer. I got off at the Pentagon as usual, and down into the Metro (subway) stop. Past the gate, onto the platform
I hesitated for a second, wondering whether to believe him, then people started rushing towards the gate. I joined the rush, jumped the gate, and ran towards the escalators. There was a bit of confusion as people started running up the up, down, and stopped (for maintenance) escalators. As I ran, I was thinking that this was a bomb *threat*, and that I had to get out before it went off. Scared? Oh, yeah.
At the top of the escalator, the first thing I noticed was the smell of smoke, and more people rushing away from the building, both from the bus depot and from the Pentagon itself. It wasn't a blind panic - nobody was screaming, or sprinting for cover, but everyone was moving fast. Then as I moved out from under the covered area of the depot, I looked up and saw a huge cloud of smoke billowing from the Pentagon. I couldn't see flames or damage, since I was on the opposite side of the building.
It wasn't immediately obvious whether it was a bomb, accidental explosion, or something else. As I continued moving through the parking lot, I ran into someone who had pulled his car over and was standing looking at the smoke. He said that people were reporting it as a bomb, but that he had seen a plane - an American Airlines plane, pretty big, maybe a 727 or bigger, fly in low and crash into the back of the building.
Considering the proximity of the Pentagon to the airport, I thought this was just a tragic accident.
A few moments later, as he was talking to someone else and I continued on through the lot, trying to call my office on my cell phone (useless, of course, since all circuits were busy), I overheard two other people talking - one said "I was just saying that the Pentagon was the number two target." The other said something about a bomb, and I told them what I had heard. One said "yes, they used two planes at the World Trade Center." That was the first I had heard of it. That's also when I was sure that this was no accident.
People were continuing to stream out of the building and across the lot in all directions. No rescue personnel were on the scene yet - maybe three minutes had passed since the plane hit. I still couldn't get a call out, and others in the area had the same problem. I stopped to talk briefly to a few people, but kept on going towards Crystal City, which is far enough away to be relatively safe, and has payphones.
I stopped first in a hotel, and after a 15 minute wait got to a phone. I called my wife, reassured her that I was OK, and got off quickly, since the line was still long behind me. I went in search of less busy phones. As I was walking up towards the Costco store, there was a second explosion behind me. I hadn't heard any planes, and couldn't tell if it was part of the attack or just some fuel tanks going off. Around me, some people on foot and in cars were moving out as quickly as possible. Some who had been farther away from the Pentagon were standing around and watching, trying to see what was going on. Some who had clearly been in or near the building were consoling eachother, hugging, talking, and trying desperately to get calls out.
I eventually found my way to another hotel, where I failed to get calls out, hung out in the bar, where the TVs reported the news that the twin towers had fallen. A little while later I heard that the Metro was running again, and made my way home.
"Is it because you're American and too dumb to do anything except believe the shit that CNN dribbles into your ears?"
--Hmmm... im detecting some penis envy here...
Anyway, you fuckin moron, I've been watchin BBC and they're dribbling the same "shit" into my ears... Ignorance plagues the entire world, and it seems to have started with you....
My friend was taking a training class on the 61st floor of the south tower. (The one hit by the second plane.) He said that when the first plane hit the first tower, he walked out of the training room and across the building to an observation area where he could see pieces of paper falling to the ground. It was almost like snow. He looked up and saw fire and black smoke. Imediately security began ordering people to evacuate. My friend climbed from the 61st floor to the 35th floor when the second plane hit his building. He said that the building shook 30 feet in either direction. He thought he was doomed.
My friend did manage to get to the lobby area and said that it appeared like a bomb had gone off in there as the turn styles that you go through to get in the building were blackened and twisted.
My friend got out of the building with about 30 minutes to spare. He was very lucky, but said that there were lots of people unable to go down the stairs because they were old or handicapped.
I watched the buildings fall down from my vantage point on 63rd st. It was very scary.
The most difficult part of this whole thing is coming to terms with the fact that 10,000 people just died less than 80 blocks from where I live.
I was hoping for a strong condemnation of the people who did this, an emotional expression of the nation's sorrow, and a stirring call-to-arms.
.30 per gallon in some areas. Do you want pure chaos? I think his speech was short, and it got right to the point. The United States is going to search for the group(s) responsible, and if found, will take the appropriate action.
boy thats an intelligent idea.............
if he did that, the american public would be in a state of panic. As it is the gas prices rose about
I think we're going to lay waste to the middle east.
I think Bush will do it right this time.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
that, to be offensive in any way is the last thing I intend.
But... they just showed some up close footage of what's left of the WTC on NBC. Some of the superstructure is still standing upright, in a beautiful fan-like pattern. They should preserve it, as sculpture, as a monument to this day. If you see the footage on TV, you might see what I mean.
I don't believe in God, but I said a little prayer today.
Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
Any country that harbors them is as good as the terrorist themselves right?
What benefit do they have to protect terrorists?
What stops a government from forming terrorist groups and harboring them so that they can attack us without retaliation?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Veangence, not justice.
But of course, those who think only with their weapons can't think of anything better. Beating up Muslims won't bring back the dead. And it won't make you feel any better either. <sarcasm> Yes, yes, giving in to the savage will really make the world a better place! </sarcasm>
-=- Say it with flowers. Send a Triffid. -=-
When we cheered over here, it wasn't because innocent civilians were killed, it was because we were beating Saddam. (sp?)
They were shouting "Praise god" correct? What exactly were they cheering for? Who is their enemy? George Bush? Innocent Americans?
Maybe you are right and there is no difference, but I kind of still feel like there is a big difference.
What 'god' do they serve? I've heard people claim that their 'god' and our almighty God are the same being but after today I definately am convinced that they are not.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right& th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&seekm=3b8fd177%40monitor.lanse t.com#link1
Apparently someone was stating that something like this was going to happen. I guess 'Big Brother' doesn't do too much scanning of public boards.
New York firefighters, impelled by instinct and training, rushed to the World Trade Center yesterday to evacuate victims. Then the buildings fell down. The firefighters never came out.
More than 100 were unaccounted for, possibly making this the worst disaster in the New York Fire Department's history, explosions having collapsed the two main towers onto the first wave of rescuers as they snaked through stairwells and hallways. In the tumult, the temporary command center set up on a nearby street to deal with the calamity was buried in a rolling wave of concrete chunks.
Among those who died there were Chief of Department Peter J. Ganci, and First Deputy Fire Commissioner William M. Feehan. Also killed was one of the department's Roman Catholic chaplains, Michael F. Judge, who had rushed to the scene to comfort victims.
There was no trace of three of the fire department's most elite units, Rescues 1, 2 and 4, officials said last night.
A police official said last night that some officers at the scene were also unaccounted for, but "we don't have numbers." The official denied reports of 60 missing officers from the department's Emergency Services Unit, and 18 from the Brooklyn North Task Force.
Police officials said that as the day unfolded, several officers who had been presumed lost had surfaced. "The numbers are not that extravagant," said Assistant Chief Thomas P. Fahey. As night deepened, officials were able to bring in cranes and heavy shovels to begin moving rubble in hopes of finding survivors. At the same time, they had to contend with several fires that were still burning in adjacent buildings, officials said.
But hours earlier, the notion of a rescue effort seemed remote.
"We will be lucky if we don't lose 200 or 300 guys," said Michael Carter, the vice president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, who was on the scene. "There are entire companies we can't find. At this point, it's less of a firefighting operation and more like a war."
Like dazed and bloodied soldiers, thousands of firefighters and police officers wandered helplessly throughout the afternoon and evening on the West Side Highway, blocked by the danger of further catastrophe from attempting to enter the scene. Officials feared the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, another high-rise burning in the complex. It finally fell in the early evening.
By 9 a.m., about 200 firefighters had already arrived at the scene, many of them racing up stairways to reach people trapped on the upper floors, fire officials said. Many of the rescuers were from six-person units that specialize in building collapses, and many are now missing, presumed to have died when the buildings collapsed.
Marite Anez, who was working in an office on the 87th floor of 1 World Trade Center, said that as she and hundreds of others scrambled down stairways, she passed many firefighters climbing up.
When she reached the first floor, she said, the building collapsed. "You couldn't see anything," she said. "That's when everyone panicked. Everyone was pushing. The fire people gave us light, showed us the way out. The ones who were going up, I'm sure they died."
Edward Fahey, among the first firefighters to arrive, said he had to dodge bodies that were being propelled from windows on the upper floors.
Robert Byrne, from a fire company on Houston Street, said he was on the 30th floor when the second plane hit. "We were trying to evacuate civilians," he said. "The hallways were filled with dust and smoke. The whole building was shaking. We feared it would collapse, and the chief said to get the hell out of there."
Like many survivors, Mr. Byrne seemed oblivious to the soot and dust that covered his body. He stared blankly and spoke haltingly.
"I managed to get out of the building just a few seconds before it collapsed," he said. "I hugged the wall with a couple of people. We got very lucky. I don't know what happened to the company. Just me and the lieutenant got out."
From the beginning, the city's emergency response was hampered. Soon after the first plane hit, the command center for the Office of Emergency Management at 7 World Trade Center was evacuated.
Fire officials set up a mobile unit outside the complex, on Vesey Street, but that was destroyed when the buildings came down. After that, fire officials moved their command post to a firehouse in Greenwich Village, at Houston Street and Avenue of the Americas.
There were conflicting reports about whether people in the second building were told to evacuate after the first tower was hit. Several people said they heard an annoucement over the building's public address system saying they should stay put, and that the building was secure. Others said they did not hear any announcements.
One former Port Authority official said that according to procedures drawn up with the Fire Department, evacuations would only be conducted on the floors immediately above and below the fire. With a capacity of 50,000 workers, simultaneous evacuation could lead to chaos, the former official said.
For many, the only help had to come from colleagues and others who were fleeing.
A woman who worked for Morgan Stanley on the 64th floor of Tower 2 -- able to walk only with crutches -- was carried down by fellow employees. "It was incredibly difficult," said the woman, who asked that her name not be used. "They had me over their shoulder for 5 or 10 flights and just couldn't do it."
Another co-worker she knew only as Louis came upon the struggling group, lifted the woman to his shoulder and carried her by himself, she said, adding that the temperature in the stairwell was at least 90 degrees.
At about the 15th or 20th floor, the woman recalled, a security guard said they were out of danger, and urged Louis to leave the woman and continue on his own. Louis refused.
"He carried me down all 54 flights, and then out of the building," she said, "all the way to the E.M.T. guys, and he stuck with me until we got one who said I could go in an ambulance."
After the first building collapsed, people began looking everywhere for survivors amid the rubble. Flames popped out of an ambulance; taxis slammed into buildings. One man walked around calling out, "Is anyone there? Show me an arm. Show me an arm." He got no response.
Someone asked a firefighter, "Is there anything I can do?"
"There's nothing anybody can do," the firefighter replied. "There's nothing anybody can do."
Firefighters appeared utterly dejected and dumbfounded, standing around with their hands on their hips.
Mike Fitzpatrick, 38, said he and seven other firefighters were in the lobby of the first building to collapse when one became trapped. They had begun trying to cut him out when the second building collapsed, and they couldn't get hear him anymore. Then they had to leave.
"We stayed because one of our officers was trapped," he said. "We were trying to dig him out -- we were trying to dig him out. He was alive. It collapsed on him."
By 11 a.m., hundreds of dazed firefighters were on the scene. Many were on their knees; some were crying, their heads in their hands, sitting on piles of debris.
No one raced toward the wreckage, afraid that more would fall. Some called their families on borrowed cell phones.
"I love you too," one said. "I'll come home safe -- don't worry."
A sea of firefighters and police officers slumped against building or sat dejectedly on the West Side Highway for most of the afternoon. Many refused to talk. Many were in tears.
Lines of fire trucks and other emergency vehicles sat covered with a thick coating of dust and office papers that had floated out of the sky. They had come from Passaic, N.J., Hicksville, N.Y., all over the region, but mostly they had to sit and wait.
Frank Carino, 36, a New York firefighter, said he had tried to rescue men on the seventh and eighth floors of one building but the ladder of his aerial truck did not reach high enough. "They had broken the windows and they were yelling out at us the stairways were on fire," he said. "One of the men was using a megaphone." He added that he believed the two were rescued by firefighters within the building.
Another firefighter, who declined to give his name, knelt on the asphalt, a towel over his shoulder and his eyes bloodshot.
"I saw at least 10 people jump," he said. "I heard even more than that land and crash through the glass ceiling in the atrium. We could hear them crash. We thought the roof was crashing down but then we looked up and saw that people were falling through the glass. Some people fell right onto the pavement." He stopped, unable to continue talking.
He said he entered the lobby of 2 World Trade Center with his company, but was immediately blown across the lobby. "We did our best to crawl out," he said. "My company is still missing two guys. They went back in to help people."
By early evening, hundreds of firefighters stood and watched as ladder trucks poured water onto sections of the towers still belching black smoke. The sense of shock and urgency of earlier in the day was gone. As daylight faded, a handful of firefighters, constructions workers and police officers still scrambled over the rubble with flashlights, but found the same thing as teams earlier in the day -- no sounds, no voices, little sign of life.
The three blocks of Church Street that border the World Trade Center were lined with the burnt hulks of ambulances, fire trucks and police cars left where their drivers had abandoned them.
At the corner of Liberty and Church Streets, a five-story section of the top of a building loomed over the road, causing firefighters to stare anxiously above them as they walked below. A New York State flag still flew in front of 7 World Trade Center but the building was a blackened mass. Six inches of ash and office paper covered the graves at the St. James Cathedral, across the street from the towers.
The chaplain who died, Father Judge, 68, was found by firefighters on the street along with his driver. They recognized him and took him to St. Peter's Church on Barclay Street, where they laid his body at the altar. "The church was there and they figured it was a safe place to put him," said Brother Thomas Cole of the St. Francis Friary on 31st Street, where Father Judge lived.
His body, wrapped in sheets, was later moved to the empty firehouse across the street from the friary. Later, two dozen friars and firefighters, some weeping, held an impromptu service for him there, reciting the blessing of St. Francis: "May the Lord bless you and keep you and show his face to you, and have mercy on you."
Brother Cole said that Father Judge's morning prayer had been for "peace and joy in our city."
Rabbi Joseph Potasnik, also a Fire Department chaplain, recalled that Father Judge gave a sermon recently, "a homily about how you have to enjoy each day with your friends and family. He was a remarkable human being."
When I got off the train, the second plane hit. I was looking straight down 6th and saw it all. By the time I got to work in Chelsea, the first tower collapsed, and then the second. As many people had said, it was just like a movie.
It was insanely surreal. I went from shock, to calling everyone in the world I knew and people who might need to check up on people. I managed to get out of dodge when the commercial boat lines opened up to emergency traffic.
A friend of mine was sleeping over at his girlfriend's house last night. Because of that, he was going to take the Newark to WTC train. At the last minute, he switched over to a 33rd St. train. He would have been going to WTC right when the first plane hit.
I'm not the best friend of police, but dozens of cops lost their lives today trying to save people's lives, not to mention the hundreds of firemen. I hope and pray for all of them.
Recent news reports are saying that the State Department intercepted communications from bid Laden's group about the attack. If it is true, I hope to god every last one of them is executed.
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
Can't preserve it. Got to cut into it and see if anyone managed to survive.
I can't seem to get the real impact on what has happened today, or even a realistic glimpse of it. As for Shashdot, I too give kudos in their reporting efforts as all this shit unfolded. Yes, maybe inaccuracies. Yes, maybe unretractable mis-truths. But then again, they were there (for us), weren't they?
db
Cig:
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when bigotry is based on grief, people do stupid things... don't let innocent people die because some can't control their own pain
according to CNBC at 11:15 EDT.
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
Doesn't seem morbid, one of the few surviving buildings in Hiroshima became a big part of their memorial to the atomic bombing victims.
Perhaps they could do something like that at the WTC, like a Wailing Wall of sorts... maybe polish the still-standing steel and then engrave the names of the dead on it....
You can be certain of one thing-- there are already people working on designs for the memorial.
~Philly
I don't know the answers. But there are some thoughts below in comment (#2283902)
Bush's education improvements were
everyone i met today talked about how sad they are that they dont know where their ex girlfriend's uncle's old college roomate is. fuck you, my aunt was 3 blocks away. if youre sad tell a shrink, this is a day for silent hatred of an impending force, OURSELVES. We didnt listen to osama's warnings, nor the UN delegates at teh racism conference denounce isreal as a racist state, nor to cries from oppressed peoples, nor anything else. what happens when you crush a group to futility? they get help. they might not have asked for it, but they get it.
yeah just what we need, a bunch of vigilantes on airplanes, how many deaths do you think would occur if concelead pistols were allowed considering the recent increase of air-rage incidents. It's this kind of attitude which scares me about what might happen to the world now that this tragedy has occured.
if a corporation is a personhood, why don't they have any morals?
I saw a film clip on TV today that suggests that depressurization isn't the worst thing that can happen involving an airplane.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
With all the bad news here are some pictures I previously took of the World Trade Center: physics.baruch.cuny.edu/wtc
troll? ach... whatever.. someone needs to let people who ask about the cheering know what's up...
"I think, therefore I get paid."
Just got back from talking to my friend who, in between downing as many beers as he could, told me about how worried about he was about his dad. Let me tell you what's happening with this, it's really odd for me.
First off, my friend, Adam, is a HUGE guy. Always been able to shrug off any hit he's been given and it's odd to see him so thrown off track. His dad is even bigger then him, one of the scariest guys I know.
Anyway, so this guy is a firefighter. Part of a group called S.O.C., which I forget what it stands for, but basically it amounts to him being part of a special squad, the first to get in to evacuate a burning building and the last to get out. So, as things go, the entire S.O.C. group that Adam's dad is in dies when they're trying to evacuate the second building and it collapses... minus Adam's dad and his best friend.
So now, every building that's burning and close to collapsing has to quickly be checked for people trapped in there. Which means every collapsing building is the possibility of his father dying.
At the same time, his sister has friends over. She's laughing and having fun with them, to which Adam goes up, threatens all her little boyfriends and tells her "Listen, the least you can do is respect the man who's house you live under." and she just doesn't understand.
Either way, man... I feel for that kid.
This is weird.
Worst of all though, is the glances I'm getting. With a name like Neema, it's not difficult to figure out I have a bit of middle eastern in me (I'm Turkish/Mongolian/Iranian) and people don't seem to distinguish the differences between me and the rest of the terrorists. I've already received glances and a few racist remarks... I'm interested to see what develops for me.
I work in 3 world fincial center for lehaman Brothers. As a tek guy I spent a lot of time on the 40th floor of one of the WTC towers with our development guys. I hope they all made it out.
I took Monday off so was catching up on a lot of work when someone said they heard a boom. Figuing it was some huge truck accident I didn't go look until someone said that the top of one of the towers was on fire.
I could see from our window on the 7th floor of 3 World Fincial Plaza the top 10 or so stories were billowing smoke and some fire. From our side we couldn't see the gaping hole. Soon we found out the damage was caused by a plane, a small cessna we all though as most of us went back to work.
We fielded calls from clients assuring them that we were all okay and that it was the building next store that had been hit and not us. About 15 mintues after that we heard that the other tower had been hit by another plane, it seemed like a sick joke only it was CNBC telling it.
This time we could see that horrible damage done to the building. Huge amnounts of fire and smoke were coming from both towers now. We tried calling the people we knew in the towers but got no answer. Hopefully they were out of the building by that time.
My boss said he'd be happy to buy everyone breakfast, way uptown. Leaving the building we were directed to exits away from the towers. I made a bee line for the ferries which would take me to Hoboken. I passed people who had stopped and were watching the towers blaze.
I waited on a line to buy a ferry ticket and just made it onto a ferry that was leaving. I tried to hand my ticket to the attendant but he looked at me like I was crazy.
At that moment he could have named just about any price for that ferry ride I would have gladly paid it.
Leaving manhattan I could se at least three other ferries waiting to pick people up. I could now also see the scope of the damage the WTC had sustained.
It was bad.
Still I didn't think either tower would fall, hey one survived a bomb blast in 1998. Right? On the ferry I heard that the pentagon had been hit.
How many more planes did they have I thought glancing at Lady Liberty stading in the harbor.
Once safe in Hoboken I just watched the towers. There wasn't much to see really. Both towers cloaked in heavy smoke with flames visible. The streets of Hoboken were very quite. People just stared in frustatrion at their cell phone as they were unable to reach loved ones or friends still in danger.
Just then we heard the roaring sound of a low plane. Everyone on the street froze and nervously scanned the sky. Th F-16 was a welcome sight as it passed over us. Hopefully it would mean the end of kamikaze 767's.
It was on TV that I saw the first tower fall. I ran to the river and could only make out the one remaining tower through all the smoke.
Those Towers had seemed so huge and permanent as I passed through them almost every day. Like a moutain you could see the Twins from just about anywhere.
Then the second one fell.
The World Trade Center was gone.
Slowly I made contact with friends and family. A girl I know is a nurse and will probably be caring for the wounded for the next few days with out much rest. My cousin is a cop and is managing one of the makeshift morges.
I hope my collegues in the tower never meets either of them.
I went to the river last around 10pm. Most of southern tip of Manhattan is dark except for the light on the ambulances and police cars along the west side highway. The smoke still rises from where the WTC once stood and the fires still burn.
Over the next few day the fires will stop, the smoke will clear, and hundreds, probably thousands of people will be pulled from the wreckage.
I still can't answer the question of why though. For myself that is the most distubing thing.
What was accomplished this day, some few thousand Americans were killed, a few buildings destroyed? To what end.
Waging a war in a democracy is a difficult thing. Many citizens are appaled with death and destruction on both sides and pressure their leaders to end the violence.
Today's destruction diminished those voices if it hasn't silenced them all together.
I know this.
WE WILL find those responsible for today's destruction. We've done it before and we are very good at it.
And without those voices of compassion to mollify our anger. We will, one way or another end the ability of those responsible to duplicate today's actions. After all who is there to stop us.
I have no
Ive heard the buzz on the IRC channels about Nostrodamus prediction, "the third great war will begin when the big city burns". I dont know if its a correct quote or not, I've never studied the man's works. But I have a few predictions of my own about the very near future.
People are calling it an act of cowardess that the terrorists are not coming forth to claim responsibility. People are wrong in this. This is not cowardess, it is calculation. With no confirmed villian, there is no clear focus for all the rage and horror over all that has happened. That rage will find its own outlets, in a million different directions. It will begin with prejudice, racial, religious, cultural, political, sexual, take your pick, but the violence will begin where there are already established paths of bitterness and intolerance. An arab terrorist was named repeatedly over the media coverage of todays events. That alone is going to cause several thousand children of arabian descent to go to school tommorow to find other students lining up to assault them. People need to realize it was not the black neighbor down the street, or Apu in the local qwikiemart that was piloting these planes, but that is simply not going to happen. This unfocussed rage will spawn more incidents of violence and hate than a thousand terrorist cells could ever hope to. This is the true genius and horror behind this "act of cowardice".
Next, we are going to have people wondering how the terrorists pulled this off directly under the eagles nose. American planes taking out American landmarks and dear old Uncle Sammy not finding out until 2 minutes too late. How, with all the government monitoring and intelligence, did this get planned and carried out without them knowing? Hmmm..... a global telecommunications network, impossible to monitor or censor effectievly. Sounds like a likely scapegoat to me, no? Fingers are going to start pointing our way real soon, boys and girls, and the results will make carnivore and echelon look like an ameture packet sniffer.
I am an student at Stevens Tech in Hoboken, New Jersey, which is just across the Hudson River overlooking Manhatten. I was on my way to class and saw a huge billow of smoke coming from the upper stories of the WTC. At that point I was thinking it was some fire that started in the WTC. Just seconds later, I saw a commercial airliner flying very low and banking very hard go directly into the other building with a enormous explosion. I just said "CHRIST!" and the woman next to me yelled "NO!" and immediately got out her cell phone. From her panic, I assume she knew someone involved in the attack. I stood in awe, forgetting I even had a class to go to and watched the debris fly across blocks of Manhatten. Needless to say, I get to class late and find out it is cancelled and join the onlookers to what had just happened. We then watch as the two tallets buildings just collapse like they were made of sand. F-14's and F-16's buzz over our campus and circling over Manhatten. I could see the smoke and debris billow out as far as a few hundred yards into the Hudson. The entire event was just out of a movie and I still can't believe I actually saw any of it happen. I am looking out of my dorm window which has a few of the Manhatten skyline and it just looks sad. Smoke still covers the lower part of the borough and there are flashing emergency lights everwhere. My throughts and feelings go out to those in anyway involved in the senseless acts of terrorism. I was looking at gazanews.com and apparently they may have found out who is responsible: http://news.24.com/News24/World/Americas/0,1113,2- 10-33_1078258,00.html
Nervously I got up out of bed, put on my glasses, went into my living room and turned on CNN. Sure enough, the United States was under terrorist attack. Shortly afterwards a friend of mine down the hall called me and briefed me on the events so far that morning. He was home due to a civil service strike here in Ottawa, and figured the picket line wasn't going to get any coverage since this was happening.
My wife is an American, originally from the Columbus area in Ohio, and she's been in a sort of vacant state since the beginning of this earlier this morning. Her brother, a Carnegie-Mellon student, called her at about 10:30AM to let her know he was OK, and he was inside Pittsburgh when the plane went down south of the city. All in all, I would have to say that I've never experienced anything like this in my life. From 10:00AM to 8:45PM the only time I left my couch and was away from the TV was to shower, go to the washroom, and to get something to eat or drink (or to answer the phone). I would like to extend all my best wishes to the families in the United States who have suffered a loss due to this tragedy. I know that the Canadian government will do everything in it's power to give aid to those who have suffered, and to those who will continue to suffer.
In Ottawa, blood banks are open extended hours this week as all are urged to give plasma for the New York and Washington needs. The shut down Parliament, and many businesses in the downtown area were shutdown as a result of some suspicious packages arriving at the East Bloc. I know that Ontario has made it's hospitals available to the State of New York. CBC has been doing all sorts of pieces all day on the ramifications of this incident in Ontario, and across Canada. I'm not sure what to say, I'm still sort of stunned trying to figure out how this is going to impact North America and NATO in the next weeks. I really am deeply sorry for all those who have lost. I will be going to a blood bank tomorrow with my wife to make a contribution to the Americans who need our aid.
Lastly, I'd like to add Long Live Canada, and God Bless America!
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
From AFP:
Wednesday, September 12 11:04 AM SGT Police intercept truck loaded with explosives in New York
Police intercept truck loaded with explosives in New York
NEW YORK, Sept 11 (AFP) -
Police have arrested two people and have intercepted a truck loaded with explosives on New York's George Washington Bridge, according to an unconfirmed local CBS television report.
"The truck contained enough explosives to blow up the entire span," a television reporter said.
Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik confirmed that "the Port Authority police stopped a van that might have had explosives," but added in remarks to NY1 television that "it is unconfirmed."
The George Washington Bridge links the northern part of Manhattan island with New Jersey and is the only bridge spanning the Hudson River.
"whoever planned today's attack considers that ANY American is part of the ENEMY. By that token, ANY of their citizens become part of our enemy, so there are no innocents there, either."
... thats not to say there isnt a war to be fought, but have some respect for those people and recognise them as such. They deserve it no more or less than any of the people who have died in New York and Pittsburgh, although hopefully there will be a whole lot less of them.
Sorry you lost me for a moment there with that "By that token". If we are allowed to say their civilians arent innocent then how could they have targeted innocent people in the first place? Or does it only count as wrong for the first one to use this rationalization and after that it becomes a valid one for the second party to use?
Innocent people will die in a war, officially declared or not, on the "other side" too
Dear god.
I'm not sure if this is good or not. I hope it can help some people get saved, but I can't imagine the heart-rendering experience of listening to a man die in rubble over the phone.
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
help help there's a big throbbing gay cock inside my ass!
this was an email i sent to a friend in college. i'm from rutherford, nj, a few miles out of the city, within view of what happened today.
-
i'm sure that you've heard, seen, and read your fill about the wtc attack today, but i thought i should let you know that rutherford, nj itself seems to be fine, if not eerily quiet and quite surreal. on my way home into work around 8:50 am the radio stated that a plane had crashed into the first of the trade centers, and everyone on I-95 north (the road to the george washington bridge) came to a halt. i was at work for about 2 hours, relaying information (we were one of the few groups in the company with access to the web). around 11:00 am i drove home, and alongside the nj turnpike you could see much of new york covered in a low, semicircular cloud of smoke. people were actually parking their cars on the shoulders, stopping to stare at the city while their radios were on. a couple of eerie sights: I-95 N, when I came back down I-95 S en route to the turnpike, had absolutely no one on it. i've never seen it so desolate. all major crossings into ny were closed, and they appeared to be diverting traffic in nj away from the major interstates. i'm sure tomorrow will be a mess. a couple of incidents were, like i said, eerily close to home. the route 3 exit for the lincoln tunnel was sectioned off with red cones, although no one was even attempting to go on it. i took a walk with carrie this evening (i had seen enough). she said that from ridge road she could see the smoke cloud, and i was inclined to believe her from what i saw on the turnpike. in front of rutherford's city hall, a message on the main board asked for donated blood. i heard an airplane fly overhead after the lockdown on air traffic, and tonight carrie pointed out a few lights blinking in the sky. obviously, if they were airplanes they were military ones. it's all very surreal. i imagine tomorrow will get back to normal somewhat, but i can't imagine how i'm going to even get to work. we knew someone in the trade center who apparently got out safely, and for that we are thankful. while the schools in nj weren't closed today (they were in ny) i'm sure a number of relatives from rutherford school kids will be missing tomorrow morning. hopefully no other buildings will collapse like wt 7 which did early tonight.
chris
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I go to school in Winston-Salem, NC, but I am originally from a small town in NY just about an hour or two (depending on how fast you drive) north of the city. This morning as I was sitting down in my writing workshop, a girl in my class came running in saying that the second tower had been hit. I was like, "What do you men, second tower? When was the first tower? And tower of what?" She was quite choked up- apparently she had been watching the live news coverage of the first plane crash when she saw the second plane veering around to hit the second building. After we got the story out of her, our teacher shortened class and I went to a common area to watch the news with other girls and our professors. When I was watching, it suddenly hit me. The man who pretty much helped my mother raise me lived right across the river in New Jersey- but I didn't know exactly where he worked. I ran back to my dorm room and frantically called my mother in Florida for Billy's new number. Of course, I couldn't get through because that damn irritating woman kept saying in her calm voice, "All circuits are busy. Please try your call again later." As I cried, I kept trying and trying - which was a process in itself, since we don't have long distance service in our dorm room, and I had to keep using my credit card number- but finally got a hold of him. He was no longer working in the city, but in New Jersey again. However, he did watch the first tower get hit by the plane on his way to work on the turnpike. At first he had thought they must have been filming a movie because no pilot in their right minds would be that close to any building in NYC. When he realized that it was no movie and he watched the collision, he almost ran off the road. Another friend of mine goes to Columbia University, but I was able to talk to her online when I got back to my room, and she's fine as well. I'm just so grateful that those I know are safe and sound, but I realize that not everyone else's loved ones are. There are several freshmen on my floor (I'm an RA) and other girls I know whose parents and friends worked for the Pentagon or in the WTC itself- those who haven't been able to get in touch with anyone pretty much know that their loved ones are gone. One of my friends is from Brooklyn, and she had several friends working in the towers. She knows in her heart that all of them couldn't have survived. And I can't tell them that it's alright when I hold them while they're crying, because it's not, and it won't be ever for them. I'm also worried about one of my best friends who is stationed in Virginia in the Navy. I know his ship is leaving, but he can't tell where they're going. Many others at my school are from military families, and I'm sure they're worried about what's going to happen to those who are enlisted. I was just in New York City this summer, passing through to visit family. My mom and I took the wrong exit off of the turnpike and ended up crossing the George Washington Bridge. "Look Mom, you can see the World Trade Center!" I pointed out to her as I concentrated on getting through the traffic. It's almost immpossible to believe that one of New York City's most beautiful landmarks is just totally obliterated. Will anything ever be the same for us?
2 suspects who were arrested near the washington bridge, with a truck full of explosives.
They are questioning them right now.
Tomorrow is US pride day, everyone wear US colors (jeans are blue, everyone owns a white t-shirt, etc). try to be wearing as much red white and blue as you can. send this message to as many other people you know. Lets get the whole country into it. At least send it to 10 other people.
Yeah a lame mass mail, but I want it to be seen.
--
Despite every other reply you seem to have got I'd like to commend you on your comment.
You make a post saying we've got to wait till we can find out who was responsible, and that making racial attacks against Arabs in America is going to solve nothing.
And you get attacked.
I'm not sure how a kamakazi pilot gets labeled as cowards either. The people who did this did it out of a blind sense of complete and utter patriotism. They were willing to die and kill thousands for what they believed in and the result, massive massive tradgedy.
Now if everybody else responds with a blind sense of complete and utter patriotism things aren't going to get any brighter.
The people who did this, should be punished and crippled to a point where this can hopefully never happen again.
But the key is "the people WHO did this", not "the people who we think did it, or the people that came from the same country as the people who did this".
Thankyou
It's turtles all the way down.
If I remember correctly, if one engine falls off a 747, all the pilots have heart attacks, and the landing gear won't open, the autopilot can still land the plane safely.
Most commercial airliners fly primarily on autopilot: the pilot is a skilled professional, but they're there more to handle exceptions rather than just hang on to the yoke for hours of not much activity.
There is no excuse for not isolating the cockpit from the passenger cabin from now forward.
And most of the world is run by tyrants. We are the leaders of the free world (and the free world likes us, coincidently).
The ridiculous thing is that if it weren't for our policies in the middle east, egypt and jordan would be spelled I-S-R-A-E-L. They don't call it the 6 day war for nothing. It's quite popular to criticize our policies, but we're doing the best we can. My sympathy for the entire arabic middle east just collapsed in the rubble.
There were 50,000 people in those buildings. Nobody at the blast floors or above got out alive. The ones ON the blast floor were the lucky ones - they never knew what hit them. The ones ABOVE the blast floor had to wait an hour for the collapse before they died - they couldn't get THRU the blast floors to get to the street. The casualties encompassed half of one tower and a quarter of another - that's (0.5+0.25)*50,000 / 2 = 20,000 dead. Folks, this is going to be the biggest attack in US history, even bigger than any of the Civil War bloodbaths. WHEN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YOUR CITIZENS DIE IN AN HOUR, IT'S NOT A CRIME SCENE - IT'S A BATTLE ZONE. THE CORRECT RESPONSE IS TO IDENTIFY THE ENEMY, TAKE THE WAR TO THEM, AND KILL THEM. THAT'S HOW WAR WORKS. THIS IS WAR.
It's hate like yours that is the root of all of this. I think you should think of people as individuals. My own life was saved by an arab. (BTW I am a white protestant) Not everyone is a bigot or hate-monger like you are acting. Timothy McVeigh was white. All races have bad people.
I don't think it is very clear to everyone just how LARGE the loss is.
Not yet anyway. Very very bad things are going to happen in the next 2 months.
-hackus
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
There were 50,000 people in those buildings. Nobody at the blast floors or above got out alive. The ones ON the blast floor were the lucky ones - they never knew what hit them. The ones ABOVE the blast floor had to wait an hour for the collapse before they died - they couldn't get THRU the blast floors to get to the street. The casualties encompassed half of one tower and a quarter of another - that's (0.5+0.25)*50,000 / 2 = 20,000 dead. Folks, this is going to be the biggest attack in US history, even bigger than any of the Civil War bloodbaths. WHEN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YOUR CITIZENS DIE IN AN HOUR, IT'S NOT A CRIME SCENE - IT'S A BATTLE ZONE. THE CORRECT RESPONSE IS TO IDENTIFY THE ENEMY, TAKE THE WAR TO THEM, AND KILL THEM. THAT'S HOW WAR WORKS. THIS IS WAR.
In the doctors office I watched with disbelief as CNN
reported that the world trade center had been attacked
by terrorists. Terrorism of such magnitude that it is
beyond belief, I remember thinking it was some sort of
joke, or a reel of past images. Surely something like
this did not happen in my country, the land of freedom,
the penacle of governments (so far at least, it does
have its problems). What did the victom's do to deserve
this punishment? I wish I could be numb.... emotionally.
I have never before been effected by the news, never
before have I stood with my jaw open. I pride my self
in being rather logical with the ability to supress most
of my emotion.... this totally blew it to hell.
Probabally thousands of people have died all because some
person(s) had beef with the United States. The responsable
parties did not have the courage to try to right the wrongs
that they felt had been delt to them in a sensable manner,
no they had to resort to a horrific act, an act that is
inexcusable no matter what light you want to view it in.
Each day many people die, some for a cause, others senslessly,
today's events were senseless. There was no need for these
people to perish.... no cause is that great. There is no need
for loss of human life in this manner. I truely believe that
the world dieing. Is this the beginning of the end or the
middle of the end?
Because of this horrific are we going to war? With whom is
or war? Our war is with no specific country, our war is with
a mindset. We need to seek out the cause of this mindset learn
why it evolved and find what we can do to irradicate it.
Terrorism has no place in the United States, we must declare
war on terrorism. We must find the womb of these terrorists
and inhilate it, bury it so far that it will never again
bare its ugly head.
Never before have I felt emotionally drained... this.. this..
atrocity has me completely confused. I don't know whether I
should feel anger or sorrow... right now its somewhere inbetween
confusion anger and apathy. Apathy... why should anyone feel
that when such has occured? My emotions are so strong that it
feels good to turn them off....
My heart goes out to the victoms and their families....
--Brent Jackson
It's the takeoff and landing that are difficult. Once you're in the air it's easy to speed up, slow down, and crank the joystick.
IAAP.
Two years ago my wife and I were en route from Seattle (where we live) to the Midwest to spend Christmas with family.
A very obviously drunk man boarded the plane with us and was sitting about 3-4 rows in front of us. He was very loud and belligerent to the flight attendants and to the other passengers in general for maybe an hour. Then he threw an absolute fit and started screaming and threatening the flight attendant. The reason? She refused to serve him his *fifth* beer!!
With the help of two other passengers he was 'escorted' to the rear where he was locked in a head for the duration of the flight.
And now JCR suggests that this person should've 'been packin'
Great, I feel safer already.
"We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them."
This is the first thing that has come out of GWB's mouth that I actually approve of. It is time we removed the distinction between soldiers and terrorists. If you train soldiers/terrorists in your country, to attack our county, then you are our enemy.
It's time to go to war.
As I sit here tracing the media threads that have spooled out over the world in the wake of the WTC bombing, things come to light that make me wonder if Muslims had anything to do with this atrocity.
*One, there is the case of the mysterious Google-Groups poster. This is someone who is either bery lucky, very prescient, or was involved in the attack. Critics in that thread pointed to the fact that he predicted previous disasters in for August and earlier in September. However, if he was one of the terrorists engaging in a little loose talk, then he might well have thought the attack was going ahead only to have it postponed. This attack took precise planning. They brought two planes in within eighteen minutes of each other, hijacked at different times and places (and hijacking itself is a risky and unpredictable business). It is easy to see how such an elaborately lethal plan could have had a few false starts. Even with the whole general staff working on it, the Normandy landins didn't go ahead on the planned day and nearly didn't go ahead at all.
*Secondly, there are the biblical ties mentioned by another poster, the bible verse talking about 'two brothers torn apart by chaos'. Since I don't believe Revelations was a true work of prediction, I must take any established link between the bible and a world event to run the other way
*Third, there is the nature of the crime. Domestic flights were taken, not international. This would involve getting all the terrorists into the US and to rendezvous on US soil, when they could have taken long haul flights from other countries and converged on their targets. They also had a ready supply of trained pilots. I have seen it suggested elsewhere that Osama Bin Laden operates an airfield where he trains terrorists in flying large commercial jets for terrorist operations, but Occam's Razor might suggest that the terrorists started as pilots and became terrorists later. Many have commented on the skill with which the planes were flown.
*The choice of targets is as good for separatist christians as it is for Muslims : the Pentagon, military and intelligence bureaucracy and the World Trade Centre, a nexus for big business and globalisation. The lack of sophisticated weaponry (knives and box-cutters) could be a clever move to ensure that none of the terrorists were arrested by airport security, thus blowing the operation, or it could be a sign that the perpetrators are simply an unsophisticated first-time terrorist group.
*There has been no wave of embassy bombings or even attempted embassy bombings around the world, even though these would be easily-organised side-shows to boost the effectiveness of the main terror attack on US soil. In fact such attacks would sow chaos and overload the US intelligence network with reports of violence. They would be very desirable extras if you were an extra-US terrorist organisation that wanted to prove a point.
*No Muslim group or nation anywhere has claimed responsibility for this attack, even thought terrorst groups are usually jumping all over themselves to try and attach their name to any imposing act of terror they can find.
*The Solicitor-General's wife, when she telephoned from the toilet of the airliner that crashed in Pennsylvania, failed to mention the ethnicity of the hijackers. She may have thought it unimportant (heaven knows I would only be concerned with talking to my loved-ones). But it may also indicate that there was 'nothing worth mentioning', i.e. caucasian, american hijackers.
There is no hard evidence here whatsoever, I acknowledge that. There will not be hard evidence for a long time. But remember Oklahoma and don't cast the net to narrowly when searching for the brutal criminals behind this terrible act.
As I read over this, I begin to think that it will vanish rapidly
http://wire.ap.org/APnews/?SITE=INLAF&FRONTID=HOME
AP World Wire report: retaliation by opposition (anti-taliban) to attacks in form of rocket attacks on Kabul, the Afghan capital. The Taliban denies any unrest (also denies their complicity and the role of bin Laden), stating that an ammo dump *accidentally* blew up.
My brother, a Columbia journalism student was on the scene this tragic morning. He bore witness to the devestation, and finds himself, hours later, mentally devestated by the recurring image of helpless souls hurling themselves to a speedy death from the upper levels of the tower.
May God rest their souls.
The attacks happened around 11pm our time. Our Channel 9 took the ABC coverage. My original comment was kamikazes.
The scenes were horrific. The images of the buildings collapsing will stay with me the rest of my life. I alternated between CNN live, BBC World Service and ABC the rest of the night.
Our Prime Minister, John Howard, was at the Australian Embassy in Washington, D.C. at the time. He was transferred to a safe room.
Your former President Clinton was holidaying at remote Port Douglas, Queensland at the time. Security was increased and a plane provided at Cairns for him.
An Australian company recently acquired a stakehold in the World Trade Centres. Refer to
The Age and the SMH
May I say that America is the greatest country in the world? The incredible tolerance shown by Americans in the wake of the tragedy is remarkable and displays exactly why America is what it is.
Condolences to the friends and families of the victims.
from: www.itl.tv
The terrorist attack on the US has been deemed the "Pearl Harbor" of the 21st century. The goal of any terrorist attack is to disrupt normal operations and daily lives of people, and in this it has succeeded like no other terrorist event in the history of mankind.
In the US federal buildings have been closed, amusement parks such as Disneyland, "the happiest place on earth", were closed, mayor sporting events have been postponed. For the first time in history of the US all commercial flights have been cancelled, shools were closed and the Salt Lake Olympic commitee headquarters were loked as well. It was impossible to make overseas telephone calls, while even MTV and the most favorite shopping channels had suspended broadcast in order to bring the newsfeed of the tragedy.
The effects of this attack were felt worldwide, commercial flights were banned over London and all Transatlantic flights from Europe have been cancelled as well. The largest Autoshow in the world held in Frankfurt, Germany has been cancelled and the world famous Munich Oktoberfest will not be held this year. France is in a highten state of security.
Financial markets around the world are tumbling down while condolences are comming in from leaders around the world and such unlikely sources such as from Mr. Arafat, Gadaffi and the Afghanistan goverment, the world is in Shock.
Besides the loss of life and destruction of property which insurance claims reach billions of dollars, it is still uncertain what the full impact of this act of barbarism will have on the world. America has been shaken and the aftershocks will be felt around the globe.
We all have seen New York destroyed many times in movies such as Godzilla and Armageddon, today it was for real, and while watching the images of the tumbling towers the mind tryies to tell you that it is just another movie and you have to remind yourself that the people jumping off the towers are for real and then your mind recoils in horror.
"September 11th, 2001, The day the earth stood still"
September 11 2000 - WTO protests at Seattle. Does anyone else see the connection?
You don't even know who did it!
Buckets,
pompomtom
"There's an exception to every rule. Except for some rules"
I really don't understand how myself or my roommate, both of whom met in the living room to exchange a 'Did you hear that?!' before heading outside, did not hear the explosion. But we've both heard the sirens. All day long.
May those in danger be saved.
May those that died and their families find peace.
May those responsible receive justice, in this life or the next.
John Hurst
If you don't live in NY State, it might be a good idea to call for an appointment. Blood has a shelf life, and once you give, the banks over here in Seattle anyway won't let you give again for 53 days. Its possible that they'll say that they have enough for now, but will be needing blood within the next few weeks.
If you live in/near seattle, call this number to schedule a donation.
1-800-398-7888
or register online at
http://www.psbc.org
I work on 14th and 5th in a corporate travel agency. We know within seconds anytime a plane goes down anywhere.
I went in very early b/c I was leaving early to pick up my son since my wife was training in NYC and wouldn't be able to get him. I had an 8:30 meeting with my boss. We were discussing things like who we were going to let go and such.
The building shook a bit. But there has been a lot of construction at Union Square so this was no out of the ordinary.
Then the door flew open. This does not happen ever. One of the HR guys says the World Financial Center has been hit by a plane.
I freak my Mother works in the WFC. I am running to my office to get my cell phone. I am going downtown. Someone, I don't know who says go on the roof. We have access to the roof. I went. I don't know why. I saw the gaping hole on the side of the WTC. The WFC is a foot ball throw away from the WTC. I am still extremely concerned.
The second tower explodes. I do not understand the other tower is on fire not the second tower. Why is this happening?
I formulate ideas as I run down the stairs to get out of the building. Maybe a wing flew off.
I get to the stret my assistant NW guy is standing on 14th. He doesn't come this way usually. Usually he is on 15th. He does not understand what is happening. He is concerned becuase he knows my mother is over there. I explain I am going to get her. A large, large NYPD person explains I am not going down there.
My cell phone does not work. I cannot call anyone.
I go back to my office an frantically begin calling everyone I know down there. My uncle is on the Brooklyn Bridge. My Father is MIA. My Mother has called but is cut off midsentence.
Several minutes maybe an hour pass the tower collapses. From 5th Ave it looks very much like it has fallen on the WFC. I am despondent.
Hours later bruised and bloodied with shoe marks on her face my Mother wanders into my office. I have everyone I know calling her. She just walks in. Sever minutes later my Father walks in the door. and a few minutes after that my wife.
The 5 of use (Wife, Mother, Father, assistant) leave the building and walk to the 59th street bridge and leave Manhattan.
This
CNN has just play video of the 1st crash of a plane into the world trade center. god fucking damn, whats happening to the world.
Oh Well, Whatever, Nevermind...
Don't forgive. Retaliate then, and when they retaliate again, and you retaliate again, and it continues down through the ages, you will realize that the civilized act is forgiveness, and the barbaric act is revenge.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. My heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones, but you will not add one day to your life if you allow yourself to be consumed by bloodlust.
I've already lost one of the best friends I've ever had in life, not to mention I've had to forgive my father for horrible abuse, physical and sexual. I know a thing about pain and suffering, and I know the one thing that heals it is forgiveness alone. It is the beast, the natural reflex of the animal to strike back. It is the Man, ruled by mind and not by instinct, that forgives.
I woke up this morning, happy. I got dressed and grabbed my doodle bear as I was leaving the house, doodle bear is a bear that everybody signs and writes stuff on. I live in northern Virginia, about 20 min south of dc. Everybody here's parents work for the military/government.
I went to 1st period and everything was normal, I was talking to my friends and acting cheery and happy. Then I went to 3rd period and was talking to my friends, then we started taking a quiz. A teacher from the next class came into the room, and whispered something to our teacher. She said omg and turned on the TV. I looked up and could not believe what I saw, the twin towers on fire. Soon the teacher *ms sullians* was on the internet on news sites finding out more info. She said "the pentagon is on fire" and I burst into tears.
I wanted nothing more than to go and call my daddy and find out where he is and how he is doing. Daddy is a government contractor and he is always in dc. We had 10 min left in class and I just sat there crying. The girl sitting next to me was a complete moron, and she was asking the stupidest questions. She was saying things like "what so like where is the world trade center" and "wait so like its on fire." The bell rang and I ran down to the nurse's office to use the phone, which was closed. We aren't aloud to use cell phones in school, so I stood in line to use the payphone, crying. The phones were jammed, nobody could get thru. I saw my friend Shannon and she was crying too. We went into the auditorium and just sat there with other people who's parents were at the pentagon being sad together. I went back to class and our teacher wouldn't turn on the TV. He was telling us things about how "they are busing government workers out of dc" and stuff, but that didn't help at all. After I got out of that class I had the last class of the day, learn and serve. It's a community service class and I ended up running around school handing out passes to people who were going home early.
School ended and I got on the bus. I turned on my phone and started calling daddy. Nothing went thru. Then I remembered I had Nextel and I tried the direct connect thing. It worked and I heard my dad's voice. That was the happiest feeling. All the worries of the day were gone. The events of today are like nothing that has happend before. This is the kind of stuff that will have movies and books writen about. We will never forget where we were when it happend, and the feelings we felt.
Which do you mean, Dick Cheney or Colin Powell?
I'm not into a political weiner-waving contest here, but the title of your message kinda begs for arguement, as does that last sentence. Surprised this one is marked 1:Interesting instead of 0:Troll but that's just MHO.
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
I'm not sure how a kamakazi pilot gets labeled as cowards either. The people who did this did it out of a blind sense of complete and utter patriotism. They were willing to die and kill thousands for what they believed in and the result, massive massive tradgedy.
Here at Slashdot, we allow people to be anonymous, but we label them as cowards. The terrorist organization that did this is the ULTIMATE anonymous coward--a well-organized group that struck us militarily, and yet does not have the wherewithall to face us on an open field.
Furthermore, the friggin' WTC is *not* a military target. If they wanted to blow up a NYC skyscraper, I can name a whole bunch that would be a lot better...
(hmm, where to start--how about the Stock Market itself, or maybe the UN building... or maybe even one of the slew of US federal buildings in the area. The WTC is a target of terror, just like the Statue of Liberty.)
Personally, I think that peopole who hijack and airline filled with civilians and use it for war are just plain ol' sick. It's like hiding behind a crowd in a battlefield--it's an act of cowardice.
Sure, they have *reason* to be afraid, but that doesn't make them not cowards.
BTW, I'm all for glassing the homes of whomever did this and whatever place on earth is helping them do it. I think it's time to take off the kid gloves and do to the Mideast what we did to Germany and Japan.
Wrong time for an automatic aphorism generator to select this one.
Well... this is strongly smelling SADDAM or bin LADEN... I am not american. I am from Brazil. But one thing I tell you... I am deeply sad with what happened. It's a disaster. Now, it's time to terminate all terrorist groups and governments that are hosting them before they hit USA again.
(Slashdot Webmaster: you really suck forcing us to sign as Anonymous Coward. See the tragedy today to get the dimension of that word.)
Kill. All. Sand. Niggers.
I agree that having a reasonable percentage of the good, upstanding citizens (permit holders must pass an FBI check, so it is safe to say that most all of them fit in the "good, upstanding" category) armed is a great deterrent to crime.
But there needs to be more stringent requirements for carrying on an airplane. A single stray round in the wrong place in an airliner at altitude could kill everyone on the plane. Even FBI agents and other law enforcement are not permitted to carry firearms on aircraft for this reason, unless they have passed an FAA course on the use of firearms in aircraft*.
I would, however, feel a lot more comfortable on aircraft if Concealed Carry Permit holders who had also passed the FAA's course could be allowed to carry firearms on aircraft. I doubt it will ever happen, but if it did then it would GREATLY complicate the plans of any hijackers. If you don't belive this then as a mental excersize try planning a hijacking in your imagination, then try to do the same thing assuming that an unkown percentage of the passengers will be armed and trained in CQB on aircraft.
Of course, no amount of security proceedures (even arming and training every other passenger and every crewman on the plane or some magic device which could prevent ANY weapon, even a ball point pen, from being brought on board) short of completely redesigning air travel would be able to prevent something like this from being repeated. At the very least a sufficiently determined terrorist group could find an almost empty flight and put more terrorists onboard than other passengers, or even insert their members as part of the flight crew. I think the best thing we can do is completely roll up the organization(s) that did this and their accomplises so that for the next genration or two any rational terrorist (and yes, most can be modeled as rational) would determine that such an act would be counter-productive to his/her cause.
* Even then, they must be on duty with orders at the time. And the pilot in command of the aircraft can still prohibit them from bringing firearms on board; which I think is proper, since the pilot is the ultimate authority on the airplane.
The solutions?
1) Armed agents on every plane, international or domestic.
2) Better security procedures. No knives whatsoever on planes. Pat downs if necessary. Too many airports have made a joke out of these procedures.
3) Sealed cockpits. This is unfortunate, but it's either this or a ring of fighter planes around every major city.
4) Constant GPS/radar computerized tracking of ever flight. Flights should never be lost or confused the way they were today. The second a flight veers off course, alarm bells should ring at the NTSB headquarters, and all over the country.
This may help with larger planes, but it still leaves a huge question mark over smaller, private planes. A Cessna with a load of explosives couldn't do this much damage, but it could be equivalent to a van full of explosives. And just this sort of van was allegedly forced over by police on the GWB.
the reason she probably dosen't remember hearing it is because she would have been and would still be in shock. your memory goes when you are in shock for your own protection.
SSL Certificate
I cant believe it.. it was really him..
check it out here
Heres a tribute to those affected by the tragedies. Note that in the picture, despite the obvious catastrophe, the US flag is still flying. http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stecher/
Which means, of course, that every plane will now be wide open to every nutjob with permit and a score to settle. Watch them come flying out of the sky.
maybe.
Are you wrong?
most definitely.
I am a Jew. I have many Muslim friends. I read the Torah in the original Hebrew. They read the Qur'an in the original Arabic.
We are all Americans. We all go out on a Friday night, with our Christian and Pagan and agnostic and atheist friends. We have fun. We talk. We enjoy each other's company.
My Muslim friends don't desire the eradication of non-Muslims any more than I lust after the money of gentiles, any more than our Christian friends want to convert us to save our souls, any more than our Pagan friends sacrifice babies, any more than our atheist friends attack our beliefs.
And all of us are horrified by this attack on Americans, just as we are disgusted by violent actions against people anywhere in the world. One of my greatest fears right now is of violence and civil rights violations against my friends.
You are wrong and ill-informed. We all hope for justice.
Have you donated money, blood, or otherwise, to ease the suffering of the stricken? We have.
All of us.
These guys knew exactly what they were doing to create the first unconventional building implosion of its type. Somebody put a lot of engineering work into this, calculating -- probably from public or stolen drawings of the WTC's steelwork -- how much steel (nominally fireproofed or otherwise) might be exposed in a fireball created by the ram-impact of a large airliner coming in frontally through the side, rathert than a glancing impact.
That assumes collapsing the building was the intent.
Another possibility is that they wanted to destroy a significant section of the building, its personnel, and/or its equipment and files by fire, and that a partial or total building collapse, if it were to occur, would be an "added bonus".
A fully-fuled airline could be expected to produce a several-story fire barrier, killing the people at the affected floors and blocking most of those above it from escape, as the fire and its heat and gasses worked upward, above the level where effective action could be taken against it.
You'll note that the first plane struck quite high. This is not consistent with deliberately attempting to collapse the building.
It might be interesting to identify what offices were at or above the levels of impact on each of the towers. (Though that would assume the planes hit at the levels that were intended.)
Regardless of whether it went down as intended, it certainly succeeded. Both towers and the adjacent "building 7" were destroyed totally. While the timing of the strikes let a lot of people be evacuated, it also trapped and killed a lot of fire, police, and medical personnel.
I understand that despite the cutoff of gas and electric to the affected section of Manhattan there is (or was) one large hotel on fire, and a large chunk of the fire department (including its top three officials) were killed in the collapse of the towers, along with a lot of equipment buried. So there might still be a "South Manhattan Fire" taking out the rest of the financial district.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
The US used to have armed guards on airplanes in the 70's. We just have too many planes to do this now... I say, STOP FLYING ALL OVER THE PLACE EVERY SECOND. Sure, every once in a while take a vacation, but for business start using the FRICKEN PHONE and the INTERNET. Let's SIMPLFIY so that it's easier to SECURE.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Personal Experience at the WTC Site.
... slow running train etc.
... everyone
.. didn't feel a thing.
I work in 75 Wall (about 1/2 mile from WTC). Usually
get to work somewhere around 9:00 am.
This morning I took my nephew (21) with me to work. It is
his last day of visiting the US and he needed something
from me near my workplace. So we head off on the subway.
The usual... Missed a train
Now had a choice of taking an E train which stops at WTC
and walk or C train which leave me a few hundred yards
closer to work. Decided on the latter and we walking out
of the subway about 8:50 when I saw a lot of people
coming down to the subway. This was my first idea that
something was different (no one gets on here
gets off). Anyway when we went upstairs I saw a lot of
people milling about on the street and point upwards. I
looked up too and saw the building on fire about 300 yards
in front of me. It looks like I was under the WTC when
the first plane hit
We were looking up for a few minutes when all of a sudden
we saw a burst of flames and a huge explosion. People
started screaming and yelling. I shed several tears for
the people who would be trapped in the buildings.
I watched for a while longer and then proceeded to work.
I was making a few phone calls to friends when I felt my
building shake and another loud noise. Shortly thereafter
they asked to vacate our 16th floor and proceed to the
lower floors. I went to the lobby and when I found that
the WTC building had collapsed decided to call it a day
and head for home.
There was panic and chaos everywhere. I found that most
everyone was very courteous and kind. Civilians were
directing traffic and helping as best they could. I figured
that I could walk a few blocks and catch a subway home
from there. I ended walking about four miles to get to
a bridge where a friendly bus driver gave about 100 of us
a lift in his empty bus across the bridge. It took me
about a further hour to get home. I was strange looking
down at the skyline of lower manhattan and not being
able to see the WTC towers because of the debris, smoke
etc. I didn't know at this time that the second tower
had come down.
Latest update. I know someone who works in the WTC. I also
hear of someone who did work on the 104 floor but was laid
off yesterday and someone who just started yesterday. As
the days wear on I am sure that I will hear stories of
others whom I know or know their relatives. I have hear from
a friend that 3 people with young families had not come
home as of 9:00 pm and who work there.
It doesn't look like I will be going to work tomorrow or
maybe even for the rest of the week.
I will probably use the time tomorrow to donate blood if
needed. I will play it by ear since I have O negative type
and I believe that that is what they are short of.
I have given several gallons of blood over the years. It
is relatively painless.
It was a day I will always remember. Being under the
building when it was hit is a scary thought.
To the followers of those responsible:
You may believe that you have won a victory of some kind. You may believe your leaders have brought glory to you and your cause. You may believe that you have delivered a powerful and lasting message.
You have not.
Instead, you killed innocent men, women, and children. You killed accountants, bankers, janititors, and clerks. Mothers, fathers, sons and daughters. People woh have done you no harm, and wished you no ill.
You may believe you have changed the United States. You may believe you have fundamentally altered our beliefs and values. You may believe you have broken the resolve of the USA.
You have not.
Instead, your cause has become irrelevant. Your voice cannot be heard, your message lost in the sound of falling debris. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter.
Your legitimate and perceived grievances with the United States cannot be addressed.
The people who are responsible for this have done you a terrible harm. if you are following them, they are leading you astray. All good people everywhere must condemn this act of terrorism, regardless of your political disagreements with the USA.
the flights hijacked were numbered 11, 93, 175, and 77....
11 is today
9+3=12...tomorrow
1+7+5=13....thursday
7+7=14....friday
scared yet?
"No "civilized" country should sell any weapon to anyone without democratic legitimisation; even better, all international weapon trading should be simply forbidden, including hand guns"
Current news reports suggest that the weapons used in the hijackings was "box cutter" style razor blade knives. What now, a U.N. call to ban all knives? Don't forget to get rid of ice-picks, screwdrivers, awls, leather-punches, chisles, etc. Then you would also have to ban flint and obsidian rocks, which could be converted into knives!
Also, as bad as this is don't forget that the number 1 cause of death in the last century was governments murdering their own citizens (roughly 170million dead, primarily in Russia, German, China, East Europe, Indochina, and Sub-sahara Africa). A world where weapons were only in the hands of governments would be far more dangerous place than even a world where weapons were easily available to every thug and would-be revolutionary.
This series of attacks have been horrible and the lost of friends and family is terrible to the rest of the world. After watching the unfolding events and reactionss around the world and at home, just shows that we have stumbled far.
The Clinton legacy of not supplying our military/spying community with the funds it needs and not correcting the spending habits of the government (a constant problem even before Clinton). This has caused them to attempt to reduce cost and relie on electronic spying, which without human assistance is worthless. Bush might not be the greatest president (not that he has been there long enough to be judged either way), but has to deal with the legacy of Clinton's lame duck presidency.
This government issue has been greatly compounded by the corporate greed to reduce the bottom line in which they paid security guards less then McDonald employees. The person(s) in charge of the security have constantly pushed for budget and have been refused by the suits(I have an fairly close source to this). Of course we would pay for tight security in our wallet, but it would worth it.
We need to correct this issues and learn from our mistakes, but we do not need to live in a military state. That would be a slap in the face of everything we hold dear or can take for granted in a free country.
Every terrorists should be targetted and not just those involved in this incident. Any country or organization that assist them should be wiped out. Any individual that works with them should be punished harshly. They should never feel safe in any spot in the world until they are judged by their maker.
We need come to together as a nation and reaffirm our constitution which has allowed us such access to success and become the world's premiere super power without forgetting the rest of the world. This does not mean destroying our own economy or country by signing foolish treaties (the Kyoto comes to mind). The UN needs to be disbanded and a new organization that does not push a anti-american or extremist agenda to become the world government needs to come to pass.
The rights of the individual that respects others by not killing or committing crimes against his fellow man should come above any government or organization. This a government for the people and not the pencil pushers in local/state/federal governments. Hopefully the senate will not attempt to create a police state in respond to this attack, but we need a tighten security in airports and entering our country. I would rather have someone in question left out, then risk inviting a possible criminal/terrorist into our country. A simple thing like a guard or two with a gun on board could have stopped all or some of this incidents (using low powered pistols).
God be with us all and may reason see the justice brought to all terrorists in the world. The great architect of the universe protect us all and bless those in need.
I thought we had the 2nd Amendment because the Founding Fathers thought that a society where political AND military power were in the hands of the people would be far more stable and long lived than one where the people only had political power and could be "over ruled" by force at any time.
I haven't seen them anywhere else
Being a few thousand miles away from it, I can't say I was directly invovled. I was onsite yesterday, and did'nt get home until very late. Only having to do paperwork today, I decided not to set my alarm (I work from home).
What surprised me was the constant chimes from my computer all morning from IMs being sent, while at the same time the conspicious lack of chimes from my outlook giving me email. Somewhere around 9am PST I decided to roll over and investigate. Dozens of messages from freinds asking 'do you belive this' and 'oh my God' littered my desktop.
When I finally woke up, I sent a message back to one of my closer freinds asking what was up. 'Turn on the TV', she replied. What I saw horrified me. I paniced, and immediatly dialed my sister in LA, waking her up. She had no idea what was going on either, until I filled her in.
I finally told everyone I needed a few minutes to collect my thoughts. I live very close to the flight path of Sky Harbor airport, and as I left the apartment towards the store to pick up some caffene to put my head on streight, I noticed a conspicious lack of air traffic. It was almost eerie.
The clerk at the circle K was frantically telling everyone to 'buy gas now' before it was all gone, and I got a sick feeling in my stoumach. The worst was not over; nothing the terrorists could do to us will be as bad as what we do to ourselves. I realized for the time being anyone with Arab extent was screwed in this country, and would be blamed and persicuted for quite some time.
This feeling was compounded as I got back home and saw messages from freinds advocating 'Lets get drunk and beat up an A-Rab'. I walked to to the local bar for lunch, hearing all too often 'kill those fucking rag heads'. In the bathroom there was scratched into the wall 'Arabs go home'.
And while this all made me a bit sad, nothing disturbed me more then the feeling in the late afternoon of absolute anger. Seeing the anti-US dancing in the street, reading news bits from various mid-east nations feeling proud of the attack... it made me angry, and, for a while, made me want blood.
It's a terrible feature of human nature that we can so easily substitute sadness over something horrid like this with revenge. I watched Kabul being bombed and secretly hoped we were kicking the shit out of the bastards who did this, and that feeling made me feel a little bit better, if only for a while.
I fear the real outcome of this incident will be that we find ourselves to be nothing more then knee-jerk reactionaries. Don't get me wrong, I still want those responsible to pay for this, but I hope to dear God that we do things right, don't compromise our principals of justice, and can feel justified when it's all over that we did the right thing.
The Internet is generally stupid
Bad moderation
it's not about whether you like the content, it's relevance, this IS relevant
Then, on the way to work I heard about the SECOND plane. I was a little confused (wondering what the hell is going on, thinking it might be a joke) when I hear about the Pentagon (my mother works in that area). I tried to call home but my cell phone (Sprint) couldn't get through. I then pulled over at a pay phone (Verizon) & tried to call home but I still couldn't get through. I had to sit down on the ground for a few minutes because I almost threw up. I got to work but was told that non-essential employees were to leave (I work at a Federal Center near DC). I could see the smoke from the Pentagon. My mother made it home ok after spending about 5 hours in traffic. She said that they were watching the World Trade Center on the news & felt the Pentagon get hit. I got home and have basically been either online, or watching TV all day.
My prayers and condolences to all those that had family & friends in the planes or buildings, and to the families of all the firemen, police, emergency workers believed to be lost.
we don't all live in the US
To see pics I took as well, go to http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~mphipps/
Real Story:
So I walk out of the WTC Path train at about 8:55am, like I would on any other weekday. Immedidately, the smell of smoke was obvious. I briskly walked outside (instead of heading to the elevator to the 95th floor), and found the streets covered with charred office supplies. Everyone was standing around, staring up at One World Trade, and the flaming hole that had been left by the commercial airliner in the 95th floor. I was standing about a block away from 2 WTC. We all tried our very best to raise our loved ones and bosses on our cell phones, but to no avail. In the midst of that confusion... BOOM!
A plane had hit the second building. I saw the impact, but could make little sense of it, since it happened so fast. Immediately, everyone ran as fast as they could. I saw a number of people not too far from me get hit by falling debris. It was tough to make out exactly what happened to them, but generally you don't survive being hit by anything that falls from that high. Anyway, I ran into the nearest open building. Turns out it was a high school. A small group of us waited in the auditorium there for a while. We swapped brief stories of how we came to realize that this horrific act of terrorism was happening right above our heads. About 30 minutes later, everything seemed calm, and many of us left the shelter of the high school auditorium. There were crowds of people standing just a few blocks away from the WTC complex. All of them were gazing at the rippling tides of flame and smoke coming out of the former symbol of financial and economic greatness. Then, with little warning, the entire top of one of the buildings (i think 2) began to cruble!
Everyone immediately realized that this was extremely bad, and a frantic rampage ensued. A massive crowd of people was barreling eastward to get away from the blast and debris. No matter how far any of us got, we were eventually enveloped by an incredibly thick cloud of brownish smoke and concrete. Visibility was quickly cut to zero. I felt around, (I knew I was right next to a building) and found a small inset in the front of some building. A bunch of us, say 10, wound up there, huddling in the darkness and smog. A man next to me noticed a glass door, that we tried to break with our feet. That didn't work, but we quickly found a brick and smashed the door. Once we got inside, the air was much clearer, but obviously, it was thickening in a hurry. One Asian lady had apparently breathed in a large amount of the overpowering cloud, and was not able to breathe. We carried her inside the building, and someone who had medical training took over trying to help her. She coughed up some very horrible things, and then seemed to die.
Just as this was happening, I realized we couldn't stay in that place any longer. The air had become just as bad as outside (in a total of about 3 minutes). Two of us began exploring and I quickly found a staircase leading to the main lobby of the building. Most of us went up there. I don't exactly know what happened to the people down below, but I believe most of them made it up to the lobby. Once in the lobby, we just hung out for a while. We were very unsure of what would happen next.
The second building collapsed. This time we were inside, and it barely affected us. We definitely noticed the gross air accumulating in the building, and outside it was as black as night. After that blast subsided, I noticed a small glass room one level above. I went up there and found all the executives of the company sitting around in this nice boardroom-type thing. I promptly used the phone to call my Mom and let her know that I was alright. Then I called my Dad and the House. I stayed there for about another 20 minutes, until I could take these conditions no longer (the smoke was definitely seeping into the building). I walked outside, and the streets were basically deserted. I had no idea whether there would be more terrorist attacks, so I just started running towards the Battery.
When I arrived there, I quickly noticed a tug-boat at the dock. They said they were going to Jersey City, so I jumped on. They were very nice, and gave me food and drink (I looked pretty bad by this time). I helped a few old ladies and whatnot get on the boat and be comfortable. About 10 minutes later, we left for JC. They dropped us of pretty far south in JC, and I walked back to Hoboken (cell phones not working, of course). I was much relieved to finally get home.
Bosnia New York
by EricR
From YanktheChain.com (http://www.yankthechain.com)
The World Trade Center collapsed outside my window.
It's now 11:00 at night, and from my apartment in Brooklyn you can see clear across the water to the smoke that still billows gray against the black of the night sky. It would be all too easy to make a metaphorical parallel between the monstrous amount of smoke I've seen pouring out of lower Manhattan today and the pall that has fallen over the city, so I'll resist the urge, but it's been the smoke that has been most noticeable and unnerving from where I am, smoke so high you have to crane your neck to see it all, even though it comes from several miles away.
At 10am today, the radio woke me up, and I heard Howard Stern say something about the World Trade Center and how there was "no point in him being on right now" like he was about to go off the air. I immediately went over to my window where I saw a single tower of the Trade Center standing across the water, engulfed in the biggest plume of smoke I'd ever seen.
I rushed outside my room where my roommate, Morgan, was staring aghast at the television. He looked up at me in disbelief.
"I think I just saw one of the twin towers collapse." He said.
It had happened minutes before.
A half an hour later we were looking out the window as the second tower came tumbling to the Earth.
"When I saw the first tower go down," said Morgan, a lifelong New Yorker, "I thought, for a moment, that everything else was going to go down with it. The whole city. I mean, how could the World Trade Center collapse?"
The smoke bloomed, and the television looked like a mirror of what was happening out the window right next to it, as if they were shooting the news footage directly from our apartment. I had a hard time telling the difference: window, television, window, television; it was probably the most surreal moment of my life.
In the progressive montage of scenes that the television showed us, we saw a flight attendant rush out of an airport lobby crying "We work for a target!", Mayor Guilianni talking about how while they were evacuating him City Hall, right around the corner from the Trade Center, he "saw people jumping out of the windows" of the building, and footage of part of the financial district reduced to a cemetery of metal and brown ash. In the coming hours there were eyewitness accounts of a man emerging from an elevator while on fire, human bodies plowed into the concrete and the explosion reducing people to sloshy human puddles.
"It's like Israel." said Morgan. Then later, "It's like Bosnia." And later still, "It's like Independence Day. They just showed this line of burnt out cars and busses, completely hallowed out and charred, just like in Independence Day."
This kind of thing isn't supposed to happen here.
"Do you have any idea how much firepower it takes to bring down buildings of that size?" I asked.
Just a month before the power company had destroyed two gasoline towers in nearby Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Beforehand, the local news stations had made a big point of displaying the amount of explosives spread throughout the base of the large, hollow structures in order to bring them down.
Morgan and I both called our mothers, who live in town. "They had us all give blood," said my mother, a doctor at a local hospital, "and they're going to start bringing victims here. We're all getting ready."
We were told by the TV that the best thing we could do was give blood, so we left for the nearest hospital. On the way, even here in the borough of Brooklyn, we saw screaming cop cars and ambulances, an army reserve truck, and otherwise normal-looking people wearing filtered face masks on the street. The city was in chaos, and the whole while the ever present smoke cloud streamed across the horizon from Manhattan, looming, ominous and frightening. "The smoke cloud is veering south east," said the news radio, "into Brooklyn."
At the hospital we were told that we couldn't give blood today (no reason expressly given, though Morgan hazarded that all the medical personal had been sent into Manhattan), and that we'd have to either come back the next morning or call a number we were given on a sheet of paper.
At home I called the number and was told that they weren't accepting any more blood donations, but they took my number and told me that they would call me when they were. They just didn't have enough people to collect blood, even though there's a blood shortage.
Mere months ago I used to work on Water street, not five blocks from the Trade Center buildings. This is the first time I've been really glad that they fired me; I can't imagine having been trapped down there, and I wonder about my former co-workers. And I was the one who talked my roommate out of us moving into a building in that area, because I desperately didn't want to live in the financial district.
I have never been in a war zone, but today New York sure felt like what would I imagine one feels like. Which is a sentiment I heard a reporter in the Financial District express just after I wrote it. They're evacuating everything below Canal street. Three buildings have collapsed, two more are in danger of falling, many more are on fire and the entire area is engulfed in a layer of soot and debris. The unyielding smoke is rolling through Brooklyn just south of us, and the neighborhood of the financial district is a total wasteland.
Of course, most of this information is from the American lifeline of television. All I can see firsthand right now is the continuing smoke (and smoke and smoke and smoke) and the regular stream of police, ambulances and even one caravan of trucks towing construction and rescue vehicles, motoring down the otherwise empty Brooklyn-Queens Expressway out my window. But I'm getting the feeling that the sound of sirens will be a pretty regular occurrence for the next few days.
At a local deli a worker, clearly of draftable age, told me that he "hope we bomb dem. It's about time we bomb dem." And for the first time in my life it was a sentiment I agreed with. For most of my life I had toed the line that war was only justified if someone attacked American soil. And now someone has attacked American soil on a level not seen since Pearl Harbor, and an attack with perhaps as much significance as the British burning down the White House in 1812. Insanity. The most Americans ever killed in one day was during the Civil War, and that was just over 20,000. It looks like this will dwarf that, and make Oklahoma City look like a very minor incident. It's hard to imagine; the death toll is pretty assuredly greater then that on D-Day. And while we don't know who did it, something very American deep inside me hopes that when we find out, and we will find out, that we blow dem up real good. It's something I've never thought, the kind of thoughts I never thought I'd have, and as much as the fact that I think these things horrifies and frightens me, I really do want to see people die for this in a very palpable way.
"I hope it's the Palestinians." Said an Israeli girl at a local cafe, "I mean, I'm sorry it happened, but I hope it's the Palestinians because then it wouldn't just be the Israelis against them, but the Americans too and that would be great."
George W. Bush went on television and said most of nothing. He is right when he said the quote that he will probably be known for forever, that "there is a quiet, unyielding anger in America today". At least, there is in this apartment - a quite, unyielding anger mixed with shock, disbelief and horror.
Every few minutes I have to say to myself, "They destroyed the World Trade Center" to reaffirm that this really happened. It's so far-fetched. If you had told me yesterday that terrorists were going to be able to demolish those buildings, I wouldn't have believed you. And I'm not sure you can really appreciate how astounding that is unless you have - sorry, had - stood beneath those buildings where you actually had to tilt your head back a full ninety degrees so that it hurts your neck, just to see the top.
"I wonder if they'll rebuild the towers." Said Morgan, and it's easy to imagine at this point that they will rebuild it, simply because it's so hard to imagine the New York skyline without it. But my bet is that they will build a large monument there, a la Oklahoma city, in that spot in the financial district, something like a war memorial, a tourist attraction to replace a tourist attraction, for the neighborhood where George Washington was sworn into his first term, and tall, masted ships sit permanently in the harbor. I wonder how much meaning and comfort it will actually give to those who lost people today, and what the power of memorials really is. Maybe they have power, I don't know. I've never lived through something that warranted a memorial.
If we can prove the Bin Laden is responsible, as most people seem to think he is, and if Afghanistan continues to harbor him, then there is little doubt that we will go to war with Afghanistan. Other then that, not much is clear. A lot of people are dead. The Mayor doesn't want anyone going into Manhattan tomorrow who doesn't have to. The city is shaken, the financial district is shut down, and everybody is calling and emailing everybody else to make sure everybody is okay. Not everybody is okay.
They destroyed the World Trade Center.
They destroyed the World Trade Center.
If the Bush administration calls something other than war then there will be a huge backlash against arabs and people of the middle east here.
attacking civilians puts you on the same level as the terrorists, think carefully about that
also make sure you know who the enemy is, we all make mistakes... America has been there before with The Unibomber
whatever the US decides, I hope they leave the nuclear weapons out of it
I was in the car taking my daughter to daycare. I turned on Bob & Tom here in Indy, and they had Dr. Will Miller on. I usually turn them off when he's on but the first thing I heard from him was that, "The country needs to recover from this shock, and regain its sense of security," or something closely along those lines. It sounds trite and immature now, but my first thought was that some celebrity had committed suicide, or that a "reality TV" show had taken an odd twist, the usual banalities that America seems to hang baited breath on. Then they announced what had happened, and I began debating turning around and taking my daughter home. When they announced that no evacuations were taking place in Indy, I went ahead and took her to school. It sounded fishy to me that NOTHING was happening downtown, but I decided that if things were not to the point of evacuation in "target" areas, then I could take her to school. That decision tortured me all day, and still does. There were no attacks here, but my imagination and and worries are still in hyperdrive. I accomplished close to nothing at work, and am thanking God that my godmother got out of NYC OK (she wasn't near WC, but still), and that my family is safe, for now. Still doesn't alleviate the worry, I don't know that I can sleep tonight. Where is the next target? After today, nothing seems "impossible."
/.'ers in the Indianapolis area want to come? I'll be checking this de-spammified address:
BTW, I am planning on going down to Camp Atterbury this Sunday for target practice. I definitely want to put some more rounds through my M1 before I am really comfortable with it. Seems more imperative now. Any
die_goober@spammified.hotmail.com
for replies. I usually maintain a minor case of paranoia, and trips to Atterbury have a veneer of the same to start out, but we generally have a damn good time and strike up some provocative conversations with other folks on the range. We may be a bit more subdued this weekend, though. Still, unless circumstances intervene, I intend to be at the range improving my aim, and having the best time possible.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I heard on the radio today that in planes they actually have a button similar to the silent alarms they have in banks... press that button and a signal is sent out giving the airplane's identification and the message that it is currently being hijacked. Unfortunately, the pilots in today's attack didn't have a chance to press this button before they were overpowered / killed.
Condolences to those affected, then to my thoughts as outlander. These are not in any specific order and might seem a bit incoherent at times, but that should be forgiven as I'm as shocked as you are.
As for the planes:
According to flight experts back here in europe while flying the plane to a building might not require specific training for the plane type it would require experience in flying large aircraft.
Naturally the training is freely available to anyone who can pass the physical and cough out the cash.
Revenge:
While I understand the feelings you must understand that murdering people is inherently wrong, whatever you use to justify the act to yourself. Someone quoted the mess DEA gave to some drug lords after an agent was killed (without any evidence they crashed trough doors and made mess of the place) and said similar tactis should be used against terrorist harboring nations (whichever those are), now I don't like drug lords but if you start breaking your own laws you have NO right to claim any kind of moral high ground
Bush said "we make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them", now if US uses military force against civilians (they're not all terrorists in those countries, you must
realize this) then it is NO BETTER than the terrorists.
When the dust settles we'll see the full amount of dead, however it might be good idea to think for a while how many die daily in accidents and smaller scale murders, you might notice that the number if not so large when put to scale with deaths in general. NOTE: I do not have any figures right now but US is a big country, bigger than many understand, it has HUGE population which leads to high mortality numbers, put those numbers to scale.
Naturally when a lot of people get killed in terror attack it feels much worse than if they would have died in separate locations in accidents.
What i'm worried about:
That this incident will be sited over and over again when the US first passes more and more draconian laws ("land of the free", yeah right) which will be then pushed by the world police to the rest of the world as well.
I'm also worried that the fact that "when there is will there is way" is ignored or owrse hidden from the public. This was done by professionals, they propably had man or men inside at the airports where planes were hijacked (also the security in domestic flights might have been a bit lax).
You cannot stop professional terrorist unless you have infiltrated their core group, they're trained like elite military forces and propably have very much money behind them (drug cartels also have money, and private armies).
The most worry of course comes from the fact that the largely uneducated masses of US do not understand the basic facts and take this against everyone from the middle-east (remember: a person might be intelligent, groups, let alone masses are stupid, timid and easily frightened)
It might have taken 20-30 professionals and a lot of money plus some background personnel to pull this trough. 20-30 persons can be arranged to any country if you have the resources and the persons know their infiltration 1o1. Besides it's propable that many of the terrorists had already been in the US for years (infiltration 1o1 again), it's like spy networks, infiltrate, wait, strike when you feel like it.
One thing is true, the world will not be the same again.
You are naive in the extreme if you think it possible to simply capture the terrorists directly responsible and bring them to justice, as if anything you could do to them could possibly amount to a just retribution for this act. Terrorists can only exist because there are nations that tolerate -- and even condone -- their presence, and they are amazingly adept at melting into the civillian population when they want to. (This was the problem Serbia had fighting the KLA, which was also a terrorist organization and not valiant freedom fighters, whatever their apologists may say.) Whatever nation harbors the party responsible for all these deaths is equally culpable.
You bring up the old saw, "violence doesn't solve violence". Crap. Learn some history before you get all sanctimonious about violence. Violence is perfectly capable of solving all kinds of violent problems if it's persued to its necessary conclusion -- as the US did not do in Iraq, Korea, and Vietnam, but did do against Germany and Japan. What are Germany and Japan doing these days? Are they notable for violence? Is Iraq? (And is N. Korea and Vietnam, at least against their citizens and their liberties?)
And the brethren went away edified.
but when i read 'eye witness account' i was hoping for more than 'i heard sirens and saw some smoke or something' and complaints about how he didnt get to testify in the hearing. I know we all hate the MPAA and all, but there is a right time to Fight The Power and a wrong time.
no you idiot, you don't need a rewrite but just to add some functionnality.
I remember I was half-awake listening to the radio in my bed (you know, when you're kind of lying there trying to get the energy to wake up) when the newsman was arguing with someone about the lack of information about a plane crash or something. A few moments later, he said something about "two planes instead of one". That deffinitely got my attention. Then he added, "both World Trade Center towers are in flame right now". That woke me up FAST.
/. article: Excellent time to become a missing person. *Shiver*
I ran to the TV and turned it on, trying to find out what had happened, several minutes after the second impact. I told my father, who was getting ready to go to work, and then the rest of my family woke up, too.
I remember trying to find out what the fsck had happened, and obviously all of the news websites were overloaded... thankfully Slashdot was up and running (although a bit slow at times). I was switching between the TV and the PC, and I recall watching in disbelief as one of the towers collapsed. It really looked as a Hollywood movie. Then we started listening to the rumours: 8 planes hijacked, the Pentagon hit, Camp David attacked, San Francisco and Colorado, a car bomb in the Dept of State. An hour later, the second tower collapsed.
Me and my friends on ICQ started trading URLs trying to find out what was happening, while my family was trying to contact an uncle whose daughter was in NY on her honeymoon. I spent most of the day glued to the TV and the PC, wondering what was going to happen next.
Not even the news thay my city (Monterrey) was getting flooded after torrential rains could compare to the disaster in NY and Washington. Even the local stations split the time informing about the floods and the attack.
Our deepest condolences go out to the american people, from the people of Mexico (at least from everyone I know). I hope we can send you (if we haven't already) the rescue teams that have been in constant training ever since the Mexico City quake in '85.
Hang in there.
Scary signature at the bottom of this
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
Learning to fly, Pink Floyd.
Two things - can anyone talk about them?????
.binaries. Usenet newsgroups, there have been a number of postings that end with a paragraph of nonsense - a set of sentences that were grammatically correct but made up of seemly randomly chosen words (e.g.., "Cars held no glances without mess"). Could those postings have been a steganographic message?
Over the past few days in the
Second, I haven't been hearing much about what CNN was showing from Afghanistan - weren't we seeing something flying in in the darkness??
To see pics I took, go to http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~mphipps/
Message 23 seems pretty interesting too. "Truly, you only see what you want to see, and for this reason, people must be destroyed, because although they can see, they are yet blind." Truly freaky shit.
Of course, any numerologists in the audience might now be totally freaked out by the fact that messages 7 and 23 are significant...
Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow.
Seems to be getting worse here in NYC. As they are showing bloody people on TV, and zooming in on footage of people falling from the buildings. Someone said they saw a couple holding hands leap from one of the towers to their death. I'm not going to even mention what a reporter said she saw lying about. This is when it gets really disturbing... when people start reporting what they've seen and the wreckage is sorted through. Still, it was reported that someone wrote "this will not stop new york" in soot on a car or something... I think it is time for me to stop watching the news though. :(
This is a portion of an e-mail I *JUST* got from a buddy of mine (who happens to work for CNN) in NYC .. about a friend of mine in WTC ..[whom i was trying to reach all day.]
Maybe I can at least sleep a few hours now.
......
"I just spoke to Paulie...which I spent all day calling. He is very
shaken, but he is okay. He is upset becuase his brother who was off and
is NYPD had to go to the building and has not gotten back to his family.
My buddy James was in the building a few floors beneath the second plane
crash and made it out....
Anyway, Paulie and I will be there...I will talk later during the week
becuase tomorrow and the next few days are gopnna be hell at work
CD
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:48:39 -0400
writes:
> i read your e-mail before i saw the news.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:09 PM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx@bdk.com
> Subject: Trip
>"
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
* Jews attack the Arabs.
* Arabs attack the Jews.
* We don't give money to the Jews.
* Arabs wipe Israel of the planet.
* Arabs praise Allah.
Now we're the good guys?
Which of the following would you prefer:
1) We keep giving just enough money for Israel to fight, thus perpetuating the war until the end of time.
2) We give enough money to Israel so that they can wipe the Arabs off the planet.
3) We stop giving money and let the Arabs wipe Israel off the planet.
Its multiple choice. Tell me which one you like best, then justify your answer.
I live in Battery Park City, which is only a couple of blocks away from the Trade Center. I was running late to work this morning so I didn't have the TV on. I heard a plane go by and then a really loud BOOM that caused my whole apartment to shake. It's not unusual to hear planes or helicopters near where I am because of charters tours around the Statue of Liberty and the news copters, so the first thing that crossed my mind was that it was some type of plane going fast that had a sonic boom. I remember being kind of mad thinking that the fact my apartment shook validated why planes aren't allowed to fly supersonically over land. A few minutes later, the exact same thing happened. Again, I thought it was a sonic boom. I know that I was being really naive, but an explosion never crossed my mind. I turned on the TV and saw the pictures of the buildings burning and then I started hearing the sirens.
The news said that my usual subway, the N/R, was shut down, so I called my boss and said that I would catch the 4/5 if it was running or work from home. It didn't even occur to me that I was in danger and it never crossed my mind that the buildings would collapse. I left my apartment to go to the 4/5 and all kinds of people were standing in the street taking pictures of the building and looking at what was happening. There were people crying and shouting into cell phones trying to find loved ones. The emotion was so overwhelming. Cops came by and told us to move back into Battery Park proper (by the Statue of Liberty) in case something happened. I walked to the park and went in the 4/5 subway entrance. Down there, I started hearing people talk about the Pentagon and a false report about the White House. I started to worry and wonder where the safest place was to be. I didn't want to get trapped in the subway, but I thought my other option of walking over the Brooklyn Bridge sounded dangerous, too. The other option was staying by the Statue of Liberty, which didn't seem safe, either. While I'm waiting for the subway deciding what to do, I heard a loud explosion and the lights went out.
I ran out of the subway to see what happened and everyone was running and screaming. I had no idea what happened, but I thought I should just start running too. About 5 minutes later when people stopped, I asked someone near me what happened and she said that the building collapsed. About 5 minutes after that, we got hit by a dense cloud of smoke and everyone started panicking and running again. The ash was like it was snowing and you couldn't see your hand in front of your face. I ran to the Staten Island Ferry building with the crowd and started freaking out about what to do. At that point, noone had any idea where was safe. A girl pulled me into one of the bathrooms, told me to calm down, and that we at least would have clean air there. We waited there about a 1/2 hour until the air cleared. The men took off their undershirts and I took out my gym clothes, we ripped them up, and used them to cover our mouths and noses.
I made my way to our Wall St. office, called my family, and emailed my address book, letting people know I was OK. All of my coworkers were in Brooklyn, so a random person from another team invited me home with her. We walked to her place on 23rd Street. I was amazed at how nice people were -- there was no profiteering, people were giving out water and food to all of us refugees trying to find shelter in uptown.
I spent the afternoon at her house watching news reports. I called my apartment complex and they said it is closed until further notice because they need to inspect it for structural defects. My boss was kind enough to offer to put me up in Long Island, so that's where I am for the night. There was an awful incident on the LIRR on my way here where some crazy people were going up and down the train threatening anyone who wasn't white. They were asking them if they were Islamic and from the Middle East. One man said he was Indian and Christian, but they still almost beat him up.
I have no idea when I will have a home again and what things will be like over the next few days. I am just grateful that I am alive and humbled by the number of calls and emails I have received from people who love me and were worried. My heart is with the rescue workers and with the families of those who are missing or dead.
When violence rules the world outside / And the headlines make me want to cry / It's not the time to just keep quiet
Hmmmm.
The right to bear arms against the government?
<irony>Isn't that terrorism?</irony>
-=- Say it with flowers. Send a Triffid. -=-
I have a very close cousin (more like a brother) in NY who was out on a stag last night. As a result he slept through his alarm clock this morning, woke up late, was rushing to work, and was about 5 blocks away when the first plane hit.
He worked in the Tower.
By all accounts it looked like the first jet went right through his office window.
He was in shock for a while (go figure), and when he finally made it back home, he was pretty screwed up. He was a mess, and quite honestly, hugely overcome with guilt about having survived.
Our family had to make sure that someone was with him, because he sounded quite suicidal. (We live in Vancouver, BC, Canada, so it's not possible for us even to plan to see him any time soon). Our phone has been in almost constant use talking to him and other members of our family.
My main concern is now what happens to him? His office mates are gone. His job is gone. He has come (quite understandibly) a little unglued, to put it politely. Personally, I hope he gets through it OK, regardless of how long it takes.
For that matter, as selfish as it may sound, I hope I make it through this. As much as I feel for the people that are missing or worse, my main concern, and the closest point of contact I have to the whole situation is my cousin, and right now he is the only one that I can think of.
Sometimes life really sucks.
PS: To reitterate what a number of others have said, be sure that Canada's thoughts are with everyone affected by this. Vancouver was pretty much shut down today because everyone was walking around in a state of disbelief.
$0.02 (CDN)
Very good point.
Maybe there are times when we just don't know what to do. The conflict is more than 3,000 years old. If it was easy to know what to do, someone would have done something already.
We should not think that every time we don't know what else to do, we should engage in violence.
Bush's education improvements were
The thing that hit home most for me was the comment you made about the plane overhead. That happened to me, too. This morning, I heard both explosions and thought nothing of it. I just thought it was a sonic boom. Two hours later, the sound of a plane flying overhead made my coworkers and me freeze in our tracks. Its amazing what can change in two hours.
When violence rules the world outside / And the headlines make me want to cry / It's not the time to just keep quiet
No, that's self-defense. The presentation of one's cause through the terrorizing of others is terrorism.
To put it another way, if the people are unable to fight back, what is to prevent the government from controlling the news at $WEAPON_OF_THE_DAY-point, and extracting abject obedience from the people at $WEAPON_OF_THE_DAY-point?
But this strays from the topic at hand, even farther than before.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Here's an e-mail that I just got from my dad, edited from all caps to pass the lameness filter.
i'm fine. this is al. was able to escape the devastation. it was close though. there were bodies raining down from the sky, people screaming for help and others running from shear panick. there was smoke everywhere. you could not see your hands in front of you face. i just come out of the trade center, was about to get onto the next train under the two building(twin tower number 2) when i saw the tail end of plane vanishing into the building on the ninetieth floor. i though oh geez some pilot doesn't know where he or she is going. as i looked up debris began to fall. i quickly vanished beneath the building and down the escalator. i was going the wrong way. i was going where bad things were about to happen. nevertheless; it was the place where i'd just come out of. train didn't take off immediately. we sat there underground under building 2 for awile. there was a second explosion. i didn't want to wait any longer, so i ran out onto the street where i though it'll be safe. i was wrong. there were concrete, soot, dust, white dust, and bodies flying all over the place. i looked up to flames and a gaping hole on the ninetieth floor. i began walking as fast as i could, away from the trade center. it was too late though. i walked 15 blocks to 14th street and immediately went underground again into the subway. i had to find my way out of new york city as quickly as i could. i caught amtrak going to new jersey. i hopped on it and made it out. devastated, shaken, scared to death.
When I saw the news footage of the second plane crashing into the WTC, the first thing I thought of was the movie The Siege, when terrorists hijacked a bus. One guy said something like "These guys aren't waiting for the negotiators, they're waiting for the cameras." I couldn't help but think that they planned a staggered attack rather than a simultaneous one just so there would be footage of that building going up in flames with the second impact.
When violence rules the world outside / And the headlines make me want to cry / It's not the time to just keep quiet
XML causes global warming.
"2) We give enough money to Israel so that they can wipe the Arabs off the planet.
"3) We stop giving money and let the Arabs wipe Israel off the planet."
Another thought: This war has been going on for 3,300 years!!! If they haven't "wiped" each other "off the planet" by now, they are unlikely to do it in the next few years.
I don't like any of the violence. But it is better to admit we don't know what to do than become violent ourselves.
Bush's education improvements were
The right to bear arms against the government?
<irony>Isn't that terrorism?</irony>
Uh....no. No, as a matter of fact it isn't.
Terrorism:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Terrorism is an attack against people/property not governments. It is often used to sway governments but it is not an attack on them. Yes, one of the planes attacked the pentagon, but even that was not an attack on the govt. Attacking the pentagon has a dramatic fear/panic affect on people who expect the govt, particularly the military arm, to be able to protect itself. If they can't even protect the pentagon it leaves sheeple feeling vulnerable.
The plan was not to USE the weapons against our government. Not unless it was absolutely necessary. The plan was for them to be a deterrent for agressors, both foreign and domestic.
"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
--James Madison
Had an announcement on the local (Boise, Idaho, USA) news this evening. Albertsons (a big Western USA grocery store chain) will be putting disaster relief donation boxes at their cash registers starting tommorrow. Will match up to $50,000 as well.
Try to keep a level head. Remember Richard Jewell. First impressions aren't always right.
My 2c.
To put it another way, if the people are unable to fight back, what is to prevent the government from controlling the news at $WEAPON_OF_THE_DAY-point, and extracting abject obedience from the people at $WEAPON_OF_THE_DAY-point?
I stand corrected.
Civil war, then. Just as insane.
But I agree, this is getting off topic.
-=- Say it with flowers. Send a Triffid. -=-
I am one of the most peaceful kind people you will ever meet. I hate to see people or animals suffer. I consider myself open-minded, living outside of the states for years and seeing other ways. I almost consider myself a hippy. But after the events of today, here is what I have to say:
All of you anti-US and would be terrorist bastards out there.. Know this: even my kind (peaceful) are behind our government nuking you motherf!ckers at this point. All you sick f@cks in Egypt, Saudi, etc that are laughing and celebrating in the streets: I hope that Navy Seals and Green Barets are on their way to make chowder out of you f!ckbags. I'm very close to enlisting and becoming a bomber pilot to bomb you sh!tbags into paste.
All of America wants your blood....can you feel it?
Be prepared to meat Alah motherf@ckers!!
I woke up to the voice of the bus driver as we came out of the battery tunnel. She said that a small plane had flown into the World Trade Center. As we made the turn onto the West Side Highway, people pressed their faces to the window to stare at the hole near the top of the tower. There was a lot of smoke, and flames deep in the hole left by the plane.
Okay, so someone flying a small plane lost control, and hit one of the towers. Pretty incredible considering there's water all around the tip of the island, and any pilot worth his salt would probably try to avoid such a target. I just hoped there weren't many people up there...
The bus door opens. I stop staring at the hole, and get off the bus with most of the other passengers. At this point, we're about 4 blocks from the south tower. Some people were playing it cool, as New Yorkers are wont to do - we'll just walk to the train and get to work. After all, we've seen pretty much all there is to see. Right?
A few minutes later, another jet roars overhead, and plows into the second tower. It looked kind of like it tried to change course at the last second - the plane sort of banked as it approached the tower. The plane semmed to disappear into the building, and a half second later, a fireball appears in it's place. People who were facing the tower turned and ran screaming in the other direction. I was standing there, like an idiot, totally agape at what I'd just witnessed. It just didn't feel real. How could this happen here? Did some air traffic controller screw up? Nah, couldn't be... Pilots aren't dumb enough to fly into the tallest buildings in the area anyway, besides, LGA and JFK are miles away, and no one could ever confuse lower Manhattan for an airport for christ's sake. Besides, this guy's flying in the wrong direction! What the hell is going on?
There's a few hundred people running toward Battery Park. Guess I'd better go that way, and avoid getting trampled. So I ran, stopping with some other folks occasionally to look back at the building. We get to the entrance of the park, and workers apparently from the Millenium Hilton right next to the WTC were crying, and shouting for their co-workers. Some people speculated on the types of planes.
I make my way to an office building on Broadway where I used to work. I sit and chat with some former co-workers for a while, and try . After a while, we head back out to go down to radio shack down the block for a antenna for the TV in the office - there's no cable, and we have no idea what's happening. We get there, and radio shack is closed. Oh well. On the way back to the office, there's the sound of another explosion. I stop, not knowing where the sound came from exactly - my first thought was a bomb in the subway at Cortland St., right under the south tower. Within seconds, smoke billows out onto Broadway, and chases people into the alleys and back toward the park.
We end up near Whitehall St. The subways are closed, but there's no way I'd get on one now anyway. Remember Tokyo? There's ash and soot everywhere, and I take off my shirt to cover my nose and mouth. It's not really helping much, plus the stuff is getting in my eyes so it's hard to see anything. We duck into a small pizza joint, where a few people are trading stories. One guy had just gotten off the train before the collapse. Lucky guy, because the train he was on stops right underneath the towers. We get some water, and the owner shuts the place down, and we head out toward the Brooklyn Bridge. The FDR was shut down to traffic, and people were packed tight onto one of the ramps. It looked like things were moving pretty slowly, so we took the long way. It's not that much further to the bridge when you walk past the seaport.
I guess that's the end of the interesting part. From there, I walked home. It's a long walk to Bay Ridge from the bridge. Some people were taking pictures of the scene from the bridge. Some other people were walking in the other direction, _toward the city!_ What the hell were they thinking?
Right now, I hear an occasional jet flying over. It feels good to know they're there.
If there was one good aspect of all this, it was the way New Yorkers came together to help each other through it. As we passed the South St. Seaport and Fulton Fish, workers handed out paper towels, napkins and held open water hoses for people passing by. It brought out the best in a lot of people, and it makes me proud to call myself a New Yorker.
Just the same, it's gonna be hard getting to sleep tonight.
This makes me think of the story of the guy who called his wife from Mt. Everest as he was freezing to death. I belive there were other climbers maybe hundreds of meters away. It's humbling and frustrating to realize that sometimes such seemingly trivial distances can be insurmountable.
From the coverage I've been seeing (and it's 2:23 AM local time here in NYC) there isn't much debris being removed yet - I think they said it was simply too hot to stay in long enough. Never mind the stability of the remaining buildings in the area. They've recently gotten out two Port Authority officers, but hundreds of NYC police officers are missing, as are hundreds of fire fighters.
I'm just totally blown away. I can't get out of my head the sight of the second tower falling - or earlier, from much closer, of both buildings on fire with gaping holes.
i hate those fuckin' weirdos.
So you don't let someone take a gun on a plane unless they show their carry permit, for which they have to show that they know how to put the safety on, drop the clip, and clear the chamber.
Incidentally, it would take rather more than a hole in the floor to depressurize the plane. If a bullet hit a window, then sure, the plane would depressurize.
The idea of a whole plane load of passengers being subdued by a handful of nutcases armed only with knives is so absurd it defies belief.
In the worst case, if there's a fire fight on board an aircraft, everyone on the plane dies. We just learned today that that isn't the worst that can happen.
Next time I get on a plane, I want at least 20% of my fellow passengers armed.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I have been to the World Trade Center many times. I had clients in the building that I would visit whenever I was in the New York area.
Walking around lower Manhattan, it's hard to miss the towers... they're easily visible from nearly everywhere.
I would see them every day, in absolute awe at first and then taking them for-granted, as is so easy to do.
From this moment forward, every time I am in New York I will have a constant reminder of this day. Every time I look in the direction of those familiar towers, they will not be there.
I sincerely hope the towers are rebuilt as a testament to our resolve as a nation.
We must not and cannot let those who perished today do so in vain.
All opinions presented here aren't mine.
>And now JCR suggests that this person should've 'been packin'
No, I'm suggesting that YOU, and other *responsible* parties should have 'been packin', as you so dismissively put it.
You'd be amazed at how suddenly a raging thug can calm down when he notices that granny across the aisle has drawn down on him.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Please mod this up, as I feel my collection and connection is one of the best out there [bucknell.edu]: http://www.students.bucknell.edu/ekrout/images/911 _In_America/images/gallery/
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
I was of the impression that El Al had never had a hijacking. It would appear that they've had *one* hijacking, and no more since placing armed guards on very flight.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The point is that people cannot be thought to have chosen violence when they do not come close to understanding the issues.
Bush's education improvements were
It takes about 30 seconds of research to realize that jet fuel burns at 1800-2000F, and that the Boeing 767-200 caries 16000 gallons of it.
These people were not intelligent or sophisticated. They were merely madmen, who figured out that if you get on a big plane that's fully loaded with fuel, as it would be to fly cross-country, and you fly it into a building, shit happens.
Don't glorify the skills of these cowards, especially when any high school senior could tell you that this will succeed.
If anybody here deserves to be modded up, its you.
CNN has footage of the 1st plane attack!
avalible in Quicktime, Real, and WiMP
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
These people should be nuked back to the stone age...
The laws of Physics are against this. Nuclear bombs work on cities. In the countryside, a 100 Megaton bomb does surprisingly little damage. The damage spreads only about 15 miles from the center of the blast.
In the mountains, as in Afghanistan, the energy of a nuclear blast would be deflected upward.
Nuclear blasts also make all the air everyone breathes radioactive. Thus everyone is punished, even people who haven't been born yet.
"These are not people, they are animals, and should be treated as such."
The U.S. killed 2,100,000 people in Vietnam and maybe 150,000 people in Iraq. The U.S. has bombed 14 countries in 30 years, killing a roughly estimated 3,000,000 people. None of the people who were killed were in any way directly threatening the U.S.
Does that make us animals?
Bush's education improvements were
I wasnt there, but a friend was. His account, with names anonymized... hope he wont be offended by me posting it...
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 11:02 PM
I don't think I've come to terms with what I have witnessed today. The only thing I can do to try to come to some closure on this is to try and document what I saw on the darkest day in recent history.
Today started out quite ordinarily. C**** and I were scheduled for Sun Fire training on the 20th floor of the World Trade Center at 9AM. Certainly not very noteworthy in and of itself.
I got to the office at 7. C**** arrived 15 minutes late. I grumbled to myself about being on time and missing out on 15 minutes of sleep, but I kept to myself. Traffic was horrible, as usual, and we made our way to the Path station in Jersey City.
We got on the Path to the World Trade Center- probably it was about 8:40 or so. Nothing to comment on. I hate the Path. Its dark, dingy, but C**** swears by it so I didn't complain. We exited in the World Trade Center station and I noticed immediately a strange diesel fuel-like smell and a haze in the air. I jokingly thought maybe someone was running a bus in the station. Now, New Yorkers walk fast, but I noticed that people were moving along quite a bit faster than usual. The transit cops down there said there was a fire, and that everyone needed to quickly exit. I wasn't too panicky, but I expeditiously made my way towards the exit.
We escaped into daylight into quite a commotion. We turned around and looked up to see a gaping hole in the tower and flames streaming out. Quite a shocking sight. We were forced a few blocks away where C**** and I were staring at the tower bewildered but not overly concerned. We were cracking jokes about the training being cancelled and missing meetings and stuff. I was thinking that I wish I had my camera to take some pictures. All the fun and games came to a halt when people started jumping to their deaths. I don't quite know how to describe what that looks like. It really looks like someone threw a large rag doll- it doesn't look real at all. After watching a few people jump it was then I realized that this was not at all fun and games. I heard in the crowd that a plane had struck the tower. Not surprising to me at all. I've been on the observation deck, everyone knows that you look down on the planes as they fly near the city on landing approach. Surely, this was a tragic and horrific accident. Too many damn planes in the air I remember thinking, it was bound to happen eventually. Of course, I heard the mumblings 'deliberately' and 'terrorists' but I dismissed those. You know how paranoid New Yorkers are.
It was about that time that tower 2 spontaneously exploded right before our horrified eyes. I?m only 2 or 3 blocks south of the tower and what I saw was like something out of Die Hard or Terminator. Trust me, they got the effect right. As we all stood there staring, it seemed like an eternity as the tower was engulfed in a ball of flame. It wasn't until a few milliseconds later that the massive concussion wave stuck the dumbfounded crowd and I realized in that instant that I was probably going to be killed by falling chunks. Everyone did the worlds fastest 180 degree turn and ran for their lives. I saw C**** slip into the building directly behind us. The door closed and was magnetically locked behind him. I pulled on the handle in a futile attempt to follow, but realized that it wasn't going to budge. Then I really thought that was the end. I ran towards the next building, which I saw had a little cranny behind a 6 or 7 foot tall iron fence. In an instant I saw my shelter from the falling debris. I was over that fence so quickly I don't even know how I did it. I fell to the concrete on the other side, and scrambled into the little masonry
shield with my back towards the Twin Towers. I waited for gravity to do its magic and bring all the deadly missiles safely to earth. I realized in my hiding spot that I cut my hand and my leg was hurting like nobody's business. I also realized that there was no reason that an accidental crash into tower 1 would cause tower 2 to explode. This was serious- if the intention was to bring down the tower, I would not be in a very good spot to survive such an event. Once it was clear that the immediate danger passed, I walked out of my shelter and turned to see tower 2 burning. Time to go. I continued south, limping all the way to the entrance to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
I was hurting, but alive and far enough from the Towers to be ok. Next order of business: Get the hell home. How? Terrorists attack buildings, bridges, tunnels? but probably not the ferries. The Water Taxi that docks at the Trade Center was probably blown up, I figured, so I had to head up north to the NY Waterway ferry. I knew it was a hike but the most likely exit from the city to be unaffected. So I licked my wounds and made my way northeast, staying out of collapse radius for the towers. As I crossed the area directly east of the Towers, I saw bits of what was obviously airplane parts and some chunks of building. No doubt about it, it was an airplane. I continued limping my way northeast and then northwest, to catch up with the West Side Highway where the NY Waterway is. I?m not sure how far it was. I couldn't walk very quickly and needed to stop frequently. I tried many times to call home, the office, C****- without success.
I walked north on the walkway, parallel to the West Side Highway. I don't know how many hundred emergency vehicles I saw- they just kept coming. I walked with countless thousands of the living dead. I remember reading accounts of the Hiroshima survivors, as they made their way, bleeding and burned, to the river. I am the living dead, a ghost, walking silently away from the disaster behind me. I recall hearing a strange whooshing noise, and I turned around and watched the first tower vanish in a cloud of dust. I remember saying out loud something to the effect of 'Well, they finally did it, congratulations!' Not very poetic, I must admit.
It turns out that the ferry was the way to go. The NY Waterway was totally overloaded. So much to the point that the floating dock became unstable which caused a minor panic. Fortunately the Circle Line and other tour boats began taking on passengers. I managed to get on the second ferry out and made our way back over to Lincoln Harbor back over in Weehawken. I didn't care where it went, as long as it was in New Jersey.
Half way out in the river, we had to wait as the other ferries unloaded people. We sat dead in the water. The dust of what was the Twin Towers billowing out in the background. The eerie silence of no airplanes in the air. It was as if the world had died and we were in limbo. All I could do was bow my head and think about the countless individuals who were just killed before my eyes. And of course, how grateful I was to be a little beaten up but alive. I was able to eventually get messages to home and the office, I found out that C**** was OK and everyone was worried to death of course.
I've witnessed The Hindenburg, Pearl Harbor, and Hiroshima in one. It's quite a mind numbing experience. I haven't quite figured out what to feel. I'm not at all a religious man, but today, I prayed for those we lost, and I was thankful for my very life. Certainly, I've managed to clear my schedule- and certainly it puts things into a more realistic perspective.
September 11, 2001 is certainly a date which will live in infamy. I don't think neither I nor this nation will ever be the same
again.
Are they going to ban those too?
Paul.
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
I'm afraid that if it turns out to be Bin Laden, the US will drop a nuke on afghanistan, or invade the country.. I wholeheartedly agree with Dutch Prime Minister Wim Kok who said: "I speak out the strong wish that see the chance, especially now, to react with dignity to this humiliation. We must stand up straight for democracy and human rights"
What nobody wants is a WW3..
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
I mean, if you were a terrorist, what's the gain in having the building collapse on itself when you can have it tip and destroy a line of 400 yards behind it?
Just speculating.
> Note that airlines from Israel always have at least one
> armed plainclothes official onboard. You don't hear
> about them getting hijacked very often, do you?
Correction:
You don't hear about them being hijacked at all.
I did not suggest to take away people's guns, I own hand guns myself and regularly rank in the best ten .357 Magnum marksmen in the country, and I agree with you that stricter gun control would not technically prevent terror; no technical or tactical measures can do that.
However, my point is that at least honestly trying to keep automatic weapons out of the hands of children in third world countries instead of selling gun manufacturing plants on loan to everybody and his brother might be one step to save a few lifes in a third world country, which in turn, may lead to less terror in maybe 20 or 30 years from now.
A recipe against Governments murdering their own citizens is to get their responsible leader's and lock them up in a prison forever, and not to let them in power like Saddam Hussein for the sake of balancing power in the region and play games with them for a decade.
An international law and international courts IMHO is the best solution for that; however, the U.S. is the most important political opponent against such a solution and has even threated the international court to free U.S. citizens using its military if they would be tried. This U.S. "we are above international law, we are the international law" - attitude is probably today's largest obstacle to fight crime committed by people acting on behalf of governments.
Instead, the U.S. tries to be the Lawmaker, the Judge and the Police in one person, which alone is not a good idea. And keeping over 90% of the world population from participating in making these laws, and a not very nice track record of the U.S. as international citizen might explain the distrust in this self appointment even more.
p.
Without order, nothing can exist. Without chaos, nothing can be created.
Dude, that can't be an actual quote as it's not Japanese. Try
Nekubi o kite wa ikenai
instead.
"It's impossible to imagine the hate that could drive anyone or any group to do such a horrible thing"
No, its actually pretty easy. Just imagine that someone invaded america, kicked you all out, and gave the land to another group of people. Whenever you went near your former home to protest or throw stones, you would be shot, attacked with rockets etc. Multiply it by about 50 years. Then you`d be close to understanding why Palestinians arent too impressed to Isreal, and the people who arm it.
Multiply that by any number of other nations who have suffered the consequences of American foreign policy.
Time to pay more attention to the news, and to your elected leaders.
I don't discredit the previous post in any way, but I am of the opinion that there is the possibilty that this is not as well planned as it seems. What if the attack was merely intended to fly a plane at a landmark, or three of them? What if there are no internationals responsibe, and someone inside the states just wanted to make a bang. It is reported that the hijackers weapons were fairly crude, not reminiscent of a well planned operation. These could be american people just trying to make a statement.
At the outset I want to say that I sympathise with the families of the dead in this attack. I know a lot of you are going to flame me for this but the truth is that the USA had this sort of an attack coming for it. Consider the reasons below...
1) America now lists Osama Bin Laden in its most wanted list. However in the 70s the US ACTUALLY supplied him and his men with weapons - helicopters, Stinger missiles etc. At that time he was fighting the former USSR occupation of Afghanistan. In fact he was considered to be a friend of the US. In order to fulfil short-terms goals the US always arms merceneries in different parts of the world. Then it has no right to complain if the same nuts turn against it.
2) Lets face it! Israel treatment of the Palestinians is totally unfair. It has occupied territories which belong to them. When the Palestinians rebel the Israelis use Tanks, gunships etc to mercilessly slaughter them.(In case your wondering, No I'm not Arab)
But America continues to support the Israelis. Even in the negotiations America tends to side with Israel. In such a scenario its natural for Arabs to be frustrated with the United States and resort to things like this.
Maybe the American government should re-evalute its own policy before passing judgement on the Intifada
Suck my cock. You pussies are what makes terrorists feel safe enough to do shit like this.
The U.S. response at the time of Pearl Harbor was to be the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons, causing genetic damage that continued long after Japan became a favored trading partner of the U.S.
...it was an attempt to stop a long, viscious expansionist campain on the part of the Japanese imperialist government.
The Japanese at the time were steamrollering through asia and the south pacific. They killed millions and millions of people, the vast majority of whom were civilians. Not only were they attacking and occupying places, but they were following a policy of terrorizing the people of the occupied contries that involved the conspicuous bloody murders of hundreds of thousands of people in public. Think I'm exaggerating? Go to China, or Korea, or the Phillipines, and ask them what they think about the Japanese then and now. As far as many are concerned (myself included), they were worse than the nazis back then.
I think that our country's use of the atomic bombs was meant to put an end to this kind of insanity. The attacks were a calculated attempt to end the war with as few casualties as possible. It is unfortunate that they chose civilian targets, but I can't imagine what else they could have chosen that would have had such an impact. The real tragedy, in my opinion, is that they didn't consider the possible social and political fallout of the atom bomb on our world after the war was over.
To make this more relevant: if we could somehow remove the current threat in one or two strikes, it would be much better than either "turning the other cheek" or starting some kind of low intensity counterintelligence war. Unforntunately, this looks very unlikely.
p.s.
Jews and Arabs got along reasonably well for hundreds of years. Jews largely thrived inside Islamic states, whereas they were bullied and persecuted throughout most of Europe. The current state of conflict between these cultures is relatively recent.
Fortunately this did not happen to me, but last year my father was killed by a psycho. A man climbed over the fence of his garden when he was ouside and started to shoot at him with a silenced gun. Fortunenately my father managed to get into the house and lock the door before he died mortally wounded with several hits in his chest, of which one penetrated his heart. The killer continued shooting through the looked door and through a window in order to kill my father's wife, who has closely witnessed the scene through the open, but lattice-secured window. She survived unharmed, but it's hard to describe and imagine the horror she went throught the last year after this event.
After a few months a suspect was arrested, who has yet to stand trial. The motiv is still unknown, however there is enough evidence for a 95% probability that this guy did it.
I had been thinking a lot about what I might do, of course I thought of revenge, and imagined how it would be to kill this guy, and what would be an appropriate punishment or treatment for such a person, and I imagined a lot of really bad things to do with guy.
However, the first thing that became clear to me was that by killing this guy myself I would become a murderer. Don't take me wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to kill in self defense or to stop someone who is trying to kill, but to kill someone if you don't have to is just plain murder.
I dont want to be a murderer; do you ?
I also thought about what punishment I would prefer for guy:
locked up for 20 years
life sentence
the death penalty.
I ended up with prefering 20 years or life, to give this guy the opportunity to think about what he has done for a long time, and of course to keep him away from society.
Nobody deserves to suffer from killing this guy; have you ever thought about what the executioners go through ?
And what damage it does to someones soul (emotional life) if he has to kill someone slow and intentionally ? How about the right of "Pursuit of Happiness" of the executioner ?
Regarding the "free room and board" I think that a country like the U.S. might easily afford that, and that the costs of an execution are probably much higher, in terms of money, and in terms of many human and social values.
I have seen and talked to people who served a 20 year sentence, and I did not fear any of them; they were just a shade of what they must have been 20 years before; and I talked to professionals working in judiciary, and they said that after 6 or 7 years in prison almost everyone starts to crack; there are very few that are either so strong or so sick that they are still dangerous after 20 years.
The real "punishment" component of the death penalty as practiced in the U.S. seems to be time in the death cell where the people are intentionally kept in the fear of beeing executed every single day by performing a kind of preparation ritual.
In case of terrorist who want to die you even reward these people, transforming them into immortal martyrs if you send them to your "hell", which is their heaven. You just get yourself a bit closer to hell.
p.
Without order, nothing can exist. Without chaos, nothing can be created.
Come on people, Katz was an eyewitness too, and he regularily writes for Slashdot. You're all just trolling like usual. And at a time like this.. sheesh.
Yeah, you're so funny.
I think you have some serious problems. Maybe you should see a shrink. Seriously, get your head sorted out.
Was shaving when girlfriend said "The radio says there's an explosion at the World Trade Center." Went to front room, saw flames near top of center, huge smoke plume. Switched on TV. Announcers saying it was a plane, but probably a small one, speculating that somehow "faulty airport radar" had sent it into the building - totally absurd on a crystal clear morning. Was turned away from window when heard the boom of the second jet hitting. Looked out to see small mushroom cloud rising from impact. Lose broadcast TV except for CBS station with backup transmitter on Empire State - switch to even more vapid newscasters now talking about "possible terrorist attack," as if there's still room for doubt, and also speculating about some flaw in air traffic control that just might be sending jets into the towers. The first tower falls, and a gray cloud sweeps through the spaces between the skyscrapers of lower Manhattan. The smoke plume is immense for the rest of the day, with occassional office papers falling miles away in Brooklyn. At diner for dinner waitress says because of a fight with her by phone last week her brother had not come back from Florida the day before, and had not been at his office in one of the Towers.
Okay, hackers, here's the challenge: Osama bin Laden is said to have hundreds of millions of dollars to pay for this kind of thing. Some reader here may know which offshore banks he keeps it in. Please, please let us and the government know, so that action might be taken against those bankers and the nations that harbor them.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
to err. is human
but i understand your point - for me its wrong to legally kill people, that don't 'fit' in our society. it's definetly wrong, and won't stop others from commiting the same crimes. psychos dont think about the consequences of their doing. they often have lost everything and see no way out, sadly for some of them get into a viscious circle of hatered, and start to kill people.
but no death penalty can either get the lives of the victims back, or cope with the fact that such people exist.
in the end death penalty just tries to cover those people under the floor, people that were a part of our society, and are a product of our society.
the same goes out to those terrorists. THEY HAVE BEEN PRODUCED BY US. FOREIGN POLITICS
time to step back and look at the whole
Nothing smells like the work of lynch mob, the morning after!
Something I've never experieced before, walking through the dorms of my campus at the University of New Hampshire, everyone was quite. There was no noise, no yelling. Radios were not on, people were not laughing or telling stories about the night before. Everyone had the television on. Everyone watching the same scenes over and over again. A few were on their phones tried to get in touch with loved ones both near the tragity and far from it. Everyone was just watching and waiting, for what even I still don't know.
We must avoid blame for a time, and give praise for those that died. We must remember who they were, friends, family, Americans.
The support I've seen here and everywhere fills me with a hope that we will survive this terrible experience not scared for what is next but willing to deal, with a level head, what is to come.
Thanks! Not knowing Japanese, I just copy-and-pasted when I found from searching.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Do you live in Akihabara? I used to live in Roppongi, and Shinagawa. Sundays were always fun in Akihabara.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Another one:
Mr. Spey
Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
More likely they were just told to hit it dead center or thereabouts. It's not like highly excited, unskilled "pilots" flying a sluggish jet over other buildings could have been more precise anyway.
The author said this was free to pass on:
ON THE BEACH by M.J. Rose
Tod's Point - Greenwich CT-. When you are jogging in this 147-acre park there is a spot you pass at the half way mark when you come around a bend and on a clear day - like today - you can see the whole gleaming skyline of Manhattan.
Except this morning there was something that seemed wrong.
There were two smokestacks on the horizon in a place there never had been smokes stacks before. And it took a minute - a long minute - to figure out that the smoke was billowing out from the World Trade Towers.
About twenty yards up ahead a few people had congregated and I stopped to ask what had happened.
Their news was swift and delivered in short sentences.
At that point in time both Towers were still standing. And so we stood. All strangers gathered on an outcropping of rock, watching a scene that did not make sense.
And then a woman ran up and began to climb those rocks. She was crying and her movements were frantic. She could not get close enough to their edge - to the water. She was in tears. A few steps behind her another woman followed who tried to keep the first from climbing down the rocks to the water.
"But he's in that building," the crying woman said as she fought off her friend.
The crowd grew as the minutes passed. And some of us stood back to let the war widows past - you could tell who they were - the women and men who came - some alone, others with friends - who had loved ones in those two towers.
Ashamed to watch their grief, to see their trembling hands and smell their fear, I kept my eyes on the sky.
"It's collapsing," a man shrieked. And the wailing started.
In this suburb that sits on the outskirts of NY we watched the Twin Towers fall. But we didn't hear the sirens or the explosions. We only heard the gulls screaming and the widows weeping.
Yesterday, 9/11, was also the release date of Slayer's new album, "God Hates Us All."
In the wake of yesterday's tragedy, the declaration of war by international terrorists against all civilization, how can anybody in their right mind keep playing or supporting games which feature terrorists in a favorable role? Playing a terrorist in a game still provides some kind of understanding, if not support, for the terrorists. Players taking on that role, acting like terrorists, can and does create sympathy. A lot of people play terrorists, taking hostages and blowing up buildings, never ever realizing the true meaning of such acts of terror. As an example, Counter-Strike is one of the most popular online games, making half of all its users play as terrorists! If anything, the terrorist assault on America has shown that terrorists belong to the very worst kind of inhuman humans, right among those who rape and molest children. Would any sane person enjoy playing a game where you are a rapist or child molester? Playing a terrorist, a killer of thousands of innocent people, is not different at all! So now that terrorism has shown its true face, it's about time to reconsider your attitude towards such games, players should boycott games featuring such terrorists as a good and/or playable role, developers should cease making or start altering such games. The aforementioned Counter-Strike modification for Half-Life, being the current leader in multiplayer games, should probably lead the movement and shut down its servers until an update replaces the terrorists with a more appropriate type of player character. Again, playing a terrorist is just like playing a rapist or child molester, show no sympathy and certainly don't support them with your games...
Exactly! Let us not forget the basic problems of today's society which lead to disasters like the ones we saw yesterday. Civilisation will collapse if we allow niggers, the pus-filled boil on civilisation's body, to multiply and roam freely where they don't belong.
The metro has diverted the all the bus routes that went to the Pentagon over to the Pentagon City metro station. I take that route every day, and I was at the pentagon station 30 minutes before the crash on my way to work. This morning, going to work, the bus went through the cloud of smoke from the fire at the Pentagon. Down in the metro there was a haze of smoke in the air coming up the tube from the Pentagon station.
I live four blocks from the World Trade Center, and left for work to see the south tower crumble. My full account is at http://www.lilback.com/wtc.html.
Somehow the idea of a declaration of war has gotten an attached requirement of a "Nation State" as the target. This is simply not true.
The USA was once at war with "The Barbary Pirates" who were the equivalent of modern terrorists in their day.
As far as the Constitution and laws of the US are concerned, "war" is simply a different operational state for the government. Different things are allowed while at war. As such it is dangerous to invoke war because many civil liberties can be tossed with out the process that is involved while not at war. So a declaration of war is a very serious matter; something that should be considered very carefully, at least in the USA.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Regular /. lurker from the UK here.
I would never have thought this terrorist incident of this nature (or any other) would affect me this "close".
My sister and boyfriend are vacationing in Rhode Island and their flight was schedule to leave from Boston on the very same day. My sister phoned back to say everything is OK and their flight back to the UK is rescheduled.
On a sadder note, I have a cousin who is a Police Officer in Brooklyn. He was called in to assist victims from the fallout prior to the collapse of both WTC towers. He is still reported missing. My wishes are with his family. Another cousin was luckier who was working in the WTC when the first tower was attacked - he vacated his office immediately and ran for his life
My heartfelt condolences to all people affected by this barbaric act of terrorism.
I am now predicting several repercussive effects (societal) of this incident. As a UK citizen:
(1) Each UK citizen will be issued a compulsory national identity card. Ramped-up CCTV surveillance and pervasive security checks. There is a reason now to erode personal privacy speheres. Whether this is a "good" or "bad" thing we will witness the arguments from both sides of the divide in the upcoming months/years.
(2) More curbs on immigration - unrelenting news coverage for the past few months here
(3) Racism, especially those targeted at Muslims.
(4) Less resistance to the US national missile-defence shield.
(5) Monitoring of Internet comms
It all looks very gloomy now.
As a globally-connected citizen, I feel that this tragedy affects everybody.
AC
"I figure you're here 'cause you need some whacko who's willing to stick his finger in the fan. So who are we helping?
...you must enter the sewer.
> And to fight it, we will need to lower ourselves
> to their level -- and maybe even then some.
You cannot sit and wait for them to poke their noses above the drain, else you will never win. You will only be able to knock off the stupid ones, while the smart ones are working behind your back raiding the pantry.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
It has everything to do with this tragedy. This was an attack on our country and its ideals, which the flag represents. It being there is a powerful statement.
Nationalism and patriotism are NOT naturally associated with xenophobia, and they are NOT the sole property of "Christian Identity groups and militias."
I am an American. I'm grateful to have been born here and to live here. That makes me patriotic. Does that mean I'm a xenophobe, part of a Christian Identity group or militia? Nope.
I am a Christian. Does this mean I go around bombing abortion clinics? Does this mean I have a compound in Wyoming with all my little Christian friends? Does this mean I'm an evil S.O.B. who wants to kill everybody who doesn't agree with me? Nope.
My ancestry is German. I have a lot of history and culture associated with my bloodline. I'm proud of my family and my heritage. Does that make me racist? Does that make me a Nazi? Nope.
You live in a scary place. There are scary people where you live. You're making the mistake of associating one of their characteristics with others. Don't do that. That's like me looking at past terrorism acts by a few evil Muslims and automatically assuming that Muslims are scary, evil people who probably did this, too. You're just as bad as the people you're accusing, you're just of the opposing opinion.
I looked at that posted page and almost cried. So many people have died for the cause of freedom, for which this country and its flag stands. I am grateful for their sacrifice. Yes, I'm patriotic. If I wasn't, I'd be a real asshole for snubbing my nose at the gifts I've been given. That's why this picture is important. That's why it's powerful. Try to appreciate the fact that you are free to disagree with me and I'm not going to beat your ass in for it, regardless of how much I may want to, because I believe in what this country and its flag represent.
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
... i've seen the same photos, broadcasts, news, videos, shows from iraq, vietnam, cuban, japanese, chinese, serbian etc. buildings and military headquarters exploding a couple of years ago on TV again.
not good. very sorry etc. condolences. cost of life invaluable. not fair. shocking. noone denies that. was always crime and will keep on as such, no matter which side of the atlantic happened, or who pushed the button every time. period.
now proceed with interesting articles?
my 2cent tip:
caring and sympathy works both ways
I work for a Federal agency that's around 3 blocks from the Capitol and right on the mall. I took my normal route to work; walking to Union Station and then taking the Metro over to the office. I got in around 8.
As part of my morning, I went down to talk to our Public Affairs Officer about a few reports we had that were due to be released to the public, and chat about a few other matters. She happens to have a TV in her office. Right at 9, one of our attorneys came into her office and turns on the TV. We witness that the first plane has hit the WTC. I had a meeting to get ready for at 10, so I left to go back to my office and prepare.
A few minutes later, I walked down the hall to one of the conference rooms, and saw that people had gathered in there to watch what was happening on the big screen. Then I learned that the second plane had hit.
Again, I walked back down to my office for a few minutes. Not a minute or two later, one of the attorneys steps into the corridor and announces that a plane had hit the Pentagon. I lost about a quart of blood at that moment.
I've been a Fed for long enough to know that it was a pretty serious thing, and we could be in danger just by being in DC. Not 5 minutes after that plane hit, we were given orders to evacuate the building, and not come back for the day.
When I got outside, it looked like something from a movie. There were police everywhere, and traffic was already locked up. Thinking back on it, it really reminded me of the movie Armageddon. There were so many people trying to get out of town, and everything was blocked up. All the metro (subway) stations were closed and police were controlling traffic.
At the same time, we could hear jets flying overhead, but couldn't see them. It turns out that they were fighters scrambled from Andrews AFB, but at that point, we didn't know. Plus, those fighters were going supersonic over DC, and it was tough to tell whether they were sonic booms or more explosions. That continued through the day, and well into the evening. In the late afternoon, early evening, we heard a few hellicopters flying low, as well.
It was pretty scary walking around Capitol Hill when all of this was going on. For all I knew, another plane could have been on it's way in to the Capitol. All of the phones (land and cell) were maxed out, so I couldn't call anyone to let them know I was OK. I did manage to shoot off an e-mail to my dad letting him know what was happening before I left. Thankfully, my family knows that's our plan, and they called him to get status on me.
Once I got home (around 30 minutes later), myself (and around 15 of my friends who showed up) sat around and watched the news. We were all still incredibly jumpy until we heard that all flights in the US had been accounted for. Until that notice, we could have still been in jeopardy. Even after that, we were still concerned about a drive-up or walk-up bombing situation.
I guess as the day progressed, we all calmed down a bit, but by 6PM, I still hadn't talked to all of the people I care about, and that were concerned about my well being (like my grandmother, who, no matter how many times I tell her, still thinks I work at the Pentagon). It was one of the most exhausting things I have ever been through, including full security alerts on a few of the bases I used to work at. I guess maybe the "what if" engine got going, and just added to the stress of the situation.
Eventually I was able to talk to/e-mail all of my loved ones and friends to let them know I am OK. Security at all Federal buildings has been increased 1000 fold, which makes me feel better about the whole thing, at least temporarily. I've heard jets pass overhead pretty regularly this morning. It feels strange because DC is controlled airspace, and you NEVER hear planes.
To wrap this up, I chose to be a part of the Federal government, and expose myself to these risks as a part of my career. It's all part of the deal, and I willingly accept those risks. Granted, I'm not in the armed services, or have threats presented to me daily, but the risk of being a victim of terrorist activities is a very real concern for myself and all Federal employees, no matter their rank, position or agency.
Help by giving blood/$ if you can. If not, a simple thought about the people who lost their lives will be appreciated by many.
"Want in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first." - My Dad
What happened yesterday was a horrible tradgedy that I doubt anyone will ever forget, I grieve for those who were injured and killed and their families and friends. We should find who orchestrated this and punish them yes, but we have to be very careful about making generalizations.
the middle east should be turned into a sandbox
There are many people in the middle east who want peace. I'm sure there are people in the middle east who grieve as we do. Killing more innocent people on the off chance that we might get the person or persons who planned this doesn't do anything but cause more suffering. Whoever did this wants us screaming for vengeance. If we do, and act on it, they win. What we should be screaming for is Justice.
When I was young...
An idiot tried to mug me with a knife. Apparently he thought the vacuum cleaner I had in my left hand was something valuable and he didn't see the 3 foot long steel vacuum cleaner pipe I had in my right hand. It didn't require much thinking. He called out "Hey you". I turned around. He brandished the knife. I swung the pipe. He fell. I went in and called the police. I went back out, watched over him and waited.
MAJOR rush. It is definitely hard to think under those conditions.
The police officers shook their heads in disbelief after the ex-idiot was on his way to the morgue with a smashed in head. They let me go. I've had no further trouble of that sort.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Got to my office, well outside of the washington beltway, just over an hour ago. The eerieness is just setting in...
Yesterday, the parking lot next door was empty by 1 PM, pretty odd but did not notice at the time. Back to full today.
The most eery thing is the silence out here now. As mentioned in parent to this post, we are on the approach path to IAD. We usually have airplanes landing at minimum seperation, jet noise all day. Not today. No news here on when airports will resume operations. Yesterday they said noon today, today they are not saying.
The Pentagon is open again today. None of our employees (just my group) that work there were injured, but some of their offices were destroyed either in the initial attack or with the fires that crept through after. Some had offices in the "B" ring. We are trying to make office space for them here.
One guy was unaccounted for yesterday. He had decided to stop by the office here in Chantilly before going to the Pentagon. Big bosses could not find him and he was right here in a cube the whole time. One of the DCS offices that we work with is missing 38 people. They had just moved into the "E" ring, it's now a hole.
The latest guess is that 800 people could be dead. Good thing that the wedge that was hit had just been renovated but not fully occupied or there would have been thousands.
Everybody is talking about our interesting stories in dealing with/reassuring relatives (mine in parent post), along with "what should be done."
Box cutters, knives and a few manuals, loud voices, turn off the transponder... I am amazed that something like this had not occurred a long time ago, but taken back a bit at the extent of damage that 3 passenger planes can do...
As soon as we learned how to keep the helicopter straight and level we were taught to point the aircraft at a water tower and fly to it (not through it). This was one of the first things we were taught in Army flight school, basic "driving" of the machine, then how to crudely get it to a destination. Hard to believe that it was almost 20 years ago, but that day of instruction crept into my head right after seeing the second airplane hit WTC. That is about the only skill these guys needed to pull off their attack.
Called in to the Army office that I worked for a few years ago, as a reservist, and let them know I am still around if they need any help. Left a voicemail. Their parent org was right where the big hole in the Pentagon is now.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were shipyards. During WWII, they didn't have the capability to surgically strick targets so they blew up everything in the vicinity. The nuclear bombs were hardly precisino weapons, but they did hit military targets (and the surrounding civilian areas just like all other bombing raids). They were also intended to demonstrate to the Japanese government that we had the ability to utterly destroy Japan unless they stopped fighting. The goal was to prevent the enormous loss of life that would have resulted from an island-by-island invasion of Japan. That death toll would have dwarfed the deaths in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
Bombing the World Trade Center will accomplish no strategic goals. It won't end a war, it won't affect our ability to make war, it won't convince America to back off anywhere. If anything, it will have the opposite effect. Right now, we spend a relatively small amount of our resources on the military. If we mobilized the country on a war-footing, we could produce a lot of military hardware and do a lot of damage. Hopefully, we won't need to...
Bolie IV
Numbness, Why , and then rage....
Offtopic: parent is not a first hand account.
Troll: another poster has pointed out that no terrorist would be in the area. If the police or FBI want such a thing, they will ask for it. In the mean time, you will be flooding already strained resources and sound like a crank.
Flamebait: the inclusion of such a trivial troll into this discussion is obviously infuriating, as is the belittling of principles. Posts like this and this show gnovos to be a flaming troll.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
And kill who, since the ones who did this are already dead?
Better not cause more harm that what's already done.
--- Sueños del Sur - a webcomic about four young siblings
We also want to state that we have nothing to do with the hiding of Osama bin Laden, of whose existence we are still not convinced.
We do have a fucking idea of who the fuck did this.
How many terrorist groups out there routinely practice suicide bombings? The only groups I know of are religious fanatics, and then 99.999% of those are Islamic terrorists. Islam is one of the few religions where suicide attacks are encouraged.
Even Timothy McVeigh, in what was previously the worst terrorist attack on American soil, chose not to commit suicide. Why? Because most mass-murderers have enough sanity to know that they want to live.
Second, has the WTC ever been threatened before? Gee, let's check history... Hmm, we had an Islamic terrorist try to blow them up in 1992, a terrorist linked to Osama Bin Laden. And then we have quotes from Bin Laden, himself, in the press saying that he wanted to destroy the WTC.
Of course, this morning we now know for certain that the terrorists were Islamic, no doubt whatsoever.
Is that 100% proof of Bin Laden? Of course not. But don't sit there with your smug self and tell us that we don't have a fucking clue who did this. The rest of America obviously has more of a fucking clue than you do.
My wife and I live in Colorado. We called the main hospital to see about donating blood, and they were booked until October 15th. Fortunately, there was another, smaller hospital that could fit us in next week. The nation might actually end up with a surplus...
I first heard about the tragedy from a former co-worker who called me at 9:00 yesterday morning. I had been laid off from the company last week. She had quit a few months before. I'm starting to wonder if that was providence. I would normally have been walking out of the PATH train from NJ (which is in the basement of the WTC) right around the time the first tower collapsed. Our building was two blocks from the trade center. In fact, my office used to look out onto both towers. After turning on the TV and seeing what had happened, I grabbed my camera bag and ran out to Sinatra park in Hoboken which overlooks downtown Manhattan. PATH service into the city had already been shutdown, so there were probably close to 1000 people milling around watching the fire and wondering what to do. I set up my camera and started to shoot photos. Halfway through the second role, I took my eye away from the viewfinder so that I could change lenses. At that moment I heard everyone in the park start yelling and crying. I looked up and saw the first tower collapsing. I hit shutter and held it down letting the camera eat up the rest of the role. I'm still not sure whether anything will even be in focus. People all around me were crying and praying and uttering curses. I felt numb and shaky. I managed to change rolls again and start taking more pictures of the aftermath and the cloud of debris rolling into NY harbor. It was right around then that the military started to make its presence known with fighters running CAPs around lower Manhattan and a frigate cruising down the Hudson. A few minutes later, the Hoboken police closed the pier down and herded everyone off it. I went home to start checking on friends to make sure they were ok. Since then, everytime I see footage of one of the towers collapsing, I have a hard time accepting that it has actually happened. It just seems too surreal to be possible.
My Name is Rich Dominelli
I worked for a reinsurance brokerige on the 50th floor 2WTC. Until last decemeber I worked on 94 1WTC. My company and its parent company occupy floors 50-54 in 2 wtc and 94-99 in 1 wtc.
Yesterday started as any other day until about 845 when we heard what sounded like a gust of wind hitting the window. My cube faces the harbor (south side of 2wtc).
Suddenly the sky was filled with paper, then flaming paper and other...things.
Grabbing the notebook me and 3 of the folks who work with me start heading down the fire stairs.
The stairs were virtually deserted maybe 20-25 people nervously walking down.
About the time we hit the 20th floor or so, the PA annouced that a plane had hit 1 wtc and please return to our desks and remain calm.
Well we were more the 1/2 way down so we decided to keep going and take a look from outside. Passing the lobby windows we saw debris strewn about and paper still flying but stil could not really see what was what. We were directed into the mall area towards the path trains and we had almost reached them when the second plane hit.
It sounded like a crack of thunder and we could tell a whole pile of stuff was hitting the courtyard above our head. People started screaming and broke into a run. Eventually we were funnelled into the E train platform and out of the chambers street subway entrance.
One woman was screaming she had seen people falling by the window.
Above ground and looking back we saw 2 firery slashes through the buildings and a ton of smoke.
No one knew what happened at that point. Then I found out that our building had been hit.
The chaos and fear that surrounded me that day was indescribable.
I called in last night to discuss the aftermath. It seems that all of our brethren who had reported to work in 1 wtc are missing. 1200 people in all.
Now we meet by phone and try to pick up the pieces. Both my companies and my parent companies data centers are gone. Our DR plans are ramping up. Who would have ever thought that we would need our DR for an occurance like this.
Numb and shaking in NY
Rich
There is no spoon
God and revenge are words that can't share the same sentence.
To be consistent you will have to drop one of them, otherwise to diferentiate between US freedom fighters and Terrorist freedom fighters will be very difficult....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Yesterday(9/11) I was in school(NJCU), all classess where canceled at about 10:30. Before campus was evacutated, I found a computer and went on IRC. Since I was only 3 miles away from Manhatten, I was asked what I saw. At first it seemed like a bright sunny day, until I looked towards the city and saw a massive cloud of smoke rising from that dirrection. After that, I had a frantic online search for "the end of the world as we know it" by R.E.M. After that I sat in #/. and just waited, and waited, and oh hell, thats what I always do
The hospital I work at was where most of the Pentagon wounded ended up going to. They needed bodies helping with triage, so they
grabbed me.(later,I was also grabbed to help with a bomb threat...Being 5 feet from a supposed bomb, trying to keep people away for the bomb squad
just isn't fun..btw...The bomb ended up being a bag of pretzels...but I digress....)...
I ended up riding the elevator up with a seargent with pretty badly burned legs. Someone turned to the seargent and said, 'Bad day, huh?...' And the seargent just smiled and said....'Bad day?! This is the best day of my life....I'm sitting here with you, aren't I?'...
Just stuff I picked up from CNN yesterday ...
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
"Xinoehpoel" is probably John Ennis himself, who apparently does have some mental problems (I reserved judgement until I saw random references to UFOs and aliens...which was a bizarre departure from the rest of his already bizarre posts; drinking urine by the way, although it sounds disgusting is completely healthy, and understandable in cases in which clean water is not available, which probably wasn't the case in his jail episode anyway). Also his quote about being forced to breath harmful chemicals, in light of his refusal to drink anything but filtered water might indicate some obsessive/paranoid behavior. The events of Sept. 11 are probably completely coincidental. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if Bill Clinton dies in November, or if some catastrophy occurs in 2006/2007.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
No, we were animals to begin with, nothing can make us into what we already are.
Does anyone seriously think we're above what nature intended for us? Animals fight all the time, especially territorial animals. If we'd bother to look at ourselves for what we are, it'd be pretty obvious we're just doing what comes naturally.
Only the most arrogant and blindly optimistic people think that human beings are anything more than the animals nature intended us to be.
Utopian society is a nice dream, but it will never happen. That's not what human beings are destined for, and if it were to occur, it certainly wouldn't make us great. It'd make us bored.
Homo sapiens... Last I heard, they were just another primate species. "Advanced Monkeys" if you will.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Let's rid the world of towel headed anti christs!
...you were trying to be.
Taken seriously, who are the cats?
What if the cats don't want to do our dirty work?
Ethically, what is the distinction between using our own hands and using hired hands?
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Wouldn't that be heroic? throwing a load of cruise missiles around, the so called smart weapons, not even seeing the horror they can cause, a cowardly option I think so.
I mostly agree with what you said, I just want to take one point of your argument to expand about other stuff:
Basically, Jesus Christ's idea of not returning violence with violence means that we can protect ourselves, but that any response must be the true minimum necessary to achieve security.
You got that bit wrong. Jesus Christ advocated not returning violence at all, not even to protect yourself.
"Love the other as if he was yourself "(sorry for the shody tranlsation to English from my mother tongue). That was the commandment. Now, are you ready to love those people that so many are naming as the enemy (without probe yet, which shows only prejudice)?
If you are not Christian (or religious) and want more blood and revenge, congratulations, at least you are coherent and consistent. I don't agree with you, I deeply regret that you can't see beyond your anger and sorrow.
If you pretend you are Christian and call for revenge, more carnage and mayhem, sorry, you just probed you can't live to the standards you have set to yourself (and very often to others).
I am not religious for that reason, I can't bear so much hipocrasy ( how can somebody say with a straight face "Good Bless America" after anouncing you are going to kill more people? That is more like an Ayatollah calling for a holly war. Pathetic). Today I don't pray for the dead, because it should be obvious there is no god, but I do share their suffering and the suffering of their loved ones. I wish there was a god that magicaly would comfort them and somehow grant them a better place to be after they depart this sad dust of space that we share.
The US either take concrete actions to brake the cycle of violence (the US has aided many terrorist groups that now have turned against US interests) or endure the consequences of dealing with an enemy you can't target.
The US is globalizing everything, and now it wants to globalize Vietnam and make us all participants of such wonderful experience...
My deepest sympaties to the victims and their families. My greatest pity to those that can only react using exactly the same idiotic instincts that caused this horrible tragedy...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
shut up, neville...
...and yes, if it come down to it, I am willing to die for my country, the United States of America.
appease their demands? What the FUCK is wrong with you? Their "demands" are to turn every American into a grease spot.
bin laden did this. the taliban government of afghanistan shelters bin laden because they like him and he can do things (like blow up buildings in america) they would like to do, but cannot do, due to international pressure.
the taliban was not behind this, but they allowed it to happen by not turning bin laden over to the US three years ago. the statement that they feel our pain is crocodile tears...
the conclusion? the taliban is just as guilty as bin laden and the people support the taliban. but sadly, there are innocents in that nation.
still, we must retaliate...and make a HORRIBLE example of afghanistan. we end them. and when we are done, we sow salt into their fields so that they can never recover, never come back. when that is done, no nation, no populace, will DARE harbor or sponsor terrorists for fear of the destruction of their own homeland. terrorist will have nowhere to hide.
but for this kind of deterrence to work, we must have an international demonstration of force the likes of which this world has never seen and hopefully will never have to see again.
universalcurb
"Leo needs some new shoes" --Leo Johnson
dum spiro, spero
It is soo easy to say people are spineless without knowing.
.....
Afghanistan is a battlefield and has been for the last 20 years (at least). They are trying to deal with it, idiot, the population there is perhaps victim of the same people that bombed NY
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Another difference is that few of the thousands of people killed yesterday benefit from occupation of Palestine. Asides from paying taxes, they have no part in that dirty little fight.
My brother in law missed this by a single day. Today, he had a meeting on the 58th floor of one of those now destroyed towers. Thankfully, he was not there when this happened, but I will never forget that he might have been there.
I'm furious at both sides of that fight, but especially at Israel. They so obviously have the upper hand and have been so ugly about it. Was this done by Palestinian sympathizers? That's hard to say. The same folks who assassinated their own prime minister a few years ago are every bit as fanatical and depraved as Yasser Arafat ever was. You know, the tear down the mosque and build a temple crowd. Nuts. This could have been done by the IRA for all I know. That does not mollify me towards any of these losers around the world that might do something like this. Their stupid little pissing match has just taken the lives of thousands of innocent people, one of who could have been my bother in law.
The people responsible for this are going to hang. After that, how about you do something nice for some of those huge impersonal black faces in the Palestinan Authority, and encourage your friends to make a fair and lasting peace? Surely, most of them share your horror.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Can our "Fearless Leader" ever give a public statement without having to READ off a paper every two lines?? (Watch him and count, it's like clockwork!) I agree with what he had to say this morning but the way he said it did not instill confidence in me that we have a strong president who can lead the USA...AND the free world through a crisis of monumental proportions. We need an FDR in this crisis, hell I'd settle for Bill Clinton or even H. W. Bush ! W. Bush always looks remarkably like a dear caught in the headlights...
"The human mind's ability to rationalize its own shortcomings into virtues is unlimited." - Robert A. Heinlein
The U.S. response at the time of Pearl Harbor was to be the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons, causing genetic damage that continued long after Japan became a favored trading partner of the U.S.
There is no evidence of elevated rates of genetic damage in survivors of nuclear weapons in Japan. Sorry, it's not there and they are as healthy as you and me.
My second complaint goes to your whole idea. The Japanese are wonderful people who treat each other and US visitors very well. People forgive acts of war when all is said and done. Violence, justly used does not make eternal hatred.
The ususal petty trolls like this piss me off more in times when bandwith could be used to comfort and reasure people who have no other means of communication. Please cease and desist for a few days.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I used to joke about how we could stop hyjacking by giving everyone that boards an airplane, a hand gun. What idiot would try to take the plane now? Seriously, the pilots flight deck should have much more secure construction and be impenetrable AND the plane could be outfitted with anesthetizing gas canisters. The release switch, located in the captains cockpit, would fill the passenger cabin and put everyone asleep. Land the plane safely and hang the hyjackers from the wing of the aircraft. Execution must be televised world wide or it would not act as a deterent.
I am a few hundred miles away from where anything happened, but I wanted to add my two cents.... Yesterday evening, as the sun went down I looked up at the skies. The skies were free of clouds, but I really noticed how starkly empty they were. There was not a con-trail in the air. Nothing was moving up there. For the first time in my life I had a glimpse of what the skies were like before aviation.... The atmosphere is literally different than it was two days ago... Even if you hadn't heard anything else, all you'd have to do is look up to see that there is something wrong in the world.
- AlanH
The FBI went to Coral Springs, same city as the address I posted from networksolutions.com
n de x.html
http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/09/12/fbi/i
The nuke has saved more lives of Japanese than you think if you knew how they send brainwash lad to the frontline.
This is an email I received from a coworker. She works in a building accross the street from the WTC. She takes the train to the WTC every morning.
Thanks Steve. Yes it was a very narrow escape for me yesterday. Everyday I take 7.50 train from Princeton to Newark.From Newark, I take a path train to WTC. Which takes me to WTC around 9 O' clock. Yesterday I decided to take the 7.56 to Newark that meant I took a later train to WTC which was the first one to be halted at Exchange Place, a stop before WTC. When we got out of the station, we could see one of the towers on fire and we were told that a plane had hit the building accidently and as we were watching we saw this plane hit the second tower and the tower exploded right in front of my eyes. There was panic, we were asked to clear the place and I ran along with others to the next station from where we were able to catch a path train from Hoboken to Newark. We were fortunate to connect a train from Newark to Princeton. Later we came to know that was the only train that came out of NY penn soon after the accident. Some of our friends are still stranded in NY. Had I taken the earlier train, I would have been walking right through WTC foyer to the streets as the second plane struck the building. I am bit shocked to see the horrible sights on TV and to think I could have been one of them makes me rather nervous. Shantha
Steve M
That's a funny abuse of language. Kind of like the correct truth.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Blacks." Palestinians are not called "black" in Israel. They are called "Arab" or "Palestinian."
I'm not sure what the exact word is either. A friend of mine who spent some time in Israel assured me that is what the derogatory term used to describe Palestinians translates to in English. I wish it were not so but I believe what my friend, who loves Israel, told me. She was asshamed, just as I am asshamed and enraged when I see Negros abused here.
The name is defining! The person you refer to when you say, "There is no shaheed, his 'heroic' face plastered throughout the Palestinian Authority.", is less than a man to you. Not even worth of a capital S. Try to see a person like yourself, regardless of the differences, rather than an animal.
When all is said and done, it's important to remember that when you are merciful to cruel people, you are cruel to merciful people.
Nonsense! There is no cruelty in mercy and no mercy in cruelty. Thoughts like that simply justify cruelty. It's time for Israel to stick to the treaties already signed and share the land it stole, including that rock named Jeruselem. There is no end to any other way, no matter how you try to correct the facts.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
How are the "responsible" people to be determined? How are you supposed to be able to tell a psycopath from the rest of the passengers? You can't. Instead of arming passengers so that anyone can shoot everyone, how about we start restricting the weapons that are apparently allowed on planes? We already don't have guns, now we just need to crack down on the knives, because as was pointed out in earlier comments, security personnel don't hold them in the same dangerous light that they do firearms.
screw that, New York has no space for a wussy-ass memorial. Our memorial will be a bigger, newer, better world trade center, the marble walls etched with the names of those lost in the original. World Trade Center II will stand like a big "SCREW YOU" to the bastards responsible. Knock us down? New Yorkers don't get knocked down- we get up- bigger and stronger. Memorial my ass... nobody who worked in that building would want anything less than a bigger, better building to show that they don't wuss out.
>How are the "responsible" people to be determined?
We don't. We let everyone arm themselves or not as they see fit, and let the law of averages see to it that the nutcases are outnumbered. Right now, a terrorist can RELY on everyone else being unarmed. I propose to remove that assurance.
> Instead of arming passengers so that anyone can shoot everyone, how about we start restricting the weapons that are apparently allowed on planes?
We've already tried the "disarm everyone" policy. It failed.
Unless you're prepared to require that everyone going on an airplane strip and wear a hospital gown while in the air, you're not going to get rid of everything that could possibly be a weapon.
I have a Zero Haliburton briefcase that I could probably use to kill a knife-wielding attacker it I got a good swing at the perp's head, for example.
I'd much rather rely on 20% or more of my fellow passengers carrying a Glock and a 25-round magazine with frangible bullets, than trust airport security to fully disarm everyone on a plane.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
However, I hate to have to remind you that although this is clearly the largest terrorist attack the world has ever seen, it's not the first. The US had been lucky enough to be relatively unaffected before yesterday, but here in the UK terrorists have destroyed buildings (the Baltic Exchange in the City of London, for example), shopping centres, and many hundreds of innocent bystanders, and aircraft have been brought down over populated areas (Lockerbie). As a result, we already have strong security even on domestic flights, and in the City bomb procedures, CCTV surveillance, and other security measures (aka invasions of privacy - maybe some of you can now understand why we have generally been slower to complain about such things than Americans would). Most other countries also suffer - notably Israel from the PLO etc. (no need to elaborate there, I hope), Spain from ETA, etc..
Sometimes it seems to us here that the US is far too self-centred - calling the WTC 'the centre of western civilisation' (James Rubin, former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, on BBC's Newsnight yesterday), for example, seems a little presumptious. Even your 'World News' seems to relegate other countries to tenth place behind domestic stories (IIRC from my visit last year). How tragically ironic that the US's first major experience of modern terrorism should be on such a terrible scale!
It's hard for any of us to get some sense of perspective on these events. But I fear that the US will retaliate too soon and too indiscriminately, leaving itself open to accusations of exactly the sort of inhumanity that it's just suffered. It's only natural to seek revenge, but please don't let this cloud your judgement. Taking out half of Afghanistan may not do any of us any good in the long term, and is exactly the sort of attitude that may have contributed to the tragedy. The world already knows of your military might - this may be a time to show it your wisdom, maturity, and fairness.
And more generally, I think many Americans would do well to learn a little more about world affairs (especially those in Ireland and Israel). No longer can you ignore the rest of the world, or consider it subject to your will, or way of life (or spelling!).
Welcome to the club :(
(That's my perspective, anyway :)
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
When the U.S. dropped the first atomic bomb, it was already clear that the U.S. had gained the upper hand in the war and would eventually win. But you're absolutely wrong that Japan had decided to surrender. Quite the opposite, Japan was girding itself for the U.S. to invade its mainland, and intended to defend its mainland with every able-bodied man, woman, or child, whether they had ever held a gun or not, whether they would even have a gun when they faced U.S. troops or not. President Truman had a terrible choice to make. He could either invade mainland Japan and occupy the whole island, which was expected to involve the deaths of hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops and tens of millions of Japanese people, mostly not trained military but drafted at the last moment, or he could drop the atomic bomb and try to scare Japan into a quick surrender. Both choices were horrible. I won't speculate on whether the correct choice was made or not; in many senses, there was no correct choice.
But make no mistake: Japan did not decide to surrender until AFTER the second atomic bomb was dropped, and it was not a show or force to the USSR. At that time, the USSR was still our ally. We were greatful for their help in defeating Germany, and were still on good terms with them for a little while after the war ended.
-----Chaz
the link to the image is down. i mirrored it here http://pangburn.cc
the link to the image is down. i mirrored it here. http://pangburn.cc
Thanks. That is very much appreciated.
Also, I very much liked your story on that page.
Bush's education improvements were
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
Stand proud, America!
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
I think we are past the point of needing to use nukes or physicaly invadeing a whole country to get one guy/group. We have a hell of a lot of backing for whatever we decide to do. (like demanding Bin Laden) If that happens, Afghanistan would be making a big mistake to hamper those efforts. If they did, tactical strikes and specific landings would make the needed impact.
Using a nuke would be shooting ourselves in the foot.
I don't think you have been following the activities of the secret agencies of the U.S. government. The CIA has done everything that terrorists do.
For example, see this quote from the Atlantic Monthly story, Inside the Department of Dirty Tricks:
"We're not in the Boy Scouts," Richard Helms was fond of saying when he ran the Central Intelligence Agency. He was correct, of course. Boy Scouts do not ordinarily bribe foreign politicians, invade other countries with secret armies, spread lies, conduct medical experiments, build stocks of poison, pass machine guns to people who plan to turn them on their leaders, or plot to kill men such as Lumumba or Castro or others who displeased Washington. The CIA did these things, and more, over a long span of years.
Did you know that Osama bin Laden was trained by the CIA? See the MSNBC article, Bin Laden comes home to roost.
Do you think that Osama bin Laden is a terrorist? Then isn't the agency who trained him a terrorist organization, also?
Bush's education improvements were
On TV, we saw the 2nd tower start to collapse. I ran to the bedroom window...and there it went. THousands of lives....
Almost 2 days later, I still can barely get my mind around this. The following page is a tribute to the WTC and the victims of this crime, with images and memories of the Twin Towers:
http://artificeeternity.com/wtc
--Max Clarke
>No weapons, no hijackings.
What a rich fantasy life you have. The way you cling to the idea that it's possible to ensure that nobody on a plane has anything that could be used as a weapon is so naiive that it would be charming if it weren't so stupid.
I have a *briefcase* that is more lethal than a knife with a 4" blade. (Zero Halliburton; give it a good swing and it will easily cause a fatal concussion.) I could give a good kick to the tray table on nearly any airline seat, and bust off a hunk of jagged aluminum that will cut a throat just as efficiently as a box cutter. Do you propose to remove the tray tables, and turn all the aircraft cabins into padded cells?
Would you care to extend your fantasy further?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I have to agree with you. Too much of America is about Greed these days. In small doses, greed can be good as a personal motivator. Our nation appears addicted to it, though.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Why not go to the Analog X website and download POW! - Automatic popup killer...
Might be a solution to your problem... Works for me anyway...
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
The Jews say that they are the "chosen people" of God. The Jews say that Arabs are descended from an illegitimate child of their tribal founder, Abraham, and a slave girl.
It is not difficult to understand the thoughts of the Arabs. It is not difficult to understand that it is annoying to live next to a group of people who claim that they are superior, and that Arabs are inferior.
What about killing all these bloody jews that think they are superior? All this trouble is because of them, ain't it? They still haven't understood after 2000 years, that christians are superiors?
Seriously, you really think the war between Israel and Palestine lasts for more than 3000 years? I thought in the Middle Age, the region was occupied by Europeans, who were "wiped" from there by the way.
There are numerous examples in History of places where Jews and Arabs lived together without saying to each other that they were superior, inferior or bastards. There are much less examples in History of places where Jews could live with Christians without being "wiped".
Michael Jennings, i find your message one of the most violent i've read these days (even in France, my country, where Jews are not liked so much).
-- Christophe Prieur.
Please don't confuse an explanation of the violence with the violence itself.
Ask yourself, Why aren't Jews liked "so much" in France? I am saying it is because of the arrogance of saying that they are "God's Chosen People".
Remember, I am only trying to provide an explanation. If you have alternate explanations, please provide them.
You said, 'There are much less examples in History of places where Jews could live with Christians without being "wiped".'
There are many fewer examples in European history books of places where Jews could live with Christians peacefully. Don't forget that the Pharaoh of Egypt enslaved the Jews more than 3,000 years ago. Don't forget that Abraham, founder of the Jewish tribe, was a slave owner. He got the slaves by warring with neighboring tribes. That region has a long history of violence. Don't forget that the Jewish record Christians call the "Old Testament" contains many stories of violence.
Bush's education improvements were
What do you do when the next group of hijackers are trained black-belts who know 30 ways to kill a man with bare hands?
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
I was at work. I was oblivious until I overheard some people in the next aisle talking about planes crashing into the Pentagon & the WTC. I still didn't really know what was happening. I tried to get online to Yahoo news, but everything slowed to a crawl. Soon after we got official news on the loudspeaker. At about 11:30 CDT we evacuated our building(I'm a federal employee). I was mentally numb the rest of the day thru the next.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
There's this thing called "gallows humor". This is a prime example. You just can't hold the monstrosity of this in your head very long before you snap. If you can't act, If you can't cry, you laugh. And I think you probably know this.
Possibly you don't understand the meaning of the word "revolution"? It refers to action taken by the citizens OF the country, not by external agents.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
See the latest version of the letter above at What Should be the Response to Violence?
One of the headings: "The CIA trained Osama bin Laden."
Bush's education improvements were
"An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind"
Just nitpicking..
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok
The point is that if weapons are prevented from getting onboard in the first place, hijackings will become pretty much obsolete. Your hebetude would be almost charming if it wasn't so stupid.