Someone firing a missile at an unarmed passenger aircraft was not human error. Pilots should be trained to be able to ID aircraft and know whether they're military or not. I'm an aviation buff, not a trained pilot, but even I can point to a high-flying 747 and differentiate it from a distant 707. And a military pilot can't do that? Inadequate training. Hopefully, this was rectified shortly after that crash... but as far as I know, no one ever took responsibility and offered an apology or compensation for the families. (Please, prove me wrong!)
Why did we never hear of the designers of VCRs being threatened with laws that would impose jail time? This is the same kind of thing they're worried about, when you get down to the basics ("you can't copy this but you can copy that, and we don't want you to have a device that lets you do it")... and I know I would have heard of it by now if anyone ever thought of making it a criminal offense to make and distribute a videocasette recorder device.
Why was there never a requirement for a VCR to "spy" on you and make sure you weren't doing anything nasty (beyond macrovision, which isn't anywhere near as intrusive as the current DRM crap), and why was there never a "if you make VCRs, we're going to arrest you and send you to jail for contributory" and yet there is now? What's the difference? These days, software can do so many of the things we once needed hardware to handle. Software has essentially replaced hardware for some functions.
Why are programmers being singled out, and only programmers of certain types of applications? As so many others have said, why not ban anything that can be used, POSSIBLY, for any "wrong" purpose at all? Like http?
What I'm confused by, in what you said, is that you seem to think that P2P apps are illegal because most people use them to copy things illegally. Without worrying about whether it's true or not (I don't think it matters), I think it's been established by now that there are "significant" legitimate uses (downloading new distros of X-Plane is one thing I use it for, personally; there's a torrent file you can download from the app's website, or you can find torrents elsewhere of the app plus scenery data, etc).
The way I've always understood said Betamax decision is that as long as those uses exist, whether they're used to a large extent (or not), they protect the technology in question from being banned. Do you agree or not?
Could you elaborate? This isn't a flame, just a request for some clarification.
Actually, yes it is the point. I'd guess that a large percentage of the videocassettes sold are blank and are used to record broadcast or cable television, yet the devices that permit this to be done (VCRs) were ruled to be legal because they also are used for playback of pre-recorded media that users purchase in stores.
What someone might do with something is none of the government's business. When you get into laws based on "might"s and "maybe"s is the time when you start tromping on peoples' rights. You have to prove wrongdoing in a specific case to deny someone of life, liberty, or property. And because a device might be used for something that is "okay" just as easily as it is used for something that is not, what right does the government have to presume guilt? That's not how US law works.
I know the feeling. I have an LJ (for friends to read) in which I relay news, ramble about things that interest me, and write mini-essays from time to time. I don't whine about my parents or people at school or whatever (well, I do, but it's grumbling about idiots at work, since I work at a university) and the people I know are generally much the same. But I can't stand those typically teen idiotic ramblings either.
But I too find it irritating that a service I use, that is supposed to be backed up (my account was bouncing up and down numerous times in the past week, too). For a paid service, I'd have expected there to be a lot more backups to make it more difficult for power problems to wipe out the entire site. If the hosting facility doesn't have a UPS, why wasn't one installed?
Nononono, I know Scaled isn't. I'm hoping Carmack doesn't pack it in and give up, since Scaled won.
It will be interesting to see what happens. If they hang in there and launch anyway (like the Da Vinci Project is doing) we might have multiple commercial vehicles flying and not just one.
And how about wanting to take responsibility for mistakes, and being honest and telling the truth? Everyone assumes this guy is up to something or is just an idiot. Maybe he knows there are downsides to talking about what happened, but maybe he believes he is doing the right thing. We are all so conditioned to believe people are Up To Something that we don't ever look at the fact that there are honest people out there who make honest mistakes.
And before you say that he's an idiot for not reading everything, let me say that that may be true, that we should read everything, although not everyone does. It's a common mistake. This guy has stepped up and said "I screwed up and I realize it, I want everyone to know what happened, though, since I see all these incorrect assumptions being made about me."
I once had someone tell me I was the worst person in the world, I was an idiot, I was a jerk not worth being friends with anymore. And for what? Apologizing for past mistakes and wanting to get it off my chest and know I had done the right thing. I still haven't talked to the asshole since, but I can say that I did the right thing. A lot of people (generically speaking, not with anyone particular in mind) would not have done this and would have lied to make themselves look good.
Sad, really. Especially since the ex-"friend" has been lying about ME to others. Argh. People do suck.
Looks like all that hard work that was going into Armadillo (which had some pretty promising-looking stuff going) is going to fade into the background again. I was afraid of this: the prize has been won, so nearly everyone who didn't win now decides it's no longer worth trying and fades into the background to follow other things.
I guess we'll just have to wait to see what Scaled Composites does next... if they, too, don't give up. They say they won't, and knowing them I'm inclined to believe it, but I thought Armadillo was doing well enough that they'd keep going, too.
A shame. There's a nice mockup of their vehicle on public display in front of the science museum here in St. Louis. Too bad it's just a mockup.
Then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I don't think either of us is going to budge from our opinions, and that doesn't mean either opinion is bad, it just means that we've got our minds made up to the point where this discussion isn't leading us anywhere.
But I think we should also keep in mind the fact that substantial questions have been raised for quite some time regarding how much "harm" (in quotes because the term is hard to define on its own).
And there actually have been some debates (legal and not) about whether copyright here in the US should indeed be changed.
So yes... it's perfectly right and fair for people to question or resist or otherwise react to levies. What the right reaction is is going to be different to each person, as this discussion proves. Only time will tell what happens in the future.
Why should I pay a tax for no benefit in return? I'm not gaining any new services or goods in exchange. This is the government punishing me for something I may or may not doing, without checking to see whether I am actually doing so. And given that the levies are being placed on items that are basically vital for us all (like gasoline, although such levies actually are used for things like improving the roads we drive on, so there is a benefit there) there is no way to escape being unfairly punished for something we aren't doing wrong.
Check into the history of the United States if you wonder why I might have the viewpoing that I do. Look into the Stamp Act and other laws which were basically passed to pay for things that weren't benefiting the people being taxed in any way (in other words, paying for wars in faraway lands that weren't creating a direct benefit to the colonists.)
Reality is that subjecting people to unfair taxes that don't gain them any benefit in any way is going to result in the subjects in question feeling that they DO have the right to gain some sort of benefit from the taxes in question. They will perform the activity that is "covered" by the levy, they will demand changes to justify the levy or change the attitudes of those who created them, they will revolt against the levies, et cetera.
Reality is that, contrary to a lot of the postings I see here on Slashdot on all kinds of subjects, most people are NOT stupid enough to sit idly by and let themselves be cheated. They'll say "OK, tax me and I'll do whatever you're taxing me for to get my money's worth out of this tax." Hit people in the pocketbook, as happened all those centuries ago, and they will notice.
Continuing to believe otherwise is choosing to turn a blind eye to reality.
Yep, definitely good it's not on the CCD. At least stuck pixels on the CCD can be cloned out in Photoshop, and some cameras have smart firmware that adjust images in-camera to do this. I don't think the D70 does, though.
Is it, really? The purpose of the levy is to make sure that things that are copied are paid for, that the right people get compensated for whatever they're getting compensated for. If one pays the levy, one is paying for what one does. So there's no justification for anyone to complain when you do what you have earned the ability to do by paying the levy?
I pay money every year for the tax levies appropriate to registering a car and having a license to drive said car. That's what I get in exchange for paying the levy. If I pay the levy but don't drive, then I've wasted my money. If someone arbitrarily comes along and tells me, for no reason, "you can't drive even though you paid the levy", I think I've got a reason to be angry, and I'd want my money back.
While in some cases, levies can be insignificant compared to the purchase cost of an item, and sometimes they're not, if you're going to just focus on the percentage of this and the percentage of that, you are missing the entire point. We pay the levy, we earn the right to perform the activity which is covered by that levy. If you don't want people doing it, don't set up a scheme to compensate for the fact that it is done.
Most likely because a lot of people here may not study geography, etc. I have, but then I'm a generalist of sorts, but eh. It all depends on what you find interesting, I guess. And perhaps partly because of the fact that movies, TV, etc. don't do a great job of explaining what's where.
Less prejudice than ignorance, at least most of the time I've seen this happen. But I think it's stupid that it's happening at all. Didn't we learn anything from the last few times this happened?
Doc: "No wonder this circuit failed. It says 'Made in Japan'.
Marty: "But Doc. All the good stuff is made in Japan!"
Exactly... and if there IS a defect, it can be more or less annoying depending on where it is. I own a Nikon D70 camera and I got one with no dead or stuck pixels (that I have seen so far). A friend bought one when he found out how much I love it, and his has a stuck (green) pixel in the lower center area of the rear display. It's more annoying there than it would have been if it was off to the side, or if it was red or blue instead (since our eyes are more sensitive to green, it stands out more). We are not sure if Nikon would be willing to replace the screen or not.
I think the point was just that the voice had a heavy foreign accent, so they were either not in the US (perhaps they use VoIP?) or their staff is recent (first-generation) immigrants. Nothing more than that. This is Slashdot -- not everyone's a linguist.;)
By doing this, they're legitimizing the same activities they claim to be trying to stop. If you are going to pass a levy to compensate for something, you can't expect anyone to listen when you tell them to stop. They will (rightly) say "I paid an extra tax on this equipment to cover the cost of what I'm doing." They'll either have to stop charging a levy or fin that no one will listen.
That's the inherent problem: how do you convince the public that these things are actually benefiting them and that they should donate? I don't know the answer, and I can tell you don't either. But I do think that at least some people would -- mostly geeks, at least at first, and science types. The problem is that a lot of people don't understand the benefits of this stuff, largely because they don't "get it".
Perhaps. But, and I think this may be the source of the misunderstanding here, my hope is that sites like PLoS can get the public to be aware of their existence and place Paypal donation buttons on their home pages and get help from the public at large, not just the scientific community.
If enough people support the idea of PLoS, they might donate. I never said it was unrelated. It could happen -- people donate to all sorts of things to make them work.
Slashdot Mirror
Someone firing a missile at an unarmed passenger aircraft was not human error. Pilots should be trained to be able to ID aircraft and know whether they're military or not. I'm an aviation buff, not a trained pilot, but even I can point to a high-flying 747 and differentiate it from a distant 707. And a military pilot can't do that? Inadequate training. Hopefully, this was rectified shortly after that crash ... but as far as I know, no one ever took responsibility and offered an apology or compensation for the families. (Please, prove me wrong!)
Sure. But I'm still asking this:
... and I know I would have heard of it by now if anyone ever thought of making it a criminal offense to make and distribute a videocasette recorder device.
Why did we never hear of the designers of VCRs being threatened with laws that would impose jail time? This is the same kind of thing they're worried about, when you get down to the basics ("you can't copy this but you can copy that, and we don't want you to have a device that lets you do it")
True ... though here's one for you:
Why was there never a requirement for a VCR to "spy" on you and make sure you weren't doing anything nasty (beyond macrovision, which isn't anywhere near as intrusive as the current DRM crap), and why was there never a "if you make VCRs, we're going to arrest you and send you to jail for contributory" and yet there is now? What's the difference? These days, software can do so many of the things we once needed hardware to handle. Software has essentially replaced hardware for some functions.
Why are programmers being singled out, and only programmers of certain types of applications? As so many others have said, why not ban anything that can be used, POSSIBLY, for any "wrong" purpose at all? Like http?
It always has struck me as ludicrous.
What I'm confused by, in what you said, is that you seem to think that P2P apps are illegal because most people use them to copy things illegally. Without worrying about whether it's true or not (I don't think it matters), I think it's been established by now that there are "significant" legitimate uses (downloading new distros of X-Plane is one thing I use it for, personally; there's a torrent file you can download from the app's website, or you can find torrents elsewhere of the app plus scenery data, etc).
The way I've always understood said Betamax decision is that as long as those uses exist, whether they're used to a large extent (or not), they protect the technology in question from being banned. Do you agree or not?
Could you elaborate? This isn't a flame, just a request for some clarification.
Actually, yes it is the point. I'd guess that a large percentage of the videocassettes sold are blank and are used to record broadcast or cable television, yet the devices that permit this to be done (VCRs) were ruled to be legal because they also are used for playback of pre-recorded media that users purchase in stores.
What someone might do with something is none of the government's business. When you get into laws based on "might"s and "maybe"s is the time when you start tromping on peoples' rights. You have to prove wrongdoing in a specific case to deny someone of life, liberty, or property. And because a device might be used for something that is "okay" just as easily as it is used for something that is not, what right does the government have to presume guilt? That's not how US law works.
I know the feeling. I have an LJ (for friends to read) in which I relay news, ramble about things that interest me, and write mini-essays from time to time. I don't whine about my parents or people at school or whatever (well, I do, but it's grumbling about idiots at work, since I work at a university) and the people I know are generally much the same. But I can't stand those typically teen idiotic ramblings either.
But I too find it irritating that a service I use, that is supposed to be backed up (my account was bouncing up and down numerous times in the past week, too). For a paid service, I'd have expected there to be a lot more backups to make it more difficult for power problems to wipe out the entire site. If the hosting facility doesn't have a UPS, why wasn't one installed?
Nononono, I know Scaled isn't. I'm hoping Carmack doesn't pack it in and give up, since Scaled won.
It will be interesting to see what happens. If they hang in there and launch anyway (like the Da Vinci Project is doing) we might have multiple commercial vehicles flying and not just one.
I can get a new Audi by downloading it from the internet!!? BRING IT ON!
A3 Sportback, 2.0T FSI, in white, panoramic moonroof, 6-speed, cold weather package, nav, xenon headlights, please.
To remind the next ten generations that some downloads come at too high a price?
And how about wanting to take responsibility for mistakes, and being honest and telling the truth? Everyone assumes this guy is up to something or is just an idiot. Maybe he knows there are downsides to talking about what happened, but maybe he believes he is doing the right thing. We are all so conditioned to believe people are Up To Something that we don't ever look at the fact that there are honest people out there who make honest mistakes.
And before you say that he's an idiot for not reading everything, let me say that that may be true, that we should read everything, although not everyone does. It's a common mistake. This guy has stepped up and said "I screwed up and I realize it, I want everyone to know what happened, though, since I see all these incorrect assumptions being made about me."
I once had someone tell me I was the worst person in the world, I was an idiot, I was a jerk not worth being friends with anymore. And for what? Apologizing for past mistakes and wanting to get it off my chest and know I had done the right thing. I still haven't talked to the asshole since, but I can say that I did the right thing. A lot of people (generically speaking, not with anyone particular in mind) would not have done this and would have lied to make themselves look good.
Sad, really. Especially since the ex-"friend" has been lying about ME to others. Argh. People do suck.
*wave* Live in Brentwood, work at WashU Med School, here.
Looks like all that hard work that was going into Armadillo (which had some pretty promising-looking stuff going) is going to fade into the background again. I was afraid of this: the prize has been won, so nearly everyone who didn't win now decides it's no longer worth trying and fades into the background to follow other things.
... if they, too, don't give up. They say they won't, and knowing them I'm inclined to believe it, but I thought Armadillo was doing well enough that they'd keep going, too.
I guess we'll just have to wait to see what Scaled Composites does next
A shame. There's a nice mockup of their vehicle on public display in front of the science museum here in St. Louis. Too bad it's just a mockup.
Then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I don't think either of us is going to budge from our opinions, and that doesn't mean either opinion is bad, it just means that we've got our minds made up to the point where this discussion isn't leading us anywhere.
... it's perfectly right and fair for people to question or resist or otherwise react to levies. What the right reaction is is going to be different to each person, as this discussion proves. Only time will tell what happens in the future.
But I think we should also keep in mind the fact that substantial questions have been raised for quite some time regarding how much "harm" (in quotes because the term is hard to define on its own).
And there actually have been some debates (legal and not) about whether copyright here in the US should indeed be changed.
So yes
Why should I pay a tax for no benefit in return? I'm not gaining any new services or goods in exchange. This is the government punishing me for something I may or may not doing, without checking to see whether I am actually doing so. And given that the levies are being placed on items that are basically vital for us all (like gasoline, although such levies actually are used for things like improving the roads we drive on, so there is a benefit there) there is no way to escape being unfairly punished for something we aren't doing wrong.
Check into the history of the United States if you wonder why I might have the viewpoing that I do. Look into the Stamp Act and other laws which were basically passed to pay for things that weren't benefiting the people being taxed in any way (in other words, paying for wars in faraway lands that weren't creating a direct benefit to the colonists.)
Reality is that subjecting people to unfair taxes that don't gain them any benefit in any way is going to result in the subjects in question feeling that they DO have the right to gain some sort of benefit from the taxes in question. They will perform the activity that is "covered" by the levy, they will demand changes to justify the levy or change the attitudes of those who created them, they will revolt against the levies, et cetera.
Reality is that, contrary to a lot of the postings I see here on Slashdot on all kinds of subjects, most people are NOT stupid enough to sit idly by and let themselves be cheated. They'll say "OK, tax me and I'll do whatever you're taxing me for to get my money's worth out of this tax." Hit people in the pocketbook, as happened all those centuries ago, and they will notice.
Continuing to believe otherwise is choosing to turn a blind eye to reality.
Yep, definitely good it's not on the CCD. At least stuck pixels on the CCD can be cloned out in Photoshop, and some cameras have smart firmware that adjust images in-camera to do this. I don't think the D70 does, though.
Is it, really? The purpose of the levy is to make sure that things that are copied are paid for, that the right people get compensated for whatever they're getting compensated for. If one pays the levy, one is paying for what one does. So there's no justification for anyone to complain when you do what you have earned the ability to do by paying the levy?
I pay money every year for the tax levies appropriate to registering a car and having a license to drive said car. That's what I get in exchange for paying the levy. If I pay the levy but don't drive, then I've wasted my money. If someone arbitrarily comes along and tells me, for no reason, "you can't drive even though you paid the levy", I think I've got a reason to be angry, and I'd want my money back.
While in some cases, levies can be insignificant compared to the purchase cost of an item, and sometimes they're not, if you're going to just focus on the percentage of this and the percentage of that, you are missing the entire point. We pay the levy, we earn the right to perform the activity which is covered by that levy. If you don't want people doing it, don't set up a scheme to compensate for the fact that it is done.
Most likely because a lot of people here may not study geography, etc. I have, but then I'm a generalist of sorts, but eh. It all depends on what you find interesting, I guess. And perhaps partly because of the fact that movies, TV, etc. don't do a great job of explaining what's where.
Less prejudice than ignorance, at least most of the time I've seen this happen. But I think it's stupid that it's happening at all. Didn't we learn anything from the last few times this happened?
Doc: "No wonder this circuit failed. It says 'Made in Japan'.
Marty: "But Doc. All the good stuff is made in Japan!"
Doc: "Huh."
Exactly ... and if there IS a defect, it can be more or less annoying depending on where it is. I own a Nikon D70 camera and I got one with no dead or stuck pixels (that I have seen so far). A friend bought one when he found out how much I love it, and his has a stuck (green) pixel in the lower center area of the rear display. It's more annoying there than it would have been if it was off to the side, or if it was red or blue instead (since our eyes are more sensitive to green, it stands out more). We are not sure if Nikon would be willing to replace the screen or not.
I think the point was just that the voice had a heavy foreign accent, so they were either not in the US (perhaps they use VoIP?) or their staff is recent (first-generation) immigrants. Nothing more than that. This is Slashdot -- not everyone's a linguist. ;)
Don't give them any ideas... you don't want to know what mine cost as it is. (fortunately, I only need one)
By doing this, they're legitimizing the same activities they claim to be trying to stop. If you are going to pass a levy to compensate for something, you can't expect anyone to listen when you tell them to stop. They will (rightly) say "I paid an extra tax on this equipment to cover the cost of what I'm doing." They'll either have to stop charging a levy or fin that no one will listen.
That's why I'd suggested the front page of organizations' websites. I agree -- it shouldn't go in the journal itself.
That's the inherent problem: how do you convince the public that these things are actually benefiting them and that they should donate? I don't know the answer, and I can tell you don't either. But I do think that at least some people would -- mostly geeks, at least at first, and science types. The problem is that a lot of people don't understand the benefits of this stuff, largely because they don't "get it".
Perhaps. But, and I think this may be the source of the misunderstanding here, my hope is that sites like PLoS can get the public to be aware of their existence and place Paypal donation buttons on their home pages and get help from the public at large, not just the scientific community.
If enough people support the idea of PLoS, they might donate. I never said it was unrelated. It could happen -- people donate to all sorts of things to make them work.