That's why we have innocent until proven guilty in the United States at least. You don't have to prove that you didn't break the contract, they have to prove that you did.
That's also why there are separate non-compete agreements.
Some people here are getting the two confused. At least the NDA's I have signed only said that I couldn't reveal any "secrets" that I learned while there. It did not say that I couldn't work for their competitors for a certain length of time. In the interview process, being asked to sign the former doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
I can't say it was never done. I was only on the Office team for about two years between 97 and 98. By that time though, from an outsiders perspective (I was just doing international builds of outlook), the two teams did not seem to like each other at all.
**But the OS company will no longer have the App company to prop them up, and vice versa. The OS company would need to publish all of their API's for everyone to see, not just giving the ones they want to give. That would allow other developers to create other Office suites with the same functionality as Office. ***
What evidence do you have that any secret API's were given out by the Windows team? I actually have worked as a contractor on the office team and saw how they and the windows team interacted, and the only secret API's I could see being handed out were ones that would make office run slower. Ok, communication quite wasn't that bad, but giving us top secret API's was the furthest thing from their mind.
Besides, if you accept that these secret API's exist, then you must think that Office is somehow a better product than other office suites. How many people who accept the API argument, also think that Office is far inferior to WordPerfect? You can't have it both ways.
**Maybe the times of multimillionaire artists just are over. In the future artists work open- source-styled, just for the enjoyment for themselves and everyone else, the only reward being publicity and respect. **
Ain't gonna happen. Even if Bruce Springsteen gave away all of his albums tomorrow, there still would be many people willing to pay $70 a pop to see him perform live. There might be movement towards more openess involving taping of concerts to be freely distributable, but I see little way that bands that many people want to see will fail to become rich.
Spend a few minutes wondering what will happen to the people who would get thrown out of work by a Microsoft collapse. Try to figure out the consequences on the economy, and the real life fallout will ensue. After you spend a minute or two thinking about that, then post your screeds.
PWH:
That's exactly the argument used here in the UK in defence of selling Hawk fighters and riot control equipment to Indonesia. It doesn't wash. Microsoft's collapse may have bad effects, but that's no reason to stop it happening.
MY RESPONSE:
I didn't say think about that and then give up. I said, think about it and then post. Just be aware that there are consequences to this action. Real people, not just Bill Gates will be hurt.
It's comments like "And even though Bill Gates should get the chair for his evil ways" that make me think that the readers of/. need to spend some time away from their computers.
Yes Microsoft put out some software you don't like. Big deal. Like most people here, you don't have to use it!
Spend a few minutes wondering what will happen to the people who would get thrown out of work by a Microsoft collapse. Try to figure out the consequences on the economy, and the real life fallout will ensue. After you spend a minute or two thinking about that, then post your screeds.
Why would any professional use minidisc when they could buy a pro dat. I go to concerts that allow taping, and in the tapers section Minidiscs are always thrown at the end of the chain after all of the DAT's. 74 minutes is nothing compared to DAT's 2-3 hours.
***. Now that everyone and their dog (in North America anyway) has a cable modem or DSL line it is increasingly easier to transfer 256K MP3s - which are near CD quality. ***
I wish. I live in Seattle (high tech mecca) and I can't get either.
***I've pondered the whole installing issue many times. My current theory is that the reason so many people are able to "install" win9x is that they buy computers with it pre-installed. I think most people *couldn't* install win9x, nor could they install a linux dist. Hell, I still have problems with Redhats installation and I've been using it for a couple of years***
I don't buy this. In the course of my job I've had to install Win9x and NT 4/5 many times.... in languages I don't understand. If I can install Korean Win95 without even knowing the alphabet (I just kept hitting the enter key whenever there was an option), I find it hard to think than an intelligent user would have a hard time installing. Sure a stupid user might have a problem, but not an intelligent one.
Conversly, there seems to be a general assumption that even for intelligent people, the first time installing Linux is going to be rough. My first time trying to install Linux, it told me "mount failed" after I partitioned the hard drive and I could never get beyond that. I think the problem might have been the hard drive though and I plan to try again this weekend.
There are things that Linux does better than Windows, but - at least the install process for now - is something that Windows does far better than Linux.
Caveat- I am a contractor working at Microsoft. While, I don't have the knee jerk dislike for the company (and think M$ has brought many good things to the computer world), I also am not a knee jerk supporter. I *am* trying to get up a linux box or two after all:)
Slashdot Mirror
How about the Neo 35 (
http://ssiamerica.com/products/neo35/)?
I don't know if it runs under linux, but it sure does give bang for the buck.
That's why we have innocent until proven guilty in the United States at least. You don't have to prove that you didn't break the contract, they have to prove that you did.
That's also why there are separate non-compete agreements.
Some people here are getting the two confused. At least the NDA's I have signed only said that I couldn't reveal any "secrets" that I learned while there. It did not say that I couldn't work for their competitors for a certain length of time. In the interview process, being asked to sign the former doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
I can't say it was never done. I was only on the Office team for about two years between 97 and 98. By that time though, from an outsiders perspective (I was just doing international builds of outlook), the two teams did not seem to like each other at all.
**But the OS company will no longer have the App company to prop them up, and vice versa. The OS company would need to publish all of their API's for everyone to see, not just giving the ones they want to give. That would allow other developers to create other Office suites with the same functionality as Office. ***
What evidence do you have that any secret API's were given out by the Windows team? I actually have worked as a contractor on the office team and saw how they and the windows team interacted, and the only secret API's I could see being handed out were ones that would make office run slower. Ok, communication quite wasn't that bad, but giving us top secret API's was the furthest thing from their mind.
Besides, if you accept that these secret API's exist, then you must think that Office is somehow a better product than other office suites. How many people who accept the API argument, also think that Office is far inferior to WordPerfect? You can't have it both ways.
Get a Vinyl-R drive and attach it to your computer.
**Maybe the times of multimillionaire artists just
are over. In the future artists work open-
source-styled, just for the enjoyment for
themselves and everyone else, the only reward
being publicity and respect. **
Ain't gonna happen. Even if Bruce Springsteen gave away all of his albums tomorrow, there still would be many people willing to pay $70 a pop to see him perform live. There might be movement towards more openess involving taping of concerts to be freely distributable, but I see little way that bands that many people want to see will fail to become rich.
ME:
Spend a few minutes wondering what will happen to the people who would get thrown out of work by a Microsoft collapse. Try to figure out the consequences on the economy, and the real life fallout will ensue. After you spend a minute or two thinking about that, then post your screeds.
PWH:
That's exactly the argument used here in the UK in defence of selling Hawk fighters and riot control equipment to Indonesia. It doesn't wash. Microsoft's collapse may have bad effects, but that's no reason to stop it happening.
MY RESPONSE:
I didn't say think about that and then give up. I said, think about it and then post. Just be aware that there are consequences to this action. Real people, not just Bill Gates will be hurt.
It's comments like "And even though Bill Gates should get the chair for his evil ways" that make me think that the readers of /. need to spend some time away from their computers.
Yes Microsoft put out some software you don't like. Big deal. Like most people here, you don't have to use it!
Spend a few minutes wondering what will happen to the people who would get thrown out of work by a Microsoft collapse. Try to figure out the consequences on the economy, and the real life fallout will ensue. After you spend a minute or two thinking about that, then post your screeds.
Why would any professional use minidisc when they could buy a pro dat. I go to concerts that allow taping, and in the tapers section Minidiscs are always thrown at the end of the chain after all of the DAT's. 74 minutes is nothing compared to DAT's 2-3 hours.
***. Now that everyone and their dog (in North America anyway) has a cable modem or DSL line it is increasingly easier to transfer 256K MP3s - which are near CD quality. ***
I wish. I live in Seattle (high tech mecca) and I can't get either.
***I've pondered the whole installing issue many times. My current theory is that the reason so many people are able to "install" win9x is that they buy computers with it pre-installed. I think most people *couldn't* install win9x, nor could they install a linux dist. Hell, I still have problems with Redhats installation and I've been using it for a couple of years***
:)
I don't buy this. In the course of my job I've had to install Win9x and NT 4/5 many times.... in languages I don't understand. If I can install Korean Win95 without even knowing the alphabet (I just kept hitting the enter key whenever there was an option), I find it hard to think than an intelligent user would have a hard time installing. Sure a stupid user might have a problem, but not an intelligent one.
Conversly, there seems to be a general assumption that even for intelligent people, the first time installing Linux is going to be rough. My first time trying to install Linux, it told me "mount failed" after I partitioned the hard drive and I could never get beyond that. I think the problem might have been the hard drive though and I plan to try again this weekend.
There are things that Linux does better than Windows, but - at least the install process for now - is something that Windows does far better than Linux.
Caveat- I am a contractor working at Microsoft. While, I don't have the knee jerk dislike for the company (and think M$ has brought many good things to the computer world), I also am not a knee jerk supporter. I *am* trying to get up a linux box or two after all