With such apparent degree of propaganda spread out by MSM, no wonder that so many Westerners held such idiotic beliefs about the modern Russia. Good that Russia has nuclear weapons to protect itself from any further attack from the Western powers-that-be.
Although "Putin has jailed his critics, restricted the press, and rigged the electoral system" is the kind of the story most likely to appear in the Western press, it is a debatable opinion at best.
Although there are a lot of Putin's critics in Russia, yet, a good part of the population (over 60% per Levada Center polls) actually support him.
Personally, I voted for Putin. And not just because I love him so much (I do not), but because the opposition is too weak. And it's weak not because its leaders are being jailed (they are not), but because they do not understand demands of folks like me.
Lastly, although I understand that you are a victim of Western MSM propaganda, I find attacks on the President of my country personally offensive. Like it or not, but VVP was elected by over 60% of voters who took part in the election. Either you in the West accept this little fact, or Russia would be better off with China.
I ask you: This is not fun. Attacks on Putin do not help anybody. Please, stop.
"Did I not just show you that the US cares very little about Russia in general and Putin in particular? Please try to keep up.
And what entire picture are you talking about? What entire picture justifies Putin appointing himself president, or mass murder of civilians by Bashar Assad?"
Of course, the American media are not free -- at least, they have a very strict agenda when it comes to Russia. Like, Putin is bad, and opposition (whatever you mean by it) is good. In fact, Putin is not bad, and opposition is not good. They are all just normal guys like you or me. Putin has won the free and fair election (like, there were debates in prime time, everything was cool, with blackjack and hookers), and none of the opposition could challenge him because they are not his class (although perfectly normal guys like you or me or Putin).
"As long as those organizations do not break the law, nobody can stop the Saudis from doing that."
Yes, Saudis are your best friends. You even allow them to hijack planes in order to destroy skyscrapers. But, of course, your problem is Putin, Syria, Gaddafi, you name it. Cool that you have an ideology which allows you to tell good from bad, without the need to consider the entire picture.
"Whether you are a citizen of Russia or the US you can go to the website of the US State Department at http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/bib/ [state.gov] , look at its budget, and see what it exactly it spends the US tax payer's money on."
Thank you, I have had a look at it. But that level of details in insufficient. What I want is a person-to-money breakdown. E.g., such citizen of Russia has received such sum of money from such NGO, funded from such NED grant... I.e., I want a law analogous to the U.S. Foreign Agents Registration Act. It's a pity that no such law exists in Russia. But the U.S. Government could demand its agents to act accordingly, and it would show good will. (I'm not talking about spies -- but about benefitiaries of the USAID grants in Russia).
"By the way, what exactly is wrong with setting up an NGO in another country?"
Nothing at all. You seem to have missed my point that it's the lack of transparency that is a problem.
"The truth is that the vast majority of the Americans couldn't care less about Russia, and the US State Department has quite a few other issues to deal with."
So you say and I have no reasons to doubt your good judgement.
But if you are an American, the U.S. State Dept is accountable to you. Very unfortunately, that's not a case if you are a Russian. Don't you think that we, citizens of Russia (forget Putin for now!), have a right to know what exactly were the 160 millions American dollars spent for?
http://en.rian.ru/society/20111215/170257975.html
Like, it's not a big issue if all these monetary flows are transparent. What Russians are worried about is the lack of transparency. Do you think that people in Russia do not have a right to know who receives U.S. State Dept. money in their country, and for which services?
Cool that you follow Russian media! Which Russian newspapers / internet resources do you read? May be, I could advise you some different good Russian news resource? After all, I live in Russia and know well many of the good places in the Internet.:-)
The funniest thing about the democracy is how the U.S. can finance the Russian opposition groups while publicly denying doing that.
The funniest thing about the modern Russia is how it can leak out the recording of a private conversation of the U.S. Ambassator to Russia Michael McFaul proving that the U.S. actually is about to meddle with the internal Russian affairs, without anybody giving a damn:
By the way, if you have a look at The Moral Code of the Builder of Communism, you would see that it says nothing about a welfare state or entitlement mentality. Rather than that: "he who does not work, neither shall he eat". So, rather, it looks like some code of corporate ethics, doesn't it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Code_of_the_Builder_of_Communism
But it's so unusual that an American speaks in favor of a welfare state and supports the entitlement mentality. Is that because that's how Russians are supposed to think?
Thank you, you've reminded me that Putin does not pay me for commenting. I have enjoyed our conversation, but I really need to go back to my work.
You've said: "Russia makes trillions on oil and gas, Russians should live like kings."
Let's consider oil. Russia produces 10 million barrels of oil per day. Multiply that by the price of a barrel (~100$) and divide that by Russia's population (140 million). You will get about 7$ a day. Incredible money!
Now what about gas? The net income of Gazprom in 2010 was 32 billion $. Divide that by 140 million -- you will get 230$ each year.
What a pity that you don't live in Russia! You would live like a king!
You've said: "Given the lack of upward mobility, these folks are now wondering why is it that a bunch of Politburo style old farts are running the country and not sharing the wealth. Given the lack of the proper political system, the only way for these folks to get what they want will be to overthrow the government one way or another."
Do I understand you correctly that you believe there's a lot of young folks in Russia who have a global competitive edge, but cannot fully realize their true economic potential due to the inefficient political system?
First, it's a bit of a strange view, because most often the young people would start their careers as hired workers. What should matter the most for them at that point is getting a proper education, which is impossible without adequate governmental educational policies. So, at least in order get a proper start of their careers, young people should rely on the Government, rather than free market.
Second, if and when the young people become mature as hired workers and would consider starting their own businesses, they would be already in their 30s-40s. So, you would like to give the generation of mid-80's another 15 years. Unfortunately, by that time they would sort of absorb the ideas of bribery, if they have any ideals left by now. So, they would bribe the officials to get what they want.
Essentially, the only institution in Russia interested in getting rid of the corruption is the government itself, because getting rid of the corruption would maximize the amount of funds at their disposal (received as taxes and fines).
You've described some magic country that I am not able to see. Isn't it the U.S. where the young people believe the wealth is not fairly distributed and dream of the Socialism?
http://exiledonline.com/thirty-more-years-of-hell/
I am not sure if you are going to believe it, but at the following address they used to have the voting preferences for November and December 2011:
http://www.russiavotes.org/duma/duma_vote_2011.php
I checked it in December 2011, and they had the results for the November. Some time after that, I remember seeing the results for the December 2011. Now, however, they show only the results up to August 2011.
Hey, I'm a Russian like you. Don't you think I haven't already debated the point (1) times and again in the month following the election? Estimations from the public opinion polls preceding and following the election allow to suggest that the vote count was overall fair. However, most certainly there were isolated cases of fraud.
(3) For Russia, +- 6 years will not make a difference. As for me personally, I don't care that much.
There's a saying "It does not matter how people vote, but what matters is who counts the votes." If you flip the coin over, you'll get "It doesn't matter how do you count the votes, what matters is who decides if the vote was free and fair".
Like any movement, this movement has political leaders who will harvest the political crops when the situation is ripe.
Slashdot Mirror
With such apparent degree of propaganda spread out by MSM, no wonder that so many Westerners held such idiotic beliefs about the modern Russia. Good that Russia has nuclear weapons to protect itself from any further attack from the Western powers-that-be.
Thanks for a thoughtful comment. It's positive to know that not everybody in the United States trusts the MSM coverage of Russia.
Although there are a lot of Putin's critics in Russia, yet, a good part of the population (over 60% per Levada Center polls) actually support him.
Personally, I voted for Putin. And not just because I love him so much (I do not), but because the opposition is too weak. And it's weak not because its leaders are being jailed (they are not), but because they do not understand demands of folks like me.
Lastly, although I understand that you are a victim of Western MSM propaganda, I find attacks on the President of my country personally offensive. Like it or not, but VVP was elected by over 60% of voters who took part in the election. Either you in the West accept this little fact, or Russia would be better off with China.
I ask you: This is not fun. Attacks on Putin do not help anybody. Please, stop.
Cool. You are reading some of the most engaged, radical and fringe Russian media. Hope you like it, though!
"Did I not just show you that the US cares very little about Russia in general and Putin in particular? Please try to keep up. And what entire picture are you talking about? What entire picture justifies Putin appointing himself president, or mass murder of civilians by Bashar Assad?" Of course, the American media are not free -- at least, they have a very strict agenda when it comes to Russia. Like, Putin is bad, and opposition (whatever you mean by it) is good. In fact, Putin is not bad, and opposition is not good. They are all just normal guys like you or me. Putin has won the free and fair election (like, there were debates in prime time, everything was cool, with blackjack and hookers), and none of the opposition could challenge him because they are not his class (although perfectly normal guys like you or me or Putin).
Yes, Saudis are your best friends. You even allow them to hijack planes in order to destroy skyscrapers. But, of course, your problem is Putin, Syria, Gaddafi, you name it. Cool that you have an ideology which allows you to tell good from bad, without the need to consider the entire picture.
Thank you, I have had a look at it. But that level of details in insufficient. What I want is a person-to-money breakdown. E.g., such citizen of Russia has received such sum of money from such NGO, funded from such NED grant... I.e., I want a law analogous to the U.S. Foreign Agents Registration Act. It's a pity that no such law exists in Russia. But the U.S. Government could demand its agents to act accordingly, and it would show good will. (I'm not talking about spies -- but about benefitiaries of the USAID grants in Russia).
"By the way, what exactly is wrong with setting up an NGO in another country?"
Nothing at all. You seem to have missed my point that it's the lack of transparency that is a problem.
So you say and I have no reasons to doubt your good judgement.
But if you are an American, the U.S. State Dept is accountable to you. Very unfortunately, that's not a case if you are a Russian. Don't you think that we, citizens of Russia (forget Putin for now!), have a right to know what exactly were the 160 millions American dollars spent for? http://en.rian.ru/society/20111215/170257975.html
Like, it's not a big issue if all these monetary flows are transparent. What Russians are worried about is the lack of transparency. Do you think that people in Russia do not have a right to know who receives U.S. State Dept. money in their country, and for which services?
Cool that you follow Russian media! Which Russian newspapers / internet resources do you read? May be, I could advise you some different good Russian news resource? After all, I live in Russia and know well many of the good places in the Internet. :-)
English Pravda is just a gathering place for the Western opposition. None of the Russians is reading it.
The funniest thing about the modern Russia is how it can leak out the recording of a private conversation of the U.S. Ambassator to Russia Michael McFaul proving that the U.S. actually is about to meddle with the internal Russian affairs, without anybody giving a damn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFbB7-lTDoo
By the way, if you have a look at The Moral Code of the Builder of Communism, you would see that it says nothing about a welfare state or entitlement mentality. Rather than that: "he who does not work, neither shall he eat". So, rather, it looks like some code of corporate ethics, doesn't it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Code_of_the_Builder_of_Communism
Thank you, you've reminded me that Putin does not pay me for commenting. I have enjoyed our conversation, but I really need to go back to my work.
No, I am not.
Let's consider oil. Russia produces 10 million barrels of oil per day. Multiply that by the price of a barrel (~100$) and divide that by Russia's population (140 million). You will get about 7$ a day. Incredible money!
Now what about gas? The net income of Gazprom in 2010 was 32 billion $. Divide that by 140 million -- you will get 230$ each year.
What a pity that you don't live in Russia! You would live like a king!
Do I understand you correctly that you believe there's a lot of young folks in Russia who have a global competitive edge, but cannot fully realize their true economic potential due to the inefficient political system?
First, it's a bit of a strange view, because most often the young people would start their careers as hired workers. What should matter the most for them at that point is getting a proper education, which is impossible without adequate governmental educational policies. So, at least in order get a proper start of their careers, young people should rely on the Government, rather than free market.
Second, if and when the young people become mature as hired workers and would consider starting their own businesses, they would be already in their 30s-40s. So, you would like to give the generation of mid-80's another 15 years. Unfortunately, by that time they would sort of absorb the ideas of bribery, if they have any ideals left by now. So, they would bribe the officials to get what they want.
Essentially, the only institution in Russia interested in getting rid of the corruption is the government itself, because getting rid of the corruption would maximize the amount of funds at their disposal (received as taxes and fines).
You've described some magic country that I am not able to see. Isn't it the U.S. where the young people believe the wealth is not fairly distributed and dream of the Socialism? http://exiledonline.com/thirty-more-years-of-hell/
Below I have provided the link to the November Levada press release: http://www.levada.ru/25-11-2011/noyabrskie-reitingi-odobreniya-i-doveriya-reitingi-partii You can see the section "party ratings" there.
Oh. And, also, very interesting. There's a December press release (after the election), in which people were asked who did they vote for: http://www.levada.ru/22-12-2011/dekabrskie-reitingi-odobreniya-i-doveriya
http://www.levada.ru/25-11-2011/noyabrskie-reitingi-odobreniya-i-doveriya-reitingi-partii
The Levada Center is independent. Here you can see a shot of its early history, as a breakaway from the VTSIOM: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1001/p07s02-woeu.html
I am not sure if you are going to believe it, but at the following address they used to have the voting preferences for November and December 2011: http://www.russiavotes.org/duma/duma_vote_2011.php I checked it in December 2011, and they had the results for the November. Some time after that, I remember seeing the results for the December 2011. Now, however, they show only the results up to August 2011.
That is, in my view, the actual fraud is the story about the fraud.
(3) For Russia, +- 6 years will not make a difference. As for me personally, I don't care that much.
I disagree with the point 1. I voted for the commies, I believe my vote was counted, and I think the issue is over. That's my opinion, that is.
I partially agree with the point 2 (investigation is a good idea).
Point 3 is seemingly going to be done by the authorities either way.
Please, let me have a look. So far I have not seen them.
There's a saying "It does not matter how people vote, but what matters is who counts the votes." If you flip the coin over, you'll get "It doesn't matter how do you count the votes, what matters is who decides if the vote was free and fair". Like any movement, this movement has political leaders who will harvest the political crops when the situation is ripe.