Russia's Internet Blacklist Law Takes Effect

another random user writes with this report from the BBC "A law that aims to protect children from harmful internet content by allowing the government to take sites offline has taken effect in Russia. The authorities are now able to blacklist and force offline certain websites without a trial. The law was approved by both houses of parliament and signed by President Vladimir Putin in July. If the websites themselves cannot be shut down, internet service providers (ISPs) and web hosting companies can be forced to block access to the offending material."

Comments

Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd have so much more respect for governments if they'd just come out and say "we're doing it because fuck you people who think different."

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Dan East]

Russia has the 4th highest alcohol consumption per capita in the world (behind Moldova, Czech Republic and Hungary - all former Soviet republics), with no laws specifying a minimum drinking age (minimum age to purchase is 18). Why not think of those children first if they're hell bent on making laws protecting children?

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, TFA says that a poll taken in July when the law was passed, shows that the Russian people support the blacklist 62% to 16%. The Russian government seems to have the support of the people on this issue.

That's always been a danger of democracy: it's very easy for the population to vote away their freedom, but once gone, it's not so easy to get it back.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

Only Moldova was a former Soviet Republic. (The others were indeed Warsaw Pact countries, though).

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Jeng]

Well, TFA says that a poll taken in July when the law was passed, shows that the Russian people support the blacklist 62% to 16%. The Russian government seems to have the support of the people on this issue.

That's always been a danger of democracy: it's very easy for the population to vote away their freedom, but once gone, it's not so easy to get it back.

Yes, because polls are 100% accurate and never falsified to help those who have the power for the poll results to be falsified.

Russia is going back to a dictatorial government and the Russian population can do nothing about it.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose you have evidence that the poll mentioned in TFA was falsified?

Poll confirming my world view = truth!
Poll disagreeing with my world view = conspiracy!

Bit simplistic wouldn't you say?

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Jeng]

If you read a story about a poll in China where 90% or more of the Chinese people support censorship would you believe the poll?

I find all polls suspect, some more than others.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[hairyfeet]

And how many responded in those polls? Was there ANY oversight to them at all, or was it just as useless as a phone poll here in the USA? After all I'm sure I can find 40 people that would say I should have the official title of "King God Of The Mountain" but that don't mean "the people" are behind that, it just means I found 40 bums and handed them a bottle of booze.

Never forget how easy it is to manipulate people with "polls" as we saw here in the USA in the lead up to Iraq. In fact I gave one of those phone pollers hell for using such leading questions they may have well just come out and said "Are you for murdering babies, or saving them by invading Iraq?" because the questions were SO leading it would make anyone who didn't go along sound like a monster.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, that's nothing. I saw a poll where 82% of the people thought polls should be illegal! :p

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[poetmatt]

Russia? The land known for being the absolutely worst for polls? Where polls have greater than 100% turnout?

Excuse me if I'm extremely skeptical that even a single individual voted positively for a blacklist without being under political duress or physical coercion, let alone manipulation.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[war4peace]

Wow, your history knowledge is unbelievably messed up.
Moldova is indeed a former Soviet Union Republic. Others are not.
Also, minimum legal age to drink alcoholic beverages is usually 18. That applies to both purchase AND drinking itself. But, to be honest, even if laws do exist, they need to also be enforced, which doesn't really happen.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I guess the answer to the question about having evidence of the invalidity of the poll mentioned in the TFA is "no". Got it.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[alexo]

Well, TFA says that a poll taken in July when the law was passed, shows that the Russian people support the blacklist 62% to 16%. The Russian government seems to have the support of the people on this issue.

Of course.

The Russian people is known to be very active in their support for their government.
In fact, in the last parliamentary elections, the voter turnout was up to 146%.

You cannot argue with such numbers.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[nickol]

What do you mean by "going back" ? We are already there.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Jeng]

As is the question of any evidence of the possible validity of the poll mentioned in TFA.

You cannot say one way or the other if it is or is not valid, that is one of the biggest problems with polls.

There are Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

Polls are Statistics.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[SplashMyBandit]

You do realise that the progress towards free press has been dismantled by the Kremlin in recent years. The journalists are routinely brutally killed or disappeared, and their cases not investigated. So the Kremlin puts out whatever news it likes, even bizarre stuff, and there is no-one to challenge it. Reasonable people are presented with sets of facts designed to funnel their conclusion (yes this happens in the Free World, but there are alternative news sources counter-balancing the worst of it).

So it is probably fair to say that "polls" in contemporary Russia need to viewed with a great deal of skepticism. Far more important are what the dissenting views have to say (although they are systematically being stifled by the regime).

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

International Alert/Breaking News/ WAR TELEGRAPH: Portugal is closer to dictatorship than democracy! War in Europe is inevitable and Portugal should leave the Euro.

For Vasco Lourenço (commander of the 1974 April revolution that freed Portugal from dictatorship), the continuation of this policy will generate situations absolutely degrading.

Vasco Lourenço accuses the Government of being impoverishing the country in an intentional and the service of international finance capital, which classifies as criminal. It's criminal.

In my opinion, there is not a lack of competence, because I do not want to believe that they [the government] are so stupid they do not realize that this is not achieved recovery keeping the welfare of the population, he says.

In an interview with Lusa, Captain April is convinced that the impoverishment of the country is intentional, the result of a neoliberal ideology that wants to impoverish people, cause unemployment, create a situation of scorched earth to try to plant the following again starting almost from scratch. For Vasco Lourenço, the pursuit of this policy will generate situations absolutely degrading, as the increase in suicides, emigration and destruction of the country. Therefore, do not consider them absolutely nothing patriotic. Are the service of international finance capital. In the service of our country I think not.

In the logic of destroying to grow again, the official has no doubt that the new farmers would be foreign companies, since it is already the retail selling off the country. Vasco Lourenço regrets that the Government say that exports are increasing and the big blind which is the share of exports that gold is being bought people and is then melted and exported. Captain April has no doubt that Portugal is closer to dictatorship than democracy.

When we pick up the Constitution and say, as I said Miguel Relvas here a few times, in times of crisis that the constitution is a fait-divers, a detail, when the Constitutional Court takes certain attitudes and the executive does not care when it openly advocates that whether to end the Constitutional Court because the government should be above all this are situations dictatorship, not democracy. The dictator is, in the opinion of Vasco Lourenço, the financial capital that is blinded by intensive and immediate profit and not see what is killing their own golden goose.

But it warns that there comes a slave revolt and that for this floor there will be violence. I just hope that either the security forces or the armed forces not accept being instruments of repression against the population when it revolting, probably because the dictator will try to impose their will.

Attacking journalism is no strategy to achieve democratic society. Vasco Lourenço believes that the attack the media is a strategy to achieve a non-democratic. If I want to achieve certain goals and create certain kind of society have to attack everything that hinders the achievement of these objectives. If you intend to achieve a democratic society is not a society extremely unjust, impoverished, with huge unemployment, free attack on the press, he said.

In the context of crisis the country is experiencing, Vasco Lourenço not believe layoffs, budget cuts, the sale of securities and the possibility of privatization are merely the result of austerity, justifying it with the fact that the free media to be one of major obstacles to which a company can achieve undemocratic. I see the attack that is preparing to Lusa. If we end up with the free agency of information and autonomous, as it has worked, (...) ends with almost everything , he said.

Next comes the television says Vasco Lourenço, convinced that everything is prepared so that there is tools for fighting the neoliberal. As for the possible purchase of several titles of newspapers and radio by an Angolan group, the official believes that there is the flip side of colonization. I hope that if they want [the Angolans] oc

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have proof that polls are regularly falsified in Russia, I would eagerly like to review your data. Otherwise, no proof to the contrary, why shouldn't we believe what the TFA reports? It really does seem you wish to dismiss any poll results that disagrees with your worldview as part of conspiracy. That is paranoid delusional thinking.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

You seems to think that asking questions about the validity of a poll is the same thing as offering proof of a conspiracy to fix it. If you actually have some proof, I would like to review it.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Jeng]

In that case put forth proof that it is valid.

Right now it is my word against your and you are nothing but an Anonymous Coward.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Meyaht]

NOT letting kids drink in Russia would be a heinous act.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Hatta]

"Think differently."

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

You've made a positive claim that Russian polls are fixed which generally means the burden of proof is on you to prove your assertion. That's logic 101, my dear.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Capsaicin]

Russia? The land known for being the absolutely worst for polls? Where polls have greater than 100% turnout?

Excuse me if I'm extremely skeptical that even a single individual voted positively for a blacklist without being under political duress or physical coercion, let alone manipulation.

Umm we're talking a privately conducted opinion poll. I'm extremely sceptical that private pollsters generally employ "undue political duress or physical coercion" ... except for Gallup of course.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Jeng]

Actually it was more so that polls are almost exclusively bullshit was the claim. You are the one that made it out to be Russian polls in particular

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Jeng]

Fine, I googled it, lots of hits, take your pick.

russian falsified polls.

I found this one rather entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2J-7OFxxgA

If even the elections are rigged, are you going to believe a random poll in the media?

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[hairyfeet]

Lol wut? I asked HOW MANY responded, and were the questions leading...and that makes it a "conspiracy"? Vlad, is that you?

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[FilatovEV]

With such apparent degree of propaganda spread out by MSM, no wonder that so many Westerners held such idiotic beliefs about the modern Russia. Good that Russia has nuclear weapons to protect itself from any further attack from the Western powers-that-be.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure what you would achieve with setting a legal age of drinking for kids in Russia. If you look at other countries that don't have a legal age for drinking but only for purchasing the rate of alcoholism in the countries are not as astounding as in Russia: Greece, Norway, Sweden, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, New Zealand.
The alcoholism thing in Russia is a cultural problem which should be addressed as a separate thing, but will be difficult considering it has been there for many generations.

What Putin wanted to achieve with this internet law is simple control over the internet and the possibility of blocking content at will for "the benefit if the feeble minded kids" where "kids" is anyone who is not Vlad Putin.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[SplashMyBandit]

Ah, the usual bullshit coming out of Russia from someone who is sucking up the verifiably false information coming from the Kremlin-controlled news organizations. You can keep your country, thank you very much, we don't want it. We would like it to be that the citizens of your country are properly represented and the corruption and increasingly feudal system eradicated.

All I wish for Russia is the following:
* independent judiciary (which Russia does not have have)
* the Rule of Law (which Russia does not have)
* free speech rights (which Russia does not have)
* a free press.

That's all that is required. Everything else will flow from those sooner or later (good governance, multi-party politics, a working economic system of your choice, personal and political freedoms, freedom from arbitrary arrest etc).

Let me say it again, we don't want your country. No one does, and no one has apart from the Fascists (who you'll notice we also fought, all the while supplying a broken Russian Army with arms and equipment to stave off collapse in 1941 & 1942). We have no interested in invading or controlling that regressive place and its subservient populace (apart from a few smart follks). Your worldview is severely distorted if you imagine this is so. That's why it is so laughable you accuse me of listening to propaganda when it is very, very clear you have swallowed the regime's line hook-line and sinker. Just like a good serf you are. Rather than standing up for rights for the people of Russia you'd rather swallow the falsehoods the regime shovels to you (making you no smarter than a clueless North Korean). All the while you probably pour scorn on the mass of St Petersbergers and Muscovites that were out on the streets trying to get the minimum freedoms that much of the rest of the World take for granted. What a muppet! Wake up. We don't want Russia and never have. What we would like is for Russia to join the ranks of civilized nations where its citizens are treated with respect by its government and that its government can be trusted in the international community rather than lying constantly and being stuck in a mindset from thirty years ago.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[FilatovEV]

You have made some good points and some debatable ones. But I need to notice that I am not merely a Russian, but a working Russian, too. And right now I cannot provide any good reply. I will try to make a proper reply within a day or two. Thanks for your notice.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[poetmatt]

This is fucking Russia, caps. A country I would like to visit for my own reasons (heritage), but not one I'd ever defend.

You're really going to believe it's an independent opinion poll is declared as that, in a country where free speech is not allowed? Free speech doesn't guarantee a valid and legitimate independent opinion to be spoken, but a lack of free speech absolutely prevents that concept from existing.

I don't mean that Russia is 100% bad bad, but if you believe that any poll exists in Russia country which is not coerced you are delusional. There's a reason they call it a dictatorship there. The private pollsters don't have to try to influence the public at all - the public in Russia know that merely even responding to the poll can put their lives at risk.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[FilatovEV]

Other than a bunch of personal accusations, your comment makes a serious mistake of treating every view in favor of the strong Russian statehood as a part of pro-Kremlin cheerleading. It's very obvious that you are unaware of the "patriotic opposition" concept and the viewpoint espoused by Sergey Kurginuan.

The more serious criticism of your comment is:

1) I do not care if personally you take any steps to support those in Russia who want more rights. But when you hire the Government of the U.S. to do that job it's an entirely different beast. First, the U.S. state is not accountable to a citizen of Russia like me. Overall, the U.S. Government is a very weak parody on the world government, and shouldn't attempt fixing things it's not supposed to take care of. Second, there's no way for an ordinary U.S. citizen to verify claims made by the U.S. Government in regards of the Russian stuff, which leaves the open way for a massive disinformation campaign which currently takes place.
2) "all the while supplying a broken Russian Army with arms and equipment" which is very well, but the Soviet Government has paid your country for that equipment, which makes it an ordinary business deal for you, rather than a sacrifice or donation as you have implied. Yes, the U.S. had some good business deals with us during the WWII, which is very well but why should we be grateful?

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[SplashMyBandit]

Privet :)

Please note, I'm not a US citizen. I see the flaws in the US system as clearly as you do. However, that doesn't mean when I compare the flawed US system with the flawed Putin regime to me it seems clear which system needs the most work done to correct it.

I have zero problem with strong Russian statehood - provided it is not a bully to its neighbours (yes, yes, that goes for all countries, including the US, China etc). However, a strong Russia is still consistent with the Rule of Law; independent judiciary; free speech and free media. In fact I see Russia strengthened if it had all these things. The current regime stands in the way, or subverts these things, which means that the equilibrium Russia has now is an "unstable equilibrium" rather than the "stable equilibrium" enjoyed by it's European partners.

Well, the patriotic opposition also want fair elections. It turns out that the real opposition also want that too. So why are there not fair elections? It is fairly clear the patriotic opposition are merely another means of control to keep the status quo (which means no fair elections). Just like the actual elections themselves where only weak or puppet candidates were allowed to stand against the opposition. In the same way the Kremlin organize the counter-protest movement, and then rely on nationalist sentiment to fill the numbers. Being proud of your country is one thing (in case you haven't worked it out, other people also have reasons to be proud of their countries too, yeah?) but nationalism is a very very dangerous thing. At the moment it is clear that the regime is using nationalism for manipulative purposes. This is not a good thing and why I object to it. For example, the whole nationalist line about "only United Russia and Putin can protect Russia" is complete crap: no one wants to invade Russia, no one wants to see chaos there, no one wants an unstable state. On the other hand, no one wants Russia to subvert its neighbours, nor repress the legitimate desires of it populace, intellectuals and artists and even the contrarian fringe that pops up everywhere.

So I can understand how someone wants a strong Russia and wholeheartedly agree this is a good thing. But not at the expense of your neighbours, not at the expense of suppressing free speech (what this Slashdot thread is about), not at the expense of ORMON beating up grannies (yes, we see this) or imprisoning a bunch of girls that criticise the increasing muddying of Church and State (which is regressing three hundred years for a European country) - even if those girls do it in a stupid way it is super important that critics are heard. That way the people get to make up their own mind about what is and is not important - they don't get spoon fed slanted information from their government. As a regular watcher of Russia Today I'm always amazed by its reporting compared with Al Jazeera, BBC, CNN, local news, Haaretz etc. All these alternate sources often take positions contrary to each other and contrary to their host governments. Have you never stopped to ask yourself why Russia Today never presents and editorial opinion contrary to the regime's position? perhaps because the puppetmaster's hand is up the journalists ass.

So my question to you is: do you want free speech, free elections, and independent judiciary, and the Rule of Law? If so, then you must oppose (even in thought) those to oppose these goals. To me it seems clear that what is standing in the way of these are not foreign enemies, or multi-nationals but in fact the regime itself as it tries to maintain its power - which has never been legitimized with a free and fair election. If United Russia won a free and fair election while the press and judiciary were also free then I (and the rest of the World) would STFU and say, "it's the will of the Russian people". But it is crystal clear that Tsar Putin and his corrupt court have not been elected fairly and the (free) will of the people has not been determined. This is why we da

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[FilatovEV]

Privet-privet.

1) Public opinion polls, including independent ones by the Levada-Center, very pretty close to the official elections results. Which makes allegations of fraud dubious for me. I prefer to trust statistics, than emotions. The elections were free and fair -- for me; as a 1986-born, I've seen no better. Sorry. And if you want some scholarly opinion, look no farther than Stephen Cohen: "though these elections were not free and fair, they were the freest and fairest in 15 years" http://www.democracynow.org/2011/12/30/election_fraud_galvanizes_russian_opposition_communist

2) And albeit it's a trivial defense, I really do not care that much about speech freedom and such. I care more about economical fairness. Why medical nurses are so low-paid, stuff like that. You can see the my pol. views via the political compass: http://evagen.livejournal.com/39052.html

What I really care about is freedom of conscience. I can tolerate the situation where I either cannot say something or I could but my voice would not count. But I cannot tolerate the situation when I am forced to say something I do not want to say. That speaks about freedom of conscience, rather than freedom of speech. As for speech freedom, I help my friends to run an independent political website, which is fine for me.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[SplashMyBandit]

"though these elections were not free and fair, they were the freest and fairest in 15 years"

is exactly akin to the classic, "he has stopped beating his wife, but it is ok because he only beats her once per day". Just because the vote is less rigged than before still doesn't make the elections "free and fair" (which were your contraditory words earlier in the paragraph). I applaud the progress, but don't think just because there is progress that the regime should be let off the hook. Without pressure it is too easy to stand still or go backwards. This is the vital social function that Pussy Riot and other wierdos serve. I may not agree with the way they make their statements but what the fringe says is often true (but of course, not always true). Once you get elections so free and fair that Stephen Cohen can actually use those words *then* the regime can be defended and I will be too - but no sooner.

2) And albeit it's a trivial defense, I really do not care that much about speech freedom and such. I care more about economical fairness.

This is very very important. There will never be economic fairness and opportunities unless free speech is installed and upheld. Free Speech means it is possible for 'whistleblowers' to point out where there is corruption and favouritism and nepotism. Without Free Speech you simply cannot expose the forces of corruption that will rob you of equal economic opportunity.

To get economic opportunity you need the things I mentioned: independent judiciary; the Rule of Law (no government interefernce); free speech and a free press/media to disseminate the free speech. Once you have these then corruption is exposed, as is favouritism and neoptism. Once you have these supressed and mostly contain then the economic opportunities will come. You will be able to get a job and get promoted based on your merits, not on who you know or paid. Your family will be secure in their home because some corrupt politician can't come and 're-zone' your apartment to some greedy developer. I'm sure you can easily think of other injustices you would like to see eliminated.

Unfortunately you can't put the 'cart before the horse' because of human nature. You can't hope for equal economic opportunity by giving away the freedoms that are required to defend against those that take away the economic opportunity. This is why Russia is still considered somewhat 'backward'. The populace thinks that it will get growth and stability and growth by giving up their rights when in fact it is only by claiming and enforcing their rights that society can be stabilised (when every faction gets to have a say, even if they don't get their way), and economic growth will come (since no corrupt oligarch or politician can use the force of the state to illegally seize your property or demand bribes). Enforce the law equally and the opportunities will come (along with foreign investors with even more money for business growth). Support the repression the regime and Russia has no long term prospects. Even worse, Putin is getting old and is not allowing the country to grow credible candidates to replace him when the time comes. The opposition has already seen this and that is why the protest so much, even in really bad weather and at the risk of being beaten by the corrupt police/militia.

If you really want a healthy Russia (as most countries also do) then the political base needs to be widened, not narrowed. We believe what Putin has done and appears to be continuing may work in the short term but is not good for the health of the country. That's why we can't understand my people would support repression - it is simply not good for the long term of the country.

Here's a recent academic view on the subject (policy free, I promise, hopefully it shouldn't offend you - but I believe what it shows is that Putin is transforming political institutions in a way that is not good long-term for Russia; again, this is something your opposition i

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[SplashMyBandit]

Sorry, my proof-reading is so bad I need to apologize. I meant to say in the first paragraph, "he *not* has stopped beating his wife, but it is ok because he only beats her once per day". Hopefully that paragraph will now reflect the point I was trying to make.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[SplashMyBandit]

Man I'm getting senile. Here's a link to the (academic, non-poltical) video I mentioned. I hope it provides some insight into what outsiders see as going on in your political system:
Global Awareness Lecture - Putinism and Russia's Political Dead End
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOcqdeW7xO8

Here's the great Christopher Hitchens with a slightly different view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS_tjw5psUE

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[FilatovEV]

Thanks for your opinion. It was important for me to hear that. Thanks for the videos, too. I have posted them on our website, for my friends to have a look.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[SplashMyBandit]

Awesome. It's completely cool if you think I'm wrong - at least you have an open mind to the possibility that there may be some new points of view to consider. I hope things work out well for you and your country.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that I can improve best my chance of success if I work hard. And since I pay taxes, that would be positive for my country, too.

But thanks for your good wishes. I wish you and your country to do well, too.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[FilatovEV]

Sorry, it was actually my comment.

Re:Sick of the "for the children" excuse.

[Capsaicin]

You're really going to believe it's an independent opinion poll is declared as that.

If the poll comes from an organisation as reputable as the Levada Centre I will certainly presume it to be independent and free of coercion. If there is good evidence to suggest otherwise that presumption is, as always, rebuttable. However the onus of proof lie on the accuser. And in any case, is it that surprising that 62% of the population would want the "worst" sites on the web blocked?

Every bit as important as freedom of speech is the presumption of innocence. Absent any evidence to the contrary I will assume so respected a source of information to be deliberately misleading the same day I assume all gamers are potential mass shooters and ought to be pre-emptively locked up. There's a reason that rational people have rules of evidence and onus.

Free speech doesn't guarantee a valid and legitimate independent opinion to be spoken, but a lack of free speech absolutely prevents that concept from existing.

Pussy riot? They're not stopping from expressing their opinion, are they? Or as Johnny Rotten put it "you can shut us up, but you can never shut us up." And absolute free speech, like all absolutes, exists only in a vacuum.

... the public in Russia know that merely even responding to the poll can put their lives at risk.

And yet only 62% of the respondents supported the position that the government adopted. Maybe they're not quite as paranoid as you?

... if you believe that any poll exists in Russia country which is not coerced you are delusional

I assure you, whether or not you are correct about the poll, the monopoly on delusional thinking in this conversation is yours.

Another backward contry goes crazy over internet.

[alexmin]

How come this is news to anyone?

Coming soon to the USA

[banbeans]

"for the children"

Re:Coming soon to the USA

[Hentes]

Actually, in this case America was the first.

Re:Coming soon to the USA

[na1led]

"for the children"

That means everyone who is not in charge of Government, because after all, we are just children who need guidance.

Re:Coming soon to the USA

[Anonymous Coward]

How dare you.

You depraved supporter of Pedophiles.
People like you are what's wrong with the Internet.

Re:Coming soon to the USA

[bluie-]

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!

Re:Coming soon to the USA

[Chewbacon]

Won't soneone think of the children?! Their parents seem too busy to. I used to work on radio and got just a couple complaints. Once for language (within FCC limits) another for interviewing a porn star and asking if she ever "dries out" in a shoot. Anyway, I explained many times I am in the entertainment business, not babysitting. Know what your kids are looking at, don't put a computer in the privacy of their own bedrooms, peek over their shoulder and look at their iPad. If you're a parent, you got yourself into this so do some fucking parenting.

When will people learn?

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as you have the net you can't really block portions of it.

First Amendment urrr durrr

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to America!
Oh wait...

Fuck Vladimir Putin and his commie-pedo friends

[Anonymous Coward]

... Will they ban slashdot for this?

Re:Fuck Vladimir Putin and his commie-pedo friends

[Anonymous Coward]

They will now!

first on the list

[wbr1]

First is any site praising pussy riot. Pussy is bad for children you know.
In Putins's Russia, government fucks pussy.

Re:first on the list

[Anonymous Coward]

Only 2 types of people in this world: dicks and pussies.

Re:first on the list

[Jeng]

Um,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372588/quotes

Guy in Bar: See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Chuck. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Chuck. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!

Re:first on the list

[kryliss]

And then there is Jamie Lee Curtis

Re:first on the list

[Anonymous Coward]

Is viewing public sex good for children? And one of the Pussy Riot members' "performance" was a public orgy in a museum:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%95%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%8C_%D0%B7%D0%B0_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B6%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0

No surprise...

[Jintsui]

Just a matter of time before this happens in the U.S. Its obviously too difficult for parents to regulate what their children do..

Re:No surprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

The US government has already done that, hell you can read all about it on the frontpage of slashdot with a story about kim dotcom and how his website was shut down by the US government 'because they felt like it'.

Re:No surprise...

[Jintsui]

His website was shutdown because they felt he was infringing copyrights. Only have the RIAA and MPAA to blame for that one. When the U.S starts shuttting down porn sites, then we should worry.

Re:No surprise...

[SuricouRaven]

The US *does* shut down porn sites. Technically, all internet pornography is illegal in the US. It's just a law that no-one bothers to enforce any more. Occasionally a DA or AG will try to prove his family credentials by taking on a porn site, but it's just embarassing even when they win.

Re:No surprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

As are poker sites, all sorts of internet sites are forced to shut down and not allowed in the USA.

Of course most the people in the USA will never admit they beat Russia to censoring the internet.

Re:No surprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically, all internet pornography is illegal in the US.

No it's not.

Is there a way to see the list of banned sites?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some news sources say that about a dozen of sites have alredy been blocked. I don't see the list on the official site. You can check the site by its DNS name or IP but this is about it.

Is this part of

[bobstreo]

The UN takeover of the Internet? Or just a portent of the way things will work in the future?

Clippy says "I see you're trying to access a site that we think you shouldn't. Would you like me to report you to the authorities?"

Re:Is this part of

[SplashMyBandit]

Russia (and others) are pushing for ITU/UN regulation of the Internet (rather than the US). It is so Russia's internet policy can be applied to the whole of the Internet (rather than having pesky off-shore sites tell the uncomfortable truth).

... and yet we still have educated Slashdotters thinking it would be good if the Internet was handed over without a fight so that UN member nations could extend their censorship laws worldwide (whether for reglious, political or ideological reasons).

Don't give the ideal of Free Speech without a fight - which means don't allow the surrendering of the Free Internet to the corrupt and biased UN without making some noise! More importantly, don't be so anti-Western that you'll apologize for the anti-democratic, fascist and theocratic regimes that want to make this happen.

Don't appease, oppose!

In the first place...

[cvtan]

The internet was not meant for children.
There is no second place.
What's next? Make the internet safe for babies and kittens?

Re:In the first place...

[m1ndcrash]

Kittens rule the internet! **

Re:Ic0m

[Mike_Theory]

...What?

This was inevitable

[Synerg1y]

The means by which the Russian government wants to do this are well... Russian: I say you do. However, this was a long time coming, there's a lot of stuff coming out of there that well is actually illegal there and in the rest of the world: hacking stuff, child porn, warez sites. I don't think they've done much towards trying to control it, and the thing with Russia is even though they pass this law now, doesn't mean they're going to enforce it with due diligence like they do here in the states. Time will tell.

Re:This was inevitable

[firesyde424]

.... doesn't mean they're going to enforce it using unconstitutional methods like they do here in the states.

Fixed that for ya....

Re:This was inevitable

[Jeng]

However, this was a long time coming, there's a lot of stuff coming out of there that well is actually illegal there and in the rest of the world: hacking stuff, child porn, warez sites

The government has no intention of going after their side businesses.

This is going to work well

[Zemran]

They have some of the best web programmers there and a healthy disregard for the authority. I see so many holes appearing on the Berlin Firewall that it will be more of a joke than the Chinese version.

Re:This is going to work well

[Anonymous Coward]

"I see so many holes appearing on the Berlin Firewall that[...]"

You do know that Berlin is in Germany, right? We're talking about Russia here.

Re:This is going to work well

[21mhz]

Agreed, my young friend, though the Berlin Wall was built by East Germany which was a Soviet puppet state.
A better pun would be the Tinfoil Curtain, to harken back to the Iron Curtain of old.
Even then, people were able to listen to shortwave stations from the West, despite jamming. The current attempt is bound to failure, it will cause inconvenience at worst and breed more dissent.

Re:This is going to work well

[firesyde424]

I knew the world was going down the tubes when I was working on a computer in a social studies class at the high school. The teacher was talking about the elections in Russia. At one point, a teenage girl near the front raises her hand and asks: "Where is Russia? Thats like... in South America, isn't it?"

What scared me was not that the girl asked the question but that she did not get laughed out of the class by nearly as many of her classmates and she should have.

Re:This is going to work well

[SplashMyBandit]

"Tinfoil Curtain" - sublime!

Re:Ic0m

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you know?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Like we give a f*ck.

[Anonymous Coward]

--P2P, Tunnels.

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[jameshofo]

Because its a country that has taken the steps to categorize and censor the internet to a set standard, at face value the intent is pure. But what does that mean? It means they have the power and most notably the interest to "blacklist and force offline certain websites without a trial.". So yea I'd say that's news, even if it isn't "U.S. news".

great extortion opportunity

[RichMan]

Anyone think the Russian system is immune to manipulation for profit?

You want your web company to succeed, you pay the man or go offline.

Re:great extortion opportunity

[SplashMyBandit]

Well a commentator once put it something like this (in Putin's feudal system or personal patronage):
"There is not just corruption in the system, corruption *is* the system!"

Don't hand over our Internet to these turkeys, meaning, don't surrender the Net to the ITU/UN.

Well there goes another one down the drain.

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought Russia of all countries would have been a bit smarter than that. You know, taken a higher road to dealing with such content.

Nope. Just another moronic country trying to appeal to the crybabies who are too lazy to parent their own children.

Re:Well there goes another one down the drain.

[Nidi62]

I thought Russia of all countries would have been a bit smarter than that. You know, taken a higher road to dealing with such content.

Do you know anything about Russia's history, or of Putin's? This isn't going to be used for sites hosting child porn, or scams, or hackers. This law is about stifling dissent. Putin is trying to bring Russia back to where it was in the days of the Soviet Union.

Great News.....!

[davcorp]

I see absolutely no potential for abuse!

Re:Great News.....!

[FlopEJoe]

Website critical of Putin or shows fraud in the government... well that's bad for children to see. We must ban it.

London and New York

[Anonymous Coward]

In London they protect peadophile policemen.
In New York, the Mayor Bloomburg "pulled" his finger out of the dijk, and Mr. Silver bought Slashdot.
The Kommie Kops have more significant duties to perform, and are not going to start criminalizing kids for sharing digital files, as they do in London and New York...

It's for suicide prevention too

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, protesting against Putin is suicide, so qualified psychologists will keep you safe from any content that might cause you to put yourself in danger. It's for your own good.

Re:It's for suicide prevention too

[Jeng]

Russia has had a bad suicide problem, but it is getting better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Russia

In 2008, suicide claimed 38,406 lives in Russia.[22] With a rate of 27.1 suicides per 100,000 people, Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, although it has been steadily decreasing since it peaked at around 40 per 100,000 in the mid-late 90s,[23] including a 30% drop from 2001 to 2006. In 2007 about 22% of all suicides were committed by people aged 40â"49, and almost six times as many Russian males commit suicide than females.[24] Heavy alcohol use is a significant factor in the suicide rate, with an estimated half of all suicides a result of alcohol abuse. This is evident by the fact that Russia's suicide rate since the mid-90s has declined along-side per capita alcohol consumption, despite the economic crises since then; alcohol consumption is more of a factor than economic conditions

Let me guess -

[na1led]

first websites to go down are - Facebook, Myspace, and Twitter.

Re:Let me guess -

[21mhz]

Of course, everybody knows they are paedophile hangouts. OK, Myspace has a chance to get overlooked, since nobody cares about it anymore.

Facing recent waves of protest, some Russian officials have shared a shocking revelation: much of the "inciting" commentary was published on servers hosted in the U.S.! They are live relics, looking at our world and trying to reconnect it with their bygone era.

Re:Let me guess -

[Anonymous Coward]

Having a US hosting provider or the protections of the 1st amendment didn't protect the director of “Innocence of Muslims".

Re:Let me guess -

[21mhz]

Having a US hosting provider or the protections of the 1st amendment didn't protect the director of “Innocence of Muslims".

I'd say, publishing a wacky hateful movie did not give him a license to violate the terms of his parole.

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[Jeng]

Because we all hoped that Russia would stop being backwards, and here we have Russia taking backwards to a whole other level.

The Russian people had a chance at freedom, but they lost it.

Yet another piece in the domino falls

[GeekWithAKnife]

I for one shall watch with grim satisfaction as Vladimir Putin, the Supreme Leader engages in yet another "Because I say so" rule.

Looking forward to the return of the good old days when people were willing to risk their lives to escape the chilling embrace of mother Russia.

*plays old soviet army "hits"*

Men, you are serving Vladimir Putin. No other army in the world can make that statement, think about it...

Sawdust, Plank, Eye

[Anonymous Coward]

In Putin's Russia, websites watch children.

In Novo-Soviet Russia...

[toriver]

... you are all children of Tsar Vladimir.

COMING SOON...

[Anonymous Coward]

...to the UK!

Bigger than any of those three in Russia:

[MAXOMENOS]

LiveJournal.

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[TemperedAlchemist]

Ah yes, this is how it starts. It's for the children, we say. We put up cameras in the street. This is for the children. We allow unwarranted searches. This is for the children. We must stop all depraved content from poisoning our children's minds. And before we realize it, we are once again ensnared in tyranny.

How long before the state's power, unchecked, begins to run amok? How long before the safety of the children becomes the safety of the state? Not long, I'd wager. Enjoy your child's safety while it lasts. Because when it ends, it will not be the internet, child predators, and thieves that you will fear. No, dear parents and concerned citizens, it is from the government -- your government. You gave up freedom, now pay the price.

I implore you, dear people, while there is still time left. Remember, remember the fifth of November.

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[Anonymous Coward]

You're talking about a nation in which 42% of Russian's believe Obama would be better for the nation vs 4% Romney, 31% didn't care, and 22% declined to answer.

The resaults of this poll tells me a few things.
1. Russians are delusional.
2. Few russians actually "get it".
3. About a 3rd are too busy drinking or are ignorant
4. Less than 1/4th live in fear of the KGB.

I'd say they're pretty much fucked. But then again, we already fucked ourselves voting Obama for the first time around. So don't feel too bad Russia, America is pretty fucked in the head too.

Freedom? WTF is that? We just want more American Idol with Vodka. Now GO AWAY!!!

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[Anonymous Coward]

How come this is news to anyone?

Because an event can be news even though similar events have happened in the past. You know, kind of how like Hurricane Sandy is news even though Katrina happened before? But don't let facts get in your way of your flailing attempts to come off as a world-weary cynic.

Not much different from US of A

[Vicarius]

How is this different from FBI shutting child pornography websites, or taking over DNS records of websites that infringe copyrights? I am not saying that what Russians are doing is right, but lets not forget that we already have the same system and laws in place over here.

As for "save the children" argument that Russians used, I believe pretty much the same argument was used to give US law enforcement power to prosecute child pornography cases. It is hard to argue that government had some other intentions, but if it Russians...then of course they have to be different and have to have an ulterior motive.

Re:Not much different from US of A

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this different from FBI shutting child pornography websites, or taking over DNS records of websites that infringe copyrights?

There are warrants and court orders required for this sort of thing.

Not that it worked well regarding Megaupload, huh 'Murrika?

Re:Not much different from US of A

[SplashMyBandit]

FBI probably needs a judge's assent somewhere, yeah? That means a judge can always go "No" to the FBI, so the FBI do have to have a reason for site takedown that will pass the reasonableness test of a judge (assuming the latter is doing their job). That is why the Big Media takedown notices for copyright infringement that bypass this process are so insidious (and why Google is fairly heroic at resisting most of the requests, eg that stupid Mohammed video; despite many other providers caving in without resistance).

In Russia there is no such oversight and law enforcement are known to be eminently corrupt and apply selective enforcement of the law (if you are Putin's pal you can break any law and you will not be investigated; if you oppose Putin something will be found on you even if you are squeaky clean, something will be invented if need be).

So if you are trying to make the Russia look less bad by comparing it to the US, just don't they are incomparable. Similarly if you are trying to make the US look bad by comparing to Russia's censorship, then that also is not a valid comparison. The US can look bad on its own (de)merits - but it is still a far far cry from the regression happening right now in Russia.

Re:Not much different from US of A

[lhunath]

Most Russian ISPs will be implementing DPI (Deep Packet Inspection) to block the content. We're not talking DNS anymore here, we're talking ISPs inspecting and logging everything you send over the wire unencrypted. Be careful about what you type in Google now, the russian Register is watching.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/russia-surveillance/all/

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[alexmin]

Your mistakenly assume that russian people want freedom in the first place. 500 years of their history suggest otherwise.

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[SplashMyBandit]

Freedom is not their first priority for sure. However, no one wants to be a serf and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Look at the hundreds of thousands of people who were out in subzero temperatures until Putin's regime changed protest laws to raise absolutely repressive fines.

The Russian elite do not want freedom, and they control the media so that is what you hear. It is very clear the Russian people (particularly urbanites) do want personal and political freedom. We should support them and not repeat the repressive messages of the media-manipulating elites.

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[Jeng]

Just because a people have been subjugated that does not mean they want to be subjugated.

Also the length of subjugation doesn't determine if those subjugated want freedom or not.

If you were locked in prison would you want someone else saying that you don't want out because you have been there X number of years?

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[Anonymous Coward]

I implore you, dear people, while there is still time left. Remember, remember the fifth of November.

And just which of Tweedle-dum, Tweedle-dee would you have us vote for?

China likes censorship, no really.

[TiggertheMad]

I agree with you about the validity of such a survey, especially if it is being administered by a government stooge packing an AK-74 over his shoulder as he give it. BUT.....

Strangely enough, there might be some truth to such a result. I have spoken with Chinese nationals who say things like, 'Democracy and freedom is great, but it would never work over here.' I wonder if this is something in the character of Chinese people, or just a selfish, 'Of course censorship is good...for other people.' because they haven't been on the receiving end of censorship.

Of course, the few people I have encountered don't come close to being a large enough group to be statistically representative of anything.

Re:China likes censorship, no really.

[Jeng]

Now although there is are some poll numbers in this article, I'm linking this article for it's other content.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/01/us-russia-putin-idUSBRE8A01HA20121101

And yes, many Chinese believe that the censorship is good for them, or at least that is what they say, I though have never heard a Russian say the same.

Re:China likes censorship, no really.

[Capsaicin]

And yes, many Chinese believe that the censorship is good for them.

My guess is that not a few Americans would similarly object to child porn being openly displayed for sale in the supermarket. I'm not sure that there is a people where the majority does not believe that at least some level of censorship is good for them (even if they may not recognise it as such).

This would have been more meaningful

[Anonymous Coward]

"Think of the children" would have been more meaningful if Russia wasn't a source of child pornography.

Re:Another backward contry goes crazy over interne

[Max_W]

It takes time. And it works like a pendulum.

Do not forget that there was not Renaissance in Russia. Mentality and culture of large swaths of population is still medieval at best.

Just 2 - 3 decades ago it was worse that North Korea. Now it begins to resemble remotely something habitable.