My dad's 2008 Ford Mustang is AUX only, my 2011 has BT. I'm betting it was probably an option on my dad's 2008, but whether it was or not, he does not have it. I use an AUX cable when I'm visiting him and using his car. I'm betting it was an option for lots of cars in 2008, and is close to standard on most from 2013+
I would tend to agree with that summary...
So the question becomes, how many users will this impact? How many people actually stream music from their phones into their car via the 3.5mm jack? What percentage of those people don't have BT as an option? What percentage of them would otherwise rush right out and buy an iPhone 7, but won't because of this?
I think this is a VERY small group indeed. Yes, I'm sure these people exist, but is it a large enough group for Apple to design a product around? I'm sure Apple knows that better than any of us.
---
Side note: Move forward 5 years, when this is a complete non-issue because all new phones are missing the 3.5mm jack, and people have moved on in their car choices.
I don't know if this ever occurred to you or not, but people shouldn't have to leave their PCs on just to install updates.
You don't have to leave it on, they will turn themselves on to update so long as they have power.
Well, reasonably modern machines will do it, 10 year old machines less so.
Nor should they have to manually update them when there is an automated process, and SSDs are still not drop-in replacements for the use case of the average user.
If you need your computer at a specific point in time, then make sure it is up to date when you need it.
And SSDs are a requirement for any sensible use of a computer in 2016. Anyone not using one either doesn't know any better, doesn't care, or is really, really poor.
Hard drives are painful, if you have a "work" computer, put a SSD in it, it pays for itself very quickly.
Its a Surface Book, so the SSD comment isnt valid - all it has is an SSD, and Im still out half an hour on average.
A Surface Book takes 30 min for a weekly update?
Either something is wrong with it, or that machine sucks. My notebook takes 5 min or less to run them.
Let me rephrase that... my office of notebooks take 5 min or less, along with the desktops and everything else... the only machines that take 30 min are laptops with hard drives, and even then only for larger updates.
If I liked your videos, I would happily give you twelve bucks to feel good about myself for the year, but I will never ever use a service which signs me up for a recurring payment if I can avoid it. Does Patreon let people make one-time tips yet?
Yes, they do. You can give $1 one time, or $12 one time, or whatever you want.
I remember paying $400/mo for a car loan. I don't do that any more. It frees up a whole lot of cash to buy fripperies like phones. If one's choices involve saving many thousands of dollars on one non-essential new thing while blowing a few hundred dollars on one non essential thing, then one does not have spending priority problems.
A 15 year old car is more dangerous than a new one, or even a 5 year old one.
You're saving money, which is nice, but your phone won't kill you.
No, it has to, too many people didn't keep Windows up to date, this is the result.
Its frustrating as hell to be presenting to a client on my Surface and we have to wait for it to update.
Run Windows Update before you leave the office. I do. I never take my laptop anywhere new without making sure it is all up to date, just one of those things you have to do.
because we allowed morons to operate computers for 2 decades, now everything is force fed to us and locked down.
So what, you think people should have a licence to use a computer? What, like a car? That worked out well.:)
5 years is a good age for used cars. They still have most of their intrinsic value, have 10-15 more years of useful service, but cost a fraction of the price of a new car.
True, but how many people buy 5 year old cars and keep them until they are 10 years old, but buy a new iPhone every year?
That is the point everyone keeps missing.
This is not a problem outside of a few edge cases...
5 years for an automobile? I'd accuse you of being a shill, but if you were you would have recommended 3 years (and stated it as "36 months"). You're just a fool. A car should last at least a decade.
The irony is that I'm not the fool, you are... for not using your brain...
Yes, of course a car should last at least a decade, most last two decades...
But the average iPhone buyer is not the average car driver, nor is the average iPhone buyer who buys every new model of iPhone...
BT has been standard in many cars for 10 years now, from mid level trims on up. It has been standard in almost everything for the past 5 years...
And of course this only applies to the sub-set of people who bother to use BT in their car even if they have it. This is not the massive problem you think it is.
You're literally suggesting that someone should ditch a perfectly capable car because it's 14 years old?
If you have the money to buy a brand new iPhone, then yes, you should. If you don't, then your brain isn't working, because the older car is more likely to kill you in a crash, the phone won't help with that.
Seriously, if you're driving a 14 year old car and you think spending $650 on a phone is a good choice, your brain is not working right.
The number of times I have opened my laptop for a quick 5 minute task, only to be greeted by "we are installing a system update" and have the next half hour wasted
That shouldn't happen often, are you not leaving it plugged in over night once a week to let it update?
You might also consider manually running updates from time to time.
Also, the whole "half an hour thing", upgrade to a SSD, that turns into 5 minutes.
My car has BT, but doesn't support playing audio through it. In fact, only recently has BT been audio compatible AFAIK, because I've been looking at options to make that happen. So, I'd say anyone that bought ANY car prior to 2016 model years, for Android or iOS. Or after market radios since about 2013, which isn't an option for some cars.
My wife's 2008 Honda Odyssey had BT... Our 2012 Yukon had it, my current 2014 Ford Taurus has it...
The last vehicle I owned that didn't have it was her 2003 Ford Explorer, and before that my 2001 Chevy Tahoe.
Once she got BT, she never went back, she loved that Odyssey, we should have kept it.:)
---
Most vehicles of a mid-level trim or higher have had BT for 10 years. Almost all cars of all trims have had it for 5 years. It is a cheap feature to add and looks nice on the window sticker.
Actually, that's not true. My car has Bluetooth, but it is headset profile only (no A2DP)
What car is that? What year?
Both of my vehicles have BT and both work well with our iPhones, they pair with whichever phone they see first (mine or my wife's).
One is a 2014 Ford Taurus, the other is a 2015 Yukon XL.
Audio stack bricks itself: Every so often iOS's Bluetooth audio stack becomes completely bricked. When this happens, the audio is replaced by a loud buzzing noise, and I'm unable to get A2DP audio working again until I reboot the phone. This happens about every two weeks, give or take.
I'd complain to Apple about that, something is wrong with your phone.
My car is a 2003, but I'm likely to spend at least $650 when I upgrade my phone next year. Why? Because I don't have a car payment eating up my disposable income.
Then you have spending priority problems, a 2003 car is no longer up to modern safety standards and likely will start costing you money to drive.
This doesn't mean you have to buy a new one, but a nice 2013 off-lease car will be a FAR better place to put your money than a new iPhone.
From all points, safety, dependability, and environmentally.
Erm, no. Even luxury vehicles didn't offer Bluetooth standard ten years ago. Cadillac, for example, didn't offer it as a standard feature until 2012.
I'm willing to bet most 2010 Caddy's had it however... My wife's 2008 Honda Odyssey had it... The last time I owned a vehicle that didn't have it... her 2003 Ford Explorer and my 2001 Chevy Tahoe didn't have it....
Yea, didn't we fight a revolution to get rid of those things?
The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me. You might not like the Nazis, but trying to silence them just makes the situation worse.
Look at the KKK in the USA, they are a joke. They have their little rallies and parades, but most people just roll their eyes at them. But if you tried to ban them, they would grow massively in support overnight.
So let the Nazis spew their hate speech in the light where everyone can laugh at it.
You could probably find one or two examples, but even an entry level Chevy Spark LS base model comes with bluetooth and that car only costs $13,500 MSRP.
That has also been true for a number of years now, and anything beyond the very entry level has had BT for 10 years.
Further, anyone buying a $650 phone likely didn't buy a $13,500 car 5 years ago that didn't have BT and is still driving it. If so, they need to rethink their purchase decisions.
Except they can stop it. If it gets to the point that it's seriously affecting their bottom line, they can encrypt the stream and require a plugin to view it (or whatever Netflix does).
That is just a good way to drive off users...
Netflix is different, being a service you pay for... YouTube has become successful being what it is, and open endless videos is part of that... (side note, I don't sub to Netflix, Amazon Prime gives me all the video I could want)
I don't download YouTube videos myself, but I do block the ads (yes, as a content creator that makes money off ads, I still block them, they suck!, but hey, I'll take the money!).
And no, I don't get all whiny when other people block the ads watching our videos, that is just par for the course. We ask people if they are able to support us to donate $1 a month via Patron if they block ads and like our videos.
More or less, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of them dropping the headphone jack, since there are clear advantages to it, but my misgivings feel very similar to the ones I had when floppies went away or as we've started to see optical media disappear.
The irony is that the loss of the floppy was a "big deal" at the time, because so many things still required a floppy drive.
When it went away on the iMac, I was dumbfounded at first, because even updating the BIOS on most computers at the time simply could not be done without a floppy drive, they were hard coded to require it.
By comparison, the loss of optical media happened with a wimper... I don't even know when it happened, it just did...
One day I was using DVD drives to install Windows, then the next I was using USB thumb drives. I actually still have a DVD drive in my main desktop, it has been there for years, but I haven't used it in so long, I have no idea if it even works anymore.
None of the computers I've built in the past 3 years have had an optical drive, nor have I used one in... well, now that I think about it, I can't remember when I did.
---
Speaking of which, hard drives can't die fast enough for my taste, nor can SATA... come on NVMe and M.2, save us!:)
Slashdot Mirror
A 2003 car is still perfectly safe on the road.
Are you sure?
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-...
Your priorities are all screwed up. I have a 2000 Toyota Sienna and a 2004 Chevy Suburban and they both are in great condition.
Those vehicles are missing a lot of safety features...
That 2004 Suburban won't do very well in a wreck with a modern truck, I know, I used to own one...
A new shiny phone won't protect you, but a new Suburban would.
My 2001 GTI was not missing any safety features compared to today.
You might think that, but the numbers don't lie:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-...
Cars are in fact safer today than they were in 2001.
iPhones are pretty ubiquitous amongst my friends, and I am one of 2 people I know with a car that does bluetooth.
Fair enough...
Then let me rephrase my question:
How many of your friends are willing to spend $650 on a new iPhone, but NOT willing to spend $15 on a BT to 3.5mm adapter?
http://amzn.to/1P233z0 - $15
Not the 2014. It was an option.
Fair enough, the new ones being built now have it standard...
In 5 years, will anyone care?
---
Let me put this another way, if you have an older car, but want to spend $650 on a new iPhone, are you not willing to spend $15 on a BT adapter?
http://amzn.to/1P22AN8 - $15
My dad's 2008 Ford Mustang is AUX only, my 2011 has BT.
I'm betting it was probably an option on my dad's 2008, but whether it was or not, he does not have it. I use an AUX cable when I'm visiting him and using his car.
I'm betting it was an option for lots of cars in 2008, and is close to standard on most from 2013+
I would tend to agree with that summary...
So the question becomes, how many users will this impact? How many people actually stream music from their phones into their car via the 3.5mm jack? What percentage of those people don't have BT as an option? What percentage of them would otherwise rush right out and buy an iPhone 7, but won't because of this?
I think this is a VERY small group indeed. Yes, I'm sure these people exist, but is it a large enough group for Apple to design a product around? I'm sure Apple knows that better than any of us.
---
Side note: Move forward 5 years, when this is a complete non-issue because all new phones are missing the 3.5mm jack, and people have moved on in their car choices.
I don't know if this ever occurred to you or not, but people shouldn't have to leave their PCs on just to install updates.
You don't have to leave it on, they will turn themselves on to update so long as they have power.
Well, reasonably modern machines will do it, 10 year old machines less so.
Nor should they have to manually update them when there is an automated process, and SSDs are still not drop-in replacements for the use case of the average user.
If you need your computer at a specific point in time, then make sure it is up to date when you need it.
And SSDs are a requirement for any sensible use of a computer in 2016. Anyone not using one either doesn't know any better, doesn't care, or is really, really poor.
Hard drives are painful, if you have a "work" computer, put a SSD in it, it pays for itself very quickly.
Its a Surface Book, so the SSD comment isnt valid - all it has is an SSD, and Im still out half an hour on average.
A Surface Book takes 30 min for a weekly update?
Either something is wrong with it, or that machine sucks. My notebook takes 5 min or less to run them.
Let me rephrase that... my office of notebooks take 5 min or less, along with the desktops and everything else... the only machines that take 30 min are laptops with hard drives, and even then only for larger updates.
If I liked your videos, I would happily give you twelve bucks to feel good about myself for the year, but I will never ever use a service which signs me up for a recurring payment if I can avoid it. Does Patreon let people make one-time tips yet?
Yes, they do. You can give $1 one time, or $12 one time, or whatever you want.
Your wife was lucky, since the 2008 was the first model year to introduce bluetooth, but then only on the Touring model.
We bought that one because of the refresh that was done that year, a number of nice changes were made.
And yes, of course it was a Touring, why buy anything else? :)
Side note: We owned Blackberry Curves at the time, so the only thing she would have used it for would be phone calls.
---
Let me put this another way...
How many people are willing to buy a $650 iPhone, but aren't willing to buy a $15 BT adapter?
http://amzn.to/1P22AN8
Plug that into your car, boom, BT!
I remember paying $400/mo for a car loan. I don't do that any more. It frees up a whole lot of cash to buy fripperies like phones. If one's choices involve saving many thousands of dollars on one non-essential new thing while blowing a few hundred dollars on one non essential thing, then one does not have spending priority problems.
A 15 year old car is more dangerous than a new one, or even a 5 year old one.
You're saving money, which is nice, but your phone won't kill you.
It should happen NEVER.
No, it has to, too many people didn't keep Windows up to date, this is the result.
Its frustrating as hell to be presenting to a client on my Surface and we have to wait for it to update.
Run Windows Update before you leave the office. I do. I never take my laptop anywhere new without making sure it is all up to date, just one of those things you have to do.
because we allowed morons to operate computers for 2 decades, now everything is force fed to us and locked down.
So what, you think people should have a licence to use a computer? What, like a car? That worked out well. :)
5 years is a good age for used cars. They still have most of their intrinsic value, have 10-15 more years of useful service, but cost a fraction of the price of a new car.
True, but how many people buy 5 year old cars and keep them until they are 10 years old, but buy a new iPhone every year?
That is the point everyone keeps missing.
This is not a problem outside of a few edge cases...
5 years for an automobile? I'd accuse you of being a shill, but if you were you would have recommended 3 years (and stated it as "36 months"). You're just a fool. A car should last at least a decade.
The irony is that I'm not the fool, you are... for not using your brain...
Yes, of course a car should last at least a decade, most last two decades...
But the average iPhone buyer is not the average car driver, nor is the average iPhone buyer who buys every new model of iPhone...
BT has been standard in many cars for 10 years now, from mid level trims on up. It has been standard in almost everything for the past 5 years...
And of course this only applies to the sub-set of people who bother to use BT in their car even if they have it. This is not the massive problem you think it is.
Which you'd know, if you used your brain.
Safety standards haven't changed much. A newer vehicle isn't necessarily safer
That sounds nice, but the facts are not on your side.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-...
You're literally suggesting that someone should ditch a perfectly capable car because it's 14 years old?
If you have the money to buy a brand new iPhone, then yes, you should. If you don't, then your brain isn't working, because the older car is more likely to kill you in a crash, the phone won't help with that.
Seriously, if you're driving a 14 year old car and you think spending $650 on a phone is a good choice, your brain is not working right.
The number of times I have opened my laptop for a quick 5 minute task, only to be greeted by "we are installing a system update" and have the next half hour wasted
That shouldn't happen often, are you not leaving it plugged in over night once a week to let it update?
You might also consider manually running updates from time to time.
Also, the whole "half an hour thing", upgrade to a SSD, that turns into 5 minutes.
BT has been standard on most cars for 10 years, except perhaps the very base models, but even those have been pretty standard for 5 years.
The average age of cars doesn't matter, what matters is the average age of cars owned by iPhone users who upgrade to the newest phone often.
I suspect this is a fairly small problem segment that gets smaller every year.
Apple isn't stupid, I'm sure they have studied this issue.
My car has BT, but doesn't support playing audio through it. In fact, only recently has BT been audio compatible AFAIK, because I've been looking at options to make that happen. So, I'd say anyone that bought ANY car prior to 2016 model years, for Android or iOS. Or after market radios since about 2013, which isn't an option for some cars.
My wife's 2008 Honda Odyssey had BT... Our 2012 Yukon had it, my current 2014 Ford Taurus has it...
The last vehicle I owned that didn't have it was her 2003 Ford Explorer, and before that my 2001 Chevy Tahoe.
Once she got BT, she never went back, she loved that Odyssey, we should have kept it. :)
---
Most vehicles of a mid-level trim or higher have had BT for 10 years. Almost all cars of all trims have had it for 5 years. It is a cheap feature to add and looks nice on the window sticker.
Even the Chevy Spark LS, for $13,500, has BT...
Actually, that's not true. My car has Bluetooth, but it is headset profile only (no A2DP)
What car is that? What year?
Both of my vehicles have BT and both work well with our iPhones, they pair with whichever phone they see first (mine or my wife's).
One is a 2014 Ford Taurus, the other is a 2015 Yukon XL.
Audio stack bricks itself: Every so often iOS's Bluetooth audio stack becomes completely bricked. When this happens, the audio is replaced by a loud buzzing noise, and I'm unable to get A2DP audio working again until I reboot the phone. This happens about every two weeks, give or take.
I'd complain to Apple about that, something is wrong with your phone.
My car is a 2003, but I'm likely to spend at least $650 when I upgrade my phone next year. Why? Because I don't have a car payment eating up my disposable income.
Then you have spending priority problems, a 2003 car is no longer up to modern safety standards and likely will start costing you money to drive.
This doesn't mean you have to buy a new one, but a nice 2013 off-lease car will be a FAR better place to put your money than a new iPhone.
From all points, safety, dependability, and environmentally.
Erm, no. Even luxury vehicles didn't offer Bluetooth standard ten years ago. Cadillac, for example, didn't offer it as a standard feature until 2012.
I'm willing to bet most 2010 Caddy's had it however... My wife's 2008 Honda Odyssey had it... The last time I owned a vehicle that didn't have it... her 2003 Ford Explorer and my 2001 Chevy Tahoe didn't have it....
European values and laws are respected
Yea, didn't we fight a revolution to get rid of those things?
The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me. You might not like the Nazis, but trying to silence them just makes the situation worse.
Look at the KKK in the USA, they are a joke. They have their little rallies and parades, but most people just roll their eyes at them. But if you tried to ban them, they would grow massively in support overnight.
So let the Nazis spew their hate speech in the light where everyone can laugh at it.
No need to replace a car every 2 years, but a 98 is way old...
You're missing quite a few safety features that are newer than that...
Every 5 years is a good target, and BT has been standard in most cars for 10 years...
I wouldn't call them "plenty".
You could probably find one or two examples, but even an entry level Chevy Spark LS base model comes with bluetooth and that car only costs $13,500 MSRP.
That has also been true for a number of years now, and anything beyond the very entry level has had BT for 10 years.
Further, anyone buying a $650 phone likely didn't buy a $13,500 car 5 years ago that didn't have BT and is still driving it. If so, they need to rethink their purchase decisions.
Except they can stop it. If it gets to the point that it's seriously affecting their bottom line, they can encrypt the stream and require a plugin to view it (or whatever Netflix does).
That is just a good way to drive off users...
Netflix is different, being a service you pay for... YouTube has become successful being what it is, and open endless videos is part of that... (side note, I don't sub to Netflix, Amazon Prime gives me all the video I could want)
I don't download YouTube videos myself, but I do block the ads (yes, as a content creator that makes money off ads, I still block them, they suck!, but hey, I'll take the money!).
And no, I don't get all whiny when other people block the ads watching our videos, that is just par for the course. We ask people if they are able to support us to donate $1 a month via Patron if they block ads and like our videos.
More or less, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of them dropping the headphone jack, since there are clear advantages to it, but my misgivings feel very similar to the ones I had when floppies went away or as we've started to see optical media disappear.
The irony is that the loss of the floppy was a "big deal" at the time, because so many things still required a floppy drive.
When it went away on the iMac, I was dumbfounded at first, because even updating the BIOS on most computers at the time simply could not be done without a floppy drive, they were hard coded to require it.
By comparison, the loss of optical media happened with a wimper... I don't even know when it happened, it just did...
One day I was using DVD drives to install Windows, then the next I was using USB thumb drives. I actually still have a DVD drive in my main desktop, it has been there for years, but I haven't used it in so long, I have no idea if it even works anymore.
None of the computers I've built in the past 3 years have had an optical drive, nor have I used one in... well, now that I think about it, I can't remember when I did.
---
Speaking of which, hard drives can't die fast enough for my taste, nor can SATA... come on NVMe and M.2, save us! :)