Ah, I guess I am special. Now, can we go back to the subject? Again, normally any discussion of Israel and Palestina will burst out into a flame-war. And now we have a fairly decent discussion going on. Where everyone can speak out his own opinion, without getting flamed.... We should not spoil that with spelling-rules. I am sure that the people participating in the discussion can make sense of what I say, despite the numerous errors in my English.
Sorry buddy my english sucks. If you can't understand what I'm saying stay out of the conversation. No need to make this all personal. It's a rare occurrence that there is a discussion about this conflict without getting personal and hateful and I sure as hell don't need some spelling-nazi to ruin it. And if you do want to talk about spelling, do it in Dutch, that way I can understand you far better. How is your Dutch btw? Or your German? Or your French for that matter.
After Jeruzalem was given away...
Hell if the Dutch tomorrow come back for New York and the UN says: yeps thats Dutch indeed let's see how you feel? That's the whole point. We, allies, messed up. Israel should never had been given the way it was given. Nobody asked the arabs that lived there at least as long as the jews how they felt about it. That's why they got pissed of in the first place. It's way more subtle than: one day arabs stood up and decided to take jeruzalem.
It's only 2% that are left... the rest has been pestered away (my english does indeed suck btw).
Howcome Israel is the only country with apartheid? Why are there roads (i've been there and seen it with my own eyes) for jews only? I got lucky that my girlfriend at that time was jewish, so I could drive on those roads and skip the checkpoints where the people are being held for even days... Nah, Israel is making stupid mistakes that will only cause more bloodshed. But we will probably not gonna agree.
You do realize to for the palestina people to be kicked out of Jeruzalem was the start of the conflict? In this conflict there is only one party really guilty. The Allies after the war who decided it would be a good plan to take away the country where jews and moslims had been living for many years in peace and make it jew-only. The real problem lies however in current Israelic politics. They always want more. 30 years ago, I would have agreed, the muslims were the terrorists. But these days.... neh, death toll speaks for itself. No civilized country would ever demolish houses, schools, would prohibit cement or medicine to another state. Except for Israel. Replace Israel for Iran and Palestina for Kuwait and suddenly it's a totally different story.
Ah I'm sure nazi-germany would agree with you. They didn't gratify anything so therefore they can't have committed warcrimes?
The use of clustermunition and fosfor are indeed warcrimes. Retaliation on schools are also warcrimes. Not surprised you don't have the balls to use your account btw.
Think about why they would blow up a bus. If Israel would let them be and have the apartheid-regime I am sure the same would have been. But instead Israel chose to build a wall on palastina ground, taking away the last little pieces of ground that can grow olives.
Such a comment can easily backfire with all the video-evidence where Israelic soldiers used palestina kids as human shields. Even this week 2 Israelic soldiers where convicted guilty of letting a palestina kid open bags where they wehre assuming that bombs would be in them! They got no sentence however..........
You are. I haven't said btw no casualties. I am aware of the the casualties about 10-15 years ago.
You can find them on the amnesty site under yearly country reports. They have both reports on palestina convicting Hamas for their crimes and under Israel. The figures will speak for them self. I am sure you can find the dossier yourself on their website. Since my copies are in Dutch.
The red cross site I visit in English. Just type in Israel in the searchbox. You will get the crimes for both sides in this conflict.
But, let me correct myself, I should not have said 20 years because I am aware that until 2000 there were casualties on Israel side, and lots of them, but when you thru the yearly reports from Amnesty it becomes obvious that deathtole on Israel site has always been about 1 for every 100/200 in palestina. There is a reason Israel won't allow free press into Gaza. And this is it. We all felt for a lot of lies the last 2, 3 decades. With the upcoming of internet we finally get some facts.
Having said that: no child should ever die over land. And I don't give a damn if that child is jewish or muslim. But in this conflict I have to take davids side. Israel has become what it once hated.
Yes, that would be a valid point, but still the damages aren't damages... This is pure profit for Oracle. And a confession in the USA isn't worth anything in the rest of the world. We all seen the figures about how many people would rather plead guilty for a crime they didn't do in order to avoid the life-destroying sentences. So a confession just doesn't hold any true value. But even when really guilty (let's assume they are guilty of simplicity) this is just pure profit. And I bet a couple of those non-knowing jury members found it a nice opportunity to fuck something un-american.
ok, please keep in mind, I depsise Hamas way of dealing with repression. But, when was the last time they blew up a bus? It's measured in years... When was the last time Israel used clustermunition and fosfor? Both big warcrimes... It's measured in months. Maybe even days.
Skip this part to the summary if you wish:
I think it is only a matter of time. Measured in months, maybe years but certainly not decades. Our government has always been very friendly to the USA with reasons unknown to the general public. One might suspect threats with economical disadvantages for our trade-position.
I think ACTA says it all. As it is now, it is perfectly legal for us to download movies and songs for our own use. We even pay a fee on every blanc cdrom/dvd for it. Even when I personally only put my own work on those blanc media. We have more than 15 different organisations that say they collect fees for copyright. Even going as far as to send bills to churchchoirs for work that has been in the public domain for many centuries. So we do see an unwanted push for the US-system funded mostly by the music-maffia. Just as with the berne conference we didn't had anything to say in it. However our current president promised us that ACTA won't lead to 3 times is out. I guess we all know that we can keep that sort of people to their words......
In essence they want to make everybody a criminal.
Summary: we are gonna get fucked.
Btw, read the first sentence of where those numbers come from;)
I trust the red cross and amnesty a bit more. I think it's pretty much proven that Israel and it's propaganda machine can't be trusted.
Ah a well informed person. Do you know the death-rates between the parties in the last 20 years?
Every year it is something like: Palestina: 700+ more than 200+ children, more than 200+ woman. Israel: 0-15. Always soldiers.
But good to know you are informed!
Yeah I used some big words, have to give you that. It's just a lot of frustration whenever I see these ridiculous (at least to me) claims. Now it's a big company tomorrow it's another single mom who downloaded 10 songs. The part that is most frustrating for someone coming from a country with a (again in my opinion) better/more fair justice-system is that the USA is forcing their system to the whole world with acta. And in the end, we all suffer so 0.0001% of the richest people in the world can become even richer. I am sure there are enough flaws in the Dutch legal system also, but at least it makes some sense when they say: damage = damage and is not punishment.
No, the copyright laws in the USA are pretty idiotic. Besides, with the large-scale espionage the USA has on it's name I don't think anyone should bother with that country anymore. It's bankrupt on moral, intellectual and financial level. Despite of the many good people that are born and raised there. But I guess that is bashing also huh? I know, criticism is always a commie hating the whole of the USA. No point in discussing.
It's not about the conviction. It's about the insane amount of damages for copyright infringement. Has nothing to do with USA-bashing. It's called criticism of a backwards justice system. Sorry if that's to much to handle for you.
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Ah, I guess I am special. Now, can we go back to the subject? Again, normally any discussion of Israel and Palestina will burst out into a flame-war. And now we have a fairly decent discussion going on. Where everyone can speak out his own opinion, without getting flamed.... We should not spoil that with spelling-rules. I am sure that the people participating in the discussion can make sense of what I say, despite the numerous errors in my English.
Ok, thanks, I wasn't aware of that, but I will look into it. Having said that, I have no reason to doubt this so I am sure you are right about this.
Sorry buddy my english sucks. If you can't understand what I'm saying stay out of the conversation. No need to make this all personal. It's a rare occurrence that there is a discussion about this conflict without getting personal and hateful and I sure as hell don't need some spelling-nazi to ruin it. And if you do want to talk about spelling, do it in Dutch, that way I can understand you far better. How is your Dutch btw? Or your German? Or your French for that matter.
After Jeruzalem was given away... Hell if the Dutch tomorrow come back for New York and the UN says: yeps thats Dutch indeed let's see how you feel? That's the whole point. We, allies, messed up. Israel should never had been given the way it was given. Nobody asked the arabs that lived there at least as long as the jews how they felt about it. That's why they got pissed of in the first place. It's way more subtle than: one day arabs stood up and decided to take jeruzalem.
It's only 2% that are left... the rest has been pestered away (my english does indeed suck btw). Howcome Israel is the only country with apartheid? Why are there roads (i've been there and seen it with my own eyes) for jews only? I got lucky that my girlfriend at that time was jewish, so I could drive on those roads and skip the checkpoints where the people are being held for even days... Nah, Israel is making stupid mistakes that will only cause more bloodshed. But we will probably not gonna agree.
Ok, if you can't look up facts and feel the need to take it to a personal level, then the both of us are done talking.
I have yet to see prove of that. But pictures of kids handcuffed to Israelic militairy vehicles are plentyfull. So that's really a no-go.
You do realize to for the palestina people to be kicked out of Jeruzalem was the start of the conflict? In this conflict there is only one party really guilty. The Allies after the war who decided it would be a good plan to take away the country where jews and moslims had been living for many years in peace and make it jew-only. The real problem lies however in current Israelic politics. They always want more. 30 years ago, I would have agreed, the muslims were the terrorists. But these days.... neh, death toll speaks for itself. No civilized country would ever demolish houses, schools, would prohibit cement or medicine to another state. Except for Israel. Replace Israel for Iran and Palestina for Kuwait and suddenly it's a totally different story.
Ah I'm sure nazi-germany would agree with you. They didn't gratify anything so therefore they can't have committed warcrimes? The use of clustermunition and fosfor are indeed warcrimes. Retaliation on schools are also warcrimes. Not surprised you don't have the balls to use your account btw.
Think about why they would blow up a bus. If Israel would let them be and have the apartheid-regime I am sure the same would have been. But instead Israel chose to build a wall on palastina ground, taking away the last little pieces of ground that can grow olives.
Such a comment can easily backfire with all the video-evidence where Israelic soldiers used palestina kids as human shields. Even this week 2 Israelic soldiers where convicted guilty of letting a palestina kid open bags where they wehre assuming that bombs would be in them! They got no sentence however..........
You are. I haven't said btw no casualties. I am aware of the the casualties about 10-15 years ago. You can find them on the amnesty site under yearly country reports. They have both reports on palestina convicting Hamas for their crimes and under Israel. The figures will speak for them self. I am sure you can find the dossier yourself on their website. Since my copies are in Dutch. The red cross site I visit in English. Just type in Israel in the searchbox. You will get the crimes for both sides in this conflict. But, let me correct myself, I should not have said 20 years because I am aware that until 2000 there were casualties on Israel side, and lots of them, but when you thru the yearly reports from Amnesty it becomes obvious that deathtole on Israel site has always been about 1 for every 100/200 in palestina. There is a reason Israel won't allow free press into Gaza. And this is it. We all felt for a lot of lies the last 2, 3 decades. With the upcoming of internet we finally get some facts. Having said that: no child should ever die over land. And I don't give a damn if that child is jewish or muslim. But in this conflict I have to take davids side. Israel has become what it once hated.
Yes, that would be a valid point, but still the damages aren't damages... This is pure profit for Oracle. And a confession in the USA isn't worth anything in the rest of the world. We all seen the figures about how many people would rather plead guilty for a crime they didn't do in order to avoid the life-destroying sentences. So a confession just doesn't hold any true value. But even when really guilty (let's assume they are guilty of simplicity) this is just pure profit. And I bet a couple of those non-knowing jury members found it a nice opportunity to fuck something un-american.
You got a good point there.
Sjee, good for you to know how I think! Idiot. Standing up against warcrimes does not make me Hitler. Fucking moron.
ok, please keep in mind, I depsise Hamas way of dealing with repression. But, when was the last time they blew up a bus? It's measured in years... When was the last time Israel used clustermunition and fosfor? Both big warcrimes... It's measured in months. Maybe even days.
Skip this part to the summary if you wish: I think it is only a matter of time. Measured in months, maybe years but certainly not decades. Our government has always been very friendly to the USA with reasons unknown to the general public. One might suspect threats with economical disadvantages for our trade-position. I think ACTA says it all. As it is now, it is perfectly legal for us to download movies and songs for our own use. We even pay a fee on every blanc cdrom/dvd for it. Even when I personally only put my own work on those blanc media. We have more than 15 different organisations that say they collect fees for copyright. Even going as far as to send bills to churchchoirs for work that has been in the public domain for many centuries. So we do see an unwanted push for the US-system funded mostly by the music-maffia. Just as with the berne conference we didn't had anything to say in it. However our current president promised us that ACTA won't lead to 3 times is out. I guess we all know that we can keep that sort of people to their words...... In essence they want to make everybody a criminal. Summary: we are gonna get fucked.
Btw, read the first sentence of where those numbers come from ;)
I trust the red cross and amnesty a bit more. I think it's pretty much proven that Israel and it's propaganda machine can't be trusted.
Apparently. Check amnesty and the red cross. You will get more accurate numbers that way.
Ah a well informed person. Do you know the death-rates between the parties in the last 20 years? Every year it is something like: Palestina: 700+ more than 200+ children, more than 200+ woman. Israel: 0-15. Always soldiers. But good to know you are informed!
I wonder how they think about that statement in Palestina and Gaza.
Yeah I used some big words, have to give you that. It's just a lot of frustration whenever I see these ridiculous (at least to me) claims. Now it's a big company tomorrow it's another single mom who downloaded 10 songs. The part that is most frustrating for someone coming from a country with a (again in my opinion) better/more fair justice-system is that the USA is forcing their system to the whole world with acta. And in the end, we all suffer so 0.0001% of the richest people in the world can become even richer. I am sure there are enough flaws in the Dutch legal system also, but at least it makes some sense when they say: damage = damage and is not punishment.
No, the copyright laws in the USA are pretty idiotic. Besides, with the large-scale espionage the USA has on it's name I don't think anyone should bother with that country anymore. It's bankrupt on moral, intellectual and financial level. Despite of the many good people that are born and raised there. But I guess that is bashing also huh? I know, criticism is always a commie hating the whole of the USA. No point in discussing.
And rightfully so. A monopoly is a bad thing. Not comparable with so called copyright infringement.
It's not about the conviction. It's about the insane amount of damages for copyright infringement. Has nothing to do with USA-bashing. It's called criticism of a backwards justice system. Sorry if that's to much to handle for you.