it's great to see that KDE have been focusing on functionality and stability as their highest priority, while still managing to not compromise novice-user-friendliness. how refreshing. granted, i still don't think that KDE is, on the whole, as 'pretty' as what gnome can be made to be, but KDE is IMHO far more functional per unit application, and doesn't stream gtk-criticals when apps are started from the command-line. i appreciate a totally stable and functional UI far more than the impression value of pixmapped everything.
it still strikes me that the KDE guys/gals are striving for holistic GUI usability at all levels, while GNOME is (intentionally or not) targeted to a far more tech-savvy, enthusiast crowd. now if they were just codebase-level interoperable......
much as i hate reflexive 'me 2'-type posts, i just want to applaud your sensible and mature attitude to the whole deal. open source is a business, and linux is its flagship product.
this whole teenage preoccupation with anti-popularity is just pathetic -- "geez, i have to stop liking nirvana because they're like getting too popular...they were so much better when they were playing garages...". grow up.
just also want to say thanks to the SO developers who made the whole thing happen in the first place -- thanks. keep up your great work... dirty
even so, KDE and GNOME interoperability at levels deeper than a drag'n'drop standard is something that i'm sure most desktop linux users have been wishing for.
can a developer of either project tell me if the effort involved in ensuring gnome/kde interoperability at the component level is worth the efficiency gain of being able to leverage the existing components of both projects?
there is nothing worse than writing a chunk of code only to find that someone somewhere has already churned out exactly what you were already looking for.....;-)
in any case, kudos to all kde/gnome developers.... you are doing an amazing job....
As a Computer Scientist and professional system admin who uses debian at home, I hope i'm not responding to flamebait.
the defendent is entering a plea of flamebait in the second degree, your honour - flaming, with sarcasm, but without premeditation.
i don't really have anyhing against debian -- as long as people aren't trying to ram this 'free-er and pure-er than thou'-type crap down my throat...which unfortunately seems to infect some debianites i have known and read.
you make the point (quite rightly) that RH and mandrake live on the bleeding edge as far as releasing the latest and greatest in their distros. i've been using mandrake(+ RH) now as an enthusiast and working programmer for a bit over 2 years now and have had no grief at all with mandrake. i consider it an advantage that mandrake provides the latest software - 9 times out of ten i want the later versions of the 2.2 kernel, KDE/gnome/wmaker, apache, mysql, perl, jikes etc... i guess i like hacking around the bleeding edge, but hey, i'm a programmer, not a sysadmin, and mandrake suits my style just fine... and if anyone tries to tell me i'm a linux weenie cause i like it that mandrake saves me some time by pre-configuring some stuff that i can tune later by hand then they can go finger @themselves...
In my limited experence with KDE I have found it good, but there is no compelling reason to use it over gnome.
i mostly agree... gnome has truly improved since its initial (pre-)release. i've used both K and G probably close to equally with 4 different windows managers and it's clearly been my experience that what KDE lacks in terms of visually-configurable widgets, it makes up for by not being as buggy as gnome, and by also providing a more complete desktop environment.
my australian $0.02... that's probably US$0.03 to you...;-)
how can this be marked as flamebait? it is the most accurate portrayal of the situation yet.
it is hypocritical that debian should purport to be a free ( ie: =~/free/) distribution if they do not distribute material which does not support their point of view (or personal bias, in the case of KDE/Qt...).
it should be taken as granted that people have sufficiently developed brains to decipher what is meant by the 'non-free' CD. debian is showing itself to be more like a religion in its ideals than a group of dedicated computer enthusiasts.
to slashdotters: for freedom's sake, please show some balanced moderation which supports both points of view...
for one thing, debian is NOT better. apt may be cool, but there's no reason why in this day and age why a distro should be months-years behind on 'current' versions and also take a week to fully install and get working... we have a stllman-esque-wannabe 'veteran' sysadmin who says debain is better and has never even used any other distro and it still takes him about a week per system before everything works just right. i can have any box up with mandrake with all services configured in an hour or less and i can actually use this year's hardware as well without having to turn to a self-confessed 'unstable' release.
it is complete folly not to include KDE with debian -- there ARE NO non-free license issues with KDE -- this is FUD tactics a la microsoft. troll tech could GPL Qt and i'm sure the debian group would continue to dismiss it. 'fess up debian people....you just don't like it because it's not gnome.
and besides, anyone who honestly feels that gnome is better spends most of their time choosing gtk themes and arranging panels.
stability first, then pixmaps please....
1980's paradigm: If it's worth implementing once, it's worth implementing twice. 1990's paradigm: Ship the prototype! 2000's paradigm: Ship the idea! --Larry Rosler
but also: gnome paradigm: ship the pixmaps and graphic art! don't worry about all those GtkCritical's and anomolous behaviour! kde paradigm: ok guys, everything works as we've documented, let's ship...
Re:Who here is using KDevelop at work for producti
on
KDevelop 1.2 is out
·
· Score: 1
so the hell what if it looks like microsoft's software??? WHY DOES THAT MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY NOT GOOD??? this constant obsession-bitching-bickering about so-and-so's software, my toolkit's better than yours (cause i can pixmap my scrollbar...) and my FREE OPEN SOURCE LICENSE is NOT GOOD ENOUGH because a COMPANY made it... is just depressing.
linux is about FREEDOM, the very same principle that the free-er-than-thou crowd believe they are touting. you are SO HARDCORE to use all those 'standard UNIX things'...congratulations. this 'i write emacs extensions in assembly'-attitude is just pathetic. i LIKE KDE. i LIKE gnome. do you want to tell me these projects suck because they have ripped stuff off microsoft???
UNIX could learn a few things from microsoft about interfaces besides. no honest person can tell me that microsoft has not created a single good product or highly-intuitive GUI. i deny anyone to tell me that office does not kick arse. when is UNIX going to realise that 'team effort' does not equate to 'not microsoft'?
to those who write the software we use, i thank you. you are doing an AMAZING job and the whole world is watching us.
a good artist borrows; a great artist steals. don't kid yourself that microsoft does not have some things that are worth stealing. where do you think they got it from?
Slashdot Mirror
it still strikes me that the KDE guys/gals are striving for holistic GUI usability at all levels, while GNOME is (intentionally or not) targeted to a far more tech-savvy, enthusiast crowd. now if they were just codebase-level interoperable......
cheers to both GNOME/KDE camps in any case...
this whole teenage preoccupation with anti-popularity is just pathetic -- "geez, i have to stop liking nirvana because they're like getting too popular...they were so much better when they were playing garages...". grow up.
just also want to say thanks to the SO developers who made the whole thing happen in the first place -- thanks. keep up your great work... dirty
reliability? i thought they had like a REALLY slow download link that kept them 12 months behind the eight-ball...
can a developer of either project tell me if the effort involved in ensuring gnome/kde interoperability at the component level is worth the efficiency gain of being able to leverage the existing components of both projects?
there is nothing worse than writing a chunk of code only to find that someone somewhere has already churned out exactly what you were already looking for..... ;-)
in any case, kudos to all kde/gnome developers.... you are doing an amazing job....
d_i_r_t_y
the defendent is entering a plea of flamebait in the second degree, your honour - flaming, with sarcasm, but without premeditation.
i don't really have anyhing against debian -- as long as people aren't trying to ram this 'free-er and pure-er than thou'-type crap down my throat...which unfortunately seems to infect some debianites i have known and read.
you make the point (quite rightly) that RH and mandrake live on the bleeding edge as far as releasing the latest and greatest in their distros. i've been using mandrake(+ RH) now as an enthusiast and working programmer for a bit over 2 years now and have had no grief at all with mandrake. i consider it an advantage that mandrake provides the latest software - 9 times out of ten i want the later versions of the 2.2 kernel, KDE/gnome/wmaker, apache, mysql, perl, jikes etc... i guess i like hacking around the bleeding edge, but hey, i'm a programmer, not a sysadmin, and mandrake suits my style just fine... and if anyone tries to tell me i'm a linux weenie cause i like it that mandrake saves me some time by pre-configuring some stuff that i can tune later by hand then they can go finger @themselves...
In my limited experence with KDE I have found it good, but there is no compelling reason to use it over gnome.
i mostly agree... gnome has truly improved since its initial (pre-)release. i've used both K and G probably close to equally with 4 different windows managers and it's clearly been my experience that what KDE lacks in terms of visually-configurable widgets, it makes up for by not being as buggy as gnome, and by also providing a more complete desktop environment.
my australian $0.02... that's probably US$0.03 to you... ;-)
it is hypocritical that debian should purport to be a free ( ie: =~ /free/) distribution if they do not distribute material which does not support their point of view (or personal bias, in the case of KDE/Qt...).
it should be taken as granted that people have sufficiently developed brains to decipher what is meant by the 'non-free' CD. debian is showing itself to be more like a religion in its ideals than a group of dedicated computer enthusiasts.
to slashdotters: for freedom's sake, please show some balanced moderation which supports both points of view...
it is complete folly not to include KDE with debian -- there ARE NO non-free license issues with KDE -- this is FUD tactics a la microsoft. troll tech could GPL Qt and i'm sure the debian group would continue to dismiss it. 'fess up debian people....you just don't like it because it's not gnome.
and besides, anyone who honestly feels that gnome is better spends most of their time choosing gtk themes and arranging panels.
stability first, then pixmaps please....
1980's paradigm: If it's worth implementing once, it's worth implementing twice.
1990's paradigm: Ship the prototype!
2000's paradigm: Ship the idea!
--Larry Rosler
but also:
gnome paradigm: ship the pixmaps and graphic art! don't worry about all those GtkCritical's and anomolous behaviour!
kde paradigm: ok guys, everything works as we've documented, let's ship...
so the hell what if it looks like microsoft's software??? WHY DOES THAT MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY NOT GOOD??? this constant obsession-bitching-bickering about so-and-so's software, my toolkit's better than yours (cause i can pixmap my scrollbar...) and my FREE OPEN SOURCE LICENSE is NOT GOOD ENOUGH because a COMPANY made it... is just depressing.
linux is about FREEDOM, the very same principle that the free-er-than-thou crowd believe they are touting. you are SO HARDCORE to use all those 'standard UNIX things'...congratulations. this 'i write emacs extensions in assembly'-attitude is just pathetic. i LIKE KDE. i LIKE gnome. do you want to tell me these projects suck because they have ripped stuff off microsoft???
UNIX could learn a few things from microsoft about interfaces besides. no honest person can tell me that microsoft has not created a single good product or highly-intuitive GUI. i deny anyone to tell me that office does not kick arse. when is UNIX going to realise that 'team effort' does not equate to 'not microsoft'?
to those who write the software we use, i thank you. you are doing an AMAZING job and the whole world is watching us.
a good artist borrows; a great artist steals. don't kid yourself that microsoft does not have some things that are worth stealing. where do you think they got it from?
disillusioned but hopeful.