Since you won't post your email addy, I'll just flame you here.
YOU KNOW NOT OF WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT.
You site his arrogance. Yet you don't even see your own. Linux is ok, I use it on desktops because the WM I like works better on SuSE than BSD. (openwin if you must know, and I use to have suse.org until I gave it to a friend).
"Immature flamers or arrogant snobs (Betcha can't guess which is which)"
First assumption: counter -> any package that linux can run, so can FreeBSD.
Second assumption: If it has the tool that you need to do the job, and they are tight (hard to crack) use it.
I run a 'site' that has over 170 FreeBSD severs. We process over 120 MILLION hits a day on just one of the products that we manage. I was a Linux geek before this job. Now I run FreeBSD. It rocks! Show me a linux site that moves 482Mb/s and I'll look at linux again. Can linux really handle 1024 spawns of apache? Not from what I've seen.
I sent mail to myself from the dotcomnow.com system and found that it's really handled by cp.net (Critical Path) out of San Francisco.
The Public and Investor Relationships contact is a Stefanie Elkins (415-344-5503) selkins@cp.net.
Their "Email Solutions for Proprietary/Groupware Systems" toll free number is 1-800-826-4666. I'll call THEM and ask them to remove any knowledge of my domains from their system... and remind them that I'm a Washington State Resident and we don't like spam. We have a nice anti-spam law here.
With more and more CIDR space being used, I'd rather block the actual ARIN netblock that the abusive user is on. A quick whois to ARIN will give the info. That way you keep it to the acutal orginazation that the abuser is posting from, be it a/28 block or a/22. You might want to put a limit on it incase it's an unswipped PSI/8 or something though.
I would highly suggest aganst publishing the netblocks that are blackholed. This would lead to DOS problems for the abuser's ISP by the lynch mob and open/. up to many calls from lawyers.
I'm sure there are a few exceptions here, but I suspect 95%+ of us fall into a very specific category:
* White
* Male
* Parents owned a home computer
* Our primary schools had computer labs
I'm wondering if there isn't starting to be a divide between the generations here. The first two apply to me but there weren't computers in homes when I was a kid and the 'computer' in my highschool was a teletype with a 300 baud modem connected to a 'mainframe' at the collage across the state.
I was writing programs, just for the fun of it, when I had no access to computers. I would go to the local Radio Shack and use the demo 'computer' (4Kbytes of RAM, I bet your keyboard has more now) to learn and enjoy. I dropped out of highschool but continued to learn computers and many other things.
The point being, I didn't need the 'net to learn... just good old RTFM. I leared computers and electronics because I'm obsessed with them. If anyone is obsessed with something, they will learn about it, regardless of what class/race they are. I worked at many drive-ins and shit jobs while at home I played with computers. I sought out and associated with other 'geeks'.
I'm now the Sr. Network Eng. at the 24th largest ISP. I hardly look at the education of job applicants... but rather look for the lust of computers and networks. Those that have it will learn what they need to know to do the job. Can't spell? Ok, can you configure ispell and use it? Ok, you're hired.
Another thing that seems to have been overlooked is that most IT people are in it for the pure love of tech. Most didn't get into the field for the money. I'm sure if you ask Rob if he put all the work into slashdot for the money, he'd just laugh at you and ask you to buy him a beer. We are just lucky that IT pays so well. I guess that I could have been wired to be a gearhead rather than a nethead I'd be making just a living wage working on cars. It takes about the same brains and the good ones are obsessed with it.
Most people I know have ended up in fields that they find interesting. As long as people make a comfortable living, no problem. Sure, most jobs require using a computer. The kid that changes my oil pulls up my record on a UNIX terminal everytime I pull up. Most McDonalds are more wired than most offices. When I was a kid (think early '70's) working at a place that required you to wear a radio headset would have been a dream. Now we 'pity' those people.
About 100 years ago the phone was a new as computers are today. Only the elite had them. Within a few decades, everyone had one. The same will happen with net access, but quicker. Look at what is happening with pagers and cell phones... everyone has them (blacks included).
This old-timer just says wait a few years and this whole topic will be moot. That doesn't mean don't help people that ask or stop coding freeware. It's just that I don't think it the crisis that Katz makes it out to be.
"...I think that it's safe to say that noone in the world gets more than 150 million hits per day of static content..." and "...Oh, if you're serving up >1800 files per second of 2k files, who are you?..."
Flying Crocodile, Inc. (www.flyingcroc.com). We have FreeBSD/Apache machines running at 27Mb/s. This is on off the shelf Pent-II boxes, ok, the have 1GB of ram and UW-SCSI drives... but single cpu boards. With the new FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE the above mentioned box runs with a load of 3.3 and over half the cpu idle.
The numbers that you talk about are the numbers that I deal with everyday. We would never think of running NT. With over 130 servers we couldn't afford the massive staff to sit around and reboot the boxes all day and night... that and I would hate to have to wire a monitor/keyboard/mouse to each box!
The servers together do over 145M hits per day and thank god the Cisco GSR12008 is shipping next week, the three 7507's are hammered!
"...Oh, one more thing. If this is all on an intranet, you'll still need Gigabit ethernet if you're serving up the 10k+ files..."
More like 2 GE to Frontier and Teleglobe, with various other T3's get the job done. BTW: before you start crunching numbers, not all the 130 servers are cranking 27Mb/s, many are doing massive database work.
Another interesting number, at our peak in the day we route about 79,000 packets per second, figure that about 1/4 of those are http requests. Peak total for today was 419Mb/s using mrtg.
IMHO: I use to be a Linux nut, still use it for desktop work, but FreeBSD kicks ass when it comes to serving. If you think my numbers are crazy, Yahoo trucks twice the bandwidth, no wonder they use FreeBSD too.
The tests have been done by those who's bussiness is to crank out the hits. Most use neither NT nor Linux.
If you doubt this post, just do a looking-glass on 207.246.128.0/20... the connections exist.
About a year ago I played with the raid0 and md linux stuff and found that I was able to raid any set of devices. I had scsi and ide drives on the same raid set.
I remember reading that it didn't even care if you use MFM drives although that would really slow things down. Since it's software, I don't see any reason why you couldn't raid0 a set of floppy drives... just to see how slow you can make you disk access:) Remember, this is *nix, any mountable/dev should work. It's up to you to decide how silly to make it.
Where I work, in ISP/Telecom building in Seattle, when I see someone in Goth I instantly think of them belonging to the underclass.. that is, ISP tech support.
You can see our noc-cam here running on a FreeBSD box. This box is also the ftp.suse.org server, so there!
We run a farm of over 80 FreeBSD servers pumping over 150Mb/s (the cam shows the routers).
And on the age thing... I'm a 38 year old network engineer who runs SuSE on my desktop but work for a 25 year old that runs this FreeBSD farm. Go figure.
You do have a good point there. If I wasn't so busy working for a FreeBSD house (80 servers and growing each day) I'd take a shot at Be. I did just install Suse 6.0, more impovements and glibc now. But I need to figure out how NOT to have KDE as the wm. KDE is slick but I still use olvwm. 5 years to hone my conf files... I can't leave now. With the work I do (ssh to many hosts and telnet's to routers and switches) it does me just fine. Anyway, the only apps I really use are xterm, netscape and calc. Hell, I still read my mail in pine!
Anyway, back to Suse 6.0: nothing really new on the install, but setting up X was so easy that I felt guilty. It even knew what a Smile CA-6736DL monitor was. The monitor data base is huge. Finding the specs for you tube has always been the bitch when it came to setting up X.
I should also note that I'm a bit biased. I do own the ftp.suse.org mirror. But when the company is shoving out 135Mb/s of porn, a small mirror is naught:)
I manage a site where today we topped 110Mb/s outbound. We use FreeBSD with about 40 boxes. Most of them are doing banner counting and SQL database tracking over 10,000 sites with about 90M hits per day. One box that does just plain web serving (Apache) is a single PII-400/512Mb with UW-SCSI drives maintains a constant bandwidth of 20Mb/s with about 700 spawns of httpd. Load is about 2.5 on this box.
When I came to the this company I was a die-hard Linux geek. Now I see that FreeBSD makes a better production server. I still use SuSE for my desktop as it configs so easy. I don't know if you can get the above numbers with Linux. If you have, please let me know.
Slashdot Mirror
You can look at us at www.FlyingCroc.com
Just a hint, if you apply for one of the "Technology" jobs, you have a better chance if your resume is in plain ASCII :)
YOU KNOW NOT OF WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT.
You site his arrogance. Yet you don't even see your own. Linux is ok, I use it on desktops because the WM I like works better on SuSE than BSD. (openwin if you must know, and I use to have suse.org until I gave it to a friend).
"Immature flamers or arrogant snobs (Betcha can't guess which is which)"
Yep, I can, you are the hallmark.
Second assumption: If it has the tool that you need to do the job, and they are tight (hard to crack) use it.
I run a 'site' that has over 170 FreeBSD severs. We process over 120 MILLION hits a day on just one of the products that we manage. I was a Linux geek before this job. Now I run FreeBSD. It rocks! Show me a linux site that moves 482Mb/s and I'll look at linux again. Can linux really handle 1024 spawns of apache? Not from what I've seen.
"Show me the proc table."
The Public and Investor Relationships contact is a Stefanie Elkins (415-344-5503) selkins@cp.net.
Their "Email Solutions for Proprietary/Groupware Systems" toll free number is 1-800-826-4666. I'll call THEM and ask them to remove any knowledge of my domains from their system... and remind them that I'm a Washington State Resident and we don't like spam. We have a nice anti-spam law here.
I would highly suggest aganst publishing the netblocks that are blackholed. This would lead to DOS problems for the abuser's ISP by the lynch mob and open /. up to many calls from lawyers.
I'm wondering if there isn't starting to be a divide between the generations here. The first two apply to me but there weren't computers in homes when I was a kid and the 'computer' in my highschool was a teletype with a 300 baud modem connected to a 'mainframe' at the collage across the state.
I was writing programs, just for the fun of it, when I had no access to computers. I would go to the local Radio Shack and use the demo 'computer' (4Kbytes of RAM, I bet your keyboard has more now) to learn and enjoy. I dropped out of highschool but continued to learn computers and many other things.
The point being, I didn't need the 'net to learn... just good old RTFM. I leared computers and electronics because I'm obsessed with them. If anyone is obsessed with something, they will learn about it, regardless of what class/race they are. I worked at many drive-ins and shit jobs while at home I played with computers. I sought out and associated with other 'geeks'.
I'm now the Sr. Network Eng. at the 24th largest ISP. I hardly look at the education of job applicants... but rather look for the lust of computers and networks. Those that have it will learn what they need to know to do the job. Can't spell? Ok, can you configure ispell and use it? Ok, you're hired.
Another thing that seems to have been overlooked is that most IT people are in it for the pure love of tech. Most didn't get into the field for the money. I'm sure if you ask Rob if he put all the work into slashdot for the money, he'd just laugh at you and ask you to buy him a beer. We are just lucky that IT pays so well. I guess that I could have been wired to be a gearhead rather than a nethead I'd be making just a living wage working on cars. It takes about the same brains and the good ones are obsessed with it.
Most people I know have ended up in fields that they find interesting. As long as people make a comfortable living, no problem. Sure, most jobs require using a computer. The kid that changes my oil pulls up my record on a UNIX terminal everytime I pull up. Most McDonalds are more wired than most offices. When I was a kid (think early '70's) working at a place that required you to wear a radio headset would have been a dream. Now we 'pity' those people.
About 100 years ago the phone was a new as computers are today. Only the elite had them. Within a few decades, everyone had one. The same will happen with net access, but quicker. Look at what is happening with pagers and cell phones... everyone has them (blacks included).
This old-timer just says wait a few years and this whole topic will be moot. That doesn't mean don't help people that ask or stop coding freeware. It's just that I don't think it the crisis that Katz makes it out to be.
At least this is more inline with what the 'net would like to see... is this just a pr stunt or a real change in the core of the company?
"...I think that it's safe to say that noone in the world gets more than 150 million hits per day of static content..."
and
"...Oh, if you're serving up >1800 files per second of 2k files, who are you?..."
Flying Crocodile, Inc. (www.flyingcroc.com). We have FreeBSD/Apache machines running at 27Mb/s. This is on off the shelf Pent-II boxes, ok, the have 1GB of ram and UW-SCSI drives... but single cpu boards. With the new FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE the above mentioned box runs with a load of 3.3 and over half the cpu idle.
The numbers that you talk about are the numbers that I deal with everyday. We would never think of running NT. With over 130 servers we couldn't afford the massive staff to sit around and reboot the boxes all day and night... that and I would hate to have to wire a monitor/keyboard/mouse to each box!
The servers together do over 145M hits per day and thank god the Cisco GSR12008 is shipping next week, the three 7507's are hammered!
"...Oh, one more thing. If this is all on an intranet, you'll still need Gigabit ethernet if you're serving up the 10k+ files..."
More like 2 GE to Frontier and Teleglobe, with various other T3's get the job done. BTW: before you start crunching numbers, not all the 130 servers are cranking 27Mb/s, many are doing massive database work.
Another interesting number, at our peak in the day we route about 79,000 packets per second, figure that about 1/4 of those are http requests. Peak total for today was 419Mb/s using mrtg.
IMHO: I use to be a Linux nut, still use it for desktop work, but FreeBSD kicks ass when it comes to serving. If you think my numbers are crazy, Yahoo trucks twice the bandwidth, no wonder they use FreeBSD too.
The tests have been done by those who's bussiness is to crank out the hits. Most use neither NT nor Linux.
If you doubt this post, just do a looking-glass on 207.246.128.0/20... the connections exist.
About a year ago I played with the raid0 and md linux stuff and found that I was able to raid any set of devices. I had scsi and ide drives on the same raid set.
:) Remember, this is *nix, any mountable /dev should work. It's up to you to decide how silly to make it.
I remember reading that it didn't even care if you use MFM drives although that would really slow things down. Since it's software, I don't see any reason why you couldn't raid0 a set of floppy drives... just to see how slow you can make you disk access
Where I work, in ISP/Telecom building in Seattle, when I see someone in Goth I instantly think of them belonging to the underclass.. that is, ISP tech support.
We run a farm of over 80 FreeBSD servers pumping over 150Mb/s (the cam shows the routers).
And on the age thing... I'm a 38 year old network engineer who runs SuSE on my desktop but work for a 25 year old that runs this FreeBSD farm. Go figure.
After the border crossing to the US side from Victoria, BC, I can state that the US considers it a forign counrty! It must be the deadhead sticker.
Maybe it was the Canadain Goverment halting him because he didn't mirror his page French.
You do have a good point there. If I wasn't so busy working for a FreeBSD house (80 servers and growing each day) I'd take a shot at Be. I did just install Suse 6.0, more impovements and glibc now. But I need to figure out how NOT to have KDE as the wm. KDE is slick but I still use olvwm. 5 years to hone my conf files... I can't leave now. With the work I do (ssh to many hosts and telnet's to routers and switches) it does me just fine. Anyway, the only apps I really use are xterm, netscape and calc. Hell, I still read my mail in pine!
:)
Anyway, back to Suse 6.0: nothing really new on the install, but setting up X was so easy that I felt guilty. It even knew what a Smile CA-6736DL monitor was. The monitor data base is huge. Finding the specs for you tube has always been the bitch when it came to setting up X.
I should also note that I'm a bit biased. I do own the ftp.suse.org mirror. But when the company is shoving out 135Mb/s of porn, a small mirror is naught
-Joe
When I came to the this company I was a die-hard Linux geek. Now I see that FreeBSD makes a better production server. I still use SuSE for my desktop as it configs so easy. I don't know if you can get the above numbers with Linux. If you have, please let me know.