It seems to me like any potential for exploiting millisecond delays in transaction transmission will be consumed and defeated by the time it takes a human operator to interpret the information and hit the "confirm purchase/sale" button.
Did you even read the summary? Let me quote the relevant section:
The 'algos' that make autonomous trading decisions
The problem is the start-up cost. Buying the necessary hardware, obtaining the required data sources, developing the necessary analytical formulas and coding them efficiently costs a *lot* of money. So it's the free market of people who already have a lot of money and time, or simply an enormous amount of money.
Because the people currently providing these services didn't have to pay all the infrastructure and coding costs when they joined? Since when did "free market" mean you didn't have to spend money to join in?
When the exact specs only exist on two manufacturer's machines, for example, and both only offer it with Windows installed, and jack the price $40 because of it, where is my choice?
I guess you just don't have one. Those computer manufacturers have no obligation to sell you a product.
No, he was saying that if you weren't a C++ programmer that you should leave the industry as if being able to program C++ and knowing pointers and memory management was some sort of godlike skill. The people who bluster on about how they know about memory management and pointers are usually the ones who write some of the leakiest code around.
But Amazon is reprinting these books they aren't providing digital copies. So, yes, they are probably going to charge something to cover the costs of printing.
Yes, but this frontend uses about 75 megs of RAM without anything running. When it's actually doing something it uses around 175 megs of RAM. The fact that Firefox can use more on start up with no tabs open is not a positive for Firefox.
I've seen such horrible Java programs from new programmers because they are never taught ANYTHING about memory management.
Well but that can be said of programs written in any language. It's not a language or frameworks fault if you can't write good code. There is nothing inherent to Java, C#, etc that mean that your program HAS to be bloated or use a lot of memory. Most of the time it happens for the same reason you see bloated and memory leaky C/C++ program: programmer inexperience or laziness.
In all programs, yes sometimes you don't want to deal with them when you can use a language feature to simplify things. Dealing with new/deletes, etc is both a tedious task and can be very error prone as one can see by the number of C++ programs that have memory leak issues. Now this isn't to say that there aren't cases where you have to do it because of critical performance reasons.
it's perfectly fine to optimize development time, but this trend of offloading excess work onto users platform is unacceptable.
It's unacceptable to use a built-in language feature, such as auto_ptr, to help to reduce the amount of memory leaks? Huh?
The rest of your post has no relevance at all to what I was talking about. I wasn't proclaiming that one shouldn't ever manage their memory manually or that you shouldn't care about performance or the quality of your code because hardware will get faster to make up for it. You seem to be ranting at someone else or else your turning my post into some sort of strawman.
Yes, but since every Java and.NET app are supposed to be super bloated wouldn't they by that very virtue have bigger executables and use more RAM than any C or C++ program? Or maybe my point was that such oft-repeated hyperbole is moronic.
Yes, Azureus is a crappily written program. The point though is that I've seen it running with 10+ torrents for the same amount of time as Firefox and it still uses less memory. The point was that this whole notion that only Java and.NET programs are bloated use up tons of RAM is a stupid and incorrect meme.
So you are both right: garbage collection that doesn't get enough data from the programmer sucks, and programmers that rely upon it suck - but auto_ptr and Boost's smart_ptr's don't belong to that category.
Yes, relying on a garbage collector that you and the GP describe which is about 10-15 years out of date would make you a sucky programmer. Fortunately for us, though, GCs have gotten much better since then.
Are any of those.NET apps a web browser or office application? Both require the files they are working on (or at least a sufficiently large portion of them) to reside in local memory. I'm guessing your.NET apps aren't doing anything as data intensive.
The apps I am using store lots of what they are working in in local memory. One of them is a karaoke subtitle editor which holds the audio in ram, the other is a bittorrent client and one is actually a pretty bloated.NET program that is a frontend for a bunch of encoding tools and it still uses less memory than Firefox does on load up with no tabs opened.
Bzzzt wrong. Look at the code, it's 98% or so C++. The only parts that are Java are some database access layers and some stuff for multimedia. Way to show yourself as being an idiot for repeating this oft-repeated and incorrect meme.
Second: The language has little to no bearing on the amount of RAM being used. The amount of data being stored (and how it's stored), however, does. Firefox stores a lot of images and such, which, surprise surprise, eat up RAM.
So then you've just effectively nullified your own point since you were blaming the languages on the bloat instead of the crappy programmers.
And btw before someone mentions something like Azureus as a counterexample, I've seen Firefox still eat up more RAM than that program if they are running for the same period of time and that's with about 10 or so torrents running in it.
Memory safe ? What is exactly this concept of "memory safe" ? Having a GC that does not have a clue of what the programmer wants to do ? To have a such dumb programmer that expects that memory allocations can be entirely managed by other layers ?
That's funny because any good C++ programmer will take advantage of auto_ptrs which effectively do manage memory for you automatically. Or is Bjarne Stroustop only a "dumb programmer" since he advocates their usage?
The unchecked bloat that is being output by these latest college grads who know nothing but c#, vb, and java are serving no one's interest besides the hardware vendors.
That's funny cause I've never seen a single C# or Java apps that uses as much memory as C++ programs like Firefox (currently using 350 megs of RAM) or OpenOffice.org (current using 250 megs of RAM). On the other hand I have 5 different.NET apps and a Java app running and their combined RAM usage isn't even 200 megs.
Or better yet- take the crowbar and whack programmers who can't write in C++ until they leave the industry.
Because C++ is the pinnacle of programming knowledge? *giggle*
If you can't understand memory allocation and pointers, you aren't competent to be in this profession.
Just because one can understand memory allocations and pointers doesn't mean one wants to have to deal with them manually in all their programs. There is a reason why there are auto_ptrs in C++ and it's not because those people are "noobs", it's because people want to actually spend their time writing the program rather than having their time eaten up by writing tons of boilerplate memory management code.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure it can, but there are certain fields that are just going to have high barriers to entry by their very nature.
It seems to me like any potential for exploiting millisecond delays in transaction transmission will be consumed and defeated by the time it takes a human operator to interpret the information and hit the "confirm purchase/sale" button.
Did you even read the summary? Let me quote the relevant section:
The 'algos' that make autonomous trading decisions
The problem is the start-up cost. Buying the necessary hardware, obtaining the required data sources, developing the necessary analytical formulas and coding them efficiently costs a *lot* of money. So it's the free market of people who already have a lot of money and time, or simply an enormous amount of money.
Because the people currently providing these services didn't have to pay all the infrastructure and coding costs when they joined? Since when did "free market" mean you didn't have to spend money to join in?
Or how strictly does a typical private tracker enforce ratios for older, overseeded torrents?
Private trackers enforce a ratio for your cumulative downloads and uploads not on a individual torrent basis.
These corporate moneymongers are sad that they can only buy 3 boats this year instead of two
lolwut? Why would someone be sad that they could afford more boat than they originally expected?
>May be you are more lazy _THAN_ the guy that learn English as a second language.
And you must be lazier than the guy that _LEARNED_ English as a second language.
>If you don't even know these two, then you are not qualify to be on slashdot.
I guess you're even less _QUALIFIED_ to be on Slashdot.
Losing your job to Bender: technological progress.
If you lost your job to Bender it means you're even lazier then the guy who accept packages at the moon amusement park
Yes, because in this vast world there is only the singular good coder and everyone else is lousy or a student.
When the exact specs only exist on two manufacturer's machines, for example, and both only offer it with Windows installed, and jack the price $40 because of it, where is my choice?
I guess you just don't have one. Those computer manufacturers have no obligation to sell you a product.
No, he was saying that if you weren't a C++ programmer that you should leave the industry as if being able to program C++ and knowing pointers and memory management was some sort of godlike skill. The people who bluster on about how they know about memory management and pointers are usually the ones who write some of the leakiest code around.
But Amazon is reprinting these books they aren't providing digital copies. So, yes, they are probably going to charge something to cover the costs of printing.
Yes, but this frontend uses about 75 megs of RAM without anything running. When it's actually doing something it uses around 175 megs of RAM. The fact that Firefox can use more on start up with no tabs open is not a positive for Firefox.
I've seen such horrible Java programs from new programmers because they are never taught ANYTHING about memory management.
Well but that can be said of programs written in any language. It's not a language or frameworks fault if you can't write good code. There is nothing inherent to Java, C#, etc that mean that your program HAS to be bloated or use a lot of memory. Most of the time it happens for the same reason you see bloated and memory leaky C/C++ program: programmer inexperience or laziness.
"don't want to deal with them"?
In all programs, yes sometimes you don't want to deal with them when you can use a language feature to simplify things. Dealing with new/deletes, etc is both a tedious task and can be very error prone as one can see by the number of C++ programs that have memory leak issues. Now this isn't to say that there aren't cases where you have to do it because of critical performance reasons.
it's perfectly fine to optimize development time, but this trend of offloading excess work onto users platform is unacceptable.
It's unacceptable to use a built-in language feature, such as auto_ptr, to help to reduce the amount of memory leaks? Huh?
The rest of your post has no relevance at all to what I was talking about. I wasn't proclaiming that one shouldn't ever manage their memory manually or that you shouldn't care about performance or the quality of your code because hardware will get faster to make up for it. You seem to be ranting at someone else or else your turning my post into some sort of strawman.
Then use a framework, like Qt, that deals with all of that for you.
Or I can just use a built-in language feature like auto_ptr which takes away most of what you used to have to do manually.
Just because you don't need to mess around with pointers, that doesn't mean everyone doesn't need to.
Great. I never made any such claim. Are you arguing against someone else with that sentence?
Yes, but since every Java and .NET app are supposed to be super bloated wouldn't they by that very virtue have bigger executables and use more RAM than any C or C++ program? Or maybe my point was that such oft-repeated hyperbole is moronic.
Yes, Azureus is a crappily written program. The point though is that I've seen it running with 10+ torrents for the same amount of time as Firefox and it still uses less memory. The point was that this whole notion that only Java and .NET programs are bloated use up tons of RAM is a stupid and incorrect meme.
So you are both right: garbage collection that doesn't get enough data from the programmer sucks, and programmers that rely upon it suck - but auto_ptr and Boost's smart_ptr's don't belong to that category.
Yes, relying on a garbage collector that you and the GP describe which is about 10-15 years out of date would make you a sucky programmer. Fortunately for us, though, GCs have gotten much better since then.
Are any of those .NET apps a web browser or office application? Both require the files they are working on (or at least a sufficiently large portion of them) to reside in local memory. I'm guessing your .NET apps aren't doing anything as data intensive.
The apps I am using store lots of what they are working in in local memory. One of them is a karaoke subtitle editor which holds the audio in ram, the other is a bittorrent client and one is actually a pretty bloated .NET program that is a frontend for a bunch of encoding tools and it still uses less memory than Firefox does on load up with no tabs opened.
First: OO.o is Java.
Bzzzt wrong. Look at the code, it's 98% or so C++. The only parts that are Java are some database access layers and some stuff for multimedia. Way to show yourself as being an idiot for repeating this oft-repeated and incorrect meme.
Second: The language has little to no bearing on the amount of RAM being used. The amount of data being stored (and how it's stored), however, does. Firefox stores a lot of images and such, which, surprise surprise, eat up RAM.
So then you've just effectively nullified your own point since you were blaming the languages on the bloat instead of the crappy programmers.
And btw before someone mentions something like Azureus as a counterexample, I've seen Firefox still eat up more RAM than that program if they are running for the same period of time and that's with about 10 or so torrents running in it.
Memory safe ? What is exactly this concept of "memory safe" ? Having a GC that does not have a clue of what the programmer wants to do ? To have a such dumb programmer that expects that memory allocations can be entirely managed by other layers ?
That's funny because any good C++ programmer will take advantage of auto_ptrs which effectively do manage memory for you automatically. Or is Bjarne Stroustop only a "dumb programmer" since he advocates their usage?
The unchecked bloat that is being output by these latest college grads who know nothing but c#, vb, and java are serving no one's interest besides the hardware vendors.
That's funny cause I've never seen a single C# or Java apps that uses as much memory as C++ programs like Firefox (currently using 350 megs of RAM) or OpenOffice.org (current using 250 megs of RAM). On the other hand I have 5 different .NET apps and a Java app running and their combined RAM usage isn't even 200 megs.
Or better yet- take the crowbar and whack programmers who can't write in C++ until they leave the industry.
Because C++ is the pinnacle of programming knowledge? *giggle*
If you can't understand memory allocation and pointers, you aren't competent to be in this profession.
Just because one can understand memory allocations and pointers doesn't mean one wants to have to deal with them manually in all their programs. There is a reason why there are auto_ptrs in C++ and it's not because those people are "noobs", it's because people want to actually spend their time writing the program rather than having their time eaten up by writing tons of boilerplate memory management code.
sure when those 'memory safe' languages produce efficient executables that do not require 400MB 'runtimes' to function.
So that means Java and .NET are good to go as neither one of them have 400MB runtimes.
The net result from these sandbox environments is a bloated app that requires 5-10x more ram than is needed.
Only if you can't code worth shit.