Linux works pretty well on old hardware, but a fellow shouldn't have unreal expectations... especially with newer distrobutions. A good example of this would be Mandrake 8.1, I installed it on my ancient Dell (a PII/400 w/ 128 MB RAM)... you haven't experienced pain until you've watched kernel 2.4 boot (or GNOME/KDE, even Mozilla) run on that hardware. My roommate uses his old PC (PIII/650) for Red Hat 6.2, which is OK at best. He would be way better off with at least 384 MB RAM and probably a faster graphics card. But anything not requiring X works pretty well with his current config.
Really, though... with hardware being pretty affordable these days, there's no reason not to use something modern.
If I recall correctly, film being projected (theatre) moves at 48fps. It shows every frame twice before
moving to the next one. Though, I'm not too sure if that's the same way it gets shot. (Exposing each frame
twice.)
A typical modern film projector (such as the Christies in your local multiplex) displays each frame three times before advancing to the next frame. Put it this way, there are two frequencies at play, the 24Hz film advance and the 72Hz lamp shutter. Each frame is projected three times, then advanced to the next frame (durring a shutter pass, so you don't actually see the frame zip off the screen... that'd be bizzare).
Straight 48 Hz shutter would be hard on the eyes and straight 24 Hz would be maddening. With current film shot at 24 Hz, the 24/72 mix is perfect. When cinema goes 48 Hz film (a nice easy upgrade), I imagine the projectors will run the shutter at 96 Hz... exposing each frame twice before advancing.
BTW, it's the mix of the 24 Hz frame advance and the 72 Hz shutter that makes the neat "ticka-ticka-ticka" projector sound you hear up in the projection booth. That and the (usually squeeky) film platters.
Oh and about the subject of this post, the fact that the Itanium is 64 bits is not really all that important - the fact that a processor is 64 instead of 32
bits doesn't say anything about how fast it is. If you think it does, you can buy my R4400 Indigo2 for $10K:)
Or my R10000 Indigo2 for $20K... at least it runs "IRIX64" the 64-bit kernel and the 64-bit ABIs.
AFAIK, the only SGIs that use the R4400 in a 64-bit manner are the Challenge L, Challenge XL, and (original) Onyx. R4400 in desktop machines is limited to 32-bit support for memory contraint issues. 64-bit on the desktop from SGI requires an R8000/R10000 based Indigo2, R10K/R12K/R14K Octane/Octane2, or R14K Fuel. All other desktop configurations are limited to O32 and N32.
Cool that you offer some of your software for sale. Also interesting to see that it is available for the SGI MIPS/IRIX platform. We primarily use SGI Octanes in our (research) institution but the bigwigs are pushing for a move to x86/Linux for PR reasons. (Though next week they'll probably jump on the XP bandwagon). Interesting thing about our situation is that our current workstations are already much faster than we need... the limiting factor, the bottleneck in our case is on the human end.
Has the DJ industry changed within the past six hours? Why would a laptop be too bulky? Trying to move from 1000 lbs of gear to just an MP3-enabled PDA overnight? Shucks, I wouldn't hire a DJ that doesn't bring in at least two turntables, two CD players, and gobs of media. I don't see how a single laptop would be that much of a problem for a professional DJ...
I'm loving mozilla more and more with each milestone release... but I'm beginning to wonder if some of the promised performance tweaks will make it into 1.0...
On all of my machines (Linux/x86, Solaris/SPARC, and IRIX/MIPS) Mozilla seems to be significantly more sluggish than Communicator 4.79 in all areas, with the exception of actual rendering. I realize there are alternative GUIs to the gekko engine, but it would be nice to have one end-all app and engine bundle.
Any word on future (significant) speedups planned for 0.99 and 1.00?
My 3-month-old iBook (the 500 MHz white model, not the colorful toilet seat) tumbled down 12 carpeted steps when it slid off a stack of books I was moving. Held my breath and opened the lid... no cracks, booted up fine. I've been a lot more careful since then.
The backplane, etc is much faster. Where Octane/Octane2 is based on Origin 2000 tech, Fuel is based on Origin 3000. Fuel RAM is 3.2 GB/sec (Octane is 1.0 GB/sec). Fuel CPU interface is twice as fast. Fuel crossbar switch latencies are about half as long.
Octane is a fully loaded 18-wheeler semi traveling down the highway. Fuel is the same semi, with a smaller trailer, and some aftermarket racing tweaks.
Fuel uses a single, flat board with perpendicular expansion cards... somewhat PC (or Sun Blade 1000) like. There is one XIO interface and that's used for graphics, but the physical connector is not traditional XIO.
InfiniteReality is the existing Onyx-class graphics pipeline. Its major focus is on huge texture sets (and fast texture loading/swapping), photorealistic quality, and awesome antialiasing.
InfinitePerformance is a new option for Onyx-class graphics. Its major focuses are faster geometry and lower price... at the cost of reduced texture and AA features.
Both are scalable and can come in a variety of configurations (ie, multipipe DPLEX IR vs multipipe IP). Each has a unique target audience. IR (and future versions of IR) are for folks needing extreme quality and HUGE texture sets. IP (and future versions of IP) are for folks looking for a lower cost option and not needing all of the bells and whistles of IR... but still wanting something way cooler and way more expandable/scalable than desktop 3D.
Probably because the 10k drive is just the system drive, that's how they normally come set up. Usually if you actually
need beefy storage, you'd either hook up your SCSI RAID tower or hook into your SAN.
Note the option they list for a Fiber Channel card - that'll be a popular option. Too bad for them it's not ready yet....
Very true. Most heavily used SGI workstations I've seen tend to have either a Media SCSI RAID or a Ciprico FibreChannel RAID hanging off them. And heck, for uncompressed realtime HD video, you *need* that kind of thruput.
I've already asked my sales rep about the FC card delay. Seems the card is available (same FC card used in other PCI SGIs... such as Origin 300) but offical support is delayed. If you buy the FC card now, it "should work fine" but tech support has been delayed until testing is complete.
First of all, the Fuel workstation is sort of a cool new evolution... it uses the existing V10 and V12 graphics from Octane2, and the chipset from a single Origin 3000 node. This means instant software compatibility and one hell of an awesome base to run future graphics and CPU offerings. Compared to a single CPU Octane2... Fuel has *half* the latency, *3.2x* the RAM thruput, and *twice* the CPU interconnect thruput. And it run the same OS and the same apps. All for about 1/3 to about 1/2 the price. Sounds like a pretty resonable update to me. And an Octane2 ain't too shabby for real-time interactive apps, either. If you haven't already, find one to play with. A VPro-based Octane running IRIX 6.5.12 or newer is a 3D beast, and yet rock solid stable. Even makes for one hell of an uncompressed, realtime HD video solution, if you can afford the RAID and HD interface. I've never seen a PC or Mac HD solution come even close to Octane2. And Fuel is that much better...
Folks run IRIX for HD video editing, effects compositing, and 3D modeling for a reason -- it works and it doesn't have the "crap out" effect when working under a huge load. Sure the CPUs in an SGI aren't extremely powerful, but that doesn't matter much -- it's the crossbar switch architecture (Octane/Octane2 is based on Origin 2000, Fuel is based on Origin 3000) and wide busses that make the difference. Batch jobs and long haul rendering is all done on a farm of cheap PC's anyway (unless you're ILM, which owns six Origin 2000s, each with 128 CPUs).
SGI screwed up big time in the past, but they're working on fixing the situation. They can't do everything at once, but they're working as hard as they can. They're a pretty wide spread company. Hell, they even own Alias-Wavefront (ever heard of Maya?). They're doing some other cool things, too. Their developer program is now free to commercial developers, but hobbyists with a real project are invited as well in a case-by-case basis. They're even giving away a Fuel workstation at the SGI Global Developer Conference next month. And it's not just a drawing, either. The winner of the machine will be a hobbyist with an attendee-voted best project. Very, very cool stuff.
wonder if SGI has the manpower left to design new, innovative graphics architectures, or will they be just slapping
more texture and cranking the clock on old designs.
I've been told that a speed boost along the lines of a "V14" and "V16" will be available in May, with a totally new gfx line (compatible with existing machines as just a new gfx card) becoming available this fall.
Then, of course, there are neat new SGI gfx offerings such as Onyx InfinitePerformance...
Silly troll, IRIX is for work! (Not customizing the desktop every which way).
Of course, there is GNOME (http://freeware.sgi.com).
And IRIX *apps* don't look too shabby...
http://www.ifx.com/pages/piranha/screenshot/dx2. ht ml
http://www.electronicfarm.com/mule/screen_images /s creen03_full.jpg
Not to mention that VPro graphics in Octane2 and Fuel are 16 bit per RGBA component... that's 48 bit color (compared the 12bit per RGBA = 32 bit color for most of the computer world). This is important to some people, especially the film crowd.
One of the fellows in our CS GFX class just returned from a 9 month co-op at PDI/Dreamworks. It sounds to me like PDI is still about 90% SGI on the desktop for modeling, layout, animation, etc. Most of the primary desktop machines are pretty new, mostly Octane2 with VPro graphics. Most of the older Octanes and O2s go to the company newbies or as secondary workstations. They do have a small number of PCs (Windows and Linux) and Macs (Mac OS 9 and X) running 2D paint software and some minor 3D stuff. Rendering and other batch server jobs is all Linux on cheap PC hardware in a server room.
Fuel is about as hot as an Octane... which is pretty damn warm. But it's not too bad when you consider that Fuel uses the same chipset as a single Origin 3000 node and blows the doors of a similar equiped Octane/Octane2.
Fuel isn't based on UMA, it's based on the same exact set of ASICs that powers the Origin 3000. This is basicly a 1 CPU version of O3K. Compared to Octane2... Fuel has 3.2x RAM, 2x faster CPU bus, 1/2 the interconnect latency, plus a faster SCSI bus. Neat stuff. Not to mention that VPro graphics are 48bit, compared to the 32bit you find elsewhere. Film people like that.
These are the exact same complaints aired in 1988 when the first NeXT machines shipped with NeXTstep 1.0. I agree with everything you've said. But keep in mind, Mac OS X is its own funky flavor of unix for a reason. I just wish NetInfo was optional. NI is a dream on a large NI network (I used to help admin 320 NeXTstations across our Math department), but it's a pain for someone that doesn't need its offerings.
Ignorance or Evolution? It's hard to say. But I can tell you I've been happy with Mac OS X thus far. Final Cut Pro 3.0 works perfectly. My digital cameras (USB still photo and FireWire MiniDV) integrate fine. OmniWeb 4.1 is looking to be a great new browser (plans for 4.2/5.0 are sounding awesome). And yet I can still run all of the goodies I'm accustom to on my Sun and my Linux box.
That said, OS X is not for someone who wants Linux in the first place. If you want the X Window System, if you want GTK or Qt, if you want GNOME/KDE/etc... do yourself a favor and build a Linux box. Running these under OS X is possible, but a kluge.
Mac OS X is a whole new world. Learn its ways and tools, compute with peace.
Apple's desktops have offered a generic, common, plain SVGA HD-15 connector since the first blue&white G3's several years ago. Almost every single PC monitor will work on a blue&white G3 or silver/graphite G4 without any sort of adapter.
However, older macs used a DB-15 (two rows of pins rather than three rows) connector for the monitor. These require a $10 - $30 adapter to offer the proper connector and pin routing if a PC monitor is to be used.
All current Apple monitors use ADC, the Apple Display Connector... a single cable that carries power, signal, and usb to the montior. ADC is based on some obscure standard that nobody else adopted. Macs with ADC have a second alternate connector for SVGA HD15, but only one connector can be used at a time.
The PowerBook G4 has a SVGA HD15 monitor connector.
The iBook has a funky monitor connector, but a SVGA HD15 adapter is included.
Current desktop Macs have both SVGA HD15 and ADC connectors on their gfx cards. An ADC -> DVI adapter is included for use with a DVI flat panel. (Should you choose not to buy an Apple flat panel). THough, I have been told by more than one person that they had to buy the ADC -> DVI adapter as it's not included with all new G4s. Go figure.
Slashdot Mirror
Linux works pretty well on old hardware, but a fellow shouldn't have unreal expectations... especially with newer distrobutions. A good example of this would be Mandrake 8.1, I installed it on my ancient Dell (a PII/400 w/ 128 MB RAM)... you haven't experienced pain until you've watched kernel 2.4 boot (or GNOME/KDE, even Mozilla) run on that hardware. My roommate uses his old PC (PIII/650) for Red Hat 6.2, which is OK at best. He would be way better off with at least 384 MB RAM and probably a faster graphics card. But anything not requiring X works pretty well with his current config.
Really, though... with hardware being pretty affordable these days, there's no reason not to use something modern.
If I recall correctly, film being projected (theatre) moves at 48fps. It shows every frame twice before moving to the next one. Though, I'm not too sure if that's the same way it gets shot. (Exposing each frame twice.)
A typical modern film projector (such as the Christies in your local multiplex) displays each frame three times before advancing to the next frame. Put it this way, there are two frequencies at play, the 24Hz film advance and the 72Hz lamp shutter. Each frame is projected three times, then advanced to the next frame (durring a shutter pass, so you don't actually see the frame zip off the screen... that'd be bizzare).
Straight 48 Hz shutter would be hard on the eyes and straight 24 Hz would be maddening. With current film shot at 24 Hz, the 24/72 mix is perfect. When cinema goes 48 Hz film (a nice easy upgrade), I imagine the projectors will run the shutter at 96 Hz... exposing each frame twice before advancing.
BTW, it's the mix of the 24 Hz frame advance and the 72 Hz shutter that makes the neat "ticka-ticka-ticka" projector sound you hear up in the projection booth. That and the (usually squeeky) film platters.
Oh and about the subject of this post, the fact that the Itanium is 64 bits is not really all that important - the fact that a processor is 64 instead of 32 bits doesn't say anything about how fast it is. If you think it does, you can buy my R4400 Indigo2 for $10K :)
Or my R10000 Indigo2 for $20K... at least it runs "IRIX64" the 64-bit kernel and the 64-bit ABIs.
elwood 6# uname -aR
IRIX64 elwood 6.5 6.5.15m 01091821 IP28
AFAIK, the only SGIs that use the R4400 in a 64-bit manner are the Challenge L, Challenge XL, and (original) Onyx. R4400 in desktop machines is limited to 32-bit support for memory contraint issues. 64-bit on the desktop from SGI requires an R8000/R10000 based Indigo2, R10K/R12K/R14K Octane/Octane2, or R14K Fuel. All other desktop configurations are limited to O32 and N32.
Cool that you offer some of your software for sale. Also interesting to see that it is available for the SGI MIPS/IRIX platform. We primarily use SGI Octanes in our (research) institution but the bigwigs are pushing for a move to x86/Linux for PR reasons. (Though next week they'll probably jump on the XP bandwagon). Interesting thing about our situation is that our current workstations are already much faster than we need... the limiting factor, the bottleneck in our case is on the human end.
Yes, some large companies like Apple and Enron can end up crashed and burned... but some giants keep chugging along (IBM and especially Microsoft).
Has the DJ industry changed within the past six hours? Why would a laptop be too bulky? Trying to move from 1000 lbs of gear to just an MP3-enabled PDA overnight? Shucks, I wouldn't hire a DJ that doesn't bring in at least two turntables, two CD players, and gobs of media. I don't see how a single laptop would be that much of a problem for a professional DJ...
Is there any connection other than the similar-sounding name?
I'm loving mozilla more and more with each milestone release... but I'm beginning to wonder if some of the promised performance tweaks will make it into 1.0...
On all of my machines (Linux/x86, Solaris/SPARC, and IRIX/MIPS) Mozilla seems to be significantly more sluggish than Communicator 4.79 in all areas, with the exception of actual rendering. I realize there are alternative GUIs to the gekko engine, but it would be nice to have one end-all app and engine bundle.
Any word on future (significant) speedups planned for 0.99 and 1.00?
How does OSX handle tape backup? Is it more like Windows, Linux, or Mac OS 9?
My 3-month-old iBook (the 500 MHz white model, not the colorful toilet seat) tumbled down 12 carpeted steps when it slid off a stack of books I was moving. Held my breath and opened the lid... no cracks, booted up fine. I've been a lot more careful since then.
This thing looks to have the same terrifying memory bandwidth as its
1 310
big brother, the Octane2. 3.2GBps. On a dedicated port crossbar.
Actually, Octane2 has 1 GB/s RAM. Fuel, Origin/Onyx 300, and Origin/Onyx 3000 have 3.2 GB/s RAM.
This guy says it best: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=27074&cid=292
It's Octane Lite for the mostpart, however...
The backplane, etc is much faster. Where Octane/Octane2 is based on Origin 2000 tech, Fuel is based on Origin 3000. Fuel RAM is 3.2 GB/sec (Octane is 1.0 GB/sec). Fuel CPU interface is twice as fast. Fuel crossbar switch latencies are about half as long.
Octane is a fully loaded 18-wheeler semi traveling down the highway. Fuel is the same semi, with a smaller trailer, and some aftermarket racing tweaks.
Fuel uses a single, flat board with perpendicular expansion cards... somewhat PC (or Sun Blade 1000) like. There is one XIO interface and that's used for graphics, but the physical connector is not traditional XIO.
InfiniteReality is the existing Onyx-class graphics pipeline. Its major focus is on huge texture sets (and fast texture loading/swapping), photorealistic quality, and awesome antialiasing.
InfinitePerformance is a new option for Onyx-class graphics. Its major focuses are faster geometry and lower price... at the cost of reduced texture and AA features.
Both are scalable and can come in a variety of configurations (ie, multipipe DPLEX IR vs multipipe IP). Each has a unique target audience. IR (and future versions of IR) are for folks needing extreme quality and HUGE texture sets. IP (and future versions of IP) are for folks looking for a lower cost option and not needing all of the bells and whistles of IR... but still wanting something way cooler and way more expandable/scalable than desktop 3D.
Probably because the 10k drive is just the system drive, that's how they normally come set up. Usually if you actually need beefy storage, you'd either hook up your SCSI RAID tower or hook into your SAN.
Note the option they list for a Fiber Channel card - that'll be a popular option. Too bad for them it's not ready yet....
Very true. Most heavily used SGI workstations I've seen tend to have either a Media SCSI RAID or a Ciprico FibreChannel RAID hanging off them. And heck, for uncompressed realtime HD video, you *need* that kind of thruput.
I've already asked my sales rep about the FC card delay. Seems the card is available (same FC card used in other PCI SGIs... such as Origin 300) but offical support is delayed. If you buy the FC card now, it "should work fine" but tech support has been delayed until testing is complete.
First of all, the Fuel workstation is sort of a cool new evolution... it uses the existing V10 and V12 graphics from Octane2, and the chipset from a single Origin 3000 node. This means instant software compatibility and one hell of an awesome base to run future graphics and CPU offerings. Compared to a single CPU Octane2... Fuel has *half* the latency, *3.2x* the RAM thruput, and *twice* the CPU interconnect thruput. And it run the same OS and the same apps. All for about 1/3 to about 1/2 the price. Sounds like a pretty resonable update to me. And an Octane2 ain't too shabby for real-time interactive apps, either. If you haven't already, find one to play with. A VPro-based Octane running IRIX 6.5.12 or newer is a 3D beast, and yet rock solid stable. Even makes for one hell of an uncompressed, realtime HD video solution, if you can afford the RAID and HD interface. I've never seen a PC or Mac HD solution come even close to Octane2. And Fuel is that much better...
/ 3000/ip/tech_info.html.
Folks run IRIX for HD video editing, effects compositing, and 3D modeling for a reason -- it works and it doesn't have the "crap out" effect when working under a huge load. Sure the CPUs in an SGI aren't extremely powerful, but that doesn't matter much -- it's the crossbar switch architecture (Octane/Octane2 is based on Origin 2000, Fuel is based on Origin 3000) and wide busses that make the difference. Batch jobs and long haul rendering is all done on a farm of cheap PC's anyway (unless you're ILM, which owns six Origin 2000s, each with 128 CPUs).
Secondly, SGI is coming up with some way cool graphics offerings. In my opinion, the new Onyx InfinitePerformance graphics is bigger news than the new workstation:http://www.sgi.com/visualization/onyx
SGI screwed up big time in the past, but they're working on fixing the situation. They can't do everything at once, but they're working as hard as they can. They're a pretty wide spread company. Hell, they even own Alias-Wavefront (ever heard of Maya?). They're doing some other cool things, too. Their developer program is now free to commercial developers, but hobbyists with a real project are invited as well in a case-by-case basis. They're even giving away a Fuel workstation at the SGI Global Developer Conference next month. And it's not just a drawing, either. The winner of the machine will be a hobbyist with an attendee-voted best project. Very, very cool stuff.
http://www.sgi.com/developers
http://www.sgievents.com/developer2002/
wonder if SGI has the manpower left to design new, innovative graphics architectures, or will they be just slapping
more texture and cranking the clock on old designs.
I've been told that a speed boost along the lines of a "V14" and "V16" will be available in May, with a totally new gfx line (compatible with existing machines as just a new gfx card) becoming available this fall.
Then, of course, there are neat new SGI gfx offerings such as Onyx InfinitePerformance...
http://www.sgi.com/visualization/onyx/3000/ip/
Silly troll, IRIX is for work! (Not customizing the desktop every which way).
. ht ml
s /s creen03_full.jpg
Of course, there is GNOME (http://freeware.sgi.com).
And IRIX *apps* don't look too shabby...
http://www.ifx.com/pages/piranha/screenshot/dx2
http://www.electronicfarm.com/mule/screen_image
But at least both the Fuel and your Indy can run the exact same version of IRIX! I love IRIX 6.5! :)
Not to mention that VPro graphics in Octane2 and Fuel are 16 bit per RGBA component... that's 48 bit color (compared the 12bit per RGBA = 32 bit color for most of the computer world). This is important to some people, especially the film crowd.
One of the fellows in our CS GFX class just returned from a 9 month co-op at PDI/Dreamworks. It sounds to me like PDI is still about 90% SGI on the desktop for modeling, layout, animation, etc. Most of the primary desktop machines are pretty new, mostly Octane2 with VPro graphics. Most of the older Octanes and O2s go to the company newbies or as secondary workstations. They do have a small number of PCs (Windows and Linux) and Macs (Mac OS 9 and X) running 2D paint software and some minor 3D stuff. Rendering and other batch server jobs is all Linux on cheap PC hardware in a server room.
Fuel is about as hot as an Octane... which is pretty damn warm. But it's not too bad when you consider that Fuel uses the same chipset as a single Origin 3000 node and blows the doors of a similar equiped Octane/Octane2.
Fuel isn't based on UMA, it's based on the same exact set of ASICs that powers the Origin 3000. This is basicly a 1 CPU version of O3K. Compared to Octane2... Fuel has 3.2x RAM, 2x faster CPU bus, 1/2 the interconnect latency, plus a faster SCSI bus. Neat stuff. Not to mention that VPro graphics are 48bit, compared to the 32bit you find elsewhere. Film people like that.
It looks like SGI is going to give a Fuel workstation away on Feb 27th to... someone that actually deserves one! Check out the "IRIX Innovation Zone"
http://www.sgievents.com/developer2002/
Time to dig out some old, fun OpenGL code... and maybe gcc too (http://freeware.sgi.com)
These are the exact same complaints aired in 1988 when the first NeXT machines shipped with NeXTstep 1.0. I agree with everything you've said. But keep in mind, Mac OS X is its own funky flavor of unix for a reason. I just wish NetInfo was optional. NI is a dream on a large NI network (I used to help admin 320 NeXTstations across our Math department), but it's a pain for someone that doesn't need its offerings.
Ignorance or Evolution? It's hard to say. But I can tell you I've been happy with Mac OS X thus far. Final Cut Pro 3.0 works perfectly. My digital cameras (USB still photo and FireWire MiniDV) integrate fine. OmniWeb 4.1 is looking to be a great new browser (plans for 4.2/5.0 are sounding awesome). And yet I can still run all of the goodies I'm accustom to on my Sun and my Linux box.
That said, OS X is not for someone who wants Linux in the first place. If you want the X Window System, if you want GTK or Qt, if you want GNOME/KDE/etc... do yourself a favor and build a Linux box. Running these under OS X is possible, but a kluge.
Mac OS X is a whole new world. Learn its ways and tools, compute with peace.
Hope this helps.
Apple's desktops have offered a generic, common, plain SVGA HD-15 connector since the first blue&white G3's several years ago. Almost every single PC monitor will work on a blue&white G3 or silver/graphite G4 without any sort of adapter.
However, older macs used a DB-15 (two rows of pins rather than three rows) connector for the monitor. These require a $10 - $30 adapter to offer the proper connector and pin routing if a PC monitor is to be used.
All current Apple monitors use ADC, the Apple Display Connector... a single cable that carries power, signal, and usb to the montior. ADC is based on some obscure standard that nobody else adopted. Macs with ADC have a second alternate connector for SVGA HD15, but only one connector can be used at a time.
The PowerBook G4 has a SVGA HD15 monitor connector.
The iBook has a funky monitor connector, but a SVGA HD15 adapter is included.
Current desktop Macs have both SVGA HD15 and ADC connectors on their gfx cards. An ADC -> DVI adapter is included for use with a DVI flat panel. (Should you choose not to buy an Apple flat panel). THough, I have been told by more than one person that they had to buy the ADC -> DVI adapter as it's not included with all new G4s. Go figure.
Hope this helps.