If you didn't want to deal with the bandwidth to upgrade Gnome, then why did you install/use it?
Classic case of blaming the user. On any other modern OS the user doesn't need to take this kind of nonsense under consideration. BTW when I do use *BSD or Linux desktops I'm more of an XFCE man.
Mac and iOS just hide all the details from you. DLL and dependency hell are still there, they just are Apple's problem, not yours. I simply prefer control over simplicity but for most consumers they prefer simplicity. Thank the magic sky wizard there are more than two closed-source choices for those of use than want to DIY.
In OSX the details that need to be hidden are hidden because most people buy computers to get something done not to fiddle with the innards. That control you talk of is mostly illusionary. It's like muscle car owners: sure they may have "complete control" over their car's engine, being able to tweak every little thing but it comes at the expense of usability and practicality. In the end it's masturbatory, it serves no other purpose than its own sake.
No it's not. Windows broken security was. OS X hasn't got an official package manager and has had about the same problems with malware as Linux has had, that is to say close to none.
Which is precisely why people are upset that a patent was granted for the "featureless" design. It creates a patent that is way too generic/broad.
Simplicity isn't easy, it just looks easy. That it took apple to wipe away all that cruft is evidence enough of that. If it truly were generic someone would have done it before.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
E.F. Schumacher
Nah I just thought that quote was so ridiculously out of proportion I'd inject some reality. After all we're talking about a company winning a court case before a jury of its peers in what is still a democratic nation. To turn that into "a people who give in to tyrants" is more than a little hyperbolic. That I got to rag on the dutch was just a happy coincidence, though as you rightfully point out my people sure aren't any better.
You do realize that all those hundreds of megs worth of libraries also exist on Windows and OS X, they just ship in the box with the OS?
Yep, and on OS X developers use mostly the OS provided libraries while on Linux they pull in all kinds of obscure stuff (how many friggin' XML parsers need to be installed on a system ?)
(which, coincidentally, is why you can have Linux without any GUI at all, but not the other two)
OSX without a GUI exists, it's called Darwin. There have been several implementations even, people just don't care about it.
And, of course, there are plenty of Linux distros that also include all that stuff in the box. If you install a typical desktop app from a package in Ubuntu, it's unlikely to drag in more than a couple smallish libraries - and those are usually where the core functionality lives (i.e. app is just a GUI shell over a library).
Until you have Gnome 3.0.1b453 or whatever and your app wants 3.0.1b567.
hmm.. looks like that might be a hidden settlement.
"Where I get this stuff" is an overview of reality. Please do not politic by omitting key numbers needed for scale and perspective, like Samsungs smartphone sales are currently $40B and rising with high margin. Parts sales are not only smaller, but have lower margin.
Unless Samsung wishes to forgo the consumer market (no indication of this), they need to fight for it, and sacrifice the parts market if need be. Better to use those parts in their own products.
So they are going to destroy a market worth a quarter (or more) of their own in the hopes that iPhone owners are going to buy their phones ? It just doesn't make sense. I'm also sure that destroying a competitor by price fixing or refusing to supply them is A) illegal in most of the western world B) would be frowned upon by all of Samsung's other customers who might start looking at alternative sources.
Any number of patents by other companies show similar drawings. Eg. : LG television receiver (rectangle with kickstand), Nokia Handset (rounded body with 2 buttons), etc. This is about the look of the device in general, not rounded corners specifically. Of course people have jumped to that conclusion because Apple devices on the outside are famously featureless (spartan in appearance) which in a technical drawing ends up looking like a rounded rectangle. This is why in the court case the jury did not rule exclusively based on the patent but was also shown a lot of the prototypes and design documents.
There are also patents on televisions that look like Sony's, handsets that look like Nokia's, tablets that look like Samsung's, etc., etc. It's industry SOP.
That has fuck-all to do with rounded corners. HTC (D617793) and Samsung (D641018) have similar patents to protect the look of their devices, as do most companies.
That doesn't mention "rounded corners" anywhere, that's the talking point the Andoid camp has turned it into. In fact you may want to scroll down that patent and look at the "referenced list" to see which companies registered patents similar to that one.
That argument was made in the court case against Samsung and dismissed by the jury. As it has been by anyone who has actually looked at the facts and the timeline of both those phones development.
These are the same dutch that managed to kill of the most jews of any of the occupied countries (75% vs 40% in other countries) and was a bloody tyrant for centuries in their colonies like Indonesia. Here's a dutch quote for you : "Als de vos de passie preekt, boer pas op je kippen" ("When the fox is preaching, take care of your chickens.")
If you're going to put an iPhone and one of Samsung phones in front of regular non-technical people with no horse in the race they are going to notice that they look suspiciously alike. Samsung would have to build a pretty strong, nearly airtight case to overcome a hurdle like that. Clearly they didn't. That's a jury trial, you're dealing with people not law evaluating robots.
Sure, 1B$ looks nice on the surface. But some victories are too costly (sow the seeds of final defeat) if they create and rally your opponents. HTC is one sign.
Thanks to activist shareholders, Apple cannot even settle for something reasonable (~100 M$ & xlicence) and will have the full slog ahead; including most likely losing supply of their high-res (RetinaTM) displays from Samsung. Do they have a second-source? From my PoV hi-res is the only Apple advantage -- software is fungible (but maybe not for the mass-market).
Yeah Samsung is going to risk billions in annual revenue and investments. Where do you people come up with this stuff ?
"Apple is said to increase its spend with its partner and archrival Samsung from the estimated current value of $9.7 billion to a staggering $11 billion in 2012 alone." source
"Samsung announced on Tuesday that it plans to spend about $4 billion to renovate its existing chip plant in Austin, Tex., where the company builds Apple's custom processors for the iPhone and iPad [...] The South Korean electronics maker already announced in June that it plans to build a new logic chip plant in its home country to better serve customers like Apple. That project is projected to cost 2.25 trillion won, or $1.98 billion." source
They did steal, Android just copied. The quote you refer to was a quote by Pablo Picasso by the way, an artist who did steal (read: was influenced by) ideas but also managed to turn those ideas into something that was uniquely his and different. That's the kind of "stealing" Jobs was referring to and it's of the level that Android, and certainly the likes of Samsung and HTC, have not attained.
That's rich since they're already paying Microsoft due to IP infringement (only after being sued, of course), as does Samsung and a host of other companies :
"Trefis cites earlier reports in noting that HTC pays Microsoft $10 per Android device and Samsung, which sold as many as 52 million smartphones into distribution channels last quarter, reportedly pays between $12 and $13 per device."
And now you're safely protected behind the walls of a demonstrably evil company's garden
*eyeroll* Ok, now we've got the zealotry out of the way...
Anyway, having a choice has always meant there were better as well as worse options to choose from; your generalization of the open source scene as being "drama queen bulshit" (based on what, Gnome's shark-jump?) is poor attempt at a strawman to say the least.
FOSS is rife with ideological battles and personal attacks that do little to nothing for end users. Gnome 1 vs KDE 1, Xorg vs XFree86, GPL2 vs GPL3, OpenOffice.org vs LibreOffice,... And just look at the vitriol thrown at De Icaza in the comments.
Hell, when I got stuck with a 32bit MB Pro (did have to love that illuminated keyboard), I made it my bitch with a quick application of Mint 12 LXDE. Garden wall, meet Terex Titan.:)
If it works for you, more power to you. Hell, I'm staring at a Solaris workstation with Sun's Java Desktop franken-gnome right now at work. It's OK for what it does but woefully inadequate for me for my needs and wants at home. To each his own.
iOS jailbreaks typically use Cydia, which is a frontend for APT.
Cydia IS apt, it's also a slow annoying POS that does suffer from all the problems the IOS and Mac app stores doesn't have ("Oh you want to install a new app. Let me just sit here unresponsive for 5 minutes while I download package updates and update my repositories.") . I haven't heard a single jailbreaker ever defend Cydia as a good piece of software, in fact most were pretty pissed off when Cydia took over rival Rock.
Are you saying it belongs on the server, and practically speaking, the smartphone (app stores are essentially package managers, just generally less powerful), but not on the desktop?
App stores just deliver self-contained app folders. That's about as far from the Linux definition of a package manager you can get.
Also, while sometimes an app may have a large amount of dependencies, on average, the install is less than the minimal install of other operating systems, and on average, it's a significantly smaller download when you want a single program. You could probably install 2 or 3 DEs with a smaller install size than Windows.
I dispute this and anyone who has ever installed an app knows how it really goes: you want to upgrade an app and instead of just downloading a small file, you get to upgrade half the gnome packages and assorted libraries along with them. Sure the application itself may be nominally smaller but you have to download a shitton of crap before you can install it.
Let me put it this way. Windows has "DLL hell", Linux has "dependency hell" and the mac and iOS have... ?
I hear it over and over -- I'd run Linux if I could play games.
That didn't stop OS X from growing, even though the mac is (or rather was) notoriously lacking in the games department. In fact OS X is only now getting serious attention from game studios by riding on the coattails of its more popular little brother IOS.
Except that OSX "stole" a large part of Linux' target audience (on the desktop side of things) and has thus stunted its potential growth. Mac laptops are quite popular in the developer and sysadmin world.
Package management is part of the problem. You can smear as much lipstick as you want on that pig, it has no place on a desktop OS. The only reason Linux needs it at all is because every developer out there is absolutely determined to include the most obscure libraries he can find and include them in his app (incidentally also negating the reuse advantage libraries were originally built for.) When installing a simple app requires you to download hundreds of megs worth of libraries and upgrade half your GUI environment something's amiss.
Like many other geeks I think I looked at Linux desktops back in the Gnome 1 days and thought "Hey, this thing will be really nice in a couple of years when it's finished." Fast forward a coupe of years, a lot of infighting and a rewrite later and I was still thinking that or would have I hadn't lost all faith that these guys could ever produce anything to rival commercial GUI's. So now I'm a mac user and I get all that UNIX-y goodness and none of the open source drama queen bullshit.
Slashdot Mirror
They were already losing money, the Fire is (was?) a loss leader for Amazon. Hard to drop the price if you're already selling at a loss.
If you didn't want to deal with the bandwidth to upgrade Gnome, then why did you install/use it?
Classic case of blaming the user. On any other modern OS the user doesn't need to take this kind of nonsense under consideration.
BTW when I do use *BSD or Linux desktops I'm more of an XFCE man.
Mac and iOS just hide all the details from you. DLL and dependency hell are still there, they just are Apple's problem, not yours. I simply prefer control over simplicity but for most consumers they prefer simplicity. Thank the magic sky wizard there are more than two closed-source choices for those of use than want to DIY.
In OSX the details that need to be hidden are hidden because most people buy computers to get something done not to fiddle with the innards. That control you talk of is mostly illusionary. It's like muscle car owners: sure they may have "complete control" over their car's engine, being able to tweak every little thing but it comes at the expense of usability and practicality. In the end it's masturbatory, it serves no other purpose than its own sake.
No it's not. Windows broken security was. OS X hasn't got an official package manager and has had about the same problems with malware as Linux has had, that is to say close to none.
Which is precisely why people are upset that a patent was granted for the "featureless" design. It creates a patent that is way too generic/broad.
Simplicity isn't easy, it just looks easy. That it took apple to wipe away all that cruft is evidence enough of that. If it truly were generic someone would have done it before.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
E.F. Schumacher
Nah I just thought that quote was so ridiculously out of proportion I'd inject some reality. After all we're talking about a company winning a court case before a jury of its peers in what is still a democratic nation. To turn that into "a people who give in to tyrants" is more than a little hyperbolic. That I got to rag on the dutch was just a happy coincidence, though as you rightfully point out my people sure aren't any better.
You do realize that all those hundreds of megs worth of libraries also exist on Windows and OS X, they just ship in the box with the OS?
Yep, and on OS X developers use mostly the OS provided libraries while on Linux they pull in all kinds of obscure stuff (how many friggin' XML parsers need to be installed on a system ?)
(which, coincidentally, is why you can have Linux without any GUI at all, but not the other two)
OSX without a GUI exists, it's called Darwin. There have been several implementations even, people just don't care about it.
And, of course, there are plenty of Linux distros that also include all that stuff in the box. If you install a typical desktop app from a package in Ubuntu, it's unlikely to drag in more than a couple smallish libraries - and those are usually where the core functionality lives (i.e. app is just a GUI shell over a library).
Until you have Gnome 3.0.1b453 or whatever and your app wants 3.0.1b567.
hmm .. looks like that might be a hidden settlement.
"Where I get this stuff" is an overview of reality. Please do not politic by omitting key numbers needed for scale and perspective, like Samsungs smartphone sales are currently $40B and rising with high margin. Parts sales are not only smaller, but have lower margin.
Unless Samsung wishes to forgo the consumer market (no indication of this), they need to fight for it, and sacrifice the parts market if need be. Better to use those parts in their own products.
So they are going to destroy a market worth a quarter (or more) of their own in the hopes that iPhone owners are going to buy their phones ? It just doesn't make sense. I'm also sure that destroying a competitor by price fixing or refusing to supply them is A) illegal in most of the western world B) would be frowned upon by all of Samsung's other customers who might start looking at alternative sources.
Any number of patents by other companies show similar drawings. Eg. : LG television receiver (rectangle with kickstand), Nokia Handset (rounded body with 2 buttons), etc. This is about the look of the device in general, not rounded corners specifically. Of course people have jumped to that conclusion because Apple devices on the outside are famously featureless (spartan in appearance) which in a technical drawing ends up looking like a rounded rectangle. This is why in the court case the jury did not rule exclusively based on the patent but was also shown a lot of the prototypes and design documents.
There are also patents on televisions that look like Sony's, handsets that look like Nokia's, tablets that look like Samsung's, etc., etc. It's industry SOP.
That has fuck-all to do with rounded corners. HTC (D617793) and Samsung (D641018) have similar patents to protect the look of their devices, as do most companies.
That doesn't mention "rounded corners" anywhere, that's the talking point the Andoid camp has turned it into. In fact you may want to scroll down that patent and look at the "referenced list" to see which companies registered patents similar to that one.
That argument was made in the court case against Samsung and dismissed by the jury. As it has been by anyone who has actually looked at the facts and the timeline of both those phones development.
These are the same dutch that managed to kill of the most jews of any of the occupied countries (75% vs 40% in other countries) and was a bloody tyrant for centuries in their colonies like Indonesia. Here's a dutch quote for you : "Als de vos de passie preekt, boer pas op je kippen" ("When the fox is preaching, take care of your chickens.")
If you're going to put an iPhone and one of Samsung phones in front of regular non-technical people with no horse in the race they are going to notice that they look suspiciously alike. Samsung would have to build a pretty strong, nearly airtight case to overcome a hurdle like that. Clearly they didn't. That's a jury trial, you're dealing with people not law evaluating robots.
Sure, 1B$ looks nice on the surface. But some victories are too costly (sow the seeds of final defeat) if they create and rally your opponents. HTC is one sign.
Thanks to activist shareholders, Apple cannot even settle for something reasonable (~100 M$ & xlicence) and will have the full slog ahead; including most likely losing supply of their high-res (RetinaTM) displays from Samsung. Do they have a second-source? From my PoV hi-res is the only Apple advantage -- software is fungible (but maybe not for the mass-market).
Yeah Samsung is going to risk billions in annual revenue and investments. Where do you people come up with this stuff ?
"Apple is said to increase its spend with its partner and archrival Samsung from the estimated current value of $9.7 billion to a staggering $11 billion in 2012 alone."
source
"Samsung announced on Tuesday that it plans to spend about $4 billion to renovate its existing chip plant in Austin, Tex., where the company builds Apple's custom processors for the iPhone and iPad
[...]
The South Korean electronics maker already announced in June that it plans to build a new logic chip plant in its home country to better serve customers like Apple. That project is projected to cost 2.25 trillion won, or $1.98 billion."
source
They did steal, Android just copied. The quote you refer to was a quote by Pablo Picasso by the way, an artist who did steal (read: was influenced by) ideas but also managed to turn those ideas into something that was uniquely his and different. That's the kind of "stealing" Jobs was referring to and it's of the level that Android, and certainly the likes of Samsung and HTC, have not attained.
That's rich since they're already paying Microsoft due to IP infringement (only after being sued, of course), as does Samsung and a host of other companies :
"Trefis cites earlier reports in noting that HTC pays Microsoft $10 per Android device and Samsung, which sold as many as 52 million smartphones into distribution channels last quarter, reportedly pays between $12 and $13 per device."
And now you're safely protected behind the walls of a demonstrably evil company's garden
*eyeroll* Ok, now we've got the zealotry out of the way ...
Anyway, having a choice has always meant there were better as well as worse options to choose from; your generalization of the open source scene as being "drama queen bulshit" (based on what, Gnome's shark-jump?) is poor attempt at a strawman to say the least.
FOSS is rife with ideological battles and personal attacks that do little to nothing for end users. Gnome 1 vs KDE 1, Xorg vs XFree86, GPL2 vs GPL3, OpenOffice.org vs LibreOffice, ... And just look at the vitriol thrown at De Icaza in the comments.
Hell, when I got stuck with a 32bit MB Pro (did have to love that illuminated keyboard), I made it my bitch with a quick application of Mint 12 LXDE. Garden wall, meet Terex Titan. :)
If it works for you, more power to you. Hell, I'm staring at a Solaris workstation with Sun's Java Desktop franken-gnome right now at work. It's OK for what it does but woefully inadequate for me for my needs and wants at home. To each his own.
iOS jailbreaks typically use Cydia, which is a frontend for APT.
Cydia IS apt, it's also a slow annoying POS that does suffer from all the problems the IOS and Mac app stores doesn't have ("Oh you want to install a new app. Let me just sit here unresponsive for 5 minutes while I download package updates and update my repositories.") . I haven't heard a single jailbreaker ever defend Cydia as a good piece of software, in fact most were pretty pissed off when Cydia took over rival Rock.
You are an idiot.
Starting off with an insult, always a good sign.
Are you saying it belongs on the server, and practically speaking, the smartphone (app stores are essentially package managers, just generally less powerful), but not on the desktop?
App stores just deliver self-contained app folders. That's about as far from the Linux definition of a package manager you can get.
Also, while sometimes an app may have a large amount of dependencies, on average, the install is less than the minimal install of other operating systems, and on average, it's a significantly smaller download when you want a single program. You could probably install 2 or 3 DEs with a smaller install size than Windows.
I dispute this and anyone who has ever installed an app knows how it really goes: you want to upgrade an app and instead of just downloading a small file, you get to upgrade half the gnome packages and assorted libraries along with them. Sure the application itself may be nominally smaller but you have to download a shitton of crap before you can install it.
Let me put it this way. Windows has "DLL hell", Linux has "dependency hell" and the mac and iOS have ... ?
I hear it over and over -- I'd run Linux if I could play games.
That didn't stop OS X from growing, even though the mac is (or rather was) notoriously lacking in the games department. In fact OS X is only now getting serious attention from game studios by riding on the coattails of its more popular little brother IOS.
Except that OSX "stole" a large part of Linux' target audience (on the desktop side of things) and has thus stunted its potential growth. Mac laptops are quite popular in the developer and sysadmin world.
Package management is part of the problem. You can smear as much lipstick as you want on that pig, it has no place on a desktop OS. The only reason Linux needs it at all is because every developer out there is absolutely determined to include the most obscure libraries he can find and include them in his app (incidentally also negating the reuse advantage libraries were originally built for.) When installing a simple app requires you to download hundreds of megs worth of libraries and upgrade half your GUI environment something's amiss.
Like many other geeks I think I looked at Linux desktops back in the Gnome 1 days and thought "Hey, this thing will be really nice in a couple of years when it's finished." Fast forward a coupe of years, a lot of infighting and a rewrite later and I was still thinking that or would have I hadn't lost all faith that these guys could ever produce anything to rival commercial GUI's. So now I'm a mac user and I get all that UNIX-y goodness and none of the open source drama queen bullshit.
The LG Prada connection came up in the trial and the jury didn't buy it, as most people haven't except Androis evangelists.