Have you guys *READ* the BSD license? It has never forced source code to be published. In fact this is the fundamental issue between the BSD license and GPL camps. I am shocked and dismayed to see how many uneducated comments have been made in this thread about the BSD license requiring source code to be published.
Regarding the question of "Can it really be OSX running on the iPhone?", it seems pretty obvious to me. If the iPhone is indeed an ARM chip, then I would *assume* Apple has ported Darwin to this chip. Look at NetBSD for a second. It supports a ton of different ARM chips and platforms. It even supports a *26bit* ARM cpu. (NetBSD/acorn26)
Apple could very easily port Darwin to ARM. Let's assume they have. I still think of my MacBook Pro as running "Mac OSX" even when I have booted it *single user* to the point where I am running Darwin + init + shell and nothing else.
It is a bit of a stretch for Apple to call Darwin "OSX" if they only ported the kernel, but I would believe they have ported significant portions of the higher level OS functionality. E.g. graphics libraries, window server, etc. This is more than enough to call it OSX, even if it is not 100% source compatible with OSX on my Intel machine.
After all my latest and greatest MacOSX 10.4.8 application source code wouldn't work on 10.0 PPC, but 10.0 PPC is *still* OSX no matter what you might think.
It is the "development release", also known as "-current" and it is available as source code from the CVS repository. You will also be able to get it shortly from ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-current/tar _files/ as source tarballs.
There will be binary snapshots on ftp.netbsd.org soon. They are always in ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/arch/{alpha,i386,s parc,etc}/snapshot/
Where are the Free ISO images of OpenBSD?
on
NetBSD 1.5ZB
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· Score: 1
Theo,
I think you're here bashing NetBSD because you can't handle the competition. If you were truely confident in your position that "NetBSD has reached its endgame" you wouldn't need to preach to the Slashdot community, you would just sit quietly and wait. Instead you're here bashing NetBSD since, in my opinion, you're AFRAID to lose.
For all your talk of security, your product seems to have just as many holes, or more, as anyone else's product. While you're busy beating your... chest, NetBSD is busy beating OpenBSD.
You won't make ISO images available apparently because you don't want to lose your only source of income. Meanwhile NetBSD makes ISO images available for many ports, and also creates ISO images of tons of prebuilt packages for NetBSD/i386. How is that for competition?
Oh, and I think I even coined the term "OpenBSD" for you. Look it up on the original NetBSD (port-sparc) mailing lists if you don't believe me.
The real question is whether Linux supports USB slave mode, rather than just host / master mode.
Check
this site for an example.
Basically my understanding of this question is:
"Can Linux act as a USB slave, and provide a slave or 'target' implementation of the USB Mass Storage Class?"
In other words, can I build a fancy MP3 box with lots of storage that appears to be a USB hard drive to the host PC, but is really a Linux machine pretending to be "just" a USB hard disk?
USB slave drivers and an Open Source implementation of the slave side of the USB Mass Storage Class would be cool.
The only drivers for maple bus peripherals are for the keyboard.
The framework is there to add your own though.
I would bet a mouse will be supported soon also.
TV out works, as the pvr driver doesn't really differentiate between the TV and VGA box. (yet)
There is no sound support yet, and I don't of any XFree86 driver for the PowerVR2 chipset.
The dreamcast hackers out there have info though, so someone just needs to write a driver.:-)
This is definitely for real. I have my dreamcast up and running NetBSD. There are still a couple of stability problems with the pmap code, but right now they are usually only triggered in the compiler. (e.g. when running a self-hosted compiler)
I will see about taking a picture with my digital camera. So what would it take to convince anyone?
So, if you want to test boot yours, just for fun, go to the following URL: NetBSD rocks!
I have yet to see a solution for using a video card with TV out. I have an older TNT with video out, but I don't know of anything to enable TV out under XFree86. Anybody??
Perhaps we can get the makers of "tvtool" to port it..:-)
While a hardware decoder would be ideal, a software decoder would be a nice start, but first I need TV out.
Definitely true, but isky doesn't have their service anywhere near rollout. They keep pushing the date back, now it is early 2002! They claim they will have a ethernet based satellite device that will support up to eight networked devices. So that would be even better. I guess I just need to up and move to DSL country!
Actually if you go to their site they mention that a USB version will be available eventually. So until your company is offering the same service in my area, I will be looking at these guys.:-)
Also, have your considered FreeBSD at all, it may offer advantages that you havn't looked at. FreeBSD can also run Linux and Solaris binaries if that helps at all.
FreeBSD doesn't have a sparc port yet. (in progress though) Perhaps you're thinking of NetBSD/sparc64 instead. Note that this is still a work in progress. Regardless, with the "soft dependencies" support under NetBSD, the small files issue is resolved, without needing to run the filesystem in async mode.
Have you considered the "cachefs" support in Solaris? I'm not really familiar with it, but I've seen references to using it for something like this.
According to the documentation (xlnetwork.pdf) on www.gcctech.com the queue is "EliteXL", but the "internal lpd" only works if you have a hard drive on the printer. Otherwise you can use their print filters. Using a newish lpd you can send data directly to the raw tcp port (3300 for raw, 3302 for ascii) using 'lp=3300@1.2.3.4' in/etc/printcap.
Considering they support a web frontend and lpd, you shouldn't need an NT server for these!
Where is the ad? What magazine, website, etc? Or is it a Dell flyer?
Also, considering some of the huge sites running FreeBSD, I wonder how Windows/IIS would do against FreeBSD/apache? I'm not saying the free stuff has to win, I'm saying it has to be better, cheaper, and *faster* on a dollar for dollar basis.
I.e. if the Windows/IIS 1M hits solution was, for example, $50,000, but that was $25,000 of hardware plus $25,000 of software. Perhaps the free solution (FreeBSD/apache, yahoo & hotmail can't be wrong.:) would be $35,000 in hardware for the same 1M hits, but the software would be $0 so the "extra" couple of machines would be no big deal.
Hell I would rather have to manage a rack of 40 1U BSD boxes than 10 Windows servers! (considering the nightmare of remote access for just the first issue I have with Windows) So even if the free stuff was 25-50 percent of the speed of Windows, I would be willing to have the extra machines.:-)
I don't think Linux or BSD has to consistently beat Windows in squeezing every last drop of performance out of the box, sometimes it is just not going to happen. But Linux or BSD needs to be able to consistently provide better performance at a better price. If this means a slighter higher investment in hardware, this will almost always be offset by the $0 software investment. All of this without even considering the stability, manageability, remote administration, etc, etc that makes Linux or BSD so much more powerful!
A baby router with an integrated CSU/DSU is probably what you want. Then you have the option of routing IP or bridging traffic. (depending on the router you buy) It could also act as a DHCP server, NAT box, etc which might be useful.
A cisco 1720 with integrated CSU/DSU is about $2200 list price.
Or, buy a synchronous PCI card with integrated CSU/DSU (~$600) and install it in your demo server.
If you're just using a laptop, perhaps one of the docking stations with a PCI slot would be workable. Dell has these.
This would require drivers under your OS, etc so it would probably be more of a hassle than just integrating the CSU/DSU into the router. Also with the router you can hook anything to it, and you don't have to worry about having drivers, etc for your OS.
Re:Wow... a *BSD ported to x86, that's impressive.
on
Darwin Booting On x86
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· Score: 2
Really? Can you get full unrestricted access to the complete code base of MacOSX? What license is it under? you don't have to do one of those cheesy as "web form registor for free" crap do you?
Only Darwin is available under the Apple source license. Darwin is the MacOSX kernel, so you don't get any GUI or any of the fancy stuff.:-)
Yes you need to signup on Apple's webpage to get access, but I didn't see any cheese involved.
Re:Wow... a *BSD ported to x86, that's impressive.
on
Darwin Booting On x86
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· Score: 2
I'll admit that getting the apple only code working is a little impressive, but we've got Linux for everything from the Compaq Ipaq to massive multiprocessor alphas, so I am not terribly thrilled that one commercial company got something of theirs cross platform, for FreeBSD is almost a spread as Linux...
"...almost [as] spread as linux..." ???
Don't you mean NetBSD?
NetBSD is running on around 30 different platforms, while FreeBSD is running on i386 & Alpha.
Oh sh;t I am also "aiding and abetting" criminal activities. If only I hadn't not held the door for the guy leaving the sporting goods store with his purchases in a brown paper bag. How was I to know he was a *freaking psycho* who had some ammunition in his bag and went out to shoot people.
Geez, now I gotta do a background check on the people I "help" by holding a door, or something. Oh man, I might have let that child molester cut in line ahead of me since he only had a candybar and I had a cart full of stuff.
Crap, crap, crap. I guess the lawyers will be coming to arrest me, since they're the only ones that think I have broken the law.
The "big guys" you mentioned (yahoo, hotmail, etc) use BSD and apache. I would recommend the same.
Vague rambling:
Use multiple NFS (or CODA?) servers on the backend. All of the web servers (N seperate machines) would mount "/webspace" or something from each NFS server. (probably a soft mount, or via CODA) You need to specify all of the server mounts via apache "UserDir" directives so it will search for the user's homepage correctly.
If the NFS servers also crossmount then they can be FTP servers as well and be able to access any user's home directory. Then you just list all of the NFS servers in a DNS round robin for "ftp.blah" and the WEB servers in a round robin for 'www.blah' and it should work.:-)
I agree with your statement that breaking even is a good start, but I don't agree that supporting Linux means _selling_ a Linux specific version.
In my opinion it is perfectly acceptable for these game companies to port the game to Linux and allow the executable to be downloaded, while shipping the Win32 CDROMs to the stores.
As long as there is some mechanism in there to count the number of people that bought the Win32 version so they could play the Linux version, I think this could work for many companies. (and it already is of course)
Perhaps one of the reasons for the limp sales of the Linux only version of Q3A was the fact that it cost more than the Win32 version due to the fancy packaging. Again the publisher could have just as easily made this game a Win32/Linux version by including _both_ executables on the same CD.
I guess the real problem is there is no way to guage the market. If thousands of Linux users download the UT executable it doesn't matter because they still get counted as a Win32 sale when they buy the Win32 version at the local store. This is perhaps a problem that needs to be solved first before the suits at certain publishers will actually take notice of the Linux market.
Well the number one reason I didn't buy a Linux copy for Quake III Arena, was the (IMHO) stupid delay that was built into the release.
I recall that the Linux version was ready to go at the same time as the Win32 version, but it was deliberately delayed until _after_ Christmas. (I believe the 26th?)
Here I was just after release date of Q3A, standing in front of a Win32 copy at Staples, and _knowing_ I couldn't find a Linux copy on the shelves, or even order it for weeks!
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid! So I have two copies of the Win32 version, and zero copies of the Linux version. Even though I would have preferred to have one of each, or even both Linux. (I run the Linux version under NetBSD)
So in "protecting the win32 market" or whatever the reason was, the Linux market was killed, right from the _very beginning_ with Q3A.
If you have ever read The BSDLicense then you would know you most certainly cannot remove the BSD license and release the code under the GPL with a "readme" that credits the original BSD licese.
This would be a copyright violation.
Looking at the first clause is all that is necessary:
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
I suppose if you distribute the code via Napster the copyright doesn't matter.:-)
It seems to me it would be quite nice to have a fully bootable game CD. Certainly it should not _require_ rebooting from the CD, but only allow it. The technical problem would be getting all of the various hardware support lined up and on the CD without taking up too much space. Still it would be nifty having a "game console" that is just a book PC with plenty of RAM, a fast CPU and graphics card, and an ethernet. No hard drive required.:-)
It does seem to have a somewhat limited usefullness though.:( But, what about the people that aren't running Linux or Windows, but BeOS or BSD, OS/2 (ha!) etc? They would be able to play games that were unusable for them in the past.
How many Linux users would like having a version of that would boot just enough of Windows via CD to play the game? Man, I would love to be able to boot a copy of Motorcross Madness (for example) without having to dedicate a partition and a Windows 98 license to a _game_. And wouldn't it be awesome to boot the game on whatever machine I want regardless of having Windows 98 or Linux or whatever on the machine. Sadly this doesn't seem very practical.
Still, you could come up with a game kernel that can use a few MB on a FAT16/32, EXT2FS, FFS, whatever partition to store updated drivers and settings. (or even a floppy! (ok LS120)) Then you basically use a small bit of disk space for nonvolatile storage and updates, new drivers, etc which extends the reach of the game.
Uhmm, you'll notice that my machine is #1, and it is running NetBSD. The closest machine (a FreeBSD one) is over a year behind. You'll also notice that BSD is holding the top four spots, and five of the top six. This says _something_ about BSD, whether it is a valuable data point or not you will have to decide. It is funny that the article you reference galloped on with the idea that FreeBSD was #1 when anyone that bothered to look would see the truth. Oh well, welcome to slashdot! Oh, and there is a picture of the machine (yeah boring) over at my site.
Slashdot Mirror
Have you guys *READ* the BSD license? It has never forced source code to be published. In fact this is the fundamental issue between the BSD license and GPL camps. I am shocked and dismayed to see how many uneducated comments have been made in this thread about the BSD license requiring source code to be published.
Regarding the question of "Can it really be OSX running on the iPhone?", it seems pretty obvious to me. If the iPhone is indeed an ARM chip, then I would *assume* Apple has ported Darwin to this chip. Look at NetBSD for a second. It supports a ton of different ARM chips and platforms. It even supports a *26bit* ARM cpu. (NetBSD/acorn26)
Apple could very easily port Darwin to ARM. Let's assume they have. I still think of my MacBook Pro as running "Mac OSX" even when I have booted it *single user* to the point where I am running Darwin + init + shell and nothing else.
It is a bit of a stretch for Apple to call Darwin "OSX" if they only ported the kernel, but I would believe they have ported significant portions of the higher level OS functionality. E.g. graphics libraries, window server, etc. This is more than enough to call it OSX, even if it is not 100% source compatible with OSX on my Intel machine.
After all my latest and greatest MacOSX 10.4.8 application source code wouldn't work on 10.0 PPC, but 10.0 PPC is *still* OSX no matter what you might think.
It is the "development release", also known as "-current" and it is available as source code from the CVS repository. You will also be able to get it shortly from ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-current/tar _files/ as source tarballs.
s parc,etc}/snapshot/
There will be binary snapshots on ftp.netbsd.org soon. They are always in ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/arch/{alpha,i386,
Theo,
I think you're here bashing NetBSD because you can't handle the competition. If you were truely confident in your position that "NetBSD has reached its endgame" you wouldn't need to preach to the Slashdot community, you would just sit quietly and wait. Instead you're here bashing NetBSD since, in my opinion, you're AFRAID to lose.
For all your talk of security, your product seems to have just as many holes, or more, as anyone else's product. While you're busy beating your... chest, NetBSD is busy beating OpenBSD.
You won't make ISO images available apparently because you don't want to lose your only source of income. Meanwhile NetBSD makes ISO images available for many ports, and also creates ISO images of tons of prebuilt packages for NetBSD/i386. How is that for competition?
Oh, and I think I even coined the term "OpenBSD" for you. Look it up on the original NetBSD (port-sparc) mailing lists if you don't believe me.
Well that is a rather useFREE post.
Basically my understanding of this question is:
"Can Linux act as a USB slave, and provide a slave or 'target' implementation of the USB Mass Storage Class?"
In other words, can I build a fancy MP3 box with lots of storage that appears to be a USB hard drive to the host PC, but is really a Linux machine pretending to be "just" a USB hard disk?
USB slave drivers and an Open Source implementation of the slave side of the USB Mass Storage Class would be cool.
Looks like it has 5 x 64bit PCI slots, and the four DIMM sockets are slanted, perfect for a 1U case.
The only drivers for maple bus peripherals are for the keyboard. The framework is there to add your own though. I would bet a mouse will be supported soon also. TV out works, as the pvr driver doesn't really differentiate between the TV and VGA box. (yet) There is no sound support yet, and I don't of any XFree86 driver for the PowerVR2 chipset. The dreamcast hackers out there have info though, so someone just needs to write a driver. :-)
This is definitely for real. I have my dreamcast up and running NetBSD. There are still a couple of stability problems with the pmap code, but right now they are usually only triggered in the compiler. (e.g. when running a self-hosted compiler)
I will see about taking a picture with my digital camera. So what would it take to convince anyone?
So, if you want to test boot yours, just for fun, go to the following URL:
NetBSD rocks!
Perhaps we can get the makers of "tvtool" to port it.. :-)
While a hardware decoder would be ideal, a software decoder would be a nice start, but first I need TV out.
Definitely true, but isky doesn't have their service anywhere near rollout. They keep pushing the date back, now it is early 2002! They claim they will have a ethernet based satellite device that will support up to eight networked devices. So that would be even better. I guess I just need to up and move to DSL country!
Actually if you go to their site they mention that a USB version will be available eventually. So until your company is offering the same service in my area, I will be looking at these guys. :-)
FreeBSD doesn't have a sparc port yet. (in progress though) Perhaps you're thinking of NetBSD/sparc64 instead. Note that this is still a work in progress. Regardless, with the "soft dependencies" support under NetBSD, the small files issue is resolved, without needing to run the filesystem in async mode.
Have you considered the "cachefs" support in Solaris? I'm not really familiar with it, but I've seen references to using it for something like this.
It supports what you have asked for.
I've used it for just throttling and latency, but it supports packet dropping as well. Check it out.
According to the documentation (xlnetwork.pdf) on www.gcctech.com the queue is "EliteXL", but the "internal lpd" only works if you have a hard drive on the printer. Otherwise you can use their print filters. Using a newish lpd you can send data directly to the raw tcp port (3300 for raw, 3302 for ascii) using 'lp=3300@1.2.3.4' in /etc/printcap.
Considering they support a web frontend and lpd, you shouldn't need an NT server for these!
Also, considering some of the huge sites running FreeBSD, I wonder how Windows/IIS would do against FreeBSD/apache? I'm not saying the free stuff has to win, I'm saying it has to be better, cheaper, and *faster* on a dollar for dollar basis.
I.e. if the Windows/IIS 1M hits solution was, for example, $50,000, but that was $25,000 of hardware plus $25,000 of software. Perhaps the free solution (FreeBSD/apache, yahoo & hotmail can't be wrong. :) would be $35,000 in hardware for the same 1M hits, but the software would be $0 so the "extra" couple of machines would be no big deal.
Hell I would rather have to manage a rack of 40 1U BSD boxes than 10 Windows servers! (considering the nightmare of remote access for just the first issue I have with Windows) So even if the free stuff was 25-50 percent of the speed of Windows, I would be willing to have the extra machines. :-)
I don't think Linux or BSD has to consistently beat Windows in squeezing every last drop of performance out of the box, sometimes it is just not going to happen. But Linux or BSD needs to be able to consistently provide better performance at a better price. If this means a slighter higher investment in hardware, this will almost always be offset by the $0 software investment. All of this without even considering the stability, manageability, remote administration, etc, etc that makes Linux or BSD so much more powerful!
A baby router with an integrated CSU/DSU is probably what you want. Then you have the option of routing IP or bridging traffic. (depending on the router you buy) It could also act as a DHCP server, NAT box, etc which might be useful.
A cisco 1720 with integrated CSU/DSU is about $2200 list price.
Or, buy a synchronous PCI card with integrated CSU/DSU (~$600) and install it in your demo server.
If you're just using a laptop, perhaps one of the docking stations with a PCI slot would be workable. Dell has these.
This would require drivers under your OS, etc so it would probably be more of a hassle than just integrating the CSU/DSU into the router. Also with the router you can hook anything to it, and you don't have to worry about having drivers, etc for your OS.
Only Darwin is available under the Apple source license. Darwin is the MacOSX kernel, so you don't get any GUI or any of the fancy stuff. :-)
Yes you need to signup on Apple's webpage to get access, but I didn't see any cheese involved.
"...almost [as] spread as linux..." ???
Don't you mean NetBSD?
NetBSD is running on around 30 different platforms, while FreeBSD is running on i386 & Alpha.
Oh sh;t I am also "aiding and abetting" criminal activities. If only I hadn't not held the door for the guy leaving the sporting goods store with his purchases in a brown paper bag. How was I to know he was a *freaking psycho* who had some ammunition in his bag and went out to shoot people.
Geez, now I gotta do a background check on the people I "help" by holding a door, or something. Oh man, I might have let that child molester cut in line ahead of me since he only had a candybar and I had a cart full of stuff.
Crap, crap, crap. I guess the lawyers will be coming to arrest me, since they're the only ones that think I have broken the law.
Vague rambling: :-)
Use multiple NFS (or CODA?) servers on the backend. All of the web servers (N seperate machines) would mount "/webspace" or something from each NFS server. (probably a soft mount, or via CODA) You need to specify all of the server mounts via apache "UserDir" directives so it will search for the user's homepage correctly.
If the NFS servers also crossmount then they can be FTP servers as well and be able to access any user's home directory. Then you just list all of the NFS servers in a DNS round robin for "ftp.blah" and the WEB servers in a round robin for 'www.blah' and it should work.
I agree with your statement that breaking even is a good start, but I don't agree that supporting Linux means _selling_ a Linux specific version.
In my opinion it is perfectly acceptable for these game companies to port the game to Linux and allow the executable to be downloaded, while shipping the Win32 CDROMs to the stores.
As long as there is some mechanism in there to count the number of people that bought the Win32 version so they could play the Linux version, I think this could work for many companies. (and it already is of course)
Perhaps one of the reasons for the limp sales of the Linux only version of Q3A was the fact that it cost more than the Win32 version due to the fancy packaging. Again the publisher could have just as easily made this game a Win32/Linux version by including _both_ executables on the same CD.
I guess the real problem is there is no way to guage the market. If thousands of Linux users download the UT executable it doesn't matter because they still get counted as a Win32 sale when they buy the Win32 version at the local store. This is perhaps a problem that needs to be solved first before the suits at certain publishers will actually take notice of the Linux market.
Well the number one reason I didn't buy a Linux copy for Quake III Arena, was the (IMHO) stupid delay that was built into the release.
I recall that the Linux version was ready to go at the same time as the Win32 version, but it was deliberately delayed until _after_ Christmas. (I believe the 26th?)
Here I was just after release date of Q3A, standing in front of a Win32 copy at Staples, and _knowing_ I couldn't find a Linux copy on the shelves, or even order it for weeks!
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid! So I have two copies of the Win32 version, and zero copies of the Linux version. Even though I would have preferred to have one of each, or even both Linux. (I run the Linux version under NetBSD)
So in "protecting the win32 market" or whatever the reason was, the Linux market was killed, right from the _very beginning_ with Q3A.
This would be a copyright violation.
Looking at the first clause is all that is necessary:
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
I suppose if you distribute the code via Napster the copyright doesn't matter. :-)
It seems to me it would be quite nice to have a fully bootable game CD. Certainly it should not _require_ rebooting from the CD, but only allow it. The technical problem would be getting all of the various hardware support lined up and on the CD without taking up too much space. Still it would be nifty having a "game console" that is just a book PC with plenty of RAM, a fast CPU and graphics card, and an ethernet. No hard drive required. :-)
:( But, what about the people that aren't running Linux or Windows, but BeOS or BSD, OS/2 (ha!) etc? They would be able to play games that were unusable for them in the past.
It does seem to have a somewhat limited usefullness though.
How many Linux users would like having a version of that would boot just enough of Windows via CD to play the game? Man, I would love to be able to boot a copy of Motorcross Madness (for example) without having to dedicate a partition and a Windows 98 license to a _game_. And wouldn't it be awesome to boot the game on whatever machine I want regardless of having Windows 98 or Linux or whatever on the machine. Sadly this doesn't seem very practical.
Still, you could come up with a game kernel that can use a few MB on a FAT16/32, EXT2FS, FFS, whatever partition to store updated drivers and settings. (or even a floppy! (ok LS120)) Then you basically use a small bit of disk space for nonvolatile storage and updates, new drivers, etc which extends the reach of the game.
Uhmm, you'll notice that my machine is #1, and it is running NetBSD.
The closest machine (a FreeBSD one) is over a year behind. You'll also notice that BSD is holding the top four spots, and five of the top six.
This says _something_ about BSD, whether it is a valuable data point or not you will have to decide.
It is funny that the article you reference galloped on with the idea that FreeBSD was #1 when anyone that bothered to look would see the truth.
Oh well, welcome to slashdot!
Oh, and there is a picture of the machine (yeah boring) over at my site.