Slashdot Mirror
Linux Games Not Selling
Patrick McAllister was one of the folks who wrote to us about
a report talking with John Carmack [?] regarding id's sales of Linux games. Apparently, it's been pretty absymal - enough to cover costs, but "they wouldn't make a bean-counter blink". I wonder what Loki's experience has been.
I've tried running some games like the Q3 demo on my linux system. I've never been able to get it to run. I keep on getting "GL subsystem" errors or something like that. I've tried installing utah-glx and others, but I've never been able to get it to work. I'm sure I would have bought quake 3 for linux if I had gotten this to work, but I've never been able to do it.
:)
In order to sell more linux games, they need to make it MUCH easier to get all the related packages set up.
Maybe my new graphics card (with a different chipset) will let me get this working
You've got to be kidding if you're taking this troll seriously.
:-)
However, if it will motivate you to never do another windows title again, I'll never hire to you to work on a game for me because you admitted the existence of linux and didn't say "May bill gates live forever" at the end of your sentence. Linux sucks! windows rules! I hurl invectives at you!
So, are you going to never develope a windows game again?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
...Linux's user base isn't conducive to actual intelligence anymore"
I don't think it was ever 'conducive' to anything. I think 'exclusive to actual convenience' is more apt. who wants to spend 100 hours to learn how to run their gaming machine, anyway?
- Most Linux games come out long after the corresponding Windows game. Since many Linux users can dual boot, they'll already have gotten the Windows version by the time the Linux version comes out.
- Linux games are often a pain to install. Q3 on RH6.1 took some effort, I haven't been able tog et it to work at all after upgrading to RH6.2.
- The Linux games available at our local computer store are: Quake 1, Quake 2 (actually off the shelves already), Quake 3 (excellent), Railroad Tycoon (got OK reviews), Myth II (not my cup of tea, but got good reviews), and Heretic 2 (awful). That kind of selection isn't sufficient to keep a gamer happy. So, everybody has to be able to run Windows for games anyway, and then they might as well keep buying all their games for Windows.
Linux won't become a widely used, popular game platform until many of the major games are released for Windows and Linux within a short timespan of each other (what about releasing for Linux first, for a change? good way to do QA before the Windows masses and Windows technical problems bite). As long as vendors can break even on the games, I hope they will keep porting. It may not be a money maker now, but once the market catches up, it will be.Have you tried USB under win95???
It's pure crap!
My father bought a laptop with win95 and of course wanted to use his usb-zip, should just be to plug it in? Right!
It detects it. good.
Reboot... starting win95, oh wait not zip...
hmm install it again... detects it... reboot...
no zip! install again... no zip. Tried copying usb files to other directories after some talk with some other people... Didn't work
Went to the manufacturers homepage and downloaded usb-fix. That should take care of it...
Ok, detects zip... reboot... zip working!
Confident I turn it over to my father... He starts using it... turns it off... no zip...
reboots... no zip... install usb-fix again... detects zip... shutdown... starting win95 no zip!
I just settled on making a nice icon on the desktop with the name "Find zip-drive", and suggested that he should get win98 upgrade.
Why isn't the win98 cd we have working, he asks me. It doesn't have the drivers, I tell him...
He can't really understand that you would need to buy a new win98 cd to upgrade his laptop.
So Linux isn't more than 2 years behind win (win98) in getting usb to work!
There are two types of dirt: One dark kind that sticks to light objects and one light kind that sticks to dark objec
Availability of the Linux version was the reason that I didn't buy it.
I spent a week trying to find a copy of the Linux version, unfortunately, none of the local stores carried it. I finally said "Screw it" and bought the Windows version so I had something to play.
I know I'm not the only one, either, because a good friend of mine told me he did the same thing. Had the Linux version been available locally, I would have bought it in a second.
Topher
trying to make someone buy a linux game. what have you been smokin'?? what do you expect? no one is going to pay money for a piece of software when everything else for the OS is free! lets not let money get its foot in the door. once you have to pay for one peice of software, you may find that you'll have to pay for more and more for linux software.
Well, when Q3A was going to be released, I let my friends that work for Electronics Boutique that I wanted the first copy. For some reason I couldn't just preorder it like you could with the Windows version.
So on the release day they got one (1) copy in, and my friend snagged it for me. I came in and bought it. My brother wanted the next copy. 4-5 days later another copy came in and he got that one. Apparently some people had been asking for it, but because it wasn't in stock they didn't buy one. Eventually they sold a couple more but they never had more than one in stock at any time. I don't know what the EB purchaser was smoking because they could have sold many more. I was expecting at least 4 or 5 like they would get for even the crappiest windows release of a new game.
Also Amazon.com wouldn't let you preorder. THis is the way I obtain most of my cd's, dvd's, etc. I order them way in advance and usually get a decent discount. Then they just magically show up on my door. Works well. I talked to Amazon's customer support department and they just said they didn't know when they'd get it and that they wouldn't accept pre-orders. I don't know if they ever got it in. That hurt sales as Amazon has got to be the biggest software retailer.
THe funny thing is that I never play Q3 anymore... I have decided to stop playing games about 6 months before it came out, yet I put down my $40 to support commercial Linux releases. I've got a cool tin box if nothing else... the CD is still in the cellophane if memory serves. I guess I wish more of the other members of the community voted with their dollars.
-k
I am really surprised that Carmack actually considers his test as a valid one. I thought he would have considered the factors a little bit bettter than he did. As it has been said before, the main reason that the linux specific Q3 didn't sell well is due to:
A.) Released a good bit after the windows version
B.) Binaries for each platform would become available on the web.
C.) The 3d driver status wasn't so hot. As far as exceptable peformance goes, a V3 was the only solution so that narrowed it down even further to those that had a V3.
So what possible solutions could there be to improve game sells?
A.) Better 3d drivers obviously. However, this will take time and patience. A great deal of work is being put into creating wonderful drivers for current cards and even future cards as we speak. X 4.x is improving a great deal too. All we need is a little patience and possibly a urge to help out.
B.) A more user friendly setup. Stock linux installs aren't geared towards gaming. I belive that Nvidia and 3dfx should both provide a their own linux distro which should just be a modified version of some other distro like redhat but more oriented to games and their hardware.
C.) Gnome or kde panels that contain all apps loved by the typical computer user that exist in windows. Ex. Mpeg players, mixers, cd rippers, mp3 player, etc.... (this portion has improved greatly in the last 6 months but has plenty of room to improve more.)
D.) Lastly, a well know site that contains a list of substitutions for windows applications. Ex. ICQ->Licq,Kicq,gnomeicu. Word97-->Staroffice. Winamp-->xmms. etc...
I think with people being forced to use these 3d "enhancemnts" and various "improvements" for $7,000 video cards I really feel that this is going to more or less require these cards for almost everything. Maybe I am old fashioned (actually I am not even 30) but I do remember when all you needed to have "3d graphics" was a VGA graphics card. Why don't people take and have 3d rendering and the video card on the same circuit board and spare the need for some piece of equipment that usually is more likely to cause your motherboard to be outdated in 6 months. I really don't believe that linux is just for "number crunching" largely because the interesting aspects of number crunching, distributed computing and such are deliberately kept in university research rat holes and only 3 people understand them. I want games that are optimized for various architectures and use something like the old games use liek assembly and the like. You simply have libraries that someone would initally figure out and then future game swould then use those for each type of video card and hardware. Linux games really seem overkill for the ammount of hardware. Kind of like an emulator. Why should I have a PII just to play a snes game properly? Why should that clone of Warcaft 2 require 128 Mbs of ram
Respond to s
I was one of the poor fools who purchased Quake3
for Linux on the day of the release. Here are
my gripes from that time...
What are they crazy...an after Christmas release... I was broke for a month after
that O' So Pleasant holiday... not only that...
but I was quite content with the vast assortment
of gifts I recieved from friends and family. Myself and many others didn't really need much more.
If anyone recalls... X4.0 wasn't quite out at
that time. I honestly didn't want to go back
to an older version of X to get the early nvidia
drivers working, and I know a good bit of novices
who would break out into siezures if you mentioned
a non-rpm install.
A good bit of us waited on X4.0 and nvidias promise of good 3d hardware acceleration. This
unfortunately came months after Q3's initial
release.
In my opinion, Q3 isn't that great, maybe I
am just burnt out on this particular genre...
but I am sure there are a good many people
who have feelings similar to myself.
IMHO, Q3A for Linux was released at the wrong
time, novice users were at a bit of a challenge,
and Linux really wasn't ready. Compare these
realities with the target market of young
adults and it looks like ID software hung themself
by the balls.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
However, don't forget that in the grand scheme of things, 'people that read Slashdot' is a a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of 1 percent of all people.
Linux IS a niche market. Its made inroads faster than just about anyone thought possible, but its NOT mainstream. Ask Joe Q Public what Windows is (in relation to an OS), most will know, ask the same guy what Linux is and you're likely to get a blank stare.
4b) The linux version was $10 more expensive and available about a month later in my neck of the woods... quake fans want their quake 3 as soon as it is released, and they don't want to pay $10 extra when they have a permenant internet connection and the linux download downloads in no time.
5) (at least originally) If you buy the linux version, you can only play on linux. If you buy the windows version, you can play on linux and you can play on windows (and its $10 cheaper). What would the average linux user buy?
Most of the time the way you feel about your computer is directly linked to the way you see that computer. One could also say that the computer experience is related to the comptuer you have. Microsoft is not my favorite group because they never know home to optimize a damn thing. It's just bloat and more bloat. Windows 3.11 was bloated and unnecessary for most things I like 95 even more so 98 is just a laughing joke largely because who they hell really needs to navigate around thier computer like it was the internet? I mean the two are entirely seperated and have different properties it should be explicetly different. Then you have strict hardware requirements. You have more and more and more hardware just going to keep the OS running without problems. I guess I come from a different backgruond but I want to avoid replacing my computer until I get some form of hardware failure that forces me to upgrade to another old cheap piece of hardware. As far as the game issue I don't think that windows + bloated game is ecconomically a good idea unless you like replacing you expensive hardware with more expensive hardware an average of 3 months at a time. I really would like QNX to be released sooon so that I can reclaim my computer from windows and from linux as well. Linux has largely become a windowsy machine design type with the option of source and crashing less plus a few utilities. The needed hardware specs for a linux gaming machine and a windows gaming machine are almost identical now and that really really really scares me. Is there a single game developer/company in the entire world that is desiging games that work to highly optimized and run well on lesser machine? I would just like at least the motherboard manufacturers to allow for backwards compatability with their products so at least the *interface* for all the expensive stuff stays the same for at least a goodly ammount of time. Why am I bitter? Well when a console system costs something like $100.00 and a computer for gaming every 3 months costs $4,000.00 because some hardware guys got a boner about screwing the consumer out of hard earned cash I think that something is wrong.
Respond to s
I already had purchased a copy of Quake III Arena for Win32, but when I saw the Tin Box at LinuxCentral's booth just around the corner from the Loki booth - I couldn't resist.
Now, I don't actually use it for playing the desktop version, but I do run the server version on my Linux box.
Vote with you $$$$.
.
The next E release is going ot be VERY different from the current release, makes the time between releases differ quite a bit.
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
I think to get a native port of a game to your OS of choice is a good incentive to wait a least a month. Oh and cheat codes are not bad things some people don't like getting slaughtered by the game they buy. What do you mean by "Package manipulation with the pure code" anyway?
Respond to s
Someone (not me) needs to improve the setup of Glide/Mesa/Whatever to make it Just Work.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Why do I get a page that only asks me to sign up for a bunch of windows 2000 mailing lists when I click on that link?
Thanks, I can't reach the win2000mag link, but now won't have to, since now I realize I've read the original posting by John Carmack already :)
Johan V. (who wonders wether win200mag will write an article about one of my postings someday.... neh I just stopped wondering)
Say, you're not the J-J-J-Julius guy, are you?
sup
it wasn't carmak, afaik. what /I/ seem to have seen on /. several times at least is that he had the Linux version all ready, but that the packaging people stabbed /him/ by deliberately delaying the linux packaging, manuals, etc until way after the windows ones were done...
Lea
If you're a hardware vendor that wants my sale, support Linux. If you're a software vendor that wants my sale, support Linux. It's as simple as that.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Shiping inside of most countries (or continents) borders to be something of a no brainer. I would be rather shocked that in whatever country you are in that they don't have a single copy of the game anywhere.
Respond to s
Tuzanor has a very good point. Linux is pretty much in its "early stages" of non-commercial use. It has, for a long time, been thought of for strictly business use because of it's scalability, multi-user and SMP capabilites. Only recently has it come into the light as a desktop OS. It will definitely take a lot of time for linux gaming to take off. Much of this needed time will have to go into the development of the OS itself so that it will be more presentable for use as a gaming OS. Maybe another reason linux gaming isn't taking off so quickly, is because it costs to buy many of the "brand name" games that are out there. After all, linux's (and unix based OS's) main strength is that it's FREE
They told me to install win95 or better, so I installed linux
Since when did this ever become a problem? So, Linux is not taking off in the gaming world. Big deal. I hardly see that as his fault. I like my bicycle, but I still drive my car, because it takes me to more places that I need to be. If the bicycle industry goes under, it's not my problem.
However, I did the math and came to this conclusion: If there were less people like him, the net effect on the precious Linux gaming world would be zero. Assume you started with 10 people like him, who are Windows(TM) gamers, but use Linux. Now assume all 10 of them spontaneously combusted. This doesn't *add* to the number of games being bought. We simply have 10 fewer people using computers.
I did even more math, and came to the conclusion that you, single handedly, could save the Linux gaming universe, by simply buying more games yourself. Good luck.
---
The fight's not over, until the winner is tired.
I was absolutly furious when I found out you play Soldier of Fortune under Linux I had to buy the game again. I though forsure it would be like quake where I could just download the binaries. If I would have known I would have waited to by the game. I'm sure many other people have this problem too as compaines like Loki need to tell users about this.
I completely understand as they are two different compaines etc. But Loki needs to tell the community they can't buy the windows version and then download linux binaries. As for SOF, I'm sure I'll buy the linux port if it ever drops below $30 dollars and I don't need the money for extra crack.
RT2 in Linux is awesome! BTW, I bought all 3 Quakes (I & II online, III at the expo in Manhattan) so I wonder where they are getting their numbers... are they including on line retailers? Of course, one guy (me) isn't going to make any difference, just wondering which retailers they took into account...
~Religion is O.K., as long as it gets you laid.
I fiddled for a few hours with glx, gart, kernel recompiles, xfree config files, and lots of different documents that all proported to explain how to set it up. I have a Matrox G400, but I only ended up getting unplayable frame rates, except at the very lowest quality setting in 640x480, which wasn't very exciting.
Now I've been using linux since a few months before the 1.0 kernel (0.99pl14 as I recall), and many years before with SunOS, HP/UX, NetBSD on various hardware. I did much more in a 3-4 hour session that anyone could reasonably be expected to do to set up their video card, and despite trying many different configurations, none produced acceptable fram rates.
Still, I'm glad I bought it and in a little way contributed to id not losing money, even if they just barely broke even. I also purchased many of the other early Loki boxes. Seeing Tux (and a little note that it won't run on windoze) on the box in the store was just awesome. I tried to play Myth2 a bit, and I never even installed H2 at all.
The novelty (of seeing Tux in the store) has worn off, so now it'll take something really cool and probably a downloadable demo to get another $50 from my wallet.
The sad truth is that not playing games that much, the 200-500 megs it takes to install a typical game is better spent on MP3 files, which tend to provide more hours of entertainment and even while I'm using the computer for real work!
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
I think that you've gotten to the heart of the matter. It seems like some people in the slashdot crowd have let the tremendous increases in linux popularity go to their head. It's kind of like the spirit of fighting for linux (freedom, etc.) isn't as prevelent.
:-)
I think that Linux is getting viable, though. Stuff like 3D is rough but getting better by leaps and bounds, installations are now fairly easily, at least in redhat and the like (for some reason they haven't cleared up some of the terminology in the installer, though. I can recognize the option by a name in parenthases and a first-timer installer would probably do with a less historic name for some things). The desktop, especially with helix, is getting more polished.
I think that we are in a pretty good place as far as the linux snowball is going. As you said, breaking even, especially on a game like quake III, is a very good sign.
Well, quake is enigmatic. On the one hand you have the fact that it is very popular because the basic game is good. On the other hand, it's the same game (more or less) as the previous too versions, and while the graphics are much better, it doesn't change the fact that the game hasn't changed too much. I'd be very interested to know if the game in question being quake helped or hindered linux sales. I could see both ways.
Either way, breaking even is indeed very good. Since so many things stacked against the linux sales of Q3 (later release date, reliance on 3D acceleration which isn't easy to get working, etc.), it's got to make other game developers think that they could fix those problems and make money. Wait... that's what Loki did. Yeah, I think that we can safely hope for a bright future.
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
>Sorry, but you're wrong.
Actually, I would suggest that you made a greater departure from reality tha he did, but there may be a good reason for this - you lived in Europe and he didn't (guess).
Computer prices in Europe were sky high and so the Amiga was very competitive. In other places in the world, the Amiga was stupidly expensive.
Example: You say the reign lasted until '94. In the part of the world where I live, in '94 an entry level PC was running 24bit graphics faster than an A4000 ran 8bit graphics, and that A4000 (with only AGA) cost nearly twice as much as the PC, (and that's ignoring what happened if you needed support or repairs)
When saying what the Amiga was or wasn't, you are always going to wrong unless you also specify where.
I know it's not selling. My local MicroCenter has had 5 copies of Quake3 for linux in the limited edition tin box for months now.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Lets face it Linux lacks in the graphic and audio compared to windows and will do so a couple of more years. But with the xfree maturing and ALSA support hopefully included in the next kernel(2.6) this will change. Someone mentioned that it was hard to autodetect usb?! /dev/your_hardware_here make it easy to add new hardware. Ofcourse the sales
It is possible to compile USB as modules, so distros could set up USB support for different
chip makers(USB is not the same on motherboards i learnt yesterday) without compiling kernel.
And the devfs(bloat people said but Linus included it anyway==good!) that detect changes and set up
of Linux games wont change over night. Getting market share from windows will take
time and MS has a big grip on game developers with directx(smart move as most people who has a computer play games..). Now with the Staroffice open sourced a great office suit will emerge so hopefully that will take care of the business aspects. But for "ordinary" home user it will take longer( remember most users want games).
Myself? i use Linux for everything except games, and the games i like(driving games) is not available on Linux although i still will buy SOF.
3-4 years and this will have changed! Until then Linux is superior to windows on every aspect except graphic and sound.
99% of the mods? Have you actually tried? The vast majority of the mods I've tried, including Jailbreak, Requiem, and countless others are released as QVMs (and thus will work on any OS Quake III runs on). Others, like Rocket Arena 3, come with a Linux-specific version. Also regarding NVIDIA, I'm using their Linux drivers under XFree86 4.0.x and they work great, just as well as their Windows counterparts on my TNT. Before you complain, at least make sure your facts are straight.
I'll buy a linux game when its the only OS i'll be using, until then i'll keep buying games for Windows. I've setup quake1, 2, 3 and UnrealTournament, and i have my GeForceDDR working at full-speed.. but its not that it doesn't work as well as windows...its the simplicity of running it.
...
... first few times i ran quake3 trying to set it up in linux.. it crashed (cute) and didn't give any sort of imformative output (this is a linux program right?)
In windows.. i double click on an icon...
In linux.. i start X.. make sure nothing else is running taking cpu/vga power.. then start the game
Even tho the game runs good in linux.. the controls setup is just a pain.. its taken me quite a while to find out how to get a mouse wheel working in linux.. then trying to get 4+ buttons working is almost impossible and to top all that off
Maybe someone should setup some kind of linux-forum where a set a guidelines are written for games under linux and has a standardised setup (required software, etc etc) and some scripts/bins to help setup the game (if needed)
well thats my 2 cents
"I'm gunna build my own theme park, with blackjack, and hookers.... actually, forget the theme park"
USB: So you've never heard of the linux joystick driver? It was new in 2.1 and has been around for a while. It's a nice unified interface that allows to to relatively easily deal with any joystick using the same interface. It even works with rewired playstation controllers, if I recall the docs properly.
3D: This is actively being worked on in XF 4, etc. While true, it's kind of pointless to say that people should be working on what they are already working on.
Retailers: true. I virtually never buy stuff from brick-and-mortar shops, but it would be nice for them to stock the linux versions, and for the linux versions to be available.
Standardized system: There is. OpenGL for graphics, linux joystrick driver to joystick, X for keyboard and mouse. Or use one of the ever-expanding number of cross-platform compatability libraries. Glut could make a decent choice.
Anyhow, few people seem to attribute poor quake III sales to quake. Quake has been the same game for the last three versions, and really the last6 if you cound doom and wolfenstein. I liked wolf, I enjoyed doom, and I even enjoyed quake occasionally, but come on. They're the same game with different graphics and a few tweeks in gameplay.
That and ever-increasing unrealism. I never even bothered with III when I saw a friend play a demo - people were moving around so damn fast they might as well not have bothered rendering them at all. He died after entering a room, running halfway accross it, and spinning at least 400 degrees in around a second.
seriously, since linux is still disproportionally made up of geeks (aka smart people), don't you think that they'd be disproportionally made up of people who get tired of the same damn thing over and over again, with the big distinction in newer versions being that they require even more hours of practice to get a modicum of skill?
I know that I have better things to do than to play occasionally, and if you're anything but a dedicated quake player, your ass is going to be smeared on the wall pretty constantly.
Linux sales of quake might be more of a metric of how many people have nothing constructive to do with any of their time, rather than a how-many-people play games on linux. A more interesting question would be for games which don't have such a high skill bar for entry, and thus are playable by those with jobs, relationships, responsibilities, etc.
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
If you use the Win32 point release you can use the Linux version on Windows. So it really doesn't make sense to ship TWO versions. I'd like to see some hybrid CDs. I don't particularly care for Windows, and if I have to reboot just to play a game, it's irritating. UT and Q3A have shown developers what can be done with a little time and effort. I really don't mind going out and buying a Windows game and then patching it, or downloading some binaries. If the games are coded well, like Starcraft, they run well under WINE. I have to admit that Starcraft runs better under WINE than in Windows.
Developers, if your listening, give us something for Linux support.
As a Mac user I always make sure to fill out my registration for hybrid CD software.
If you don't, your purchase is counted as a Windows sale by default.
I imagine all of you who bought the Windows version and downloaded the binary did a great disservice to the Lynx community.
I too questioned the reason that the Linux game sales were low for Id and why I haven't bought that many Id titles. For me the reasons were: 1. It *IS* difficult to set up 3D games for Linux. And while things *HAVE* gotten better they are not up to par with the Winblows crowd; yet. 2. While most of the boxes that I run Linux on don't have a 3D card, I would be hard pressed to justify adding a new 3D card JUST to play games. 3. If I can find it (not that many retailers DO carry Linux games) chances are, I can find the same game for Winblows for less money. Maybe this isn't much of an issue for most folks, but at times, for me, it can be. 4. How many times can you play a variation on Quake? Personally, I've had enough Q/Q2/Q3/Qx and Half Life/Unreal Tournament, etc, etc, etc. If Id was going to come out with a different theme, I would consider purchasing it... 5. Loki has been on the receiving end of most of my gaming money spent on Linux. They do have the variety of titles.
hey, don't blame me... :)
Just got Soldier of fortune + heretic2, just after
Heavy Gear2, Q3A and CivCTP... And yesterday the
sipping note for descent3 came in..
Dunno what kinda problems other people have with
their graphics cards, on my box those games
work almost out of the box (of course I install the latest patches...)...
And, it's NOT a 3dfx card I got! (ELSA Erazor X2)
The stupid kernel dosn't seem to be able to find my SCSI cdrom drive but dos can with the drivers that I found at adaptec. If anyone could get it to work properly in the kernel the first time I would get rid of DOS altogether. Just a magnet for virii. A good question is do any of the *BSD varieties support compressed filesystems like e2compr does and support almost any cdrom drive with SCSI under the sun. I would gladly switch.
Respond to s
If Linux games are not selling why have I been waiting for an order from Loki/Digital River for the last couple of months?
I've been waiting for an order since June 20 and when ever I ask Digital River about the status of my order I get a responce like this:
"The product you ordered is currently on backorder. Our warehouse has
not yet received this item, but we will be filling orders upon arrival.
We do not have an estimated date on the arrival, however. You will
receive an email notification when your order is actually shipped. Your
credit card has not been charged at this point. We apologize for any
inconvenience this delay has caused."
If there is no demand, I wouldn't have expected the games I ordered to have gone onto backorder in the first place.
Maybe it is only the ID games that are not selling.
Well, have you tried any of Loki's strategy games? HOMM III and Railroad Tycoon are really good IMHO, and Alpha Centauri is likely to be equally as good.
Just because Quake does not sell well does not mean there is no real linux gaming market. I have bought most of the games that loki has ported because I like those games. I however have not bought any of the ID games since I don't like quake. I find Heroes 3, Civ:CTP, Railroad Tycoon 2 and others are all great games. I also have a number of friends who have been buying linux games and none of those linux based games has been quake.
So far I have found that almost every game that loki has ported has been worthy of buying since they only port the good games.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Loki has done about 10 ports of popular games, and I recently saw that they planned 19 more for this year. If those games werent selling well ( as a whole gaming market, not just quakeIII alone), they wouldnt be making such ambitious plans.
UgaBuga!
Replacing my hardware to run a *free* operating system isn't something I am willing to do and I bet most people with a judicious mind would not either. Hardware should be support and work the *first* time that linux boots. A proper should be sent out and the type of setup should be read and the proper drivers loaded. What's the point of trying to save money and get better quality from linux if you have to throw out half your hardware to get it to work. I have a Mach32 card in an AST Premia 4/66d machine and it can't even use all the color depth in the damn card because xfree dosn't feel like doing development to keep their shitty server working properly. The only reason I got it to work in the first place was because I limited it to 8bit color and I still am getting signal 11 errors (the signal not the poster) a bunch. I think I should be supported the same as the rubes who decided wasting several thousand dollars for their expensive video card/29" monitor combo do.
Respond to s
- Diablo 2
Games bought for Linux:- Heroes of Might and Magic III
- Soldier of Fortune
- Myth II
That's in the past 2 years, I believe. I'd *much* rather play a Linux game, but I'm also keen on Diablo 2, and it pains me that there is no Linux version yet. But, alas, all in due time. I believe the gaming market for Linux is going to *boom* because you can make cheap game consoles with Linux. SorryI am a former Amiga zealot, from 1987-1991 the Amiga was the greatest computer in the world, at least in my world.
Amateur. You sold out in 1991? What on earth for when the platform didn't start dying until at least 3 years after that? Some zealot!
The Amiga was actually fairly popular as a game machine, and we had a number of titles available which were quite successful. Most of the Psygnosis stuff, a few crossover games from the Atari ST like DungeonMaster, etc.
It was IMMENSELY popular as a games machine. There were some HUGELY succesful games, the only one of which you mentioned was Dungeon Master. Do some research.
But I'd also say that the reality was the Amiga had the highest percentage of software piracy of any platform available at the time.
It came from a couple of basic issues:
#1. Most Amiga users were college students, without much money.
This may be the case, but that is NOT the reason. The reason piracy was so high was because 8bit games sold for 10 quid and Amiga games sold for 30 or more. Plus there were an INORDINATELY high number of users. A 10% piracy rate on a machine that sells say 5000 units is a LOT lower than 10% on a system that sells 50000. (And some Amiga games did.) So of course piracy is going to appear higher.
#2. Most Amiga users were afraid to commit a lot of money to their system because it was fringe.
Fringe? Are you on drugs? The Amiga was huge and never became "fringe" as you put it until the PC started kicking it's ass thanks to Doom. (HEY! On topic! Carmack made it, Carmack made it!) Plus there is the fact that upgrading the Amiga made little or no sense for gaming beyond taking it to 1 meg of ram. Games were written for the stock machine, so one computer would run it much the same as another. Case in point, F1GP. On the A1200 it wasn't any faster on low detail than the A500 due to the framerate being hardcoded, so to say about Amiga users being scared to commit a lot of money into a fringe system is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard.
That is, there was always this fear in the back of ones mind that next year you'd buy a new computer and it wouldn't use any of your current stuff.
What color is the sky in your world? That's TOTAL shit. The problem came around 92-93 when C= released the A600 (a castrated A500 effectively) and shipped Kickstart 2 with it, then shortly thereafter shipped Kickstart 3 on the A1200. (Still the best computer ever made.) Until the A600, no Amiga user had any fear of that. I knew a LOT of fellow Amiga users back then, and not one worried about that. C= claimed that if programmers had stuck to the guidelines, backward compatibility would have been 100%, but due to pushing the hardware there were significant incompatibilities with older software. Before this point, your alleged "fear" was non-existent, and since you say you left in 91, you were long sold out before the problems were even remotely worried about.
Anyway. I think these issues that hurt the Amiga still hold true today,
They're all in your head. You have no clue whatso-fucking-ever. You are an idiot.
Oh, one problem the Amiga also had. We went around telling all the software companies that if only they'd write software we would buy it. Of course they did write software, and instead we pirated it.
AH! So you were not a zealot, but a software pirate. Congratulations, you're an asshole. As for "we pirated it", fuck you. YOU may be a thief. Others are not. Don't paint them to be the asshole you are.
After a few years of this, a large number of companies simply stopped supporting the Amiga.
Wrong. While piracy was an issue for them leaving, the primary reason was the greener pastures of consoles and the PC. All the time, piracy problem or not, they could make more money developing for the Amiga than the PC. Then Carmack came along with his old dog doing a few new tricks, and they left. THAT was the problem. Piracy was just bandied around as the reason. Carmack could have supported the Amiga but chose not too, despite the fact that Doom has now been ported to the Amiga just fine.
Honestly, I have never seen such outright bullshit posted on Slashdot. I mean for crying out loud, you say you were a zealot, yet you left long before the Amiga became huge. Some zealot. Do you even know the meaning of the word? Perhaps if you'd stuck around until 95 and beyond like the TRUE fans did you wouldn't be so full of shit and may actually know what you're talking about.
I could pick apart your ridiculous statements some more, but frankly I'm bored. You're talking complete bollocks, and nothing I say is going to change that. Next time, try posting on a subject you actually have a clue about, like masturbation or something.
A REAL Amiga zealot.
Well, Linux people, including me, want a free OS. Will that kind of people buy application programs?
:) )
:(
Some S/W for special need or selling a S/W used in a compnay only may be sold. But will general application S/W can be sold enough to maintain maker of the S/W?
Here in Korea, most companies in Linux business do IT business, not S/W business. What does that mean?
As I posted to linux advocacy newsgroup, Linux would need a stardardized UI ( not just look, but also API, etc ) for making Linux business as an industry. By doing so, programmers don't need to write codes for every desktop/windo managers.
Diversity is good. But too radical one is not good.
Anyway, by doing so, Linux business could be done in every expected field, not only IT and server business.
I used Linux from around 1992. My big question is that how Linux can be more easier to maintain?
simply deleting or upgrading ncurses library makes your screen "blank". Upgrading some library, for example, GTK, causes recompilation of application programs which use the library.
( I'm the person who tries every new version of libraries and application programs.
I need to install QT, GTK, LessTIF, GNOME, KDE and others to use some application programs which are not available on others. It steals my weekend!
You know, Mac people argues against Windows scattered DLLs. In terms of that matter, Linux are worse than Windows. I think the most robust OS according to changing libraries, extension, is the Macintosh. Won't it be great if we saw that thing on Linux? ( MacOS X approaches Unix way.
I like Unix's operational robustness, stability,but don't like robustness and stability in maintenance. )
It looks like off-the-topic.
Well, but I think if Linux application programs, including games are to be sold, underlying things I mentioned are required, I think.
What do you think on that?
Whatever companies that don't want to make a Linux port of their new game should be persuaded to use a company like LokiGames that specializes in porting games. The Linux port would be developed at the same time as the Windows version. This would require a bit of communication between the programmers of both companies. A linux directory would be included on the companies final cd or if the cd couldn't hold the directory a seperate Linux cd could be cut. The obvious problem with this plan is why would the gaming company spend extra money to develop a linux version of the game. The answer is they won't until there is a standardized gaming platform on Linux(like directx) which will allow Linux games to be coded easier by the Linux Gaming Companies.
First of all, get an account. Second of all, Speed is not entirely everything. AGP support with obscure chipsets were recently added through 3rd party software called "agpgart". Still there is no support for some chipsets out there. Support for all the "extras" like tv out and tv tuners and such on some of the more expensive cards do not work.
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
No kidding. My local Babbage's still has a copy of Quake II for Linux sitting on their bargain shelf. I think they keep it around as some sort of store mascot.
Your assuming wrong...
There are quite a few of us around that run Linux as their primary OS. I play Quake3 and Unreal Tournament under it all the time and I buy Loki games quite often. The only copy of windows on this harddrive is under vmware and it certainly isn't for playing games (hint: its for networking experiments).
And I suppose all those dedicated servers running on Linux are on dualboot boxen? [/sarcasm]
--- polarbear
Anybody remember the last category of software that used DOS as its main platform? That's right, games! It took a year or two until there was a sufficient installed base of computers, running a version of Windows that was even vaguely suitable for games, before Windows-specific games started to appear in numbers.
As Xfree 4.0 matures, and more and more people start using Linux as their only operating system, Linux games will start to appear in greater numbers.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
It was what was available to me at the time. I perused my town's entire commercial strip, visiting electronic stores, video game stores, and computer stores, looking for Q3A for Linux to no avail. Let's be serious here. The low sales figures aren't surprising to anyone, considering the limited at-the-store availability. If ppl can't buy it at their local retailer's where are they going to get it? Lokigames.com? Sorry, but I'll wager the majority of the Quake series' player base remains the non-credit-card-holding youth market. Besides, even if that's not true, why worry about online-purchasing, shipping charges, and WAITING when you can buy the levels at the store, and download the binary at home?
If the software company brass isn't going to give Linux the fighting chance it deserves, then they shouldn't bitch or be surprised when it fails. I feel bad for Carmack...it seems like he's fighting an uphill battle against people who don't understand why he just doesn't dump open-GL/Linux support, give in, and don a Microsoft dog-collar. Hey I should be one to talk...I didn't buy the Linux version. Bad Linux zealot. Baaaad.
3D games will sell much better when the distributions support 3D out of the box. And i mean most 3D cards - NVidia, 3dfx, S3 and Matrox to name a few.
Currently you have to install kernel modules, worry about agp support, replace your X server and finally install the actual drivers. 3dfx support uses an entirely different mechanism, and Matrox support is probably also different too.
Personally, i just don't have the time to piss around with this stuff.
I bought Civ:CTP for Linux and it works great. I will continue to support gaming on Linux, but i won't buy a game that doesn't work without spending hours configuring my machine to run it.
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
"but I didn't think the Linux desktop market really existed yet."
well i dunno what os i've been using on the desktop for the past five years if the linux desktop market isn't happening. it sure seems like linux. and i've had over three dozen coworkers using linux desktops as well.
don't believe the hype about the number of windows users. it apparently takes two windows licenses to have one windows user in most companies. (and since they probably have a windows machine at home make that three per user.)
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Okay here is the strange thing. Between windows 98 and Mandrake 7.1 my USB logitech mouse works better in mandrake. It detected the mouse just fine and all the buttons work in x including the wheel. In windows however the mouse turns off every so often. I then have to unplug it and plug it back in again. I have never seen this behavior in linux.
So while the mouse was slightly easier to get working in windows to begin with it is a pain on the upkeep. While the linux version was slighter more difficult it has never failed.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Windows wasn't a gaming platform from the beginning. It started with Windows 95 and even then MS.DOS was bigger. And DOS wasn't a gaming platform from the beginning - so as Linux still is in the teenage years of desktop use, they should be a bit more patient...
live long and prosper, 20InchPenis "Master of Gherkin"
Why would anyone beleive what you say when you fucking dont know how to make a slashdot account? maybe you should pick up a book called "Slashdot accounts for anal raping morons". Maybe then you wont be such a fucking retard and someone might take you seriously.
Tell me, how much longer before you leave kindergarten, fuckhead?
I wouldnt accuse people of being in kindergarden when you use insults like fuckhead?, what are you going to call me next? poohead or maybe even cootie face? I am not the one started this childish namecalling. I think if you actually read your posts again you will find you are the one who is acting like a child.
Maybe you are right about the agp thing. I am man enough to admit that. I would rather be a man and admit when I am wrong than be immature and try to pick fights with other people. Who is in kindergarden now?
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
When Babylon 5 came out, and people started yapping about the special effects, my first reaction was "People still use Amigas?"
I'm a dumb American, but it seemed to me that by then Amiga usage had receeded into vertical markets (special effects) and of course the Jihad crowd. In short, it was dead as a consumer platform.
Certainly by 1994, when Amiga users started spamming Mac newsgroups, it was more of a cry for help than anything resembling 'life'.
I tried to think of another way to say something was difficult, but it turned out to be a sweet pain in the ass.
-The guy above
Supplement to my last post
:P
Oh wait! I remember now; Nvidia incorporates agpgart code into their kernel module with their agp code. I am right after all
And dont try to post saying how stupid I am for forgeting this, Anonymous Coward, because it will only hurt you further!
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
but you have to be the hardest of the hard core to live with Linux and Linux apps on the desktop full time.
;)
.vobs and MPEG files. XMMS handles my playlists. I do my filesharing over samba so I don't have to worry about exposing uid mapping nonsense via NFS (and my SMB performance is better, hmmph).. I have not had to boot a WinXX machine on my work desktop for well over 1.5 years now... Even the Exchange mail system 2 jobs ago had a web-browsable interface installed..
You flatter me unduly
StarOffice does pretty much everyting I need in an office app, Nutscrape's available (as is Flash, acroread, realplay, other toys) for browsing. xmovie plays decoded
Now if only I could get broadcast2000 talking without crashing to my D8 camcorder over ieee1394, life without windows would be dandy!
Your Working Boy,
I can see a time when Windows and Linux developers will meet somewhere in the middle; I just hope we won't all be carrying weapons when we do...
Dibs on the rocket launcher.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Terminus does...
Your Working Boy,
Wow, finally a slashdotter who clearly understood what happened in "OS Wars" of the early 90s. (And an AC who denies himself the karma he deserves.)
My only minor nitpick is that MS didn't really make a play to "home" users, but rather the desktop users with apps like MS Office that didn't require memorizing F keys to use. The IT Managers were worrying about their servers and their gateways, and woke up realizing that "We don't support Windows" wasn't going to fly when the user base from the CEO on down had surruptiously already stated using their handy preinstalled copies.
Anyway, the attitude of "Let Microsoft have the desktop, we'll make money selling servers" has never worked in the long term, and eventually Microsoft will be a player in everything from your handhold to your mainframe -- it's only a matter of time. A successful competitor (Apple?) has to take them on directly on the desktop.
Of course, Bob Young and others on the business side of Linux almost have to downplay the "desktop". Linux is so not ready in that department the suggestion is laughable at this point. Give it a year or two more of turd polishing.
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Hey, it's Mr. Anonymous Coward! I've heard of you before!
Thankyou for your reasoned response. I really want to spend time on a Linux version now.
Has anyone considered that there still just aren't enough linux users out there who want to play games in linux to push up the sales volume?
This news story = -1, Redundant
A few days ago Slashdot ran the story about Carmack's speech at Quakecon. If anyone had followed the link to Gamespy, they would've read that Q3 Linux sales were down. In addition, Q3a Linux sales were discussed in the thread and Carmack himself commented about it.
And now Slashdot makes a news story out of their user's comments a few days late? I don't get it. But I can't imagine that Carmack is going to keep coming back if we keep getting more BS news stories like this one (redundant). Ya gotta wonder whether the people submitting and accepting these news stories really read slashdot themselves.
It is simply easier to setup a game under windows than it is under Linux. I have tried Quake 3 under Windows and Linux. It took me all day to get it to run on a Red Hat 6.1 system and a few minutes under Windows 98. And once I did get it going, the frame rate was much better in Windows. Tweaking and playing with Linux is great, but not when I want or need to be doing something quickly (this goes for most applications, not just games).
As a side note, it seems that most of the problems with Linux revolve around Xfree86. If Linux is to become a viable alternative, the technical hurdles of X must be overcome, or X needs to be replaced.
I myself have bought the Quake/Armageddon/Hip 3-in-1 Linux game pack but I never bothered to send the stupid registration card back to Macmillan. I speak with money not with postcards.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
http://www.wininformant.com/display .asp?ID=2867
Well, there are some people here at slashdot who firmly believe that linux should not be used for gaming, but for 'textual numbercrunching' only. They really think improved gaming for linux will not be beneficial to the platform and it's userbase but rather harmfull to their reputation as power users.
Allthough I can understand what they want, it really makes no sense (let aside the wonderfully colorfull language they use to try and make it clear to me). Here's what one of them replied to my post. When you read this it looks like there is resistance within the linux usere crowd against gaming, and that's at least something the windows platform never had to deal with.
As for games not getting through on linux, well, as long as the boxes in the stores are going to read "95/98/NT required", things won't change. Publishers needs to switch over to linux and fund NEW! killer titles first before something will actually happen. And if any software company should be backed up for this, it's either going to be ID or Loki, as they are both capable of doing it fast and with a relatively low ramping cost.
Ah well..
With great power comes great electricity bills.
Hi Sips,
:)
Hmm yes, linux is resource heavy in it's fullest glory, but at least you can customize the load. Ok, if you really know what you're doing, you can also customize the load of NT, but unless you order 10 manuals first and have a permanent hotline straight into Gates kingdom, chances are you are going to long for a pinguin again soon.
One thing I must give you though. Motherboards are a kill factor. Slot A, Socket 7, Socket 1, Socket A, Slot 7.. can they please make up their fucking mind!! Chip cache is finally on-die. Yes! Rambus is allmost gone, and DDR SDRAM is stronger than ever. Finally! AGP is probably the next source of trouble for the next generations of motherboards, as current nVidia's have a bandwith problem. Fuck! The AMD's and Intel's are frequency locked, and so are supporting boards. You must allmost be a soldering electro cowboy if you want to overclock your stuff. In a way, it is cool to do stuff like that, get your hands dirty again just like in the old days (if you don't screw up your board ofcourse) but it also kinda sucks. Luckily, there's this haven in hardware land called www.tomshardware.com, which kicks major ass time and time again. Worth a peek, if you didn't allreally do so.
Actually, regarding motherboards, things have somewhat stabilized right now, which is scary because 64bit processors are just round the corner and will no-doubt require a whole new set of wheels to go. But in the end the consumer is usually fucked anyway, without even knowing it. The industry has allready set out it's roadmaps. God knows how they will really play it.
As for 3D cards.. you don't NEED a 3D card. It's just like with soundcards. They're all over the place, but you don't NEED them. I don't know why everybody keeps talking about getting their throat smacked up with a 3D board, because it's crap. Get a low-end Matrox board and shut up.
For instance, I didn't get a soundcard untill the very moment that I realised that I could make music with it myself (and I still do). Meanwhile just about everybody was allready enjoying Sounblaster 16's in stereo. So I bought me a wavetable card, because I thought it was a smarter design (and it was, if you added enough RAM on top to store the tables). But the point was that, unless I NEED to work with it, I don't buy it. And I think that goes for every fan, wire or led I have in this little grey and quite sexy box I have here
But anyway. You are right. It's hard assembling a lasting and upgradable configuration these days. The strategy I use is to just buy very high-end at one time and then hold my breath and see what happens. If you don't bet on the bad horses, that usually works quite ok.
my 0.02 euro.
With great power comes great electricity bills.
What you said is this:
"You want Linux for user friendly...Get a copy of GCC some programming skills vi/emacs and code away."
Is that your definition of User Friendly you f*cking moron? User Friendly means the general public. END USERS! Do you know what that means you moron? No wonder Linux is a pain, if all you TUX FUX think that is what User Friendly is. The general public will never be able to just code away at thier OS. For complete success in an OS you need to have the general publics backing, they make up more of the market than us techs. And for your information I could outcode you any day, I just do not like sitting up all night drinking Jolt Cola, occasionally taking masterbation breaks like you bub.
~~Dilate
Almost half of my software purchases are from overseas -- usually the US -- using a standard-issue VISA card. I've begun ordering more online, as well, though vendors tend to charge MSRP, so I try to avoid them.
I've never been asked to pay an exchange rate, and shipping almost always runs less than US$5. The only downside is delivery times tend to run at least a week.
Lee Kai Wen -- Taiwan, ROC
my understanding was that the "desktop" was the computer you used. formerly known as a workstation or the marketing-poor "your computer."
what i use to edit documents, edit code, send mail, browse the web, ftp, play music, rip cd's, keep todo lists on, play videos, download pix from my camera, upload music to my (usb) rio, automatically do certain tasks for me, and generally help me organise the digital side of my life.
is that what you mean by desktop? because bar netscape every single application is better then the windows apps people have shown me on windows. staroffice is tied with word in my book, i haven't seen a decent wp since writenow on the mac.
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So before burning somebody out you could be more polite about it...or are you just SOOO much better at being a harder prick than a porn star in the middle of a feature?
Cheers asshole
Even though i LOVE linux I still use windows for gaming for the main reason that, right now at least, it's the better platform for games. Look at recent benchmarks. Although most of the differences are hairthin Winhoes still has the advantage. When more support is added for linux and more people start using it as a desktop, it'll start to really take off.
I went looking for Quake III for Linux in the stores. No one could be bothered to carry it.
One store says they carryed Quake I and II for Linux and it didn't sell so they arn't bothering with Quake III.
At issue ID make a huge mistake reasing a Quake I and II Linux pacage. No one bought them becouse anyone who would want Quake I or II bought it for Windows a long time ago and got the Linux binarys.
But the stores don't know this. They think it's the first chance Linux users had to get Quake for Linux. They don't know what is happening and just assume Linux gamers don't exist. Pack up and don't bother with Quake III.
So the rest of us are stuck doing what we allways did. Buy Quake III and download the binarys.
Reality... can't get Linux games if people won't sell them...
And the Game shops DO NOT know that Quake and Doom for Linux has existed for years it just never existed as a pacage you could buy in the stores.
I know ID never planned this. They didn't realise the stores could be so ignorent of one of the most populare games in the industry.
But they are... and thats the point...
So don't release it to the stores for box sale if it's existed in binary for Linux for over a year.
Linux users are not unfamilure with downloading software. Thats where 90% of Linux software is... on-line waiting to be downloaded.
For now the best solution is to drop the Linux binary on the CD or on an FTP site and count operating systems by a busness reply card not by box sale.
Then when you can show the stores significant Linux numbers you can talk them into carrying new titles in box form.
And for hacks sake.. don't ship boxes of outdated products for Linux to stores. Sell them yes.. At Linux shops etc who are familure with what will and won't sell. But not at Babages or CompUSA who can't tell you the diffrence between Slackware Linux and Mandrake Linux.
I don't actually exist.
I really don't agree with your idea that: It has, for a long time, been thought of for strictly business use...Only recently has it come into the light as a desktop OS Linux started out mainly as a hobbyist OS. It was very much the desktop OS for the longest time. Its use in business is fairly recent.
Quake != all Linux games. I've bought just about
evey title Loki has published, but I didn't buy
Quake. I bought Unreal Tournament instead.
For one thing I could buy UT for $29 and download the Linux binaries. Q3 however was $60 and impossible to find locally. They were too similar to buy both, and my judgement was that UT was better-- and at half the price the decision was a no brainer.
I oftentimes make extensive use of hyperbole in my postings and take care to make it useful.
I find it next to impossible to even justify the purtchess of new hardware in which to partake in the modern world if they keep changing the motherboard designs that allow said hardware to be upgraded and which is central to the PC experience.
I have a rather vitrolic hatred of some of the software that has come out of the linux pike in tehe last little while which seems to force the 3d paradigm down my throat my appologies.
I have had a rather dismal affair of getting any hardware to work for me. The last time I actually tried to replace or even do anything with a commputer in changing it's hardware it caused a bios error and the machine was basically inoperative.
I thought that linux was actually in my best interests and actually trying to extend the life of my comptuer and I find little difference between the type of software I see from Microsoft and linux in the fact that they are both quite resource heavy and require much in the way of hardware.
Is there any hope that the motherboard will bother to stabalize at all so that at least I can upgrade components piecemail? I am hopelessly behind the times and am suffering mentally and physically because of my burdens.
Respond to s
Are you guys sure you got the right URL? Did you even bother to check it? All I got was a page offering subscriptions to a bunch of Win2K newsletters.
I haven't read the story, for obvious reasons, but in any case, given the source - Win2K Mag - and the target - Linux's popularity in a market which is very much of Microsoft's interest, gaming desktops - I'd be just a little bit suspicious of bias, twisting words and just generally bad journalism. Then again, I'm paranoid.
To the editors: your English is as bad as your Perl. Please go back to grade school.
Computers are never meant to be an extremely high maintaince proposition in the least.
Unless you like wasting money saving some is not a bad thing.
Oh and by the way jackass you can go to hell for all I care ok take your ecconomic platitudes and go somewhere bcause I have had it. I want reliability and *working* applications that don't fail or require me to change y hardware to that of the developer's pet system spec.
I stand for my convictions and actually care about what I believe in.
Linux is getting to be not worth it. In fact the quality of modern software is not worth it.
Everything is centering over networking issues and data transfer and mindless pretty pictures and their associated programs. Totally unnecessary. Computers are more than networks and the internet. There has been little progress with almost anything for a while. Personal communications via networks, game playing with glittery (but superficial graphics), and music playing are pretty much all that linux seems to be doing as of late.
Yeah that kind of thing is worth several thousand dollars of my hard earned money.
Oh yes my dull whitted AC I do have a job a good one. I just don't see utility in what linux is offering.
Respond to s
I like how you start off saying I was wrong. I kept reading, hoping that somewhere in your post you would bring up a point somehow refuting what I said.
Yet I couldn't find it.
The Amiga was dead by 1991. The majority of the stores selling Amiga were out of business, Software Etc. which had been the only mass market store selling stuff had relegated it to the back shelf.
1995 was when the final nail was driven into the coffin, but the Amiga was dead before the release of the A600/1200/4000. Too little, too late.
Now given that you keep blabbering on about some strange currency called quid, perhaps you'd like to clarify your statements with "Well that may be how it is in the US, but in third world countries it was different."
Until then, I'll just have to take your anonymous coward babbling for what it is... uninformed bullshit.
If I billed myself at $20 an hour trying to get a game like Quake, Alpha Centauri or Terminus to work on Linux I'd probably have enough money to buy a Windows machine. I don't really use Linux that much, but I like to think that one day it will be easy enough to play games on Linux.
The link is www.idsoftware.com not www.id.com
Can't people check their damn links before posting submissions?
--
Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
Yes and No.
Given the current Linux market, I'd agree. Games probably won't sell anywhere near as well on Linux, even given better support.
But there is more than one variable in this equation. If the Linux market changed because of the availability of games, and their ease of use on the platform was better, I'd disagree with you.
I play plenty of games, and I have some experience running Unices. But I HAVE to run Windows at home to get compatibility with my favorite games. I like Q3, but there are a lot of others out there.
What if Linux evolved to the point that you could tell gamers "Hey, we've got a rock solid OS that's easy to install and games run very quickly on it."
Don't you think we'd see a rise in Linux users?
And don't start with the "we don't want those types of users". When it comes to market share, we just need numbers. If the Linux market share rose to %20 don't you think that more software companies would make Linux ports a priority?
cot
These companies have been able to gouge corporate customers who pay twice as much for linux hardware, on average, for server systems, as the hardware is worth. Similarly, while it may APPEAR that Redhat and Suse are targeting the home user, they aren't. They would like for Linux to be used on the desktop in corporate settings, though, especially in thin clients they are hyping as replacements for pc's. RedHat's Bob Young repeatedly states that "the desktop is 80's technology". Well, that's where the users are, Bob.
The goal of all these companies is to sell a linux solution to corporate customers, complete with proprietary ecommerce suites and service contracts and eventually to provide application services on a rental basis as well. If a customer isn't installing expensive servers and/or at least dozens of client nodes (preferably hundreds) VA, RedHat, and Suse really aren't interested. But they will sell you a boxed set anyway at Best Buy or let you order a "starter" system for $1000 without monitor (gee thanks), shipping and handling extra.
This is EXACTLY how IMB treated Os2. Os2 had a great desktop, but IBM was not interested in selling it to home users, only to corporate customers as part of a total IBM solution from mainframe to gateway to workstation. What IBM failed to realize, but MS did realize, is that the system workers and managers use at home is what they will eventually demand at work. People are using Windows now for almost everything at work because MS went out of its way to provide the apps for home users that home users wanted and to market to home users starting with Windows 3.1.
I fear that Linux will suffer exactly the same fate as Os2. Geeks who do sysadmin for a living fail to realize that the client eventually controls the server. They continue to recommend unix servers for Windows clients, but managers and most workers continue to see little reason not to make Windows everywhere a reality. The only hope is that MS will shoot itself in the head with humiliating licenses and restrictions that even technically naive persons can't abide. For example, having to buy a second copy to get .NET updates or if you upgrade hardware.
However, someone with marketing skills also needs to rescue Linux from the INCOMPETENTS running the major Linux hardware suppliers like VA and Penguin, and the major distros. These people think the have a "lock" on the server market and on corporate customers who can afford their exhorbitant pricing schedules. Like most incompetent business persons, they can only perform in areas where they feel they have a lock and are unable to create new markets or take the necessary risks to move into Microsoft's home territory. Nothing risked, nothing gained.
Maybe within another year, when the new XFree4 DRI supports more video cards, sales will pick up. Right now, you still have to be a bit of a hacker to even get hardware acceleration to work in Linux.
The former part is of course necessary, but in no way enough. The latter part is the essential part. It must be made REALLY easy to install support for whatever kind of hardware is present. If it involves kernel patches, tweaking with X configurations or any such things, no ordinary user will even think about trying. Most slashdotters could do it, I'm sure - but we're not representative of the general game-buyer market.
Something along the lines of putting the video card into the machine, booting Linux and pressing "Yes" in the "install drivers for xxx graphics card". If it needs to download some piece of software to do so, then it should. If it needs to rebuild X, then it should. If it needs to restart the kernel, then it should.
I know that it sounds a whole lot like the process for installation on Win9x
Black holes are where God divided by zero
You get the Linux "I know what my friends and I use therefore the rest of the world follows along" blindness award for 2000!
The number of Linux desktop users is not even a micro-blip on the radar, primarily because there are no desktop apps available for Linux that are comparable to Windows apps. You have to intentionally choose to use inferior software in order to choose Linux on the desktop.
Don't fool yourself. I like Linux for servers (although, let's face it -- it's the poorest version of Unix out there), but you have to be the hardest of the hard core to live with Linux and Linux apps on the desktop full time.
And that license thing (Slashdot raving, drooling stories notwithstanding) does not affect the numbers to any significant degree.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
The quote you see was taken from a post by John Carmack to Slashdot a couple of days ago. So, Slashdot is essentially reporting on its own user comments and it doesn't even realize it. :)
I don't know what's up with the Win2000Mag link. Anyone figured that out?
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Agree - there are more mature systems out there that beat out Linux (most of which cost more than a few dollars), but for this grad satudent, I'll stick with Linux and BSD every time.... unless of course someone else is footing the bill... or is it footing Bill?
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I've bought five Loki titles, UT, and just recently Terminus (with Linux support); I expect to buy Alpha Centauri and Sim City once they're released (Loki -- please port The Sims!). I don't run Windows, so if you're a game manufacturer and you want my $$$$ you better code for my platform. Yes, I'll gladly pay extra for the same title released months previously for Windows, because this is a seed market and I want my platform to enjoy success; anyway, it's my moeny. Give it two more years and if Loki, Id, et all are still making chump change then maybe it was a bad bet. Right now, they'd be INSANE to cede the Linux market this early on given it's long term potential.
Ohhhh....you hurt my feelings. Well whatever man. I hope you can code better than you read and interpret POSTS. It seems you don't do a very good job of that. What I was saying and it seems you don't understand Mr. "Outcode you anyway" is. User Friendliness doesn't magically appear you stupid joke of a computer user. If you want to add user friendliness you Linux why don't you get off your ass and contribute and stop complaining about it. You ever think about that or do you make a living criticizing things. Yes I understand the end user needs a user friendly environment but I'm not stupid and it seems you are missing the point. I didn't say the Users NEED to Code their own user friendly environment. You must be a moron please stay away from whatever computer you are on because you are endangering the computer with your idiocity. The programmer which you boast "Outcode you any day" can and should add some user friendliness. If you are so good at programming why don't you add some utilities or features to make Linux better and stop wasting your time on Slashdot recycling old news about Linux not being user friendly enough. Until then maybe you should shut your mouth and keep your stupid half ass remarks to yourself.
The general public will never be able to just code away at thier OS
No kidding genius...At least you catch the obvious and that wasn't the point I was making. Do you ever think before you type??
-The good humor man can be pushed only so far
I know that for almost everything I do there is a superior option available on Linux (the one exception is games, but I do my part to help change that by buying Linux versions even though I can't use them), my problem is not with Linux or the software available for it. My problem is with the documantation and manuals which assume I already know how to use the software. As I said before, even the NHF's I've found assume a level of knowledge beyond mine.
This has turned into more of a rant than I intended it to be. Basically what I want to say is if you're writing man's or other documentation, write it for the guy like me who doesn't know what he's doing. Provide examples. It's really not difficult to do that, and it would be a major step towards acceptance of Linux on the desktop. Just imagine what we could accomplish if Linux was easier to use than Windows!
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
And just how much effort did it take to get those two games working?
Come on, be honest.
Did you download a new version of X for either of them?
Wanted to buy Q3, could'nt find the Linux version, found UT, bought it, forgot about Quake. 'nuff said.
As a result, there are several linux gamers who didn't buy the linux version of Q3a but are still playing it under linux (quite legitimately, as well).
This raises another problem currently experienced under linux; there is usually a delay between the Windows version and the linux version. Thus far, Quake 3 has been the smallest gap (a few weeks) with Soldier of Fortune only being a few months. Games like Heroes of Might and Magic and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri have had delays of over a year. In short, if you want to play the latest games, you have to be playing under Windows.
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Considering the fairly sorry state of 3D acceleration right at this moment, it's not all that surprising. Sure we have XFree86 4.0, but it's been plagued with problems, incompatibilities, etc.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Since most of the blazing-fast video cards didn't have drivers for linux, most gamers went with the win32 version.
The cost of the metal box probably didn't help either.
Desperation is a stinky cologne
I still boot in Windows to play EverCrack. I usually play UT on Linux, but since I just got a new HD, I installed it on Windows as well, and thought I would get better performance, considering some benchmarks I've seen saying that 3DFX cards are 20% faster under Windows. I have'nt noticed any speed up so far, however I've noticed MAJOR crashes, specifically my network connection gets hosed (need to reboot to reconnect) after 1 hour or something fairly regularly ... something that does'nt happen under Linux. Needless to say.
1. Quake III for Linux was released after the Windows version.
2. Whoever bought the Windows version could also buy the Windows version and download the Linux binaries when they appeared and that way get the game earlier, cheaper and for both platforms (use at home and at work). If you bought the Linux version, could you then get the Windows binary as well???
3. The situation for 3D Gaming on Linux is still terrifying with terrible driver support and all kinds of tweaks and downloads to just get it to work. Granted, it's improving quickly, but the situation was even worse when Q3 was released. Linux users are not stupid and I think many decided to buy one of Loki's 2D games instead.
4. The Windows version was everywhere, the Linux version was almost nowhere. That combined with point 2 probably made most dualbooters buy the Windows version.
If Quake III despite this situation covered the cost of conversion, I'm not worried. The 3D support is improving rapidly (expect all new distributions to ship with XFree 4.0 with DRI drivers for the most popular cards) and the retail channels are improving with Linux's continued growth.
Expect Linux conversions of the more popular Windows 3D games to be good business (unless the company has a serious shortage of competent programmers) within a year. 2D Game conversions will get there even faster...
I believe you have to register to read this article... and possibly register for a free newletter -- like I need more junk in my email --
Money cannot buy happiness, but can buy something soo darn close, that you can't really tell the difference
How are you supposed to sell a game when the underlying system does not have any sort of dumb-user-interface for input devices (no way to set up mice except for editing arcane and underdocumented text files, no way to set up joysticks without downloading compiling and installing several programs which aren't readily apparent). Let alone this is an OpenGL game, and at the time only two cards were even supportable (let alone you would have to compile your own version of XFree 4.0 to get one of those supported cards working).
I would think if you want to promote a game, it should be less *work* to get it running. Perhaps if the game was possible for someone to set-up without a compiler, it would sell more copies.
Even the people I know who play on linux bought the windows version - it came out first and they knew it would work, without them learning how the guts of XFree86 work.
id
I've been trying to get the linux version of Q3 in France, but no store I went to had it (or even knew there was such a thing). Of course, I had the option of buying it on Loki, but you know... I just had to have it right this minute.
That, plus the fact that it's dead easy to install the windows version on a Linux box, makes it quite obvious why there was a lot more win32 sales. Just my two cents...
Kueller
I bought Loki's Civ game and I liked it. I enjoyed Team Fortress on Quake1 for windows, but after Quake 2 didn't have TF for free, I basically haven't really given a rip about Quake anymore. Maybe if they started by porting some GOOD games to linux, like Thief and Thief II, the Sim games and such, linux users would have something to buy.
However, Id has the right idea, despite the fact they continually come out with the same style games. Quake was really done well, with the possibilty of the public creating mods, maps, models, etc. I think if any game wants to sell to users from the linux community, it should have these kinds of features and expandibility at the base. Some of us, who run linux, actually like poking at stuff as much as using it. Driver support is still a huge issue, as well. This is mostly due to hardware manufacturers not giving out their specs, though, I think.
See, Linux still has'nt penetrated that far that there'll be every teen using it for his OS.
I can say for sure that the people buying these games is either a sys admin or a developer who doent want to dual boot to entertain himself.
Especially when the rising sales of Linux are only mostly as a substitute to NT, and not to 95 or 98.
So until the kid next door does'nt switch, id can wait.
--Anaplexian
"To define recursion, we must first define recursion."
Right now, there are many games on the market i would like to have for linux but since now i never seen one of this games in stores.
"I know Gentoo" - "Show me"
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
I don't think so. Who's that?
I bought Q3A for linux only... and then got shafted by idSoftware and all of the third party stuff.
I didn't get a copy of the Windows game, so I can't use 99% of the mods that are out there.
And very nearly simultaneously Nvidia backed of from their statements about releasing Xwindow servers. I only bought a TNT2 Ultra because Nvidia made statements positive to releasing drivers. Nvidia has cheesed me off.
Id should stick a Windows version along with the Linux version until 80% or more of the mod makers are releasing for linux also.
To this day, the only dollars idSoftware has seen from me were for the Linux version whenever it has been available, and will continue to be so.
id, Nvidia and others need to realise they need to sweeten the deal a little bit and be a little more realistic in there efforts.
What? Did you read my post? I said that id made Quake. Did I say they made any other games? Oh, wait, mustn't forget Doom! And Hexen II is for whatever reason offered on their Website--maybe some twisted relationship between id and Activision I don't know about. Before you go commenting on other people's comments, try reading the comment.
Basically, Quake is the only major series id has, and while they've released a Linux version, they sure don't bother pushing it. Whether or not they're complaining about low Linux sales, I don't know, because the 'article' was a bad link. However, I do know that sane people can only Quake for so long (unless ytu're born a Quaker, of course, but that's another story!), and id cannot go on trusting that Quake sales will last forever.
Everywhere I look are Loki games. They're packaged with other products, prominently displayed on store shelves, advertised in magazines...That's how you move products--you get them out where consumers will see them and buy them. And you provide a variety of games. I've never had a problem with a Loki game, btw, and I'm very satisfied with their products. I wasn't so satisfied with Quake, and I've heard horror stories about getting the latest id offering running on Linux. With those reviews, I'm truly amazed that id would even break even on Linux games! id needs to get a clue from Loki when it comes to gaming on Linux
Matthew Vanecek For 93 million miles, there is nothing between the sun and my shadow except me. I'm always getting i
It's not like he predicted the Linux version to account for 30% of sales or something. QTest3 for linux accounted for about 2.5% of QTest3 players playing on servers. So he expected maybe 2-5% of Q3 sales would be for the linux version. I say 5% because you would think the game wouldn't have much competition on linux, and linux users would actually buy the game, becuase they would try to present the platform well, unlike windows users who know they will get games no matter what.
Instead of excuses, I wanna know how much he thought the linux version of Q3 would sell, how much it did actually sell, and what percent of Q3 players on the servers are using the linux version.
Well, it's not my fault, I bought the Linux version and just the Linux version. I can wait a few weeks.
The reason I didn't buy any linux games yet is very simple : I can find them nowhere over here in belgium, so it is not surprising sales are low.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
I don't know how well Q3A for linux was distributed in the US, but in the UK it was a joke - I *wanted* to go out and buy a linux version, but the only way I could get my hands on one was to order it online at about 130% of the price of the windows version!
Not what I'd call a fair sales comparison really...
IIRC, it was because they wanted to track the Linux sales separately, and the "registration form questionaire" is too unreliable.
Some companies already ship multiple binaries for Windows and Mac with their games (Myth II, Imperialism II). There shouldn't be a reason (other than the aforementioned tracking) not to ship a Linux binary as well, if it's simultaneously developed/finished. (In fact, were'nt the Q3 "tests" for Linux and Mac released before the Windows versions?)
I bought CivCTP when it came out, and had little if any problems with it. Same with HMM 3. I will buy Alpha Centauri as well. Still its a bitch to setup 3d for games like quake 3 and UT. UT especially is border line impossible if you dont have a 3dfx card. I finally did set it up properly to play, but I spent quite a while on the net trying to find all the drivers, additions to configuration files, things like that. The other thing is that it is so easy to keep a windows partition for games. I dont see a diablo 2 linux version, so as long as I have a partition for that, its just easier to have quake 3 and UT in windows.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
Does it mean it's a waste of time? I dunno, I'm not a business analyst, but if I were them I'd want to make sure I was keeping up on what it takes to make a Linux game.. 'cause some day that return return will come...
Really, you can live with it. It's not that bad. "Hardest of the hard core". A bit much, aint it.
maybe checking them before posting would actually help too
I sure would buy Linux games (apart from the fact that I don't have time for playing games at the moment) if the were sold here in europe also. I think I could get about 2 Wingames for the price of one Linux game (including Shipping and handling to Europe).
Linux games are a great thing at least in the USA.
Greets,
blurred
Obviously a lot of that s due to the word of Tux Games getting out there. A lot of it, however, is the growing Linux gaming market.
Some games are not selling very well at all. Card Games and Casino Games are selling very poorly, but Space Games and Strategy Games are selling very well.
All in all, Linux gaming is fairly small, but it IS growing, as long as you appeal to the right people, which is true for any market.
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
They didn't work right out of the box. When I got Q3 Arena that I paid at least $50 for it didn't work and the bugs were not documented anywhere. It took me a couple weeks to find the solutions in news groups. I had a generic latest red hat install. I figured if they couldn't even get that right, why bother.
One Linux system company has had such an abysmal time selling workstations that they've quietly canned several open source projects that they were previously funding. Can't say the name but let's put it this way: when was the last time you saw an Enlightenment release?
2 out of 3 links broken. Questionable sources. Circlular references to posts on Slashdot, that have already been recinded.
Does anybody even glance at these articles before they post them?
EOF
I would like to predict right now that this article will mysteriously disappear within a few minutes. Such happens to every pitiful mistake of a Slashdot article. :) Come on, guys! All three of your links are wrong! As if that wasn't enough, it's also a repeat subject!
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Make that 3 out of 3 links broken. Lokisoft.com is just a redirector.
EOF
USB support. Yeah, it's there, it works OK, but it's a sweet fuggin pain in the ass to get working. In windows; I plug my rio/joystick whatever in, it's detected, the driver prompted or in most cases automatically set up, and then through the magics of DirectX, all games see it. Linux doesn't have anything even CLOSE right now. Although - the underlying USB stuff is slick - the intergration into the desktop (Gnome, etc) isn't there yet.
Your experience differs markedly from mine. Presumeably you are using the USB backport into the 2.2 series. Fair enough. That's the version gamers *should* be using, but let me tell you, USB is a pretty darn smooth in the 2.4.0-test series, soon to be the new stable series.
My experience with USB under Linux: plug it in and it works. In fact, for me it works *a damn sight better* than Windows. Under windows, my usb web cam runs for about 10 minutes before the picture vanishes, then the only option to get it going again is reboot. Not very useful. Under Linux it never stops (well hardly ever - if I leave it overnight with the lights out it gets confused, but I can restart it without rebooting).
--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I think that their were several reasons for low sales. In my mind the top reasons and the reasons that I did not purchase the linux version are:
1.The windows version was released signifigantly later than the linux version. I am a huge fan of Id's games and bought the game the first day it was available.
2. It is difficult to setp up 3-d for linux - things are getting better, but at the time that quake3 was released I would not have been able to use my nvidia tnt2 with quake3. The drivers simply were not sufficient. Now drivers are available for many cards. However, it is still a signifigant chore to set up Xfree86 4.0 under redhat 6.2 and get the nvidia drivers working. Presumably Redhat 7.0 will fix this.
3. If you buy the windows version you will eventually be able to get the linux binaries. I am willing to dual boot to play quake for a while as long as I will later be able to switch over to linux.
4. Not many retailers carry the linux version.
Aaron Bryden
Aaron Bryden
abrydenREMOVETHIS@gmail.com
I always wondered why companies like id package and sell two different versions of games like Quake 3. If the data files are the same (which they are for Quake 3), why not just package one CD with the data files and both the Windoze and Linux binarys on it?
That way they wouldn't have to worry about the Linux version not selling as well as the Windows one, they just sell the game and people use it under the OS they prefer.
The thing is, games don't sell because of shitty hardware support. Hardware support has not matured because there are not very many games. Things are progressing however, the Nvidia drivers are coming along nicely but are still nowhere as good as the windows drivers. I think Linux/BSD/Other Unices should all band together with XFree86 and develop a new X protocol that will make all Unices known for being media friendly (as well as a server OS). Of course we would need support from the major graphics hardware companies as well. I am tired of this old GUI design thats been around since the dawn of time. All we need is a port/clone of Windows media player, better graphics/video editing programs, and maybe some 3d modeling programs. I hope in the next couple of years this can be accomplished. Wouldn't it be nice to have an all around free (beer and speech) operating system that appeals to everyone? not just the techies?
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
So what? Linux is being actively promoted and used as a real OS for the business comunity. That winstuff plays games has always been it's major claim to fame and the sooner that corporations understand this the quicker they might consider dumping it altogether. Going back over many years (pre. WWW in the workplace) it has been end users loading stupid games that was the primary source of virus infection and I for one would welcome the time when gameboy types bought a windows machine for their own home use and we were left with only proper operating environments at work.
Although that does not mean that there are not alot of copies installed on machines. There is always the slight possibility that some folks around here think that it is ok to steal^H^H^H^H^H liberate copies for themselves to avoid shelling out caasg.
should be to www.idsoftware.com, not www.id.com
Some linux users were attracted to the "free" aspect. So we don't buy much - we download free stuff. Including quite a few games. And then there are those who thinks clever C hacks are more fun than a game.
John Carmack was nice enough not to blame them, but I expect that our collection of hax0ring kiddiez with their '133t linux boxes is even more prevalent than on windows. Of course, I can't disagree with any of his other points when I haven't got my 3d accelerator working under Linux yet. For the amount of games I play, it just isn't worth the couple of hours it would probably take.
If you are modding me down because you disagree with me, use the "Flamebait" category, not the "Troll" one.
You have 100 decorative bags full of dog crap on a table with a big "Free" sign on it and wonder why no one wants it.
I'll tell you Linux people why... it's a piece of crap!
"It's all right, it's ok. There's something to live for" - Uncle Bill
1. The Windows version was available first and you could just download the Linux binaries later.
2. The Linux version wasn't as widely distributed as the Windows version (bn.com didn't have it nor did most online "etailers", local software places here didn't have it, etc)
3. Linux 3D video card support *at the time* wasn't very good, it has improved with the NVidia drivers, XF86 4, DRI, etc. Gamers would buy the Windows version as their hardware would work there, then once it worked in Linux download the Linux binaries.
-- iCEBaLM
When Apple ships all the Macs with Mac OS X, that will give the unix gaming market a shot in the arm.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Is anyone seriously surprised that Q3A for Linux sales are low? If you have the Q3A for Windows CD, all you need to do is download the Linux binary and you are away...
Given that Q3A for Windows was released a significant period before the Linux boxed version, it seems probable that most of the gamers that wanted it already had it by the time the 'Linux specific' product was released, no?
For what it is worth, I own a Q3A retail pack - the Windows version thereof - that I have never played under Windows. Given that there's practically nowhere in the UK that you can buy Linux gaming software retail (there are a couple of mail order places), I don't find it at all surprising, personally. Games, for me at least, aren't things I want to mail order, wait for, pay shipping charges on, etc.
Maybe they should add a 'half sale' for each time the Linux Q3A binary package has been downloaded from their website...
Cheers, Nick.
-- O improbe amor, quid non mortalia pectora cogis!
Windows is everywhere. Like it or not, Windows does a much much better job with games and multimedia right now than linux.
Rewrite the sentence this way:
DOS is everywhere. Like it or not, DOS does a much much better job with games and multimedia right now than Windows.
This simple fact kept Dos alive as the premier gaming platform on PC's for a few years. But not forever. Eventually, the problems with Windows were fixed and the writing was on the wall for Dos gaming.
The writing is already on the wall for Windows. Linux has made tremendous strides ahead as a gaming platform in the last year. Are there any signs this momentum will slow down? No, none. In fact, expect it to accelerate, as many game developers now 'get' this simple fact: it's awfully tough to compete against "free and open". Windows may not be washed up as a gaming platform today, but 3 years from now people will wonder why they ever bothered.
--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I bought Civilization: Call To Power for both Linux and Windows. I didn't intend to at first. I bought it for Linux because I wanted to support the idea of porting some decent games to Linux. I don't remember exactly, it's been a few months, but the UI was crap. The whole package seemed, at best, sort of cobbled together at the last minute. It wasn't really playable. I had to buy a copy of the Windows version (which was, by the way, almost half the price of the Linux version) just to have an enjoyable experience playing the game.
In order for gaming to take off under Linux, the Linux products have to be at least of comparable quality to their Windows equivalents. And if the Linux products are generally crap (I wouldn't know, I only have the one example to go by) - well, the problems with the Linux GUIs are well known. This isn't that different from why word processing and spreadsheets haven't taken off on Linux.
Ref: Miguel's talk at OLS. We really need to fix these problems.
-Graham
Why not include both Win32 and Linux x86 binaries (and MacOS as well) on one CD?
Contrast that to CivII CTP. This setup was a breeze. Maybe iD should team up with Loki to help them work out the distribution/setup kinks.
I've bought a couple of loki's games and am actually planning to do mail order thing to buy three or four more in the near future. I haven't been particularly overwhelmed by Quake III (Ho hum, another FPS from Id) and have no plans to purchase it in the immediate future. I did buy Quake I and Quake II soley on the basis of their Linux support.
Back when I still had DOS on my system, it was my observation that for every playable title that was produced, dozens were absolute crap. Thus far Linux has not been plauged by the titles that are crap and I'd just as soon Linux remain a barrier to entry to games like, Oh, I don't know... Daikatana? The way I see it, Quake III's pretty far down there on the creativity scale and it just doesn't interest me. Maybe what Carmack's seeing is the lack of suckers who will shell out the $50 for second rate material. Of course, I could be way off base here, too.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Sales of Linux 3d games should have been expected to be low prior to XFree86 4.0 and its DRI hardware GL acceleration. Maybe within another year, when the new XFree4 DRI supports more video cards, sales will pick up. Right now, you still have to be a bit of a hacker to even get hardware acceleration to work in Linux. Just go read the article at Tom's Hardware about NVIDIA 3D Under Linux and you will get an idea of what you have to fiddle with just to get it to work.
Nevertheless, I'm running Quake3 under Linux with a GeForce256 DDR and its working fine. I'd like to improve its performance a little if I could by applying the AGPGART kernel patch. Actually, I tried to patch kernel 2.2.16 with the AGPGART patch for 2.2.16 and could not see any option for it in make menuconfig afterwards. Instructions that I found said that after you patch the kernel, you'd see options about enabling it under character devices but I didn't see anything so I deleted the source and went back to a plain 2.2.16. If anyone knows exactly how to patch and enable the 2.2.16 kernel for agpgart, please send me an email - thanks. I'm thinking about upgrading to a 2.4.0 test kernel to see if I can get it that way but before I can think about running a 2.4.0 kernel, I have to upgrade some other system software first.
-- CompTechNews Message Board: http://comptechnews.com/ --
Isn't it possible that many people bought the Windows version of Q3 and downloaded the linux binaries? It sounds like we're talking about strict linux only sales, but is that figure actually representative of how many people play games on Linux?
Calm it there, mate. He likes Linux; You don't; Let's not get personal about it, eh? :-)
Now...let me ask you: Who's responsibility is it to write drivers anyhow? The manufacturer's, with all the specs at their disposal, or an Operating System author's?
My gfx card happens to be well supported, but I didn't get the driver from my distro...I got it from the manufacturer. It's _their_ product, _their_ responsibility.
Sign the FSF's Anti-DMCA petit
Well I can answer the question from my point of view: I have never *ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhver* seen a linux game in EB, Game, HMV, Virgin, wherever. Maybe that's why the aren't selling. Buying from online stores isn't as cool, and anyway, isn't the point to linux more shelf space (which with PSX2 coming up can't be much).
Acting stupid isn't much fun when there's someone around who knows better
Of course, Linux games don't sell that well! There aren't that many Linux desktop users yet today, and they aren't necessarily heading for stores to buy their software, either. Not to mention that Linux is relatively difficult to configure and optimize for gaming, mainly due to complex and incomplete support for 3D, high-end sound cards, and cool input devices (like force feedback controllers).
When an average desktop Linux distro has support for all this in the base install and easy to configure, there will be more people who do their gaming on Linux. Until then, most users who like to play games will probably keep a Win98 partition around for games, and do the rest of their work in Linux. In the meantime, Linux gamers are barely a blip on the charts, relatively speaking, and stocking games isn't worth the shelf space for most retailers. Hell, if Mac users have trouble finding games in stores (and getting them to sell in reasonably large numbers when they do appear in stores), with a million-plus Macs sold every year, then Linux users aren't even on the radar by comparison. In time, they probably will be, though - but it won't be until we solve the problems I mentioned above.
There's money in Linux software for some vendors, and there's probably money in Linux games, too - but patience is a virtue until the desktop is ready for the true mainstream. That day is coming, hopefully soon.
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
When I was standing in line with SuSE and a Linux book the guy behind me asked how long I'd been using Linux. I told him I hadn't but I wanted to try it out. He said that he'd helped dozens of people set up Linux and every one of them had given up after a month or 2 and went back to windows and predicted I would do the same. Now that I've managed to prove him wrong I wonder if it never occured to him that they needed more help than that.
I still use windows for almost everything, but only because I haven't been able to make Linux do anything useful yet. The main thing I've learned is that the Linux community is not as supportive of new users as it would like to believe. I know, RTFM, but FM generally doesn't make any sense. Even the rare NHF's I've found aren't newbie-ized enough, sorely lacking in examples or other truely useful information.
If Linux users want the best games ported to Linux there has to be support, and I don't just mean sketchy OpenGL drivers.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Too bad Slashdot won't ever be what it used to be. 20-30 relevant comments per article, no trolls or spam or flamewars. The articles that were posted were interesting and well researched.
Now days, all that counts is the hit rate. Slashdot is all about getting paid. If an article will generate ~100k hits, it gets posted automatically. All you need is a few magic words. Linux && (Games || vs MS || controversial review) || OSS || Napster/mp3.
Rob Malda and the rest of the Slashdot crew deserve to "get paid". I just miss the old /.
Everything in this post is false.
Well, I have not seen Loki's CivCTP, but I have seen HMMIII, and I must say that it would appear to parallel the interface of the Windows version. It is quite well done, except for the damn overview map that sparkles every 2 seconds! Damn those sparklies! (Is there any way to turn them off?)
There are a whole lot of problems with Linux gaming, but things are getting better.
;^)
Main problems are:
1) Releases like UT (Win32 only, download Linux binaries) and Q3A (Win32 and Linux, but downloadable binaries allow switching between the two) are more like sitting still than getting ahead. Sure, you can play on Linux, but you're not really enticing anyone to convert.
2) When you get games like Alpha Centauri and SimCity 3000 Unlimited that _can't_ be converted from Windows versions, people get pissed off because they don't want to buy the game twice.
3) The previous two points scream for simultaneous releases, but there are roadblocks here as well. Some are easy to see, like getting someone to port it for you if you don't want to do it in-house and the potentially higher price of a Linux port at the retail stores. But there are even some "hidden" political blocks as well that end up keeping Linux back by having the Win32 version of a game released first.
Good things happening:
1) Better hardware support across the board. I think that 3D hardware problems will be over in a year, maybe sooner.
2) More Linux-aware developers. There is the possibility of more in-house development going on, especially with games based on the UT and Q3A engines. And don't forget Terminus, which was three platforms in one box...including Linux.
3) Wider array of games available. Loki and others are working to provide more than just Quake-ish games.
I took the plunge back in October of 1999 to go Linux completely. I still have Windows on my machine (for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that my wife uses Windows when she works from home) but all my gaming gets done in Linux. There are enough games out there that, along with my normal life outside my computer, I can't play them all as much as I'd like to. I'm not going back to Windows gaming unless Linux and Loki completely fall apart.
There are some fairly big movements in Linux gaming that haven't been made public yet...look for some announcements very soon.
matt
PS. Yes, I know that I'm talking mainly x86 machines here. Yes, I know Linux runs on various other hardware. Yes, I know you can play some of Loki's ports on PPC. Thanks.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
You're right. You're simply so high on the evolutionary scale that entertainment really doesn't apply to you.
I'm married, have two weimaraners (a high energy sporting breed), a medium maintenance home, a technical career, and a child on the way....but even with this limiting my free time I can still crank out a competitive CounterStrike match. Please save your pathetic attempts at equating 'smart people' or 'people with jobs, relationships, responsibiilities' with people who have no gaming skills.
Your attempt at rationalizing the reason why QuakeIII sales for Linux were low is a classic example of why the general populace becomes turned off by Linux. It's the homo-sapien/superior attitudes like this that will continue to hamper the progress of Linux in the desktop arena. Please take your wonderful social skills and promote something else.....like drinking the Kool-Aid.
PrimalChrome
I'm not surprised about this because compared to win9x/2k Linux is way to hard to setup. For example I have a GeForce2 GTS 64MB card and no matter what I do it just will not work under the RedHat 6.2 version that I have. Under win2k it just worked on it's owne without any human intervention. WHen Linux can do that then I'm sure game developers will develop more games and more people/gammers will use Linux as the game platform of choice.
This isn't rocket science.. these articles are stupid because they paint linux in a bad light without really looking at the underlying issues, that people like Carmack, Redhat, et al. should be working on instead of useless installers that don't really do anything new.
Linux has a long way to come in the multimedia/gaming/video arena, and I don't see anyone offering any real leadership. I'm still pissed that RedHat can't use that billion dollar market cap to grab NVidia and the other 3D manufacturers by the balls and get drivers released. Oh well.
..don't panic
In Seattle, where I live, the local Electronic Boutique employees love Linux. However, their manager felt that Linux games couldn't sell. So, the manager decided to not stock any Linux title. Aside from Terminus, but that's primarily because it includes the Linux binary instead of being a separate item. Sadly, that's the case for just about every store that I go to; the management feel that Linux games can't sell enough for a worthwhile profit.
Remember, it isn't the publisher or the game company that has the final say as to where their game sells. They can play it up all they like, but, ultimately, the retailer needs to make the order...
Here is where common sense asserts itself. Linux is by no means an easy-to-use (or configure) OS. HelixCode has the right idea, but a loooong way to go before the Average Person can simply run Linux and then run the game of their choice. Video card support under Linux is fairly dissapointing, and we all know that without proper hardware/software accelleration, Linux gaming (or any gaming, for that matter) will go nowhere fast. Perhaps it's just me, but I figure that if programmers would stop cloning other people's projects (how many damn versions of ICQ for Linux does it take to screw in a lightbulb?) and start redirecting their efforts to more necessary projects like, say... drivers? Putting X out of its misery? Getting rid of the archaic commands and replacing them with something usable for everyone? ... Linux just might become a viable platform. Until then, Linux will stay as a utility OS, and Microsoft will have the gaming market cornered.
Regards,
Shikimo
On a side note, if you look at all the comments by people about this, it's rather amusing how few people must have actually followed the link.
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
I wouldn't have expected a Linux game to even break even. Linux is doing amazingly well in the Internet server market, but I didn't think the Linux desktop market really existed yet.
If it's true that the port paid for itself then game manufacturers can now afford to support Linux without losing their shirts. Seeing more games available will encourage users to switch to Linux. Seeing more users will encourage more game producers. Once the positive feedback loop is established things will snowball.
Getting to that break-even point is the hard part. If we've really reached it then this is a significant event.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
If you want to support an OS you have to SUPPORT an OS. That means spend some dinero. I know many folks think that everything Linux related should be "free" as in beer, but if you want device drivers developed by the companies that make the hardware, you have to buy software to drive the market. The company I work for will not commit a single cent into development of a product or even a process unless there is strong evidence that it will lead to profits. I buy Linux titles frequently that I don't even need or use to support the Linux community and encourage companies do the same. The industry runs on greenbacks not technical superiority.
âoeIn theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." â Albert Einstein
Bite the hand.
Personally I'm rather amused with people who say that a less than one year old market has failed. Most new markets are not profitable for 5 years -- let alone break even. This is astounding news really when thought about the circumstances. No standards in the entire market and about 100 different little pieces all fitting together to sort-of make a working product. In my case, I have a Voodoo Banshee (no laughing :P) - it takes Glide3x the CVS version of DRI (from dri.sourceforge.net) and Loki's "made sense of" version of Unreal (cheers to openut.sourceforge.net) JUST to get it to run at all. I am happy that Quake works though. With all these circumstances I'm certianly amazed, happy, and so forth that it has made a bloody red cent. I will continue to support Loki and ID and all these companies who spend time getting 3d & gaming models working.
This is good news if anything
First of all Q3 isnt every linux game out there also most of the games that loki has put out most people have bought for win so why buy the same game again? I would pay for a patch that allowed me to play my win game in linux but not another 40 bucks for a game I already have. Get loki to get a game out at the same time as the win version and then would you see a gain in sales.
The Beaver The Best Things In Life Are Free And So Is Linux!
Why should I as a european invest 30$ of postage&packaging only to get Quake III when I can get it for 40$ at the store? (Although for Windows). Sure, I would love not to have to boot Winblows, but the saved costs leverage this *strain* of booting into Windows. Linux games don't sell well beacause there not availiable in stores (at least not here in Europe, and I believe they aren't very spread in the US also). Also the games that have been released have been availiable for a long time on Windows, and as most Linux users playing games have a Dual Boot setup, most won't buy a game twice (even if it's cool to see at what speed Quake III runs on XF 4.0.1 with NVidia's drivers [0.9-4] these days). :)
For the Linux game industry to be a challenge, it has to release timely with Windows, and be availiable anywhere, in stores, and online stores (as geeks are known to hate quitting their chair
Carmack should shut up and go back to what he does best. With everything I've read the last few days about "Carmack said this" and "Carmack said that", I'm starting to get pretty tired of him. As I said the other day in reply to a post of his, release a game with sensible system specs at the same time as the Windows release, THEN you can whine if the sales are poor.
Still, at least if no more games come to Linux, we'll never have to put up with that shitty Army Men franchise. I will, however, lament the possibility of never seeing Starcraft make it to Linux.
Garmonbozia!
---
The thing that puts me off buying video games for my linux machine is that I'm never sure if my video card is supported or not.
Maybe one cheap and easy solution to this would be it the games manufacturers allowed you to download a tiny test program from their website that just checked to see if your machine is capable of running their games or not.
Another reason that I've not been quick to grab my wallet is that the games that have come out have been typical geek games, not gamers games. Lets see some more arcade type games that you can just do for fun for 1/2 an hour instead of some monster of a game that takes weeks. I want to come home from a hard day at the office and have a brain fart, not figure out how I'm rule the world!
I love Linux. I've been using it professionally for years. I also play a lot of games. But I am the exception, not the rule. The rule in video games is the console market. 13 years old with a little higher than avg. disposable income, and no patience for a command line.
Linux may already be owning the server business on many fronts, and will certainly progress on all, but the "Linux game market" today is a curiousity dreamed up by wishful thinkers and zealots.
Linux makes sense for games when it's a platform for development (a surprising number of popular games were developed under Linux and then ported to Win32 for release) - after all, not having to reboot every time your code tries to spew on the memory or the GUI subsystem is a pretty big dev. advantage.
It may also make sense as a game platform generally, given a proper gaming interface... that is, none at all. If you took out shells, /etc, X, and login, and replaced them all with shiny opaque surfaces, you could have quite a nice, extensible foundation upon which to base, say, an X-Box killer... oops, no DirectX, no large developer base... too bad.
But is it anyone's loss if the gaming industry doesn't make money on Linux even in this decade... or perhaps, at all? As long as Linux is raising the bar on operating systems, whatever would-be monopolist that happens to be current will at least find themselves motivated enough to try (i.e. Win2k). In the meantime, video games will forever trend towards mass market, as an outlet eventually comparable to Hollywood in stature as well as in profits... and part of that is the future of the console: cheap, hot special purpose hardware subsidized by software royalties.
We're on the road to Tycho.
Why don't they just include binaries for all OS's on the CD.. I play games under both Win and Lin depending on my mood (and whats been booted into at the time!!) and I'm sure as hell not gonna buy 2 copies of the same game when i can just buy 1 and patch it to the different OS.. and as all games generally are made for windows i just buy the windows version and patch it for linux rather than the other way round!! Idimmu
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
If you buy either version of Quake 3 you can play
it on both systems. Just download the latest
point release for the OS you didn't buy it for
and copy pak0.pk3 from the CD (or make a symlink
and save 480 MB of disk space like I did). This
is actually explained pretty well in Loki's FAQ.
I play exclusively in Linux, but my money went to
the Windows version because that's all Best Buy
had when I needed to buy it. I needed it for work
and couldn't wait..
"The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson
...it is about serious, stable computing.
If I want a bunch of pretty flashing lights, then sure, M$ is the answer.
If I want scalability and power, then Linux is the answer.
If I want MORE power and stability.... it is time to download the lastest FreeBSD....
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Of the two games from Loki I've bought, I bought one at Hastings (a planned purchase), and the other one I bought at Microcenter (an impulse buy). I suppose I will eventually get Quake, maybe, but that's not really the type of game I play. If id wants to sell its games, then they've got to get them out into the stores, on shelves where people spend hours browsing game titles.
(You noticed I didn't buy my games online, right?)
Matthew Vanecek For 93 million miles, there is nothing between the sun and my shadow except me. I'm always getting i
* Linux still has only a tiny number of users compared to Windows/NT, and even fewer of them use it as a Desktop platform
* Linux software has a tradition of being free (beer, speech or otherwise) and some are just plain unwilling to pay for something they consider should be free
* Setting up 3D-Acceleration on XFree86 is still *HARD*, you have to follow long HOWTOs such as the 3DFX-HOWTO and just the sight of it scares off newbies and intermediate users.
--
Kiro
Why bother with Linux- or *BSD-specific games anyway? Surely it's neither in the games manufacturer's interest to have to create special versions nor in the user's interest to have to wait (and wait and wait) for special versions to come out, if ever.
Shouldn't we be looking for some means of running games intended for Winblows platforms directly on our Linux and *BSD machines? That's how the problem should be addressed: do the work once, and benefit from it thousands of times over.
Of course, that's easier said than done with M$ moving the goalposts regularly, but surely it's not impossible. After all, they can't move the goalposts too far otherwise the games binaries won't work even on their own platform.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
My first thought was "Duh, of course you can't sell a lot of software to the Free Software crowd."
But, I realized that if they're covering their costs, then they're basically getting free R&D. There must be some way to profit from it.
I thought VA Linux was in California. I'm from the N. VA area, used to work in Vienna as a matter of fact, I know VA Linux isn't from that locale... oops found it.. VA Linux Systems, Inc. 1382 Bordeaux Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94089
Please please please tell me you're not serious...
--
--
"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
It's a minor issue, but little things like this will annoy some people and put them off Linux gaming.
Plus of course in Myth and Heroes, there is a significant delay between clicking a button and the click actually registering.
BTW, the Windows versions work just fine for me.
---
I went to Electronic Boutique here in San Francisco and was looking for Linux games. They
had only one up on the shelve (Railroad Tycoon).
I already had that one, so I went up to the counter to ask the sales guy if they had any more. He said, "Oh, we have one in the back -- Quake 3. Do you wanna see it?". I said sure and he got it out. Then I asked him why it was not on the shelf and he said that they were afraid of the special box being stolen.
This is ridiculous. Of course Linux games won't sell if they are not displayed in the stores! Then again Fry's has a big display for Linux and Linux games and they seem to go through their stock, so who knows?
I have never found it in any store so it is
quite lame to bitch about low sales.
I wanted to buy it but couldn't find it
so I ended up with the winblows version.
I ain't about to pay double for one stupid
game.
Perhaps the sales might not have been very
much higher but I fail to see the logic
in complaining of low sales when the ones
who want to buy can't find it anywhere.
Why not bundle the damm thing with the winblows
version? There is plenty of room on the CD.
I would still like to thank ID for releasing q3 for linux so fast. It runs great on my average Cele500 with a V3 card.
The price for q3 was the same for linux as it was for MS windows when the pre-orders started so I don't think that was the problem.
I think 1) alot of linux users are not into games. 2) alot of linux users that are into games play them on windows because they really think that 15 more frames per second is going to make them better on the net. 3) then the guys like me that will buy the linux version because we don't Use windows.
I would guess that the guys that don't use windows at all and play games alot are a pretty small group. And being that I'm fall in the that group I salute you.
Damon
Last one in jail is a fascist.
I am a former Amiga zealot, from 1987-1991 the Amiga was the greatest computer in the world, at least in my world.
:)
The Amiga was actually fairly popular as a game machine, and we had a number of titles available which were quite successful. Most of the Psygnosis stuff, a few crossover games from the Atari ST like DungeonMaster, etc.
But I'd also say that the reality was the Amiga had the highest percentage of software piracy of any platform available at the time.
It came from a couple of basic issues:
#1. Most Amiga users were college students, without much money.
#2. Most Amiga users were afraid to commit a lot of money to their system because it was fringe. That is, there was always this fear in the back of ones mind that next year you'd buy a new computer and it wouldn't use any of your current stuff.
Reason #2 also held true in later years when I turned to OS/2. I never once purchased an OS/2 specific version of software, in fact I knew few people who did. We'd rely strickly upon the Win-OS/2 and DOS compatibility.
What's worse with OS/2 was that reason #1 on the Amiga never even held. Corporations who had money also didn't buy OS/2 software.
Anyway. I think these issues that hurt the Amiga still hold true today, except that college students seem to have more money than we did back then. Working $10/hour jobs instead of $3/hour has an impact on the beer budget.
But on top of that Linux users in general have also taken on this attitude that not being able to afford software isn't the problem, it's those EVIL GREEDY corporations actually putting a price tag on software. Software should be free, and as such it is immoral for one to buy software.
It's a very strange paradox, and one which will never really put Linux in a position of encouraging development from commercial software companies.
Oh, one problem the Amiga also had. We went around telling all the software companies that if only they'd write software we would buy it. Of course they did write software, and instead we pirated it. After a few years of this, a large number of companies simply stopped supporting the Amiga.
Of course we said that was because their software was crap. Of course the fact that we pirated it and used it meant it was not realy crap, we were just hypocritical.
Basic lesson there is, don't tell companies there is a market for something unless there actually is a market.
Most people who buy video games for their PCs want to go buy them at their local CompUselessA. As far as I can tell, CompUSA and other computer stores aren't carrying the Linux versions of the games. If we can't easily buy them, then you expect that the sales would be poor.
IMHO
Deven Phillips, CISSP
Network Architect
Viata Online, Inc.
Wherever you go, there I am...
... most commercial games that I've seen for Linux (the Q* series excluded) are -- in my opinion -- lame. I don't care what O/S I can use these games on; I wouldn't buy them period just because I don't care for them.
The Quake games are it as far as I'm concerned, and maybe Unreal, but the rest (Myth? Watching grass grow is more interesting than playing Myth) are too boring for me to bother buying them. I could start up with the sympathy thing (buy the game just so I can support Linux gaming, even if I never play the damn thing), but I think I can support Linux more effectively by supporting other causes.
(This is not a reflection on Loki or any of the other groups that are bringing games to Linux. This is a problem that I have with game developers, period. Sorry, guys, but your games just aren't interesting to me. Thrill me with something different and I'll buy it. Shoot-em-up games have been done to death, and only the Quake series still seems interesting in this realm.)
which kinda bites...
-------
-------
"don't smoke, don't drink, don't fuck
at least i can fucking think"
Minor Threat
netscape (&mozilla), editpad, eudora, winamp, icq, cuteftp
in linux: netscape (&mozilla &galeon), kedit, pronto, xmms, licq, gftp
i like pronto, galeon and licq MORE than the windows counterparts. and i don't have to use windows dumass gui. i can use blackbox, or somthing else should i so choose. and the whole webserver and multiuser thing...
-------
-------
"don't smoke, don't drink, don't fuck
at least i can fucking think"
Minor Threat
Works great, except the bean-counters think that nobody is using Linux for gaming.
If you want to compare sales, you have to make sure the W32 and Linux boxes are on the same shelf, at the same time, no?
---
Cannot..play..must..HACK
Huh?! There are NVidia drivers and they are great for gaming. No, they aren't open source but they are there. 3DFX has drivers that are open sourced. ATI is working on DRI drivers for the Raedon cards.
Besides, isn't that MS's job to bully people around w/ their money?
3D support isn't that hard to get configured. 2RPM's and a one line change in my XF86Config file got my NVidia up and running fine. 2 Minutes (if that). I agree that it's a turn off to newbies to not have support out of the box but it will happen.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."