People have been working within the system for decades, and look where it's gotten us. These protests are what it means to get involved with democracy when our political system has failed us. "Get involved with local politics" is such a useless answer. How is that supposed to get the board of Goldman Sachs tried for their crimes? How is that supposed to get the Supreme Court to stop making blatantly incorrect decisions?
Suppose these people did run for local office. How are they going to compete with the corporate candidates with no money? How are they going to get the attention of the people who support them without advertising? Well this is how! This is how the people demonstrate that there's a large underserved constituency.
You do have a point though. This is an army without a general. However, the right thing to do is not tell them to give up, the right thing to do is to find them a general.
The people who did the French Revolution "cared enough to get out there" and that did not turn out so well.
It was bad, but France is better for having the revolution. Also, there's no one to blame but the aristocracy.
Were you supportive when the tea party movement "cared enough to get out there"?
Yes, until it became clear that they really didn't mean it. I still feel that we have more in common with that part of the Tea Party that hasn't been co-opted by Fox than either party in office.
What is the plan of the "Occupy" movement? I am sorry, I am not willing to "stand in solidarity" with a group until I know what the group stands for. So, I will repeat, what does the "Occupy" movement stand for?
Returning the power to the 99% of us who should rightly hold it in a democracy.
But the current law DOES reflect what the people want, the court's twisted logic notwithstanding. The people of California don't need a new law, they don't need a new amendment. They need a way to hold these incompetent or malicious judges accountable, and reverse their decision.
You're right. They don't have a focus, yet. The problem is that the problems with our society are everywhere. Do you focus on campaign finance? Do you focus on corporate crimes? Do you focus on the erosion of our bill of rights? ALL of these things are vital issues, it's hard to know where to start. Right now, the most important thing is getting attention, and building solidarity. There's a whole year before the next election.
None of these people have done this before. But damn it, at least they care enough to get out there. That's more than I can say for you and the other nay sayers.
Trying to read the bill of rights as meaning something other than what it says is not likely to impress me. These judges are tyrants, and deserve the fate reserved for tyrants.
Nobody who cares about civil liberties should vote for Ron Paul. Ron Paul has absolutely no problem with the states violating any and all of your rights.
Agreed. I've had no shortage of dungeon-crawling fun since 1993. The Icewind Dale games remain truly first-rate dungeon crawlers and there have been a good few other examples
Such as? There hasn't been an Icewind Dale game in almost 10 years.
For example, your party is always glued together, so other than deciding who is in the front row and who is in the back row, you don't get any of the tactics around positioning that you got in the Icewind Dale games.
There's no reason this has to be the case. When you hit a grid with an enemy, switch to a playfield where you can move your characters however you want. You can even go full tactical RPG like King's Bounty.
As I understand it, the 4th Amendment is generally extended to cover contents of communications, meaning a warrant is supposed to be required for such contents.
There's no "supposed to be" about it. Warrants are required for legal access to personal communications.
However, as I understand it, the current unconstitutional laws make a difference between recent communications and less recent ones
What do you think they're doing now? They're trying, they could use some support. And some help! If everyone who was supportive in principle, but critical of the way this is being done would go down and participate, it would be a lot more effective. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Personally, I didn't. I'm not an Obama voter. Still, he did inspire more hope than any president I've ever seen. People needed hope badly, and Obama was a blank slate. He's not a blank slate anymore, and people need hope even more than they did in 2008. It's going to be interesting to see how it manifests itself this time.
Like it or not, you are nothing but a few chemicals dancing around in your brain. Accept that and own it, and you'll be better prepared to engage the deep mysteries of the universe.
Morality doesn't really enter into it. Either the aristocracy will placate the public, or it won't. If it chooses not to, whatever happens is on their heads. Literally.
Barack Obama who received more campaign contributions from Goldman Sachs than any other politician and then hired Goldman Sachs executives into his Administration left and right is your great hope to address problems that you identify as originating with Goldman Sachs?
Yes, that's the fundamental conflict I'm raising. I use the phrase "greatest hope in a generation" to describe Obama in order to illustrate how little hope we have. Does that make sense now?
1. The Tea Party has been FOX sponsored from the get go. 2. "We come unarmed, this time" 3. See #1.
I say that, and I still believe that the OWS has more in common with the Tea Party than it does with either mainstream Democrats or Republicans. They are the real villains.
If mom and dad are paying for college, you're not really lower class. Poor people go into debt and/or work to pay their way through college.
Not that I blame you if your parents are paying for college. We should all be so lucky. I mean that literally. Every last one of us should be that lucky, and if we were, there would be no protests.
Most of the ones I've seen at these protests were STUDENTS, not grads
Students who are rightfully concerned about the level of debt they need to take on to have a chance at success, and about just how small that chance really is these days.
protestors that show up at EVERY left-wing protest (i.e. college hippies).
Good, people who actually care about their fellow man. We need more people like that.
They show up with their drum circles
Yeah, I'm no fan of drum circles either, but you can't just chant and march all day either. There's not a whole lot you can do without amplification. I think the costumes are pretty stupid too. But I don't know what else to do. If you have better ideas, I'm open to suggestions.
issue forth smug rhetoric
Smug perhaps, but coherent. I haven't seen any "keep the government out of my FAFSA" signs.
blog about fighting evil corporations on their brand-new MacBooks
Because they live in the world as it is, they can't advocate for a better one?
smoke some weed
And? So?
then go back to school when mom and dad threaten to cut off their money.
So not only are they concerned about the welfare of the lower class, they're concerned about the welfare of a class they are not even a part of? Such altruism should be lauded.
Fraud is not legitimate business. Wall Street is nothing more than organized crime, and should be treated as such. Obama could file criminal charges against the board of Goldman Sachs under RICO today. The fact that he hasn't only highlights the corruption in his government.
These people are the best chance we've had to turn around a country that's been headed in the wrong direction for at least the past 30 years. We live in a country where Goldman Sachs can commit thousands of acts of felony perjury, and not one person stands trial. They create fraudulent financial instruments, and pay back a small portion of their ill gotten gains as "fines" (bribes). Yet if I were to write a bad check to cover some groceries, I'd be going straight to jail. There's no way to describe this but tyranny.
Barack Obama, the greatest hope in a generation, is either unable or unwilling to do anything about this. If he's unwilling we have a severe political problem. He was elected to bring us change he refuses to deliver, and we have no way to hold him accountable.
On the other hand, if he's unable, we have a much more serious problem. That means democracy is well and truly dead in this country. The corporations have a complete stranglehold on our government. Unfortunately, this is more likely to be the truth.
Anyone who votes democrat or republican is an extremist. The democrat/republican parties are both extreme corporatist parties. Anyone who suggests sensible policies, like abiding by the limits set forth in the Constitution, or enforcing the law when banks break it, is smeared as an extremist.
The referendum is not between extremists and normal people. It's between people who believe the Big Lie and those who don't.
Slashdot Mirror
People have been working within the system for decades, and look where it's gotten us. These protests are what it means to get involved with democracy when our political system has failed us. "Get involved with local politics" is such a useless answer. How is that supposed to get the board of Goldman Sachs tried for their crimes? How is that supposed to get the Supreme Court to stop making blatantly incorrect decisions?
Suppose these people did run for local office. How are they going to compete with the corporate candidates with no money? How are they going to get the attention of the people who support them without advertising? Well this is how! This is how the people demonstrate that there's a large underserved constituency.
You do have a point though. This is an army without a general. However, the right thing to do is not tell them to give up, the right thing to do is to find them a general.
The people who did the French Revolution "cared enough to get out there" and that did not turn out so well.
It was bad, but France is better for having the revolution. Also, there's no one to blame but the aristocracy.
Were you supportive when the tea party movement "cared enough to get out there"?
Yes, until it became clear that they really didn't mean it. I still feel that we have more in common with that part of the Tea Party that hasn't been co-opted by Fox than either party in office.
What is the plan of the "Occupy" movement? I am sorry, I am not willing to "stand in solidarity" with a group until I know what the group stands for. So, I will repeat, what does the "Occupy" movement stand for?
Returning the power to the 99% of us who should rightly hold it in a democracy.
But the current law DOES reflect what the people want, the court's twisted logic notwithstanding. The people of California don't need a new law, they don't need a new amendment. They need a way to hold these incompetent or malicious judges accountable, and reverse their decision.
You're right. They don't have a focus, yet. The problem is that the problems with our society are everywhere. Do you focus on campaign finance? Do you focus on corporate crimes? Do you focus on the erosion of our bill of rights? ALL of these things are vital issues, it's hard to know where to start. Right now, the most important thing is getting attention, and building solidarity. There's a whole year before the next election.
None of these people have done this before. But damn it, at least they care enough to get out there. That's more than I can say for you and the other nay sayers.
Trying to read the bill of rights as meaning something other than what it says is not likely to impress me. These judges are tyrants, and deserve the fate reserved for tyrants.
Sedition is patriotic. This country was founded in a revolution, and it will end in a revolution. We should celebrate both of them.
Nobody who cares about civil liberties should vote for Ron Paul. Ron Paul has absolutely no problem with the states violating any and all of your rights.
How is the camera part of game play at all? Does chess become a different game if you have a top view instead of a view from behind your pieces?
Agreed. I've had no shortage of dungeon-crawling fun since 1993. The Icewind Dale games remain truly first-rate dungeon crawlers and there have been a good few other examples
Such as? There hasn't been an Icewind Dale game in almost 10 years.
For example, your party is always glued together, so other than deciding who is in the front row and who is in the back row, you don't get any of the tactics around positioning that you got in the Icewind Dale games.
There's no reason this has to be the case. When you hit a grid with an enemy, switch to a playfield where you can move your characters however you want. You can even go full tactical RPG like King's Bounty.
As I understand it, the 4th Amendment is generally extended to cover contents of communications, meaning a warrant is supposed to be required for such contents.
There's no "supposed to be" about it. Warrants are required for legal access to personal communications.
However, as I understand it, the current unconstitutional laws make a difference between recent communications and less recent ones
FTFY.
Even non-sensitive emails may have some value to a government on a witch hunt. It only takes six lines written by the hand of the most honest man...
What do you think they're doing now? They're trying, they could use some support. And some help! If everyone who was supportive in principle, but critical of the way this is being done would go down and participate, it would be a lot more effective. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Sounds like a great teacher. Kids who don't want to learn have no place in the classroom.
Personally, I didn't. I'm not an Obama voter. Still, he did inspire more hope than any president I've ever seen. People needed hope badly, and Obama was a blank slate. He's not a blank slate anymore, and people need hope even more than they did in 2008. It's going to be interesting to see how it manifests itself this time.
Like it or not, you are nothing but a few chemicals dancing around in your brain. Accept that and own it, and you'll be better prepared to engage the deep mysteries of the universe.
Morality doesn't really enter into it. Either the aristocracy will placate the public, or it won't. If it chooses not to, whatever happens is on their heads. Literally.
Barack Obama who received more campaign contributions from Goldman Sachs than any other politician and then hired Goldman Sachs executives into his Administration left and right is your great hope to address problems that you identify as originating with Goldman Sachs?
Yes, that's the fundamental conflict I'm raising. I use the phrase "greatest hope in a generation" to describe Obama in order to illustrate how little hope we have. Does that make sense now?
99+% of people in suits are tools of the aristocracy
Yes, and the aristocracy should be relieved of its tools as soon as possible.
1. The Tea Party has been FOX sponsored from the get go.
2. "We come unarmed, this time"
3. See #1.
I say that, and I still believe that the OWS has more in common with the Tea Party than it does with either mainstream Democrats or Republicans. They are the real villains.
If mom and dad are paying for college, you're not really lower class. Poor people go into debt and/or work to pay their way through college.
Not that I blame you if your parents are paying for college. We should all be so lucky. I mean that literally. Every last one of us should be that lucky, and if we were, there would be no protests.
Most of the ones I've seen at these protests were STUDENTS, not grads
Students who are rightfully concerned about the level of debt they need to take on to have a chance at success, and about just how small that chance really is these days.
protestors that show up at EVERY left-wing protest (i.e. college hippies).
Good, people who actually care about their fellow man. We need more people like that.
They show up with their drum circles
Yeah, I'm no fan of drum circles either, but you can't just chant and march all day either. There's not a whole lot you can do without amplification. I think the costumes are pretty stupid too. But I don't know what else to do. If you have better ideas, I'm open to suggestions.
issue forth smug rhetoric
Smug perhaps, but coherent. I haven't seen any "keep the government out of my FAFSA" signs.
blog about fighting evil corporations on their brand-new MacBooks
Because they live in the world as it is, they can't advocate for a better one?
smoke some weed
And? So?
then go back to school when mom and dad threaten to cut off their money.
So not only are they concerned about the welfare of the lower class, they're concerned about the welfare of a class they are not even a part of? Such altruism should be lauded.
It's mostly a problem of identification
Just put anyone in a suit up against the wall and you won't go too far wrong.
attacking Wall St. business
Fraud is not legitimate business. Wall Street is nothing more than organized crime, and should be treated as such. Obama could file criminal charges against the board of Goldman Sachs under RICO today. The fact that he hasn't only highlights the corruption in his government.
These people are the best chance we've had to turn around a country that's been headed in the wrong direction for at least the past 30 years. We live in a country where Goldman Sachs can commit thousands of acts of felony perjury, and not one person stands trial. They create fraudulent financial instruments, and pay back a small portion of their ill gotten gains as "fines" (bribes). Yet if I were to write a bad check to cover some groceries, I'd be going straight to jail. There's no way to describe this but tyranny.
Barack Obama, the greatest hope in a generation, is either unable or unwilling to do anything about this. If he's unwilling we have a severe political problem. He was elected to bring us change he refuses to deliver, and we have no way to hold him accountable.
On the other hand, if he's unable, we have a much more serious problem. That means democracy is well and truly dead in this country. The corporations have a complete stranglehold on our government. Unfortunately, this is more likely to be the truth.
Anyone who votes democrat or republican is an extremist. The democrat/republican parties are both extreme corporatist parties. Anyone who suggests sensible policies, like abiding by the limits set forth in the Constitution, or enforcing the law when banks break it, is smeared as an extremist.
The referendum is not between extremists and normal people. It's between people who believe the Big Lie and those who don't.