I place 200 for that black birdie down there. wussitsname.. Lumix. Yeah, that's it, Lumix.
For non-finnish reders, 'Lumi' means 'snow' in finnish..
Re:And how are they supposed to measure this?
on
More on MPEG4
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· Score: 4, Informative
Better still. At least in Finland we have this thing called 'tv-license'. If you don't own one, you're not (legally) allowed to listen to the radio or watch TV (in your own appartment, casual hearing is *OK*).
This license is pretty hefty, but it funds 'state's tv station', which shows some very good programs, so I'm personally OK with that.
Of course we have ad-funded (did I mention that states tv-channel doesn't have ads?) channels too.
The point wasn't about handling ipv6 addresses, but about th reason behind choosing 128 bits for _addressing computer interfaces_. There's no much extrapolating in idea that one day a computer will have so much memory that 64bits would not be enough. Yes, it may take many years, but it's still not that far away.
Anyway, there's plenty of use for 128 bit arithmetics, we're just not using things to their full potential.
Then do tell me why ipv6 haz 128 bitz fer de address?
Zooner or lader ve vill find use fer all of those 64 address lines. Sooner than one would expect, I presume. So really, why not push those barriers 'a lot' further. Why not abandon 'bittedness' altogether?
I'd bet there's some decent research on computing sans bittedness. Even perl does that. Damn, some ancient LISP machine could do that.
Well, hell yes, now that all processors hurl at GHz+, well get more and more interpreted languages, it's just so much simpler.
That's a little different. Software bugs cost money to fix. Car bugs kill people.
That's what situation is NOW. Wait for a couple a years and you'll see net used for lots of 'critical' missions (like remote surgery, diagnostics, controlling). THEN a simple DoS (nimbda even) will kill people.
I think this thing should be sorted out before it will become a problem.
And of course having a legislature doesn't mean it's enforced.
Al is metal, it conducts electricity. That's enough to make Faraday cage work.
I really don't think that materials that are used in today's cases are chosen for their emf-shielding abilities, but because of their low price.
It just crashes on me every 3-4 hours. Dunno why =/.
Re:MS Windows vs. X, same hardware
on
Xfree86 4.2.0 Out
·
· Score: 2
I think I fucked up the terminology. Sorry.;) (client vs server)
The point is that the tookit related stuff would be thrown at client (as you call it). To the 'drawing hardware' end. So the server would just pass a request 'draw button at X,Y' and nothing more. Now it is done somewhat at the level of: draw polygon X,Y,W,H; draw box X,Y,W,H; draw text X+2,Y+3,...
This would speed up at least toolkits, as there would be less redrawing related bandwidth waste.
But I'm not sure what would be the total impact..
And I really think that OpenGL style display list would ROCK the X11;)
I'd also consider Jesse Liberty's C++ in 21 Days. I really enjoyed reading it. Very comprehensive and good book. I used it a lot for referencing, until my pointy-haired boss stole it.;)
You can find the book here.
TP560 stands for ThinkPad 560 (or stinkpad as TheInquirer rather likes it), it's a laptop. So I can't upgrade. Which is good, because then I concentrate on making _fast_ applications.
Thanks anyway =)
Ages ago I planned on doing some small application that would make my desktop 'alive'. There would be one backgroud, and on top of it, there would be many small animations going on.. Mouse-activated and all.
For example there would be some view on forest, and there would be birds, monkeys, people walking.. And sound too. You know, all high-res rendered and stuff. I even wrote all the classes and data-types for it.. But I never got around to drawing and actual programming. Damn. What a fine programm would that be..
Re:MS Windows vs. X, same hardware
on
Xfree86 4.2.0 Out
·
· Score: 2
Oh, and the driver thing too, don't forget that.
The driver thing is already there. NVidia, for one is doing it. Half-assedly, though =). (Matrox too??)
You are corect however, that maybe they should separate drivers from infrastructure a bit.
Actually the whole difference of XF86v3 vs XF86v4 was about it. (including binary compatibility accross OS). They have now all the possibilities to seperate drivers from other things.
Re:MS Windows vs. X, same hardware
on
Xfree86 4.2.0 Out
·
· Score: 2
Finally, I didn't quite got your COM rant... if you want things in the server, X terminals to you!
I think he means that for example toolkits should be moved onto server side, which could be potentially faster than what we have at the moment. This could probably also be handled by simple OpenGL:ish 'DisplayList', or 'Macro' which would expand into certain graphic shape.
This would potentially ruin much of the extencibility of X11 system as components should be installed on server before using it. So if You didn't have GTK-5 'extension' bolted on your server, you wouldn't get application to work.
Damn!
You are right. I wondered why I have such a good feeling when working on my gateway machine.
It has a Matrox Millennium card (Matrox is still the best..) and X 4.0.2. It can move windows without suspending updating of other windows.
My 'main' machine however has a GF2MX-PCI, and it cannot move windows without suspending everything else. X is 4.0.2(nv driver) too. That's not nice. I'll check settings.
The problem with X11 is, in part, the separation of client/server; this causes extra latency and a heap of context switches. It probably also has a lot of extra cruft that a new drawing model could avoid.
AFAIK, any _decent_ windowing system has this problem. It comes with clean seperation. Even WinNT with it's bolted-in-kernel vid drivers has to tackle this. On every windowing system the 'client' and 'painter' run in different processes, so evryone is doing context switches.
As everyone says, though, trying to get away from X11 is very difficult as practically every GUI application on linux/Unix uses X11, so it's got a lot of momentum.
Well, amount of _clean_ GTK+ & Qt applications is rising, and both of them can be rather easily ported to different windowing systems. And they have been (Embedded qt, framebuffer GTK+..).
One day if someone will get really annoyed and does something about it.. Well get new windowing systems with GIMP in it =). That'd be nice. But I really doubt any performance gains.
Slightly OT, I was really impressed by Rasterman's evas -thing, It's such a shame he left it in middle (again;). OpenGL acceleration would really do good..
Aah, my words Exactly, there are sensible people on/. after all.
Really, all those raging newbies that've heard 'X11 is shit!' running and screaming it to everyone.. "Scrap it!!!11!".. And the _never_ tell what's so much wrong with X11.
One 'minor' gripe I have with XFree86 (that is, implementation) is that it freezes all other windows while moving one. I've heard it's because XFree86 server is not multithreaded, and it's too much of a PITA to make it mt.
I think we have had our share of this discussion.. =)
But what the hell, let's do it again!
There's nothing wrong with your suggestion. That'd be probably the right thing to to.. If we didn't have such a shitload of X11 applications.
Actually there is nothing _fundamentally_ wrong with X11. As you can observe, even that old architecture has lived far,far longer than anyone would have expected. What it is, 20-30 years now?
The power of X11 is in it's extensibility, XRENDER was added and traparency & antialization is now possible, Even over network, any network. TrueType fonts were needed and were added. XFree86 even had sub-pixel antialization before Windows ever had (those loonies just forgot to mention it anywhere).
X11 is perfect example of OO separation between different tasks. Server does drawing and client does it's own things. And message passing comes 'builtin'.
I know that Debian people are patching 3.3.6 continuously. I get -v3 updates pretty often. And that is good, because 4.0.2 didn't support my crappy TP560+trident. (AFAIK Debian people fix X themselves, and port fixes from XFree86 CVS).
(I'm different guy from parent post, but my system is about same: PPro180@233+GF2MX-PCI)
Thank you very much, but my Snes9x runs _very_ well. And most of the other games I _want_ to play. Most notably myst/civ2/monkey islands/Indyjones&atlantis..
I don't think it's written anywhere that you gotta have universes fastest system to have fun. I sure do have fun.
Is the MS windows kernel preemptible? Does anyone know or is it top-secret?
AFAIK, it is not. I know that in Windows minimum latency is about 10ms, same as in default Linux kernel.
If a kernel is preemptible, can it be used for real time process control?
For what? Do you mean for something like.. robotics control? or shuttle devices control?
For that answer is a bit complicated, you see, even this pre-empt patch doesn't help when there are 'long' locks in kernel. There are situations when kernel disables all interrupts and does its things for long time (like 5 to 20ms). There are not many of these, but they do exist. Now, realtime kernel is one that answers any interrupt 'right away', and can be interrupted 'anywhere'. These are a LOT hairier than pre-empt patch.
If one doesn't have hard time limits, pre-empt patch delivers enough certainty on time-bounds..
Heh, if you want to get spoilers (before monday;), I personally always read Linux Weekly News every thursday. Especially the kernel pages.
Also the Kerneltrap has sometimes news on latest kernel developments (like recent O(1)+preempt patch..).
Speaking of that, they should have full interview with Alan Cox tomorrow..
Slashdot Mirror
I place 200 for that black birdie down there. wussitsname.. Lumix. Yeah, that's it, Lumix.
For non-finnish reders, 'Lumi' means 'snow' in finnish..
Better still. At least in Finland we have this thing called 'tv-license'. If you don't own one, you're not (legally) allowed to listen to the radio or watch TV (in your own appartment, casual hearing is *OK*).
This license is pretty hefty, but it funds 'state's tv station', which shows some very good programs, so I'm personally OK with that.
Of course we have ad-funded (did I mention that states tv-channel doesn't have ads?) channels too.
The point wasn't about handling ipv6 addresses, but about th reason behind choosing 128 bits for _addressing computer interfaces_. There's no much extrapolating in idea that one day a computer will have so much memory that 64bits would not be enough. Yes, it may take many years, but it's still not that far away.
Anyway, there's plenty of use for 128 bit arithmetics, we're just not using things to their full potential.
Then do tell me why ipv6 haz 128 bitz fer de address?
Zooner or lader ve vill find use fer all of those 64 address lines. Sooner than one would expect, I presume. So really, why not push those barriers 'a lot' further. Why not abandon 'bittedness' altogether?
I'd bet there's some decent research on computing sans bittedness. Even perl does that. Damn, some ancient LISP machine could do that.
Well, hell yes, now that all processors hurl at GHz+, well get more and more interpreted languages, it's just so much simpler.
That's a little different. Software bugs cost money to fix. Car bugs kill people.
That's what situation is NOW. Wait for a couple a years and you'll see net used for lots of 'critical' missions (like remote surgery, diagnostics, controlling). THEN a simple DoS (nimbda even) will kill people.
I think this thing should be sorted out before it will become a problem.
And of course having a legislature doesn't mean it's enforced.
Al is metal, it conducts electricity. That's enough to make Faraday cage work.
I really don't think that materials that are used in today's cases are chosen for their emf-shielding abilities, but because of their low price.
98% percent of telco's cost is about those lines buried into ground. Actual cost of switching equipment is minimal.
It just crashes on me every 3-4 hours. Dunno why =/.
I think I fucked up the terminology. Sorry. ;) (client vs server)
...
;)
The point is that the tookit related stuff would be thrown at client (as you call it). To the 'drawing hardware' end. So the server would just pass a request 'draw button at X,Y' and nothing more. Now it is done somewhat at the level of: draw polygon X,Y,W,H; draw box X,Y,W,H; draw text X+2,Y+3,
This would speed up at least toolkits, as there would be less redrawing related bandwidth waste.
But I'm not sure what would be the total impact..
And I really think that OpenGL style display list would ROCK the X11
I'd also consider Jesse Liberty's C++ in 21 Days. I really enjoyed reading it. Very comprehensive and good book. I used it a lot for referencing, until my pointy-haired boss stole it. ;)
You can find the book here.
TP560 stands for ThinkPad 560 (or stinkpad as TheInquirer rather likes it), it's a laptop. So I can't upgrade. Which is good, because then I concentrate on making _fast_ applications.
Thanks anyway =)
Ages ago I planned on doing some small application that would make my desktop 'alive'. There would be one backgroud, and on top of it, there would be many small animations going on.. Mouse-activated and all.
For example there would be some view on forest, and there would be birds, monkeys, people walking.. And sound too. You know, all high-res rendered and stuff. I even wrote all the classes and data-types for it.. But I never got around to drawing and actual programming. Damn. What a fine programm would that be..
Oh, and the driver thing too, don't forget that.
The driver thing is already there. NVidia, for one is doing it. Half-assedly, though =). (Matrox too??)
You are corect however, that maybe they should separate drivers from infrastructure a bit.
Actually the whole difference of XF86v3 vs XF86v4 was about it. (including binary compatibility accross OS). They have now all the possibilities to seperate drivers from other things.
Finally, I didn't quite got your COM rant... if you want things in the server, X terminals to you!
I think he means that for example toolkits should be moved onto server side, which could be potentially faster than what we have at the moment. This could probably also be handled by simple OpenGL:ish 'DisplayList', or 'Macro' which would expand into certain graphic shape.
This would potentially ruin much of the extencibility of X11 system as components should be installed on server before using it. So if You didn't have GTK-5 'extension' bolted on your server, you wouldn't get application to work.
Damn!
You are right. I wondered why I have such a good feeling when working on my gateway machine.
It has a Matrox Millennium card (Matrox is still the best..) and X 4.0.2. It can move windows without suspending updating of other windows.
My 'main' machine however has a GF2MX-PCI, and it cannot move windows without suspending everything else. X is 4.0.2(nv driver) too. That's not nice. I'll check settings.
The problem with X11 is, in part, the separation of client/server; this causes extra latency and a heap of context switches. It probably also has a lot of extra cruft that a new drawing model could avoid.
;). OpenGL acceleration would really do good..
AFAIK, any _decent_ windowing system has this problem. It comes with clean seperation. Even WinNT with it's bolted-in-kernel vid drivers has to tackle this. On every windowing system the 'client' and 'painter' run in different processes, so evryone is doing context switches.
As everyone says, though, trying to get away from X11 is very difficult as practically every GUI application on linux/Unix uses X11, so it's got a lot of momentum.
Well, amount of _clean_ GTK+ & Qt applications is rising, and both of them can be rather easily ported to different windowing systems. And they have been (Embedded qt, framebuffer GTK+..).
One day if someone will get really annoyed and does something about it.. Well get new windowing systems with GIMP in it =). That'd be nice. But I really doubt any performance gains.
Slightly OT, I was really impressed by Rasterman's evas -thing, It's such a shame he left it in middle (again
Aah, my words Exactly, there are sensible people on /. after all.
Really, all those raging newbies that've heard 'X11 is shit!' running and screaming it to everyone.. "Scrap it!!!11!".. And the _never_ tell what's so much wrong with X11.
One 'minor' gripe I have with XFree86 (that is, implementation) is that it freezes all other windows while moving one. I've heard it's because XFree86 server is not multithreaded, and it's too much of a PITA to make it mt.
I think we have had our share of this discussion.. =)
But what the hell, let's do it again!
There's nothing wrong with your suggestion. That'd be probably the right thing to to.. If we didn't have such a shitload of X11 applications.
Actually there is nothing _fundamentally_ wrong with X11. As you can observe, even that old architecture has lived far,far longer than anyone would have expected. What it is, 20-30 years now?
The power of X11 is in it's extensibility, XRENDER was added and traparency & antialization is now possible, Even over network, any network. TrueType fonts were needed and were added. XFree86 even had sub-pixel antialization before Windows ever had (those loonies just forgot to mention it anywhere).
X11 is perfect example of OO separation between different tasks. Server does drawing and client does it's own things. And message passing comes 'builtin'.
So what is really wrong with X11? You tell me.
Is anyone still maintaining XFree86 3.3.x?
I know that Debian people are patching 3.3.6 continuously. I get -v3 updates pretty often. And that is good, because 4.0.2 didn't support my crappy TP560+trident. (AFAIK Debian people fix X themselves, and port fixes from XFree86 CVS).
Hey, I think these guys are simply cool..
Check out this BSA guy.. =D
because whatever it is that "Star Ballz" is gonna be, from the looks of things, it's going to be better than Episode 2!
Hmm.. Do you think N'Sync's gonna star?
If so, then we should run out to the woods and hide..
(I'm different guy from parent post, but my system is about same: PPro180@233+GF2MX-PCI)
Thank you very much, but my Snes9x runs _very_ well. And most of the other games I _want_ to play. Most notably myst/civ2/monkey islands/Indyjones&atlantis..
I don't think it's written anywhere that you gotta have universes fastest system to have fun. I sure do have fun.
Well one reason could be that Linux performs better on P4/2.2GHz than WinXP does. If more games would perform better. the more people would play on Linux ;)
Is the MS windows kernel preemptible? Does anyone know or is it top-secret?
AFAIK, it is not. I know that in Windows minimum latency is about 10ms, same as in default Linux kernel.
If a kernel is preemptible, can it be used for real time process control?
For what? Do you mean for something like.. robotics control? or shuttle devices control?
For that answer is a bit complicated, you see, even this pre-empt patch doesn't help when there are 'long' locks in kernel. There are situations when kernel disables all interrupts and does its things for long time (like 5 to 20ms). There are not many of these, but they do exist. Now, realtime kernel is one that answers any interrupt 'right away', and can be interrupted 'anywhere'. These are a LOT hairier than pre-empt patch.
If one doesn't have hard time limits, pre-empt patch delivers enough certainty on time-bounds..
Heh, if you want to get spoilers (before monday ;), I personally always read Linux Weekly News every thursday. Especially the kernel pages.
Also the Kerneltrap has sometimes news on latest kernel developments (like recent O(1)+preempt patch..).
Speaking of that, they should have full interview with Alan Cox tomorrow..