Why are binary log files such a big issue? First, Linux already is using binary log files in wtmp, secondly, you can still use text log files in systemd, and third, you can see binary log files just as well as text files. Because there is actually no difference between binary files and text files.
And as a result, when you do/etc/init.d/apache stop, apache stops. When you do/etc/init.d/apache start, (drumroll please), apacghe starts. Just exactly what he said.
That is exactly what systemd does, without all the hacks of the script. And with systemd I can finally be sure if Apache started or not, and I can put a dependency to (for example) mysqld, because most web sites are using MySQL as database. All of that is not possible without major hacks in Sysvinit.
/sbin/manage start apache
Like "/usr/bin/systemctl apache start"?
add a helper app that runs the daemon in a cgroup and sticks around to manage it?
That is exactly what systemd is, but it does per default for all services. You can still use script hackery if you want to.
Debian voted, and their technical committee made the best decision for the distribution. Ubuntu, Redhat and Suse are depended on their users, because they have profit based companies behind it.
Debian voted on the default init system. Ubuntu and Redhat and Suse making money from their distributions, it's in their best interest what their users want.
Are you such narzistic ass that wants to dictate the developers of free software which libraries they dare to use? If Gnome, KDE, Gnumeric, or who ever wants to use systemd for whatever reasons, it is the choice of those developers. If you don't like it, you are free to fork those projects.
Firstly, many software packages of a distribution are "forced down people throats", like Xorg, the Linux Kernel, kdm, gdm, and so on. All of those needs a lot of work if you try to switch. Secondly, how is systemd removing options from you? And how does Sysvinit magically preserves for you to keep your old init scripts with new init systems? Thirdly, you can script us much as you want with systemd. Systemd just offers you the option to drop your script hackery, like start daemon with start-stop-daemon, logging, and observation of the service via sockets or pid files.
Debian, Ubuntu, Redhat, Fedora, Suse, all switching to systemd. Those distributions together represent the vast majority of Linux users. To say that systemd does not have an overwhelming support, is just idiotic.
What are you talking about!?! my rc.httpd starts/stops apache, period... my rc.ntpd starts/stops ntpd, period... I could go on.
You are kidding right? The/etc/init.d/apache2 have 282 lines, which such nice loops like "# wait until really stopped if [ -n "${PID:-}" ]; then i=0 while kill -0 ${PID:-}" 2>/dev/null; do..." that are obsolete in systemd, and hackery like "if $APACHE2CTL configtest >/dev/null 2> then # if the config is ok than we just stop normaly $APACHE2CTL stop 2>&1 | grep -v 'not running' >&2 || true else..."
The/etc/init.d/ntp have 92 lines, which hackery like "if [ -z "$UGID" ]; then log_failure_msg "user \"$RUNASUSER\" does not exist" exit 1 fi lock_ntpdate start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --oknodo --pidfile $PIDFILE --startas $DAEMON -- -p $PIDFILE $NTPD_OPTS status=$? unlock_ntpdate", which are also obsolete with systemd.
YES, yes I have. Windows with it's registry and svchost reminds me ALOT of systemd.
systemd have plain text file configuration under/etc that uses links to system services. It is nothing at all like Windows registry.
But it is certainly true. If a species have a long generation cycle, then you must just wait long enough. You can make an experiment that spans 200 years or more.
PS: and it's not an ad hominem to call you an idiot, if I can demonstrate that you are an idiot. Which I did. systemd uses journald for its own internal logging. It's like in my applications that I write I use logback (Java logging) and you are asking if you could replace logback with your own logging framework. You could, if you hack my application. But what is the point of it.
My answer is that you are an idiot, and I explained with my previous post why. systemd uses journald for its own internal logging. You could hack systemd to use something else.
systemd uses journald for its own internal logging. You just asked, can I pull the network stack of the Linux kernel and use my own. But you can use syslog in systemd for your own stuff.
Linux have binary log files for years, and nobody complained about it. See/var/log/wtmp http://linux.die.net/man/5/wtm... And it wasn't "railroaded". Debian had a vote in the TC and Ubuntu choose to use systemd instead of their own. How is that in any way "railroaded"?
Seems like configuration should be a single file that lists the programs to start from top to bottom. If you wanted add some parallel start-ups, it seems like you could just make the config file format a little fancier, maybe with some braces or indentation to express dependency.
How many times is this lie going to be repeated. Systemd does not put everything "into one application". Systemd consists of many separate applications and daemons, many of them not even link against systemd. The developers of systemd have all of those separate apps and daemons in one code repository, but you can pull each of them out and compile each of them separatly.
You can deactivate all animations with 4 clicks. System Settings -> Desktop Effects -> Animation Speed Instant -> Apply Huge icons? If the icons are too big click on the tool-bar and set Icon Size [x] Small. "understand how to use it" What? KDE 4 is like the desktop in KDE 1. ""Activity"? Is it a workspace?" Who cares, don't use it, don't worry about it.
The cold temperature also ensures that the fluid, known as a Bose-Einstein condensate, provides a silent medium for the passage of sound waves that arise from quantum fluctuations.
The sound waves arises from quantum fluctuations, and those sound waves can propagate through the medium because it is a Bose-Einstein condensate, i.e. it have almost(?) zero resistance to sound waves. So that experiment is acutally measuring quantum fluctuations.
It depends on the situation. What you certainly do not have is unlimited free speech. Brandenburg v. Ohio "The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action." And further, Justice Frank Murphy "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or “fighting” words – those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace."
In addition, NSLs do prohibit political speech, in that we'd need to hear from people who have been sent them in order to come up with a reasonable grievance to petition for redress, so the automatic gag is Constitutionally iffy even by your standards.
Your whole argument is BS. The 1th is not that you have the unlimited power to say whatever you feel like, and that your government cannot make laws restricting you to say whatever you want. The 1th is about political speech and freedom of religion. The 1th does not give you the right to incite hate speech or incite any form of crime or cause any form of harm. Your rights ends when they infringe on other people rights, and the government is elected to ensure the rights of all.
This sort of thing is exactly what the Bill of Rights is meant to protect us against.
You would be correct if the NSLs would prohibit somebody to excercise political speech or religion. But congress is perfectly in its rights to limit your free speech to protect other citizens rights. Like, you have no 1th right to shout fire in a crowded theater and thus cause a panic and maybe the death of some people. Or you have no 1th right to tell people to kill some other people.
You do realize that the 1th does not trump all the other ammendments of the constitution only because it is the first? That is why your government can arrest you for a crime, for example, and thus restricting your 1th, 2th, etc.
Slashdot Mirror
No, but I copied what $smart_kid did. And binary log files are smart.
No, kdm is for the KDE environment, gdm for Gnome. You can have some problems by using gdm for KDE or kdm for Gnome or vice-versa.
Why are binary log files such a big issue? First, Linux already is using binary log files in wtmp, secondly, you can still use text log files in systemd, and third, you can see binary log files just as well as text files. Because there is actually no difference between binary files and text files.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/ind...
# journalctl -b | grep NetworkManager
And as a result, when you do /etc/init.d/apache stop, apache stops. When you do /etc/init.d/apache start, (drumroll please), apacghe starts. Just exactly what he said.
That is exactly what systemd does, without all the hacks of the script. And with systemd I can finally be sure if Apache started or not, and I can put a dependency to (for example) mysqld, because most web sites are using MySQL as database. All of that is not possible without major hacks in Sysvinit.
Like "/usr/bin/systemctl apache start"?
add a helper app that runs the daemon in a cgroup and sticks around to manage it?
That is exactly what systemd is, but it does per default for all services. You can still use script hackery if you want to.
Debian voted, and their technical committee made the best decision for the distribution. Ubuntu, Redhat and Suse are depended on their users, because they have profit based companies behind it.
Debian voted on the default init system. Ubuntu and Redhat and Suse making money from their distributions, it's in their best interest what their users want.
Are you such narzistic ass that wants to dictate the developers of free software which libraries they dare to use?
If Gnome, KDE, Gnumeric, or who ever wants to use systemd for whatever reasons, it is the choice of those developers. If you don't like it, you are free to fork those projects.
Firstly, many software packages of a distribution are "forced down people throats", like Xorg, the Linux Kernel, kdm, gdm, and so on. All of those needs a lot of work if you try to switch. Secondly, how is systemd removing options from you? And how does Sysvinit magically preserves for you to keep your old init scripts with new init systems? Thirdly, you can script us much as you want with systemd. Systemd just offers you the option to drop your script hackery, like start daemon with start-stop-daemon, logging, and observation of the service via sockets or pid files.
Debian, Ubuntu, Redhat, Fedora, Suse, all switching to systemd. Those distributions together represent the vast majority of Linux users. To say that systemd does not have an overwhelming support, is just idiotic.
What are you talking about!?! my rc.httpd starts/stops apache, period... my rc.ntpd starts/stops ntpd, period... I could go on.
You are kidding right? The /etc/init.d/apache2 have 282 lines, which such nice loops like "# wait until really stopped if [ -n "${PID:-}" ]; then i=0 while kill -0 ${PID:-}" 2> /dev/null; do ..." that are obsolete in systemd, and hackery like "if $APACHE2CTL configtest > /dev/null 2> then # if the config is ok than we just stop normaly $APACHE2CTL stop 2>&1 | grep -v 'not running' >&2 || true else ..."
The /etc/init.d/ntp have 92 lines, which hackery like "if [ -z "$UGID" ]; then log_failure_msg "user \"$RUNASUSER\" does not exist" exit 1 fi lock_ntpdate start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --oknodo --pidfile $PIDFILE --startas $DAEMON -- -p $PIDFILE $NTPD_OPTS status=$? unlock_ntpdate", which are also obsolete with systemd.
YES, yes I have. Windows with it's registry and svchost reminds me ALOT of systemd.
systemd have plain text file configuration under /etc that uses links to system services. It is nothing at all like Windows registry.
But it is certainly true. If a species have a long generation cycle, then you must just wait long enough. You can make an experiment that spans 200 years or more.
You can write your own application that communicates with systemd-ask-password. What is your point?
PS: and it's not an ad hominem to call you an idiot, if I can demonstrate that you are an idiot. Which I did.
systemd uses journald for its own internal logging. It's like in my applications that I write I use logback (Java logging) and you are asking if you could replace logback with your own logging framework. You could, if you hack my application. But what is the point of it.
My answer is that you are an idiot, and I explained with my previous post why.
systemd uses journald for its own internal logging. You could hack systemd to use something else.
Sure you can. systemd-ask-password is not even linking systemd.
% ldd /usr/bin/systemd-ask-password /lib64/libselinux.so.1 (0x00007f07acb03000) /lib64/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007f07ac8ed000) /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x00007f07ac52e000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00000033b9800000) /lib64/libpcre.so.1 (0x00007f07ac2c8000) /lib64/liblzma.so.5 (0x00007f07ac0a3000) /lib64/libdl.so.2 (0x00007f07abe9e000) /lib64/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007f07abc81000)
linux-vdso.so.1 => (0x00007fffb5daa000)
libselinux.so.1 =>
libgcc_s.so.1 =>
libc.so.6 =>
libpcre.so.1 =>
liblzma.so.5 =>
libdl.so.2 =>
libpthread.so.0 =>
systemd uses journald for its own internal logging. You just asked, can I pull the network stack of the Linux kernel and use my own.
But you can use syslog in systemd for your own stuff.
Linux have binary log files for years, and nobody complained about it. /var/log/wtmp http://linux.die.net/man/5/wtm...
See
And it wasn't "railroaded". Debian had a vote in the TC and Ubuntu choose to use systemd instead of their own. How is that in any way "railroaded"?
Seems like configuration should be a single file that lists the programs to start from top to bottom. If you wanted add some parallel start-ups, it seems like you could just make the config file format a little fancier, maybe with some braces or indentation to express dependency.
Just like systemd service files?
How many times is this lie going to be repeated. Systemd does not put everything "into one application". Systemd consists of many separate applications and daemons, many of them not even link against systemd. The developers of systemd have all of those separate apps and daemons in one code repository, but you can pull each of them out and compile each of them separatly.
Large portion of users? Lets see. Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat, Suse all use systemd. Where is this large portion of users, please?
You can deactivate all animations with 4 clicks. System Settings -> Desktop Effects -> Animation Speed Instant -> Apply
Huge icons? If the icons are too big click on the tool-bar and set Icon Size [x] Small.
"understand how to use it" What? KDE 4 is like the desktop in KDE 1.
""Activity"? Is it a workspace?" Who cares, don't use it, don't worry about it.
The cold temperature also ensures that the fluid, known as a Bose-Einstein condensate, provides a silent medium for the passage of sound waves that arise from quantum fluctuations.
The sound waves arises from quantum fluctuations, and those sound waves can propagate through the medium because it is a Bose-Einstein condensate, i.e. it have almost(?) zero resistance to sound waves. So that experiment is acutally measuring quantum fluctuations.
Your comment is funny, because the very article for this thread is about neurological research.
It depends on the situation. What you certainly do not have is unlimited free speech.
Brandenburg v. Ohio "The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."
And further, Justice Frank Murphy "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or “fighting” words – those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace."
In addition, NSLs do prohibit political speech, in that we'd need to hear from people who have been sent them in order to come up with a reasonable grievance to petition for redress, so the automatic gag is Constitutionally iffy even by your standards.
You need to prove that in a court.
Or maybe English is just not my first language.
Your whole argument is BS. The 1th is not that you have the unlimited power to say whatever you feel like, and that your government cannot make laws restricting you to say whatever you want. The 1th is about political speech and freedom of religion. The 1th does not give you the right to incite hate speech or incite any form of crime or cause any form of harm. Your rights ends when they infringe on other people rights, and the government is elected to ensure the rights of all.
This sort of thing is exactly what the Bill of Rights is meant to protect us against.
You would be correct if the NSLs would prohibit somebody to excercise political speech or religion. But congress is perfectly in its rights to limit your free speech to protect other citizens rights. Like, you have no 1th right to shout fire in a crowded theater and thus cause a panic and maybe the death of some people. Or you have no 1th right to tell people to kill some other people.
You do realize that the 1th does not trump all the other ammendments of the constitution only because it is the first? That is why your government can arrest you for a crime, for example, and thus restricting your 1th, 2th, etc.