Wow, that's a lot of money. However, check this out: a 25 license version of windows 2000 Advanced Server cost $4000. That's only for 25 clients! http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/adv ancedserve r/howtobuy/pricing/default.asp
Unlimited client license for Mac OS X Server (v10.2) is only $1000. So even if you pay for OS 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6 you will still come out ahead if you had chosen microsoft's products.
I have my own distro in the works, it's called Prometheus (used to be called SimplyGNUstep). I have never fooled myself into thinking that I could make a million dollars (or any amount really) from making it. I do have one idea though... I have been thinking that for the next release, which will be at the beta level but still usable, to package the install cd-roms in some nice fashion and auction them on eBay. The cost to do this would be about $5 a set. It would involve putting nice labels on the cd-roms (install and source disc), a little quickstart booklet, and a nice, labeled DVD type case.
I was thinking of starting the bid of these at $10, which will gurantee I will make $5 a copy, which seems fair to me. Any bids over $10 will be distributed among opensource organizations. Since Prometheus is totally dependent of GNUstep, a large percentage would go to them, as for the rest, who knows.
This way, there is an easy way to pay for a nicely packaged product, plus, you can donate as much as you feel like donating.
On another note, I wish there was a central web-site one could go to learn about donating money to opensource projects (maybe there is one already).
Ok, apple most likely isn't going to go with Intel CPUs, but one of your reasons is wrong. Mac OS X binaries are capable of being FAT. They can contain both PPC and Intel instructions. OS X binaries are actually folders which can contain multiple architecture implementations within them. This also applies to the "libraries". Ok, the Framework bundles.
As far as broadcating TV and radio and censorship, this is true. However, aside from that anything goes. You wanna make a cable program with people having sex with pigs or whatever, you can. You want to stream radio on the internet talking trash about our politicians you can do that too. The main exception here is the *public* broadcast of TV and radio.
"Why not just escort them to the other side?" That's fine if one or two people do this. But you let one person do it, then there will 2, then 4, then 2000. What will you do then, what kind of securtiy will end up being present? that's right, none.
I see, it is somewhat confusing because most people have never used a lightweight window manager. OS X has a 20K process called "Window Manager", all it knows how to do is keep track of where windows are, where the mouse is, keystrokes, etc. It is the clients responsibility to actually draw stuff. The client asks the Window Manager for a shared piece of memory to draw to. When the client is done it tells the server and the server then blits this pixmap and keeps it in memory for later use (double buffering). This is basically what Xrender does. Note that it is the client which also draws the window frame, decorations, etc, there is no "Window Manager" like there is on X11.
Now, the clients do have access to PDF intepreters, but they run in the client only. no "code" is sent to the server. This is the fastest way to do this. ala XRender stuff. Of course, this type of graphics system does not work with remote connections.
I thought XRender prevented remote display functionality?
X11 is ok, but something like quartz does it so much smaller, simpler, and faster.
Dude, you've got it all wrong. People often say that Quartz is almost like Display Postscript, but it's not at all. Display Postscript involved creating actual postscript code and sending it to a postscript intepretor for display on the screen. Quartz does not do that. However, it does share almost the same exact API as Display Postscript did, so I can understand the confusion.
Anyhow, Display Postscript was not intended to be an extension to X11, that came AFTER it was implemented on NeXT. Remember OpenStep on Sun and HP, thise systems only had Xwindows, so a XDPS system was needed for them only.
Another point, XRender works very similarly to how Quartz does. That is, clients draw in a pixmap and ask the Server to draw it (vs. asking the Server to just draw it). The WindowServer in OS X is kinda like a XRender only X11. Drawing commands are not sent to the WindowServer, only the client's pixmap of what their windows should contain is "sent" (shared really) to the Server. Hence, a lightwieght Window Manager.
Well, with Quartz you get a lot more than a pretty gui. You get a very fast, path based graphics, with free anti-aliasing to boot. This is not there just for looks! It has real uses. Sure, people complain how slow Quartz can be and I admit that it is very slow when resizing windows, but XFree86 is actually slower on hardware with similar speeds, Don't believe me? Run the newest KDE with all the effects on (like animations) and AA fonts on a 500MHz machine, then play with OS X on a 500MHz iMac, You'll find Quartz to not only be faster, but better looking to boot.
Don't diss Quartz, it can do awesome stuff (microsoft's GDI+ doesn't stack up to it either.)
Using Quartz, you can actually draw things at theSUB-pixel level, it does this by varying the intensity of what you draw and can be very useable in real world appliations. Imagine software for planning projects and suchusing timelines. With Quartz, you could zoom in and out of the timeline in real-time AND be able to actually READ and see the diagrams even at 10% of their normal size!
This is really bad news, Apple is trying to get existing win users to switch to Macs. But this is counte-productive. This is what's going to happen at the local computer store:
1. Customer walks in store and asks the salesman about these great Macs they've heard about on TV so much. 2. Customer is told about why a Mac is so much better, and that iTools is really cool. 3. Customer is convinced, buys a new iMac, takes it home and turns it on. 4. Customer is persuaded via the Macs initial setup to use iTools. (.Mac, whatever) 5. Customer discovers that in addition to their computer costing much more than a Win Box, they're expected to pay an extra $100 a year just to use one of the Macs best features (iTools). 6. Customer returns iMac to store, gets a Compaq or something. 7. Retailers get pissed and stop selling Macs. 8. Apple loses
They have 4 266MHZ Pentium IIs at almost $700 each! So about 1.1GHZ of CPU speed combined. And how much did it cost all together? Around $8000!
It may have been fun to build it but come on. Just buy a 1GHZ Book Style Case PC for well under a $1000. It would be even smaller, consume less electricity, and probably be more reliable since there are less parts.
I searched all the replies and was surprised that nobody has even mentioned GNUstep.
I'm currenty working on a project called SimplyGNUstep which aims to be the Mac OS X for Intel and likely other archs as well.
This will give everyone a source compatible version of OS X, minus Aqua.
I'm also working on an OpenSource (LGPL) Carbon API called Graphite, which will actually be a c-bridge to the GNUstep API, all Carbon apps compiled on Graphite will actually be objective-c GNUstep (Cocoa) apps (quite different than how Apple implemented Carbon os OS X)
SimplyGNUstep was posted on slashdot last month and I've been steadily redoing the source tree to allow easy maintenence and portability, the source will be available within 2 months (I don't want to release it until it's good cause it has to be built as "root" and can damage systems). This source tree actually builds the distro cds, it the FULL source. Graphite is in the planning/early coding stages and seems to be feasible, source should be avail at about the same time the next SimplyGNUstep is released.
If you guys and gals really want a OS X on x86, then help me out! When the source tree is put on cvs (it is a 1GB+ tree though) helping out will be snap!
A non GNUstep thing that can be very helpfull is a vmware linux video framebuffer, anybody wanna pick this up?
That's fair, but change it around a bit and apple comes out on top.
First of all, make it a SCSI system, add the ability to insert a wireless ethernet card, add firewire, ad 1GBit ethernet, add the ability to to hook up 2 monitors, add the ability to write DVDs, add movie making software worth a damn, and finally compare all this with the dual cpu systems.
What you end up with are systems priced almost exactly the same, with the apple being more reliable and cheaper (OS updates are FREE)
The result being that if you're looking for a professional digital media system, apple is the way to go. if you're looking for a reliable home use system Dell, Compaw, etc are cheaper, but not much, you can pick up a iMac for $799 that can do wonderfull stuff and is so damn simple to use it's scary.
Sourceforge has a policy of not allowing DLs of files over 100MB, I broke that limit with my 110MB ISO image, so they took read access form the file to everybody but me.
If someone would like to offer a mirror I would appreciate it very much!
The problem is the way sourceforge does uploads. Everytime I have tried to upload the sio image for SimplyGNUstep to the/incoming directory somebody moves it before the upload is complete. This has happened tie and time again and is very frustrating.
For now, just got to http://simplygnustep.sourceforge.net and download it there.
Most people don't realize this, but Office X has a very interesting "feature"
If you are on a LAN and try to run an instance of Office X that has the same serial number Office X will detect this and not allow you to run the new instance!
The BeOS was designed to do thread switches extremely quickly and the Kits are built around that fact.
For example, every single GUI element of a BeOS app is at least 1 thread, possibly more...
Linux was not designed to create and destroy such a large amount of threads so frequently.
If the system is not accessed physically then you can set up the logs to print out to an old-fashioned dot-matrix printer, even root access can't erase those:-)
Well, all tech stocks seem to be in the tanks.
As for processor speed, the new G4s run at 733MHz, not 500MHz.
What alternative architectures are hurting Apple, PCI, AGP, USB, FireWire, PCMCIA, IDE?
As for Apple opening up their hardware, i don't know, maybe, it won't happen though.
As for their software, OS X is quite open, you even have GNUstep which is striving for Mac OS X compatibility.
Well, as far as bevelled buttons and soft colors go, OpenLook had that a long long time ago. I loved that interface, it may not have had the best widget set, but it was very pleasant to the eye.
Re:...but will it keep up with the upgrades?
on
Laser-equipped 747
·
· Score: 1
Hmm, Why is this an issue, after all, pigeons don't travel at Mach 3!
If you have any info relating to weapon systems having difficulties like this, please divulge.
Slashdot Mirror
Wow, that's a lot of money. However, check this out:v ancedserve r/howtobuy/pricing/default.asp
a 25 license version of windows 2000 Advanced Server cost $4000.
That's only for 25 clients!
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/ad
Unlimited client license for Mac OS X Server (v10.2) is only $1000. So even if you pay for OS 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6 you will still come out ahead if you had chosen microsoft's products.
I have my own distro in the works, it's called Prometheus (used to be called SimplyGNUstep). I have never fooled myself into thinking that I could make a million dollars (or any amount really) from making it.
I do have one idea though...
I have been thinking that for the next release, which will be at the beta level but still usable, to package the install cd-roms in some nice fashion and auction them on eBay.
The cost to do this would be about $5 a set. It would involve putting nice labels on the cd-roms (install and source disc), a little quickstart booklet, and a nice, labeled DVD type case.
I was thinking of starting the bid of these at $10, which will gurantee I will make $5 a copy, which seems fair to me. Any bids over $10 will be distributed among opensource organizations. Since Prometheus is totally dependent of GNUstep, a large percentage would go to them, as for the rest, who knows.
This way, there is an easy way to pay for a nicely packaged product, plus, you can donate as much as you feel like donating.
On another note, I wish there was a central web-site one could go to learn about donating money to opensource projects (maybe there is one already).
Ok, apple most likely isn't going to go with Intel CPUs, but one of your reasons is wrong.
Mac OS X binaries are capable of being FAT. They can contain both PPC and Intel instructions. OS X binaries are actually folders which can contain multiple architecture implementations within them. This also applies to the "libraries". Ok, the Framework bundles.
As far as broadcating TV and radio and censorship, this is true. However, aside from that anything goes. You wanna make a cable program with people having sex with pigs or whatever, you can. You want to stream radio on the internet talking trash about our politicians you can do that too. The main exception here is the *public* broadcast of TV and radio.
"Why not just escort them to the other side?" That's fine if one or two people do this. But you let one person do it, then there will 2, then 4, then 2000. What will you do then, what kind of securtiy will end up being present? that's right, none.
I see, it is somewhat confusing because most people have never used a lightweight window manager. OS X has a 20K process called "Window Manager", all it knows how to do is keep track of where windows are, where the mouse is, keystrokes, etc. It is the clients responsibility to actually draw stuff. The client asks the Window Manager for a shared piece of memory to draw to. When the client is done it tells the server and the server then blits this pixmap and keeps it in memory for later use (double buffering). This is basically what Xrender does. Note that it is the client which also draws the window frame, decorations, etc, there is no "Window Manager" like there is on X11.
Now, the clients do have access to PDF intepreters, but they run in the client only. no "code" is sent to the server. This is the fastest way to do this. ala XRender stuff. Of course, this type of graphics system does not work with remote connections.
I thought XRender prevented remote display functionality?
X11 is ok, but something like quartz does it so much smaller, simpler, and faster.
Dude, you've got it all wrong. People often say that Quartz is almost like Display Postscript, but it's not at all. Display Postscript involved creating actual postscript code and sending it to a postscript intepretor for display on the screen. Quartz does not do that. However, it does share almost the same exact API as Display Postscript did, so I can understand the confusion.
Anyhow, Display Postscript was not intended to be an extension to X11, that came AFTER it was implemented on NeXT. Remember OpenStep on Sun and HP, thise systems only had Xwindows, so a XDPS system was needed for them only.
Another point, XRender works very similarly to how Quartz does. That is, clients draw in a pixmap and ask the Server to draw it (vs. asking the Server to just draw it). The WindowServer in OS X is kinda like a XRender only X11. Drawing commands are not sent to the WindowServer, only the client's pixmap of what their windows should contain is "sent" (shared really) to the Server. Hence, a lightwieght Window Manager.
Well, with Quartz you get a lot more than a pretty gui. You get a very fast, path based graphics, with free anti-aliasing to boot. This is not there just for looks! It has real uses.
Sure, people complain how slow Quartz can be and I admit that it is very slow when resizing windows, but XFree86 is actually slower on hardware with similar speeds, Don't believe me? Run the newest KDE with all the effects on (like animations) and AA fonts on a 500MHz machine, then play with OS X on a 500MHz iMac, You'll find Quartz to not only be faster, but better looking to boot.
Don't diss Quartz, it can do awesome stuff (microsoft's GDI+ doesn't stack up to it either.)
Using Quartz, you can actually draw things at theSUB-pixel level, it does this by varying the intensity of what you draw and can be very useable in real world appliations. Imagine software for planning projects and suchusing timelines. With Quartz, you could zoom in and out of the timeline in real-time AND be able to actually READ and see the diagrams even at 10% of their normal size!
To sum it up, Quartz is good sh*t!.
This is really bad news, Apple is trying to get existing win users to switch to Macs. But this is counte-productive. This is what's going to happen at the local computer store:
1. Customer walks in store and asks the salesman about these great Macs they've heard about on TV so much.
2. Customer is told about why a Mac is so much better, and that iTools is really cool.
3. Customer is convinced, buys a new iMac, takes it home and turns it on.
4. Customer is persuaded via the Macs initial setup to use iTools. (.Mac, whatever)
5. Customer discovers that in addition to their computer costing much more than a Win Box, they're expected to pay an extra $100 a year just to use one of the Macs best features (iTools).
6. Customer returns iMac to store, gets a Compaq or something.
7. Retailers get pissed and stop selling Macs.
8. Apple loses
What a shame
Just tried it, got to see it and it's looks like a genuine flip-off to me.
Unfortunately the video has been removed.
Anybody have a copy for everybody else?
This is possible. There are many instances of intelligence agencies asking corporations to "help them out"
However, this would mean that the Windows source code that companies pay so much for is not the REAL source code.
Actually, the use of non NT based operating systems is forbidden on military computers. Windows95, 98, and ME can not be used.
They have 4 266MHZ Pentium IIs at almost $700 each! So about 1.1GHZ of CPU speed combined. And how much did it cost all together? Around $8000!
It may have been fun to build it but come on. Just buy a 1GHZ Book Style Case PC for well under a $1000. It would be even smaller, consume less electricity, and probably be more reliable since there are less parts.
I can't help but wonder how long it will be till someone starts a .net OS project.
I searched all the replies and was surprised that nobody has even mentioned GNUstep.
I'm currenty working on a project called SimplyGNUstep which aims to be the Mac OS X for Intel and likely other archs as well.
This will give everyone a source compatible version of OS X, minus Aqua.
I'm also working on an OpenSource (LGPL) Carbon API called Graphite, which will actually be a c-bridge to the GNUstep API, all Carbon apps compiled on Graphite will actually be objective-c GNUstep (Cocoa) apps (quite different than how Apple implemented Carbon os OS X)
SimplyGNUstep was posted on slashdot last month and I've been steadily redoing the source tree to allow easy maintenence and portability, the source will be available within 2 months (I don't want to release it until it's good cause it has to be built as "root" and can damage systems). This source tree actually builds the distro cds, it the FULL source. Graphite is in the planning/early coding stages and seems to be feasible, source should be avail at about the same time the next SimplyGNUstep is released.
If you guys and gals really want a OS X on x86, then help me out! When the source tree is put on cvs (it is a 1GB+ tree though) helping out will be snap!
A non GNUstep thing that can be very helpfull is a vmware linux video framebuffer, anybody wanna pick this up?
Thanks,
Chad
That's fair, but change it around a bit and apple comes out on top.
First of all, make it a SCSI system, add the ability to insert a wireless ethernet card, add firewire, ad 1GBit ethernet, add the ability to to hook up 2 monitors, add the ability to write DVDs, add movie making software worth a damn, and finally compare all this with the dual cpu systems.
What you end up with are systems priced almost exactly the same, with the apple being more reliable and cheaper (OS updates are FREE)
The result being that if you're looking for a professional digital media system, apple is the way to go. if you're looking for a reliable home use system Dell, Compaw, etc are cheaper, but not much, you can pick up a iMac for $799 that can do wonderfull stuff and is so damn simple to use it's scary.
Go ahead, figure it out for yourself, you'll see.
Chad
Sourceforge has a policy of not allowing DLs of files over 100MB, I broke that limit with my 110MB ISO image, so they took read access form the file to everybody but me.
If someone would like to offer a mirror I would appreciate it very much!
Chad Hardin
The problem is that many of the newest video cards do not support the VESA 2.0 standard.
As this was mainly a demo cd, I was more concerned with getting it to run on as many machines as possible with minimal effore (therefore, VESA)
The actual installation disc I'll end up creating will not try to use the VESA framebuffer.
Chad
The problem is the way sourceforge does uploads. Everytime I have tried to upload the sio image for SimplyGNUstep to the /incoming directory somebody moves it before the upload is complete. This has happened tie and time again and is very frustrating.
For now, just got to http://simplygnustep.sourceforge.net and download it there.
Chad
Most people don't realize this, but Office X has a very interesting "feature"
If you are on a LAN and try to run an instance of Office X that has the same serial number Office X will detect this and not allow you to run the new instance!
Just putting some info out...
The BeOS was designed to do thread switches extremely quickly and the Kits are built around that fact.
For example, every single GUI element of a BeOS app is at least 1 thread, possibly more...
Linux was not designed to create and destroy such a large amount of threads so frequently.
How are you going to deal with this problem?
If the system is not accessed physically then you can set up the logs to print out to an old-fashioned dot-matrix printer, even root access can't erase those :-)
Well, all tech stocks seem to be in the tanks.
As for processor speed, the new G4s run at 733MHz, not 500MHz.
What alternative architectures are hurting Apple, PCI, AGP, USB, FireWire, PCMCIA, IDE?
As for Apple opening up their hardware, i don't know, maybe, it won't happen though.
As for their software, OS X is quite open, you even have GNUstep which is striving for Mac OS X compatibility.
Well, as far as bevelled buttons and soft colors go, OpenLook had that a long long time ago. I loved that interface, it may not have had the best widget set, but it was very pleasant to the eye.
Hmm, Why is this an issue, after all, pigeons don't travel at Mach 3!
If you have any info relating to weapon systems having difficulties like this, please divulge.
And sticking it's ass in your face! All cat's are just playing one big joke on us.