But once everything switched to virtual machines and intermediary languages...f
You do realize that C has ALWAYS been just like this? BSD was running in the 1990s on systems like Stardent and Gould PowerNode that were not even close to the VAX/68000 security blanket so many programmers cling to. On these systems the C compiler had to perform frightful tricks to hide their strange architecture.
And maybe you've never worked on embedded systems? Have you ever seen the remarkable acrobatics that a C compiler has to do, to generate code for strange architectures like AVR and 8051? Again the compiled code just has to work and hopefully be fast, so again the resulting assembler is a total mash.
gnu grep 2.21, released Nov 23 2014, 10 active unfixed bugs on their bug report
hello can you write a bug-free grep? can anyone? go ahead I double dare you. come on it's a simple program, just support the posix options. it's been done probably a dozen times at this point, surely someone with your skillz can knock it off with no bugs at all.
You could write a line of C and have a pretty damn good idea what the assembler output would look like.
Or maybe not, if your compiler does re-ordering or any sort of optimization. In fact the C standard states explicitly that the compiler is free to generate any code it wants to as long as it correctly executes your program. So that means that your stack variables will vanish, your unused code will vanish, your loop variables and exit conditions will be re-written and in general, depending on what works best for the platform you're compiling on, the code won't look anything like what you expected. Besides all that, the generated assembler will be fragile as all heck because it is depending on processor-specific functionality for high speed and you will probably not be able to go in and tweak it without breaking it terribly. So really what good does it do to know what assembler will be generated?
Really? Then you must not be writing much cross-platform code, or else you would be complaining about how C does not detect arithmetic overflow, and how the results of overflow are platform-dependent.
A dear old friend of mine told me that "C lets you paint on the ceiling" which means that C will let you do whatever you want to do with a pointer, you can point to legitimate memory or you can cause a bus error or you can overwrite something else. The terrible thing about C is that it is not possible in general to detect misuse of pointers, and there are frightfully subtle language constructs in C that will give results that are not expected on first or second or even third viewing of the code. I refer you to the obfuscated code contests for further details on code that does stuff differently than how it looks.
And as you can tell from the unending onslaught of software updates on any system you have, you can see that (for example) even the most rudimentary unix programs like sed and grep are still getting bugs fixed and found. So these 35 year old relatively trivial C programs are still buggy even after 35 years of continuous software updates, I would hazard a guess that C is not a good language for writing bug free programs.
in case you have not been keeping up, automated code analysis tools are finding terrible bugs in EVERYBODY's code from Microsoft to Google to Apple and just about every free software project.
so the empirical evidence is that NOBODY out there knows how to use C++ "safely"
they were not "jobs" because they did not last. "jobs" are what people use to raise families and children. getting paid for six weeks and then getting laid off is not a "job"
One thing you need to learn about leftists is that they accuse others of what they are secretly guilty of, or would be guilty of if only they had the chance.
straw man alert!
Here they quickly accuse others ("evil corporations") of being greedy, but its their own greed thats on the table.
yes, when the corporation doles out enormous golden parachutes to its executives, it is doing the exact same thing as when a father scrapes together food to feed his family
let's try this exercise: you are a farmer and you have extra food. there are hungry people with money. no corpoation is necessary for a business transaction to take place here.
You are stuck an island by yourself
yeah sure that argument clearly is deeply rooted in real life experience, NOT
people can make things and sell them to each other without corporations, they are strictly a mental construct humans use to organize their thinking, in the physical realm corporations do not actually exist.
You can say that an individual has natural rights, but there is no definition of "natural rights" that can be applied to a corporation, which is nothing more than aggregated capital.
Except for the fact that a corporation can sue you for a wide variety of reasons. A pile of money cannot sue, a corporation can.
It's refreshing to see people starting to challenge the notion that naturally a government can regulate whatever it wants. Calling it out when nonsensical - putting the burden of proof of necessity/wisdom on those in power - that's simply awesome.
your poor straw man just can't get a break, you've really got him on the ropes
You have to take them to court just like no different than suing a person.
This is not really true, in some circumstances such as car lemon laws, the vendor will lose their business license if they defraud the customer. This gives the customer a lot of leverage in this situation. A person has no business license and so the state can't threaten to take it away.
amateur truck loaders are going to put small loads in big trailers without proper securing, the loads will slide all around the floor of the trailer and impact the sides of the trailer with great force, enough to overturn the trailer on a sharp curve or even puncture the side of the trailer or pop the back doors open with the subsequent ejection of the load into the direct path of motorists. Modern plastic pallets are a big improvement in many ways but they slide like teflon in the back of a trailer.
This is little known but many trailer overturns are not caused by driver error. They are caused by poor loading of the trailer. These overturn accidents can be deadly to the driver and to innocent motorists. The only answer is to enforce the law with random inspections, heavy fines and enforced training and supervision by the supervisors of the loaders.
How would you feel if your sofa fell out of the back of some idiot mover's truck and killed someone?
Slashdot Mirror
click the software update button on your computer and it's clear that EVERYBODY writes shitty code
But once everything switched to virtual machines and intermediary languages...f
You do realize that C has ALWAYS been just like this? BSD was running in the 1990s on systems like Stardent and Gould PowerNode that were not even close to the VAX/68000 security blanket so many programmers cling to. On these systems the C compiler had to perform frightful tricks to hide their strange architecture.
And maybe you've never worked on embedded systems? Have you ever seen the remarkable acrobatics that a C compiler has to do, to generate code for strange architectures like AVR and 8051? Again the compiled code just has to work and hopefully be fast, so again the resulting assembler is a total mash.
gnu grep 2.21, released Nov 23 2014, 10 active unfixed bugs on their bug report
hello can you write a bug-free grep? can anyone? go ahead I double dare you. come on it's a simple program, just support the posix options. it's been done probably a dozen times at this point, surely someone with your skillz can knock it off with no bugs at all.
You could write a line of C and have a pretty damn good idea what the assembler output would look like.
Or maybe not, if your compiler does re-ordering or any sort of optimization. In fact the C standard states explicitly that the compiler is free to generate any code it wants to as long as it correctly executes your program. So that means that your stack variables will vanish, your unused code will vanish, your loop variables and exit conditions will be re-written and in general, depending on what works best for the platform you're compiling on, the code won't look anything like what you expected. Besides all that, the generated assembler will be fragile as all heck because it is depending on processor-specific functionality for high speed and you will probably not be able to go in and tweak it without breaking it terribly. So really what good does it do to know what assembler will be generated?
the problems of using a language that almost no one is familiar with.
maybe you can name for us a language that has never had this problem
you're not going to achieve anything clever with an invalid pointer
I absolutely love C.
Really? Then you must not be writing much cross-platform code, or else you would be complaining about how C does not detect arithmetic overflow, and how the results of overflow are platform-dependent.
A dear old friend of mine told me that "C lets you paint on the ceiling" which means that C will let you do whatever you want to do with a pointer, you can point to legitimate memory or you can cause a bus error or you can overwrite something else. The terrible thing about C is that it is not possible in general to detect misuse of pointers, and there are frightfully subtle language constructs in C that will give results that are not expected on first or second or even third viewing of the code. I refer you to the obfuscated code contests for further details on code that does stuff differently than how it looks.
And as you can tell from the unending onslaught of software updates on any system you have, you can see that (for example) even the most rudimentary unix programs like sed and grep are still getting bugs fixed and found. So these 35 year old relatively trivial C programs are still buggy even after 35 years of continuous software updates, I would hazard a guess that C is not a good language for writing bug free programs.
you can use C++ perfectly safely
in case you have not been keeping up, automated code analysis tools are finding terrible bugs in EVERYBODY's code from Microsoft to Google to Apple and just about every free software project.
so the empirical evidence is that NOBODY out there knows how to use C++ "safely"
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm
they were not "jobs" because they did not last. "jobs" are what people use to raise families and children. getting paid for six weeks and then getting laid off is not a "job"
One thing you need to learn about leftists is that they accuse others of what they are secretly guilty of, or would be guilty of if only they had the chance.
straw man alert!
Here they quickly accuse others ("evil corporations") of being greedy, but its their own greed thats on the table.
yes, when the corporation doles out enormous golden parachutes to its executives, it is doing the exact same thing as when a father scrapes together food to feed his family
the founding fathers said that their beliefs are compatible with all people so maybe you can explain some more about how your theory works
never underestimate the power of the straw man
the straw man can have infinite power or wisdom or he may be the stupidest person on earth
such is the power and glory of the straw man
the customers do not actually create anything.
let's try this exercise: you are a farmer and you have extra food. there are hungry people with money. no corpoation is necessary for a business transaction to take place here.
You are stuck an island by yourself
yeah sure that argument clearly is deeply rooted in real life experience, NOT
people can make things and sell them to each other without corporations, they are strictly a mental construct humans use to organize their thinking, in the physical realm corporations do not actually exist.
es you can create customers out of the blue. Ask Facebook, Google and many others.
The people who use facebook and google are NOT the customers, they are the PRODUCT.
You can say that an individual has natural rights, but there is no definition of "natural rights" that can be applied to a corporation, which is nothing more than aggregated capital.
Except for the fact that a corporation can sue you for a wide variety of reasons. A pile of money cannot sue, a corporation can.
>Because usually all you know is that /somebody/ is going to be replaced:
Here's a hint: if you are training someone else to do your job, what do you think is going to happen next?
i
you fully admit that they played you for a fool and you are proud of it, good for you
yes why bother trying, total anarchy is inevitable, so just give up now
forgetting to secure your load and killing innocent people, how civilized
It's refreshing to see people starting to challenge the notion that naturally a government can regulate whatever it wants. Calling it out when nonsensical - putting the burden of proof of necessity/wisdom on those in power - that's simply awesome.
your poor straw man just can't get a break, you've really got him on the ropes
people die due to the carelessness and irresponsibility of others all the time
They call it "involuntary manslaughter" and the perpetrators can be imprisoned for life in some circumstances.
You have to take them to court just like no different than suing a person.
This is not really true, in some circumstances such as car lemon laws, the vendor will lose their business license if they defraud the customer. This gives the customer a lot of leverage in this situation. A person has no business license and so the state can't threaten to take it away.
amateur truck loaders are going to put small loads in big trailers without proper securing, the loads will slide all around the floor of the trailer and impact the sides of the trailer with great force, enough to overturn the trailer on a sharp curve or even puncture the side of the trailer or pop the back doors open with the subsequent ejection of the load into the direct path of motorists. Modern plastic pallets are a big improvement in many ways but they slide like teflon in the back of a trailer.
This is little known but many trailer overturns are not caused by driver error. They are caused by poor loading of the trailer. These overturn accidents can be deadly to the driver and to innocent motorists. The only answer is to enforce the law with random inspections, heavy fines and enforced training and supervision by the supervisors of the loaders.
How would you feel if your sofa fell out of the back of some idiot mover's truck and killed someone?