When my local Gannett-owned newspaper switched from a PHPbb type forum to the new Facebook comments, it pretty much killed discussion altogether.
The irony, of course, is despite the big banner extolling the virtues of non-anonymous commenting ('"it'll make everyone play nice!" Like that's something we give a shit about) the people who actually had anything intelligent to say were the ones who stopped commenting; since it's still pretty easy to create a fake facebook account, trolls abound.
Seriously, sometimes it's like 4chan without pictures over there.
Early production cars have received several software updates already. (My car arrived in late February with version 4.2). I was looking forward to my first update--if for no other reason than to experience first-hand another step into the future of car ownership.
Sure enough, just five weeks after taking delivery, I got in the car one morning last week to find a message on the touchscreen: software update v4.3 was available.
The message suggested I schedule the update for 2 am the next morning. The car needs to be parked and turned off for about two hours to complete the wireless download, which uses the 3G cellphone network.
So, uh, yeah, you get ASKED if you want to update, and the car needs parked and turned off (standby).
Nice to know Tesla's not going to be doing firmware updates while you're hauling ass down the freeway, but nothing in that story indicates that installing the updates are optional. "The message suggested I schedule the update for 2 am the next morning" doesn't mean he had a choice in whether or not it was installed, but rather when.
My two real issues with this:
- If Tesla can send info to your car wirelessly, then it stands to reason they can receive information from it as well. Backseat drivers suck.
- If Tesla can Rx/Tx info from/to your car wirelessly, so can anyone else who has the right gear and figures out the protocols.
The Tesla vehicle isn't burning down your garage; your terrible wiring is.
Incorrect - the terrible wiring was fine until a Tesla was plugged into it. So, obviously, the wiring alone is not the problem, the problem is the combination of the two.
I'd say the blame is probably closer to 60/40 on the wiring side.
Am I the only one who has serious reservations about buying a car (read: 1.5 tons of rolling steel death) that can be 'updated,' remotely, without the owner's explicit permission?
Please tell me that the vehicle at least has to be stationary before the updates start a-flowin'.
Any dumbass can do stuff in a GUI, but real BAMFs rock a terminal.
I've always thought of it as the difference between watching TV and reading a book
That seems like a fair assessment.
Just earlier today I heard a co-worker say "I don't read books, I just wait for the movie to come out." My guess is, she'd be completely unable to compute without a GUI holding her hand the whole time.
Any dumbass can do stuff in a GUI, but real BAMFs rock a terminal.
I think nearly all experienced professionals would simply say that both types of tools have their place.
Well, sure, but what about when you first started getting into computers? The dude's who could do everything from a CLI were considered the 'cool cats,' at least in the circles I ran with way back in the 90's.
No part of that debunks what I said, you know, and in fact your first citation supports it: Texas has a long-established method for selling cars that requires a dealership presence (long-established as in, the law is a good 30-40 years older than Tesla, and probably at least a decade older than Elon Musk himself). There was no such thing as Tesla when the law was passed, so obviously it couldn't have been passed specifically to hurt a company that didn't exist, contrary to what a certain South African guy wants us to think.
Musk wanted a special exception for Tesla; he didn't want the law changed so that any electric car maker could sell without a dealership, he wanted the law changed so his electric car maker could sell without a dealership, but nobody else would be able to. These are facts.
If Tesla's founder put half as much energy into getting a TX auto dealers license as he has into bitching about not receiving special treatment, there would probably be Model S's all over Dallas County by now.
Now, the deal in Ohio? That's legit - it was only a month or two ago that the Ohio legislature put forth a bill that would, effectively, ban Tesla sales in their state. Which is bullshit, I agree.
There is a difference between being pissed and being a dick about something.
Ha, yea, namely perception. See, you've decided somewhere along the line that you don't agree with me, so that means, to you, I'm being a dick. Were you on the other side of the fence, I'm certain your perspective on the situation would be 180 degrees different.
Your 'fuck you, fuck that' attitude is not justified.
I'm pretty sure we can all see who the selfish asshole is here just fine.
Assuming your implication, obviously not. Like I just told OP, nobody owes you a job, so if you can't or won't do what your employer is paying you to do, quit and let someone who isn't a narcissistic pussy get the job done.
Yea, sorry man, but when you basically said "I don't care that I'm getting paid to do a certain job in a certain timeframe, I do shit my own way and fuck the people cutting my checks," I decided there's nothing you can say that's worth my time. I tend to get that way about lazy, selfish people.
Can't handle the demands of your work, find new employment. Nobody owes you a job.
Really? I thought we'd gotten past this whole Elon-claims-Texas-is-singling-him-out-when-the-real-issue-is-that-he-wants-a-special-exception-made-for-his-company-and-his-company-alone-and-the-Texas-legislature-isn't-letting-him-cheat-the-system thing.
Try Ohio instead, their legislature actively tried to block Tesla out via legislative fiat earlier this year. Texas just refused to bend the rules for him, and rightly so.
Who rattled your kennel? I don't remember inviting you to the conversation.
Anyway... if you don't know off the top of your head how one of those big Alienware powerhouse laptops is more useful than a tiny, underpowered netbook, you'd be better off comparing them on NewEgg than talking to me.
You're foolish or lazy enough to cut ordering gifts that close and have the unmitigated gall to whine when the dice you rolled came up snake-eyes? Eff right off.
I've read reports of people who ordered stuff on Black Friday and are still waiting on UPS to find and deliver their packages.
Where are you folks getting the idea that this fiasco only affected last-minute orders?
All this revenue that could be pulled by the one time largest shipper in the US, but for some reason, they keep losing billions a year.
No, they aren't "losing billions a year."
It just looks that way, because the USPS is the only government body that's required (thanks to Congressional legislation) to fund ALL retirements and pensions through the next decade.
If it were allowed to be ran like any other government agency, the Post Office would actually be doing OK.
First, The UPS "guaranteed on-schedule delivery" already includes the following:
The guarantee does not apply to UPS shipments that are delayed due to causes beyond UPS's control, including, but not limited to, the following: [SNIPPED some basic things, strikes, acts of god, government, customs, etc.] disruptions in air or ground transportation networks, such as weather phenomena; and natural disasters. The guarantee does not apply to UPS 2nd Day Air A.M., UPS 2nd Day Air, UPS 3 Day Select, and UPS Ground shipments that are picked up or scheduled to be delivered between December 12 and December 25.
was it actually shipped, or was the shipping info just entered into the UPS system? I've had nurmerous times experienced where it LOOKED like the item was in UPS's hands and stuck very early in their shipment process, but after a call to the retailer (Amazon) it was discovered the item was NEVER ACTUALLY GIVEN to UPS as Amazon didn't infact have ANY IN STOCK as their inventory levels were off. Hence, had I taken your attitude, I would have been blaming the WRONG PARTY
Well, IMO, they're both at fault, and for the same reason - they promised consumers products and services that they were unable to deliver. That constitutes a failure in my book, and regardless of what the retailers did, a company that sells itself on logistic competence has absolutely no excuse to drop the ball like this.
Doesn't seem to matter either way, there's precedent for this sort of thing: Shipper blames retailer, retailer blames shipper, somebody hands out a few token refunds, and the whole episode gets forgotten by the public-at-large within a month.
Maybe that's what really pisses me off about this: If I did my job as poorly as these retailers and shippers did, I'd be on the fucking streets, but Corporate America just gets to write the losses down and continue on like they didn't just fuck a ton of people out of money.
Slashdot Mirror
When my local Gannett-owned newspaper switched from a PHPbb type forum to the new Facebook comments, it pretty much killed discussion altogether.
The irony, of course, is despite the big banner extolling the virtues of non-anonymous commenting ('"it'll make everyone play nice!" Like that's something we give a shit about) the people who actually had anything intelligent to say were the ones who stopped commenting; since it's still pretty easy to create a fake facebook account, trolls abound.
Seriously, sometimes it's like 4chan without pictures over there.
Well, sure, but what about when you first started getting into computers?
Um, there really weren't any GUIs back then...
That's cool, I was just trying to get you to show your age, dinosaur :P
Tell you what, I'll call it 60% wiring, 20% user error, and 20% manufacturer's error.
IMO, Blameless parties do not need to issue software updates to fix stuff.
Early production cars have received several software updates already. (My car arrived in late February with version 4.2). I was looking forward to my first update--if for no other reason than to experience first-hand another step into the future of car ownership.
Sure enough, just five weeks after taking delivery, I got in the car one morning last week to find a message on the touchscreen: software update v4.3 was available.
The message suggested I schedule the update for 2 am the next morning. The car needs to be parked and turned off for about two hours to complete the wireless download, which uses the 3G cellphone network.
So, uh, yeah, you get ASKED if you want to update, and the car needs parked and turned off (standby).
Nice to know Tesla's not going to be doing firmware updates while you're hauling ass down the freeway, but nothing in that story indicates that installing the updates are optional. "The message suggested I schedule the update for 2 am the next morning" doesn't mean he had a choice in whether or not it was installed, but rather when.
My two real issues with this:
- If Tesla can send info to your car wirelessly, then it stands to reason they can receive information from it as well. Backseat drivers suck.
- If Tesla can Rx/Tx info from/to your car wirelessly, so can anyone else who has the right gear and figures out the protocols.
The Tesla vehicle isn't burning down your garage; your terrible wiring is.
Incorrect - the terrible wiring was fine until a Tesla was plugged into it. So, obviously, the wiring alone is not the problem, the problem is the combination of the two.
I'd say the blame is probably closer to 60/40 on the wiring side.
Tesla software updates are OTA, yes.
OK, now we have that established...
Am I the only one who has serious reservations about buying a car (read: 1.5 tons of rolling steel death) that can be 'updated,' remotely, without the owner's explicit permission?
Please tell me that the vehicle at least has to be stationary before the updates start a-flowin'.
Any dumbass can do stuff in a GUI, but real BAMFs rock a terminal.
I've always thought of it as the difference between watching TV and reading a book
That seems like a fair assessment.
Just earlier today I heard a co-worker say "I don't read books, I just wait for the movie to come out." My guess is, she'd be completely unable to compute without a GUI holding her hand the whole time.
I thought that "BAMF" was the sound that the teleporting mutant from the X-men made....
Ha!
It is, but not in this context.
Have you tried Google? I bet you haven't.
Google it.
Err.. in this context, what the hell is a BAMF? Do you mean BOFH?
No, but in retrospect that would have been a good one to use.
Any dumbass can do stuff in a GUI, but real BAMFs rock a terminal.
I think nearly all experienced professionals would simply say that both types of tools have their place.
Well, sure, but what about when you first started getting into computers? The dude's who could do everything from a CLI were considered the 'cool cats,' at least in the circles I ran with way back in the 90's.
No part of that debunks what I said, you know, and in fact your first citation supports it: Texas has a long-established method for selling cars that requires a dealership presence (long-established as in, the law is a good 30-40 years older than Tesla, and probably at least a decade older than Elon Musk himself). There was no such thing as Tesla when the law was passed, so obviously it couldn't have been passed specifically to hurt a company that didn't exist, contrary to what a certain South African guy wants us to think.
Musk wanted a special exception for Tesla; he didn't want the law changed so that any electric car maker could sell without a dealership, he wanted the law changed so his electric car maker could sell without a dealership, but nobody else would be able to. These are facts.
If Tesla's founder put half as much energy into getting a TX auto dealers license as he has into bitching about not receiving special treatment, there would probably be Model S's all over Dallas County by now.
Now, the deal in Ohio? That's legit - it was only a month or two ago that the Ohio legislature put forth a bill that would, effectively, ban Tesla sales in their state. Which is bullshit, I agree.
There is a difference between being pissed and being a dick about something.
Ha, yea, namely perception. See, you've decided somewhere along the line that you don't agree with me, so that means, to you, I'm being a dick. Were you on the other side of the fence, I'm certain your perspective on the situation would be 180 degrees different.
Your 'fuck you, fuck that' attitude is not justified.
A matter of opinion, obviously.
I'm pretty sure we can all see who the selfish asshole is here just fine.
Assuming your implication, obviously not. Like I just told OP, nobody owes you a job, so if you can't or won't do what your employer is paying you to do, quit and let someone who isn't a narcissistic pussy get the job done.
Yea, sorry man, but when you basically said "I don't care that I'm getting paid to do a certain job in a certain timeframe, I do shit my own way and fuck the people cutting my checks," I decided there's nothing you can say that's worth my time. I tend to get that way about lazy, selfish people.
Can't handle the demands of your work, find new employment. Nobody owes you a job.
Any dumbass can do stuff in a GUI, but real BAMFs rock a terminal.
At least, that's how it was sold to me when I was a young'in. Worked pretty well, too.
So is this an OTA update, or does Tesla send owners some sort of flash drive to do the update with? TFA fails to say.
Ugh, greencarreports.com? The more of their articles I read, the more I believe nobody working there has Clue 1 as to how cars actually work.
Anyone got a link to a source that doesn't suck?
Really? I thought we'd gotten past this whole Elon-claims-Texas-is-singling-him-out-when-the-real-issue-is-that-he-wants-a-special-exception-made-for-his-company-and-his-company-alone-and-the-Texas-legislature-isn't-letting-him-cheat-the-system thing.
Try Ohio instead, their legislature actively tried to block Tesla out via legislative fiat earlier this year. Texas just refused to bend the rules for him, and rightly so.
In UPS's defense, I will point out that every other package they shipped this year was delivered on time, to the right address.
Still, I've had entirely too many issues with that company in the past to ever voluntarily trust a delivery to them.
Who rattled your kennel? I don't remember inviting you to the conversation.
Anyway... if you don't know off the top of your head how one of those big Alienware powerhouse laptops is more useful than a tiny, underpowered netbook, you'd be better off comparing them on NewEgg than talking to me.
'Cuz I'm probably just gonna make fun of you.
You're foolish or lazy enough to cut ordering gifts that close and have the unmitigated gall to whine when the dice you rolled came up snake-eyes? Eff right off.
I've read reports of people who ordered stuff on Black Friday and are still waiting on UPS to find and deliver their packages.
Where are you folks getting the idea that this fiasco only affected last-minute orders?
All this revenue that could be pulled by the one time largest shipper in the US, but for some reason, they keep losing billions a year.
No, they aren't "losing billions a year."
It just looks that way, because the USPS is the only government body that's required (thanks to Congressional legislation) to fund ALL retirements and pensions through the next decade.
If it were allowed to be ran like any other government agency, the Post Office would actually be doing OK.
First, The UPS "guaranteed on-schedule delivery" already includes the following:
The guarantee does not apply to UPS shipments that are delayed due to causes beyond UPS's control, including, but not limited to, the following:
[SNIPPED some basic things, strikes, acts of god, government, customs, etc.]
disruptions in air or ground transportation networks, such as weather phenomena; and natural disasters.
The guarantee does not apply to UPS 2nd Day Air A.M., UPS 2nd Day Air, UPS 3 Day Select, and UPS Ground shipments that are picked up or scheduled to be delivered between December 12 and December 25.
http://www.ups.com/media/en/terms_service_us.pdf
Can you read that? Christmas is excluded. The whole Christmas season is excluded.
Huh, reads like an advertisement for USPS to me...
You know, if they sent me a letter to that effect, I might actually cut them some slack.
Maybe; I was raised in a capitalist society, after all...
was it actually shipped, or was the shipping info just entered into the UPS system? I've had nurmerous times experienced where it LOOKED like the item was in UPS's hands and stuck very early in their shipment process, but after a call to the retailer (Amazon) it was discovered the item was NEVER ACTUALLY GIVEN to UPS as Amazon didn't infact have ANY IN STOCK as their inventory levels were off. Hence, had I taken your attitude, I would have been blaming the WRONG PARTY
Well, IMO, they're both at fault, and for the same reason - they promised consumers products and services that they were unable to deliver. That constitutes a failure in my book, and regardless of what the retailers did, a company that sells itself on logistic competence has absolutely no excuse to drop the ball like this.
Doesn't seem to matter either way, there's precedent for this sort of thing: Shipper blames retailer, retailer blames shipper, somebody hands out a few token refunds, and the whole episode gets forgotten by the public-at-large within a month.
Maybe that's what really pisses me off about this: If I did my job as poorly as these retailers and shippers did, I'd be on the fucking streets, but Corporate America just gets to write the losses down and continue on like they didn't just fuck a ton of people out of money.