I specifically said, "excluding minimum wage and under-the-table type jobs." The occupations you mentioned are almost exclusively minimum wage.
I'm not really sure why your qualification excludes minimum wage jobs (unless it's just an attempt to back up your original comment, which is odd, considering you said "McDonald's", not "fast food" or "minimum wage"); are minimum wage jobs not valid?
Minimum wage jobs are not valid career choices.
Also, the very broad set I alluded to *do* include jobs paying above minimum wage, especially when you consider advancement within an organization.
Semantically, your phrase of "every job" is hyperbole, while mine of "plenty of jobs" is not.
I suppose I can concede those points, although I will point out that, in many of the occupations you listed, advancing beyond entry-level typically does require drug testing at a minimum, and often entail other, more intrusive background checks.
However, none of that changes the fact that OP is being an unreasonable dick about the whole thing, which is what I intended to point out.
You know what's bullshit? Generalizations. Science and religion are not fundamentally opposed. Granted, there are many times that particular, individual interpretations of religion deny scientific fact, but to state that "religion is bullshit," and imply that one cannot be both a member of a religion and a scientist, proves to the reader that you do not understand either concept, and are rather spouting off as a result of your personal biases (which, BTW, is a fundamentally un-scientific methodology).
The irony, of course, is that the attitude you're showing towards religion is based on the same circular reasoning that creationists and the like use to justify their opposing positions.
Hope you're proud, as you've become that which you hate.
10 jobs? You dolt, it's company specific, not job specific.
For the record, stepping right out of the gate with an ad hominem is not a good way to endear others to your cause; much to the contrary, it only serves to make you look like an unreasonable asshole.
Nobody should work for a COMPANY that requires this kind of garbage.
Don't disagree, in spirit. What I disagree with is the concept that getting a job worth having somewhere that doesn't require employees to essentially sign their rights away is just as easy as you seem to think it is.
There are plenty of companies that don't treat their employees like cattle.
Okay, then name one. I mean, you say they exist, so naming just one shouldn't be that taxing, should it?
If you're not intelligent enough to find one, then that's really your problem, not mine.
Full circle back to the personal attacks, I see. You really don't want to be taken seriously, do you?
Do you ever tire of all the stupid, inane questions (see above) about god and religion and whatnot that you get asked, solely by virtue of the fact that you identify ideologically as a Follower of Christ?
I've only been exposed to the questions asked of you on this thread, and I'm already tired of it.
You're the one who said "every job that isn't at McDonald's requires one, the other, or both," so I'm not going to do your leg work for you, but feel free to call and ask your local small businesses (and gas stations, and grocery stores, and retail stores, and restaurants, etc etc).
I specifically said, "excluding minimum wage and under-the-table type jobs." The occupations you mentioned are almost exclusively minimum wage.
Of course, your response serves to support my point, so I guess I shouldn't bitch.
PS if you're going to accuse other people of being hyperbolic, you may want to avoid the behavior yourself - nobody likes a hypocrite.
Why not go the I.C. route? That way, you get to set your own hours, pick and choose which jobs you take, and also have the opportunity to learn about new technologies then subsequently implement them. Fun fun.
Hell, were I not in a station in life that basically requires a steady paycheck, or if I had the client base to make a real business out of it, I'd still be doing IC work myself.
Corperate AV also is a field that is exploding. AMX programming, Crestron programming currently is a very hot field right now. Plus you get to work with stuff that 99% of the guys on slashdot can only dream of ever touching in their life.
Having set up with a Crestron or two during my days as a roadie-for-hire, this statement puts a good ol' fashioned shit-eating grin on my face:D
Or are you a work-every-day-until-I-die kind of person?
That't not as uncommon as you'd think, because a lot of people would get utterly bored and wouldn't like it.
Yes, this.
My father retired from mould-making about a year ago, and has spent the last few months looking for something he can do part-time, like working in a hardware store.
Partially, because his now-fixed-retirement-income isn't quite enough to fund his hobbies, but mostly because he's going out of his head with boredom.
Not sure but I wouldn't settle for it, I'd discuss what I want altered and have them print up a new contract.
In Amerika, that earns you the response of, "OK, we'll just get rid of you and hire some other peon who is desperate enough for work to agree to our fucked-up terms without question."
Of course, the more cynical among us understand that this is but one reason that corporations have zero incentive to voluntarily fix the abysmal employment situation.
While that may very well be the case for high-end cameras, it ignores the fundamental basis of my argument - whether or not that camera gets repaired or replaced should be up to you, the person who owns it, and not the company that made it and sold it (to a retailer, who in turn sold it to you).
This isn't an issue of cost, it's a matter of Nikon telling their customers, "you are not allowed to fix that thing you bought, because we made it."
How can you lose a job you haven't been hired for yet?
Who ever said they hadn't been hired? OP specifically stated, "...signed something on their first day of employment..." which directly implies that the person was already hired, and was given a packet of documents to sign (post-hiring).
Having worked for a corporation before, I can attest that this is pretty much how things go down - first you're told you've got the job, sometimes conditional on passing a drug test (at this point I would agree, though I object to drug testing on a moral basis, that no harm has been done, as you haven't technically gotten the job yet).
Presuming that you pass the drug test, you're told what your schedule is; in corporate Amerika, the first day of employment is largely spent in the HR office, filling out forms and signing documents.
This is the point at which the harm occurs, as the individual in question has already been hired based on one set of criteria, and is now being told they must meet a different set of criteria or their employment will be terminated.
Well, last couple jobs I took that were W2 ones...I read over the employment agreement, and crossed out and and added verbage as I wanted it..and signed it.
They accepted this and gave me the jobs, so I would guess that's binding?
This is something I would love to know myself, as I have a habit of doing the exact same thing.
Is there an employment/contract lawyer in the house who can clarify this point?
Actually, these days OBD-II diagnosis is a bit more available, thanks to cheaper scanners offered by companies like JC Whitney and Jegs. Granted, a lot of those lower-end scanners won't tell you much about your machine, other than reporting trouble codes, but if you have the bucks you can, as a consumer, purchase one of the super-fancy versions that does things like live sensor readouts, in addition to trouble code access.
Worked on a BMW? Secret decoder ring sockets. The bolts are like torque tools. The sockets are like torque bolts.
They make _cheep_ versions now, but for decades it was tool truck only.
Indeed - matter of fact, my first experience of not being able to work on a car for lack of tools was when I was in college, trying to align the suspension on a classmate's 2000 BMW 5 series - the toe adjustment has to be done with a special tool, exclusively available to BMW dealerships.
Since neither BMW nor any of the nearby dealerships were willing to sell/loan one of these tools to our automotive technology training facility, I had no choice but to tell my friend he was S.O.L. Consequently, I flat refuse to provide BMW with any custom.
obey the government, and work within the system to gain power. Don't bother trying to overthrow the Matrix.
The US Government, like all governments, has the exact same power structure as any other government, and that is: the strong get to rule over the weak.
You freedom-loving libertarians need to understand this concept. It really is a flaw among you libertarians to think that you somehow live in a "free" country. No, you do NOT live in a free country. You never have. Try breaking a law, and see how much freedom you have.
You're better off accepting that you have no power, rather than thinking you have any sort of power under a democracy. The key is, if you accepted how powerless you were, you would form different methods of gaining power, instead of through silly methods such as through the 2nd amendment, which was designed to help government control you...
Nobody at this point actually thinks their pathetic handgun is going to protect them against tyranny by a government armed with SWAT teams, drones, and nuclear missiles, do they? And their power was actually demonstrated via a civil war where Gen. Sherman burnt down half the south to clear out the rebellious traitors..
It really is shameful that Americans are taught that they have any sort of power, and it's sad seeing them come to the conclusion that they actually don't. The "freedom"-loving libertarian's ego is apparently the hardest thing to destroy, but it must be destroyed for them to actually gain real freedom and power.
Again, we have to make sure people understand that American do NOT have freedom, and that any attempt to make it look that way is the powerful attempting to control the weak by giving the weak an illusion of power.
In summation:
War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is Strength
As an employer, I have to say that anybody stupid enough to work for a company that asks for credit information deserves what they get. The same goes for drug testing. If you're willing to sell your credit history and your personal health information for a job, then you're part of the problem.
OK, so when every job that isn't at McDonald's requires one, the other, or both, please explain how we're supposed to financially support ourselves and not be "part of the problem," as you put it.
Moral superiority is easy to feign when you're not the one getting screwed.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not really sure why your qualification excludes minimum wage jobs (unless it's just an attempt to back up your original comment, which is odd, considering you said "McDonald's", not "fast food" or "minimum wage"); are minimum wage jobs not valid?
Minimum wage jobs are not valid career choices.
Also, the very broad set I alluded to *do* include jobs paying above minimum wage, especially when you consider advancement within an organization.
Semantically, your phrase of "every job" is hyperbole, while mine of "plenty of jobs" is not.
I suppose I can concede those points, although I will point out that, in many of the occupations you listed, advancing beyond entry-level typically does require drug testing at a minimum, and often entail other, more intrusive background checks.
However, none of that changes the fact that OP is being an unreasonable dick about the whole thing, which is what I intended to point out.
No worries, I enjoyed the Battle of Athens link regardless.
This. Article is retarded.
Not to mention, summary is really just a shameless plug for parent company Dice.com
I think you're mistaking my post as an agreement with the parent, as opposed to the sardonic dig it actually is.
You know what's bullshit? Generalizations. Science and religion are not fundamentally opposed. Granted, there are many times that particular, individual interpretations of religion deny scientific fact, but to state that "religion is bullshit," and imply that one cannot be both a member of a religion and a scientist, proves to the reader that you do not understand either concept, and are rather spouting off as a result of your personal biases (which, BTW, is a fundamentally un-scientific methodology).
The irony, of course, is that the attitude you're showing towards religion is based on the same circular reasoning that creationists and the like use to justify their opposing positions.
Hope you're proud, as you've become that which you hate.
10 jobs? You dolt, it's company specific, not job specific.
For the record, stepping right out of the gate with an ad hominem is not a good way to endear others to your cause; much to the contrary, it only serves to make you look like an unreasonable asshole.
Nobody should work for a COMPANY that requires this kind of garbage.
Don't disagree, in spirit. What I disagree with is the concept that getting a job worth having somewhere that doesn't require employees to essentially sign their rights away is just as easy as you seem to think it is.
There are plenty of companies that don't treat their employees like cattle.
Okay, then name one. I mean, you say they exist, so naming just one shouldn't be that taxing, should it?
If you're not intelligent enough to find one, then that's really your problem, not mine.
Full circle back to the personal attacks, I see. You really don't want to be taken seriously, do you?
Do you ever tire of all the stupid, inane questions (see above) about god and religion and whatnot that you get asked, solely by virtue of the fact that you identify ideologically as a Follower of Christ?
I've only been exposed to the questions asked of you on this thread, and I'm already tired of it.
You're the one who said "every job that isn't at McDonald's requires one, the other, or both," so I'm not going to do your leg work for you, but feel free to call and ask your local small businesses (and gas stations, and grocery stores, and retail stores, and restaurants, etc etc).
I specifically said, "excluding minimum wage and under-the-table type jobs." The occupations you mentioned are almost exclusively minimum wage.
Of course, your response serves to support my point, so I guess I shouldn't bitch.
PS if you're going to accuse other people of being hyperbolic, you may want to avoid the behavior yourself - nobody likes a hypocrite.
due to be rolled out by the five largest U.S. ISPs
Which ones? I'd like to know who doesn't want my money.
Why not go the I.C. route? That way, you get to set your own hours, pick and choose which jobs you take, and also have the opportunity to learn about new technologies then subsequently implement them. Fun fun.
Hell, were I not in a station in life that basically requires a steady paycheck, or if I had the client base to make a real business out of it, I'd still be doing IC work myself.
Corperate AV also is a field that is exploding. AMX programming, Crestron programming currently is a very hot field right now. Plus you get to work with stuff that 99% of the guys on slashdot can only dream of ever touching in their life.
Having set up with a Crestron or two during my days as a roadie-for-hire, this statement puts a good ol' fashioned shit-eating grin on my face :D
Take that, microbiologists!
That't not as uncommon as you'd think, because a lot of people would get utterly bored and wouldn't like it.
Yes, this.
My father retired from mould-making about a year ago, and has spent the last few months looking for something he can do part-time, like working in a hardware store.
Partially, because his now-fixed-retirement-income isn't quite enough to fund his hobbies, but mostly because he's going out of his head with boredom.
There are plenty of jobs that don't require either of those things.
Such as? Name 10, excluding minimum wage and under-the-table type jobs like fast food and landscaping.
Good luck defining it as economic duress in court.
That depends, sadly, on how good your lawyer is.
Fortunately, mine is awesome
Not sure but I wouldn't settle for it, I'd discuss what I want altered and have them print up a new contract.
In Amerika, that earns you the response of, "OK, we'll just get rid of you and hire some other peon who is desperate enough for work to agree to our fucked-up terms without question."
Of course, the more cynical among us understand that this is but one reason that corporations have zero incentive to voluntarily fix the abysmal employment situation.
While that may very well be the case for high-end cameras, it ignores the fundamental basis of my argument - whether or not that camera gets repaired or replaced should be up to you, the person who owns it, and not the company that made it and sold it (to a retailer, who in turn sold it to you).
This isn't an issue of cost, it's a matter of Nikon telling their customers, "you are not allowed to fix that thing you bought, because we made it."
How can you lose a job you haven't been hired for yet?
Who ever said they hadn't been hired? OP specifically stated, "...signed something on their first day of employment..." which directly implies that the person was already hired, and was given a packet of documents to sign (post-hiring).
Having worked for a corporation before, I can attest that this is pretty much how things go down - first you're told you've got the job, sometimes conditional on passing a drug test (at this point I would agree, though I object to drug testing on a moral basis, that no harm has been done, as you haven't technically gotten the job yet).
Presuming that you pass the drug test, you're told what your schedule is; in corporate Amerika, the first day of employment is largely spent in the HR office, filling out forms and signing documents.
This is the point at which the harm occurs, as the individual in question has already been hired based on one set of criteria, and is now being told they must meet a different set of criteria or their employment will be terminated.
Therein lies the difference.
Well, last couple jobs I took that were W2 ones...I read over the employment agreement, and crossed out and and added verbage as I wanted it..and signed it.
They accepted this and gave me the jobs, so I would guess that's binding?
This is something I would love to know myself, as I have a habit of doing the exact same thing.
Is there an employment/contract lawyer in the house who can clarify this point?
Actually, these days OBD-II diagnosis is a bit more available, thanks to cheaper scanners offered by companies like JC Whitney and Jegs. Granted, a lot of those lower-end scanners won't tell you much about your machine, other than reporting trouble codes, but if you have the bucks you can, as a consumer, purchase one of the super-fancy versions that does things like live sensor readouts, in addition to trouble code access.
Of course, if you have an Android device, you could always get a bluetooth OBDII reader and the Torque app to access that real-time sensor output goodness.
Worked on a BMW? Secret decoder ring sockets. The bolts are like torque tools. The sockets are like torque bolts.
They make _cheep_ versions now, but for decades it was tool truck only.
Indeed - matter of fact, my first experience of not being able to work on a car for lack of tools was when I was in college, trying to align the suspension on a classmate's 2000 BMW 5 series - the toe adjustment has to be done with a special tool, exclusively available to BMW dealerships.
Since neither BMW nor any of the nearby dealerships were willing to sell/loan one of these tools to our automotive technology training facility, I had no choice but to tell my friend he was S.O.L. Consequently, I flat refuse to provide BMW with any custom.
>>>Next simplest solution: make "Bail-out" == Nationalization. if we taxpayers are footing the bill, we have every right to own that motherfucker.
Govt run companies are in general bloated, inefficient, and are fertile corruption grounds.
... and privately run banks aren't?
FWIW, it's not necessarily the action of nationalization that would encourage better business practices, but rather the threat of it.
Yeah, your shotgun and handgun are really going to protect you if the US government wants to kill you. You're fucking delusional.
Which is precisely why the 2nd Amendment states, "The right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
That you don't understand the definition of the word "infringed" is of no consequence.
obey the government, and work within the system to gain power. Don't bother trying to overthrow the Matrix.
The US Government, like all governments, has the exact same power structure as any other government, and that is: the strong get to rule over the weak.
You freedom-loving libertarians need to understand this concept. It really is a flaw among you libertarians to think that you somehow live in a "free" country. No, you do NOT live in a free country. You never have. Try breaking a law, and see how much freedom you have.
You're better off accepting that you have no power, rather than thinking you have any sort of power under a democracy. The key is, if you accepted how powerless you were, you would form different methods of gaining power, instead of through silly methods such as through the 2nd amendment, which was designed to help government control you...
Nobody at this point actually thinks their pathetic handgun is going to protect them against tyranny by a government armed with SWAT teams, drones, and nuclear missiles, do they? And their power was actually demonstrated via a civil war where Gen. Sherman burnt down half the south to clear out the rebellious traitors..
It really is shameful that Americans are taught that they have any sort of power, and it's sad seeing them come to the conclusion that they actually don't. The "freedom"-loving libertarian's ego is apparently the hardest thing to destroy, but it must be destroyed for them to actually gain real freedom and power.
Again, we have to make sure people understand that American do NOT have freedom, and that any attempt to make it look that way is the powerful attempting to control the weak by giving the weak an illusion of power.
In summation:
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
As an employer, I have to say that anybody stupid enough to work for a company that asks for credit information deserves what they get. The same goes for drug testing. If you're willing to sell your credit history and your personal health information for a job, then you're part of the problem.
OK, so when every job that isn't at McDonald's requires one, the other, or both, please explain how we're supposed to financially support ourselves and not be "part of the problem," as you put it.
Moral superiority is easy to feign when you're not the one getting screwed.
How is this different than a hacker obtaining information without your consent and offering it for sale?
Hackers don't force you to sign your life away when you enter a professional relationship with them.