For all your MacOS X application needs the best place to find them now is at www.stepwise.com 's "SoftTrak" site.
It is mostly Yellow Box/Cocoa software ported from OpenStep, Next and xBSDs, but there is a lot of useful stuff. Not all has been updated to support DP3 though... only MacOS X Server.
OmniWeb is now DP3 compatible.
I don't think apps will be too much of a problem. I think that within 2 months of it's release, most of the Mac shareware will be Carbon-compliant (many popular ones, like the Anarchie FTP client and Graphic Converter already are). I'm not sure about the commercial software. I'm sure Apple will want to have one or two of the big boys (Adobe, Macromedia, Quark, MS etc.) showing off MacOS X software when it is released at MWNY in July. But the immense scale of those programs might prevent that.
Adobe hasn't updated Photoshop for a while, so maybe they are trying to make PS 6.0 carbon-compliant, who knows.
I am running MacOS X DP3 on my B&W G3/350 with 128MB of RAM and it runs "smoothly". I find it just as fast or faster than MacOS 9, for window drawing, updates, that sort of things. The only thing that is a little slower is launching apps and that is probably mostly due to debug code.
As we've been discussing with the author of the article on MacOSX Talk... this is review of a "Developer Preview" a.k.a. pre-Beta. You can't expect much.
Anyone remember how stable/fast W2K (then NT5) was when it was still in Alpha? I do.;)
While I think that since NASA is the single largest Space Agency in the world, and therefore should have a leading role, it should not be the only player when it comes to advancing our progress into space.
It does not make sense to NOT use the resources of the many other highly advanced space agencies (inclding Russia, Japan, and Europe) and their supporting economies to build a large platform orbiting the earth. If the US did it alone it would be smaller, less diverse, and while still invaluable, ultimitely a burden on the US economy.
The problem with the ISC and Russia is not anything technical, it is Russia's lack of economic and political stability. It will be some time before those issues resolve themselves, but I'm sure they will. I think that within the next 5-10 years Russia wil be strong both internally and economically and will be a valuable partner.
It will help when MIR finally hits the Deck too...
So does anyone know what is wrong with the Proton rockets?
Apple won't be porting it YOU will.
on
Darwin on Crusoe?
·
· Score: 2
Does anyone here actually thing thak Apple Inc. (notice the "Computer" is gone) is actually going to waste time and money on porting Darwin to other architectures? OF COURSE NOT!
The whole POINT of Darwin is that it is under the APSL... Apple has ALREADY been encouraging developers to port Darwin to any platform they feel like. There is already a Darwin source compileable on Linux/x86. The only reason there aren't others is because all Darwin developement is pretty much on hold until DP3 is released and the Darwin codebase is synched with MacOS X.
When that happens we will have Mach 3.0, IOKit (Driver builder) and all the new tools/features that MacOS X has (and grow with) so we can effectively start porting Darwin to x86 (again, the source is already there), Sparc, MIPS, IA-64... whatever! Apple doesn't care. They don't have to do the work, they just manage the results and fold the changes back into MacOS X (and vice versa).
There is no doubt in my mind that by this time next year Darwin will be running on x86 and at least one or two other "Alternative" platforms (most likely SPARC and Alpha). Unless MacOS X dies, I don't see why Darwin wouldn't be on all relevant platforms within 2-3 years.
The trick to all this of course is whether Apple will:
a) "OpenSource" Cocoa, perhaps we could use GNUStep instead?
b) make a MacOS X product that could install on any "supported" installion of Darwin.
Effectively making MacOS X a fully portable operting system not dependant on hardware, only on Darwin.
I wonder if it will also cover drivers that will eventually be released for the Darwin OS. Mr. Sanchez (head Core BSD guy at Apple) said that the reception for Darwin at FreeBSDCON was pretty good.
He said that he wanted to check out the FreeBSD style documentation for use with Darwin so maybe they'll use the driver database too.
This is GREAT! This technology has been rumored to be part of IBM/Mot plans for the generation of PowerPC after G4 (I think it's called V-Ger). This is the first official document that I have seen mention it.
I think the rumor sites have the multi-PowerPC chip slated for 2001/2002... but that's not taking into account the Book-E architecture that they are developing too. That's due around the same time... it's another "wait and see and hope" scenario I guess.
The Power"X" line always gets the cool technologies before they trickle down to PowerPC but at least now I know the plans are definitely in the making.
What about everyone who DOESN"T live in the US and really wants to support NASA.
As much as many would hate to admit it, NASA is the only organization in the world with the resources to go to places like Mars, the Moon, Europa, and Pluto.
Maybe someone could post a petition that we can send to the president and to NASA... better yet, set up a site that has mailing addresses... snail-mail is always more effective.
Although, 100 000 "virtual signatures" would work pretty well I bet too;)
Yes... but in that time SCSI was just SO much better than everything else that they went for it. The iBook has USB, and that's all it needs for now. You can get HD, CDRs, scanners, printers, tablets, mice, etc.etc. for USB *now*. Sure it's slow, but at least the selection is there... I'm sure Apple will include FireWire at a later date once it has fully caught on and options are abundant...(P2?)
I'm also sure you will be able to get some sort of expansion card that will enable firewire connectivity...
just like what they said about the iMac... and look how well it's (still) selling.
3.2 is small, I agree... but this isn't a "desktop replacement" like the PowerBooks... it's a mobile that you will use during the day.
Too bad about SCSI... I guess they're just phazing it out. FireWire is not really needed, peripherals are too expensive for now and there aren't enough of them...
Here are the specs from the presentation at MacWorld...
"iBook" the "iMac to go"
-- 12.1" full TFT -- 800*600/millions color.. ATI RAGE Mobility -- 300MHz G3 -- built-in 24 CD -- 32MB.. expandable 264MB RAM -- 56K, USB, 10/100 Ethernet -- full keyboard -- 6 hours battery life] -- iMac plastics and rubber coating -- handle, opens like a cell phone (no latch needed)
$1599-- available "this September" in volume
accepting pre-orders today
wireless networking... "AirPort wireless"? 802.11 11Mb/s... working with Lucent Airport base station... 56K/10-100 can accept an "AirPort" card... iBook has built-in antennas... 10 iBooks can share one base station
and I'm sure all the next updates of all the major OS's will too...
They showed an IPv6 version of traceroute running at WWDC as a demo. They ping/traced to the dev centers in Japan just to prove it worked... I'm sure it'll be widely accepted once all the software is ready.
They have lots of other things to work on... I'm sure they'll consider it sometime down the road (especially with Darwin). But I doubt it's high on the priority list...
The legal issues were pretty much solved with APSL 1.1... (which was released about a month after 1.0) no one has complained since.
The OSX/Apache thing is still there... but it's not really an issue because it doesn't really affect normal Apache operations. Apple is working on a fix for Serer but MacOS X Developer Preview 1 is already immune to the bug, so I suspect they aren't too worried.
This is the one thing that really seems to be coming out of PSV that is completely untrue. When Steve Jobs and Bill Gates announced, two years ago, that Microsoft would be investing $150 million in Apple it wasn't a "buy out". It's only an investment. A deal signed by the two companies for mutual gain.
Apple got a commitment from Microsoft for developement of their products (mainly Office)for the Mac platform. Since then, Microsoft has created a completely seperate division especially for development of Mac products (which is why the Office release dates between Mac/Win are not simultaneous). They also got the monetary boost of Microsoft investing $150 million in their stock... remember, Apple Computer has Billions in the bank, so it's not like MS bought up half the company.
In turn Microsoft got the assurance from Apple that they would not sue MS (for millions) for infringment on any patents (GUI or whatever). It was very much a mutually benefinial contract, some say (including myself) that it was a MUST for Apple to get but I think that MS is still better for it as well.
That contract expires in 2000 or 2001 I believe so it should be interesting to see what happens then.
Pheww... just thought I'd clear that up as best I could;=)
With Darwin this is more than possible. The developer releases of MacOS X Server (Rhapsody) all had x86 versions.
The code is there. People just need to (and are) clean it up and make it work. OpenStep (on which much of MacOS X is based) was renowned for it's portability. It ran on x86, Sparc and Alpha I think. There is nothing stopping people from porting Darwin to MacOS X.
The interesting part is whether Apple will heed the call and sell their GUI and APIs to go on top of Darwin wherever it is ported.
I wouldn't be so sure about that... apparently they took, and returned, alot of code from the NetBSD group and FreeBSD group.
If you read that Maccentral article I think it quoted one of the NetBSD guys actually... saying exactly the opposite to what you said. Besides, do you REALLY think that the BSD community would "embrace" Darwin if it was jsut stealing all their code.
Also, if you look at the PDF documentation that comes with MacOS X Server you will notice at the end all the credits. They include, Net, Open, FreeBSD as well as Apache, and various other OS groups.
I don't think they took so much from the OpenBSD group, but they did take some.
Because it is Apple, it's a commercial OS. They are also opening things like AppleTalk, NetInfo, their DriverKit (IOKit), filesystem (HFS,HFS+) and a few other things that have never seen the light of day.
This was really done in response to the outcry that there wasn't an x86 port of MacOS X (All the developer releases, Rhapsody, had a fully functional x86 version). So by releasing Darwin they released all the x86 code that was already there so that we can port it over. Darwin is a *very* portable system so eventually we should see it on Sparc and Alpha too.
Then Apple can sell the MacOS X GUI on top... and there will be a REAL MS killer;).
but my Step-mother's cousin is developing at his company that sounds similar to this story.
Apparently there is a whole mess of EM "space" in electrical power lines that are not used for anything... only a small portion is actually used to carry electricity. So, my cousins' company is developing a way so that Power companies can use that "space" to transmit data about the usage/time etc. Obviously, this is really good for places with very remote communities that you can't get a meter reader to.
They had a two or three provinces in China very interested in the technology...
Anyway, I seem to remember him saying something along the lines that there is a whole lot of bandwidth in the Power Grid that we could be using... it'd be cheap too.;)
sounds like something my step father has been wishing for for years. He used to always scream "arm the torpedoes!!" when we got stuck behind a motorhome... can you imagine a motorhome SkyCar?! It'd be like an AirBus or something!!:)
but I like to think this is pretty cool... except for the speed. Isn't that like 747 style numbers? yikes, there's a misprint...
in any case it reminds me of the movie that I saw 13 times when I was a child (and still get excited to see when it comes on TV). BACK TO THE FUTURE!! God what a bad movie... all three;+)
Whadda ya say we get Micheal J. Fox or Christopher Loyd to test this thing... it'd be kinda like when they named the first Space Shuttle "Enterprise". heheh:)
They want to port and pack in some of the common utilities and services that come in every Linux distribution and make a similar distribution for Darwin (which is the Open Source version of MacOS X).
Right now, Darwin is just a binary that you download and install... it doesn't come with anything except the raw files to make it work and compile
This is true. I think thought that in the future it will be based all on FreeBSD. They said at WWDC that the BSD APIs and services in MacOS X will be standardized on FreeBSD 3.x. This good I think... better to get all the code from one place rather than a whole mess of places (Open, Net AND FreeBSD)
That's a good point... it might be worth sending that concern to Apple. At least ask them for clarification on whether that is what the license actually implies.
trust me... this "tell-us" thing works. If your concern is valid (as yours is) they will at least e-mail you personally. They usually phone. I have used this three times and have been phoned back twice.
Slashdot Mirror
For all your MacOS X application needs the best place to find them now is at www.stepwise.com 's "SoftTrak" site.
It is mostly Yellow Box/Cocoa software ported from OpenStep, Next and xBSDs, but there is a lot of useful stuff. Not all has been updated to support DP3 though... only MacOS X Server.
OmniWeb is now DP3 compatible.
I don't think apps will be too much of a problem. I think that within 2 months of it's release, most of the Mac shareware will be Carbon-compliant (many popular ones, like the Anarchie FTP client and Graphic Converter already are). I'm not sure about the commercial software. I'm sure Apple will want to have one or two of the big boys (Adobe, Macromedia, Quark, MS etc.) showing off MacOS X software when it is released at MWNY in July. But the immense scale of those programs might prevent that.
Adobe hasn't updated Photoshop for a while, so maybe they are trying to make PS 6.0 carbon-compliant, who knows.
Just an FYI.
;)
I am running MacOS X DP3 on my B&W G3/350 with 128MB of RAM and it runs "smoothly". I find it just as fast or faster than MacOS 9, for window drawing, updates, that sort of things. The only thing that is a little slower is launching apps and that is probably mostly due to debug code.
As we've been discussing with the author of the article on MacOSX Talk... this is review of a "Developer Preview" a.k.a. pre-Beta. You can't expect much.
Anyone remember how stable/fast W2K (then NT5) was when it was still in Alpha? I do.
While I think that since NASA is the single largest Space Agency in the world, and therefore should have a leading role, it should not be the only player when it comes to advancing our progress into space.
It does not make sense to NOT use the resources of the many other highly advanced space agencies (inclding Russia, Japan, and Europe) and their supporting economies to build a large platform orbiting the earth. If the US did it alone it would be smaller, less diverse, and while still invaluable, ultimitely a burden on the US economy.
The problem with the ISC and Russia is not anything technical, it is Russia's lack of economic and political stability. It will be some time before those issues resolve themselves, but I'm sure they will. I think that within the next 5-10 years Russia wil be strong both internally and economically and will be a valuable partner.
It will help when MIR finally hits the Deck too...
So does anyone know what is wrong with the Proton rockets?
Does anyone here actually thing thak Apple Inc. (notice the "Computer" is gone) is actually going to waste time and money on porting Darwin to other architectures? OF COURSE NOT!
The whole POINT of Darwin is that it is under the APSL... Apple has ALREADY been encouraging developers to port Darwin to any platform they feel like. There is already a Darwin source compileable on Linux/x86. The only reason there aren't others is because all Darwin developement is pretty much on hold until DP3 is released and the Darwin codebase is synched with MacOS X.
When that happens we will have Mach 3.0, IOKit (Driver builder) and all the new tools/features that MacOS X has (and grow with) so we can effectively start porting Darwin to x86 (again, the source is already there), Sparc, MIPS, IA-64... whatever! Apple doesn't care. They don't have to do the work, they just manage the results and fold the changes back into MacOS X (and vice versa).
There is no doubt in my mind that by this time next year Darwin will be running on x86 and at least one or two other "Alternative" platforms (most likely SPARC and Alpha). Unless MacOS X dies, I don't see why Darwin wouldn't be on all relevant platforms within 2-3 years.
The trick to all this of course is whether Apple will:
Effectively making MacOS X a fully portable operting system not dependant on hardware, only on Darwin.
I wonder if it will also cover drivers that will eventually be released for the Darwin OS. Mr. Sanchez (head Core BSD guy at Apple) said that the reception for Darwin at FreeBSDCON was pretty good.
He said that he wanted to check out the FreeBSD style documentation for use with Darwin so maybe they'll use the driver database too.
Need the synch to MacOS X and IOKit first though.
Heheh, yeah, and you can add MacOS X Server and MacOS X (client, due next year) to the list of platforms you can easily port Unix apps too.
;)
BeOS isn't too far either (though a little tougher).
heheh... haha Windows
This is GREAT! This technology has been rumored to be part of IBM/Mot plans for the generation of PowerPC after G4 (I think it's called V-Ger). This is the first official document that I have seen mention it.
I think the rumor sites have the multi-PowerPC chip slated for 2001/2002... but that's not taking into account the Book-E architecture that they are developing too. That's due around the same time... it's another "wait and see and hope" scenario I guess.
The Power"X" line always gets the cool technologies before they trickle down to PowerPC but at least now I know the plans are definitely in the making.
mmmmmm... multicore PowerPC... mmmm
What about everyone who DOESN"T live in the US and really wants to support NASA.
;)
As much as many would hate to admit it, NASA is the only organization in the world with the resources to go to places like Mars, the Moon, Europa, and Pluto.
Maybe someone could post a petition that we can send to the president and to NASA... better yet, set up a site that has mailing addresses... snail-mail is always more effective.
Although, 100 000 "virtual signatures" would work pretty well I bet too
Yes... but in that time SCSI was just SO much better than everything else that they went for it. The iBook has USB, and that's all it needs for now. You can get HD, CDRs, scanners, printers, tablets, mice, etc.etc. for USB *now*. Sure it's slow, but at least the selection is there... I'm sure Apple will include FireWire at a later date once it has fully caught on and options are abundant...(P2?)
I'm also sure you will be able to get some sort of expansion card that will enable firewire connectivity...
"a very closed design"
just like what they said about the iMac... and look how well it's (still) selling.
3.2 is small, I agree... but this isn't a "desktop replacement" like the PowerBooks... it's a mobile that you will use during the day.
Too bad about SCSI... I guess they're just phazing it out. FireWire is not really needed, peripherals are too expensive for now and there aren't enough of them...
sorry, RAM is expandable to *128MB* NOT 264...
it comes in two colors... blueberry/tangerine
512K L2 cache
66MHz bus
3.2GB IDE HD
built-in mono speaker
16-bit stereo ouput
ATI chip is AGP 2X!!! (the FIRST Mac product with AGP!!)... 4MB SDRAM
Width: 13.5"
Height: 29.4"
ave depth: 1.8"
weight: 6.7lbs
Here are the specs from the presentation at MacWorld...
"iBook"
the
"iMac to go"
-- 12.1" full TFT
-- 800*600/millions color.. ATI RAGE Mobility
-- 300MHz G3
-- built-in 24 CD
-- 32MB.. expandable 264MB RAM
-- 56K, USB, 10/100 Ethernet
-- full keyboard
-- 6 hours battery life]
-- iMac plastics and rubber coating
-- handle, opens like a cell phone (no latch needed)
$1599-- available "this September" in volume
accepting pre-orders today
wireless networking... "AirPort wireless"? 802.11 11Mb/s... working with Lucent
Airport base station... 56K/10-100 can accept an "AirPort" card... iBook has built-in antennas... 10 iBooks can share one base station
150 feet away
and I'm sure all the next updates of all the major OS's will too...
They showed an IPv6 version of traceroute running at WWDC as a demo. They ping/traced to the dev centers in Japan just to prove it worked... I'm sure it'll be widely accepted once all the software is ready.
instead of whining about it here why don't you participate on the mailing list and get them to fix it yourself
They have lots of other things to work on... I'm sure they'll consider it sometime down the road (especially with Darwin). But I doubt it's high on the priority list...
... (which was released about a month after 1.0) no one has complained since.
The legal issues were pretty much solved with APSL 1.1
The OSX/Apache thing is still there... but it's not really an issue because it doesn't really affect normal Apache operations. Apple is working on a fix for Serer but MacOS X Developer Preview 1 is already immune to the bug, so I suspect they aren't too worried.
This is the one thing that really seems to be coming out of PSV that is completely untrue. When Steve Jobs and Bill Gates announced, two years ago, that Microsoft would be investing $150 million in Apple it wasn't a "buy out". It's only an investment. A deal signed by the two companies for mutual gain.
;=)
Apple got a commitment from Microsoft for developement of their products (mainly Office)for the Mac platform. Since then, Microsoft has created a completely seperate division especially for development of Mac products (which is why the Office release dates between Mac/Win are not simultaneous). They also got the monetary boost of Microsoft investing $150 million in their stock... remember, Apple Computer has Billions in the bank, so it's not like MS bought up half the company.
In turn Microsoft got the assurance from Apple that they would not sue MS (for millions) for infringment on any patents (GUI or whatever). It was very much a mutually benefinial contract, some say (including myself) that it was a MUST for Apple to get but I think that MS is still better for it as well.
That contract expires in 2000 or 2001 I believe so it should be interesting to see what happens then.
Pheww... just thought I'd clear that up as best I could
With Darwin this is more than possible.
The developer releases of MacOS X Server (Rhapsody) all had x86 versions.
The code is there. People just need to (and are) clean it up and make it work. OpenStep (on which much of MacOS X is based) was renowned for it's portability. It ran on x86, Sparc and Alpha I think. There is nothing stopping people from porting Darwin to MacOS X.
The interesting part is whether Apple will heed the call and sell their GUI and APIs to go on top of Darwin wherever it is ported.
I wouldn't be so sure about that... apparently they took, and returned, alot of code from the NetBSD group and FreeBSD group.
If you read that Maccentral article I think it quoted one of the NetBSD guys actually... saying exactly the opposite to what you said. Besides, do you REALLY think that the BSD community would "embrace" Darwin if it was jsut stealing all their code.
Also, if you look at the PDF documentation that comes with MacOS X Server you will notice at the end all the credits. They include, Net, Open, FreeBSD as well as Apache, and various other OS groups.
I don't think they took so much from the OpenBSD group, but they did take some.
Because it is Apple, it's a commercial OS. They are also opening things like AppleTalk, NetInfo, their DriverKit (IOKit), filesystem (HFS,HFS+) and a few other things that have never seen the light of day.
;).
This was really done in response to the outcry that there wasn't an x86 port of MacOS X (All the developer releases, Rhapsody, had a fully functional x86 version). So by releasing Darwin they released all the x86 code that was already there so that we can port it over. Darwin is a *very* portable system so eventually we should see it on Sparc and Alpha too.
Then Apple can sell the MacOS X GUI on top... and there will be a REAL MS killer
but my Step-mother's cousin is developing at his company that sounds similar to this story.
Apparently there is a whole mess of EM "space" in electrical power lines that are not used for anything... only a small portion is actually used to carry electricity. So, my cousins' company is developing a way so that Power companies can use that "space" to transmit data about the usage/time etc. Obviously, this is really good for places with very remote communities that you can't get a meter reader to.
They had a two or three provinces in China very interested in the technology...
Anyway, I seem to remember him saying something along the lines that there is a whole lot of bandwidth in the Power Grid that we could be using... it'd be cheap too.;)
lol!
:)
sounds like something my step father has been wishing for for years. He used to always scream "arm the torpedoes!!" when we got stuck behind a motorhome... can you imagine a motorhome SkyCar?! It'd be like an AirBus or something!!
but I like to think this is pretty cool... except for the speed. Isn't that like 747 style numbers? yikes, there's a misprint...
;+)
:)
in any case it reminds me of the movie that I saw 13 times when I was a child (and still get excited to see when it comes on TV). BACK TO THE FUTURE!! God what a bad movie... all three
Whadda ya say we get Micheal J. Fox or Christopher Loyd to test this thing... it'd be kinda like when they named the first Space Shuttle "Enterprise". heheh
They want to port and pack in some of the common utilities and services that come in every Linux distribution and make a similar distribution for Darwin (which is the Open Source version of MacOS X).
Right now, Darwin is just a binary that you download and install... it doesn't come with anything except the raw files to make it work and compile
This is true. I think thought that in the future it will be based all on FreeBSD. They said at WWDC that the BSD APIs and services in MacOS X will be standardized on FreeBSD 3.x. This good I think... better to get all the code from one place rather than a whole mess of places (Open, Net AND FreeBSD)
That's a good point... it might be worth sending that concern to Apple. At least ask them for clarification on whether that is what the license actually implies.
v ey/feedback/feedback.qry?function=complain tform
http://survey.info.apple.com/info.apple.com/sur
trust me... this "tell-us" thing works. If your concern is valid (as yours is) they will at least e-mail you personally. They usually phone. I have used this three times and have been phoned back twice.