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New PowerBook G3 & the iBook
Krakus Irus wrote in with the alert that Apple has released the specs on the new Powerbook G3. Up to 400 mhz, USB, firewire, 20% thinner then the previous machines and two pounds lighter. 14.1 display-it looks nice. What we're waiting on is the news about the new consumer portable-that will be coming out today. Check the rumours about the new consumer book. Update: 07/21 03:19 by H : It's been announced. The new iBook-and it looks /really/ nice. Comes out in Sept. at 1599$US.
Dunno, I think the features are about right on target. What I don't like is the price. It should sell for about the same as, or maybe a $100 more than the iMac. I'd like one, but at $1600, I'd just wait for the closeouts of one of the Professional range. I'd just as soon pay a few hundred more for the 14.1" screen with better speed, and features. Plus I see where if you've two batteries on the new Pro's they'll run for 10 hours, under the right conditions, even if they only last 5 hours under heavy use, that is still pretty killer!
Actually, according to SPEC95 benchmarks, megahertz for megahertz PPCs are slightly faster on integer and Pentium IIs/IIIs are only slightly faster on floating point. They're really comparible now. However, that's desktop Pentiums. The portable versions are notoriously slower for most tasks while the PPCs are the same chip in both desktop and portable versions due to their low power consumption. On the other hand, Pentium IIIs have MMX and SSE, which can give the better performance on some games that someone else mentioned. The iBook, however, has one of the best portable 2D/3D chipsets out there built to help make up that difference. Also, though it's Lord knows how long from finally coming out, the G4 series of chips will have Altivec for pure MMX/SSE crushing power. That's an irrelevant side issue, but I just had to get that jab in there.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
On the surface, the Be engineers appear like the good guys, being victimized by Microsoft and Apple. The truth, however, is that they're a bunch of pompous asses with quite an attitude. Witness their FAQ about installing on a logical partition: http://www-classic.be.c om/support/qandas/faqs/faq-0462.html. In it, they say that because only Linux and OS/2 support installation on an extended partition, that they don't need to support it because the only successful OS (Windows) doesn't support it. What they don't want to admit is that if they expect people to use BeOS along side other OS's, then you damn better support logical parititions otherwise some people might not be able to add BeOS.
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
I know you're tongue's in your cheek, but I bet you'll look long and hard before you find a faster and more flexible networking implementation than Open Transport (which uses Mentat's Streams technology). It is, in a word, awesome.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
It has an ethernet port, so a customer just needs to buy their own ether hub, which they should be able to find for less than $50.
Considering that the iMac, the Blue G3s and the current Powerbooks have OpenGL support, and that Apple's policy of standardizing on motherboard components and ATI chipsets, expect the iBook to support OpenGL.
What? Do you want to crack open your laptop and add a 4 port serial card so you can run your BBS from your laptop? It's a cheap, fast laptop that is designed for students, people on the run, etc..
/Fireware/SCSI/Parallel devices around.. yeesh...
A student typing their thesis in a library doesn't want to carry an kind of peripherals around, and a person on the go just wants to carry their laptop, not a plethora of USB
www.jackasscritics.com
Tell me...
Was that CS student your employee?
Cause if he was he was ripping you off and using excuses to use more time...
Renaming a file is a doodle under MacOS...
of course macs have linux support!
www.mklinux.org, www.linuxppc.com
linuxppc is by far the best choice, but check out mklinux if anyone has an older power mac
--- pandrax-
no, not in sleep mode... under "normal use conditions"...
3 hours with the DVD rom spinning the whole time... still way ahead of anything on the from the wintel conspirators.
Actually, the speed difference is going to be apparent from more than just the video card specs. It's got a pig of a system bus (66 MHz), a relatively small L2 cache, and a tiny amount of physical memory.
That disk isn't going to be winning any races, either...
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
12.1 inch display? did apple just set back in time about 4 years? i beta tested laptops at dell last year, and 14.1 was the standard, with the 15 inch inspiron 7000 the premium.
Two problems with this. First is the price. 12" is cheaper than 14". Apple's pro line has 14". They wanted this to be within the reach of the average consumer. A 14" monitor would've added to the price.
More importantly, this is designed to be a small machine. They're promoting this as the machine you take with you on the schoolbus, up into the tree house, on the couch, etc. A bigger display means a heavier iBook. 12" is plenty big for what it needs to do.
they also mention playing multiplayer games. no way you'll get openGL support for this box's hardware, so you better be into bridge.
Nonsense. The iBook has a high-end ATI portable graphics chipset, and the MacOS has OpenGL support built in. At the keynote, Bungie showed a kick-ass new game called "Halo" that had some real-time animated OpenGL scenes that I thought were very impressive. This thing'll be able to run anything existing PowerMacs and iMacs can now, and that includes all the big games: Quake III, Starcraft (Brood Wars soon), Myth II, and others. Steve Jobs is making a big push for games on the Mac, and standardizing on OpenGL is a big piece of that push.
Do some reading before you post on something you know nothing about.
Smoke grey is generally used for prototypes. The G3 b/w was seen in purple/grey for a while, but the actual units are blue and white. They're highly unlikely to sell grey iBooks, but it makes them pretty easy to distinguish.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
32 megs should be enough... remember it is not running Win98 there... :u))
Beside, at least it is upgreadable... if you need more than 256 megs of Ram well... my take is you should look at something else than a iBook...
So are you saying that consumers as well as business people don't want a choice of non-fruity colors?
As a consumer, I find these to be even uglier than the iMac. If I wanted a consumer portable, I'd still want something that looks good and won't be mistaken for my kid's magna-doodle.
the good thing about the ugly colours is it implies that the machine is extreamly cheap. Actually, it is very good value, but their (reletively) new black ones look so damn nice that i can't understand why anyone would prefer this...
i guess they know what they are doing though... after all they did sell (how many million?) imacs
If you don't like the iMac, you won't like its portable kin. Duh. Guess what...Mr. Jobs probably wasn't talking to you.
I've got a FINE idea...DON'T BUY ONE. That way we won't have to hear you whining all the time about how often you transfer data on slow, clunky, error-prone 3.5" floppies.
Get a ZIP drive. Get a SuperDrive. Get an ORB drive. They're hot pluggable, they weigh about as much as a paperback novel, and you get several orders of magnitude more storage capacity.
If you're a consultant who works a lot with needlessly paranoid companies who are more concerned about ludicrous security concerns than with efficient problem solving, well this isn't the laptop for you. I don't think Apple will miss those four customers.
For me, my only complaint is that I can't get one in red. Yet.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
It's not for everyone -- it's certainly for those who like their boxes a little different than the no-nonsense kernel-compilin' crowd.
But personally, this iBook kicks my ass up and down the block. It's funky, it's affordable, it's got a lot of great features.
Hmm.. an iBook, or a new, sleek, slim PowerBook G3?
Life is good!
To rename a file in the Mac: click on the name under the icon, and type in the new name. Your friend must type *real* slow. ;) While in the application, go to file, the click on save as, then type in the new name. 15 minutes? Did he RTFM?
photosMy Photostream
No amount of RAM or money will make a Windows notebook run Photoshop as fast as a Lombard series Powerbook. The desktop G3 at 400MHz runs Photoshop 35% faster then a 500MHz Pentium III, and the 400MHz G3 powerbook is only a little slower then the desktop, while current PC notebooks are a lot slower then a PIII500.
"Remember, there never were pineapple-almond cookies here."
Actually, by looking at Apple's pages on AirPort, they will not be that expensive.
But anyhow, it seems that AirPort will play nicely with many other wireless networking products, the 802.11 being a standard and all.
And what is even better, a short search on AltaVista for Linux and IEEE 802.11 showed that some projects are already in place building Linux drivers for the 802.11 WLANs. Check out AbsoluteValue's page on it.
--
Midgard Project - Open Source CMS
http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/
- Vincit qui patitur.
They're basically trying to make the AOL of laptops. A LOT of people *like* AOL. I don't know why, but they do.
Luckily, you don't have to buy one.
OK, so you don't want to pay $3600. I can't blame you at all for that. But you have 3 choices at 3 price points, with approximately $1000 between each one of them:
1: An iBook for $1600
2: A Lombard 333 for $2500
3: A Lombard 400 with DVD for $3600
I'd like to see a few more options in there, too, but that pretty much hits all the price points I can think of. The Lombards only have one PC Card slot, and the iBooks none, but both systems have USB, 10/100 Ethernet and 56k modems already on-board - so it's not that big an issue, I think. I would like to see a $2000 Lombard with, say, a 266 or 300 MHz processor and maybe a 13" screen, and a $4000 Lombard with a 15" screen, but I'm nitpicking. When my 3400 at home runs out of gas (I clocked it up to 270MHz, but it's starting to wheeze on stuff like Office 98), I'll probably snag an iBook by then. It'll have the same resolution as the 3400 (12" 800x600), with much better speed and battery life. Nice road machine.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Sure, the computer is quite basic and lacking in some areas (32 megs of ram, WHAT?). But I'd have to disagee about the speed. The G3 is much faster than most people think and 300mhz is fast even when compared to the newest PIII.
I personally love it, but not for it's features. I got sold by watching the webcast. Get this, Steve had two iBooks going at once. One had an acceleronmeter connected to it, and one had software for reading data from it. Steve set up a wireless internet server on the the iBook with the accelerometer and connected to it from his own, wirelessly. Then he got this guy to hold the book and jump off a 25' platform into an airbag. Steve's book captured all the accelerometer results and showed them live on the Jumbotron. All wireless, auninterupted, using one AirPort.
Slick Indeed.
The new iBook is rather a lump - larger even than the (May released) Bronze PB G3's
Compare the specs
Bronze G3 Powerbook
Size and weight
Width: 10.4 inches (26.4 cm)
Height: 12.7 inches (32.3 cm)
Depth: 1.7 inches (4.3 cm)
Weight: 5.9 pounds (2.68 kg) with CD-ROM
drive and battery installed (varies by
configuration)
iBook
Width: 13.5 inches (34.4 cm)
Height: 11.6 inches (29.4 cm)
Average depth: 1.8 inches (4.6 cm); depth
ranges from 1.24 inches (3.15 cm) at the
thinnest point to 2.06 inches (5.2 cm) at the
thickest point
Weight: 6.7 pounds (3.0 kg)
all in all, I can't see a good reason to buy it in place of a bronze powerbook G3 - which has video out (and will drive a big external monitor at hi rez ) and can be used in place of a desktop.
Now the Airport - THAT's cool...
Nick (forgotten password) May
I hate inflammatory posts, but...
How #!@)#@ stupid do you have to be to not be able to figure out renaming files on a Mac?
Your CS friend isn't qualified for a McJob, much less anything in the high-tech industry if he can't figure that one out. Fer crying out loud, you simply click to select the icon, and click a second time directly on the words. That's where Windows got its cloned behaviour. Geez, the only way I can see you having a problem is if you tried to name a file with a colon in it -- that's the Mac's path seperator, and it just gets replaced with a dash.
Perhaps your "friend" is actually yourself. You seem to display an amazingly vocal ignorance about the actual workings of the OS. Why don't you sit down with it for a few hours without TRYING to find things to hate about it.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Old news....
This is absolutely amazing. I've been watching this technology for years, and the price has *finally* come down to ground level. Heck, buy the *hubs* and use them to connect your machines together.
That is, assuming that they bridge IP, and not just AppleProprietaryProtocol.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
That would be my complaint too. It seems like the OS is just a toy with no real complexity. It's nice to have a happy smily interface but it's extremely necessary to have something that can flick a switch to make it complex. The whole idea of the mac goes against my grain: just sit back and let the computer think for you. For example I have a problem with compiling the linux kernel (2.3.6) with the e2compr patch for it so that I can do compression. I have tried something it didn't work, so I tried something else, still didn't work. Did I go crying to mommy when it didn't work? nope.
I think it just hides things and makes the problems just glazed over. I want to change anything about the hardware or the OS and if quality is lesser well than too bad. I would rather trade 10Mhz of speed for 2,100% better configurability.
The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of a million is a statistic --Joseph Stalin
I have been thinking about a thinkpad for some time now but it looks like that might change. This powerbook has everything I have always wanted in a notebook and then some. I can't wait to buy one!
Last time I looked, gravity was still on. Shares are up, sales are up, marketshare is up, cash reserve is up, recognition is up, brand awareness is up, marketing activites are up.
When they're selling everything they can build, why share info for free with Be? Want an alternative OS? Try OS X Server, or LinuxPPC, MKLinux or the MachTen virtual machine.
They are going to sell a ton of iBooks though, no question.
Umm, you're going to be waiting quite a while. There _aren't_ going to be Powerbook G4s. Just like there aren't Powerbook 604s. Too much heat, too much voltage draw.
The slimmer power book was introduced in may..
They are likly to announce something ELSE today... infact, I'm watching the keynote now..
--------------------------------
You know, I'm not just being reactionary here, and I kind of liked the iMac when it first came out, but I found that the reason all the pictures of it were taken from the side - they're hideous from the front. Those grey stripes, bleah. I have to say that personally, I would like more creative case designs, but the iBook looks even worse than the iMac - early 70s-style design, icky colors, and not that much to redeem it.
I dunno, it just seems to me that these new macs violate all known laws of tasteful design.
-lx
> You'll learn a lot about how computers ought to
> work.
No, you won't. You'll learn to form a lot of opinions about "The Way Things Ought To Be", but you won't learn a damned thing about computers.
You might as well be using a console, plugging in various cartridges: "here's Photoshop, here's SmoochyGoo, here's BaubleBlast!, here's Ye_Olde_PC_Game_Port. I don't really do _anything_ with the OS, or the API, or the shell. I just run programs, and that's the way it _ought_ to be!"
Go right ahead. And smoke some crack while you're at it, that'll fit right in with the whole "entertain-me" mentality.
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
Where I would work I would hope to not "look foolish" pulling out any color laptop. But we cannot all work in a gray office
Come on! I mean it's the second worst selling color nationwide! Why not the second best selling Grape or the nice Lime color I desire?
At least the AirPort hub has a nice color scheme. I really wish they'd use the prototype color schemes, though. They're much nicer looking for a laptop.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
From the toysRus page:
1 5800b.jpg
http://www3.toysrus.com/product_images/b5/50803
Yes this is quite old news. I happen to have bought one of these 400Mhz monsters about a month ago. The article says it has firewire support. No it has PC Card support and you can buy a firewire card. This is nothing new and to comment on the last post. OS X can not run on a powerbook so I hear. At any rate it is a solidly awesome computer. But of course since I just bought this, in the tradition of my curse, they will probably come out with a 300GHz G16 tomorrow and it will probably have 134TB of memory and a GOOGLEBYTE Drive. Things always advance so fast immediately after I buy something. *sigh*
No no no no no, a *consumer* portable would be about $599.
Mr. Jobs, et al, you do indeed have a warped sense of reality.
They've been selling these machines for a while. 400 MHz is old news for PowerBooks. The nice thing is that the CPU is not watered down as much as Pentium IIs to run cooler since they run fairly cool (for a CPU) as it is so the performance difference is better for PowerBooks vs. x86 laptops than between the desktops.
I think it also has 1 MB L2, but I could be wrong.
Ok Mr. Hacker who knows exactly where every key is. When using a Sun keyboard where is the ~, how about control and caps lock, or the "Meta" keys? It isn't your standard "101"or "104" keyboard. Sometimes legends are good.
Disclamer - Opinion of Person
They are tricky on the main page of the description. The laptop "can" have FireWire via the PC Card slots, but it doesn't have it on the machine itself. Check out the specs link for a less spin-doctored listing.
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specifications.htm
........ "The faster I go, the behinder I get" - Lewis Carroll
:Its not light(6.7 pounds)
damnit, they aren't meant to be used as frisbees, how light do you want the damn thing?
:It's not fast (300 MHz G3)
actually thats very fast. the only reason you would want anything faster would be a) playing quake 4 b) 3d modelling... Most people who buy it will most likely be browsing the web, word prossessing and crap which dosn't need anything half this fast
:Its display isn't great (800x600 max)
You don't get much better on laptops, and that's plenty big for a 12inch screen
If you want a good laptop you buy one of their big black things, if you want to surf the web and check e-mail then this is more than adequete
Does it run linux easily?
:)
-- Person who can't be bothered to read a single more document/faq/howto today
They added a kernel task that watches for pauses in typing and mousing, and manages the low power mode of the CPU on a millisecond granularity. Lots of peripherals and constant HD access will hurt performance, but "normal use" like word processing and web surfing will be awesome.
Matt Slot / Bitwise Operator / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Probably the biggest thing Steve Jobs has brought to Apple is an all-or-nothing marketing style. He takes big strides, not looking back to see whether people follow, but to see where computers *should* be going.
Dropping the floppy drive, adopting USB, the iMac design, MacOS X based on real UNIX, and now AirPort and the iBook. Whether you agree with his decision or not, you have to admit that it causes a strong reaction.
Of course many Mac enthusiasts are happy to hang on his every whim, but even those that don't still appreciate that he's done alot for the company and product line.
Personally, I think computers are reaching the point where the car did so many years ago -- they are quite functional, but people want more than a black or beige box with pretty much standard components. They want A/C, AM/FM/CD, Power Windows, and they want something that *draws* your eye.
Even if you don't like the look of the iMac or iBook, you know that you'll be seeing them all over from now on -- and you'll recognize them instantly. Consumers like the Nike swoosh, McDonalds fries, and they'll like the iBook, even if you don't.
Matt Slot / Bitwise Operator / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Q. Can I create an AirPort network in a classroom?
A. Yes. With AirPort-enabled iBook computers and an AirPort Hardware Access Point, you can create a wireless network in your classroom. You can also add more access points to provide coverage for your entire school.
Someone else was asking about getting a neiborhood T1 and sharing with these things, I'd say that's a yes.
Also, the fact that an Apple tech can remove the CD-ROM drive, and that they say there is "currently" no DVD upgrade makes me think that it might be possible, if not from Apple from a third party.
I totally agree. The exterior of the new Apple computers reflect the fact that they're only intended to be toys.
Wait for OS X? The OS that Apple bought two years ago instead of BeOS because it was "complete" and BeOS was just "beta?" Why wait? ;-)
OK, /. full throttle again:
/.ers have gotten used to the concepts of those products and will accept them after they've been reinvented.
2 years ago: Apple is dying, their marketing/machines/OS/design/whatever/fill it in yourselves sucks.
Now: Apple is greedy, their marketing/machines/OS/design/whatever/anything will do/fill it in youselves sucks.
You know, one thing prevails in all this. Although nobody seems to care about anything Apple creates, you're all talking about it. Thus, Apple matters and they inspire most of you.
So accept it, Apple is a commercial company with a profit goal, they'll never make computers or mainstream OSes for free.
But you can trust this company to create products that will go mainstream in about 2 years.
That it about the timespan
After all, that's what's Linux is all about, reinventing the wheel. Not once, but many many times.
Even back when Apple *was* sharing info and BeOS ran on most every shipping PowerMac and clone, Apple still wouldn't release the specs to their PowerBooks. Now keep on topic--this whining doesn't reflect well on the BeOS or its fans.
Just be glad that you can run BeOS on a non-Apple G3 upgrade board.
Are they being shipped yet? I don't think so. The iBook won't be sent to retailers for at least two months. PC prices drop pretty quickly, so what sounds like a fabulous deal now may not be so great in a few months. Nevertheless, I agree that it's quite nicely equipped (except for the small HD and only 32 MB RAM).
>Don't complain, women know what big hands mean.
Yeah, it means you wear big gloves. (As for that other thing, given the size of my shoes, I *wish* big feet meant that...)
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
It's not supposed to be anything more than an over-priced toy, anyway.
Yeah, yeah..we've all heard of it for years now, but nobody has ever seen a stable, marketable version of it. We used DR1 of it here and boy did it blow big time..not ready for prime time (and i won't even comment on OS-X server..ack).
Jobs is as much of a liar as Gates is..promises promises, and all we get is this fucking stupid looking kid's toy of a machine. Consumer portable my ass..this is a joke.
My chief qualification to comment on Ease of Use: I am the world's least intuitive person when it comes to computers, and regularly whine that things on-screen are either totally ambiguous, genuine non-sequiturs, or are written in a language I don't understand. (I exaggerate only slightly.)
... just want to point out that ease is relative, and if your alternative is Windows or NT, Linux might be the easier install.
At the same time, I have eventually wrestled Linux onto three different PCs, and the process has varied from gut-wrenching with old Slackware to "Whoah! That's it?" with Mandrake Linux.
Mandrake 6.0 (I have't used RedHat 6.0 but it should be about the same) autodetected my hardware, asked understandable questions, etc. My knowledge has been slowly increasing, but not as quickly as the various install tools have improved.
By contrast, when I installed Win98 on my mom's PC, it took three ridiculous days of aborted installs and crashes followed by restarts, followed by shouting and curses. So maybe a better question is whether *any* operating system runs easily on a PC.
I've not installed BeOS to comment
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
It might be only 32, but as with the iMac a lot of places that you buy them from will throw in another 32 to make it a somewhat more acceptable 64. I too don't really agree with 32 ram and a 3.2 gig hd. Apple has been to stingy with ram and HD when they need to realize that it makes a mac a lot better to have the extra ram... hell that's the same with any computer.
The reason that Linux was able to be ported to the G3s is that people reverse engeneered the specs of the motherboard. Be Inc. didnt want to do that, because they are a comercial company, and only wanted to rely on officcial specs. also, if they had simply reverse engeneered the MB, apple could change the MB design at any time, and the OS would be unable to function on that system. JLG didnt want to have this happen, so he decided to not support BeOS on the G3s
--David
BeOS user
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
> Using a Mac can clue you, as a programmer,
> into some good User Interface ideas.
Ah, right. Like the idea that using a menu should block every running task. Like the idea that moving files to and from multiple volumes should require three and four steps to accomplish. Like the idea that windows should be resizeable from exactly one corner. Like the idea that using one window from one process should require raising _EVERY_ window owned by that process. Like the idea that mouse and keyboard bindings are hardcoded values in the environment.
Excuse, but I don't need any of those clues. In fact I'm doing my best to ensure that I never go anywhere near that kind of trash.
How can I be polite about this? No offense, but some of us consider your brand of captive user interface to be just about the worst combination of attributes ever expressed on a bitmap display.
[phew]
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
> People like you, who don't care about design...
This is way too funny. I care enough about design to "optimize Perl code", but since I don't appreciate translucent orange plastic, I obviously have no taste.
That's such a brilliant coup; it's like the guy in a clown suit strutting around like a high-fashion snob, and getting away with it. I mean, these are people who would undoubtedly appreciate the "taste" and "design" of pink toenail polish with sparkles, and they're looking down their long noses at people who see beauty in good engineering and hard work, but don't care about superficiality.
Apple must truly be the poster child of this new generation of idiots.
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
> It's not light (6.7 pounds)
No, but it's got a *handle*. How heavy is a boombox, and you didn't mind lugging it about.
6 pounds is only heavy because most laptops are bulky enought that you need to use your whole hand to hold them.
Matt Slot / Bitwise Operator / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
look at the iBook pages. the dock and card cost $100
Open? Guess again. Open to what? Not hardware.
Reliable? Not if its running the outdated MacOS (and don't start with the OSX argument..it's not here yet). Can you say memory leaky with only 32MB?
Affordable? Perhaps.
There's nothing to "get" here. Either you're a Mac Bigot or you have at least one foot in the reality that everything Apple does IS NOT that great. Good yes, but not the be-all end-all of computers.
I think its cool that so many people feel strongly about the design, they either love it or hate it (I love it) but not much in between.
Companies are beginning to realize that its better to have 50% love it and 50% hate it, then to have 90% not care one way or another. This represents a great departure from one size fits all marketing. Its happening in the automobile market to. Differentiation is the name of the game...
So wait for OSX. As friendly and easy to use as a mac, and with the Option BSD Tools install, you still have your command line and unix utilities.
But I DO care a.out design. That's why I prefer the Silicon Graphics cases (except the new clam-like VisPCs).
Yeah, durable simple computers...nothing to break or malfunction...where's the appeal in that? If I can't magically be fixed by you when you break it, you can't look like a big computer wizard in front of your friends, and we wouldn't want that would we?
Name me a consumer product that DOESN'T assume you are an idiot.
Get of your high horse. The view's better from down here.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
the people who buy this computer want it to be fast, but don't need it to be. Its like buying a car that's capable of going 300mph and driving it down country roads. Let them think its as fast as they want.
Oddly, the only ones I could find with an AMD K6-III and a 14" screen were in the $1800 range, not the $1599 range apple was shooting for. But even granting you that point:
With the Rage Mobility chip? With Wireless networking being only $100 option? With the neat design (no latch, it opens like a cell phone. Not the color, if I get one I'm painting it black and maybe put a Merciful Release symbol on it....) With a cool little built-in handle? I'm sorry, say what you want about the color but the no-latch design and the handle are things I'd _love_ to see in their pro series...
Did you look at the full specs of all the laptops? To say that there are laptops out there with those screens in that price range is very misleading considering the other cool features this machine has.
---Warning: Impending Rant---
I'm getting sick and tired of the minorities in the Linux, Windows, OS/2, Amiga, Purple-Assed Baboon, And Mac comunities that do a knee-jerk response of disliking anything outside their community. It's ridiculous.
We are supposed to be intelligent, logical people the design and support (well some of us) software and hardware. Can't we look at this for what it is? Just like the iMac, this is supposed to be a laptop that your Mom will use. Not you, your Mom. Does your mom need the highest res and biggest (physically) screen? Mine doesn't. Do you reallly think, honestly and truely that Apple didn't do some market research about this? Come on, they've rested their entire bussiness future on the four product lines. Do you really think they are that dumb?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because (for example) Amiga does something doesn't mean it's bad. It may be good for that community, or for even the larger geek community or it might be bad. Before going off half-cocked and lambasting it, check your facts. Make sure you understand the market it's in, etc.
Sorry, that was my regularly scheduled rant.For the record, I don't consider myself part of any "community." I don't feel any one OS is good for everything. I've used Amigas considerably, use Windows for my job, have a Mac with Linux installed at home....
Sorry for taking up so much time,RobK
Myddrin
If you're not comfortable with the 14.1 active matrix (i am) just plug in an external monitor and go dual screen (stick all your pallets on the 14.1 and use the main screen for your PShoppiing).
Then you can be mobile, show clients onscreen comps, burn the midnight oil at the place of your choosing, etc.
If its good enough for Skywalker ILM types, then dangit, its good enough for me.
Because all the Mac faithful (the MacJihad) will snap the up because it's cool and made by Apple (the lords and saviours of the Universe).
These will sell big..yes. Snapped up by the same people that bought all 5 flavors of iMac.
Complexity for the purpose of what? I mean what problems is it that it's glazing over?
Or do you just want complexity so you can feel better having spent 2 hours fixing some problem that wouldn't have happened anyway on a "toy" OS?
If your're complaning about not being able to recompile the Mac kernel, get over it. You're just not gonna recompile a commercial OS.
I found the imacs looked nice on TV and everything, but once I saw one in real life I was less than impressed. I'll assume the ibooks look pretty much the same IRL. The only reason you guys like it so much is because you spend all your time in grey cubicles. Go visit the Big Room sometime. I wish they would make something for the non-rainbow color crowd.. like a shiny metallic case.. now THAT would be cool.
Please. you people are just afraid that something this big would burst the little bubble that you live in. The design is spectacular and if you go out in the street and take a poll, i guarantee you 90 percent of the people out there will like the design of the ibook to any other notebook computer. Just because you slashdotters are colorblind doesn't mean you hafta rip out at people who are. as an industrial designer, I am almost always excited to see what the Apple Industrial Design group comes up with next. They are among the most respected in the design industry and for good reason.
Apple does have a "netboot" feature built into iMacs that allow remote booting. I wonder if that's true of the iBook too? If so, perhaps it would be possible to boot off the wireless network. That would be so cool.
> Reliable, user-friendly tools are what computers > are SUPPOSED to be.
Like hell they are. Computers are "SUPPOSED" to perform massive logical functions in a reasonably finite period of time. Nowadays a massive portion of that logical functionality is spent actively destroying the user's experience: by creating a captive interface that restricts efficiency.
These days people _think_ they're "using a computer". In reality, they're experiencing little more than a canned, interactive slideshow. They stare stupidly at it, and because SO LITTLE effort is expected of them, they are pleased. Of COURSE they like it! Why not just put them in front of a TV and tell them they're doing "work"? Wouldn't _anybody_ like to be told such a thing?
It's all done in the name of "user-friendliness", of course, just as you've justified it. I'm just calling a spade a spade; it's none of my business how you choose to use your computer.
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
Nothing is wrong with that. There's one called the PowerBook G3. Feel free to buy one of those if you want to.
It is DESIGNED to be a kid's toy. I like toys. I like the iBook. Guess they DO have a target audience after all.
And I'll be laughing at all the ridiculous suits who are laughing at my ridiculous orange laptop. I'm sure glad I'm not them!
Nothing happened to them, except that this is not it. Don't like it? Fine. Don't buy it. I defy you to find cool curves and neutral colors in computers that AREN'T designed by Apple.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
You can see some other ones here. They're a bit more positive, and detailed.
Some of your points are well taken (modal menus are a horrible idea). Others (like resizing only from one corner) are quibbles. Note that some of us consider "your" (making a gross overgeneralization) brand of fragmented, inconsistent, willy-nilly "open" user interface to be the worst combination of attributes ever expressed on a bitmap display.
Different strokes...
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I urge everyone making disparaging comments about the iBook's power (or lack thereof) to post the vital stats of their machine, laptop or otherwise.
Many, if not most, of the "power geeks" that I know are not running bleeding edge machines. They have 300mhz Celerons, 3 GIG drives and 64 Megs of RAM. The iBook stacks up nicely to them.
Get over yourselves. This is not a "chick" machine, and it's insulting to women and Apple to imply so. I've been using computers going on 16 years now (since I was 8) and for the first time I'm considering a Mac. Guess which one? iBook: It's cheap, looks like it has ample power for a notebook, and it isn't a black brick.
--
Or something around there. Like, 2 months ago. I mean, come on guys.
rooooar
Then you don't have to look down and read the tiny letters on the keys.
Okay, so if AirPort internet connection works a lot like a cordless phone, does that mean my neighbors can accidentally click on to my frequency? I'm always picking up the phone only to be totally confused by hearing the lady upstairs gabbing about her day.
If this thing supports multiple ocmputers and works up to 150 feet away, that means given my tiny apartment, can my neighbors with the right laptop hop on to my internet connection?
-- First post (by a female living in a state that begins with M and does not end in a vowel with a birthday that falls
Its got great wireless capability, 10/100T, and 56Kbps, and a CD-ROM.
I can live without the 1.44Mb floppy.
A quick look on www.pricewatch.com or similar site will show you that 14" pc laptops are about the same price (with amd processors).
> Note that some of us consider "your" (making a gross
> overgeneralization) brand of fragmented, inconsistent, willy-nilly "open" user interface to be the
> worst combination of attributes ever expressed on a bitmap display.
Of course you do. You measure everything by an opposite standard: you value consistency over correctness, and you value simplicity over efficiency.
Quite literally, you prefer what is "easy" (consistently simple) over what is "effective" (efficient and correct).
Weaved in, throughout, this philosophy contains self-aggrandizing notions like superior aesthetics, etc., and some other laughable ideas, but the main current is that no compromise is too severe, as long as it is made in the name of those two sacred attributes: simplicity and consistency.
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
And the page was JUST updated today.
Anyone know if these AirPort cards will be able to communicate with each other, in an "ad hoc" fashion?
:)
I've used the Baystack 2mbit/sec cards in the past, and this technology is very nice for boring classes
The new iBook looks like those childrens toys you see at the store that you can type your name in and it makes sounds. Even though it may be very powerful, the iBook is something I wouldn't want to take to a job.
--
Scott Miga
hey, read the announcement again - THIS IS A CONSUMER MACHINE. i'll bet your crappy CTX won't plug into an LCD projector either. 99.99% of consumers will never even think of this capability, and they shouldn't have to pay for still more useless features, that's the whole point. i think they've done a really good job of making a somewhat stripped-down notebook that's still very usable. i'd like to see it close to the $1200-1300 originally rumored, but it's not bad.
if you need to produce presentations, shell out (and write off) the $2.5k and get the professional version - that's what it's for. When i can scrape up $1500 for a notebook, chances are i'll get a used G3pro book rather than the ibook just because i'll want the expandibility and bigger screen, but it's a choice...
sheesh, if only half the people here would READ the stories before posting...
Why is consistency opposed to correctness? Why is simplicity at the cost of efficiency? I do not understand why you think these things are mutually exclusive. There are lots of different ways to make a user interface, but one that ignores the steepness of its learning curve in favor of geek-appeal is doomed to niche success.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
30% more expensive than anything on the market? Have you checked Toshiba's prices for a computer that matches the 400's features? Also, it's not $4100, it's $3500; or $2500 for the 333.
rooooar
the deal with the iMac keyboard is that Apple designed them with kids foremost in mind, since they knew they'd sell a gazillion of them to schools. They figured they'd struck a proper balance, I guess, between adult and child size. I had to get an Optek ergonomic keyboard to replace my iMac keyboard. I recommend it.
OK, the thing about that 160MB RAM expansion is that the RAM slot is a 1.25" long slot. Who cares? Well, current regular 128MB and 256MB modules are 2 inches long. There are also smaller 1.5" 'low profile' modules that fit in the 1.5" slot on the old PowerBook G3s and iMacs. (They have a 2" slot and a 1.5" inch slot for space reasons.) BUT, those 'low profile' modules are about twice as much as a 2" module, because of the increased density. BTW, I am not trying to be comfusing, it is a confusing subject. SO, the 128MB module needed for 160MB of RAM in an iBook would cost about $400, give or take. Am I confusing enough yet?
The one and (thankfully) only,
LafinJack
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
That's a valid opinion. I like to tinker with my system as well, that's why I have NetBSD running on my second box, of course when I need to get some work done, I use MacOS 8.6.
cheers,
Matthew Reilly
They're black.
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
With Active Matrix screens? With 10/100 built in ethernet and 56k modem? With built in wireless network capability? With a 3.2 gig HD? With USB support? With a 4 MB ATI Rage video card? With a kick ass design? With a 6 hour battery life? With a tiny power converter which coils up the cord for storage? With a built in cdrom? With a 6 lb weight? With an equally fast processor (not that this is possible, a G3 300 laptop will toast any pc laptop chip)?
Asside from the faster chip which can't happen, show me a laptop with a 14" screen about the same price.
I know I am rising to the bait, but it is disheartening to see these gender stereotypes being perpetuated ... I am all for computers being attractive to females, but at the expensive of speed and power? For use as a FASHION ACCESSORY? So, what, we should have REAL, POWERFUL computers for boys and FASHION TOYS for girls?
...
...
...)
If someone offered me the choice between the iBook and a PowerBook, there is no contest - I want the power, not the pretty case. Luckily, I have learned that although I am female, I still have the right to use technology in the same ways as the guys
No point getting too deep into the whole females-and-technology stuff here, but I can't just let this go by
(BTW, in my office, the guys were as impressed by the iBook as the women
YS
"Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
actually a friend of mine installed BeOS on his G3 a couple of weeks ago. Works fine no problems at all. So all you stop your winning and actually try things instead of letting others try it you might be suprised what you find out, before you go claiming shit that isn't true.
Whoa - serious work. Fear of embarrassment.
Sounds pretty "man in the grey suit" there man.
Very establishment. You probably don't understand the target demographic's musical choices either.
Where the fsck did multicolored geeks go?
Must have traded in their hawaiian shirts in order to conform. Wear and compute with black, grey and beige. Must have matching socks. Own exciting fish like goldfish or guppies ("bloop, bloop!").
Perhaps its for those who don't want to fade into the background...
I held one for a little bit- it seemed relatively strong. The rubberized bits around the edges will definitely help with the overall wear and tear and may cushion the blow if it lands on its end. It seemed heavy enough that it could take some abuse, and the lack of a latch means one less thing to break, although I don't know how long the clamshell hatch will last necessarily. I guess I'm skeptical of any laptop's proclaimed durability, but this one did seem to be a little heavier and better protected than most- weight saving was obviously not the primary concern!
You know, I wanted to make the first post to Slashdot from an iBook, but my boss held on to the damn thing so long I had to pass it along before I could load anything on the web browser.
What exactly do you do with your computer?
Don't kid yourself. It's MacOS so it's gonna break and malfunction all kinds. What are you going to do when it comes time to upgrade your new iBook? These computers are not made to be hardware configurable. Some team of guys at apple got together and decided what would go into this system. You have little or no control over it. I think this system is great for people that need to use a computer with little or no knowledge but I'm not that person. I like to build my computers from the ground up and compile my kernel to the exact specifications that I like. I install the software that I want to use and I love every second of it. I'm not saying that the iMac and iBook don't have their places I'm just saying they are not for me. It's not about showing off to my friends. It about being in control of the one item that occupies more of my time than anything else. If you think I'm on a high horse let me set you straight. The approach I take is hard. I spend many frustrated hours trying to figure out simple things that Mac's do automatically. But when I'm done I am happy because I have learned how the computer actually works. And I have a system that is tailored to exactly to suit my needs. So please spare me your misguided accusations until you can grow up and make informed ones.
Oh, and as for a product that doesn't assume you're an idiot: How 'bout Linux.
My sig has a broken link in it.
A G3300 is fast... PII mobile chips are slow as hell, the G3's are only slightly slower than the Desktop thaks to much more efficient operation.
I develop. Perl, C, bash, OpenGL, and XML.
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
I heard it needs all kinds of enablers even to run the full mac os 8.6. Since linux doesn't have any kind of power saving stuff (afaik), I would imagine it would really suck having to recharge every hour or whatever.
rooooar
They're not necessarily in conflict. However, when they are, your UI always sacrifices correctness for consistency and efficiency for simplicity.
As for niche success, what do I care? Isn't the quality of an interface of primary import? That's what you Mac people were telling us throughout all of Apple's lean years... now that things look better, you can afford the luxury of honesty?
Well, I guess I was wrong; you'll sacrifice consistency for _some_ things, I suppose.
MJP
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
I've got a MacOS system on my desk that hasn't been rebooted since I added a hard drive four months ago. Break? Not frequently.
What do you need to upgrade exactly? It has everything I'm likely to need. What, you think that your Dell laptop is upgradeable? To what?
Little or no control over the design process. OK, how many companies' laptop design processes have you had control over?
IF YOU LIKE TO BUILD COMPUTERS FROM THE GROUND UP YOU CANNOT HAVE A LAPTOP. Duh.
It's NOT about showing off to my friends. It's about having the right tool at the right price. If the iBook is the right tool, buy it. (I will!) If it's not, don't.
Again, if you like frustration and complexity because it makes you feel like a computer badass, fine. Don't buy a Mac.
Let me know when Linux is a consumer product. It's getting there, but my grandma can't use it yet, so it is not a consumer product.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I'm calling bullshit on this one.
You're telling me that you got a machine with a 3.2G hard drive, 10/100Base-T Ethernet, 56K Modem, 4MB of VRAM with an ATI Rage Mobility video card, 24-bit color at 800x600, USB, and a hard-to-damage case for $1300? In 1997? I'm not going to mention the support for wireless networking (the antenna is built into the iBook, just the card is missing) or that a 300MHz G3 is leagues faster than anything released in a laptop in 1997.
It's OK to hate Macs, it's OK to hate Apple; everyone has their delusions. But really, don't make stuff up.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
For the Porsche owners' the Bronze G3 notebooks got the Black Curves with light-up logo, built-in SCSI, Firewire, 2 Expansion Card Slots, Wireless IrDa, Dual hot-swapable CD-Battery-ZIP expansion bays, 10/100base-T ethernet, etc.
For the students the iBook is a tasty, low-fat wireless internet device that has got a good price ($1599), runs 'yer browser, email, Microsoft Office (yech!), plays Quicktime4 streaming media and built-in 24x CD-ROM and 10/100base-T ethernet. plus, you can put linux onto it. plug the USB port into a hub, and you've got scanners, ZIP drives, digital cameras, CD-Writer going. all in a tasty little package.
the airport @ $100 + $300 for a base is really cool.
i think its going to be a hit!
I love the "blazingly fast 300MHz PowerPC G3 processor--great for...sending and receiving email".
:)
I didn't know email was so CPU-intensive. Maybe it's just a crappy TCP/IP stack
-- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
This is not for you, mr professional, this is designed solely for the school market. I'll post the ibook faq now and you can check out all the features and see for yourself that this is, in fact, the perfect school computer. Wireless networking, durable (ie, for backpack carrying), no removable stuff to get stolen... look for the post towards the bottom.
rooooar
I think the idea of a cheap, notebook is a great Idea, I mean, isn't that what the iBook is supposed to be...??? But why can't they have a normal black design as at least an option...? I looked at the first picture of it, and nearly puked... I really hate it... It's ugly, and it looks like a kids toy. Besides, how many of you wouldn't feel embarassed to bring this thing to a business meeting...? I would love to have one if it wasn't for the awefull colour design.
Isn't that what they said about SCSI when the Mac Plus had it way-back-when?
-awc
You're data is protected by 40-bit encryption.
This qoute was found on one of Apple's FAQ regarding the AirPort system.
"Q. What kind of security does AirPort
provide?
A. AirPort offers password access control
and encryption to deliver security equivalent
to that of a physical network cable. Users
are required to enter a password to log on to
the AirPort network--and, optionally, an
additional password for access to any other
computer on the network. When
transmitting information, AirPort uses 40-bit
encryption to scramble data, rendering it
useless to eavesdroppers."
The bold emphasis is mine.
Amen brother! It's not like this is replacing the powerbooks, the iBook and the PowerBook are for two seperate markets. Most of the people here are in the PowerBook market. Most of the people here also don't realize not everyone wants what they do. Apple has a great knack for knowing what different markets want. I guarantee you when they were doing market research, the number one request they got was "I want a laptop version of the iMac". Well, here it is, and the public will love it.
Apple uses a smoke and purple color for its prototypes. Why they dont actually *ship* in these colors is beyond me.
"Even Prophets don't know everything"
From the ibook specs page on the apple website:
"Interfaces
Connectivity
--One 12-Mbps Universal Serial Bus (USB) port for USB devices such as printers, storage devices, keyboard, mouse, USB hubs, and data capture probes"
What the hell do they mean by data capture probes?
--
the spoony fork
Speak truth to power.
I'm replying to myself to cover all the other replies to me.
OK some people still use floppies. They are the
easiest to transfer small data between 2 computers.
ESP when you are say a consultant at a client.
They may not let you hook into their network,
but they may want your docs. And buying an
external floppy for a notebook kinda goes against,
the idea of this - lightweight, compact, and easy.
I still see this as a flaw. Maybe gimme the choice
(like some PC laptops do) of a CD or floppy drive.
I dunno, I don't like it. Then again I didn't like the
iWhac either.
-cpd
Instead of throwing around accusations of dishonesty, how about if you define your terms. What is correct UI? What is efficient UI? Why can't you (through good engineering) have all of these virtues?
The purpose of a user interface is to facilitate a human working with the computer, right? Therefore, interfaces that facilitate (that means make easy) working with the computer are better at their primary function. Interfaces that obfuscate (by poor feedback, poor instruction, and poor consistency) are less good interfaces.
Quality of user interface is the ONLY THING that Apple does right. Until very recently, the company has been run by bumbling morons, making asinine decisions, killing great products, having shitty quality control....the list goes on. The ONLY THING this company has is a KILLER user interface. That's the ONLY way the company has stayed afloat.
Read the articles I referenced earlier. It's the best breakdown on how to make a good user interface I've ever found. If you have better articles, I'd love to read them. UI design is basically what I want to do when I grow up, and I'm trying to find the best and make it better. Right now, my opinion is that though it is far from perfect, MacOS is head and shoulders above any other computer UI.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I guess, for Apple, the price isn't THAT bad... But, maybe I am just a little to "real-estate" hungry to think that 12.1" and 800x600 resolution is enough to use now days. Well, maybe to use, but buying new, I would want more....
Don't get me wrong, most Slashdotters are, including me. Being a geek isn't a bad thing. But most people are not geeks. And most non-geeks are happy to have a "toy" OS that gets the job done. They can do word processing, graphics, web browsing, email, and games, and that's about it. But that's all they are interested in doing. The computer is a tool. It's a very useful tool, but it's still just a tool.
Even those of us who do like to tinker with out systems from time to time still want to be able to hide that complexity when they need to get other work done. When I am writing a paper, checking my email, or playing Starcraft, my "toy" Mac OS works just fine. The interface is much nicer, it's much simpler to set up and use, and it's generally more productive. When I want to tinker, I have an old Mac on which I install LinuxPPC, and then I can tinker to my heart's content.
There's no reason non-geeks should learn to use vi, know a programming language, reformat a hard drive, or edit text-based configuration files. These tasks are not the least bit relevant to their lives, and are simply extra work. An oversimplified interface and glazing over of problems is a good thing for 90% of what people do with computers. If their computer crashes, it doesn't matter to them why it crashed. There's no point in giving them the gruesome details of what failed where and how. They'll just reboot and try again. If it continues failing, they switch apps and/or upgrade. They might run disk doctor occasionally, or ask a more knowledgable friend for help. But for the most part they just want the OS to do as it's told, even if they aren't using it as intended.
A good analogy is a car. For most of us, it's much nicer to have a simple dashboard that gives us a sumarry of what our car is doing than a window that let's us look and the engine and take measurements manually. The mechanically inclined might like rebuilding their engines, but for the rest of us, we are happy to think of our cars as a black box that needs oil changes, fillups, and the rest gets taken care of by the mechanic. Most peoples' lives do not revolve around their computers, any more than around their cars.
I believe you have just illustrated admirably the meaning of "questioned".
(sig is probably satiric swipe at someone else's "Unquestioned Lord and Master..." sig.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I don't know if anyone else picked up and posted on this, but at http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html it states the iBook has "Built-in 2D/3D graphics acceleration through an integrated ATI RAGE Moblilty graphics controller with 2X AGP". This is fairly big news for the future of gaming on Macintosh hardware, because it will most likely be followed with a transition to the adoption of AGP in the new Sawtooth-chipset based models, set to debut in the fall according to rumour. This will finally bring the MacOS up to speed with Wintel in 3D gaming, at least in one department (the current Mac ATI offerings for the advanced PCI slot just don't cut it anymore, with the TNT 2 and whatnot).
Boo!
It runs on a PPC, so it should be pretty easy to get it to work with linux, once troubles with the little mouse pad and display are taken care of. I wouldn't mind using GNOME on this thing!
I was using an iMac keyboard a week ago or so, and I was impressed how smooth it was. I have to say that I prefer it as it takes less pressure to type than these "proper" keyboards. (I am using a "proper" keyboard, and I have had to backspace about 8 times this paragraph anyway ;) On the iMac keyboard, I found that I could type about 30% faster as it took less effort. I guess it is good for some, bad for others.
The problem that I have with the iMac keyboard is the fact that they don't have a "full" keyboard. I don't have a problem with the size of the keys personally, but the lack of a forward delete key is annoying.
colin
Apologies to the great women who read slashdot, but they are in the minority here. What Apple has discovered, and the rest of the computer industry has yet to find out, is the other half of the population on the planet--what all those testosterone induced, 3lite geeks out there don't seem to fathom, is that most people don't need 550+Mhz, 128Meg laptops; they want to get on AOL, send email to their friends, do some online shopping, and do it with a device that, sorry to say, is a fashion accessory of sorts. The iBook does that and more, and at a reasonable price to boot. If there is one downside, they could have made it a tad lighter, but maybe next time around. If you want speed, get the black prophylactic Powerbook. It's a clear (gender based) distinction, and is a piece of brilliant marketing. Just watch in the coming months when Wintel machines start adopting (as they always inevitably seem to) the best features from this laptop. Not that men won't also buy them, but perhaps for the first time, a computer company is looking explicitly at a female market which has been largely untapped. If you don't believe me, check out how many women are driving around in those new Volkswagen Beetles these days.
yes, since apparently each hub has a specific name (Steve typed in something like Paul.apple.something, almost sounded IP ish) you should be able to x amount in each room.
neato, huh?
go apple.
In
What they say:
Q.Why are there no latches or buttons to close iBook?
A. iBook uses a new $E3latchless$E4 design developed by Apple. This mechanism allows iBook to be opened and remainopen, or be closed and remain closed, without the need for cumber-some latches or buttons that may break over time.
What they mean:
What do you expectfrom the company that brought you disk drives with no eject buttons.
What they say:
6.6 pounds, 1.8 inches thick.
What they mean:
So its bulky. But it looks cute.
What they say:
Q. Does iBook have a PCMCIA slot?
A. iBook does not have any PCMCIA expansion slots. It is a fully featured system that comes standard with10/100BASE-T Ethernet capability and a 56-kilobit-per-second V.90 modem*$F7 the two most common uses forPCMCIA slots in notebook computers. In addition, iBook has a dedicated internal expansion slot for a wirelesscommunications module. And it has ample external expansion capability through the high-speed USB port, which lets you connect up to 127 USB devices.
What they mean:
We know what you need!! Expansion - do it our way and pay 10 times the street price for standard peripherals.
What they say:
Q. Does iBook have a fan?
A. No. It does not have a built-in fan for cooling purposes. iBook does not create significant heat; thus it doesn$E2trequire a fan while in operation. The little heat that is generated dissipates quite readily.
What they mean:
Just because we made a notebook that caught on fire doesn't mean you should worry.
What they say:
Q. Does the new PowerBook G3 use the same kind of memory?
A. No. The new PowerBook G3 has two SO-DIMM slots. The first slot accepts up to 2-inch 144- pin SO-DIMMs. The second slot accepts up to 1.5-inch, 144-pin SO-DIMMs. The PowerBook G3 SO-DIMMs must be 3.3-volt, unbuffered,
64-bit, 144-pin SO-DIMMs.
What they mean:
What? you want us to lose the chance of fleecing you for more money by reusing old parts? Haven't you bought from Apple before?
What they say?
Q. What video controller is used in iBook?
A. iBook uses the ATI RAGE Mobility video controller for 2D and 3D graphics acceleration. The ATI RAGE Mobility comes standard with 4 megabytes of SGRAM video memory.
What they mean:
Do you really expect us to use anything but the lowest end graphics card around? What us give fast graphics?
What they say:
Q. What resolution can you get on the iBook screen?
A. The iBook standard resolution is 24-bit color$F7millions of colors$F7at 800 by 600 pixels. You can also scale down to view millions of colors at 640 by 480 pixels.
What they mean:
You think we're going to give you resolutions that can compete with our overpriced boxes for designers?
What they say:
Q. Can you connect an external display to iBook?
A. No. iBook does not support video output or mirroring to an external display. The computer$E2s video architecture is designed to provide the best personal user experience. Thus, it uses the highest-quality 12.1-inch TFT screen for easy viewing and clarity. In addition, iBook has out-standing graphics. The ATI RAGE Mobility graphics controller provides at least two to three times the performance of like notebooks, and with 4 megabytes of SGRAM video memory, it has twice the video RAM of most competitive notebooks.
What they mean:
See above points....you want to replace your desktop machine...are you crazy?
What they say?
Q. Does iBook support IrDA (infrared communications) capability?
A. No. iBook does not support IrDA capability. Keyboard
What they mean:
What do you need Irda for anyway? Wireless printing, Palm Pilot syncing, GSM phones..what do you need all that crap for anyway?
Lets see what Amiga can do....
The ThinkPad i Series is neither one of the best notebooks you can buy nor $1,000 more than an iBook. The i Series is the consumer-grade ThinkPad; they're banged out by twelve year olds on a dirt floor in Korea (okay, I exaggerate) and they have a number of reliability problems -- but they're cheap, from $1700-$2400 or so. The ThinkPad 600 series are quality notebooks in the $2500-$4000 range, and the ThinkPad 770 series are lust-inducing but can run as high as $8000.
[NT] meaning there is no text beyond that in the subject.
Actually, for a while now you can't really boot a Mac off a floppy: the Finder and the System File (the least you need for booting) won't fit on a floppy (actually not even just one will). But they boot quite nicely off the CD....
The iBook is not a crappy PC, it's a decent (if not astounding) Mac. The cheapest Macs aren't as cheap as the cheapest PCs, but that's because they don't dip nearly as low in the quality department.
A $1200 iMac compares nicely with a $1200 Brio; a $1600 iBook compares nicely with a $1600 Inspirion; a $4000 Lombard compares nicely with a $4000 ThinkPad 770. And if you're into buying $700 Presarios, that's your problem -- but they are crap, in quality, features and performance. Apple doesn't sell crap, thus no $700 boxen.
and you know, if i was an apple stockholder i wouldnt be that unhappy - jobs with a crappy os is a better bet than gasbag with a butter os. basically apple is in a branding battle now and jobs is a MASTER at brand.
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
The Lombard series PowerBooks aren't new (being introduced in May at WWDC), but they are pretty hard to come by... so maybe they're, in the words of used car dealers, "new to you!"
The P1 portable is the one that's supposed to be announced today isn't on the Apple site yet, and the Apple Store is offline while they load the pages for it and any other new goodies today.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Don't get me wrong, I think software should be simple and easy to use. I just don't think it should be achieved by welding the box shut. Instead, it should be simple, consistent, and logical at every level, and the beautiful and intuitive interface the naive user sees should reflect the beautiful intuitive interfaces the programmers hack on.
fish and pipes
from carrying around a sissy girl's purse
The $50 million in Newton technology is supposed to show up in the Apple/Palm device. Article on O'Grady's Powerpage.
>No, it would be effective for them to use. Isn't that the point?
you have a point? Oh well that just throws my theory about this conversation all to hell. Thanks a lot.
The specs look ok - if that's what you're looking for. But you get poor choice with apple. Yes 2.6 kg is ok for a laptop with a built-in CD and 14" screen. But what if I don't want that? What if I want no cdrom, a smaller screen in exchange for say 1.3 kg weight (in other words half the weight). With a PC I get the choice.
Ahh, my bad. The article got me a bit mixed up.
--
Scott Miga
all but bash is on the mac, and even that is coming soon...but when you have applescript...who wants bash?
rashad
Dropped the ball on this one guys?
Also, as I write this Steve Jobs is giving a keynote at Macworld Expo in New York. Maybe he will actually release something new there...perhaps the "consumer portable"...the iMac of laptops. Now maybe you'll have something new to report. (http://www.apple.com/quicktime /showcase/live/mwny99/)
On the subject of the 'new' machine: I want one.
umm... I'm sorry, but if you live in an industrialized nation and don't know what a jack is, you are phenomenally ignorant.
Obviously, they want to make money. So they released a cheaper laptop and made it look cool.
Great. What're you complaining about?
A no-name-moose.
Well, I work with computers every day, at school, work and home, and I can say that floppies are one of the worst methods of transferring data between computers next to, say, ripping a hard drive out of one and putting it in another (which isn't that bad, depending on how many screws your computers have, but that's another poll subject from months back...). The thing about floppies and PCs is that, unfortunately, floppies are part of the shoddy foundation of PCs. Under Windows at least, floppies are the only removeable media that will emergency boot your computer. Any Mac with a SCSI port (back to the Pluses) and a CD drive can boot off of a system CD, a Norton DD CD, etc. You can on the PC, but it is extremely hard and you still need a floppy to do it. I don't know about Linux, but I would venture to guess that it is the same deal.
And just so you know, Apple and Co. brought in the 3.5" 400kb floppy drive from I think Sony, replacing the old, slow(er) 100kb or so 5.25" floppies, which were really floppy. I guess it wouldn't do to call the new ones 'hardies', would it now? ")
So down with floppys and viva Orbs! (If you can find one ")
And finally, I'm sorry I couldn't come up with a insulting name for floppies, but a floppy is insulting in itself, eh?
The one and (thankfully) only,
LafinJack
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
It seems to me that the concept behind the Mac is about unification between the hardware and software. A Mac without the MacOS seems half a computer. Why would you want to do that? Just to be the geek that did?
It seems to me that FireWire is not buit-in, but must be separately purchased as a PC Card... this is to me the biggest fault of Apple feature-wise, that it is dumping SCSI from iMacs and PowerBooks without replacing it with FireWire.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
If they were ages 25-45, they weren't girls. I'm neither a girl nor a boy nor a anteater and I think they look pretty cool.
Jason Dufair
"Those who know don't have the words to tell
Jason Dufair
"Those who know don't have the words to tell
and the ones with the words don't know too w
After reading couple of posts re: iBooks are chick magnets, fruity things sell, etc. I conducted a little experiment: I pointed the girls (ages 25-45) in our office to the Apple web site and observed their reaction.
And you know what?
They absolutely love it!
Sample comments:
- "This is so awesomely beautiful!" (looking at the orange one) (?!)
- "Only $1600?" (?!!)
- "You mean I can go on AOL with no cables?" (AirPort comment)
- "When can I get one?"
To be fair, I also showed them the PB G3 "Lombard" and a couple of better looking
PC laptops (Sony Vaio, Sharp Actius, Toshiba Portege), only to get lukewarm responses...
Well, I guess you guys are right - the power of marketing is amazing.
he really needs to ask consumers what they want. Selling crippled machines with little or no chance of upgradability is one track; the rest of the world is headed along a different one.
OK, correct me If i'm wrong, but wasn't that one of the reasons that everyone said the iMac wasn't going to sell? (Including myself, I will admit...)
People who're bitching about lack of this and that and the other thing need to remember a couple of things:
1) No Firewire: So far Firewire is only in use for high end stuff. For everything else you've got USB and (I assume) IDE. Firewire is a sweet technology, but most consumers don't need stupidly fast Hard Discs, RAID arrays, nor High-End digital cameras.
2) 12.1 inch display: Yeah, I admit I'd like more screen space, but that would jack up the $$. You still get a decent quality screen though.
3) Colours/looks: Guess what, People have different tastes. Just because you don't happen to like how it looks, or you think a particular colour is ugly, dosen't mean everyone else in the world does. Ever looked in a women/teen magazine? Some of the stuff in there is absolutely hideous (IMHO), yet it sells.
4) Upgradeability: People seem to keep losing sight of the fact that this is a consumer portable. Most of the people who're going to buy this don't want to have to upgrade it. I know many people who're still hammering away on their old Classics,SE/30's,[34]86's. Just for the simple fact that it does everything they need it to. In a couple of years when they finally have to do something more, they'll go out an buy another computer, which they'll use for another 8 years. They don't really care (or even know) whether their machine has the latest video card, or has more than X amount of RAM, or supports {insert latest gizmo, gadget or doohicky here}.
To be honest, this consumer portable is a very well, and nice, but what caught my eye and sent my technosterone flowing was the AirPort networking. This was a complete surprise to me, and I've been keeping an eye on things. When they get the wrinkles sorted out of it, this will probably be the most important new Tech to come out of this MacWorld. I know that wireless networks are nothing new, I've been hearing about them since the first PowerBooks came out (remember the 100, 140 and 170?). However, AFAIK this is the first time a computer manufacturer has specifically included support for them (yeah, I know it's $100 for a card, and ~$300 for the hub, so what? $500 for a wireless network? That ain't that bad. Especially since the price is only going to come down. Since it's based on an IE^3 standard, it shouldn't be that hard for 3rd party products to be developed. (If Apple makes it hard, they're only shooting themselves in the foot)
All in all Apple's lined up a pretty spiffy Quartet of products. Lets just hope they can keep it up.
Anyways, I'd better get back to work....
CaveMan
Consumer machine. Simple, inexpensive, powerful. iBook. It's not for you. It's not for your business. You want to plug in LCD, swap expansion bay devices? Get a PowerBook. This thing is for Average Joe to buy their son for college.
And you're not going to find a PC with these features for near the price. The only thing it's really missing is some extra ram, which is cheap these days.
They were refering to the PowerBook being a 14.1 inch screen, not the iBook.
--
InstantCool
They have sold just over one million iMacs.
Boo!
*install*
*boot*
*choose Linux from graphical BootX utility*
*linux*
What's not to like? Linux on Mac hardware is delightful, and what with the old A/UX and the new OSX, MacOS and its utilities intentionally coexist with Unix. There are utilities to read back and forth between the OSes (always a good rule of thumb to read foreign, write natively) and lots of MacOS application support for Unix file operations. MacGzip, tar, bzip, ability to easily save text files with the correct line endings, to make all the xpms you'd like, plus MacOS is at least as good as Windows for those wizzy digital audio applications or nonlinear video that Windows people hassle you about not having, if not better at it. What's not to like? Any linux problem is easy if you can boot into MacOS and get help on newsgroups using MT-Newswatcher (open source software), browse the web using iCab (no more Netscape, death to IE), and continue to be connected in general. Linux on a Mac _is_ easy.
This PowerBook DOES have SCSI. Why don't you go over and actually look at the specs for this machine before you cmplain about them.
Or, it might be that there are a whole buinch of people out there with a little bit of tase.
The one and (thankfully) only,
LafinJack
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
All laptops look like toilet seats. This one just looks like a REALLY NICE toilet seat. If you want to take a shit on a grey square thing, be my guest. In the mean time I'll be crapping on a form fitting, multi-colored, slippery piece of industrial design -- and loving every minute of it!
The emperor is wearing clothes, they're just translucent.
Also, don't confuse insanity with stupidity.
OK> boot air -s
Cool! I hope I can boot off this airport. Things like this should make troubleshooting/installing new macs so much easier.
_damnit_
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
If apple is using the same color case system that they use in the PowerMac G3, or the iMac, one can change the color easily, if you can get the case off.
The case is actually transparent (so ive heard) with a vinyl type tape on the inside, so they can change colors (ie they make transparent cases and slap the tape on it) without making new cases.
Someone took off the case, removed the tape, and spraypainted the white parts in black, it looks really cool, ill post the url as soon as i find it.
-pfhor
does anyone know where i can grab the qt4 mov of job's keynote this morning? i missed it and want to download it so i can view it once i get home... help is much appreciated
I agree that Be did take money from the Wintel Cartel, but think about this: Be has been encouraging everyone who is upset about the lack of G3 support to email Apple and ask nicely for a release of the specifications. If what you say is true, wouldn't Apple start mailing back messages like "We'd love to give out the specs, but Be won't accept them"? I can't see why Apple won't let the specs go. People still will be buying their hardware.
Wah!
Isn't the whole wave of Linux trends toward making installation simpler and faster? We've got Linux installation progs. that boot you into X before you even touch the kernel, and walk you through holding your hand.
I do commend you, however, on pointing out that for you its understanding the way the computer works that makes you want to do things the hard way. It is for this reason that I run MacOS and Linux/Debian i386 at home. Sometimes a little elbow grease is soothing. =)
Cheers
Goldblum: "You hear about this new Internet thing? Hey, what's this? You want to send me an E Mail? Boy oh boy, doesn't it sound nifty but it might be kinda hard, right? But at Apple, they realize that the average consumer has the IQ of Raisinets®. So they've made it real easy. Now getting on the Internet is as easy as taking a shit."
Title: Sure, it's bulky, overpriced, has a small screen, and looks like a toilet seat, but it says it's easy to use on TV so it must be true.
Small Print: Not intended for people that can count to 30.
With its 800x600 display and 32MB base RAM and no DVD-ROM, the iBook isn't suitable for corporate use. Duh.
It's their consumer laptop. In fact, it's arguably the first real strictly-for-consumer laptop ever. Yeah, most laptop vendors have a value product line, but they're just heavy models with small screens with nothing changed to target the young non-techie student or the home user who wants a laptop instead of a desktop to browse the web, do some writing, and send e-mail.
Hey, I'm a geek, so I don't really want one. I have big screen and disk requirements, ad I need a 2- or 3-button pointing device. But most people don't, and these sure are cute, maybe even cuter than an iMac. And they've got a handle and the wireless networking card, so they're easy to carry around without the fuss of a laptop bag. They're gonna sell zillions of 'em if they can ramp up production. And the New Apple seems to be able to do that.
According to someone at MacWorld, an Apple rep says the easy-to-grip plastics being used in the iBook look best in those colors. Other colors may be introduced later. (Note: this is info from Usenet, I'm sure everyone knows what that means.)
Also, maybe it's just me, but I find that tangerine works with the iBook. I don't like the tangerine iMacs, but I like the tangerine iBook more than the blueberry, and blueberry is my favorite iMac color.
This space unintentionally left unblank.
I'm a professional web developer. If I were to pull that out at a meeting, jaws would drop, and people would have more confidence that I knew what I was talking about. Get a clue.
Well I suppose for the first time in a long time, apple have mis-designed something...
It started with the iMacs and now that I've seen them in the shop, I know they did the same on the new powerbooks...
The skinny white on black letters and the skinny white on translucent brown lettere of the new keyboards SUCK!
They are hard to make out and thus typing becomes a _chore_
hopefully they'll rethink this error soon.
avi
bercovic@swi.psy.uva.nl
My roommate got a b/w g3 300 a couple months ago, and it was a real pain in the ass with the 64 megs it came with. It's up to 196 now. Much better.
Is going to be finding these things.
It's going to be impossible for a month or more after release.
I know my sister wants one, Now I'm wanting one. If for nothing more than the wireless aspect. It's neater than my current 100' cat 5 setup.
20% thinner and 30% more expensive than anything else on the market. I would never pay $4100 for a laptop, especially not a Mac laptop.
And guess what? Nobody still cares about firewire.
I really like Apple's stuff but I have to agree that 32MB of RAM isn't enough. It's very chintzy of Apple. I think that all computers this day and age should ship with 64MB minimum. Even "toys" like the iBook.
Actually, this makes sense. If you're a geek but want an Apple laptop, you'd be wanting a Powerbook, not an iMac-ized consumerbook. The Powerbooks are gray, and a heck of a lot more powerful than the orange and blue thingies :) :)
They are also more expensive by a substantial margin- if you're an alpha geek, you can buy what you like anyway
Who _cares_ about Powerbook G3s? I've been holding for months already until the _G4s_ come out..
Pleasen don't insult college students' intellegent!! This thing is not good! I'm typing this from a Libretto 110 (233, 32m, $1134 2 pounds 4 hours) I chanllenge you find anything in the iBook that is superior to the L110 besides the crappy keybroad. All the similar mini-notebook class Sony stuff, IBM stuff have better keybroads and weight 3 pounds. Why would anyone in their right mind will pay 1500 for a 5 pound notebook? As of my writing, there's a similar subnotebook coming out from a Taiwan company (Palmax PD1000 everything's similar to the libretto except the 166 CPU, and the replicator comes with Palmax (no extra charge) includs cd-rom --Libretto has external flappy drive but not the cd-rom.) And it's rumor to be sold at Costco at 888! I say this just to show you even subnotebooks are dropping price.
:)
Believe me, there are not as much morons in the college as the iMac demographic. It only takes you 2 days behides the cash machine earnning 7 bucks an hours to figure out you can save a lot of dollars with a lighter notebook.
Last night 12:20, I was offline reading in the subway because the Libretto is small enough that I can read it INSIDE the bookbag. Yeah, try that with your orange iBook in the new york subway.
CY
You'll definitely want Kaleidoscope (I'd recommend the Obsidian scheme), and I'd suggest getting Default Folder, Power Windows, Window Monkey, Snitch, and FinderPop, all various almost-requisite interface enhancements (and all shareware, or outright free). You can get Mac06 or MacDOS, to control things via a command-line (unix and DOS, respectively), but do yourself a favor and learn all the keyboard shortcuts for menus and window navigation. Since they're standardized on ALL apps (no one buys those that attempt to not conform), you'll be able to fly faster than any command-line. This is basically because each command will be a single keystroke and you'll get feedback in 2D instead of 1D. Give it a chance and you'll see how efficient a properly-designed GUI can be (this coming from someone who spent the day troubleshooting a Windows network and who has seven accounts on various unices).
You did an end run around all the salient points. The iMac's design philosophy, as evidenced by its INCREDIBLE sales success, leads me to believe that there is a market to be served by simple computers. Just 'cuz you don't like it doesn't mean it's not so.
Circular logic is logic that is used to prove itself. Just because you didn't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong.
Consumer products (in the sense that the iMac is a consumer desktop computer, and the iBook is a consumer laptop) as opposed to professional products is a common differentiator within product lines of all sorts of technical gadgetry. Sure, Joe Sixpack can buy an umpty bajillion dollar Nikon FX 500000 camera, but that doesn't make it a product designed for consumers.
In your narrow view that if somebody uses object x, they are a consumer, yes you are correct...Linux is a consumer product. But you've just made "consumer product" redundant. In the sense that I (and a bunch of other people posting here and Steve Jobs) are using the term consumer, it means "non-geek computer user". That's not you. It's not me, either, but I'm open minded enough to see that the iBook serves every conceivable need I might have in the near term for a portable computer. Therefore, I (and a bunch of non-geek computer users, like my grandma) will buy them.
Calling my grandma names doesn't make your point correct. Go learn about "ad hominem rhetoric" and how to avoid it. It makes you look foolish.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
The iBook has special antennas already built into the plastics so you can't just plug in the PC-Card and use the Airport.
You may not have heard of Mac OS X [X as in ten, not X Windows], which is 4.4 BSD with a Mac UI on top. Not more stinkin' toy OS. Free at last, free at last, free at last. I've seen reports that Apple may just embrace FreeBSD instead of maintaining their own BSD variant.
The first alpha [Apple called it Developer Release 1] was distributed to thousands of developers at the World Wide Developer Conference in May of this year. I have it installed on a PowerMac 8500 right here. On the 7300 I have Yellow Dog Linux. Then there's my Linux box. And on here I am running BeOS 4.5.
Look ma, I can telnet everywhere .
[ReidNews]
SCSI ?
;)
;)
If you want SCSI on the iBook then buy the Adaptec SCSI/USB cable !!!
Don't forget that the iBook is not the Powerbook.
If you want FW and SCSI get a Powerbook
iBook is a revolution, the real start of the wireless communications, better than the Palm VII...
Imagine, you can have 10 machines (even PC) around a Airport base and playing Quake 3 or Unreal !
The video card is pretty cool ATI Rage Mobility AGPx2 !!
Cooooool !
Apple, I Love you
The display on the new iBook is 12.1 opposed to the 14.1 reported.
--
Scott Miga
I thought it was 2 million iMacs sold?
Linux? -EASILY-?
Bwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaah-hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Brother, Linux don't run "easily" on a netwinder, and the sumbitch was -desinged- to run Linux...lord knows it don't run "easily" on the morass of incompatible standards known as the "peecee".
Is linux:
Powerful? Yes.
Extensible? Yes.
Hackable? Yes.
Free? Yes.
Easy? What color is the sky in -your- world?
"Using the force to score chicks"
Darth JarJar
bercovic@swi.psy.uva.nl wrote (approximately): " ... the new keyboards SUCK!"
...
... jeez.) Sure, laptop keyboards are going to be smaller, but -- no, I take that back. Look at an iMac keyboard, subtract the number pad, and you have what looks and feels like a laptop keyboard. I hope the G3 one is at least not worse than this.
I haven't seen a new G3 laptop to comment, but I must say that the monstrosity (minstrosity?) that comes with the iMac is a horrible joke. My office computer is an iMac and despite many complaints I do like it in many ways. But the keyboard
Well, I can't quote figure out which combination I'm hitting, but I constantly fumble onto some keystroke which tries to do a 'Save As' on my documents, and which could be disastrous if I didn't stop quickly before accidently hitting Return and having my document renamed "lkajsd."
C'mon, Apple! Users use their keyboards as input devices, not clever pieces of sculpture! (So far I've had to backspace and correct about 5 times in this stupid paragraph
an ambivalent Apple user*
timothy
* Still love the old SE/30, though!
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I used to be a die hard Mac person. I mean, right down to knowing every little detail about every machine Apple had sold since 1980. Someone need to know what kind of PRAM battery a IIFX used? I'd be yer guy. (2x 3.6v lith). So I really do like seeing these articles on /. and in the news.
:-?.
But prices and the OS just really caused me to drift away. 7.5x was an absolute nightmare and 7.6 no real help. Bash 98 to your hearts content, I'll join you, but if I saw "An error of type 11 has just occurred" or "The application "unknown" has unexpectedly quit" one more time I'd have eaten my own spleen. From what I have seen this was around the time Apple really began to lose many of it's more loyal user base.
These new powerbooks look spiffy, certainly, and I really do hope that Apple gains a bit more of a foothold over M$. But with this snooty attitude that no matter what, people will continue to buy their product (not that M$ doesn't take the same 'tude) IMO they will never regain more than cult status. If the new consumer model has even a small amount of upgrade-ability (meaning more than just RAM) and if users will have more than just one OS as an option for them I would consider buying one for my niece.
I'm sorry though, but I just want to kick Mr. Black-turtle-neck-tofu-munchin'-sandle-wearing Steve Jobs right in the kiwis. I saw an interview with him and his wife and they talked about their being healthy vegetable-aryans, and his kid had done something really really good so as a treat Steve gave him a cup of fruit flavored tea. Tea? You're a billionaire, you cheap git, buy the kid a fucking bike ferchrissakes
Killing spammers is too good for them.
PC laptops aren't anywhere *near* as fast as that, and the best of them only have 66 MHz buses, along with slower compnoents in just about every other sense. There are some new PC laptops that can run at full speed when plugged in, but we used to call those "luggables." When running normally, they're dogs.
Even at the same clock speed, current PC laptops just don't measure up. Not to mention that they're much more expensive for equivalent machines.
There's nothing more deserving of praise than making something that's powerful and easy to use.
Wah!
Also, I don't know if you know about this, but Mac OS X is supposed to come out some time early next year, and it's based on BSD Unix, and the command line is supposed to be optional, so that would fill that need...
Your files/folders were probably set to SHARE. The MacOS prevents you from changing the name while said files/folders are being shared (for the obvious reason).
I can understand why your friend made the mistake, but he really shouldn't blame the system -- the answer is right there in the Mac's built in Help system. Me thinks your buddy would also pound his head into a door if he didn't have a key to unlock it. Next time, look under the mat.
Jobs didn't yank the functionality out of the OS, but he did pull out Apple's support as not all the themes worked properly. However, you could fire up a search engine or hotline and search for the hi-tech, gizmo, or drawing board themes and they'll work fine (just drag onto system folder).
Although if you already payed for Kaleidoscope you'd be better off sticking with it (more themes/support etc).
Firstly, I painted my new box purple. I had a friend who painted his black. SGI machines have been coming in purple for a long time. Did you think that you were the first person to notice this? PC's are modular, and the various cards that go inside them need to fit within fairly good precision. Why spend a lot of money coming up with a design that will be prohibitively expensive; especially when the market for people buying *just cases* are the people who care the least about them?
I don't know about you, but when I pop the hood on my car, I get confused pretty quickly. Usually, there's some sort of stick for checking the oil. Sometimes I can find it. Hell, sometimes I can even figure out if I'm low or not.
But I'm not clamoring for "user friendly engines". It's just not a priority. There are some people who understand my engine, and many other engines. I call these people "mechanics". You may have heard of them. They do a better job fixing my car's engine than I do. I respect them for that.
Also, you may have heard of these people called doctors. If I had taken an anatomy/physiology class last year, I could probably name some of my organs. But when I'm sick, I go to the doctor, and s/he'll usually find out what is wrong with me, and even present a solution. I respect her for that. But no matter how many times you read "Doctor's Guide to Home Remedies", you'll still have to go to the doctor sometimes.
Additionally, if you ever get a cavity, you may understand that it is fixed by drilling a hole in the tooth and filling it with something. I have yet to see a home dentistry kit that offers you this ability.
My point is very simple: humans have finite brains that can only learn so much. The solution in the past has been to allow certain members of society who indicate an interest to specialize their knowledge in a particular field. These people become the experts or the doctors or the mechanics or dentists or whatever. You go to them when you have a problem.
Why does everybody seem to think that computers should be the exception? Is it because you don't die if you don't use them? Seems like some pretty strange mentality. Do you think that everyone who, like me, have spent countless hours trying to learn this thing should just be cast aside as "just like everyone else"? I know people who have their car as their hobby, and I respect them for having more knowledge. Why do people like you have such a hard time understanding that there will always be someone who knows more than you do in at least one area?
People who've never used a computer before still need a few lessons before they can figure out the basic stuff, whether the OS is Windows or MacOS (in spite of the claims on both sides). Perhaps if I'd had a few lessons in fixing my car, I wouldn't rely on my mechanic as much. But things aren't really that bad, having to have someone else fix it. I fix lots of computers; is it my fault they're complicated? Why is this an issue?
In any field there are going to be people with more sheer knowledge about a concept. With anything but computers, everyone seems to think it's OK. What is it about computers that everyone thinks they have a right? I worked for this knowledge! I'd be glad to share it--GLAD to share it! But I'm not going to make it so much easier on you that you lose the point.
Yeah I jst got one. 400MHZ DVD cdrom, 8 GB hd, 10/100 mb ethernet, 56k modem, all built in. Slick
I don't want to have to program anything just to surf the net or balance my checkbook or send some email to someone! I get 100% out of my computer and I've never once programed anything...ever!
These programs perfectly suit MY needs. How dare you say they don't! What could I possibly gain by writing my own programs? Nothing.
I personally have no need to use Perl either. But guess what, I am using MY computer to it's full potential...for ME!
Why do I have to know how to program just because I want to check the weather this weekend? Or check out the news? Or do a little writing?
Well...ok, let's take your little rant and apply it to something else. I personally believe that anyone who really uses a car should know how to build one from scratch, in one way or another, depending on what they use the car for.
I personally believe that anyone living in any type of dwelling should know how to build that dwelling from scratch.
I personally believe that anyone living should know everything a doctor does, in one way or another, depending on what they use their surgical skills for. I'm not a doctor, but it's a skill that I have found to be invaluable.
You're on crack pal...
--- "It's not enough that I succeed...everyone else must fail."
But maybe he would spend too much time trying to figure out what a shovel does.
Well, the world needs idiots too I guess.
--- "It's not enough that I succeed...everyone else must fail."
There are two very good reasons why Be hasn't reverse-engineered a G3 version:
1. It would be an idiotic business decision. They only have 95 employees (maybe 50 engineers) and badly need to get better driver support and hardware OpenGL in place. Despite the IPO, they will be in deep trouble if they don't generate a sizable revenue stream in the next year or two, and x86 is where the numbers are. No executive in his right mind would use his limited manpower reverse engineering a hardware platform from a hostile manufacturer, especially when that platform accounts for less than 10% the market.
2. Apple "has more lawyers than Be has employees". Even if Be could eventually prove that "G3 BeOS" was a strict clean-room project, Apple could sue them and almost certainly obtain an injunction preventing Be from selling the product until the suit was settled. By then, of course, the G3 would be discontinued and the specs would be different...
Anyone with the slightest business sense knows that there is NO WAY IN HELL Be would ever make a cent from reverse-engineering BeOS for G3 without Apple's blessing. You seem to think that legal and business considerations are some sort of irrelevant BS that can be safely ignored as long as the project is technologically possible.
I have started a petition to get Apple involved in Linux. Whether you like the iBook or not, it woul dbe nice and good for Linux to have Apple help Linux efforts such as LinuxPPC. Go to heagy.com/etheme/petition/.
I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
And yeah, the Sony VAIOs look nice, but the cheaper models have ridiculously feeble keyboards and screens. I think most media professionals would for a Bronze G3 PowerBook with a FireWire card.
Steve announced the specs:
12.1" TFT Display - 800x600@24bit
Rage Mobility graphics, 4MB VRAM
300MHz G3 w/512k backside cache
24x CDROM
32MB RAM, upgradable to 150MB
3.2 GB hard drive
56k modem
USB
10/100 Ethernet
full-sized keyboard
battery life: 6 hours!
Colors; Tangerine and BlueBerry
Price: $1599, available in September
Oh, and get this:
AirPort WIRELESS NETWORKING!!!!!!!!!!!
The stats on this:
Wireless LAN
11 MBps
Based on 802.11 wireless networking
40-bit encrypted transfers
It has a baseStation with modem and ethernet.
How cool is that!
- Vincit qui patitur.
Who wants to use Be anyway? While it is wrongly said that the Mac has no apps, Be really has no apps!
The one and (thankfully) only,
LafinJack
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
Cripes. You could've just posted an URL...
Not sure where you got $4100, but the new PowerBook G3 (Bronze) is $2699 for 333/64/6GB/CD and 3499 for 400/64/6GB/DVD.
Those prices are pretty much inline with Compaq, Dell, and IBM. In fact I think that they are cheaper in price than IBM.
the "I write software for myself" argument?
(this is devil's advocate, not a flame)
This seems to be a pervading theme around the OSS community.. if a perfectly great piece of proprietary software is out there, the RMS-led mantra is to re-write it for "ourselves" so it's been cleansed and blessed by the FSF. Until a free alternative is available, it would be immoral to use the proprietary software.
In such a scenario, is co-existence not an option?
I think most linux users are also proprietary software users, so this isn't really a complaint, just a question about this ideal we're supposedly heading towards..
-Stu
Whoa, hold it there, flamers.
The same thing actually happened to me the first time I used a Mac.Until then the only GUI I had used was the Amiga. (This was over ten years ago, so Windows was still pretty much nonexistent).
In the Amiga Workbench GUI, you renamed a file by selecting the icon, then selecting the File/Rename command.You got a dialog with an edit field, and in it you typed the new name.That was what I was used to, that was what I expected to find on the Mac, and that's what I _should_have_ found, because that's actually consistent with every other "non-dragging" file operation, Mac or Amiga. You select the icon, then you select a command from the File menu.
When I discovered that you could actually edit the file label on the Mac,I was impressed, sure,but it didn't strike me as "intuitive" within the context of the Mac GUI. It still doesn't.
Why? Because there is absolutely no indication that an icon's text label is editable until you double-click it. Everywhere else, editable text fields have clear visual cues (i.e., frames). And _nowhere_ else can you double-click a seemingly static text field and make it editable.
Yes, overall,this scheme is a good thing (Win95 copied it), and once you learn it, it's so simple that you'll never forget it. But for the beginning user (which every single CS student - yes, you too - was at one time), tiny inconsistencies like that can be puzzling roadblocks.
Note that even the oh-so-advanced KDE doesn't let you rename icon labels directly.
I'm one of the lucky ones who snagged one of the Powerbook G3/400's at CompUSA about a month ago. This is my first Macintosh (my old Dell served me well), and I picked it up primarily because I've been really impressed with Apple's performance & attitude lately - plus the MacOS has really grown on me, and I can run LinuxPPC on this at blazing PowerPC speeds...
:)... VirtualPC running Win95 is acceptable performance-wise & I can do some WebObjects development with it when I'm travelling on the plane...
.. the battery life on low-processor speed mode is around 3.5 hours... 2.8 hours otherwise. (which is unfortunately less than Apple's way over stated 5 hours battery life, which I'm sure is possible, but only if I had the laptop just "sitting there" for 5 hours :))
Anyhow, my impression so far is sheer bliss. This laptop is great - huge screen, comfortable keyboard & trackpad, great connectivity & speed. The SCSI connection is a great touch, and the USB 2-button mouse I bought works well (who sez you can't have 2-buttons on a Mac?
My only problems so far are minimal: there were marks on the screen when I first got the laptop, apparently from the keyboard rubbing against the plastic wrap on the screen during shipping. Windex cleaned that up. I also have a dead pixel on the screen, which is only noticable when the screen is on certain colour-shades... considering that the "bad screen limit" is around 3 to 5 dead pixels, this is an acceptable problem...
the DVD player is great & I'm already watched several movies on it
I still have to put LinuxPPC on this thing, but so far, so good...
-Stu
One more way to do it is sele t the icon, press return, start typing, and press return again.
The one and (thankfully) only,
LafinJack
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
That is one really fancy crap.
The one and (thankfully) only,
LafinJack
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
Here are the specs from the presentation at MacWorld...
"iBook"
the
"iMac to go"
-- 12.1" full TFT
-- 800*600/millions color.. ATI RAGE Mobility
-- 300MHz G3
-- built-in 24 CD
-- 32MB.. expandable 264MB RAM
-- 56K, USB, 10/100 Ethernet
-- full keyboard
-- 6 hours battery life]
-- iMac plastics and rubber coating
-- handle, opens like a cell phone (no latch needed)
$1599-- available "this September" in volume
accepting pre-orders today
wireless networking... "AirPort wireless"? 802.11 11Mb/s... working with Lucent
Airport base station... 56K/10-100 can accept an "AirPort" card... iBook has built-in antennas... 10 iBooks can share one base station
150 feet away
When did Apple have an opportunity to buy BeOS? This is news to me.
Not like they could anyway. The founder of Be, Inc. is none other than the leather-pants wearing former Apple marketing manager Jean-Louis Gassee. This is the guy who about ripped the fool who dared suggest Apple license MacOS way back when a new asshole, according to Jim Carlton's book.
MacOS X has some NeXT technology in it, but it also has a lot of MacOS, hence its name. But NeXT was way past its prime, and Be has hella marketing potential. What would be the point of buying Be just to munge its saleable product with Apple's?
J.
damned vulpine http://sb.drtwister.com/
I just checked out the Apple site and now that the Keynote is over the new iBook is announced and will be sold starting in september.
for more info go here
looks like another winner for Apple
"Understanding is a three-edged sword"--Kosh
sorry, RAM is expandable to *128MB* NOT 264...
it comes in two colors... blueberry/tangerine
512K L2 cache
66MHz bus
3.2GB IDE HD
built-in mono speaker
16-bit stereo ouput
ATI chip is AGP 2X!!! (the FIRST Mac product with AGP!!)... 4MB SDRAM
Width: 13.5"
Height: 29.4"
ave depth: 1.8"
weight: 6.7lbs
OK, the iMac looked fairly good, but this thing is hideous!
The whole point of the Mac was to eliminate the need to RTFM. And if you had to RTFM, the software was designed badly.
Gross simplification, but nonetheless...
- Sure it is.
"Q. Can you connect an external display to iBook? A. No. iBook does not support video output or mirroring to an external display. The computer's video architecture is designed to provide the best personal user experience. Thus, it uses the highest-quality 12.1-inch TFT screen for easy viewing and clarity."
- Easy viewing on a screen the size of an unfolded pocket organizer. Or slightly smaller than an overhead transparency (which is what you'll be using for your business presentations if you spend $2 thou on this).
Also, you're right, there's 10 references to 'school' or 'classes' sprinkled liberally around there... Maybe little johnny should get a two thousand dollar computer for his birthday! To match his gucci shoes! *vomit*
Wah!
/. seems to be filled with people who are clueless about how companies work.
Just because hackers get something working on Apple's hardware doesn't mean a company can make money by doing the same thing. Remember, Apple is just as big as Microsoft. They could easily block Be from selling a reverse-engineered OS, at least until the G3 was discontinued. Even if Apple eventually lost the suit, they would still keep Be out of the picture.
x86 offers by far the best chance for BeOS to get established, even if the G3 is technically superior.
if this damn thiung had a pc card slot than you could get a nice standards compliant wireless connection
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
You know, rewind one year, and /. had the same conversation about the iMac. i only un-lurk myself when people are being ignorant about things (usually the Mac...), and i'd just like to point out one thing. There are 1.8M iMacs in happy homes today. if Slashdot is any indication, the iBook, as well, is the way of the future. All the same things are being said, and all the same arguments rear their ugly head. So, answer your own questions before you argue.
1. Of course Linux will run on it eventually.
2. Of course, it wasn't meant to, since the iBook is not meant for any of us.
3. Of course, people will kvetch about the lack of floppy drive, the colors, or whatever.
4. Of course, it just won't matter.
Stop haranguing Apple, everyone. They don't do a single thing that effects you. Unless you're smart enough to be open-minded, and, dare i say it, to think different.
When it comes out there will be a PCMCIA card for powerbooks. Yay!
Actually, the color part is rubberized (at least, that's what I thought I heard in Jobs's keynote). The entire bottom, however, is colored, so...
I want a grape one, but guess not.
Insert wit here.
I guess so, that's where the questing part comes in
:)
unlike me
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
or double that if want to be *really* happy.
:)
As far as CPU and hard drive go, a p100 is more then enought to run windows 95. Remember '95 was orgionaly targeted at a 486 with 8 megs of ram. (they did miss the target by quite a bit, 8megs of ram was pretty bad....)
With windows it's all about ram, and lots of it (actualy, with netscape, IE, ICQ, AOLim and winamp open, my system routenly allocates over 150 megs of ram)
I personaly wouldn't want a huge ass laptop. Give me light and elegant any day! an 8 pound laptop just isn't somthing I want to carry around all day
I've been in love with the toshiba libretto since its inseption. It's *so* sexy
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
The iBook has one mono speaker. (Of course, you can't get the speakers far enough apart on a PowerBook to get reasonable stereo sound)
It also has a minijack sound-out port. (Good for external speakers, or (if you put it through an external volume control) headphones.)
Insert wit here.
what is so hard about typing on little keyboards? it might not be *as* fast, but its not that difficult at al! I can touch type on a ti-92 (about a 4 inch keyboard) just fine. and I have huge hands!
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
You're doing more tha nenough of it for everybody. Oh, yeah, one mopre thing, not everybody can AFFORD a ZIP and the GROSSLY OPVERPRICED media they use.
While I am very fond of the revitalized Apple in general and of the new Macs in particular, I have to say that the choice of Tangerine as one of the two introductory colors astonishes me. Tangerine is one of the worst selling colors for the multi-color iMacs: why would Apple think that it was a good choice for a model only available in two colors initially?
I would have thought that they would releast the consumer portable in either all five "flavors" at once, or in just the most popular (Blueberry, Grape and Cherry).
I think the machine is pretty compelling, but I'm not about to buy one until I can get it in purple.
--
--
Think Green... Burn only 100% recycled dinosaurs in you car.
I have a big penis, what does that mean? anything?
maybe that's why I like having cute little computers so much (no need to overcompensate).
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I didn't think anyone could make anything worse looking than the iMac, but Apple has succeeded in topping themselves.
The iBook looks like a magna-doodle, no..wait..it looks like a purse for a teenager. The tangerine one Jobs showed at the show was just horrid.
The price and specs are OK - they're better than OK, but it looks awful. Stick with black or a single color translucent one.
I'm pretty sure they reverse engineered the G3's.
But in any event, LinuxPPC is an open source product, and given the way open source operates, it's unlikely that Apple could keep details given to LinuxPPC secret if they wanted to. If Be wants to know how the G3 works, they can just look at LinuxPPC's source, or even simpler, ask the LPPC developers. I don't know what the exact problem the Be team had is, but I suspect that they're just lazy and see larger market share on the Wintel side to expend the effort to figure it out. As others have suggested, Intel money can't have hurt either.
Wow... 5 hours on a single battery, I am impressed.. .
I knew the macs were supposed to have a longer battery life but I had no idea it was so radical.
ANd With a second battery you that makes 10 hours! Geez... I hope they aren't talking about sleep mode...
I might just consider one of these... I am impressed, really great package... I hoped I had looked at those machines before!
Manufactures put keyboards on their computers? What a waste of time and money! Hackers have no need for keysboards -- they send the scan codes in with toggle switches!!!
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Yeah, I've been holding onto my PowerComputing 180 until the G4s are out. :)
This thing's gonna make a pretty sweet BSD/*nix box when I move over to the new machine
pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
very cool:
http://www.apple.com (well duh!)
--------------------------------
the new ibook, on the other hand, is terribly terribly cute. sadly, with it's colorful little handle, it looks like a teenaged girl's briefcase. As of this posting the http://www.apple.com/ibook/ page was swamped, but I'm certain that the traffic will die down in short order.
in the words of the press release on the apple page, the ibook is a 'hot little number' (tee hee). specs at http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html.
remember to match your ibook color to your new beatle!
However, considering that the kernel now supports the iMac and the Blue G3's, I'd imagine iBook support won't be terribly difficult to do (remember that Apple's working on unifying the architecture so that all the models will eventually share one motherboard). My guess is that it'll support the iBook in a few weeks.
The biggest problem will be adding PPC AGP support to the kernel (needed for the video); that's never been done before. Existing x86 AGP code will help, but there are issues to overcome...
You have funny math if you think that $1599=$2000. That little factoid aside, do you have any idea how many college students get $2K+ laptops nowadays? This is a goldmine. Just 'cuz your mommy and daddy didn't buy you a computer (mine didn't either...), don't think that everybody is that way.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Well, never fear, the REAL news about the iBook consumer portable ( iBook )shouldn't make you feel too inadequate about your PowerBook! The new consumer portable is cute, but I'd rather have your machine ... :-)
YS
"Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
Don't worry. Apple regards AppleTalk and AppleShare as legacy systems. Now that they're firmly under the control of NeXT, expect them to quit futzing around with expensive, slow, proprietary networking brain damage.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
but they, of couse, are slow..
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
> I like to build my computers from the ground
> up and compile my kernel to the exact
> specifications that I like.
So you fabricate your own chips? Wow.
> I'm not saying that the iMac and iBook don't
> have their places I'm just saying they are not > for me.
Yes, I know that. We all know that. Apple knows that. You don't want to buy an iBook. Well guess what, Apple doesn't want to sell iBooks to Slashdot geeks like you/us either! It sounds as if you think there's something wrong with that.
> If you think I'm on a high horse let me set you
> straight. The approach I take is hard. I
> spend many frustrated hours trying to
> figure out simple things that Mac's do
> automatically. But
> when I'm done I am happy because I have learned
> how the computer actually works.
Fine. Just realize that for the typical iBook user, and most computer users in general, who don't care to learn how the computer actually works and have different interests, a "hard approach" with "many frustrated hours" is synonymous with "ridiculous waste of time."
you can't have more then one menu open in windows ether. Its not that you can't have more then one menu up on a mac, its that it *hardlocks the entire system* when you hold one down, anything that the computer was doing, stops. infact you can bring down entire *networks* this way.....
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I walk around at work using keyboards on at least a half dozen different keyboards each day. Some new Compaq keyboards on OS/2 and Windows machines, some Sun keyboards, wretched old keyboards from long-dead systems that get plugged into the hidden keyboard port on the embedded-OS/2 product my group develops code to work with. Every keyboard in existence seems to have a different place for certain important keys. Tilde is probably the worst. And inevitably I'm telneting from somewhere else in the company and really need that tilde to point home.
I don't buy this idea that "hackers" have no need for legends on keys. Maybe prima-donna hackers who carry their special keyboard with them in a little slipcase, but the rest of us down in the trenches work with what's out there.
well, I'm sure youre a mac freak who loves everything apple does, even when you're clearly wrong,
however, from what I've seen, that thing is fucking ugly.
out of 4 posts, 3 negative, 1 positive..
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Is here
all modern computers have a 'idle' loop, just a simple loop that does nothing and fills up the time when there is not task that needs to be done
there are some good plugins for windows9x that replaces that loop with a hlt CPU instruction, turning off the CPU. this can be done on a millisecond, or even microsecond scale.
I ran this on my computer, and my *way* overclocked CPU ran with *no* heatup *at all*, room temprature all the way.
I had to take it off though, beacuse I could hear the CPU turning on and off through the sound card (FM interferance, if only it was faster than 44khz...)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
AFAIK, paint will eat through the rubberized parts on these things. I painted my G3 black, and discovered to my horror that the rubberized film on the hockey puck mouse bubbled up like salted snails when I accidentally sprayed it a little on the outside surface. Fortunately, the majority of the Powermac doesn't have this rubberized film on it, but it seems that the iBook has quite a bit of this stuff on it. Just be careful where you spray, guys.
Closed software? Yeah, to some degree. However, take a look at the direction they're headed in. THey've already Open-Sourced Darwin and QuickTime Server; my guess is that thty're testing the waters. If we don't give them a reason to regret this decision, it's likely they'll Open-Source more.
(Then again, there are so many anti-Apple zealots in the OSS community that my guess is that we'll be giving Apple plenty of reason to regret it, jugding from all the Apple-bashing I hear here).
Closed hardware: Again, to some degree. But again, look at the direction they're moving in. They went from NuBus to PCI, a more open standard. ADB to USB. SCSI to FireWire (well, there's a step back, but consider the steps forward). a proprietary ROM to OpenFirmware and no ROM (they're still cleaning out the last vestiges of the ROM, but it should be noted that the versions on the Blue G3's, iBooks, and the latest iMacs contain no OS-level code at all.) Couple this with an Open-Source operating sytstem made by Apple which lets you get the system specs easily.
Over-priced? You're one of those "something for nothing" freaks, I guess; you want a machine which beats the pants off of any comparably-priced PC for the same price as a PC. You're dreaming. It's better, and it deserves a higher price (notice also that the prices have come down; can you imagine what an iBook would have cost three years ago, switching its current specs for equivalent ones of the time?)
And unreliable: compared to Linux, yes. But it's by no means the worst on the market. A properly-maintained Mac will outdo NT in terms of stability and performance (then again, I suppose that isn't saying much).
And you know what, I'd say the emperor really isn't wearing any clothes, Your Imperial Majesty.
Actually the PIIs on the Notebooks are faster for games and most other apps, (ones that don't need a lot of cache) than a stock PII becuase they have a 256K fullspeed internal cache. They are a couple of % faster than a standard PII unless you are data serving.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Only on the mac.
deal with it
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
This is EXACTLY the reaction Apple was looking for among those who can AFFORD a Lombard. The designers have done an excellent job creating a look attractive and cute to the targeted young and repulsive to the affluent business crowd. Why cannibalize your high end PB sales by offering an attractively designed (at least for business users) low priced alternative. With this design Apple can have it both ways protect their high end PB market and expand their base with new young buyers! After all this strategy has worked with the imac hasn't it? Design at its marketing best.
Yeah but does it have a disk drive?
I know of a few people who complained about that.
-cpd
*sigh* when will it end?
you can boot a PC off just about anything. zip, floptical, CDrom, whatever.
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I prefer The beautifull magisum alloy cases of the toshiba protige, instaid of the bright 'tangerne' Rubber grips of the iBook any day.
I guess I have no taste
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
If the new iBook will run Linux, I'd definitely :)
consider picking one up. Though I'd have to get
an external three button mouse.
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Runs it as if it is P2 200MHz, in a window too :)
my god its gorgeous
i have to get one!
and that airport? sure as hell sounds cool
neeeeed iBook
I don't know about anybody else around here, but I knock MS for CRAPPY software and monopolistic business practices. Closed business models have their place, as open ones are still in early stages of development.
When you can figure out how to get a grassroots community to design AND MANUFACTURE world-beating hardware (the way that Linux has come about), let me know. I'll be first in line to help develop your product.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Apple puts letters on their keys? What a waste of time and money. Hackers have no need for legends on keys -- they know where every key is by heart.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
next to this, the iMac is a fucking work of art. I don't want to pay $1500 for such a butt ugly peice of shit. If I'm going to pay so much, I'd at least want somthing that dosn't look like a bath toy
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
*sexy*
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I've been shopping for notebooks for a while and decided on the powerbook g3 (new 333). I did this for a reason. After reading all the benchmarks in the world I realized the g3 and pII were strong competitors in performance. But their is one thing the g3 has the pII can't even come close to. Power management. The battery life is much much much longer than any comparably priced notebook I checked. I don't care if my app runns 10% slower if the laptop gives me an extra hour to work. This is much more important. Plus MOBILE pII's do not perform the same as desktop pII's (be damned if I could find a reliable benchmark between the two), and most of the negative g3 bench's I found tested stuff like EXCELL which is HEAVILY optimized for win98/intel from everything I have read. I have never ever considered purchassing a Mac before because ease of use isn't all that important to me compared to what I can get per $. The powerbook convinced me it gave me a long battery life, coupled with top noch performance. It may not be *the* fastest, but I think its advantages more than make up the difference. I'm not to excited about running macOS though, never done it before, and every time I have used it, it has felt "cramped" (I know, I will be putting linux on it, but I will most likely be keeping macOS arround for word processing etc...). Anyone mind telling me a good place to really customize the macOS, is this possible? I would like to completely change the look and feel, plus I would love to figure a way to get to a command line interface, but it does not look like one exists :(. (I am speeking entirely from ignorance about macOS here, any mac users PLEASE set me strait, would like to know more).
The preceding passage has been checked for spelling, you will find no sentence without at least one mis spelled word
750 and 740 @ 1.9V
What are you talking about?
No SCSI (duh).
Useless. Add $3K.
[Anyway, no way I'm going 12.1". 14.1" is bad enough (there's at least one noname PC maker offering 15").]
- The only OS (asfarasIcansee) which has both [GUI and CLI] is, *tada* BeOS! Oh well.
You should get out more. You pretty conveniently forgot OS/2, which can run quite nicely without a GUI, and NeXT, which has an awesome GUI and is totally telnet-friendly.Let's hope BeOS is more successful than those two.
If your read my comments a little more carefully you will see that they were directed towards the iMac as well, which shares a similar design philosphy.
If my computer knowledge makes me a computer bad-ass that's just fine by me. It doesn't mean that it is my goal.
Your circular logic baffles the mind:
you asked for a consumer product that doesn't assume your an idiot; I gave one.
then you define a consumer product as something that your grandma (read: idiot) can use.
Obviously I can't argue with flawed logic like that. I do state two facts:
1. Linux is a product.
2. By downloading and installing it people consume it. Some even purchase CD's containing the product.
Linux is a consumer product. The fact that your grandma is an idiot doesn't change that fact. What you want for your grandma is a dumbed-down version of linux that any moron can use. This is also a consumer product. But not one I'm interested in.
My sig has a broken link in it.
there are no power macintosh emulators for the PC. There are several that emulate various levels of 680X0, but there is nothing that attempts the PPC chip. This serverely limits what you can do.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
only two: blueberry and tangerine?
i'm disappointed; i was hoping for a gray. too bad.
anyone know anything about this Airport thing? is it just a stronger IR port, or what? is it an open hardware standard, or is apple gonna make it mac-only or something?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
The *real* question is how much the wireless hub is going to cost. If it's an 11Mbps system, the card is going to cost $600 and the hub $1200. If it's 2Mbps, the card will cost $300 and the hub $800. That's still too damn expensive.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
- The biggest one is that computers are powerful because they are programmable.
... If you are really going to get the full use out of a computer, you aren't going to do it by just surfing the web, by just using some wordprocessing program to type up a paper.... I am saying that to really be able to use a computer, programs other people have written are not going to perfectly suit your needs.
This is just techie elitism.People don't need to program their computers. In fact, you program very few of the computers you use.
Other people wrote the programs that run my VCR, my microwave oven and my car engine. Maybe I could think of some reason to reprogram them, but I don't want to and I certain don't want to be required to know how these things work in order to use them. The computer that runs slashdot was programmed by other people and I can't do a damn thing about it. (I'd have used Java Servlets, which are much more efficient than Perl CGI.)
For the record, I'm perfectly capable of programming the computers I own. I've done assembly programming for microcontrollers in embedded environments. I can debug with a (real) ICE. This makes me considerably more 31337 than computer literacy evangelists like you. Still, embedded programming is a headache and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Back in 1980, an MIT grad student friend of mine told me that there would eventually be two kinds of computers:
- The "appliance" that you would just turn on an use with little ability to program or configure. This would be the computer for the "Masses."
- The "workstation". This would be like Linux or OS/2. It would be a powerful system that was open to programming (or, in the case of Linux, anything).
In reality, we got three kinds. The third is the common "Office Workstation." This is clunky, broken piece of shit that tries to simultaniously provide a robust progrmaming environment yet be simple to use for the non-technical. This is what Windows is. This is what OS/2 became. This is what Linux is evolving into now (Gnome + E? Yikes!).I think we should follow my friend's vision. Rather than trying to make Linux easy to use, in general, we should have "Home Linux" and "Office Linux" distros, which are much too rigid for you and me, but simple for people like my uncle Bob.
Sigh... something to do in my "spare" time. Ha!
The LinuxPPC people will probably take a few weeks after introduction to get it to run. If Steve was really serious about the OpenSource movement, he'd give them advance access to one so it'd run Linux on release day. The power consumption probably won't be as good. 8.6 had some dramatic battery life improvements. But there's no reason it wouldn't run eventually. Both the iMac and the PB G3's run Linux just fine.
No need to get into conniptions if you don't like it.
July 22, 1999, 6:54 a.m. PT
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FRA: STFU GTFO
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
have fun...
now if i could only get it in purple
The orange one looks like a cream-sicle, and the blue one a toilet seat. Hey Apple, pack a little dignity in with all your bells and whistles.
It looks like a fancy birth control pill holder.
well, if you want to look at it as computers being a toy or a tool, then isn't linux the biggest toy of all?
.xinitrc or other things like that. The only thing you think about is what you're doing.
MacOS may look nice, but it works. You can, like, use it to do things, and never ever have to even think about ld.so.conf or
Linux, on the other hand, also works just as well, but after some tooling. However from your point of view the main thing about it seems to be the accomplishment that you forced it to work. Meaning that you would basically like playing with linux, tweaking it, making it do neat things.
So, which one is the toy and which one is the tool: the OS [linux] that you play with to make it work, or the OS [macos] you just use? (well, the OS you use until it crashes, anyway)
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Am I the only one who really misses the original iMac bondi blue color? I think it's killer - much better than any of the current flavors - and I would consider buying an iMac in the near future if I could get a 333 MHz one in Bondi. *sigh*
Maybe they'll release a smoky-grey and white iBook, reclaiming some of the ground between it and the PBook G3s. Would look less like a toy.
One other thing: for those of you who complain that a true consumer laptop would cost around $700, check out eBay!!
You are correct in that repair and maintenance, that is best left to the pros or the hobbyists willing to learn (I'm ruling out medicine as a hobby, but home renovation and car repeair is still realistic). However, we as developers should try to abstract away as much as possible in order to let the user concentrate on his or her task and not split their concentration between the mechanics of the task (dealing with the machine) and actually doing their task.
Part of the problem is that the Jungian personality profile of geeks is classified as INTP (Introverted, Intuitive, Perceiving, Thinking), a combination that makes for a relatively small portion of the general population. Inituitives can contstruct mental models more quickly, as they're pretty adept with metaphors and images (who else can grasp regular expressions or refer to a background service program as a "daemon"?). They're absent-minded professors, dreamers, great discoverers, theoreticians and inventors. The general population isn't like this, and can easily get confounded when they fail to miss the "obvious" stuff.
There are people who've already put forth better arguments than I for good usability in systems:
We as a field should address these issues before we are held in the same regard as other "necessary evil" fields, such as lawyers...
that the iBook comes out the month before the new consumer MacOS???? It is going to be shipped with OS8.6, but the question is, does that include a free upgrade to OS9?
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
Not really, but...dammit! :^)
Um... $300 for the hub, 100 for the card. $400 total. And you can use up to 10 iBooks with each hub. That means that you can wire a home wireless network for under $1000, even if you have half a dozen computers. Pretty spiffy.
And it is 11 Mbps.
Ever noticed how pompous people in the computer industry get? I doubt I'd ever see a doctor consider his patients "stupid" for inquirying about a treatment and demanding a description in laymen's English (ie "Your leg is broken" instead of "Your laterial tibia has a fracture.")
How come the computer industry is always full of these people that demand their consumers know the in's and out's of wiring a network, downloading BIOS patches, and configuring device drivers? It's something that the computer industry needs to get over eventually.
Of course, there are still power users who demand complete control over their system (I, for one, am one of them) however, we have to remember the average consumer can't tell the difference between Ethernet and Token Ring. The average user may be an international editor for Newsweek, but may not know what a "jack" is. What's wrong with that? Should he condemn you for not knowing the first thing to producing a weekly magazine? Every person has something they are knowledgable about. To condemn someone for not being techie is ridiculous.
Let's all get off our high horses. Once we do that, and only when we do that will Linux and our community as a whole affect the entire world.
-Nick Vlku vlkun@stuy.edu
Here's the memeory break down. Note: Since the mac reserves continuous blocks of memory you can actually find out how much ram each ting has at any time..
System 8.6 -> 10->13 megs of ram.
Browser, iCab 1.6 -> 2 megs of ram.
Claris E-mailer -> ~3.5 megs
Better telnet -> 1 meg
Code Warriror pro 3 -> 5 megs
Java VM overhead 3 megs
Clairs Homepage: 8
These are the only apps I ever run (in a given work day) and are loaded all at once (rarely happens). It take up 35.5, which means I'm using 3.5 megs of Virtual memory. I can live with that.
Damn overprotective Apple. Just because their business is going down the tubes doesn't mean they have to drag Be along with 'em.
Wah!
12.1 inch display? did apple just set back in time about 4 years? i beta tested laptops at dell last year, and 14.1 was the standard, with the 15 inch inspiron 7000 the premium.
and i love this quote from the site: "chances are your jacks--those little holes in the wall you plug your phone line into" - apple knows they cater to id10ts, and don't try to hide it.
they also mention playing multiplayer games. no way you'll get openGL support for this box's hardware, so you better be into bridge.
OK, the AirPort technology is very cool, and bargain-priced for 11mbps, if you've priced that kind of thing before.
What I find interesting is Apple's attempt at changing the good 'ole standard phone connector. Hehe, I got a good laugh at this obvious typo.
Check out http://www.apple.com/airport/. Take a look at the picture showing the ports on the back of the base station. Hehe, when did Ethernet change to RJ-11 and phone lines change to RJ-45??
Kinda funny...
--globalnap.net, product of pure caffeine--
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
That's a rather tasty lookin' fruit, especially if it'll run Linux. Screen's kinda small, but if the LinuxPPC folks can get Linux running on there and the Sheepshaver people ever finish the Linux port of Sheepshaver, that'd be a nice little toy to have...
:)
Wonder how quick Linux support will be on it, and if the airbridge will work too?
Hmmmm...
No officer with false teeth should attempt oral sex in zero gravity.
That was one of my favourites...
I'll try to be a bit more polite than the previous poster, but I'm sorry, that thing is the biggest eye sore I've ever seen. I've had people running out of my cube screaming in terror all morning (And no, it wasn't from looking at me, their used to that.) I'm actually not trying to be flamebait here, but I'm suprised that so few people find this thing visually painful. I have no problem with computers taking on non-traditional colors, but personally there's no WAY I'd be lugging around a flourescent blue or orange notebook...
Anyway, just my opinion...
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
Are they still pimping the bytemark? Its in the first paragraph of the page! As I remember Byte went out of bussiness. I don't think that you can say that a G3 is faster that any PII based on the Bytemark integer test. As I remember they said that the 233MHz iMac was faster than the 400MHz PII. When will Apple learn not to screw with the minds of the dumber group of its customers who actually belive this stuff. Face it a G3 is a hair faster than a PII in integer, and a lot slower in FP. It renders slower in 3D programs it plays games slower, etc. It is very wrong what they are doing. Almost as bad as the ZDnet 3D bench that said that a RagePro is faster than a Riva 128. (Don't get me started on that.)
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Is there something wrong with a non fruity, single color computer? I have to give apple credit in originality with it's designs, but they're getting ridiculous.
All I can say about the iBook is that the specs are very good, but the looks are gag inducing to be polite. It looks like a kids toy, or a girl's purse with that sissy handle. And no latch? You just wait until that thing pops open and dislodges the monitor from the base.
Also, could you image how foolish you'd look pulling a tangerine iBook out at a business meeting?
What ever happend to cool curves and design with neutral colors..how about a smoke grey translucent iBook..or an all white one?
Well since I do not own a second computer and do not have access to the internet with my home machine wireless networking is a moot point. Why is networking so cool anyway since most people need hideous security clearence from the "gods" to get that kind of access.
The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of a million is a statistic --Joseph Stalin
Just remember, this product was not created for us. This is a consumer portable, aimed at joe-six-pack and students looking for something to take to college.
-Sloth503.
As I recall, the big stink was over a *dollar* per port liscencing fee. And I think they might have even ruduced that. Apple put a lot of work into this technology, and if they can make some money on it, great. I don't think a dollar a port is going to seriously hamper its development.
BE used "closed architecture" as an excuse to take money from Wintel and walk away from Apple.
You feel for their line.
There will be linux on the iBook. Just wait.
32 MB Ram, max resolution 800x600, and i forgot the hard disk size. doesn't seem to be very useful for anything i usually do with my computer.
oh well, cheap stuff for the masses.
Once upon a time, four years ago, I had never used a computer extensively. Then my family got me a cute, thin little desktop, the Mac Quadra 605 (no FPU) and it all began, and now I am working for my CS degree at Stanford. How did this happen? I had access to an easy-to-use computer and a 14.4 modem, and it could run Photoshop, SoundEdit, Director, BBEdit, POV-Ray, and Codewarrior just fine, thank you. At one point I upgraded my CPU to the FPU version, upgraded my RAM and VRAM, and that computer is still sitting around using the most modern operating system Apple offers (try doing that with a 4 yr old Windoze machine...) I was the only girl at my high school who was at all interested in coding, and I fought vigorously against their adoption of a new NT/Windoze network because I knew it would cost them time and money compared to Macs, which usually come fully loaded and are much easier to network than their bastard cousins. Now I have a PowerMac 8600 (300mhz with 128RAM) and 26 SETI@Home work units completed, with about 16hrs/unit (I forgot to turn off VM so it was about 26hrs/unit for awhile ;) so don't you tell me that my machine is only good for word processing! I have a big, high-end monitor which I usually set to 800x600 because the font anti-aliasing in MacOS8.6 looks beautiful, and it more closely matches the size of my pressure-sensitive tablet. Flicker in this monitor is also negligible.
The point of all this jabber is that a total non-user of computers will use the consumer portable to the limit of its capabilities and there are plenty of sophisticated (freeware/shareware/hacked) applications out there to use on them, if only they go out exploring on the the internet like I did, and it appears they will be able to do that in the hottub with these iBooks. Then they will buy power-user machines.
a prophet on the burning shore
am curious as to the durability of these notebooks. checked one out last week and it seemed to have a lot of torsional flex, which could be problematic.
Ok, yeah, you can do it, but the bios has to support it and so does the cd-rom drive....
Most people with PCs can't do it.
On the other hand.... every mac, back to the MacPlus, can boot from a CD.
We aren't as dumb as you think we are..
I'm a Mac User
32 is not enough.
64 should be standard.... I don't know where that last guy got his numbers, but let's get a rundown from my Power Mac (64MB installed) system right now...
System 23MB
Communicator 25MB
Eudora Pro 2.2MB
You don't want to be slogging along with VM on a Mac... despite being faster than ever, it's still slow.
It's not light (6.7 pounds)
It's not fast (300 MHz G3)
Its display isn't great (800x600 max)
Its price is sorta ok ($1600?)
But Apple put it in a brightly colored case, so people will want to buy it. I'm starting to think that Apple's strongest feature is its slick marketing.
Though I have to admit, I like the handle.
All this consumer idiot vs. geek elitist shit is played out already. Don't want an iBook? Don't buy one.
"Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!?!"
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
Regardless of the numerous complaints I have heard, I am convinced it's gonna go over pretty big. Apple has really refined their marketing niche and though many of us don't like it, marketing does (often) make the sales...
The iBook is not for people who make sweet, sweet love to three button mice and absolutely LOVE compiling the latest version of GIMP on a nightly basis. People like you, who don't care about design, but just want something black, boxy, and dumb.
Get "serious work done"? Do you really think the iBook is targeted to people for whom all they care about is getting "serious work done"?
Figure it out: YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET MARKET.
For those of us for whom creativity means more than optimizing Perl code, it's gorgeous.
And flamebait-riffic.
It's open, and getting more so all the time. It's affordable. It's reliable. It's not for you if you don't "get it" right off the bat. Stick with Windows, and love it.
The wireless networking seems pretty slick, but what's with the 32 megs of ram, are they kidding?
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Apple didn't sell the Newton Divison they killed so they could hold onto the technology.
Ok, fine.
You would think that the e-mate 300's translucent case and handle wouldn't be worth more than $50 mil they were offered for the Newton division.
Its amazing the quality of Apple's technology transfer, and Mr. Jobs ability to sell ice cubes to penguins.
If you want something "fruity", buy something fruity.
If you don't, don't.
What's the problem?
You can always buy a nice, sleek, slim, black, fancy brand spanking new PowerBook that kicks ass. That's for the professionals. The iBook is for the consumers.
Please.. your point?
-cabel
So wait, $1700-$2400 is cheap ?? Well, then, take a look at the iBook's specs, all for $1599. It's got a fast, 300 MHz G3 processor, which will out perform any PC portable. The case is made of polycarbonate plastic, which is used in construction of bullet proof vests, so the iBook will take a beating too. And there are many other quality things to make note of, but you can find them all on Apple's website.
So as far as I see it, the iBook is another impressive machine from a company that had a reputation for making slower machines, that cost more...and it is neither slow nor comparatively expensive.
Last I heard, Apple had a 13.5% share of the market, and that was around Macworld Expo in January. It's probably closer to 19-20% now.
The one and (thankfully) only,
LafinJack
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
Any officer caught sniffing the saddle of the exercise bicycle in the women's gym will be discharged without trial.
Killing spammers is too good for them.
OpenGL hardware and software support is already there for the Mac. Please see http://www.apple.com/opengl
Just because it doesn't bash your platform doesn't make misinformative FUD a good thing.
I was making what I consider to be a valid point about user interface design! Are Mac users really so hypersensitive that they won't tolerate any opinion that might be construed as contradicting the gospel of Apple? So much for "Think Different"!
fish and pipes
This is a sweet machine, I am definatly getting one as soon as possible.
The wireless is great, getting 83k/sec on a download.
-Pfhor
(hopefully first to post from the iBook)
Yeah, okay. Perhaps I was a little more colourful (excuse the pun) with my language than I should have been. Its been a long... erm.. month. Anyway, my point stands and I'm glad you agree. Its nasty. Its so in your face its ridiculous. And it'll sell like hotcakes. There a whole bunch of people out there with absoloutely no taste whatsoever... ;)
how many do you want?
I LOVE the airport....finally looks like we can get a reliable wireless ethernet. And the fact that it supports multiple computers...equally cool. Heh....Quake party on the deck :).
But these colors.....ugh....enough....i would be embarrassed to pull an orange laptop out at a metting. And the shape resembles one of those "kiddie" computers that plays word games and stuff.
Please, apple. Give us Airport in a grey or black stardard shape laptop.
-mark
If your computer says LINUX, run...computers can't talk! [unless you have text-speech software]
sorry, RAM is expandable to *128MB* NOT 264...
Actually, it has one SODIMM slot which can take a 128MB module for a total of 160MB. It is possible in the future that there will be a 256MB module that will phisically fit in the available space, which would make for a maximum of 288MB.
"Remember, there never were pineapple-almond cookies here."
The colors aren't that great.
The white will get dirty quickly, especially if that's the rubber-covered portion. I suspect it is, in order to provide a gripping surface, since the polycarbonate is probably pretty slippery.
The tangerine one looks like a prescription bottle.
Okay, I get it now! The design of the iBook assumes that all non-geeks are color-blind, and thus will find the iBook tolerable. That way, geeks can spot the wannabes coming a mile away.
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
What am I getting with this new iBook? A flashy case? And the potential for wireless connectivity. Fine, that's great, but I bought a crappy little CTX EzBook 20 months ago with damn near the same specs ('cept the processor) for $300 less. And that was 20 months ago. (I think I saw my model on one of those liquidation sites for $700 or so last week...)
I really like the stylistic direction Apple is going with the whole iMac/iBook line, but jeeeeez, give me something I can work with here. I will admit that the AirPort thingy is a really cool feature, but who cares if the rest of the machine is a lemon?
I work in an office that is almost entirely Mac-based (the lone P133 in the corner is only used by the financial guy). We just got one of the latest PowerBooks for use at presentations; we've been updating to the new G3s over the last few months, all because we like the image of the new translucent machines. We would probably get one of these iBooks -- except it sucks wind. Can't (AFAICT) plug the LCD projector into it. Can't even plug it into a TV. Does this thing have audio capabilities? (Don't remember any mention of that all-important item... You want to play your games with sound, right?)
All-in-all, I would have to say that Steve Jobs has been doing a wonderful marketing campaign, but he really needs to ask consumers what they want. Selling crippled machines with little or no chance of upgradability is one track; the rest of the world is headed along a different one.
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
Yeah, this version of the PowerBook [333 and 400MHz models] have been out since may. The 333 model has 512K L2 backside cache, the 400 has 1MB L2 backside [both on-chip]. The iBook is new and has a 300MHz G3 [actually a 333, reduced for power savings], will come in all 5 iMac colors, ready for 11Mb/sec wireless networking [Apple/Lucent] and does include a 24X CD-ROM, contrary to popular belief. Rumor has it that Apple will soon [this week] introduce 433 and 450MHz models of the PowerBook, and after the initial introduction of this iBook, they may have a faster model with more base RAM [which is upgradeable to 160MB]. And yes, the PowerBooks run LinuxPPC R5 1999 very well. From what I understand, much of the development was done on a PowerBook.
Also, for the guy that mentioned he had no configuration options w/ a new PowerBook...Apple will soon have customizable configurations on the Apple Store. BYOPB man.
The floppy drive has gone the way of the 8-track... live with it.
How is it a culture that prides itself on non-conventional piercings, extremely casual clothing (or even no clothing, if you read Po Bronson's book) and non-traditional offices decides to get all conservative when it comes to industrial design? If possible, technology should look good and not always look so "serious". The machine will probably not appeal to those who use tech as penis extenders, but that's not necessarily a bad thing -- the drive to making machines look serious and initimidating is probably a good chunk of what keeps women out of the field (women do have the ability to hack, many just have little time for this macho nonsense).
I do cross-platform development on reasonably inexpensive laptops (my own little company, with fairly sizable clients) and I figure I'll be doing my REALBasic, Director/Flash and CodeWarrior stuff on a new iBook soon.
As for id10ts -- yes, it's for id10ts, but realise that they're your moms. Your dads. Your brothers and sisters, boyfriends, girlfriends, and everyone else who isn't a developer or doesn't know their greps from their seds from their awks (and really shouldn't have to). My mom may fall under the category of id10t, but only because she's not a hacker and sometimes finds Windows confusing. However, she's also the Chief of Cardiology at a major hospital in Toronto, and given the sedentary lifestyle of many hackers, may save a geek or two from the bug dev/null in the sky. Strange id10cy, that.
These id10ts are our users. They're the people for whom we write software, and who will hopefully pay us the big bucks. There are a lot of dumb ones out there, but there are also a lot of smart ones, who couldn't give a rat's ass about processes, threads, piping commands, and all the switches for ls or dir, and good for them. If we develop software they can't understand, it's our own fault. Let's ditch this user-hating "high priesthood" mentality, shall we?
Since when is a critical analysis of the features flamebait?
Is obviously a kid aged 16-20. From the website:
"The iBook has a tough polycarbonate body built to withstand life in a backpack-and no doors or latches to break."
also they say:
"Great for surfing the Internet, whipping out homework assignments, sending and receiving email, or beating the daylights out of friends at multiplayer games"
Not to mention that they pretty much assume that their customer is an idiot. Who doesn't know what a jack is:
"Because however well designed your home or dorm is, chances are your jacks-those little holes in the wall you plug your phone line into-are in the wrong place, or in not enough of the right places to be really convenient."
Sorry, I don't buy products that are designed from the ground up to assume I'm an idiot.Besides they look just plain silly.
My sig has a broken link in it.
Wouldn't it be faster and cheaper to just write "beat the crap out of me, I'm a dickhead" on their back? ;)
forget sheepshaver-- there is already a similar, and more open, project already further along by the name of "mac-on-linux".
http://www.ibrium.se/linux/mac_on_linux.html
at the moment it already boots and runs macos within a little hardware abstraction thing.
Would you please stop bringing Be in everutime.
Be is just pissed off at Apple because they bought NeXT instead of Be... The Be OS is not that a great thing, they adopted a lot of old technology for something brand new...
Be was laughing at Apple and pushing them and was targetting the same market as Apple on the same hardware... what did you expect... for Apple to help them the best they could so Be would become a good multimedia platform? Come on.. this is where Apple gets it's highest revenues..
And as far as I know... LinuxPPC runs fine on G3s... So does Darwin... So I don't see what Be's problem really is except that they have an urge to bitch at Apple to get some frustration off their poor little baby hearts..
The iBook is a great machine for a fair price... Stop worrying that much about OSes.. as long as it is not from MS and that you can get your work done.. the rest is not that important... of course if it is open Source it is just better...
Hey wait a minute! Be is not open source!!...
You are just complaining because you got brainwashed
I *do* like the optional wireless device however. Hopefully PC laptops will start providing a similar option.
The point is, you knob, that I don't want to pay $3600 for a new powerbook - that's over priced. How about an aesthetically pleasing consumer portable that looks good as well and is half of the new PBs? Is that too much to ask for? Do I have to have kiddy-oriented toys (including the G3 towers) as my only option or do I have to gut it and put it in a good looking case?
It's all about choice..how about a non-fruity choice?
Linux has a powerful command line with a shaky GUI on top, Win* has a big ol GUI without any command line functionality (really, a DOS window?), and Mac just plain ol' doesn't have one. Funny that when you get the Mac developer's kit, part of it is a bash shell. The only OS (asfarasIcansee) which has both is, *tada* BeOS! Oh well.
Wah!
It has wireless networking that looks awesome and it has a 2x AGP slot that wasn't supposed to come out until the G4s later this year. Although I wouldn't have chosen the "tangerine" flavor, which was actually the worst selling flavor of the iMacs.
-HumanSmoke
Will it run OpenBSD?
--Corey
Not only will they not deserve liberty or safety, Mr. Franklin, they will be DENIED both!
Although the iBook may seem like a consumer portable, I'm thinking that it might be best for schools.
Imagine this:
a school where each kid gets one of these iBooks for the school year.
Every 150 feet of the school has an Airport access point.
Sounds like the perfect learning environment. Internet access, powerful computer, and students who grow up Internet-savvy.
Think about that battery life for a second. 10 hours is just right for a school. Besides, Apple has traditionally been strong in schools anyways.
-Riskable
"Those who choose proprietary software will pay for their decision!"
If it is "open" then why won't they give Be the info they need to port BeOS to the new G3s? I don't see how it could be fear of competition because (and correct me here if I am wrong) they gave that very same information to the LinuxPPC people.
Don't get me wrong, I work on a Mac and I really like it. I just wish there were more options.
(And I really wish Jobs had not decided at the last minute to yank the theme functionality out of MacOS so I wouldn't have to shell out $25 to use Kaleidoscope (which is well worth the money)...)
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp