And what if there's an update? When will the AV distinguish between *real* updates and *virus* updates to recalculate the checksum? Life's a bitch, isn't it?
Be glad you added "Most" to your sentence, or this Ubuntu user would BUST YOUR ASS.
But, really, I get what you mean; yet, it isn't just Ubuntu users that are idiots, it's the new wave of Linux users that hang around forums saying: "Why 1s my L1neks so not cool like like a windows I know it can be cool but a windows virus and linkx not ubuntu good!"
And fortunately, you are not the only one. I may be against many of his arguments and crazy thought and I've personally changed emails with him trying to get some sense out of what he thinks, but I know that nearly everything I fight for in my town -- the Free Software Movement, Take 2 -- I owe to him. And if I'm asked who was the greatest & most important figure of our Software days, I'd gladly say that Stallman is the man. But, what the hell, I'm just a sixteen teen.
Actually, no, but I'm just getting tired of all the "google is here and there" crap. Do I use Google in a gogol different ways? You bet, and I love it -- and I support it -- but it saddens me to see that good news are left out and replaced by what we can always predict.
No matter what Google does, it turns up on Slashdot! What if Google decided to let one out -- would it feature/.? Anyway, I'm really glad they're doing this, since I'm one of their Google Docs fans -- It simply puts the cloud in my computing!
Yes, I understand your point of view and much agree with it! However, we seem to be talking about different things: You are talking about attracting users that come to Linux because they see it as a good alternative, by pondering the situation carefully. From what I understood, they (family) already knew what Linux was, at least in comparison to other OSes. Now I was talking about attracting users who simply do not even know what an Operating System is. Attracting users that can't even find out that double-clicking isn't used in the same situations as clicking.
As an addition, I do find it extremely valuable to make a choice and I see what you magnificently describe as "someone around who can assist this way" as an extremely valuable property of 'the Linux world'. I do, however, think that such a degree of divergence is not useful for those who do not want to care about the underlying platform that they are developing for, so I think there are two alternatives:
1. Standardize one of the alternatives, as it doesn't make much sense to me to provide wrappers from API A to B if the decision is to develop with API B but use API A in the end. B->B-A-Wrapper->A -- Look at that!
2. Create wrapper libraries that take care of this decision. This choice seems the appropriate choice for me, but I don't see it *that* often. Sure it pops up here and there, but people don't say: Develop for the Wrapper API! Why? Sure, there's an extra level of abstraction, which can mildly hit performance, but is it really worth it? Take sound, for instance, it's one of the things that frustrates me the most: It's two-thousand-fucking-ten and Linux still has issues with the correct audio API to use and the correct system. Why? Because there's the lack of a distro-pattern. But things are, fortunately, getting better! With ALSA seeming to be considered de-facto now, and Pulse being improved and adopted, with more card drivers being added. But, again, it's 2010 and this is an important function that an OS needs to properly have to attract its users.
"Current choices ARE stable enough to be used."
As for that, you are quite right, whereas I didn't seem to support that opinion in my previous writings. There is a good-enough degree of stability, I would say, but it notoriously isn't enough yet. Nowadays I have a "write-three-words-save" syndrome with OpenOffice because it often crashes when editing formulas. I once lost an 8-page work because I was stupid enough not to save --'.
Another issue with our current choices is, again, the fact that, with different interfaces and options, we are not connecting enough to users who lack many computer skills. Take....my mother, for instance. She can't even distinguish closing a window from minimizing. Now when I put my Linux PC in front of her, she's gotten used to the interface and she already knows where things are and what each thing does. Now my friend pops up with his fancy KDE/Gnome (irrelevant for the issue) desktop and my mother gets lost. You may argue that Windows/Mac users can also personalize their desktop. Sure they can, but who does it? Is it these users who lack skills? Or is it the users that have more skills and that can handle the additional change? From my point of view (once again, I speak for myself), this is what we need if we want to attract/these/ users. You may also argue that, to get used to the transition, we can help these users, because that's part of the "spirit of Free Software". Sure we can, but will there be enough of us? However, this seems to be a good counter-argument for my thesis;)
Once again, I fully agree with most of what you said!
Nope, I use all of that, well, not xfce, but I use or have used most of that. What I say in my blog is simply that the community nowadays seems to be all about competition, whereas I think that we should promote the standardization of these competitors. When I mention Firefox, OpenOffice and all the others, I am criticizing those who constantly bash these applications just because they are, in/their/ words, "Incomplete", "Bloated", "not match for proprietary-counterpart-X". This is what I believe must be done. We need to pick one piece of Software and standardize it. Note that I am not saying that we should drop the others -- Not at all! But if, and only if, we want to attract users, we first have to create something that they can universally recognize and interact with. Something that isn't buggy. Something that has been extensively tested on various distros. If we attract users with this standardization (keeping the other options out there, of course), we can then start the reverse process, by slowly going back to the less-standardized world because, at that point, these users will have learned how to actually use Linux/Unix and will be able to cope with the change. By doing so, we will firstly partially give up our chance to have multi options (be it whatever option, I didn't take many sides in my article), but after that, we'll get it back with even more users that can help the community stop criticizing the others.
I may not have made that clear, though. Do you speak Portuguese? Or did you simply think that that article was: "KDE is good; gnome is bad", "Pulseaudio sucks", "OSS is superior"? If you did, sorry, that was not my point -- it was the exact opposite. As a side note, I am running Ubuntu 9.10 with OpenBox, fbpanel, PCManFM (and Nautilus), as well as nm-applet and my own little widgets and 'services' that make this a good experience. However, I had been using Gnome until I decided to switch.;)
Re:http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/opent
on
OpenTTD 1.0.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
I haven't checked, but have you tried all the options? There are options to change the scrolling and move it to a right click, as well as a left click, IIRC.
I would slap you three times in the face if I could. Shut up, please. It is not Simcity and it will not be. Of course, you only said it "looks like", but idiot people might read that and think "Oh, hey, nice, SIMCITY!!!1onish". Then they'll go to the forums and ask how to build buildings...
The AI is far better. There is a new AI API written in Squirrel that allows anyone to code their own AI. There are around 20 AIs currently. Some are more competitive than others, but for the average player this AI kicks ass. OpenTTD has had, AFAIK, three AIs. The original, then the test-rewrite which added a car-only AI and, lastly, this new and fantastic attempt at a Free AI API. Sure, some AI programmers write stupid AIs, but I've been playing the game since it came out back in 2004 and it's been incredible.
Oh, and it's not just about the trains. Believe it or not, I'm one of the idiots (yeah...) who don't particularly like trains; I appreciate road vehicles, those are incredible. Sometimes I get games with 2k vehicles, and there are people who have *far* more than that.
In short: Just try it out and see for yourself, because this Game is Free as in Free Speech, and easy (really) to setup.
Yet it isn't as simple as you put it. Linux is part of the heart of Open-Source, because the Open-Source movement as we know it has deep roots in Linux's development, no matter what Free Software had already been developed then by "Stallman's folks". Linux is sort of an important symbol. Let's face, until Open-Source is *really* taken seriously, Linux is nearly a must-have if a project is going to use the term open-source with a positive connotation. All Linux users know Open-Source (current and past users), can you say the same about Windows users? You can't, but they bring in more money...
"Also at least acrobat (and I think other pdf readers too) installs browser plugins as standard so there is NO WARNING when a web page opens a pdf. This means that acrobat like flash has exposed itself to any website the user visits and therefore needs to be held to the same standards as the web browser itself."
Then teach people not to install such hideous software.
You are right, I hadn't thought of such an example! Though I'd really always stick to PDF or ODF;). In those legitimate cases, one can only hope that the idiots (once again, notice this word) who wrote the standard wrote it incely and in a safe way. It can't be safe if it's not thought safe.
I'm not sure, but I'd say it works pretty much the same way, it just runs the code (with or without a confirmation dialog). Like any other exploit/unwanted-feature, the pseudo-hacker must know what he/she is targeting.
Or, for once, learn how to open documents sent from SECURE SOURCES. What's all the fuzz with idiot people reading documents sent by evil-idiots? Just teach people about distinguishing between good and bad "software", as it is possible to teach them to distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' words. Sure secure apps matter, but security mustn't be taken for granted and, thus, we should be educated about it. Ditto.
Slashdot Mirror
Sir, if I had mod points, I would hand them all to you.
And what if there's an update? When will the AV distinguish between *real* updates and *virus* updates to recalculate the checksum? Life's a bitch, isn't it?
McAfee have a lot to answer for? Spare me! They only want the money, and they'll fuck whoever they have to to get it.
Cowboy Neal does, you insensitive clod!
Be glad you added "Most" to your sentence, or this Ubuntu user would BUST YOUR ASS.
But, really, I get what you mean; yet, it isn't just Ubuntu users that are idiots, it's the new wave of Linux users that hang around forums saying: "Why 1s my L1neks so not cool like like a windows I know it can be cool but a windows virus and linkx not ubuntu good!"
Idiots, those users.
According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/GEMLeak , then you ARE SAFE!!
And fortunately, you are not the only one. I may be against many of his arguments and crazy thought and I've personally changed emails with him trying to get some sense out of what he thinks, but I know that nearly everything I fight for in my town -- the Free Software Movement, Take 2 -- I owe to him. And if I'm asked who was the greatest & most important figure of our Software days, I'd gladly say that Stallman is the man. But, what the hell, I'm just a sixteen teen.
Actually, no, but I'm just getting tired of all the "google is here and there" crap. Do I use Google in a gogol different ways? You bet, and I love it -- and I support it -- but it saddens me to see that good news are left out and replaced by what we can always predict.
No matter what Google does, it turns up on Slashdot! What if Google decided to let one out -- would it feature /.?
Anyway, I'm really glad they're doing this, since I'm one of their Google Docs fans -- It simply puts the cloud in my computing!
Yes, I understand your point of view and much agree with it! However, we seem to be talking about different things:
/these/ users. ;)
You are talking about attracting users that come to Linux because they see it as a good alternative, by pondering the situation carefully. From what I understood, they (family) already knew what Linux was, at least in comparison to other OSes.
Now I was talking about attracting users who simply do not even know what an Operating System is. Attracting users that can't even find out that double-clicking isn't used in the same situations as clicking.
As an addition, I do find it extremely valuable to make a choice and I see what you magnificently describe as "someone around who can assist this way" as an extremely valuable property of 'the Linux world'. I do, however, think that such a degree of divergence is not useful for those who do not want to care about the underlying platform that they are developing for, so I think there are two alternatives:
1. Standardize one of the alternatives, as it doesn't make much sense to me to provide wrappers from API A to B if the decision is to develop with API B but use API A in the end. B->B-A-Wrapper->A -- Look at that!
2. Create wrapper libraries that take care of this decision. This choice seems the appropriate choice for me, but I don't see it *that* often. Sure it pops up here and there, but people don't say: Develop for the Wrapper API! Why? Sure, there's an extra level of abstraction, which can mildly hit performance, but is it really worth it? Take sound, for instance, it's one of the things that frustrates me the most: It's two-thousand-fucking-ten and Linux still has issues with the correct audio API to use and the correct system. Why? Because there's the lack of a distro-pattern. But things are, fortunately, getting better! With ALSA seeming to be considered de-facto now, and Pulse being improved and adopted, with more card drivers being added. But, again, it's 2010 and this is an important function that an OS needs to properly have to attract its users.
"Current choices ARE stable enough to be used."
As for that, you are quite right, whereas I didn't seem to support that opinion in my previous writings. There is a good-enough degree of stability, I would say, but it notoriously isn't enough yet. Nowadays I have a "write-three-words-save" syndrome with OpenOffice because it often crashes when editing formulas. I once lost an 8-page work because I was stupid enough not to save --'.
Another issue with our current choices is, again, the fact that, with different interfaces and options, we are not connecting enough to users who lack many computer skills. Take....my mother, for instance. She can't even distinguish closing a window from minimizing. Now when I put my Linux PC in front of her, she's gotten used to the interface and she already knows where things are and what each thing does. Now my friend pops up with his fancy KDE/Gnome (irrelevant for the issue) desktop and my mother gets lost.
You may argue that Windows/Mac users can also personalize their desktop. Sure they can, but who does it? Is it these users who lack skills? Or is it the users that have more skills and that can handle the additional change? From my point of view (once again, I speak for myself), this is what we need if we want to attract
You may also argue that, to get used to the transition, we can help these users, because that's part of the "spirit of Free Software". Sure we can, but will there be enough of us? However, this seems to be a good counter-argument for my thesis
Once again, I fully agree with most of what you said!
Nope, I use all of that, well, not xfce, but I use or have used most of that. What I say in my blog is simply that the community nowadays seems to be all about competition, whereas I think that we should promote the standardization of these competitors. When I mention Firefox, OpenOffice and all the others, I am criticizing those who constantly bash these applications just because they are, in /their/ words, "Incomplete", "Bloated", "not match for proprietary-counterpart-X". This is what I believe must be done. We need to pick one piece of Software and standardize it. Note that I am not saying that we should drop the others -- Not at all! But if, and only if, we want to attract users, we first have to create something that they can universally recognize and interact with. Something that isn't buggy. Something that has been extensively tested on various distros. If we attract users with this standardization (keeping the other options out there, of course), we can then start the reverse process, by slowly going back to the less-standardized world because, at that point, these users will have learned how to actually use Linux/Unix and will be able to cope with the change. By doing so, we will firstly partially give up our chance to have multi options (be it whatever option, I didn't take many sides in my article), but after that, we'll get it back with even more users that can help the community stop criticizing the others.
;)
I may not have made that clear, though. Do you speak Portuguese? Or did you simply think that that article was: "KDE is good; gnome is bad", "Pulseaudio sucks", "OSS is superior"? If you did, sorry, that was not my point -- it was the exact opposite.
As a side note, I am running Ubuntu 9.10 with OpenBox, fbpanel, PCManFM (and Nautilus), as well as nm-applet and my own little widgets and 'services' that make this a good experience. However, I had been using Gnome until I decided to switch.
Sadly Linux is still stagnated and more users can lead to more stagnation, as I clarify in Portuguese: http://jorl17.blogspot.com/2010/04/linux-uma-causa-perdida.html
Of course that's my view.
They asked Chuck Norris to do it.
I haven't checked, but have you tried all the options? There are options to change the scrolling and move it to a right click, as well as a left click, IIRC.
I would slap you three times in the face if I could. Shut up, please. It is not Simcity and it will not be. Of course, you only said it "looks like", but idiot people might read that and think "Oh, hey, nice, SIMCITY!!!1onish". Then they'll go to the forums and ask how to build buildings...
The AI is far better. There is a new AI API written in Squirrel that allows anyone to code their own AI. There are around 20 AIs currently. Some are more competitive than others, but for the average player this AI kicks ass. OpenTTD has had, AFAIK, three AIs. The original, then the test-rewrite which added a car-only AI and, lastly, this new and fantastic attempt at a Free AI API. Sure, some AI programmers write stupid AIs, but I've been playing the game since it came out back in 2004 and it's been incredible.
Oh, and it's not just about the trains. Believe it or not, I'm one of the idiots (yeah...) who don't particularly like trains; I appreciate road vehicles, those are incredible. Sometimes I get games with 2k vehicles, and there are people who have *far* more than that.
In short: Just try it out and see for yourself, because this Game is Free as in Free Speech, and easy (really) to setup.
Yes, that's also true.
Yet it isn't as simple as you put it. Linux is part of the heart of Open-Source, because the Open-Source movement as we know it has deep roots in Linux's development, no matter what Free Software had already been developed then by "Stallman's folks". Linux is sort of an important symbol. Let's face, until Open-Source is *really* taken seriously, Linux is nearly a must-have if a project is going to use the term open-source with a positive connotation. All Linux users know Open-Source (current and past users), can you say the same about Windows users? You can't, but they bring in more money...
"Also at least acrobat (and I think other pdf readers too) installs browser plugins as standard so there is NO WARNING when a web page opens a pdf. This means that acrobat like flash has exposed itself to any website the user visits and therefore needs to be held to the same standards as the web browser itself."
Then teach people not to install such hideous software.
You are right, I hadn't thought of such an example! Though I'd really always stick to PDF or ODF ;). In those legitimate cases, one can only hope that the idiots (once again, notice this word) who wrote the standard wrote it incely and in a safe way. It can't be safe if it's not thought safe.
I'm not sure, but I'd say it works pretty much the same way, it just runs the code (with or without a confirmation dialog). Like any other exploit/unwanted-feature, the pseudo-hacker must know what he/she is targeting.
Or, for once, learn how to open documents sent from SECURE SOURCES. What's all the fuzz with idiot people reading documents sent by evil-idiots? Just teach people about distinguishing between good and bad "software", as it is possible to teach them to distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' words. Sure secure apps matter, but security mustn't be taken for granted and, thus, we should be educated about it.
Ditto.
The royal weee? Last time I heard that it was when the Queen decided to pee. That was a royal wee.
;)
Reddish bananas fly across my bellybutton.
I just love that challenge.
I do, and so should you.