I don't see a GUI shell on a JVM being a Web technology. Except that the GUI and JVM could be remote from each other, transparently. Mainly I'm interested in a GUI shell to an OS and a complete machine, distributed or not. That's not really the "Web", though it could be the "Internet".
I'm especially interested in a mobile platform that works this way, so Android - which is an OS dedicated to running a JVM.
I'd like to use a fully dynamic GUI markup format like HTML5 for presentation, Java classes for computation and data management, and all the existing platforms, libraries, code in repos and tools supporting them for application development. I think an environment that's Javascript for interactive programming, Java for compiled heavy lifting, HTML5 for presentation would be very flexible yet highly specific in application. It would be the modern revision to ksh/C/printf, inherently networked, on JVM instead of C/Unix VM.
I suppose the missing piece would be Sqlite, if it were better integrated to server-side full SQL (explicit JOINs, Java/script stored procedures, etc), corresponding to ksh/C/printf's dbm. Just as Javascript is the dynamic/interactive control language for interfacing HTML5 to Java, Sqlite could be the lightweight data metamodel gluing full SQL to HTML5 local storage.
With that platform (HTML5/Javascript/JVM/Java/Sqlite), there'd be as little difference between "the Web", a local app, and "the Internet" as there is in C/Unix between domain sockets and remote sockets, or as there is on (properly used) X between distributed client/server and both on localhost. So "the Web" would go away as a distinction. Which, especially for mobile use, is essential given the continuing unreliability and diversity of networks and other hardware in use during a single session or across multiple ones by the same user for a continuing purpose.
So it does matter what Oracle does. Because it matters how Oracle's new JVM implements Javascript support, since it's the most common JVM in use. And because Oracle's JVM sets the context for what Google does with Dalvik for all the Android devices rapidly eclipsing (pun not intended, but realized and approved:). the rest of the JVM instances. Especially in the context of Oracle's existential lawsuits against Google's Android. The support in each (and, preferably, the same in both) of those defining JVMs will determine whether "Web 3.0" has a platform like the one I described.
But, probably at least as important to me, is whether I get that platform. I've been waiting for it instead of a VT100 XTerm for over 10 years, ever since a "Netscape GUI CLI" plugin appeared briefly and then disappeared.
Oracle is making announcements about Java 7 and 8 this week. Supposedly the new stuff is better integration between Java and HTML5, and between Javascript and the JVM.
Will that revised tech be good support for an interactive user shell with a Javascript commandline calling Java objects, reporting back HTML5 in a DOM? Interactive HTML5 GUI objects that can take GUI events back into Javascript logic or just Javascript glue to Java objects in the JVM?
Will Android's Dalvik JVM follow that route, or take its own route to that architecture?
Some people are listening. I was out in Zuccatti Park last week, and there were at least 15,000 people there with me.
But not enough. Across America, the same people who voted for Phil Gramm (whose Gramm-Leach-Bliley deregulatede the post-Depression banking protections), who voted for Bush/Cheney twice, who voted Republicans a House majority in 2010 and likely will again in 2012, who will vote for Romney or his standin - those people are parroting the lines that OccupyWallStreet people are "trying to destroy jobs", that it's their fault they're not rich, whatever the Koch brothers society PR think tanks have cooked up for them to squawk. It's those people's refusal to listen to anything but poison, refusal to think, that protects the thieves every decade when they come around - and get away.
But Occupy[WallStreet] is different. I haven't heard of such largely spontaneous demonstrations against the corporate/financial tyrants since at latest the 1940s. Certainly never the main point of such large public demonstrations. And I've even seen some sympathetic reporting among the corporate mass media, surprisingly enough including Disney/ABC. It might not be nearly enough. But it's different. That change in momentum is the signal to do more to support it.
You should go to a nearby OccupyX rally if you can. Or send some sandwiches or sleeping bags. Maybe it'll matter. But if we don't with this time we have, it surely won't matter.
Nothing pains the balls as much as being fined your share of the rulebreaking losses. Which should exceed the annual pay.
Unless it's being fined and fired, which implants the pain instrument in the balls. Better yet, fined, fired, and convicted of a crime. That'll put "balls pain" right at the top of your resume.
The most important part is where the government stops collecting taxes, guaranteeing that even agencies with oversight orders and staffing budgets are underfunded and so understaffed. It helps even more to block the appointment of top managers in the agencies, so the whole office is crippled, overburdened, and unfocused without a leader.
Guess who is responsible for undertaxing and blocking agency appointments? Don't strain - it's the Republicans, and maybe enough fellow "Conservatives" in the Democratic Party to muddy the waters.
The solution is to tax businesses, like the financial business, enough to cover their costs to the public in protecting us from their bad work. Who's going to stop a 0.05% tax on financial transactions, as is now applied in the EU? The Republicans/Conservatives, of course.
No, the logic of that post is perfectly clear. Someone says bank CEOs screwing up hurts everyone but those CEOs. Like people who have lost jobs, or can't get one, after bank CEO screwups destroyed the economy's growth, and the jobs with it. Herman Cain says it's the jobless person's own fault for not having a job - and even their own fault they're not rich. The contrast is that Cain says it isn't the bank CEO's fault people don't have jobs, it's their own fault.
But that's obvious. Except perhaps to a Republican, er "Libertarian", like you. Who spent the entire Bush era telling us Chewbacca was on Endor whenever people complained that deregulation was killing us.
Actually, what Cain said yesterday was "Don't blame Wall Street, don't blame the big banks, if you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself."
While it's arguable that not having a job is a person's own fault (a losing argument with the economy, but arguable), saying it's the fault of everyone not rich that they're not rich isn't just insane. It's the kind of institutional insanity that is driving the country into nothing but the madhouse, with a corporatocracy of Cains at the wheel.
Blame the player, too. They don't have to play that blameworthy game. In fact, banks as big and influential as UBS are the best positioned to change the game. During the past few years since UBS helped crash the world's economies, UBS has been playing the same game as the other banks in keeping the same reckless risk game running, interfering with efforts to regulate the game. Instead it could have helped regulate the game in a way that let it do legitimate business without overwhelming competition from banks that do illegitimate business.
UBS is to blame for keeping the game going when it had its best chance in generations to change it.
UBS and the rest of its banking industry crippled the global economy by doing exactly this: IT systems and business rules showed unsupportable risks were being executed by their traders, but the execs did nothing to stop or slow it.
Something like 2-10 $TRILLION in losses later, after years of the worst recession possible since the reforms installed after the Great Depression, UBS hasn't changed. There is no reason to believe any of these banks have changed, since they all act the same way to compete with each other: ignore risk, because they're too big to (be allowed to) fail.
UBS should forfeit every penny of the public money given it to bail it out. And face the stiffest penalties possible under the laws we now have. And cause new laws to be passed that actually prevent, not just promise to punish after the fact, this reckless risktaking - with frequent audits and financial requirements to continue operating. Once slamming UBS is up and running, that government office should go after the rest of the banks that are surely guilty too.
Now that meltdowns are becoming familiar to people, you're pooh-poohing "the occasional nuclear meltdown". How far you nuke fetishists have sunk from the "nothing bad will ever happen" days, when the lies were simpler. "Too cheap to measure", right? Good times.
Thank you for confessing you find nuking 30% of Japan perfectly tolerable. And for calling me a socialist ideologue for pointing out that nukes make rich people richer. And for the typical nuke fetishist absolutism that without nukes, there is no energy.
That's because the news in this article is actually for geeks, not just news for nerds. The front page story is collapsed to nothing but a geeky headline, so there's a barrier to entry Slashdot doesn't usually offer.
Mr Shatner, if I were an alien, I'd have seen all the original Star Trek episodes you starred in (maybe I am an alien:). If aliens were to contact any individual human, if they're like me they might pick you, since you were adept at dealing with (our idea of) them. Your best friend was half alien (I leave it to the reader to decide which half;), you cooperated with the best of them and bested the worst of them, and you always let them bring out the most human in you.
So: have any real aliens ever contacted you? If not, do you think there out there - or maybe even here among us?
In the last 30 years, we had the 1980s Savings & Loan heist under deregulation, the 1992 recession under more deregulation, the 1999.com bubble and crash under further deregulation, and the 2006-2011 mortgage bubble crash under the most extreme deregulation. Not to mention the many stock market crashes and bailouts outside those bottoms, like Long Term Capital and several market halts under Clinton. All enabled by deregulation.
There are likewise plenty of "incidents" at nuke plants. The Indian Point plant just a couple dozen miles upstream from NYC routinely leaks tritium into groundwater - and that's just what they admit.
There is nothing that is "perfectly safe". Nukes are the kind of thing that, when not "perfectly safe", periodically will cause intolerable damage. Since they, like anything else, will never be "perfectly safe", they can be counted on for periodic intolerable damage.
A self-respecting society that learns from its regular mistakes would outlaw these reckless risks. Instead the richest people build their wealth on it, and among the rest of us they can count on enough of us to explain it all away. Relying on amnesia has been paying off pretty reliably.
Of course they all seem to agree. That's the main reason Japan is in this position: dissent against the official "nukes are the only way" has never been taken seriously there, even less than in many other countries with nukes.
Why wouldn't the Japanese government reopen these areas to residents? The government obviously doesn't care one bit about the health or safety of those people. Or anyone else in Japan - the people near Fukushima aren't being singled out.
Or, for that matter, anyone else. America's government isn't doing anything more to protect us, even as several nuke plants were threatened to within a hair of their design specs (or beyond) this Summer, by floods and by earthquakes.
The heroic sacrifice of workers to entomb Chernobyl in 1986 at tremendous loss of life, health and everything else really starts to make the demonized Soviet government look pretty good in comparison.
I am very pleased that my post gave you two an excuse to discuss this subject so informedly and insightfully. Thanks for sharing it with me - and with us:).
Will Sprint know that I've rooted my phone? How about if I enable WiFi hotspot on an unlimited data 4G phone... other than by auditing my total consumption and inferring? If they do guess, will I have violated some contract, or even just given them an excuse to cancel my contract?
If not, it seems there's practically nothing to lose except the HTC SenseUI, which seems worth losing. And in its absence, perhaps inspiration to write a different GUI shell myself, or with others.
So which rooted firmware would you install on an HTC Evo Shift 4G, that would still run every app in the Android Market (and probably any other app, including ones I make myself with the SDK)? I really don't love the HTC Sense "desktop", but I don't want to live in some fork where every app I install has me second-guessing the firmware choice. And I certainly don't want to live with HTC's attacks like this one - which is a sign of things to come from HTC.
So which rooted firmware would you install on an HTC Evo Shift 4G, that would still run every app in the Android Market (and probably any other app, including ones I make myself with the SDK)? I really don't love the HTC Sense "desktop", but I don't want to live in some fork where every app I install has me second-guessing the firmware choice. And I certainly don't want to live with HTC's attacks like this one - which is a sign of things to come from HTC.
Is there at least a grid or DB somewhere of phones vs firmwares that indicates which OEM features are covered, and perhaps by which optional replacement? I thought phone fans were obsessive about collecting those kinds of details about the objects of their fetish.
I'm asking the people reading this specific discussion, many of whom actually know something. Which is what real people do when having a conversation: ask each other for insights.
Unlike you, Anonymous idiot Coward, who has nothing to offer. What a loser you are that you think you're funny offering some lame old joke link. Why not offer some goatsex instead? Twit.
There's not going to be a way to disable a permission without the app that tries to get it noticing that it's disabled, when that app tries to exercise that permission and the function fails. But so what? We should be able to deny the permission in the OS, but still install the app that wants the permission. Then that function will fail. And the app will either not do what we want, in which case we'll either keep it or not, either give the permission or not, either contact the app distributor/author or not.
This prerogative in the OS seems exactly what we want from an OS: let us manage apps, even at runtime, without just letting them do whatever they want. In fact it's how firewall apps patched into an OS work: an app might try to access the network, but the OS (as configured by the user) sets what the app has permission to access. It doesn't require any support from the app for that permissioning.
It's time for an "IPC firewall" management tool in Android. It should really be part of Android. But maybe a 3rd party developer can put one out there. It's definitely worth $5, if it works.
I have Terminal Emulator. I cd to/system/app , and ls tells me there's no HTCLoggers.apk . Is it hidden somehow? I think the phone is up to date with all offered updates. Is there any way to test whether this little bugger is actually installed on my phone?
Slashdot Mirror
I don't see a GUI shell on a JVM being a Web technology. Except that the GUI and JVM could be remote from each other, transparently. Mainly I'm interested in a GUI shell to an OS and a complete machine, distributed or not. That's not really the "Web", though it could be the "Internet".
I'm especially interested in a mobile platform that works this way, so Android - which is an OS dedicated to running a JVM.
I'd like to use a fully dynamic GUI markup format like HTML5 for presentation, Java classes for computation and data management, and all the existing platforms, libraries, code in repos and tools supporting them for application development. I think an environment that's Javascript for interactive programming, Java for compiled heavy lifting, HTML5 for presentation would be very flexible yet highly specific in application. It would be the modern revision to ksh/C/printf, inherently networked, on JVM instead of C/Unix VM.
I suppose the missing piece would be Sqlite, if it were better integrated to server-side full SQL (explicit JOINs, Java/script stored procedures, etc), corresponding to ksh/C/printf's dbm. Just as Javascript is the dynamic/interactive control language for interfacing HTML5 to Java, Sqlite could be the lightweight data metamodel gluing full SQL to HTML5 local storage.
With that platform (HTML5/Javascript/JVM/Java/Sqlite), there'd be as little difference between "the Web", a local app, and "the Internet" as there is in C/Unix between domain sockets and remote sockets, or as there is on (properly used) X between distributed client/server and both on localhost. So "the Web" would go away as a distinction. Which, especially for mobile use, is essential given the continuing unreliability and diversity of networks and other hardware in use during a single session or across multiple ones by the same user for a continuing purpose.
So it does matter what Oracle does. Because it matters how Oracle's new JVM implements Javascript support, since it's the most common JVM in use. And because Oracle's JVM sets the context for what Google does with Dalvik for all the Android devices rapidly eclipsing (pun not intended, but realized and approved :). the rest of the JVM instances. Especially in the context of Oracle's existential lawsuits against Google's Android. The support in each (and, preferably, the same in both) of those defining JVMs will determine whether "Web 3.0" has a platform like the one I described.
But, probably at least as important to me, is whether I get that platform. I've been waiting for it instead of a VT100 XTerm for over 10 years, ever since a "Netscape GUI CLI" plugin appeared briefly and then disappeared.
Oracle is making announcements about Java 7 and 8 this week. Supposedly the new stuff is better integration between Java and HTML5, and between Javascript and the JVM.
Will that revised tech be good support for an interactive user shell with a Javascript commandline calling Java objects, reporting back HTML5 in a DOM? Interactive HTML5 GUI objects that can take GUI events back into Javascript logic or just Javascript glue to Java objects in the JVM?
Will Android's Dalvik JVM follow that route, or take its own route to that architecture?
Some people are listening. I was out in Zuccatti Park last week, and there were at least 15,000 people there with me.
But not enough. Across America, the same people who voted for Phil Gramm (whose Gramm-Leach-Bliley deregulatede the post-Depression banking protections), who voted for Bush/Cheney twice, who voted Republicans a House majority in 2010 and likely will again in 2012, who will vote for Romney or his standin - those people are parroting the lines that OccupyWallStreet people are "trying to destroy jobs", that it's their fault they're not rich, whatever the Koch brothers society PR think tanks have cooked up for them to squawk. It's those people's refusal to listen to anything but poison, refusal to think, that protects the thieves every decade when they come around - and get away.
But Occupy[WallStreet] is different. I haven't heard of such largely spontaneous demonstrations against the corporate/financial tyrants since at latest the 1940s. Certainly never the main point of such large public demonstrations. And I've even seen some sympathetic reporting among the corporate mass media, surprisingly enough including Disney/ABC. It might not be nearly enough. But it's different. That change in momentum is the signal to do more to support it.
You should go to a nearby OccupyX rally if you can. Or send some sandwiches or sleeping bags. Maybe it'll matter. But if we don't with this time we have, it surely won't matter.
Nothing pains the balls as much as being fined your share of the rulebreaking losses. Which should exceed the annual pay.
Unless it's being fined and fired, which implants the pain instrument in the balls. Better yet, fined, fired, and convicted of a crime. That'll put "balls pain" right at the top of your resume.
The most important part is where the government stops collecting taxes, guaranteeing that even agencies with oversight orders and staffing budgets are underfunded and so understaffed. It helps even more to block the appointment of top managers in the agencies, so the whole office is crippled, overburdened, and unfocused without a leader.
Guess who is responsible for undertaxing and blocking agency appointments? Don't strain - it's the Republicans, and maybe enough fellow "Conservatives" in the Democratic Party to muddy the waters.
The solution is to tax businesses, like the financial business, enough to cover their costs to the public in protecting us from their bad work. Who's going to stop a 0.05% tax on financial transactions, as is now applied in the EU? The Republicans/Conservatives, of course.
No, the logic of that post is perfectly clear. Someone says bank CEOs screwing up hurts everyone but those CEOs. Like people who have lost jobs, or can't get one, after bank CEO screwups destroyed the economy's growth, and the jobs with it. Herman Cain says it's the jobless person's own fault for not having a job - and even their own fault they're not rich. The contrast is that Cain says it isn't the bank CEO's fault people don't have jobs, it's their own fault.
But that's obvious. Except perhaps to a Republican, er "Libertarian", like you. Who spent the entire Bush era telling us Chewbacca was on Endor whenever people complained that deregulation was killing us.
Actually, what Cain said yesterday was "Don't blame Wall Street, don't blame the big banks, if you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself."
While it's arguable that not having a job is a person's own fault (a losing argument with the economy, but arguable), saying it's the fault of everyone not rich that they're not rich isn't just insane. It's the kind of institutional insanity that is driving the country into nothing but the madhouse, with a corporatocracy of Cains at the wheel.
Blame the player, too. They don't have to play that blameworthy game. In fact, banks as big and influential as UBS are the best positioned to change the game. During the past few years since UBS helped crash the world's economies, UBS has been playing the same game as the other banks in keeping the same reckless risk game running, interfering with efforts to regulate the game. Instead it could have helped regulate the game in a way that let it do legitimate business without overwhelming competition from banks that do illegitimate business.
UBS is to blame for keeping the game going when it had its best chance in generations to change it.
UBS and the rest of its banking industry crippled the global economy by doing exactly this: IT systems and business rules showed unsupportable risks were being executed by their traders, but the execs did nothing to stop or slow it.
Something like 2-10 $TRILLION in losses later, after years of the worst recession possible since the reforms installed after the Great Depression, UBS hasn't changed. There is no reason to believe any of these banks have changed, since they all act the same way to compete with each other: ignore risk, because they're too big to (be allowed to) fail.
UBS should forfeit every penny of the public money given it to bail it out. And face the stiffest penalties possible under the laws we now have. And cause new laws to be passed that actually prevent, not just promise to punish after the fact, this reckless risktaking - with frequent audits and financial requirements to continue operating. Once slamming UBS is up and running, that government office should go after the rest of the banks that are surely guilty too.
Tritium does harm. As do the lies and denial.
Now that meltdowns are becoming familiar to people, you're pooh-poohing "the occasional nuclear meltdown". How far you nuke fetishists have sunk from the "nothing bad will ever happen" days, when the lies were simpler. "Too cheap to measure", right? Good times.
Thank you for confessing you find nuking 30% of Japan perfectly tolerable. And for calling me a socialist ideologue for pointing out that nukes make rich people richer. And for the typical nuke fetishist absolutism that without nukes, there is no energy.
You nuke fetishists are a broken record.
That's because the news in this article is actually for geeks, not just news for nerds. The front page story is collapsed to nothing but a geeky headline, so there's a barrier to entry Slashdot doesn't usually offer.
More of this, please.
Mr Shatner, if I were an alien, I'd have seen all the original Star Trek episodes you starred in (maybe I am an alien :). If aliens were to contact any individual human, if they're like me they might pick you, since you were adept at dealing with (our idea of) them. Your best friend was half alien (I leave it to the reader to decide which half ;), you cooperated with the best of them and bested the worst of them, and you always let them bring out the most human in you.
So: have any real aliens ever contacted you? If not, do you think there out there - or maybe even here among us?
In the last 30 years, we had the 1980s Savings & Loan heist under deregulation, the 1992 recession under more deregulation, the 1999 .com bubble and crash under further deregulation, and the 2006-2011 mortgage bubble crash under the most extreme deregulation. Not to mention the many stock market crashes and bailouts outside those bottoms, like Long Term Capital and several market halts under Clinton. All enabled by deregulation.
There are likewise plenty of "incidents" at nuke plants. The Indian Point plant just a couple dozen miles upstream from NYC routinely leaks tritium into groundwater - and that's just what they admit.
There is nothing that is "perfectly safe". Nukes are the kind of thing that, when not "perfectly safe", periodically will cause intolerable damage. Since they, like anything else, will never be "perfectly safe", they can be counted on for periodic intolerable damage.
A self-respecting society that learns from its regular mistakes would outlaw these reckless risks. Instead the richest people build their wealth on it, and among the rest of us they can count on enough of us to explain it all away. Relying on amnesia has been paying off pretty reliably.
Of course they all seem to agree. That's the main reason Japan is in this position: dissent against the official "nukes are the only way" has never been taken seriously there, even less than in many other countries with nukes.
Why wouldn't the Japanese government reopen these areas to residents? The government obviously doesn't care one bit about the health or safety of those people. Or anyone else in Japan - the people near Fukushima aren't being singled out.
Or, for that matter, anyone else. America's government isn't doing anything more to protect us, even as several nuke plants were threatened to within a hair of their design specs (or beyond) this Summer, by floods and by earthquakes.
The heroic sacrifice of workers to entomb Chernobyl in 1986 at tremendous loss of life, health and everything else really starts to make the demonized Soviet government look pretty good in comparison.
Reading the other replies in this thread, it seems that nothing else is lost, and much is gained - if you don't mind being unconventional.
I am very pleased that my post gave you two an excuse to discuss this subject so informedly and insightfully. Thanks for sharing it with me - and with us :).
Will Sprint know that I've rooted my phone? How about if I enable WiFi hotspot on an unlimited data 4G phone... other than by auditing my total consumption and inferring? If they do guess, will I have violated some contract, or even just given them an excuse to cancel my contract?
If not, it seems there's practically nothing to lose except the HTC SenseUI, which seems worth losing. And in its absence, perhaps inspiration to write a different GUI shell myself, or with others.
Ah - would you limit your replacement firmware choice to what that form shows is available for a given phone/orig-OS?
So which rooted firmware would you install on an HTC Evo Shift 4G, that would still run every app in the Android Market (and probably any other app, including ones I make myself with the SDK)? I really don't love the HTC Sense "desktop", but I don't want to live in some fork where every app I install has me second-guessing the firmware choice. And I certainly don't want to live with HTC's attacks like this one - which is a sign of things to come from HTC.
So which rooted firmware would you install on an HTC Evo Shift 4G, that would still run every app in the Android Market (and probably any other app, including ones I make myself with the SDK)? I really don't love the HTC Sense "desktop", but I don't want to live in some fork where every app I install has me second-guessing the firmware choice. And I certainly don't want to live with HTC's attacks like this one - which is a sign of things to come from HTC.
Is there at least a grid or DB somewhere of phones vs firmwares that indicates which OEM features are covered, and perhaps by which optional replacement? I thought phone fans were obsessive about collecting those kinds of details about the objects of their fetish.
I'm asking the people reading this specific discussion, many of whom actually know something. Which is what real people do when having a conversation: ask each other for insights.
Unlike you, Anonymous idiot Coward, who has nothing to offer. What a loser you are that you think you're funny offering some lame old joke link. Why not offer some goatsex instead? Twit.
There's not going to be a way to disable a permission without the app that tries to get it noticing that it's disabled, when that app tries to exercise that permission and the function fails. But so what? We should be able to deny the permission in the OS, but still install the app that wants the permission. Then that function will fail. And the app will either not do what we want, in which case we'll either keep it or not, either give the permission or not, either contact the app distributor/author or not.
This prerogative in the OS seems exactly what we want from an OS: let us manage apps, even at runtime, without just letting them do whatever they want. In fact it's how firewall apps patched into an OS work: an app might try to access the network, but the OS (as configured by the user) sets what the app has permission to access. It doesn't require any support from the app for that permissioning.
It's time for an "IPC firewall" management tool in Android. It should really be part of Android. But maybe a 3rd party developer can put one out there. It's definitely worth $5, if it works.
I have Terminal Emulator. I cd to /system/app , and ls tells me there's no HTCLoggers.apk . Is it hidden somehow? I think the phone is up to date with all offered updates. Is there any way to test whether this little bugger is actually installed on my phone?