Hmm...curious that it came from a Mac site, yes? Apple has $4 Bill in the bank--but would they rather develop 802.11 further, or build this into their next tablet iMac? Or buy it, and then lease it to Palm--provided Mac users still have access?
I dont see any real computer company actually seriously selling Linux on their user level computers any time soon.
Apple's Mac OS X has it's quirks--but now comes pre-installed on every Mac. Linux? No, not technically--but BSD is a cousin. Also, you get drivers for all of the included I/0, including USB, Firewire, 802.11, gigabit ethernet, and an Nvidia card. Is OS X quirky and slow? Yes. But it's getting better fast, with a major improvement expected next month.
An Apple TiBook (or even iBook) running OS X has all of these, and more: support for 802.11 and Firewire built in. Linux? No--but close. If you're looking for a huge screen, you couldn't ask for much more.
Couldn't China and Russia defeat our "missile shield" by simply putting their nukes in submarines? I would think that it would be cheaper to build stealthy subs than try and counteract our missile shiled with evasive missile flying.
The range of today's test was in the order of thousands of miles; no missile shield is going to prevent a strike on Los Angeles from a Chinese sub 20 miles off the coast. And the nations that can't build subs can't really afford ICBMs, either; they'll just use a suitcase nuke.
I didn't see any mention of the best Beowulf clutstering project of Macs, so to "Think Different": Project Appleseed, put together by the physics department at UCLA. They've accomplished phenomenal speeds, etc.; mostly, it's just as possible on Macs as it is on anything else.
In fact, they have even developed a drag-n-drop interface for setting up Beowulf jobs.
own browser, email program, Office compliant word processor
Well, two out of three ain't so bad: witness AppleWorks, a word processor/productivity suite free with every "consumer" level Mac, and the email client on X. Does AppleWorks lack some things? Sure. But it's also good enough for writing letters, and good enough for lots of people that use Office only because they think they need to. AppleWorks also imports Word docs, now too, although the import feature leaves a lot to be desired.
Incidentally, the extended Apple Warranty also covers their consumer software products, including Appleworks. Different than guarantee, yes, but a start in the right direction.
Note Bene: In Jobsian, "consumer"==iMac and iBook. "Pro"==G4 and TiBook, and Apple doesn't give you AppleWorks because they assume you'll buy Office.
The slot-loading iMacs don't have fans, either. That would explain their quietude.
In fact, the metal divider that the deflection board is attached to, also has the logic board attached to it--and subsequently acts as a large, flat, heat sink. I presume that air convects from the bottom of the unit, through the logic board and divider "grill", through the deflection board, past the CRT yoke, and up through the holes around the handle.
This concept seems to have taken the snide aside of "MSFT tax" to a literal extreme.
Imagine, if you will, the fellow who conceives of paper money first. He sells his peers on the convenience of the exchange ("you don't have to carry the goat to the store anymore! Just hand them the bill!"), on the ubiquity of acceptance ("Even if Store Owner Joe doesn't want a goat, he can turn this 'money' into something that he does want!"), and the security of the medium ("Don't worry about watermarks/forgery! We'll be responsible for guaranteeing the media!")
However, instead of us paying a single individual, or even a single company for these advantages, we are levied a tax by our government on each exchange that takes place. In fact, the analogy more closely resembles a per-check charge: we pay 50c a check for the convenience of not having to carry cash, the guarantee that it will accepted by most institutions, and the security authorization that our check is subjected to.
That 50c is rarely accounted for in the cost of an item; it is a meta-charge, accepted as a necessity, and so ignored.
So, Unca Bill is going to set up his own Internet Banking system, sell us (or developers, who pass the costs on to us) on the convenience, on the universality, on the security of his system, and collect 50c per transaction. How many billions of transactions take place everyday, between the billions of individuals throughout the world? And, even if he doesn't collect a per-transaction fee, how many of us pay a bank a monthly fee for the privilege of using our own money through checks? Why do we pay ATM fees instead of carry all our cash in gold bullion? For the same purpose that Gates envisions HailStorm as succeeding.
PS--The common user (read: my mom) doesn't know that MSFT is really that less secure than Linux. But she has heard that there are "some complicated problems with theft on the Internet" and you better believe that Unca Bill is gonna have her convinced that they only way she can be really secure is to use his system. So what if people break in from time to time--he'll just absorb the occasional loss into the billions of dollars being made everyday, just as the insurance companies take a few hits, but make enough money through monthly premiums to both pay for those costs and still work 10-3. People rob banks, too, but people still put their money in them.
Re:OSX has more jewlery hanging on it than Mr. T
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if you want root that badly, fine, but don't expect it as a GUI login option.
Don't forget, however, that you can still type ">console" at the GUI login screen and get dumped to full-screen terminal. Then, login however you want. Also, you can command-s (or is it ctrl-s?) at boot to startup in single-user mode.
10(?)% of their stock buys *ALOT* of control of Apple from M$.
Wrong. Although I won't debate your other points, because they are, well, debatable, this factoid is plain wrong: the stock that MSFT purchased from Apple is non-voting, meaning they can't control this way.
They can control (more or less) by refusing to release the software that you mention (okay, I'll debate it), but Apple has shown some tenacity in opposing this, as well: Apple continued to produce Quicktime, although MSFT threatened to stop Office production if they did so; in fact, Apple countered by threatening to take the memos to the Anti-Trust court. Both Office and Quicktime are still developed.
Secondly, AppleWorks Preview for OS X reads and writes Office formats (!), and Apple's mail.app for OS X willingly imports and exports Entourage and Outlook formats. So there is some control, yes, but don't overstate it. And don't forget that the stock purchase was of non-voting stock.
I've got my copy of Think Unix, my public beta and now the true release,
We're all with you, bro. As a professional Mac support tech myself, a deep place inside of me is crapping itself. I haven't got a "I can't print from X" call yet, but that day will come--probably day 95 after they installed (thereby out of the Apple 90 "new stuff" warranty.)
However, there's lots of talk about Pro-level courses from Apple--think ACSE. Apple's iServices is making noise in that direction, and if that doesn't happen, I might just get Red Hat certified and translate. Also, there's going to be lots of Unix type fellas coming into our field--like has been said before, Apple will be the largest shipper of Unix by year's end, so that will attract Unix sysadmins who can't find Big Iron to support elsewhere. But I think that iServices is our best shot, and we'll hear more when X Server ships. I hope.
The TCO for Macintosh boxes has been lower for years. Mac users have been yelling about it from the top of their lungs, and you can still find whitepapers about it on Apple's website. Did it matter? Not really. People buy MSFT for other reasons, not least of which is that the other guy uses it, too.
In fact, Apple has moved more towards using cheaper parts, precisely because having a lower TCO based on quality hardware wasn't getting them anywhere. People wanted lower TCO and lower initial price, too--and when both weren't an option, they prioritized the latter. Since Linux is (arguably) both, will it win on both merits? Maybe. But you'd better have better figures proving TCO than these.
If the RedHat salesman comes calling with numbers in hand, they will listen.
Or the Apple salesman.
Price out a Mac OS X Server box, running Apache, CommunigatePro, and soon to ship with a GUI admined SAMBA. Sure, the hardware is more expensive--but you're thinking desktops. Take your $500 POS Wintel machine, and it's cheaper than a Mac. But put a version of NT Enterprise on it, with paid up seat licensing (and MSFT there to make sure you're paid up and legit), and suddenly the price curve changes. Mac OS X Server is expected to ship for under $1500--3K at the most. Free seats, and free Unix tools--maybe with a GUI added, gratis, by Apple. Combined with even Apple's top-of-the line G4, and you have everything Enterprise about NT, for much much less. Sure, it's more than Linux will ever be, but you'll get a GUI admin, and the whole shebang from one brand--the box, the OS, and even support. And if you don't think Apple is targeting the business, you need to read between the lines.
Re:out for a few days? - value of OS 9
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An OS 9.1 CD is included for free, but I doubt many are buying OS X because they get OS 9 thrown in. Most machines new enough to run OS X well will most likely have OS 9 already.
Actually, we only sell 9.1 this way anymore--and since only machines that came out in January of 2001 come with 9.1 preinstalled, this is pretty common. That is, none of the Dualie Gigabit G4s, and none of the Summer 2000 iMacs (Ruby, Sage, Snow) came with 9.1 Even if they aren't really interested in X at this point, they might be later--and the 3 CD set is only $30 more than 9.1.
Plus, don't forget--registered owners of the Beta can get a $30 rebate on the Final.
Mac users, by and large, consider the Dual 533 to be the best deal going, right now. At the Apple Store an extra $800 buys you 600 more cycles (fully utilized by the new OS, natch), an extra 10G of HD space, and upgrades you to an NVIDIA GeForce2 card from a Rage 128. If you've got the cash, it's worth it.
Incidentally, you can downgrade the HD to a 30G, and save $100; you can also lose the default modem, to save $50, and can downgrade the video card, to save $100. Buy your RAM elsewhere.
Although, has anyone been able to replace the default shell with bash?
Stepwise has a utility that does this. Stepwise is also a good source of other X Client and Server stuff; they're old NeXT Step folks that have kept the flame alive (and seen their page hits jump hundred fold in the last week, no doubt.)
There's plenty of other places that I've seen bash; don't forget to check Versiontracker for other Mac OS X goodies, a long standby of Mac users.
Does this crackdown support Microsoft's.NET strategy, by offering to "manage the licenses for us?" All you would need is a username and an account number--and Microsoft would helpfully bill your company on the basis of the apps you used and the time that you spent using them. Just think--freeing the IT departments of maintaining the actual apps, and licenses thereof, themselves!
Of course I'm having a very hard time biting my tongue about how we could avoid this problem in the future. (*cough* linux *cough*)
So don't. I do believe that a company has the right to enforce the agreement that you signed with them--but if the costs of the enforcement/surveillance of that contract become to onerous, switch. If Microsoft sees that they are losing money, by losing desktops, to their enforcement, they will either come up with a different licensing model, lower their prices, or die.
It is fair of them to enforce the agreements that you entered into willingly. It is also fair of you to broadcast the alternatives, now that those costs are becoming more apparent.
In any event, how long before Linux can avoid a court challenge? How much marketshare does Gates have to lose before he blatantly violates the GPL, and dares us to take him to court?
Does anybody here really think that Microsoft hasn't scrutinized the GPL with crack teams of $500/hour lawyers, and have complex legal manuevers in place, simply awaiting the perfect test case? How many of us could really take that king of legal jaggurnaut on? Is he simply waiting for the Bush League to settle the Anti-Trust suit first, and then will steal some GPL code, make it obvious, be taken to court, and outspend the hapless writer of the code?
Will the GPL really stand up in a court of law? Wanna bet?
As a matter of fact, or at least claimed by the site, it is--although an obscure and obsolete variant of one. The top-level page claims that the site is run on an "Apple Network Server", nicknamed a "Deep Dish."
Needless to say, you don't see a whole lot of these. I'm not suprised that: 1) It was slashdotted; they only have a 180Mhz PPC chip, slow even by PPC standards, and 2) Netcraft didn't know what the fuck it was.
Slashdot Mirror
Hmm...curious that it came from a Mac site, yes? Apple has $4 Bill in the bank--but would they rather develop 802.11 further, or build this into their next tablet iMac? Or buy it, and then lease it to Palm--provided Mac users still have access?
I dont see any real computer company actually seriously selling Linux on their user level computers any time soon.
Apple's Mac OS X has it's quirks--but now comes pre-installed on every Mac. Linux? No, not technically--but BSD is a cousin. Also, you get drivers for all of the included I/0, including USB, Firewire, 802.11, gigabit ethernet, and an Nvidia card. Is OS X quirky and slow? Yes. But it's getting better fast, with a major improvement expected next month.
An Apple TiBook (or even iBook) running OS X has all of these, and more: support for 802.11 and Firewire built in. Linux? No--but close. If you're looking for a huge screen, you couldn't ask for much more.
Here's the link for an article describing the ports project to Darwin. You can also find more info here.
Plus nukes in subs all over the place?
Couldn't China and Russia defeat our "missile shield" by simply putting their nukes in submarines? I would think that it would be cheaper to build stealthy subs than try and counteract our missile shiled with evasive missile flying.
The range of today's test was in the order of thousands of miles; no missile shield is going to prevent a strike on Los Angeles from a Chinese sub 20 miles off the coast. And the nations that can't build subs can't really afford ICBMs, either; they'll just use a suitcase nuke.
I didn't see any mention of the best Beowulf clutstering project of Macs, so to "Think Different": Project Appleseed, put together by the physics department at UCLA. They've accomplished phenomenal speeds, etc.; mostly, it's just as possible on Macs as it is on anything else.
In fact, they have even developed a drag-n-drop interface for setting up Beowulf jobs.
own browser, email program, Office compliant word processor
Well, two out of three ain't so bad: witness AppleWorks, a word processor/productivity suite free with every "consumer" level Mac, and the email client on X. Does AppleWorks lack some things? Sure. But it's also good enough for writing letters, and good enough for lots of people that use Office only because they think they need to. AppleWorks also imports Word docs, now too, although the import feature leaves a lot to be desired.
Incidentally, the extended Apple Warranty also covers their consumer software products, including Appleworks. Different than guarantee, yes, but a start in the right direction.
Note Bene: In Jobsian, "consumer"==iMac and iBook. "Pro"==G4 and TiBook, and Apple doesn't give you AppleWorks because they assume you'll buy Office.
For that matter, the iMacs are also very quiet
The slot-loading iMacs don't have fans, either. That would explain their quietude.
In fact, the metal divider that the deflection board is attached to, also has the logic board attached to it--and subsequently acts as a large, flat, heat sink. I presume that air convects from the bottom of the unit, through the logic board and divider "grill", through the deflection board, past the CRT yoke, and up through the holes around the handle.
This concept seems to have taken the snide aside of "MSFT tax" to a literal extreme.
Imagine, if you will, the fellow who conceives of paper money first. He sells his peers on the convenience of the exchange ("you don't have to carry the goat to the store anymore! Just hand them the bill!"), on the ubiquity of acceptance ("Even if Store Owner Joe doesn't want a goat, he can turn this 'money' into something that he does want!"), and the security of the medium ("Don't worry about watermarks/forgery! We'll be responsible for guaranteeing the media!")
However, instead of us paying a single individual, or even a single company for these advantages, we are levied a tax by our government on each exchange that takes place. In fact, the analogy more closely resembles a per-check charge: we pay 50c a check for the convenience of not having to carry cash, the guarantee that it will accepted by most institutions, and the security authorization that our check is subjected to.
That 50c is rarely accounted for in the cost of an item; it is a meta-charge, accepted as a necessity, and so ignored.
So, Unca Bill is going to set up his own Internet Banking system, sell us (or developers, who pass the costs on to us) on the convenience, on the universality, on the security of his system, and collect 50c per transaction. How many billions of transactions take place everyday, between the billions of individuals throughout the world? And, even if he doesn't collect a per-transaction fee, how many of us pay a bank a monthly fee for the privilege of using our own money through checks? Why do we pay ATM fees instead of carry all our cash in gold bullion? For the same purpose that Gates envisions HailStorm as succeeding.
PS--The common user (read: my mom) doesn't know that MSFT is really that less secure than Linux. But she has heard that there are "some complicated problems with theft on the Internet" and you better believe that Unca Bill is gonna have her convinced that they only way she can be really secure is to use his system. So what if people break in from time to time--he'll just absorb the occasional loss into the billions of dollars being made everyday, just as the insurance companies take a few hits, but make enough money through monthly premiums to both pay for those costs and still work 10-3. People rob banks, too, but people still put their money in them.
Because Apple is using technology licensed without restrictions, rather than under the GPL commonly found in Linux
Yahoo makes use of this same technology, btw...his idiocy defies words.
Simple things like popup folders...are now gone
Although this thread is nearly dead, I have to point out that Versiontracker has come through again.
if you want root that badly, fine, but don't expect it as a GUI login option.
Don't forget, however, that you can still type ">console" at the GUI login screen and get dumped to full-screen terminal. Then, login however you want. Also, you can command-s (or is it ctrl-s?) at boot to startup in single-user mode.
10(?)% of their stock buys *ALOT* of control of Apple from M$.
Wrong. Although I won't debate your other points, because they are, well, debatable, this factoid is plain wrong: the stock that MSFT purchased from Apple is non-voting, meaning they can't control this way.
They can control (more or less) by refusing to release the software that you mention (okay, I'll debate it), but Apple has shown some tenacity in opposing this, as well: Apple continued to produce Quicktime, although MSFT threatened to stop Office production if they did so; in fact, Apple countered by threatening to take the memos to the Anti-Trust court. Both Office and Quicktime are still developed.
Secondly, AppleWorks Preview for OS X reads and writes Office formats (!), and Apple's mail.app for OS X willingly imports and exports Entourage and Outlook formats. So there is some control, yes, but don't overstate it. And don't forget that the stock purchase was of non-voting stock.
I've got my copy of Think Unix, my public beta and now the true release,
We're all with you, bro. As a professional Mac support tech myself, a deep place inside of me is crapping itself. I haven't got a "I can't print from X" call yet, but that day will come--probably day 95 after they installed (thereby out of the Apple 90 "new stuff" warranty.)
However, there's lots of talk about Pro-level courses from Apple--think ACSE. Apple's iServices is making noise in that direction, and if that doesn't happen, I might just get Red Hat certified and translate. Also, there's going to be lots of Unix type fellas coming into our field--like has been said before, Apple will be the largest shipper of Unix by year's end, so that will attract Unix sysadmins who can't find Big Iron to support elsewhere. But I think that iServices is our best shot, and we'll hear more when X Server ships. I hope.
the "TCO" starts to look favorable for UNIX.
The TCO for Macintosh boxes has been lower for years. Mac users have been yelling about it from the top of their lungs, and you can still find whitepapers about it on Apple's website. Did it matter? Not really. People buy MSFT for other reasons, not least of which is that the other guy uses it, too.
In fact, Apple has moved more towards using cheaper parts, precisely because having a lower TCO based on quality hardware wasn't getting them anywhere. People wanted lower TCO and lower initial price, too--and when both weren't an option, they prioritized the latter. Since Linux is (arguably) both, will it win on both merits? Maybe. But you'd better have better figures proving TCO than these.
If the RedHat salesman comes calling with numbers in hand, they will listen.
Or the Apple salesman.
Price out a Mac OS X Server box, running Apache, CommunigatePro, and soon to ship with a GUI admined SAMBA. Sure, the hardware is more expensive--but you're thinking desktops. Take your $500 POS Wintel machine, and it's cheaper than a Mac. But put a version of NT Enterprise on it, with paid up seat licensing (and MSFT there to make sure you're paid up and legit), and suddenly the price curve changes. Mac OS X Server is expected to ship for under $1500--3K at the most. Free seats, and free Unix tools--maybe with a GUI added, gratis, by Apple. Combined with even Apple's top-of-the line G4, and you have everything Enterprise about NT, for much much less. Sure, it's more than Linux will ever be, but you'll get a GUI admin, and the whole shebang from one brand--the box, the OS, and even support. And if you don't think Apple is targeting the business, you need to read between the lines.
An OS 9.1 CD is included for free, but I doubt many are buying OS X because they get OS 9 thrown in. Most machines new enough to run OS X well will most likely have OS 9 already.
Actually, we only sell 9.1 this way anymore--and since only machines that came out in January of 2001 come with 9.1 preinstalled, this is pretty common. That is, none of the Dualie Gigabit G4s, and none of the Summer 2000 iMacs (Ruby, Sage, Snow) came with 9.1 Even if they aren't really interested in X at this point, they might be later--and the 3 CD set is only $30 more than 9.1.
Plus, don't forget--registered owners of the Beta can get a $30 rebate on the Final.
(I bought the bottom of the line G4 466)..
Mac users, by and large, consider the Dual 533 to be the best deal going, right now. At the Apple Store an extra $800 buys you 600 more cycles (fully utilized by the new OS, natch), an extra 10G of HD space, and upgrades you to an NVIDIA GeForce2 card from a Rage 128. If you've got the cash, it's worth it.
Incidentally, you can downgrade the HD to a 30G, and save $100; you can also lose the default modem, to save $50, and can downgrade the video card, to save $100. Buy your RAM elsewhere.
Although, has anyone been able to replace the default shell with bash?
Stepwise has a utility that does this. Stepwise is also a good source of other X Client and Server stuff; they're old NeXT Step folks that have kept the flame alive (and seen their page hits jump hundred fold in the last week, no doubt.)
There's plenty of other places that I've seen bash; don't forget to check Versiontracker for other Mac OS X goodies, a long standby of Mac users.
Steve Jackson Games has exactly this sort of thing. You can also find shops.
Not suprisingly, Evil Stevie calls it the gamerfinder. Fnord.
Does this crackdown support Microsoft's .NET strategy, by offering to "manage the licenses for us?" All you would need is a username and an account number--and Microsoft would helpfully bill your company on the basis of the apps you used and the time that you spent using them. Just think--freeing the IT departments of maintaining the actual apps, and licenses thereof, themselves!
Of course I'm having a very hard time biting my tongue about how we could avoid this problem in the future. (*cough* linux *cough*)
So don't. I do believe that a company has the right to enforce the agreement that you signed with them--but if the costs of the enforcement/surveillance of that contract become to onerous, switch. If Microsoft sees that they are losing money, by losing desktops, to their enforcement, they will either come up with a different licensing model, lower their prices, or die.
It is fair of them to enforce the agreements that you entered into willingly. It is also fair of you to broadcast the alternatives, now that those costs are becoming more apparent.
but I play one on Slashdot.
In any event, how long before Linux can avoid a court challenge? How much marketshare does Gates have to lose before he blatantly violates the GPL, and dares us to take him to court?
Does anybody here really think that Microsoft hasn't scrutinized the GPL with crack teams of $500/hour lawyers, and have complex legal manuevers in place, simply awaiting the perfect test case? How many of us could really take that king of legal jaggurnaut on? Is he simply waiting for the Bush League to settle the Anti-Trust suit first, and then will steal some GPL code, make it obvious, be taken to court, and outspend the hapless writer of the code?
Will the GPL really stand up in a court of law? Wanna bet?
it's not running on a Mac
As a matter of fact, or at least claimed by the site, it is--although an obscure and obsolete variant of one. The top-level page claims that the site is run on an "Apple Network Server", nicknamed a "Deep Dish."
Needless to say, you don't see a whole lot of these. I'm not suprised that: 1) It was slashdotted; they only have a 180Mhz PPC chip, slow even by PPC standards, and 2) Netcraft didn't know what the fuck it was.
Is the Java support full-fledged?
Apple's Developer page for Java:
http://developer.apple.com/java
In a word: yes. Incidentally, Slashdot has been running banner ads for Apple that link to this page.
Their consumer oriented page is at:
http://www.apple.com/java
although it is still describing the state of Java under OS 9.1