You'd think so, but as someone who used to get horribly motion sick I did research this a while ago, and a plane window offers you little solace. The biggest problem is that when you get into the air you're far from everything. That gives you little reference between the motion of the plan and the background, especially considering you're actually moving in relation to it while it appears to stay still. It works much better in a car window.
Bonus points on a perfectly clear day you don't actually see a horizon out of the plane window and have no reference for motion. I used to dread international flights. No amount of looking out windows (during the day, because you can't see anything out at night) helped.
I do wonder what happened. I only get seasick now, and there a view of the horizon helps a LOT.
Okay let's look at the scenario again with an actual practical example: My street.
25 houses. 16 with solar panels. Nighttime load consumption by all houses is between 3-9KW. Solar generation is zero. Let's assume the middle point (e.g. I have gas cookers and no airconditioning so my night time load is small compared to others with electric stoves and ovens). 6KW x 25 = 150KW being drawn from the pole top transformer at night.
Average empty standby consumption of a house is around 300W (Australia is inefficient about this). Let's assume half the houses are empty (people at work) and the other half have basic daytime load (no lights, just basically a TV and an airconditioning). 12x300W + 13x3KW = 42.6KW being drawn from the grid. The average installed solar system is 6KW in Australia (in my street we actually have a guy with a 25KW system but ignore him, his house looks stupid with all the solar panels) 16*6KW = 96KW being generated.
42.6KW - 96KW = -53.4KW That is 53KW backfed at peak during the day compare to being drawn at night. This isn't some wild made up scenario either. This is a perfectly normal situation when you have roof top solar installations in residential areas that aren't combined with commercial areas.
I realise that this scenario is quite different to Germany. Here in Germany a lot of the solar power is larger and more concentrated. Also a lot of the suburbs aren't zoned stupidly due to the higher population density so your empty houses and apartments actually share transformers with shops and businesses leading to this situation not being as common. But in many places it is common and it is driving some actual investment in replacing end of line transformers in some countries. This problem is actually so bad that it drove our electricity providers to roll out smart meters (I built a house 3 year ago and it got a brand new analogue watt-hour meter). The problem there is that the electricity company can't tell the difference between generating and consuming loads and couldn't charge a different rate for each causing them to lose a lot of money when our meters were spinning backwards. Now I have a smart meter and don't get paid the same amount as I get charged for electricity.
The people were generating more power than they were using. Transformers were being backfed.
Good job you go through the entire post pick out the least suitable example and then ignore the rest. So the casual users will never ever have a Thunderbolt device? Or the casual user will never attach a display?
Don't be silly.
but casual users just ask friends beforehand what they should buy and just return stuff that doesn't work the way they want. If they even notice.
No they don't. Casual users frequently ask friends after when something doesn't work and then return it. At that point the damage is done. Actually I take that back, the idea that someone needs to ask any question at all about Universal Serial Bus compatibility means the damage is done.
Want to buy a birthday gift for a loved one that cannot be traced?
I don't understand why everyone automatically links the concept of cashless with the idea of a single joint bank account. My wife doesn't see my transactions just because I don't use cash, and you can achieve this grand feat too!
I don't understand your comment. I had a bank account and a debit card when I was 7. What's wrong with that? I needed a parental signature but that's about it. The only thing that changed is when I turned 18 they spammed me with offers for credit cards.
Good luck with that when both the EFT and credit networks charge several cents per transaction.
Again I don't understand. I haven't used cash in... well days (but I was in Germany). Back at home I have no problem swiping my debit card for a stick of gum.
This can happen and has happened.
I have also experienced this. The world didn't implode when I couldn't pay for petrol. They took my details and told me to return and clear the debt when the power was back.
Why is that relevant? You are describing two very different mathematical concepts. You can do mathematics just fine without ever counting in a decimal notation. Maybe bees use roman numerals.
That is exactly the problem we're discussion. Parts of the specs are optional. Parts of the spec are not universal. Just because I have a USB-C connector doesn't mean I can connect a device which has a USB-C connector. And that's before we even add something like Thunderbolt to the equation.
Can we just call the next version SB (Serial Bus) and remove the name Universal?
Like I said, when you willfully ignore the technical discussions you can justify ANYTHING. Personally I think it was leprechauns. They are the reason Debian adopted systemd. Makes as much sense as a package that didn't depend on systemd being the cause. Makes as much sense as anything you want to make up despite the fact that their discussion on the topic is public.
The casual users will get more confused as the spec stretches a bit. Does a casual user have a crazy use case like attaching an external display? That is a problem. Does the casual user have a use case where their laptop charges via the USB-C port? That is a problem. Maybe you want to game on your laptop so you decide to buy an external GPU. It has a USB-C connector and cable, no problem right? But does your laptop's USB-C port support Thunderbolt? Did you just spend $500 on a paperweight? Who knows!
Yes the casual user won't care if their phone is a bit slower to charge, but that is hardly the biggest complaint, and the complaints are going to get worse as more devices come to the market.
According to what spec? USB 3.1? USB-C? USB Alternate Mode? USB Power Delivery?
If every device with a USB-C Connector implemented all of the above in full then there wouldn't be a problem. In the meantime I have a laptop in front of me that is fully compliant with the first 2 and completely ignores the following two meaning that the display behind it is now attached via a DP cable rather than the USB-C cable they both support but with which they refuse to communicate with each other.
Instead they decided to rename USB 3.0 as USB 3.1.
They did nothing of the sort. USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 are different standards, one of which optionally offers double the data rate of the previous one using either A or C connectors.
USB-C is an independent standard from the main USB protocol and neither requires the other. Some additional substandard do however require USB-C such as USB Power Delivery 2.0 or USB Alternate mode.
The only thing at all confusing is that alternate mode is optional, otherwise any device with a certain connector type can plug into any host with a certain connector type.
What are you doing that uses 100W constantly all day? I have a 45W charger and 30W mini slower travel charger that both work fine. Granted I'm not bitcoin mining or playing CSGO all day, but I think you may be an extreme edge case. My Dell XPS has a regular charger as well as USB-C so even your use case is covered.
Can you imagine an application where the CPU and GPU run at the same time? I would recommend you never fire up a game on a portable device. 45W doesn't cover it unless you have one of the slow small things that spends most of its CPU time in the TPD throttle mode and most of the GPU time in thermal throttle mode.
There are many laptops on the market which will happily drain their battery while plugged into the strongest power source they have available. Not just cheap ones either, the Surface Book 2 does it too.
Man have I got the perfect phone for you. The specs are great, like an iPhone on steroids. It's just a little bigger than an iPhoneX, weighs 800KG, and costs $20000. Interested?
Maybe I can interest you in a compromise, we'll dramatically reduce the weight and cost of the battery but in exchange you'll need to charge it a bit slower.
Not at all. You don't need KISS in a specification for it to work perfectly. You also don't need it to be free of the kitchen sink.
What you do need for a device that is supposed to be universal is a specification that doesn't allow you to optionally implement only part of it, or a specification that doesn't make compatibility with its sub components not clear.
USB C's specification problems are not that everything and the kitchen sink is included, it's that everything and the kitchen sink is OPTIONAL. I can't just rely on the shape of the connector and plug a display into the USB port on my laptop and have it work, because USB C can but is not required to support DP.
You don't need KISS, but what you do need is a standard full of shalls rather than shoulds or mays.
Err no. What made USB 1 so successful is the idea of one connector for all devices. USB 3 didn't abandon that, it extended that. USB 3's problem is that much of the standard is optional. You can't just plug a USB C display into a USB C port and expect it to work, you need to read fine print.
If you connect a solar panel to the low voltage grid, it is no difference for the high voltage grid if you cancel a 2kW consumer in the low voltage grid or switch in an 2kW producer.
How did you get this far into this thread and still not know what we are talking about. Go back to this comment and start reading again. https://slashdot.org/comments....
Germany has 7 times as much solar power installed then Australia.
Indeed it does. You know what else Germany has? A German guy who habitually doesn't read posts and keeps repeating the same irrelevant nonsense.
Go back to the top of the thread, and try again. There's no sense trying to save this conversation so far down. It's quite clear you haven't understood the last 3 posts I made because you still think we're talking about something we're not.
The link is above. If you want to continue the conversation, then reply to that comment and maybe you'll start to understand why it matters, and why despite your insitance to the contrary this is actually a problem.
But people do want to use it. They just can't because telcos don't support it. Minor telcos do. The ones that realise that investment is not a dirty word. It's not Vint Cerf's fault that some groups thrive on fucking their locked in users. At least when you invite over a prostitute you get some enjoyment out of it.
Because, IPV4 used to be *free*. You needed netblocks, you got netblocks. You request, and they were delivered
Wow ignorance at its best. No you needed netblocks for actual technical reasons, the main one being that routing tables had to be efficiently sliced in order to maintain a performant network.
If we had really "run out", I would have to WAIT to connect to the internet. Or, I'd be stuck behind a NAT device (I'm not), because my ISP had to aggregate clients because they had no free IPs.
And yet the default for pretty much every new connection is to be stuck behind a NAT, just like your phone is stuck behind a NAT because there's not enough IPv4 addresses out there to give everyone a unique one. But you can comfortably say that from your position of privilege, high on your horse that you rent from someone who actually owns lots of one of the resources you claim aren't running out. Back in the real world we pay extra to get an IP address.
Truth is, there's loads and loads of IPV4 laying around.
There's also loads of parcels of land unfenced and unclaimed by anyone. But just because that narrow pathway between two houses doesn't have a private owner doesn't mean it's big enough to meaningfully build a house on, and like IPv4 addresses, doesn't mean it can't just be moved to where it suits you best. You want a land analogy, imagine the poor postman delivering to houses number 1-15 in Bad Street in the suburb of Analogy, only to find that number 6 Bad Street isn't actually in Analogy at all, but rather in Bumshart, Nebrahoma.
Otherwise, why would people be saying WE'RE GOING TO RUN OUT! for TWENTY FUCKING YEARS, and there's still a shit-tonne of IPs left.
I know, and it snowed last year so global warming is a lie. No matter what the topic, ignorance truly reigns supreme.
I bet in 2050, we'll still primarily be IPV4.
I call! No I raise. Google graphs of IPv6 usage. They follow a 3rd order curve and we will be above 50% IPv6 usage in only a couple of years. Assuming it didn't taper off (which it will) we will be 100% IPv6 in 2025, but we won't be. We will however be primarily IPv6 in 2025. Just like denying global warming doesn't stop the world from warming, denying the IPv4 address space has been exhausted won't stop investment into the alternative.
By the way you know what else is expected to happen in the next couple of years? Routing table sizes are expected to exceed the memory capacity of many BGP routers. A lot of older routers are about to be relegated to the scrap heap thanks to your supposed non-problem.
> Getting security patches is not support. It's base line minimum expectations.
It's only baseline minimum expectations because you're getting it. As CastrTroy said, if you're using an Android device, your baseline expectations are not to get any update.
Not at all. It's still a general baseline expectation. If you're using some Android devices then it's likely they aren't meeting your baseline expectations. The expectation is still there.
Speaking of: Galaxy S7 users here, my phone has been regularly getting security patches. Shop around.
Bollocks. They adopted it because it became a dependency of other software
You know when you look back at the history of something you need to start at the beginning and go forward, not start at today and go backwards. There was precisely zero software that depended on systemd when major distros adopted it.
Even now the amount of software that has a dependency on systemd can be counted on one finger, and some prominent systemd distributions actually didn't even feature said software.
I get it though, understanding the motivations behind people is hard when they hold their technical discussions on open mailing lists. When it's all done behind closed doors we can start conspiracy theories, but now... reading... uah!
Slashdot Mirror
Oh I know, but it was possible. Heck to be honest it's hard enough to count in roman numerals :)
You'd think so, but as someone who used to get horribly motion sick I did research this a while ago, and a plane window offers you little solace. The biggest problem is that when you get into the air you're far from everything. That gives you little reference between the motion of the plan and the background, especially considering you're actually moving in relation to it while it appears to stay still. It works much better in a car window.
Bonus points on a perfectly clear day you don't actually see a horizon out of the plane window and have no reference for motion. I used to dread international flights. No amount of looking out windows (during the day, because you can't see anything out at night) helped.
I do wonder what happened. I only get seasick now, and there a view of the horizon helps a LOT.
Okay let's look at the scenario again with an actual practical example: My street.
25 houses. 16 with solar panels. Nighttime load consumption by all houses is between 3-9KW. Solar generation is zero. Let's assume the middle point (e.g. I have gas cookers and no airconditioning so my night time load is small compared to others with electric stoves and ovens). 6KW x 25 = 150KW being drawn from the pole top transformer at night.
Average empty standby consumption of a house is around 300W (Australia is inefficient about this). Let's assume half the houses are empty (people at work) and the other half have basic daytime load (no lights, just basically a TV and an airconditioning). 12x300W + 13x3KW = 42.6KW being drawn from the grid.
The average installed solar system is 6KW in Australia (in my street we actually have a guy with a 25KW system but ignore him, his house looks stupid with all the solar panels) 16*6KW = 96KW being generated.
42.6KW - 96KW = -53.4KW That is 53KW backfed at peak during the day compare to being drawn at night. This isn't some wild made up scenario either. This is a perfectly normal situation when you have roof top solar installations in residential areas that aren't combined with commercial areas.
I realise that this scenario is quite different to Germany. Here in Germany a lot of the solar power is larger and more concentrated. Also a lot of the suburbs aren't zoned stupidly due to the higher population density so your empty houses and apartments actually share transformers with shops and businesses leading to this situation not being as common. But in many places it is common and it is driving some actual investment in replacing end of line transformers in some countries. This problem is actually so bad that it drove our electricity providers to roll out smart meters (I built a house 3 year ago and it got a brand new analogue watt-hour meter). The problem there is that the electricity company can't tell the difference between generating and consuming loads and couldn't charge a different rate for each causing them to lose a lot of money when our meters were spinning backwards. Now I have a smart meter and don't get paid the same amount as I get charged for electricity.
The people were generating more power than they were using. Transformers were being backfed.
Good job you go through the entire post pick out the least suitable example and then ignore the rest.
So the casual users will never ever have a Thunderbolt device? Or the casual user will never attach a display?
Don't be silly.
but casual users just ask friends beforehand what they should buy and just return stuff that doesn't work the way they want. If they even notice.
No they don't. Casual users frequently ask friends after when something doesn't work and then return it. At that point the damage is done. Actually I take that back, the idea that someone needs to ask any question at all about Universal Serial Bus compatibility means the damage is done.
Want to buy a birthday gift for a loved one that cannot be traced?
I don't understand why everyone automatically links the concept of cashless with the idea of a single joint bank account. My wife doesn't see my transactions just because I don't use cash, and you can achieve this grand feat too!
Just buy your tinfoil hat with bitcoins like everyone else.
Including an average child?
I don't understand your comment. I had a bank account and a debit card when I was 7. What's wrong with that? I needed a parental signature but that's about it. The only thing that changed is when I turned 18 they spammed me with offers for credit cards.
Good luck with that when both the EFT and credit networks charge several cents per transaction.
Again I don't understand. I haven't used cash in ... well days (but I was in Germany). Back at home I have no problem swiping my debit card for a stick of gum.
This can happen and has happened.
I have also experienced this. The world didn't implode when I couldn't pay for petrol. They took my details and told me to return and clear the debt when the power was back.
Or they were trained to avoid the element itself.
So you're saying they understood the concept of zero of an element?
So you're saying the bees understand the concept of zero dirt AND beauty?
Why is that relevant? You are describing two very different mathematical concepts. You can do mathematics just fine without ever counting in a decimal notation. Maybe bees use roman numerals.
That is exactly the problem we're discussion. Parts of the specs are optional. Parts of the spec are not universal. Just because I have a USB-C connector doesn't mean I can connect a device which has a USB-C connector. And that's before we even add something like Thunderbolt to the equation.
Can we just call the next version SB (Serial Bus) and remove the name Universal?
Like I said, when you willfully ignore the technical discussions you can justify ANYTHING. Personally I think it was leprechauns. They are the reason Debian adopted systemd. Makes as much sense as a package that didn't depend on systemd being the cause. Makes as much sense as anything you want to make up despite the fact that their discussion on the topic is public.
Now go educate yourself ignorantpoo.
The casual users will get more confused as the spec stretches a bit. Does a casual user have a crazy use case like attaching an external display? That is a problem. Does the casual user have a use case where their laptop charges via the USB-C port? That is a problem. Maybe you want to game on your laptop so you decide to buy an external GPU. It has a USB-C connector and cable, no problem right? But does your laptop's USB-C port support Thunderbolt? Did you just spend $500 on a paperweight? Who knows!
Yes the casual user won't care if their phone is a bit slower to charge, but that is hardly the biggest complaint, and the complaints are going to get worse as more devices come to the market.
According to what spec? USB 3.1? USB-C? USB Alternate Mode? USB Power Delivery?
If every device with a USB-C Connector implemented all of the above in full then there wouldn't be a problem. In the meantime I have a laptop in front of me that is fully compliant with the first 2 and completely ignores the following two meaning that the display behind it is now attached via a DP cable rather than the USB-C cable they both support but with which they refuse to communicate with each other.
Instead they decided to rename USB 3.0 as USB 3.1.
They did nothing of the sort. USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 are different standards, one of which optionally offers double the data rate of the previous one using either A or C connectors.
USB-C is an independent standard from the main USB protocol and neither requires the other. Some additional substandard do however require USB-C such as USB Power Delivery 2.0 or USB Alternate mode.
The only thing at all confusing is that alternate mode is optional, otherwise any device with a certain connector type can plug into any host with a certain connector type.
What are you doing that uses 100W constantly all day? I have a 45W charger and 30W mini slower travel charger that both work fine. Granted I'm not bitcoin mining or playing CSGO all day, but I think you may be an extreme edge case. My Dell XPS has a regular charger as well as USB-C so even your use case is covered.
Can you imagine an application where the CPU and GPU run at the same time? I would recommend you never fire up a game on a portable device. 45W doesn't cover it unless you have one of the slow small things that spends most of its CPU time in the TPD throttle mode and most of the GPU time in thermal throttle mode.
There are many laptops on the market which will happily drain their battery while plugged into the strongest power source they have available. Not just cheap ones either, the Surface Book 2 does it too.
Man have I got the perfect phone for you. The specs are great, like an iPhone on steroids. It's just a little bigger than an iPhoneX, weighs 800KG, and costs $20000. Interested?
Maybe I can interest you in a compromise, we'll dramatically reduce the weight and cost of the battery but in exchange you'll need to charge it a bit slower.
Not at all. You don't need KISS in a specification for it to work perfectly. You also don't need it to be free of the kitchen sink.
What you do need for a device that is supposed to be universal is a specification that doesn't allow you to optionally implement only part of it, or a specification that doesn't make compatibility with its sub components not clear.
USB C's specification problems are not that everything and the kitchen sink is included, it's that everything and the kitchen sink is OPTIONAL. I can't just rely on the shape of the connector and plug a display into the USB port on my laptop and have it work, because USB C can but is not required to support DP.
You don't need KISS, but what you do need is a standard full of shalls rather than shoulds or mays.
Err no. What made USB 1 so successful is the idea of one connector for all devices. USB 3 didn't abandon that, it extended that. USB 3's problem is that much of the standard is optional. You can't just plug a USB C display into a USB C port and expect it to work, you need to read fine print.
If you connect a solar panel to the low voltage grid, it is no difference for the high voltage grid if you cancel a 2kW consumer in the low voltage grid or switch in an 2kW producer.
How did you get this far into this thread and still not know what we are talking about. Go back to this comment and start reading again. https://slashdot.org/comments....
Germany has 7 times as much solar power installed then Australia.
Indeed it does. You know what else Germany has? A German guy who habitually doesn't read posts and keeps repeating the same irrelevant nonsense.
Go back to the top of the thread, and try again. There's no sense trying to save this conversation so far down. It's quite clear you haven't understood the last 3 posts I made because you still think we're talking about something we're not.
The link is above. If you want to continue the conversation, then reply to that comment and maybe you'll start to understand why it matters, and why despite your insitance to the contrary this is actually a problem.
But people do want to use it. They just can't because telcos don't support it. Minor telcos do. The ones that realise that investment is not a dirty word. It's not Vint Cerf's fault that some groups thrive on fucking their locked in users. At least when you invite over a prostitute you get some enjoyment out of it.
Because, IPV4 used to be *free*. You needed netblocks, you got netblocks. You request, and they were delivered
Wow ignorance at its best. No you needed netblocks for actual technical reasons, the main one being that routing tables had to be efficiently sliced in order to maintain a performant network.
If we had really "run out", I would have to WAIT to connect to the internet. Or, I'd be stuck behind a NAT device (I'm not), because my ISP had to aggregate clients because they had no free IPs.
And yet the default for pretty much every new connection is to be stuck behind a NAT, just like your phone is stuck behind a NAT because there's not enough IPv4 addresses out there to give everyone a unique one. But you can comfortably say that from your position of privilege, high on your horse that you rent from someone who actually owns lots of one of the resources you claim aren't running out. Back in the real world we pay extra to get an IP address.
Truth is, there's loads and loads of IPV4 laying around.
There's also loads of parcels of land unfenced and unclaimed by anyone. But just because that narrow pathway between two houses doesn't have a private owner doesn't mean it's big enough to meaningfully build a house on, and like IPv4 addresses, doesn't mean it can't just be moved to where it suits you best. You want a land analogy, imagine the poor postman delivering to houses number 1-15 in Bad Street in the suburb of Analogy, only to find that number 6 Bad Street isn't actually in Analogy at all, but rather in Bumshart, Nebrahoma.
Otherwise, why would people be saying WE'RE GOING TO RUN OUT! for TWENTY FUCKING YEARS, and there's still a shit-tonne of IPs left.
I know, and it snowed last year so global warming is a lie. No matter what the topic, ignorance truly reigns supreme.
I bet in 2050, we'll still primarily be IPV4.
I call! No I raise. Google graphs of IPv6 usage. They follow a 3rd order curve and we will be above 50% IPv6 usage in only a couple of years. Assuming it didn't taper off (which it will) we will be 100% IPv6 in 2025, but we won't be. We will however be primarily IPv6 in 2025. Just like denying global warming doesn't stop the world from warming, denying the IPv4 address space has been exhausted won't stop investment into the alternative.
By the way you know what else is expected to happen in the next couple of years? Routing table sizes are expected to exceed the memory capacity of many BGP routers. A lot of older routers are about to be relegated to the scrap heap thanks to your supposed non-problem.
> Getting security patches is not support. It's base line minimum expectations.
It's only baseline minimum expectations because you're getting it. As CastrTroy said, if you're using an Android device, your baseline expectations are not to get any update.
Not at all. It's still a general baseline expectation. If you're using some Android devices then it's likely they aren't meeting your baseline expectations. The expectation is still there.
Speaking of: Galaxy S7 users here, my phone has been regularly getting security patches. Shop around.
Tell me about it. How can we trust this Linux kernel thing! The amount of access it has to the system is incredible and just look at its size!
Bollocks. They adopted it because it became a dependency of other software
You know when you look back at the history of something you need to start at the beginning and go forward, not start at today and go backwards. There was precisely zero software that depended on systemd when major distros adopted it.
Even now the amount of software that has a dependency on systemd can be counted on one finger, and some prominent systemd distributions actually didn't even feature said software.
I get it though, understanding the motivations behind people is hard when they hold their technical discussions on open mailing lists. When it's all done behind closed doors we can start conspiracy theories, but now... reading... uah!