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Emirates Planes Could Be Going Windowless (abc.net.au)
An anonymous reader shares a report: In the future, you could find yourself booking an Emirates flight without a real window seat. The airline has just unveiled a new first class suite on board its latest aircraft that features "virtual windows" instead of real ones. The President of Emirates, Tim Clarke, is hoping it will pave the way for removing all windows from future planes, which he says will make them lighter and faster. "What we may have [in the next 20 years] is aircraft that are, and I hate to say this to a number of passengers, windowless," he told the BBC. So there's no windows on the outside ... But Mr Clarke says on the inside there will be "a full display of windows," which will beam in the images from the outside. This will be done using fibre-optic camera technology. So, instead of being able to see directly outside, passengers will view images projected from outside the aircraft -- which is almost like the real thing.
What about real ones for safety needs?
Like exit doors?
airplane engines?
Cockpit?
They want to take away the ONE THING I love about flying? Seeing the world from above the clouds is beautiful and helps make the hellish experience of commercial airline travel bearable.
What the hell is wrong with these airlines?
Why even project? The masses have clearly shown that they are enough of cattle to put up with ever-shrinking seats and increased TSA abuse. Why not just have no windows and leave it at that? No need to waste further money and added mass on the fiber optics and other hardware used for the projection. Who is going to stop you?
Without Windows, what OS do they plan to use?
Scotty gave you the formula in 1986 where is it!
selling ad space
Why?
I greatly look forward to people hacking the virtual displays to show all of thew engines on fire...
I'm not going to say I'll never fly one of these, but I really, really like window seats and it would be a pretty big negative that would lead me to select other flights.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Maybe now we can head in the direction of more efficient and eco-friendly airframes like a scaled-up version of the X-48.
when I yell that there's something on the wing.
A positive aspect of non-real windows is the interesting thought that all virtual "Windows" could show views that were not obscured by the wings...
But would passengers be upset if looking outside they could not see wings on a plane?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
... on the one hand, practically speaking it makes no difference. You could even get a better view, or every seat could be a "window" seat.
OTOH, paranoia ... the windows show us going to NY, but we are really going to Cuba!!
Today, unless you have a window seat, you can't really see anything out the side windows anyway except a little patch of sky. And for some of the window seats a lot of the downward view is blocked by wing or engine.
It would be an improvement for most of the seats to present a digital view on a screen: they would get to see the ground, instead of just a random patch of sky. You could then also superimpose things like a digital map of the plane's location, or data about altitude, speed, climb or descent rates, and other interesting information.
Well of course they want to get rid of the windows. It costs a lot to fake things when planes get close to the edge of the world. If you don't let people look outside you can open new flight paths without worrying that the global (hah, that works as a pun here too!) conspiracy will crumble.
Put in your fiber cameras, and leave the real windows there. Then you can see the view out the nose of the plane, and the tail, and people sitting over the wings can see a better view out the side, and also see out both sides of the plane.
You take out the real windows, you might as well show video of anything at all. A pilot-enforced view. A view out an entirely different aircraft. A generic pre-recorded view. A view of a baseball game. Nothing matters when you go 100% virtual. And that's not good.
While the Cockpit would need windows, the rest of the plane doesn't.
That's not true. One of the instructions you get in an exit row seat about opening the door in an emergency is that you need to first look through the window to make sure that it is safe to open the door. It's going to be somewhat hard to do that without a window.
And ....D'uuuuuuhhhhh....we never thought of that!....D'uhuhhhhhhhh, I cum here for ijineering noledge.
It's a goood thing for Slashdot! Because we'd be totally lost! Efen tho we gots our injinnering training form Coursera, we don't no everting.
My doktor told me that my noes bleeds bekause I keep picking it.
So now instead of being able to focus on objects near (the wings) and objects far (mountains, clouds, rivers, ocean), you get to stare at an LCD display....
Didn't some company try this a while back with windowless cars and it made people really sick?
I don't know. It would be awesome if I could choose what I saw. So instead of seeing the earth below a layer of clouds, how about Mars? Or stars streaking by like in Star Trek, or the center of the galaxy in the distance as we appear to traverse the Milky Way at from one spiral arm to the next?
Sign me up for that flight!
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
Lots of yammering. They were yammering about this in the 90s, when there were experiments with lifting body and flying wing designs that didn't support windows. Even then, LCD screens were considered cheaper than designing for windows. Fortunately, this didn't happen due to passenger concerns -- the aircraft is carrying humans, so should be designed to make humans psychologically comfortable. Same reason why subway trains have windows even though there isn't much to see.
Stuffed in a metal tube with way too many people and you can't see outside? Sounds like it would be a great way to induce claustrophobia and anxiety attacks in people who don't even normally experience those. All you'd need then is for it to be a little too warm, be jammed in too close to someone who's making you uncomfortable, and having flight attendants threaten you if you try to leave your seat for any reason, and you'd have all-out panic. Besides which, unless it's night-time, it's nice to be able to look outside through a real window. Some TV screen doesn't cut it. If they're going to do this then they may as well just sedate people for the entire flight.
Viewing of areas deemed sensitive could be easily restricted electronically. Verses the current way of telling passengers to manually pull down the window shades. Imagine flying over an area one has many times, but now seeing blurred out areas or even the entire window blanked out.
Likely, during emergencies or other unexpected flight events, the windows will mask the view of what's really going on outside the aircraft.
Worse, the electronic simulated windows could, and likely will, be used for advertising. Want a windowless ad-free experience, that's going to cost extra. Heck, just being able to view anything outside could be an extra charge.
Finally, how long before some hacker finds a way to project fake images, such as the plane on fire, a wing missing, etc. Or barring that, some good 'ol porn to get the passengers stirred up.
I literally want to see for real. I want to watch the crew working on the plane below before it leaves, I want to watch everything and keep mental track of what is going on.
I wouldn't for the life of me trust a window to show what is really there. They simply think we are stupid crowds of people who can't act responsibly under duress or stress. I'd prefer to know for sure that my view is real and not "adjusted" to hide military bases or other bad things that can't be easily done because planes fly overhead.
Also watching those "I shouldn't be alive" shows, many times people are on a plane watching out the window to see where hijackers or government military planes are taking their prisoners. Sometimes they were told they were being let go and released to america only to notice out the window they never left the country and landed back at another interrogation base.
The windows are needed. People are too shifty to let the passengers in on 100% of whats going on. I'd never fly on one of these!!!
They want to take away the ONE THING I love about flying?
They might want to but it is very unlikely that they will, or that it will work if they ever get as far as doing it. The London Underground used to have windowless carriages in Victorian times because, as the reasoning went, there was nothing to look at going through a tunnel all the time. Despite this, they were massively unpopular, caused motion sickness etc. and were rapidly replaced with windows. I suspect that this will turn out to be true for aeroplanes as well.
They'll need to get the latency below the perception threshold to avoid motion sickness but it's achievable on their timeline.
Personally I'd love a cabin with no overhead storage and a 180* view of the clouds (all-cabin OLED surface) but that's an amusement park ride, not a logistically-sensible transport system.
Without windows they can have more freedom on reconfigurability which I'm sure they'd prefer.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Sounds horrible. The plane will still be on the ground and i'll be spinning with vertigo. If i can't see out a window my head starts to spin, even taxiing.
Scott
Having the floor appear to be translucent to the outside world would be treat, particularly in the bathroom.
When I get a window seat, I really enjoy being able to looking around outside, in all directions, sometimes upwards, sometimes out towards the horizon, sometimes to watch the terrain below, sometimes even to enjoy the patterns I might see in the clouds we may be flying over.. Until they perfect fully 3d holographic displays where the position of my eyes in relation to the "window" determines what I see, I'd have to say no thanks.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I use windows on an airplane as a way to calm down my motion sickness issues and stress relief during turbulence. There's nothing worse than sitting in a completely enclosed tube, being bumped around and not being able to see the true horizon.
Inquiring minds want to know...
I would expect an LED display would weigh the same if not more than a real window, but it is probably going to be more $$$.
I think I'd rather watch Gravity Falls or something than clouds floating by. Maybe the passengers should be able to arm wrestle each other over it.
If the new displays are so awesome, then it should easy to migrate acceptance - put up the full length plane window screens along the plane, with the existing windows still in place.
Then people would get used to the screens and maybe not complain as windows go away...
That is it's a great idea, unless you are afraid to have people compare actual windows with the virtual view...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
....just as long as I can be sure that there isn't a creature on the wing....
It'll be virtual windows, giving them the ability to display ads to all the people looking out the windows, that's all it is ;)
That shit will be startling
If there were a way to make the day look like night that could help sell our biological clocks to acclimate to new time zones more easily.
The difference between a camera and a window is everything. Try and look at a different angle through a camera, or make what you see out the window lie to you.
Forget ads... how long until someone hacks the system so there's swinging dongs or porn in every virtual windows display.
the dynamic range (not even remotely),
the resolution (again ditto),
the frequency spectrum,
and most importantly: their images are not actually 3-dimensional!
No, stereoscopy is NOT 3D, never was, and never will be.
And neither do displays.
There is a joke about Americans not being able to tell real from fake because everything is fake in their country, somewhere in there.
But I'm not prejudiced, so I can't find it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
In a staggeringly more sane political climate we once heard someone who wanted to be president lament over not being able to open the windows on aircraft. If we take windows away from him entirely he might not fly at all.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
...That what i'm seeing is real? When i look out the window and see there isn't a gremlin on the wing I want to know for sure the airline isn't just hiding it to prevent a panic.
> Will the number of lives saved by having a fuselage outweigh
As a passenger, I certainly feel safer if the plane still has it's fuselage.
Mainly because I'm sitting in the fuselage, I prefer it to still be attached to the plane (which is the wing and tail).
More seriously, a more efficient design actually doesn't have a fuselage. A flying wing like the B2 is more efficient, and airlines have researched using them, but passengers prefer windows and boarding is easier with a fuselage and aisle, as opposed to theater style seating in a flying wing.
I bet they will save a few for those who want to pay for a premium seat that includes an actual window. And as other's have said, if there is just a monitor, expect ads and the view to be brought to you by "Little Debbie"
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
If you think turbulence is scary try turbulence in a pitch dark cabin after the
virtual windows have failed. Space Mountain would have nothing on that level of terror.
As we take off and land mostly. I no longer look out at clouds or ground while flying.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
video feed does not work with no power or damaged or maybe in an water landing.
Why I liked those window seats (this was back then)
1. Seeing the lights of my home city was eternally gratifying, after having been away for about six years or so (could have lost my spot in getting a green card -- one flight out of the country meant starting over from step 1, again)
2. Saw some of the Santa Ana wildfires (or the smoke from them) from a safe distance
3. Saw how unnaturally brown and dry Southern California was during the drought back in the 90's
4. Saw the traffic in Tokyo on a Sunday afternoon approach to Narita, with a baby sleeping on the third bench of a minivan =]
But these are the other planes, not Emirates planes.
I would prefer a clear see through fuselage with the exception of the seats and the lavs (let's not forget the lavs). That would be a total blast!
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
Most people today can't pull their eyes away from their gadgets for more than a few seconds. I love looking out the windows of airplanes, but I very rarely see others doing so. As long as modern people can have power for their gadget addiction, they don't care about anything else going on around them. Addiction is a serious thing, and a LOT of people are severely addicted.
I don't respond to AC's.
Now we just need VR remakes of Airplane! and the Airport '7x movies to put passengers right into the experience of air disaster films.
Fuuuuuuck. How's people supposed to get sucke outta windows in movies now?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Can they do some proper ventilation instead of windows? The tiny AC vents are barely adequate.
Why fly to New York to visit your relatives? Just put them on video chat.
And you know they will turn those damn monitors whenever the captain speaks, or the safety video is on, or they show advertisements, or etc. etc.
I guess I've become too jaded. I like window seats because leaning against the bulkhead is slightly more comfortable than leaning back into the seats with no headrest and support in all the wrong spots. I'm only 6ft who did theyake those things for? I also like window seats because I am in charge of the shade and I can keep it down. I don't like natural light it sunburns my atrophied muscles through my translucent skin.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Even cattle cars have spaces between the slats you can look out of.
Considering how many people on /. never pass up an opportunity to complain about motion sickness from JJ Abrams movies, how in the world can any of you even consider flying without having a window to keep you from vomiting all over the cabin?
No one cares what your captcha was
Houston TX, USA
The airlines will start by removing every second window, then charge customers for their choice of window row, or not.
Seems the real use for windows in airplanes is to take pictures of where you are or what you see along the way. If you can still take photos of the virtual windows, that need seems to be met.
With the tales recently of windows failing in airplanes and sucking people out of the plane, maybe getting rid of them would be a good thing.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
The fly "IFR". Instrument rules. The better ones may look out occasionally to appreciate the view. But not to fly.
Example is of that fellow that landed in the Hudson River. Did not see a huge flock of geese in good weather. What was he looking at? Computer screens.
This is happening because people are getting wise to the fact that the earth is flat. These cameras and screens will distort the view to make it look like the earth is curved in order to keep the sheeple docile.
Wake up! /s
> Planes already have plenty of lift;
Larger wings create more drag, which requires more fuel, which is heavier, requiring even more wing and fuel. It's a cycle of inefficiency, so you do NOT want a plane with much larger wings (more lift) than you need, not for efficiency. The drag caused by the wing is over half the drag (cost) of flying the plane.
> making the whole plane a lifting surface does not make it more efficient.
The word plane here is the same thing as in high school geometry - a flat surface, the wing. The wing is the plane, it's the wing the flies. The fuselage is an extra source of drag attached to the plane, so you have something to put passengers in. It's far more efficient to fly the wing without the aerodynamically pointless, wasteful fuselage bolted on.
The reason planes ever even had a fuselage, other than for passengers, is because you needed a tail. A wing by itself isn't stable - is doesn't fly straight. You need tail feathers to keep it pointed forward. Just like a dart. So you have to attach a rear fuselage sticking out to attach the tail too. BUT you also need the center of gravity to be at about the same point as the center of lift, approximately 27% of the chord length aft of the leading edge. That means in order to balance at the right point, you need something sticking out in front of the wing. Otherwise the center of pressure being fore of the cog would cause a pitching moment.
In the last few years, electronic systems have progressed to the point where you can have active stability, electronic controls keeping the plane in the proper attitude, so positive static aerodynamic stability is no longer required. There is now no requirement to have a tail, and therefore no requirement for the very wasteful fuselage. That's why you see new military planes using the flying wing design (B-2, RQ-180, Switchblade), blended wing-body (Boeing X-48, RQ-170), or lifting body, where the the entire aircraft is designed as part of the lifting wing (F-15). The F-15 actually flew with the wing extension, the part most people would call "the wing" completely removed, because the entire aircraft was designed to function as a crude wing.
"Almost" like the real thing. I.e. not.
An ultra HD screen showing what's outside will still look like just that - a screen. I want to see for myself.
(Now all I have to do is convince my wife not to insist on having the window seat every bl**dy flight...)
>> removing all windows from future planes
That's not a big change.
Most of the actual planes use Linux already
http://www.anvari.org/db/fun/C...
aaaaaaa
they'll rent you an iPad that you can hold where the window should be, and for another fee, you can tune in to one of 5 outside streaming cameras
Take away something the passengers want. That's great business planning right there.
A windowless plane is superior from a pure engineering point of view but that's hardly the point. People like windows. They like them in homes, in cars and in planes. Take away the windows and you have made the plane less comfortable, less inviting, and more like a jail cell.
This is the same problem with the Hyperloop.
"Let me look on you with my own eyes." --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McUwVg6MfOk
Blaine the plane is a pain...
-=-Ze End-=-