My point is very much NOT that men can't be raped by women. Of COURSE they can be!
My point is that there is no law, in any country that I am aware of, that states that women are not to be charged as rapists. Please enlighten me if this is not the case, and tell me what backwards country I am missing from my reckoning.
Oh, and sorry about the scare quotes thing. It's american slang for quoting something to make it seem fake or scary. I assumed that's what you were doing.
I'm sick of women being given special consideration in the tech field.
Well, yes, you will get flamed to hell for this.
This isn't about women being given special consideration.
This is about female developers forming an online support group for themselves.
Amazing how much shit you give people for taking some initiative and trying to stop the hemmoraging of female developers from open source.
From my anecdotal evidence, all the women I've run into in the tech field have been, for the most part, silly girls who got where they were because they were hand-held by drooling nerds trying to score some female nerd BOOTAY and never had to fucking do anything/for themselves/.
Awww, look at the mysogynist little boy so scared he's about to crap his pants. He's so cute when he's threatened!
concertina ps. it doesn't count as "in the tech field" if you're not old enough to have graduated from college yet.
You grow a spine and deal with all the shit thrown your way because what really matters is what you really want to do.
God damn, you are an unsympathetic little fuck, aren't you? Anybody ever told you you have issues? 'Cause I'm telling you now.
In other words, your peers, the people who have the same interest as you and the same problems as you, were supportive of you.
And what peers would those be? The ones oggling the titties, the ones drooling because they can't help themselves in the presence of women, or the two other women in your major who don't even speak english?
My friend, the only "peers" female computer scientists often have are their gay male colleagues. Who often don't come out until late in the college experience, or after they enter the workforce, too recently self-aware to make a difference.
While this may mean fewer women in IT, it will certainly mean better women in IT. And before you jump on me for being sexist, what I mean by this is women who can deal with that kind of bigotry.
Or you end up with women who are bitter, angry with the world, and full of issues. And blame you for their problems.
Better able to deal with certain very bad situations != healthy.
Girls who study stuff like engineering here are *swamped* with men and they get to pick which ones they want.
Last I checked, people went to school to get an education, not to get married or pick up guys. Actually, I pitty the poor fool who marries their college sweetheart.
So how do you think this attention would this NOT make them uncomfortable? What makes you think women want to be smothered? Should they still be grateful for the attention if they're gay?
However, I don't think women will contribute under much of the rationale that men do: scratch an itch, bragging rights, altruism, or even stick-it-to-the-M$.
Just curious. I agree with you on the other points... but why do you think women wouldn't be motivated to contribute by a sense of altruism? I know it's the primary reason I contribute to open source. Have you ever volunteered? The volunteer movement is dominated by women.
I consider it one of the great failings of most open source projects that the whole concept of "creating a community" and "contributing to the greater good" is underemphasized in favor of "stick it to M$" and proving your point by screaming loudly in all caps at the other developers until they acquiesce out of annoyance, just so you can get bragging rights. But maybe this, too, is on the verge of change:)
Well, of COURSE men and women communicate differently:) That doesn't mean you should exacerbate the situation by only communicating with people of your own gender!
Women interpret insults as threats. Men interpret them as challenges.
Women interpret gossip as stress relief. Men interpret it as visciousness.
Some people interpret both insults and gossip as great ways to pass the time and get to know people, and view those who don't participate in such activities as weak and antisocial.
Some people interpret both insults and gossip as vile and hateful, and view those who do participate in such activities as bullies and bitches.
My point? Stereotypes are stupid, insulting people and gossiping and work are both really bad ideas, and we're all human so we do it anyways. But if you think you have a problem with being interpreted as an insulting or gossipy individual, maybe it is getting out of hand. Have some fun and get away from work for a while, readjust your attitude, and be a happier person. Same goes for people who get offended reading slashdot occasionally, like myself:) Oh, and take the time to get to know (and like!) your coworkers, and you'll have a much easier time judging when you've crossed the line.
Your utter and complete lack of reading comprehension in no way credits your post. If you have serious objections to make, please address my individual points instead of making ad-hominem, baseless attacks.
I love OS X. I hate the (lack of) package management (excepting fink and ports, which both work about as well as apt works on non-debian distros, which is to say not very well). The install process could use work. Capiche?
Personally, I find OS X's standard application install method far more flexible and attractive than Linux's.
Are you joking?!?
Program management *needs* a gui. I hate the OSX installer method. Completely unintuitive. Move files out of a folder to uninstall them? As a new user, that would just make me scared of moving files, anywhere, ever, for fear of removing programs! (Yes, I know this only applies to the applications folder. A new user will *still* have a hard time getting over this.)
OS X's install process requires you to find the program you want to install on the internet, find its dependencies, and install everything piecemeal, clicking through a royal assload of EULAs on the way. While it's rare that programs have dependencies on other outside programs, it does happen. Updates are made to Apple software, but third-party software has to be updated manually unless the distributer has thoughtfully written an update checker that either installs yet another daemon in your precious memory space, or nags you every time you start up the program and haven't updated. Uninstalls are not always as trivial as removing a program from the Applications folder; some programs pollute the entire filesystem with files. Horrible, horrible, horrible for an advanced user.
Synaptic requires you to select the applications you want to install from a (large, categorized, searchable) list. Sure, it restricts you to programs in the repositories, but the available program selection is freaking huge, and you can add outside repositories to the list. It offers a one-stop shop, a place where you can update everything in one go. Removing programs is as trivial as searching, unchecking a box, and clicking the big "Apply" button.
OS X has many bright points, but program management is not one of these. Debian / Ubuntu offer a much better picture of how it should be done, even while needing some improvements. Hopefully Apple is exploring the ways it can improve, because I'd love to see something more like a cleaner, smoother synaptic on OS X.
Look, I wasn't responding to what the poster's peers were calling feminazis. I was responding to the one point that he agreed with, which reads pretty clearly as code for "anyone who would support a woman's right to abortion." Go back and reread that one section. I am curious if this is truly what he or she meant, or was just using the languange casually. I was not meaning to misinterpret, but to encourage them to be honest about what they were suggesting.
You know what? Someone who has all of these qualities described in the grandparent probably is what you would call a "feminazi". Big deal.
This person is also what is known as a straw man. They do not exist, except in the deluded rabid imaginations of exremists.
If you are to meet someone who you thought actually held these opinions, I suggest you talk with them in a nonconfrontational fashion. You just might find their views a little more nuanced than you give them credit for.
You do realize that you're at Stanford, an extremely liberal (and private!) institution and popular destination in the speaking circuit? And that Stanford doesn't represent mainstream academia?
Stifling of debate is never good. But neither is spouting off bad science from a position of authority. Larry Summers didn't just say men and women are different; that much is obvious, and anyone who would deny that is a moron. To paraphrase, he stated that nature is more powerful than nurture, and that men were better, and implied that they would always be better, than women in science and math. He vastly overstated any evidence he had for his cause.
He later retracted his statement, and admitted that the real argument is far more complex and nuanced. You can argue that he was stifled and shouted down; I would argue that he made a fool out of himself in public making hyperbolic statements and self-censored so as not to appear any more of an ass.
You are at university. Please, while you're there, consider some experiences and opinions outside your own. Meet and have genuine discussions with people who think differently than you, and not with the intention of winning an argument, but of understanding what they have to say. It may be the only time in your life that you have an opportunity to get outside yourself and learn more about who you are.
For what it's worth, Dworking and McKinnon are used as examples of the extreme in the feminist movement, not as some kind of idols.
So what I'm hearing is that you think a feminazi is anyone who's pro-choice, because we have laws in most states that prohibit commerce involving sex? (ack, that was perhaps the most unsexy description of prostitution I've ever seen. Sorry.)
It is possible to be pro-choice, anti-drug-criminalization, and pro-prostitution, after all. That's practically the libertarian party line.
It may be ridiculous, but I think ideas like this need to be confronted (assuming genuineness on the part of the poster), especially on places like slashdot where they are so often allowed to breed and fester unchallenged. Maybe that's an unwarranted assumption here. I really don't know.
Sometimes it's better not to stir things up and give people undue attention. But I'm willing to give this poster a chance first to explain themselves.
First, can you please define feminazi? In a non-trollish way? Cause I'm just curious where the line is drawn between "woman asserting equal rights" and "feminazi".
Second, can you please cite evidence that these feminazis actually exist in academia, and tell us what your background is that you give credence to this? Because I work at a liberal west-coast public university, and I have never once in all of my years working here met one of these people that most would classify as a feminazi.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure. As I said, I was being a bit Amerocentric :)
Thanks, Lukas. That makes much more sense. What a ridiculous law.
concertina
My point is very much NOT that men can't be raped by women. Of COURSE they can be!
My point is that there is no law, in any country that I am aware of, that states that women are not to be charged as rapists. Please enlighten me if this is not the case, and tell me what backwards country I am missing from my reckoning.
Oh, and sorry about the scare quotes thing. It's american slang for quoting something to make it seem fake or scary. I assumed that's what you were doing.
concertina.
Hint: implying that a woman is a whore ... in the workplace ... is usually crossing the line.
HTH!
concertina
Well, yes, you will get flamed to hell for this.
This isn't about women being given special consideration.
This is about female developers forming an online support group for themselves.
Amazing how much shit you give people for taking some initiative and trying to stop the hemmoraging of female developers from open source.
Awww, look at the mysogynist little boy so scared he's about to crap his pants. He's so cute when he's threatened!
concertina
ps. it doesn't count as "in the tech field" if you're not old enough to have graduated from college yet.
God damn, you are an unsympathetic little fuck, aren't you? Anybody ever told you you have issues? 'Cause I'm telling you now.
And what peers would those be? The ones oggling the titties, the ones drooling because they can't help themselves in the presence of women, or the two other women in your major who don't even speak english?
My friend, the only "peers" female computer scientists often have are their gay male colleagues. Who often don't come out until late in the college experience, or after they enter the workforce, too recently self-aware to make a difference.
Or you end up with women who are bitter, angry with the world, and full of issues. And blame you for their problems.
Better able to deal with certain very bad situations != healthy.
concertina
The US is not the UK. The education systems are notably different, and don't even get me started on the cultural differences.
Maybe you never experienced sexism growing up. That doesn't make our experiences any less valid. Please stop cheapening them.
-Concertina
Last I checked, people went to school to get an education, not to get married or pick up guys. Actually, I pitty the poor fool who marries their college sweetheart.
So how do you think this attention would this NOT make them uncomfortable? What makes you think women want to be smothered? Should they still be grateful for the attention if they're gay?
Just curious. I agree with you on the other points ... but why do you think women wouldn't be motivated to contribute by a sense of altruism? I know it's the primary reason I contribute to open source. Have you ever volunteered? The volunteer movement is dominated by women.
I consider it one of the great failings of most open source projects that the whole concept of "creating a community" and "contributing to the greater good" is underemphasized in favor of "stick it to M$" and proving your point by screaming loudly in all caps at the other developers until they acquiesce out of annoyance, just so you can get bragging rights. But maybe this, too, is on the verge of change :)
Why thank you. It was both solid and thoughtful. Shame you missed the point.
kisses,
Concertina
ps. you still haven't answered my question about the scare quotes.
kthx!
concertina
Dear Lucas84,
You are on crack. Or optionally, I am an amerocentrist. But the point still stands.
Sincerely,
Concertina.
ps. What's with the scare quotes around rape?
Well, of COURSE men and women communicate differently :) That doesn't mean you should exacerbate the situation by only communicating with people of your own gender!
:) Oh, and take the time to get to know (and like!) your coworkers, and you'll have a much easier time judging when you've crossed the line.
Women interpret insults as threats. Men interpret them as challenges.
Women interpret gossip as stress relief. Men interpret it as visciousness.
Some people interpret both insults and gossip as great ways to pass the time and get to know people, and view those who don't participate in such activities as weak and antisocial.
Some people interpret both insults and gossip as vile and hateful, and view those who do participate in such activities as bullies and bitches.
My point? Stereotypes are stupid, insulting people and gossiping and work are both really bad ideas, and we're all human so we do it anyways. But if you think you have a problem with being interpreted as an insulting or gossipy individual, maybe it is getting out of hand. Have some fun and get away from work for a while, readjust your attitude, and be a happier person. Same goes for people who get offended reading slashdot occasionally, like myself
You laugh, but it's true. Tampons can also be used as emergency earplugs at a too-loud concert, or as the world's cheapest cat toy.
Hi coward,
Your utter and complete lack of reading comprehension in no way credits your post. If you have serious objections to make, please address my individual points instead of making ad-hominem, baseless attacks.
I love OS X. I hate the (lack of) package management (excepting fink and ports, which both work about as well as apt works on non-debian distros, which is to say not very well). The install process could use work. Capiche?
*smooches*
-Concertina
Are you joking?!?
Program management *needs* a gui. I hate the OSX installer method. Completely unintuitive. Move files out of a folder to uninstall them? As a new user, that would just make me scared of moving files, anywhere, ever, for fear of removing programs! (Yes, I know this only applies to the applications folder. A new user will *still* have a hard time getting over this.)
OS X's install process requires you to find the program you want to install on the internet, find its dependencies, and install everything piecemeal, clicking through a royal assload of EULAs on the way. While it's rare that programs have dependencies on other outside programs, it does happen. Updates are made to Apple software, but third-party software has to be updated manually unless the distributer has thoughtfully written an update checker that either installs yet another daemon in your precious memory space, or nags you every time you start up the program and haven't updated. Uninstalls are not always as trivial as removing a program from the Applications folder; some programs pollute the entire filesystem with files. Horrible, horrible, horrible for an advanced user.
Synaptic requires you to select the applications you want to install from a (large, categorized, searchable) list. Sure, it restricts you to programs in the repositories, but the available program selection is freaking huge, and you can add outside repositories to the list. It offers a one-stop shop, a place where you can update everything in one go. Removing programs is as trivial as searching, unchecking a box, and clicking the big "Apply" button.
OS X has many bright points, but program management is not one of these. Debian / Ubuntu offer a much better picture of how it should be done, even while needing some improvements. Hopefully Apple is exploring the ways it can improve, because I'd love to see something more like a cleaner, smoother synaptic on OS X.
Look, I wasn't responding to what the poster's peers were calling feminazis. I was responding to the one point that he agreed with, which reads pretty clearly as code for "anyone who would support a woman's right to abortion." Go back and reread that one section. I am curious if this is truly what he or she meant, or was just using the languange casually. I was not meaning to misinterpret, but to encourage them to be honest about what they were suggesting.
You know what? Someone who has all of these qualities described in the grandparent probably is what you would call a "feminazi". Big deal.
This person is also what is known as a straw man. They do not exist, except in the deluded rabid imaginations of exremists.
If you are to meet someone who you thought actually held these opinions, I suggest you talk with them in a nonconfrontational fashion. You just might find their views a little more nuanced than you give them credit for.
You do realize that you're at Stanford, an extremely liberal (and private!) institution and popular destination in the speaking circuit? And that Stanford doesn't represent mainstream academia?
Stifling of debate is never good. But neither is spouting off bad science from a position of authority. Larry Summers didn't just say men and women are different; that much is obvious, and anyone who would deny that is a moron. To paraphrase, he stated that nature is more powerful than nurture, and that men were better, and implied that they would always be better, than women in science and math. He vastly overstated any evidence he had for his cause.
He later retracted his statement, and admitted that the real argument is far more complex and nuanced. You can argue that he was stifled and shouted down; I would argue that he made a fool out of himself in public making hyperbolic statements and self-censored so as not to appear any more of an ass.
You are at university. Please, while you're there, consider some experiences and opinions outside your own. Meet and have genuine discussions with people who think differently than you, and not with the intention of winning an argument, but of understanding what they have to say. It may be the only time in your life that you have an opportunity to get outside yourself and learn more about who you are.
For what it's worth, Dworking and McKinnon are used as examples of the extreme in the feminist movement, not as some kind of idols.
First off, thanks for an honest reply.
So what I'm hearing is that you think a feminazi is anyone who's pro-choice, because we have laws in most states that prohibit commerce involving sex? (ack, that was perhaps the most unsexy description of prostitution I've ever seen. Sorry.)
It is possible to be pro-choice, anti-drug-criminalization, and pro-prostitution, after all. That's practically the libertarian party line.
Just curious to hear your point of view.
yeah, you're probably right :) Ah, well, tis the season to be charitable.
It may be ridiculous, but I think ideas like this need to be confronted (assuming genuineness on the part of the poster), especially on places like slashdot where they are so often allowed to breed and fester unchallenged. Maybe that's an unwarranted assumption here. I really don't know.
Sometimes it's better not to stir things up and give people undue attention. But I'm willing to give this poster a chance first to explain themselves.
Additionally this stuff has been known to congress and the federal court involved.
Cite?
Legal for the FBI, I think. Not so legal for the NSA. Someone care to confirm?
Um ... okay.
First, can you please define feminazi? In a non-trollish way? Cause I'm just curious where the line is drawn between "woman asserting equal rights" and "feminazi".
Second, can you please cite evidence that these feminazis actually exist in academia, and tell us what your background is that you give credence to this? Because I work at a liberal west-coast public university, and I have never once in all of my years working here met one of these people that most would classify as a feminazi.