Do you realize that you can reassign what applications open what file types, just like in every OS? Desktop photo viewer and windows media player are included by default, and you can set them as defaults by right clicking on any media file.
Frankly, allowing the screen gestures to be preformed on a trackpad is just plain stupid. Not having a way to turn them off without editing the registry is even worse.
I really like them actually. Windows 8 is a lot more usable on a laptop than Windows 7 due to these gestures. I don't know what you're talking about w.r.t. registry edits, but you can just turn gestures off (in my case) in the synaptics toolbar applet.
8 get's rid of the menu and folders / groups for starting apps with out 3rd party add ons
No it hasn't. This structure is maintained and displayed in the all apps menu (win+Q). You can pin this folder to your toolbar too.... pin %USER PROFILE%\Start Menu as a toolbar and you have a mini start menu replacement... no third party apps required.
And because it's full-screen, it all but encourages the user to forget what he's working on.
Is this an actual problem you've experienced or just something you're supposing could be the case? If you recall back to Windows XP, it didn't take much to end up with a all programs list that filled the entire screen. Yet when the new start menu was introduced, some users were clamoring for the classic start menu for the exact reason that the new one *didn't* take up more screen space with the all programs menu.
How are users who have been opening the Start menu with the mouse for a decade and a half expected to discover the Windows key?
Do you have any evidence that most users don't know what the key does? I'm sure most people have hit it at least once accidentally.
You need to watch instructional videos to figure it out.
No, the only thing you need to know the OS is "move your mouse into any corner" which is told to the user on first log in. Moving your mouse to the corners reveals everything you need to navigate and use the OS.
List of features new to Windows 8. Of this list, only a couple line items relate to the interface. Every release of Windows is characterized as "a service pack with UI changes" but I've never seen any service pack with a changelog like this. The closest is Windows XP SP2, which added the security center.
List of features new to Windows 8. Of this list, only a couple line items relate to the interface. Every release of Windows is characterized as "a service pack with UI changes" but I've never seen any service pack with a changelog like this. The closest is Windows XP SP2, which added the security center.
I cannot sympathize with you on 1. This is a situation where you are using someone else's machine, so you have no reason to expect their interface preferences to conform to your own. The default options are enough to present this situation. Some people hide the task bar. Some people put it on the side. Some people disable grouping and enable labels. Some people have disgusting skins and terrible wallpapers. If you were to use any of these systems for whatever short time, would you just go around changing their user preferences to fit your needs?
Two is a more complicated issue. I understand that the particular interface might make you less productive, but in a work environment you're paid to use what hey give you. Whether it's a Burger King POS or a 6 axis router, you use the interface you're given to do your job. As far as an enterprise situation, you're not installing apps, you're not using metro apps, so the start screen and the entire metro UI is reduced to a simple launcher. Pin your programs you want to the desktop and use Windows 8 as you've always used Windows. If Metro proves to be a real long term drain on productivity, I'm sure you'll see enterprises staying on Windows 7.
It's not that you're trying to fit *every* function on the ribbon, but the most used ones within 2 clicks. Common things like bibliographies, setting page margins, references, styles, etc. were buried in menus, where most users never knew they existed.
If you want the older interface, stick with the old version. Microsoft released a product that in their research and testing proved to be better. Outside of slashdot, in my personal experience normal users actually like the ribbon. But don't ask me, hundreds of millions of licenses have been deployed. If the interface was really so terrible that it trashed productivity across the board, don't you think users would have migrated to the free LibreOffice that actually has the old interface?
You're also commenting profusely on many Windows 8 threads on things about which you have little to no personal experience. Here is a perfect example where less talking and rhetoric would be more helpful to the discussion.
here's no obvious way to discover how to open the Start menu with the mouse
Don't confusion "intuitiveness" with "habit." For a completely novice user there was no obvious way in Windows 7 or Windows Vista to open the start menu either. People just knew how to open the start menu because they were trained to do so in Windows 95-XP, where it was labeled (even 95 had a tutorial on what the start menu was and how to open it. Microsoft also had an ad campaign on the start menu). Windows Vista removed the label, and replaced it with a plain orb. Okay.... it's a graphic element at least, obvious it's a menu, right? Well then why did people have so much trouble with the Office orb, which looked exactly the same as the start orb: an orb with the office logo, but was at the top instead of the bottom. No one had been trained to click the office button at the top right, so now all of a sudden that element was unintuitive and and non-obvious.
Non-obviousness is not an issue. There are plenty of non-obvious and hidden interface designs that are good, like right context menus, double clicking, click drag, keyboard shortcuts, etc. As long as you have the training to use these interfaces, then they're fine. I don't need a label everywhere telling me where to right click and where to click drag and where to double click. Windows 8 gives you enough instruction to find the basics of the OS the first time you log on, which is more than can be said for Windows 7.
How do you prevent yourself from swiping the wrong way on your laptop's trackpad to accidentally bring up weather, as the video points out?
You can customize the gestures via the touch pad applet, like the synaptics gesture suite.
And if the interface formerly known as Metro is something to be avoided, why was it made the default in the first place
It's not to be avoided, but some people just don't like it, and don't want to hear the benefits. That's fine, but the bitching is getting old when the fix is so simple.
No, they complain because they can't change it back to what they know they can operate at least as efficiently.
You can change it back easily by installing any of the dozens of start menu replacements that have cropped up. They effectively revert Windows 8 back to Windows 7, removing all hot corners, gestures, and start screen access if you want.
and is replaced by a full-screen weather application.
Which can be run side by side with the desktop and other apps, and does not prevent any other applications from running. The fact that some subset of programs run fullscreen does not mean Windows 8 requires all programs run full screen, and only one program can run at a time. This would be like saying "Windows 7 removes windowing, and requires all programs to be full screen, so only able to run one program at a time" just because you run games in fullscreen mode.
In fact, even for the programs that run full screen (metro apps) they can run in the background simultaneously, and side by side.
I can't really see the benefit of Windows 8 over 7 at the moment though so I'm considering going back.
Why even bother going back? Just install a start menu replacement (one of dozens available), and you'll have a machine that looks and acts like Windows 7. You'll never even have to touch metro, as they disable hot corners and boot to desktop. Then you retain the performance, security, and new features in Windows 8, with all the benefits of Windows 7.
The tutorial plays the first time you log on to a new account. It tells you to move your mouse to any corner, and shows you the charms bar opening if you move the mouse to the top right. This gives you shortcuts for search, start, and settings. This accounts for everything the GP complained is hidden and confusing.
The problem is not that it's difficult to learn (though it is a bit of a shock at first); the problem is that some people just don't like it.
And how is that a problem? Just install a start menu replacement that you like and use the Desktop. What you're left with is an OS that is better than Windows 7 in every appreciable way from security, compatibility, performance, and resource consumption.
Slashdot Mirror
Do you realize that you can reassign what applications open what file types, just like in every OS? Desktop photo viewer and windows media player are included by default, and you can set them as defaults by right clicking on any media file.
Frankly, allowing the screen gestures to be preformed on a trackpad is just plain stupid. Not having a way to turn them off without editing the registry is even worse.
I really like them actually. Windows 8 is a lot more usable on a laptop than Windows 7 due to these gestures. I don't know what you're talking about w.r.t. registry edits, but you can just turn gestures off (in my case) in the synaptics toolbar applet.
If Windows 7 were still widely available
Windows 7 is still widely available from OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.
8 get's rid of the menu and folders / groups for starting apps with out 3rd party add ons
No it hasn't. This structure is maintained and displayed in the all apps menu (win+Q). You can pin this folder to your toolbar too.... pin %USER PROFILE%\Start Menu as a toolbar and you have a mini start menu replacement... no third party apps required.
And because it's full-screen, it all but encourages the user to forget what he's working on.
Is this an actual problem you've experienced or just something you're supposing could be the case? If you recall back to Windows XP, it didn't take much to end up with a all programs list that filled the entire screen. Yet when the new start menu was introduced, some users were clamoring for the classic start menu for the exact reason that the new one *didn't* take up more screen space with the all programs menu.
How are users who have been opening the Start menu with the mouse for a decade and a half expected to discover the Windows key?
Do you have any evidence that most users don't know what the key does? I'm sure most people have hit it at least once accidentally.
You need to watch instructional videos to figure it out.
No, the only thing you need to know the OS is "move your mouse into any corner" which is told to the user on first log in. Moving your mouse to the corners reveals everything you need to navigate and use the OS.
Ugh, sorry, last reply was meant for another. Yes, that might be a nice change, but the current implementation isn't exactly a major problem.
List of features new to Windows 8. Of this list, only a couple line items relate to the interface. Every release of Windows is characterized as "a service pack with UI changes" but I've never seen any service pack with a changelog like this. The closest is Windows XP SP2, which added the security center.
List of features new to Windows 8. Of this list, only a couple line items relate to the interface. Every release of Windows is characterized as "a service pack with UI changes" but I've never seen any service pack with a changelog like this. The closest is Windows XP SP2, which added the security center.
Probably right. In this case however, it's your IT department that's supposed to train you on how to use your work-required technology, not MIcrosoft. Here is what you missed: http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/2/3214795/windows-8-tutorial-setup-guide
I cannot sympathize with you on 1. This is a situation where you are using someone else's machine, so you have no reason to expect their interface preferences to conform to your own. The default options are enough to present this situation. Some people hide the task bar. Some people put it on the side. Some people disable grouping and enable labels. Some people have disgusting skins and terrible wallpapers. If you were to use any of these systems for whatever short time, would you just go around changing their user preferences to fit your needs?
Two is a more complicated issue. I understand that the particular interface might make you less productive, but in a work environment you're paid to use what hey give you. Whether it's a Burger King POS or a 6 axis router, you use the interface you're given to do your job. As far as an enterprise situation, you're not installing apps, you're not using metro apps, so the start screen and the entire metro UI is reduced to a simple launcher. Pin your programs you want to the desktop and use Windows 8 as you've always used Windows. If Metro proves to be a real long term drain on productivity, I'm sure you'll see enterprises staying on Windows 7.
It's not that you're trying to fit *every* function on the ribbon, but the most used ones within 2 clicks. Common things like bibliographies, setting page margins, references, styles, etc. were buried in menus, where most users never knew they existed.
If you want the older interface, stick with the old version. Microsoft released a product that in their research and testing proved to be better. Outside of slashdot, in my personal experience normal users actually like the ribbon. But don't ask me, hundreds of millions of licenses have been deployed. If the interface was really so terrible that it trashed productivity across the board, don't you think users would have migrated to the free LibreOffice that actually has the old interface?
Because the track pad gesture and touch gesture both slide in from the right side. It's just an animation.
Yes, a few:
Start8: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
ViStart: http://www.lee-soft.com/vistart/
Classic Shell (has the benefit of being FOSS): http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
Pokki: https://www.pokki.com/windows-8-start-menu
You're also commenting profusely on many Windows 8 threads on things about which you have little to no personal experience. Here is a perfect example where less talking and rhetoric would be more helpful to the discussion.
here's no obvious way to discover how to open the Start menu with the mouse
Don't confusion "intuitiveness" with "habit." For a completely novice user there was no obvious way in Windows 7 or Windows Vista to open the start menu either. People just knew how to open the start menu because they were trained to do so in Windows 95-XP, where it was labeled (even 95 had a tutorial on what the start menu was and how to open it. Microsoft also had an ad campaign on the start menu). Windows Vista removed the label, and replaced it with a plain orb. Okay.... it's a graphic element at least, obvious it's a menu, right? Well then why did people have so much trouble with the Office orb, which looked exactly the same as the start orb: an orb with the office logo, but was at the top instead of the bottom. No one had been trained to click the office button at the top right, so now all of a sudden that element was unintuitive and and non-obvious.
Non-obviousness is not an issue. There are plenty of non-obvious and hidden interface designs that are good, like right context menus, double clicking, click drag, keyboard shortcuts, etc. As long as you have the training to use these interfaces, then they're fine. I don't need a label everywhere telling me where to right click and where to click drag and where to double click. Windows 8 gives you enough instruction to find the basics of the OS the first time you log on, which is more than can be said for Windows 7.
How do you prevent yourself from swiping the wrong way on your laptop's trackpad to accidentally bring up weather, as the video points out?
You can customize the gestures via the touch pad applet, like the synaptics gesture suite.
And if the interface formerly known as Metro is something to be avoided, why was it made the default in the first place
It's not to be avoided, but some people just don't like it, and don't want to hear the benefits. That's fine, but the bitching is getting old when the fix is so simple.
No, they complain because they can't change it back to what they know they can operate at least as efficiently.
You can change it back easily by installing any of the dozens of start menu replacements that have cropped up. They effectively revert Windows 8 back to Windows 7, removing all hot corners, gestures, and start screen access if you want.
Sorry, I missed the word "only" in the first quote. That word makes the answer "No"
Is it displayed only when the PC's owner boots the operating system for the first time
Yes.
or also when another user of the same computer boots the operating system for the first time?
Yes.
It is clear to me now that you've never even used Windows 8. Please refrain from commenting on how terrible it is until you've actually tried it?
and is replaced by a full-screen weather application.
Which can be run side by side with the desktop and other apps, and does not prevent any other applications from running. The fact that some subset of programs run fullscreen does not mean Windows 8 requires all programs run full screen, and only one program can run at a time. This would be like saying "Windows 7 removes windowing, and requires all programs to be full screen, so only able to run one program at a time" just because you run games in fullscreen mode.
In fact, even for the programs that run full screen (metro apps) they can run in the background simultaneously, and side by side.
I can't really see the benefit of Windows 8 over 7 at the moment though so I'm considering going back.
Why even bother going back? Just install a start menu replacement (one of dozens available), and you'll have a machine that looks and acts like Windows 7. You'll never even have to touch metro, as they disable hot corners and boot to desktop. Then you retain the performance, security, and new features in Windows 8, with all the benefits of Windows 7.
The tutorial plays the first time you log on to a new account. It tells you to move your mouse to any corner, and shows you the charms bar opening if you move the mouse to the top right. This gives you shortcuts for search, start, and settings. This accounts for everything the GP complained is hidden and confusing.
The problem is not that it's difficult to learn (though it is a bit of a shock at first); the problem is that some people just don't like it.
And how is that a problem? Just install a start menu replacement that you like and use the Desktop. What you're left with is an OS that is better than Windows 7 in every appreciable way from security, compatibility, performance, and resource consumption.
So removing windowing, and requiring all programs to be full screen, so only able to run one program at a time, is an improvement to you?
Yeah, that would be terrible... too bad Windows 8 does exactly none of that.