Your more then welcome to attempt to insult me, but I've been dealing with children like yourself for *along* time.
It is legal plain and simple, and I'll explain why for your simple thinking, knuckle draging self.
But if you want to try a diffrent route, you take something from the company you worked(lay'd off), in Liau of wages to be paid. You are doing the same as a creditor would, if he walked in and started collecting things. The company is INDEBTED to you for monies owed, you broke no laws.
If you would like me to dumb it down some more for you, you work as a body man, doing body work on cars. You run this business yourself...so you are your own employee. Someone comes in with a crunched front quarter(fender), you say $3,000 for the work and they say okay. But they don't pay you at the appointed time when the work is compleate. So what is your LEGAL recourse? Hold the property until payment is recived, if it's not in I think 60days in ontario, then it becomes your property to do with what you want.
Pretty simple isn't it? As your put it...you dumb shit.
Guess what, I am one of those hackers that would find in that room. Sometimes publicly flaunting something, usually the desired effect. Much like your comment.
But wondering off...as Heinlein said, speciliazation is for insects. I am a Renaissance man true and though.
I remeber first going online at a friends house, he had 300baud...I thought wow, this is cool. My first modem for going to BBS's was a hayes 2400, nice modem...still works;)
But a few BBS's stick out in my mind, there was Hogman and I think Mitch Cole was his name that owned it...maybe your reading this, if so...email me. Bunch in town, I remeber the old Empire Boards 4 nodes at one point, before it disapeared. I remeber the weekly stradegy for BRE, and Tradewar's where the guys in the city would get together in the local coffee shop to plan the weeks stradegy. Ahh there was one run by a nice guy named bill, whom I haven't talk to in year we were friends, then the "inner" sanctum of BBS owners going awol on each other, spreading lies and rumors...basicly brought down this great community we had.
Oh well, I still play BRE on a couple of leages, one out austraila and one out of germany. Though I fondly remeber dialing up the music archive, of MP3's to get the best ones...such a shame when they went to a paid service.
Sometimes I wish I could trade my childhood back, sometimes I'm quite sure I missed the most importan point...and that was the fun of it all...but running a BBS myself...that didn't leave too much unfortunatly. But such as life, and it was a good experiance.
---
"A human being should be able to change a diaper,
plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship,
design a building, write a sonnet, balance acounts,build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
There are more true hackers around then you know about. Regardless, us *hackers* whether we are white, black, or greyhat's are all around and you would never know...unless you asked us.
On another point, a hacker writes their own tools, script kiddies use the tools we have written.
Come to Defcon sometime, and you'll see how many "true" hackers are around. But that's only the ones that can make it. Otherwise you can always try the 2600 meetings.
Theft if theft, unless it's done in a binding contract to gain lost wages in Liau of layoff.
Or to make it simpiler, I get laid off when the company owes me $50+K, I will take all the equipment I can to guarentee that I will be paid, should I recive my owed monies, then I will return the equipment in the state I claimed it in.
Should I not get paid, the company here by forfits that equipment to me, in payment for services rendered. End of story.
When you start a job, whether you sign a contract or it's given verbaly, it's still a binding contract.
--
Obsure Fact
--
If you write a check on a cow, it's still a check.
And we should make the gaining of knowledge though legal means a crime as well? That's what this law implies. It's one small step to go from "hacking is a crime" to any "hacking related events are illegal" aka Defcon, 2600 gatherings. Or better yet, anything that is not taught by the goverment in sancitioned classrooms is a crime punishable by "life in jail".
Mashiki
--
Assholes, I'm surounded by Assholes!
--
What happens when they want to start putting it on all machines and reading what you are writing to your mistress? Then the use that information to co-urse you into something hmm?
Sorry keyloggers my opinion are the same as wiretaps. Wiretaps record communication that has been converted into electical impulses, keyloggers do the same thing, except the storage device is attached to the computer.
When I was 15, I hung around adults absorbed all the information I could, argued them point and counter point, began to understand what the world was before most people at the age of 25 do. You know, I have never gone for a joyride, I've never done anything *illegal*, but then again most people say I don't conform to the laws in canada, because they oppress a person's freedom. Now a days, I sit around alt.2600.hackers/hackerz and absorb information, and do freelance security and white hat hacking work.
While the majority of 15 yr olds are cocky SoB's, some are not. Some of us were overly intelligent and prefered to do something other then waste our time. Just remeber, at 15 but I could do things you couldn't even imagine.
In anycase what's would you be more scared of? A cocky SoB who is 15 or a 15yr old that has an IQ of 185?:)
Yes, but that didn't stop them from passing the law in the US now did it?
You are correct with the points of canuck law, but there are several things in the last few years up here that should not have happend and have all in defiance of the constitution, ever since the old PC days, things have been going down hill here.
CISIS is a good example, exactly like the NSA but can spy on canadian citizens, and doesn't require a warrent to do anything at all. They are exempt from 90% of all canadian laws, and the only people they are acountable to are themselfs.
What can I say? I looked up the info that EPIC has gotten...90% of it blacked out. What are the packet sniffin' capibilities of this program? It spooks me, also...as said before. Who is going to stop them from turning this thing on and snooping though everyone's e-mail? It's documented that the FBI cannot be trusted. I suppose it goes back to '91 when I first got on the net.
The first thing I did was obtain a digital signature. The second thing I did was encrypt all my e-mail with PGP. There is nothing else that you can do if you want security. Even PGP can be broken with time, but if someone is so intrested in snooping into my e-mail to listen to my conversations with my girl overseas then let them. But it doesn't make me happy. I would be more happy if they would keep their noses outta my business.
All in all this makes me sick, but this has turned into a rant. Unfortunatly, and I was going to say something decent...maybe I'll remeber sometime! ^_^
Where CESUS can enter your house and tap everything without a warrent.
Where watching TV and haveing the channel pirated by the goverment and canadian commercials put in their place.
Where US satilite dishes are illigal and can be seized by the RCMP. (Currently in supreme court attempting to be overturned).
Where clubbing baby seals is legal, and hunting crows because there are too many is not.
Where you can simply wonder around and stalk someone and not get more then 3 mo in jail.
Where you have two choices if someone robs you...surrender of flee.
Where you have no right to defend your property against people if they break in, or damage it.
Where simply saying the wrong thing on the radio can land you in jail? Where the goverment agents can man-handle you and you can't sue them for injuries?
And this is the same country that says that violent video games need to be rated with a XXX rateing, or a R rateing. Where if someone doesn't like something it automaticly becomes illigel.
This country of ours...aka canada, is truely sad. They call it a "free country", it's not.
To slap in some more info, the average canadian pays 58% in income tax. Then an aditional 7-43% on all goods they buy?
This is one sad country, where the people are sheep and don't stand to fight for the goverment pushing them around. If these people looked at the laws they were trying to pass(after summer break), they would turn white, melt in their shoes, and wish they were somewhere else.
HA! My a$$, once again the goverment tries to has decided to screw around with everyone's rights.
Being a student of history...guess what I see...I see a goverment begging to be over thrown. I see people useing their rights...in the US that is to bare arms against the goverment. It has become a bloated political body which does nothing but service itself.
In canada, it's none the better...every day they attempt to pass something like this. Ever hear of CESUS? It's like the secret goverment police...but they don't need a warrent to do anything here. Wanna wire tap something? They do it...want to log someone's computer? They just do it. So much for a free country.
Besides, if it's a free country...why do they pirate US TV stations and slap in canadian commericals? Preserving the culture of canada they say. Bah, makes me ill. Spineless cowards up here, simply said simply put.
And if you americans don't bloody well wake up, you'll end up like us too. Paying 58% in income tax, then paying another 7-19% in combined federal and income tax, then paying for all the hidden taxes on top. As well as looseing your right to own a gun and other things.
Bloody well wake up, and don't turn from the greatest free country, to the greatest police state in the world.
Slashdot Mirror
Your more then welcome to attempt to insult me, but I've been dealing with children like yourself for *along* time.
It is legal plain and simple, and I'll explain why for your simple thinking, knuckle draging self.
But if you want to try a diffrent route, you take something from the company you worked(lay'd off), in Liau of wages to be paid. You are doing the same as a creditor would, if he walked in and started collecting things. The company is INDEBTED to you for monies owed, you broke no laws.
If you would like me to dumb it down some more for you, you work as a body man, doing body work on cars. You run this business yourself...so you are your own employee. Someone comes in with a crunched front quarter(fender), you say $3,000 for the work and they say okay. But they don't pay you at the appointed time when the work is compleate. So what is your LEGAL recourse? Hold the property until payment is recived, if it's not in I think 60days in ontario, then it becomes your property to do with what you want.
Pretty simple isn't it? As your put it...you dumb shit.
Guess what, I am one of those hackers that would find in that room. Sometimes publicly flaunting something, usually the desired effect. Much like your comment.
But wondering off...as Heinlein said, speciliazation is for insects. I am a Renaissance man true and though.
I remeber first going online at a friends house, he had 300baud...I thought wow, this is cool. My first modem for going to BBS's was a hayes 2400, nice modem...still works ;)
But a few BBS's stick out in my mind, there was Hogman and I think Mitch Cole was his name that owned it...maybe your reading this, if so...email me. Bunch in town, I remeber the old Empire Boards 4 nodes at one point, before it disapeared. I remeber the weekly stradegy for BRE, and Tradewar's where the guys in the city would get together in the local coffee shop to plan the weeks stradegy. Ahh there was one run by a nice guy named bill, whom I haven't talk to in year we were friends, then the "inner" sanctum of BBS owners going awol on each other, spreading lies and rumors...basicly brought down this great community we had.
Oh well, I still play BRE on a couple of leages, one out austraila and one out of germany. Though I fondly remeber dialing up the music archive, of MP3's to get the best ones...such a shame when they went to a paid service.
Sometimes I wish I could trade my childhood back, sometimes I'm quite sure I missed the most importan point...and that was the fun of it all...but running a BBS myself...that didn't leave too much unfortunatly. But such as life, and it was a good experiance.
---
"A human being should be able to change a diaper,
plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship,
design a building, write a sonnet, balance acounts,build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
-- Robert A. Heinlein
There are more true hackers around then you know about. Regardless, us *hackers* whether we are white, black, or greyhat's are all around and you would never know...unless you asked us.
On another point, a hacker writes their own tools, script kiddies use the tools we have written.
Come to Defcon sometime, and you'll see how many "true" hackers are around. But that's only the ones that can make it. Otherwise you can always try the 2600 meetings.
Mashiki
--
Whitehat, why yes!
--
Theft if theft, unless it's done in a binding contract to gain lost wages in Liau of layoff.
Or to make it simpiler, I get laid off when the company owes me $50+K, I will take all the equipment I can to guarentee that I will be paid, should I recive my owed monies, then I will return the equipment in the state I claimed it in.
Should I not get paid, the company here by forfits that equipment to me, in payment for services rendered. End of story.
When you start a job, whether you sign a contract or it's given verbaly, it's still a binding contract.
--
Obsure Fact
--
If you write a check on a cow, it's still a check.
--
Mashiki
--
And we should make the gaining of knowledge though legal means a crime as well? That's what this law implies. It's one small step to go from "hacking is a crime" to any "hacking related events are illegal" aka Defcon, 2600 gatherings. Or better yet, anything that is not taught by the goverment in sancitioned classrooms is a crime punishable by "life in jail".
Mashiki
--
Assholes, I'm surounded by Assholes!
--
Those who are willing to give up freedom and liberty for safty deserve neither.
What happens when they want to start putting it on all machines and reading what you are writing to your mistress? Then the use that information to co-urse you into something hmm?
Sorry keyloggers my opinion are the same as wiretaps. Wiretaps record communication that has been converted into electical impulses, keyloggers do the same thing, except the storage device is attached to the computer.
Aye well anymore companies want a peice of paper that says something. It's nice to have, my suggestion take some night course's at a college.
But anymore you probbly know more then what the person who has the peice of paper does.
When I was 15, I hung around adults absorbed all the information I could, argued them point and counter point, began to understand what the world was before most people at the age of 25 do. You know, I have never gone for a joyride, I've never done anything *illegal*, but then again most people say I don't conform to the laws in canada, because they oppress a person's freedom. Now a days, I sit around alt.2600.hackers/hackerz and absorb information, and do freelance security and white hat hacking work.
:)
While the majority of 15 yr olds are cocky SoB's, some are not. Some of us were overly intelligent and prefered to do something other then waste our time. Just remeber, at 15 but I could do things you couldn't even imagine.
In anycase what's would you be more scared of? A cocky SoB who is 15 or a 15yr old that has an IQ of 185?
Yes, but that didn't stop them from passing the law in the US now did it?
You are correct with the points of canuck law, but there are several things in the last few years up here that should not have happend and have all in defiance of the constitution, ever since the old PC days, things have been going down hill here.
CISIS is a good example, exactly like the NSA but can spy on canadian citizens, and doesn't require a warrent to do anything at all. They are exempt from 90% of all canadian laws, and the only people they are acountable to are themselfs.
What can I say? I looked up the info that EPIC has gotten...90% of it blacked out. What are the packet sniffin' capibilities of this program? It spooks me, also...as said before. Who is going to stop them from turning this thing on and snooping though everyone's e-mail? It's documented that the FBI cannot be trusted. I suppose it goes back to '91 when I first got on the net. The first thing I did was obtain a digital signature. The second thing I did was encrypt all my e-mail with PGP. There is nothing else that you can do if you want security. Even PGP can be broken with time, but if someone is so intrested in snooping into my e-mail to listen to my conversations with my girl overseas then let them. But it doesn't make me happy. I would be more happy if they would keep their noses outta my business. All in all this makes me sick, but this has turned into a rant. Unfortunatly, and I was going to say something decent...maybe I'll remeber sometime! ^_^
Where CESUS can enter your house and tap everything without a warrent.
Where watching TV and haveing the channel pirated by the goverment and canadian commercials put in their place.
Where US satilite dishes are illigal and can be seized by the RCMP. (Currently in supreme court attempting to be overturned).
Where clubbing baby seals is legal, and hunting crows because there are too many is not.
Where you can simply wonder around and stalk someone and not get more then 3 mo in jail.
Where you have two choices if someone robs you...surrender of flee.
Where you have no right to defend your property against people if they break in, or damage it.
Where simply saying the wrong thing on the radio can land you in jail? Where the goverment agents can man-handle you and you can't sue them for injuries?
And this is the same country that says that violent video games need to be rated with a XXX rateing, or a R rateing. Where if someone doesn't like something it automaticly becomes illigel.
This country of ours...aka canada, is truely sad. They call it a "free country", it's not.
To slap in some more info, the average canadian pays 58% in income tax. Then an aditional 7-43% on all goods they buy?
This is one sad country, where the people are sheep and don't stand to fight for the goverment pushing them around. If these people looked at the laws they were trying to pass(after summer break), they would turn white, melt in their shoes, and wish they were somewhere else.
HA! My a$$, once again the goverment tries to has decided to screw around with everyone's rights.
Being a student of history...guess what I see...I see a goverment begging to be over thrown. I see people useing their rights...in the US that is to bare arms against the goverment. It has become a bloated political body which does nothing but service itself.
In canada, it's none the better...every day they attempt to pass something like this. Ever hear of CESUS? It's like the secret goverment police...but they don't need a warrent to do anything here. Wanna wire tap something? They do it...want to log someone's computer? They just do it. So much for a free country.
Besides, if it's a free country...why do they pirate US TV stations and slap in canadian commericals? Preserving the culture of canada they say. Bah, makes me ill. Spineless cowards up here, simply said simply put.
And if you americans don't bloody well wake up, you'll end up like us too. Paying 58% in income tax, then paying another 7-19% in combined federal and income tax, then paying for all the hidden taxes on top. As well as looseing your right to own a gun and other things.
Bloody well wake up, and don't turn from the greatest free country, to the greatest police state in the world.