So that raises the question that someone else here already asked. How can they legally sue without all contributing authors being involved, or at least consenting?
At what point did the ownership of the software solely lie in the hands of this one person?
But person A disagrees, which I guess is the point to all this.
I personally don't think anything is going to change as far as the legal action represented here, but if it did, things like this could be the beginning of the end for the GPL. I'm actually surprised that they never accounted for anything like this.
I grabbed this for my 9 year old last year last-minute and he loves it: Radio Shack snap kit. (Although I thought the kit I bought him was much bigger than this one). He even went beyond the included instructions and started experimenting with some interesting (and scary) things.
You forgot to mention that the more powerful Goku VZ series will not be released until the Dragon VZs and The NameckZs are beat to hell and almost inoperable.
Actually, compassion is under-rated. If a person has the mental powers of a 3 year old, you may not love him-but someone probably does. Fortunately, the decision is not up to you or I to make.
Someone who has had a life-long struggle coping with issues that us *normal* people could never imagine are much stronger than you or I will ever be. They are the survivors of a world that can be cruel and thoughtless without an ounce of remorse for any scars that they might have made on their lives.
When I was born, I was extremely cross-eyed and had to have corrective surgery...now I have 20/20 vision and do not need the use of glasses anymore. I can only thank God that my mother was just as happy to hold me after I was born, even if I had a third eye on my forehead.
So why shouldn't any child-no matter how ugly, deformed or simple-minded he is-have the opportunity to receive some compassion as well? Being a parent-this opinion is one-sided. Simply because I cannot envision the monstrosity it would take to ever kill my child.
I have noticed lately that a lot of products have come out with similiar names-there are a couple already named Passport as well, such as IBM Passport-is there not anything to restrict the names of products? Or is it the simple fact that it is referred to as Microsoft Passport and IBM Passport? I have a feeling if we starting naming things Exchange or Office2000 (purely examples) for Linux things might get a little hairy-so what exactly is the divider?
That guy in the T shirt was Swift Griggs, one of the guys who actually threw her out of DefCon-it should be pretty obvious why they were in an argument...
Yep, your right, not only does the happyhacker.org website use the brickhouse software-SAGE (or Brickhouse) actually hosts the site on their network as well (something I am not entirely happy about)-but that keep telling me that it is only to provide an 'excellent testing grounds' for their software-as much as this woman gets attacked each day (and for good reason) I don't blame them. However-as you pointed out, it does make the situation stinky-bad publicity. But I can assure you, telling you from personal knowledge-that Carolyn Moniel nor anti-online has had NOTHING to do with the development of Brickhouse. (thank god)
I have to agree about the source code issue with Brickhouse-I have asked them many times if they plan to release it...I don't think that they are going to, not even when you purchase it. (I'm not sure how they are going to get around it either-the modifications are theirs, but not the kernel)
One thing I do know, is that a lot of the code is assembler, and that they are not releasing the software in a "box" like you would buy RedHat or Quake, but as a fully installed server-machine and all. I'm not sure if that changes anything, but I guess I can see why it could. If they are selling it as a "customized machine" with "customized software" it is a possibility that it doesn't exactly infringe on any copyrights-besides that, the software isn't "really" Linux anyway...
Name calling? Acting like 4th graders/high school students? I must have missed that. In my opinion-this is the BEST place for them to be discussing this. I think that both of them are finally getting some mixed-up feelings out in the open-and we know it's true. We don't have to second-guess, or make our own conclusions. All of you that are like "advocate this, evangelized that, blah,blah,blah" apparently have NO idea who ESR and Bruce are-they are old school, jolt drikin', pizza eatin', Open Source foundin' hackers (and I would really not like to get into a discussion of who has done more of what and when).
What they do benefits US...I can't really understand whey everone is suddenly wanting all this politically correctness-when in a hearbeat you would flame Mindcraft or troll Microsoft if something was said that you didn't agree with. So here we go all over again-they give you what you want, and all of a sudden it is "in" to spank them like you are their mommys.
I have an idea that these two know a LOT more about Linux advocacy than most of us reading here, and I'll be damned if I squash what they are doing.
I don't view Eric Raymond as an "evangelist" in the since that he has to keep his nose clean and has to watch what he says. Geeesshh..he's only human, just a man. So, let me give you a tip (because I have met quite a few of these guys)-GET A SENSE OF HUMOR!
Lord help you if you ever get into a conversation with Phil Hughes...you might just have a heart attack.
A good friend of mine, Swift Griggs, was one of the guys that had Carolyn Meinel booted from DefCon. What was funny was when I asked him to attend AMLC '99-when he showed up he saw her immediately and went over and started arguing with her. Someone came and grabbed me to go break it up-Swift was cool about it, and while we were walking off I asked him if she started messing with him-he just said "No, I just walked in and started f$*king with her". The main argument, as far as I can tell, was over the CTF event at DefCon-not neccessarily the event itself, but an article that she had posted on antionline about it. In my opinion, the girl is missing some screws.
You would be surprised, but I have seen MANY perl scripts that write a log to a file in a directory that has 755 or even 777 permissions. I actually do this myself when I develop them-and worry about the permissions later. So...this may not have been a case of bad CGI-but instead a case of bad implementation.
I think that more contests such as this will probably continue to turn out with the same results. Barring from the fact that this was a security blunder in the CGI code (I am assuming perl?)-everyone is right...this was probably also due to a lack of knowledge of administration on the Linux machine. So now the Open Source community has something to take a look at-c'mon people, they have been rubbing it in our faces ever since the Mindcraft tests... Linux is not a perfect OS (yet)-instead of ranting and raving we need to FIX the problems that these tests are cranking out.
I don't get mad, or jealous when Microsoft wins one-and all the excuses in the world aren't going to help. So, apparently what we have learned is that we need to make Linux more secure right out of the box-and easier to configure. (Like I said, don't get me wrong-I do understand that it was a CGI blunder), but we really don't need to use this as yet another 'crutch' to avoid the problems. There are other tests that Linux has failed at-the re-make of the Mindcraft tests didn't prove anything exept that the problems can be REDUCED with good administration, and not RESOLVED. So these are the things we need to be pushing RedHat, SUSE, Caldera, etc... to implement in their distributions.
P.S.: There is a simliar crack-contest going on at http://www.3rdpig.com , and they are offering a $1000 dollar reward as well, you have to get the contents of a file called SecurityDemo. This is a great example of a nice-secure system, but unfortunately it is still pretty buggy. If you go there you will see what I mean. It is very hard to get around, and you are restricted BIG TIME-fork errors flying around in bash, access permissions denied to certain libraries, etc, etc..
I see it a bit differently. While all these major companies are coming out-and the new buzzword seems to be "RedHat Compatible", but that's all it is...a buzzword. The compatibility issues can only be due to the fact that it uses glibc, and RedHat is not the only distribution that uses it. Let's face it, while there are other distributions out there, doing just as many sales, and are just popular-the GENERAL public is fixed on one-RedHat. RedHat shows them a potential profit margin, so of course everyone is trying to cash in on it right now. What the good thing is, if this "trend" continues to catch on with the larger companies-in the future it may be just as easy to find Linux drivers as it is to find Windows drivers.
First off-I may loose all moderation priviledges (I am not one right now) from this point forward-but I would like to clarify that I have been a moderator several times...and not once, regarding ANY issue was I ever contacted nor asked to ignore AC comments.
I can see why you are upset that NO AC questions were used in the interview-but I can assure you that there is no conspiracy. I set my threshold to 1, and it is sometimes left there while I have been a moderator-I assume I am not alone,which would explain why a lot of them are overlooked in the first place.
With all the agony of First Post! and Meeppphhtt! etc.. that had to be accepted before/. came up with the threshold option...That is why I now use it to keep from having to look at that crap.
As far as any of this goes, why should Alan HAVE to weed through dozens of questions-maybe he just didn't want to. He was doing US a favor by doing the interview -/. was just making it easier on him..and I think that they were good questions and it was a great interview-next time why not just log in?
p.s. I was not a moderator at the time the questions were asked either.
The best idea I have heard on the matter so far...I also don't agree with the Heinz Ketchup analogy, it just doesn't fit the situation. The thing that concerns me right now is: Can they legally (honestly) do anything to stop this? This email sent by Rob is in no way a technical document-more of a request. Amazon can conform to this if they want-but this is going on at ebay and other auction sites as well. As far as thats concerned, what is stopping Amazon and others from ignoring the request and allowing business as usual?
I can absolutely see why they are ticked, and yes-I saw a lot of the "cheap knockoffs" on ebay and others right after the 6.0 release.
What I don't understand is the Heinz Ketchup comparison...If you want to compare it to this situation, wouldn't it still be the exact same Heinz Ketchup-maybe without the label? The ingredients would be the same, because they came from the same factory, but with less info about the product.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not misunderstanding what is going on-these people on the auction sites are definately trying to trick people into thinking you are getting an official box set. And, I can see why they don't want them to use their logos and the Red Hat name. But as far as I am concerned, by calling them "cheap knock offs" they are wrong.
There is no "knock off" about it-you still get a useable distribution, and it is still Red Hat linux. Sometimes Rob's analogies are unneccesary, it almost seems like he is trying to convince himself.
after your comment...and double checking-I think so too. I posted an earlier comment on the design-I really think the overall design is proprietary and sucks. But that really DOES look like a backlit LCD panel..so it could have some perks.
Think about it...an isp with a box like this-if your like any other ISP owner I've ever worked for, you don't let ANYONE back there anyway..let's take a poll as well, how many of you out there (using Linux) have the cover on your machine?
This goofy design, the crazy lights... But on the lighter side, it does grab the attention of the younger (I'm not that old, so don't start) generation. So I guess the question is-Is it sensible? I don't think it's reasonable to pay a higher price for proprietary hardware, just to make it look cool. Anyone with a black case that has tried to buy black components knows what I am talking about....
HA! Same here!-I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with it, but I play Quake and Q2 every night, sometimes up to 4 or 5 hours at a time...Guess I just needed someone to say it first to verify my theory-Everyone else was sick though...
I have used SMS for a corporation before-They pushed the install to all the machines, and yes they could control the machines with/without the users knowledge...BUT, one thing we always had to do was call the person up to have them manually activate all the services the first time (after that it saved the config)...I'm not really sure how this can be compared as the same thing. Also, the SMS software had to be installed, and without admin access to the domain-there was no way to do this unless we wanted to step around to each of the 750 machines on the network....So yes, SMS and BO2K do have similiar working features...with the exeption of how they are implemented (and in my book that is a big exception)...
I think that this is a topic the Human Race[TM] will be arguing about for the rest of existence. I agree with what you are saying, it sounds really gruesome and fortunately I have not had the opportnity to witness it. Something that is always said is that we are messing with nature, there are two sides to this story. Yeah, we've blown a hole in the ozone layer, we spray perfume in rabbits eyes, we spread diseases, we hunt for game, and we have enough recklessness to drive every organism on this planet to the point of extinction. But why is this not natural. We create these products and do these things because we_think_of them. Who are we to say that nature is NOT taking it's course? For all we know the libratory mice will take over-in the future they will dig up our remains and try to figure out how we fit in their family tree....And Mickey Mouse will be GOD!;)
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So that raises the question that someone else here already asked. How can they legally sue without all contributing authors being involved, or at least consenting? At what point did the ownership of the software solely lie in the hands of this one person?
But person A disagrees, which I guess is the point to all this. I personally don't think anything is going to change as far as the legal action represented here, but if it did, things like this could be the beginning of the end for the GPL. I'm actually surprised that they never accounted for anything like this.
I grabbed this for my 9 year old last year last-minute and he loves it: Radio Shack snap kit. (Although I thought the kit I bought him was much bigger than this one). He even went beyond the included instructions and started experimenting with some interesting (and scary) things.
This year, he's getting this book: We dare you
Also saw one of these on woot the other day, but missed out. Still thinking about getting him one though: Excalibur Space Navigator
You forgot to mention that the more powerful Goku VZ series will not be released until the Dragon VZs and The NameckZs are beat to hell and almost inoperable.
Actually, compassion is under-rated. If a person has the mental powers of a 3 year old, you may not love him-but someone probably does. Fortunately, the decision is not up to you or I to make.
Someone who has had a life-long struggle coping with issues that us *normal* people could never imagine are much stronger than you or I will ever be. They are the survivors of a world that can be cruel and thoughtless without an ounce of remorse for any scars that they might have made on their lives.
When I was born, I was extremely cross-eyed and had to have corrective surgery...now I have 20/20 vision and do not need the use of glasses anymore. I can only thank God that my mother was just as happy to hold me after I was born, even if I had a third eye on my forehead.
So why shouldn't any child-no matter how ugly, deformed or simple-minded he is-have the opportunity to receive some compassion as well? Being a parent-this opinion is one-sided. Simply because I cannot envision the monstrosity it would take to ever kill my child.
Especially before I even knew her.
I have noticed lately that a lot of products have come out with similiar names-there are a couple already named Passport as well, such as IBM Passport-is there not anything to restrict the names of products? Or is it the simple fact that it is referred to as Microsoft Passport and IBM Passport? I have a feeling if we starting naming things Exchange or Office2000 (purely examples) for Linux things might get a little hairy-so what exactly is the divider?
Skepticism can definately be overlooked now-a-days, even when I use "".....
That guy in the T shirt was Swift Griggs, one of the guys who actually threw her out of DefCon-it should be pretty obvious why they were in an argument...
Yep, your right, not only does the happyhacker.org website use the brickhouse software-SAGE (or Brickhouse) actually hosts the site on their network as well (something I am not entirely happy about)-but that keep telling me that it is only to provide an 'excellent testing grounds' for their software-as much as this woman gets attacked each day (and for good reason) I don't blame them. However-as you pointed out, it does make the situation stinky-bad publicity. But I can assure you, telling you from personal knowledge-that Carolyn Moniel nor anti-online has had NOTHING to do with the development of Brickhouse. (thank god)
I have to agree about the source code issue with Brickhouse-I have asked them many times if they plan to release it...I don't think that they are going to, not even when you purchase it. (I'm not sure how they are going to get around it either-the modifications are theirs, but not the kernel)
One thing I do know, is that a lot of the code is assembler, and that they are not releasing the software in a "box" like you would buy RedHat or Quake, but as a fully installed server-machine and all. I'm not sure if that changes anything, but I guess I can see why it could. If they are selling it as a "customized machine" with "customized software" it is a possibility that it doesn't exactly infringe on any copyrights-besides that, the software isn't "really" Linux anyway...
Any lawyers out there that could clarify?
But if they did do this-how much would it cost? And who really "owns" the moon? Would it fall under the GPL? ;-)
Name calling? Acting like 4th graders/high school students? I must have missed that. In my opinion-this is the BEST place for them to be discussing this. I think that both of them are finally getting some mixed-up feelings out in the open-and we know it's true. We don't have to second-guess, or make our own conclusions. All of you that are like "advocate this, evangelized that, blah,blah,blah" apparently have NO idea who ESR and Bruce are-they are old school, jolt drikin', pizza eatin', Open Source foundin' hackers (and I would really not like to get into a discussion of who has done more of what and when).
What they do benefits US...I can't really understand whey everone is suddenly wanting all this politically correctness-when in a hearbeat you would flame Mindcraft or troll Microsoft if something was said that you didn't agree with. So here we go all over again-they give you what you want, and all of a sudden it is "in" to spank them like you are their mommys.
I have an idea that these two know a LOT more about Linux advocacy than most of us reading here, and I'll be damned if I squash what they are doing.
I don't view Eric Raymond as an "evangelist" in the since that he has to keep his nose clean and has to watch what he says. Geeesshh..he's only human, just a man. So, let me give you a tip (because I have met quite a few of these guys)-GET A SENSE OF HUMOR!
Lord help you if you ever get into a conversation with Phil Hughes...you might just have a heart attack.
A good friend of mine, Swift Griggs, was one of the guys that had Carolyn Meinel booted from DefCon. What was funny was when I asked him to attend AMLC '99-when he showed up he saw her immediately and went over and started arguing with her. Someone came and grabbed me to go break it up-Swift was cool about it, and while we were walking off I asked him if she started messing with him-he just said "No, I just walked in and started f$*king with her". The main argument, as far as I can tell, was over the CTF event at DefCon-not neccessarily the event itself, but an article that she had posted on antionline about it. In my opinion, the girl is missing some screws.
You would be surprised, but I have seen MANY perl scripts that write a log to a file in a directory that has 755 or even 777 permissions. I actually do this myself when I develop them-and worry about the permissions later. So...this may not have been a case of bad CGI-but instead a case of bad implementation.
I think that more contests such as this will probably continue to turn out with the same results. Barring from the fact that this was a security blunder in the CGI code (I am assuming perl?)-everyone is right...this was probably also due to a lack of knowledge of administration on the Linux machine. So now the Open Source community has something to take a look at-c'mon people, they have been rubbing it in our faces ever since the Mindcraft tests... Linux is not a perfect OS (yet)-instead of ranting and raving we need to FIX the problems that these tests are cranking out.
I don't get mad, or jealous when Microsoft wins one-and all the excuses in the world aren't going to help. So, apparently what we have learned is that we need to make Linux more secure right out of the box-and easier to configure. (Like I said, don't get me wrong-I do understand that it was a CGI blunder), but we really don't need to use this as yet another 'crutch' to avoid the problems. There are other tests that Linux has failed at-the re-make of the Mindcraft tests didn't prove anything exept that the problems can be REDUCED with good administration, and not RESOLVED. So these are the things we need to be pushing RedHat, SUSE, Caldera, etc... to implement in their distributions.
P.S.: There is a simliar crack-contest going on at http://www.3rdpig.com , and they are offering a $1000 dollar reward as well, you have to get the contents of a file called SecurityDemo. This is a great example of a nice-secure system, but unfortunately it is still pretty buggy. If you go there you will see what I mean. It is very hard to get around, and you are restricted BIG TIME-fork errors flying around in bash, access permissions denied to certain libraries, etc, etc..
I see it a bit differently. While all these major companies are coming out-and the new buzzword seems to be "RedHat Compatible", but that's all it is...a buzzword. The compatibility issues can only be due to the fact that it uses glibc, and RedHat is not the only distribution that uses it. Let's face it, while there are other distributions out there, doing just as many sales, and are just popular-the GENERAL public is fixed on one-RedHat. RedHat shows them a potential profit margin, so of course everyone is trying to cash in on it right now. What the good thing is, if this "trend" continues to catch on with the larger companies-in the future it may be just as easy to find Linux drivers as it is to find Windows drivers.
First off-I may loose all moderation priviledges (I am not one right now) from this point forward-but I would like to clarify that I have been a moderator several times...and not once, regarding ANY issue was I ever contacted nor asked to ignore AC comments.
/. came up with the threshold option...That is why I now use it to keep from having to look at that crap.
/. was just making it easier on him..and I think that they were good questions and it was a great interview-next time why not just log in?
I can see why you are upset that NO AC questions were used in the interview-but I can assure you that there is no conspiracy. I set my threshold to 1, and it is sometimes left there while I have been a moderator-I assume I am not alone,which would explain why a lot of them are overlooked in the first place.
With all the agony of First Post! and Meeppphhtt! etc.. that had to be accepted before
As far as any of this goes, why should Alan HAVE to weed through dozens of questions-maybe he just didn't want to. He was doing US a favor by doing the interview -
p.s. I was not a moderator at the time the questions were asked either.
The best idea I have heard on the matter so far...I also don't agree with the Heinz Ketchup analogy, it just doesn't fit the situation. The thing that concerns me right now is: Can they legally (honestly) do anything to stop this? This email sent by Rob is in no way a technical document-more of a request. Amazon can conform to this if they want-but this is going on at ebay and other auction sites as well. As far as thats concerned, what is stopping Amazon and others from ignoring the request and allowing business as usual?
I can absolutely see why they are ticked, and yes-I saw a lot of the "cheap knockoffs" on ebay and others right after the 6.0 release.
What I don't understand is the Heinz Ketchup comparison...If you want to compare it to this situation, wouldn't it still be the exact same Heinz Ketchup-maybe without the label? The ingredients would be the same, because they came from the same factory, but with less info about the product.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not misunderstanding what is going on-these people on the auction sites are definately trying to trick people into thinking you are getting an official box set. And, I can see why they don't want them to use their logos and the Red Hat name. But as far as I am concerned, by calling them "cheap knock offs" they are wrong.
There is no "knock off" about it-you still get a useable distribution, and it is still Red Hat linux. Sometimes Rob's analogies are unneccesary, it almost seems like he is trying to convince himself.
after your comment...and double checking-I think so too. I posted an earlier comment on the design-I really think the overall design is proprietary and sucks. But that really DOES look like a backlit LCD panel..so it could have some perks.
Think about it...an isp with a box like this-if your like any other ISP owner I've ever worked for, you don't let ANYONE back there anyway..let's take a poll as well, how many of you out there (using Linux) have the cover on your machine?
This goofy design, the crazy lights... But on the lighter side, it does grab the attention of the younger (I'm not that old, so don't start) generation. So I guess the question is-Is it sensible? I don't think it's reasonable to pay a higher price for proprietary hardware, just to make it look cool. Anyone with a black case that has tried to buy black components knows what I am talking about....
HA! Same here!-I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with it, but I play Quake and Q2 every night, sometimes up to 4 or 5 hours at a time...Guess I just needed someone to say it first to verify my theory-Everyone else was sick though...
I have used SMS for a corporation before-They pushed the install to all the machines, and yes they could control the machines with/without the users knowledge...BUT, one thing we always had to do was call the person up to have them manually activate all the services the first time (after that it saved the config)...I'm not really sure how this can be compared as the same thing. Also, the SMS software had to be installed, and without admin access to the domain-there was no way to do this unless we wanted to step around to each of the 750 machines on the network....So yes, SMS and BO2K do have similiar working features...with the exeption of how they are implemented (and in my book that is a big exception)...
I think that this is a topic the Human Race[TM] will be arguing about for the rest of existence. I agree with what you are saying, it sounds really gruesome and fortunately I have not had the opportnity to witness it. Something that is always said is that we are messing with nature, there are two sides to this story. Yeah, we've blown a hole in the ozone layer, we spray perfume in rabbits eyes, we spread diseases, we hunt for game, and we have enough recklessness to drive every organism on this planet to the point of extinction. But why is this not natural. We create these products and do these things because we_think_of them. Who are we to say that nature is NOT taking it's course? For all we know the libratory mice will take over-in the future they will dig up our remains and try to figure out how we fit in their family tree....And Mickey Mouse will be GOD! ;)