>Okay you're falling into possible dependency hype. If you use any of the more recent distributions of Suse, Debian, or RH, installing Gnucash 1.6 is trivial. In addition, the GNUcash developers are putting out a CD with everything on it (all libraries, etc).
It's not that trivial! If you don't have Gnome installed (lets say just for the case that you hate all Gnome stuff and KDE and you just use Window Maker) - you still got dependecies problems- both in Redhat, in SuSE.
CD shipment - well, shipment costs - so lets say CD + S.H costs $15 - what does this matter if I just add $10 and get direct support without mailing lists chaos (and trust me - it is chaos for end user)..
second, does it matter if your addition is accepted by the project leader in an open source product? Not in the least. Make your changes, make them available to everyone, and then sit back and let the masses decide.
yes it does - lets say that I added a whiz bang features that the project leaders didn't want to include - I have 2 choices: 1. publish somewhere my additions and hope everyone uses it, or 2. ask the linux distributions to add it - think it's that easy??
Yes, I agree with you it's easy - BUT go ask a company why they use Linux anyway...
It's the licensing issue. If I was selling embedded stuff - I would rather have grabbed Linux then CE - because I can sell much more, and I don't need the licensing or paying Microsoft for each copy. That way I can charge less the customer and probably get a good stand point to sell my products..
I'm sure that someone will make a version of Linux as easy (or easier?) to use then CE - all the players here are commercial players, and one of those will probably make it.
Well, it seems like all the upcoming Linux distributions are going to.0 now (Redhat 8.0, Mandrake 9!, SuSE 8.0) - as all the stuff are not backward compatible with 2.X (gcc 2.96 is also not compatible with 3.x nor 2.x)
Has anyone done any performance tests? some benchmarks maybe? it would be really interesting to see this GCC against the upcoming commercial Intel C/C++ compiler..
Re:But why support Athlon first?
on
nVidia nForce
·
· Score: 3
Gee, you haven't checked that for a long time - did u?
Upgrade to kernel 2.4.5 or upward - the problems is fixed there - I'm using 4 X 30GB on ATA 100 as RAID - and it works perfectly (with SB Live)
I just remembered an Idea that a friend of mine suggested:
What if IDC could work with the Linux distributions (RedHat, Mandrake, SuSE, TurboLinux, Debian) to add a small program which will run after the first internet connection has been succsessfull..
When this program runs - it will ask the user to "register" his copy of the distribution. If it has been purchased from one of the distributors - then the user can add his serial number. Some other questions like will this distribution be used as a server, a workstation, or combination of the 2, or a development workstation. The survey SHOULD be annonymous (unless the user wants to give some details about himself)
By that way - the distributors can give the numbers back to IDC - and IDC can publish a report which will tell that the number of Linux installations - and that number is X. X is combined of Y free download version and Z purchased copies of Linux.
What do you think, Dan? what the slashdot readers think about it?
According to IDC figures, the Linux desktop market share was 5% and now it's less then 2%. Gartner numbers are of course differently (way lower if I'm not mistaken)
Yet, when I look at developments of projects like XFree, KDE, Gnome, Linux kernel - or when you get the daily list from freshmeat, or even talking to the the ISP who host mirrors of ISO images of Redhat, Mandrake etc - then you see that linux get FAR more then 2%. Hell - if it was 2% and you account the developments of Linux - then each developer works 25 hours per day on a porject!
So, as you can see - the numbers here are definately wrong here - and those numbers are actually hurting the Linux community. If an ABCD company wants to make a software for the Linux desktop and they see those IDC figures - then they will say something like "oh, 2%? no thanks - we'll make it for Mac - they are %5+", and we'll loose..
Yes, some of the stuff on the drivers are closed source - but only the part which gives you dual head, and the TV out stuff, and the Macrovision part is closed also..
They cannot release the source code since most of those parts are either belong to 3rd party, or NDA signature prevents from showing the code (E.G - Macrovision)...
You'll have to decide what you want - either some close parts of the driver and 95% opened under GPL - or totally not support?
Do you have any other enviroment which supports compatibility with X? stuff like Xlib, DGA(1,2), Xv, DRI, GLX (for Nvidia), the new Renderer and RandR perhaps? what about transparent network so you can see your apps in some other place? no, ha?
Yes, if you do remember XFree 3.3.x it was very sucky sucky shitty shitty - but since then - XFree 4.x came out, you can see all the extensions I mentioned above came mostly when XFree 4.x came out.
It's constantly being developed. Geniuses people like Mark Vojkovich and Keith Packard, as many other people are helping X to keep being develop to any modern graphical enviroment.
So no, I don't think Frame buffer, nor Berlin project could make it and replace X. I still belive that X is coming into maturity and it will give you in short time what others giving today (look at the latest Rendered and RandR extensions lately and see what I mean)
While I agree with most of the stuff you write here, I've observed that you say relate the 750 to the "Desktop"..
For me - desktop machine is something that you put to the secretary at the office, to the sales, HR, PR and non developer people, or home users...
This machine is DEFINATELY not for them (ok, maybe to some slashdot readers who would really love to have a nice 4 way IA64 with 16GB RAM and 700GB RAID 10 array, and if you can - add dual 19" SGI's LCD screens, thank you).
There is a total differnece between desktop - and workstation. While Linux doesn't have much desktop share (according to IDC it's now 1% - yeah, right, Sure Barur) - the Linux Workstation area - is growing. Go call Dell or read the story on ZDNN how they specifically says that the demand and selling of Linux workstation is growing - specially as a workstations for movie studios (I.L.M, LucasFilm, and all the others), and the EDA area (board designing etc) - and THAT my friend, counts.
If those SGI sales people can sell their machines to those people mentioned above (and SGI, if you read this - PLEASE replace the crappy ATI with something better - Nvidia's Quarda could be nice) - then SGI's investors can start smiling..
Only time will tell if those SGI sales people will "get" those sales. They have points that no other company have - they have the Linux experience and they don't just install-from-CD-good-luck-amigos type - they have developed a lot for the Linux on IA-64 - and it's time to cash those investments..
Well, I'm sure that many people will tell you that the license is far away from a really open source.
Go talk to the guys at lesstif.org about the license and see why they refuse to look inside the code..
And even if I accept your statement that this is Open Source - then so? I would hardly recommend to any of my clients to buy Motif for their application - I'll recommend to use QT (specially if they want to port their applications) or GTK (if they write in C - the binding of GTK in C++ is nowhere near QT with C++)
Yeah, but go ahead and look what an experienced developer would do with his machine once it got up and running..
When I got a Sun Ultra 60 at my previous work, I installed KDE after few minutes - and that was much better then the butt-ugly CDE.
Yes, companies like HP/Sun announce that the future for them will be GTK/Gnome - but that decision came from the bottom - when most of the engineers hates Motif and CDE, so they replace..
You might want to look at the machines of most engineers in Sun are using - half of them use KDE and almost half - GNOME. Maybe 10% of them still use CDE (that number came up when I talked to several engineers from Sun from various departments).
What IBM will give you is an ENTIRE VIRTUAL MACHINE! - not just a very limited user account - but a full Linux virtual machine - with/root/usr, 128MB RAM, disk space etc..
On Compaq machine you just get an account - you cannot go to/usr/local and start installing/erasing stuff, you'll have to reconsider other users when you running you wild intense-use-of-processor app..
Re:bah -- qt the "de facto" standard?
on
Qt for Mac
·
· Score: 2
So, in case some developers just accidently got hired by another company, or they are getting tired from the zillion bug reports - and you can trust that to bring Nautilus to Gnome 2.0??
Well, I wish them the best, although I wouldn't count on that...
Well, if you want to make money on the services, then if I were eazel - I wouldn't release a 1.0 version without all the services infrastrcture embedded into it - including the ability to pay for services - and offer some services...
Unfortunately - seems that Eazel forgot that idea...
Oh well, maybe next company will learn from those mistakes
Well, at least according to their media kit that they sent me - they planned to make money with the second generation of Nautilus with AD's (yeah, right - guess how much time it will take to remove it from nautilus sources?), and only the 3rd generation of Nautilus will have infrastructure to support some buying 3rd party applications and and services...
I call this a very weak business plan - and I'm being poilte here...
excuse me, but would you mind taking a look at Ximian business plan? then compare it to reality?
Sure, they got $15 million from investments, but they only recently got CEO, so I assume they burned lots of money without almost getting any money in - those really great booths in Linux World, the stuffed monkeys that they gave, T-shirts, etc - do costs lots of money you know..
So go look at CNet report about Eazel - they tried to get some money from Sun, who, in returned kicked a polite "NO" back to Eazel. Why do you think that Sun will give money to Ximian if they'll be on the red bar in the financial terms (and they will if they won't start pulling their heads out of their butt and start charging for services like Red Carpet etc)..
If my calculations are correct (based on things I hear from people close and in Ximian) - unless they start making money NOW - they won't be existing in the next 4-5 months..
Reasonable??
Then I think you might want to skip Tyan board, as they are definately not cheap, and looking at the specs of this board and it's components - this going to be a very very expensive board..
I hope that Asus and Abit will start showing something soon, I've heard some rumors that they plan to bring Dual Athlon boards too..
Slashdot Mirror
>Okay you're falling into possible dependency hype. If you use any of the more recent distributions of Suse, Debian, or RH, installing Gnucash 1.6 is trivial. In addition, the GNUcash developers are putting out a CD with everything on it (all libraries, etc).
It's not that trivial! If you don't have Gnome installed (lets say just for the case that you hate all Gnome stuff and KDE and you just use Window Maker) - you still got dependecies problems- both in Redhat, in SuSE. CD shipment - well, shipment costs - so lets say CD + S.H costs $15 - what does this matter if I just add $10 and get direct support without mailing lists chaos (and trust me - it is chaos for end user)..
second, does it matter if your addition is accepted by the project leader in an open source product? Not in the least. Make your changes, make them available to everyone, and then sit back and let the masses decide.
yes it does - lets say that I added a whiz bang features that the project leaders didn't want to include - I have 2 choices: 1. publish somewhere my additions and hope everyone uses it, or 2. ask the linux distributions to add it - think it's that easy??
YoGy
Yes, I agree with you it's easy - BUT go ask a company why they use Linux anyway...
It's the licensing issue. If I was selling embedded stuff - I would rather have grabbed Linux then CE - because I can sell much more, and I don't need the licensing or paying Microsoft for each copy. That way I can charge less the customer and probably get a good stand point to sell my products..
I'm sure that someone will make a version of Linux as easy (or easier?) to use then CE - all the players here are commercial players, and one of those will probably make it.
Yes, it stops GNapster, Knapster, nap, webnap...
No it's not...
Start Windows and look for a program called "dvdplay" - run it - and you'll see it's missing 1 part - the DirectShow part with DVD encoding...
That part needs to be purchased from one of the Windows DVD players companies around..
Any bets of time estimation untill those navigation features will be inside mplayer, Xine and other players?? ;))
Well, it seems like all the upcoming Linux distributions are going to .0 now (Redhat 8.0, Mandrake 9!, SuSE 8.0) - as all the stuff are not backward compatible with 2.X (gcc 2.96 is also not compatible with 3.x nor 2.x)
Has anyone done any performance tests? some benchmarks maybe? it would be really interesting to see this GCC against the upcoming commercial Intel C/C++ compiler..
Gee, you haven't checked that for a long time - did u?
Upgrade to kernel 2.4.5 or upward - the problems is fixed there - I'm using 4 X 30GB on ATA 100 as RAID - and it works perfectly (with SB Live)
I just remembered an Idea that a friend of mine suggested:
What if IDC could work with the Linux distributions (RedHat, Mandrake, SuSE, TurboLinux, Debian) to add a small program which will run after the first internet connection has been succsessfull..
When this program runs - it will ask the user to "register" his copy of the distribution. If it has been purchased from one of the distributors - then the user can add his serial number. Some other questions like will this distribution be used as a server, a workstation, or combination of the 2, or a development workstation. The survey SHOULD be annonymous (unless the user wants to give some details about himself)
By that way - the distributors can give the numbers back to IDC - and IDC can publish a report which will tell that the number of Linux installations - and that number is X. X is combined of Y free download version and Z purchased copies of Linux.
What do you think, Dan? what the slashdot readers think about it?
Hi Dan,
According to IDC figures, the Linux desktop market share was 5% and now it's less then 2%. Gartner numbers are of course differently (way lower if I'm not mistaken)
Yet, when I look at developments of projects like XFree, KDE, Gnome, Linux kernel - or when you get the daily list from freshmeat, or even talking to the the ISP who host mirrors of ISO images of Redhat, Mandrake etc - then you see that linux get FAR more then 2%. Hell - if it was 2% and you account the developments of Linux - then each developer works 25 hours per day on a porject!
So, as you can see - the numbers here are definately wrong here - and those numbers are actually hurting the Linux community. If an ABCD company wants to make a software for the Linux desktop and they see those IDC figures - then they will say something like "oh, 2%? no thanks - we'll make it for Mac - they are %5+", and we'll loose..
Comments?
Yes, some of the stuff on the drivers are closed source - but only the part which gives you dual head, and the TV out stuff, and the Macrovision part is closed also..
They cannot release the source code since most of those parts are either belong to 3rd party, or NDA signature prevents from showing the code (E.G - Macrovision)...
You'll have to decide what you want - either some close parts of the driver and 95% opened under GPL - or totally not support?
I'll go with choise 1
And why replace it exactly?
Do you have any other enviroment which supports compatibility with X? stuff like Xlib, DGA(1,2), Xv, DRI, GLX (for Nvidia), the new Renderer and RandR perhaps? what about transparent network so you can see your apps in some other place? no, ha?
Yes, if you do remember XFree 3.3.x it was very sucky sucky shitty shitty - but since then - XFree 4.x came out, you can see all the extensions I mentioned above came mostly when XFree 4.x came out.
It's constantly being developed. Geniuses people like Mark Vojkovich and Keith Packard, as many other people are helping X to keep being develop to any modern graphical enviroment.
So no, I don't think Frame buffer, nor Berlin project could make it and replace X. I still belive that X is coming into maturity and it will give you in short time what others giving today (look at the latest Rendered and RandR extensions lately and see what I mean)
no, thats for DEVELOPMENT - not for end user.
;)
A developer could create a CD with minimal Linux boot + enhanced Framebuffer or MicroWindows + minimal services for the Linux - and the game itself.
All you have to do is just put the cd in - wait for the game to load, and play...
Not bad, eh?
While I agree with most of the stuff you write here, I've observed that you say relate the 750 to the "Desktop"..
For me - desktop machine is something that you put to the secretary at the office, to the sales, HR, PR and non developer people, or home users...
This machine is DEFINATELY not for them (ok, maybe to some slashdot readers who would really love to have a nice 4 way IA64 with 16GB RAM and 700GB RAID 10 array, and if you can - add dual 19" SGI's LCD screens, thank you).
There is a total differnece between desktop - and workstation. While Linux doesn't have much desktop share (according to IDC it's now 1% - yeah, right, Sure Barur) - the Linux Workstation area - is growing. Go call Dell or read the story on ZDNN how they specifically says that the demand and selling of Linux workstation is growing - specially as a workstations for movie studios (I.L.M, LucasFilm, and all the others), and the EDA area (board designing etc) - and THAT my friend, counts.
If those SGI sales people can sell their machines to those people mentioned above (and SGI, if you read this - PLEASE replace the crappy ATI with something better - Nvidia's Quarda could be nice) - then SGI's investors can start smiling..
Only time will tell if those SGI sales people will "get" those sales. They have points that no other company have - they have the Linux experience and they don't just install-from-CD-good-luck-amigos type - they have developed a lot for the Linux on IA-64 - and it's time to cash those investments..
Good Luck SGI.
Well, I'm sure that many people will tell you that the license is far away from a really open source.
Go talk to the guys at lesstif.org about the license and see why they refuse to look inside the code..
And even if I accept your statement that this is Open Source - then so? I would hardly recommend to any of my clients to buy Motif for their application - I'll recommend to use QT (specially if they want to port their applications) or GTK (if they write in C - the binding of GTK in C++ is nowhere near QT with C++)
Motif is D.E.A.D - live with it!
Yeah, but go ahead and look what an experienced developer would do with his machine once it got up and running..
When I got a Sun Ultra 60 at my previous work, I installed KDE after few minutes - and that was much better then the butt-ugly CDE.
Yes, companies like HP/Sun announce that the future for them will be GTK/Gnome - but that decision came from the bottom - when most of the engineers hates Motif and CDE, so they replace..
You might want to look at the machines of most engineers in Sun are using - half of them use KDE and almost half - GNOME. Maybe 10% of them still use CDE (that number came up when I talked to several engineers from Sun from various departments).
No no, some people do miss a thing here..
/root /usr, 128MB RAM, disk space etc..
/usr/local and start installing/erasing stuff, you'll have to reconsider other users when you running you wild intense-use-of-processor app..
What IBM will give you is an ENTIRE VIRTUAL MACHINE! - not just a very limited user account - but a full Linux virtual machine - with
On Compaq machine you just get an account - you cannot go to
Yup, indeed - Opera uses QT libs..
Oh yeah, commited...
So, in case some developers just accidently got hired by another company, or they are getting tired from the zillion bug reports - and you can trust that to bring Nautilus to Gnome 2.0??
Well, I wish them the best, although I wouldn't count on that...
Gee, then I wonder why it works perfectly under Konqueror 2.2 beta 1..
On mozilla 0.9 it doesn't, however. just crashes..
Well, if you want to make money on the services, then if I were eazel - I wouldn't release a 1.0 version without all the services infrastrcture embedded into it - including the ability to pay for services - and offer some services...
Unfortunately - seems that Eazel forgot that idea...
Oh well, maybe next company will learn from those mistakes
Well, at least according to their media kit that they sent me - they planned to make money with the second generation of Nautilus with AD's (yeah, right - guess how much time it will take to remove it from nautilus sources?), and only the 3rd generation of Nautilus will have infrastructure to support some buying 3rd party applications and and services...
I call this a very weak business plan - and I'm being poilte here...
excuse me, but would you mind taking a look at Ximian business plan? then compare it to reality?
Sure, they got $15 million from investments, but they only recently got CEO, so I assume they burned lots of money without almost getting any money in - those really great booths in Linux World, the stuffed monkeys that they gave, T-shirts, etc - do costs lots of money you know..
So go look at CNet report about Eazel - they tried to get some money from Sun, who, in returned kicked a polite "NO" back to Eazel. Why do you think that Sun will give money to Ximian if they'll be on the red bar in the financial terms (and they will if they won't start pulling their heads out of their butt and start charging for services like Red Carpet etc)..
If my calculations are correct (based on things I hear from people close and in Ximian) - unless they start making money NOW - they won't be existing in the next 4-5 months..
Reasonable??
Then I think you might want to skip Tyan board, as they are definately not cheap, and looking at the specs of this board and it's components - this going to be a very very expensive board..
I hope that Asus and Abit will start showing something soon, I've heard some rumors that they plan to bring Dual Athlon boards too..
They do, but it's for Internet Appliances like Gateway sold and Intel's one (both of them running Linux)
IE is free for use on Solaris, HP/UX and AIX...