Can't one always be able to set up a hub to forward traffic from a LAN to the outside world with detection being almost impossible no matter what protocols the cable company use?
It doesn't seem to make any sense to me... Why doesn't the cable company just limit bandwidth? That seems like the fare thing to do...
Yeah, I was actually thinking that but didn't post it. I'm suprised that this is all being made public. If I were a terrorist, it seems that all I would have to do is read the news and know exactly what not to do.
That's scary. Java is being used as the development platform for DD-21. Not only will it be controlling aircraft, it will also be control all sorts of stuff that are directly related to national security. I guess the DoD forgot to read the click through license;-)
Many people don't realize how all this relates to each other. I actually hear people talk about farming human clones as odd as that sounds.
What this is about is simply cloning a human embryonic stem cell, so that it can be used to grow human organs. Not human beings. That is all that anyone is trying to do. No one is attempting to use human beings are organ containers.
What I really want to see is if they used DNA from an adult human or another embryo. I have heard that the biggest hurdle is going to be using adult DNA so this could or could not be the holy grail...
This is Microsoft's wet dream... If the holes the FBI uses are unique, then the holes will be classified to protect the FBIs ability to monitor terrorists (therefore protecting national security). That means, they will have the ability to stop security exploits from being published in the interests of national security.
The rest of the world is at war with us. Bin Laden and all those oil tycons have declared war on the US. It's not about religion or anything else, but it's about money. And if you honestly don't think that a way is going on, then go to New York and take a look at the front lines.
That's total bullshit about the Red Cross warehouse. It was propaganda put out by the Taliban. It was never substaniated.
I'll tell you what happened in Somalia, our solidiers went in on a peace keeping mission trying to feed the starving people who weren't receiving the food being sent to them because of the troops from their civil war were preventing it from getting there.
So, to show their graditude, the somilians killed the solidiers and drug their bodies through the streets so that the whole city could descrate the bodies. Peace keepers...
I think it's time to grow up and see the world for what it really is. There are bad people in the world and they need to be dealt with.
And yes, I'm posting this with my nick because I am not a karma whore. Tad bit ironic to critize so heavily anonymously...
Everyone seems to forget. We are in a war. It's as simple as that. We were frigging bombed with our own planes and lost ~5000 cilivians.
This isn't some silly exercise of whose dick is bigger, this is a war so we can be safe in our own country. The fact that we are dropping bombs with such precision that we only destroy the air strips on the airport as to not totally destroy the airport is friggin incredible.
So what, we missed a few times. People are kicking and screaming but we aren't fire bombing like we did in Dresden and we're not dropping atomic weapons like we did in Japan.
But even those above things are justified because it is war. War is a part of human nature and it's winner take all. Period.
We have to trust the intellegence community has solid evidence against these companies. It would be political sucide if they didn't.
It's horrible that the Somalians have essentially been shut off from the outside world but while such an action may have negative short term effects, it will benefit the Somalians in the long run.
If these companies are washing money for terrorist groups they are obviously corrupt. The next question is what other bad things have these companies done.
Hopefully, this will open up the market to another honest company that will in the long run benefit the Somalians.
Ahh, you speak to quickly without understanding my point (I imagine your not a programmer).
People abuse threads trying to solve all of their problems with threading. People instantly think threads make their program better but often times they are used incorrectly.
The proper use of threads involves multiple distinct aspects of an application that need to communicate with each other but in no other way would benefit from being a single thread. I was emphasizing a point outside the scope of what I was discussing in my post. This also is why I took the trouble to emphasize at all.
I hear these arguments alot, but they are just not right.
1. multi-processor scaling, generally a no brainer with seperate processes, if they are broken up intelligently
This is what threads are for. Now, there has to be communications amoung the processes and the overhead to accomplish this is greatly reduced if done in a single application. Now, you can bitch about programming threads but if you can break the program into entirely seperate processes, you shouldn't have to worry about race conditions since you code is already so seperate.
2. reduced memory foot print - well broken up processes mean you don't have to worry about loading up a ton of libraries all at once, you can let the os deal with memory as processes are kicked off and finished
Well, one would hope that if multiple processes need to be using a common library that it be made into a shared library. There is only ever one instance of a shared library in memory. The little bit about avoiding memory leakage by having processes restart frequently requires a great deal of latency when actions occur. If your application can handle this latency, and you want to be that lazy about programming, then just have your application restart every n minutes.
3. security - different processes can be run as untrusting groups, a great boon especially if one processes needs to run as root!
There are very few circumstances when a process should ever have to run as root. Why do a bunch of apps have to run in a group whereas a single app can't? If an application absolutely requires some bit of access to resources only given to root, then having that application just exist presents a huge problem since you are effectively making a resource that many smart people think shouldn't be given to arbitrary applications and giving it to them.
qmail is written in C, and this is definitely the C way to do things, but in C++, objects present a much cleaner interface to all of this. That is the beauty of OOD. qmail really should be written in C++ if there is such to encapsulate things. (although OOD is accomplishable in C, albeit very, very ugly).
It's book burning time. Well, we don't have flame resistant houses, but I'm sure the fire departments will gladly assist in the destruction of so called "sensitive documents." While there at it, lets destroy all books too because they only make people unhappy.
It's ok for certain things to be classified, because for something to be classified, it must be registered and must be deemed worthy to classify by two government officials. There are checks and balances to make sure that things aren't just classified for no apparent reason.
Just deciding that something is sensitive and then making all these rules about giving access to it is just ridiculus. Anyone can access classified information too, they just have to be able to demonstrate a Need-To-Know and have received appriorate security clearance.
So now, you can be deined access if your background is shady and to be able to view this material, you must present a need to know.
Gee, sounds to me like there is a new level of classification that is bi-passing the safeguards of classification.
If it can be reasonably assumed, that the undisclosed release of this information is likely to cause damage to national security, then it should be classified and be treated with all the same safe guards as anything else that is confidential.
What this is, is a loop-hole. And it probably is illegal.
The GNU Compiler (gcc/g++) runs on so many platforms so it should solve a lot of portability issues. CommonC++ is a GNU library for threading and I also believe it can handle network IO.
Now, I always heard that NT is supposedly Posix compliant so it might not be terribly difficult...
This box must have some kind of bandwidth control because I can't believe a CISCO website would get slashdotted.
This has to look bad for CISCO.
Now would be a good time to mod up those mirrors instead of modding them down for karma whoring...
Re:Assuming that Java has that firm of a market...
on
C# To Crush Java?
·
· Score: 1
But, it's been hugely successful in writing the kinds of software that businesses think about. (Servers, messaging, etc...) Java is excellent for
writing middleware services, as a back-end to web pages, and the things that actually run a company day-to-day.
These applications aren't the high-visibility ones though. It's not like Java is replacing C++, it's just that Java is replace a mix between shell scripts, perl, python, and various other scripting languages.
You can develop on cheap windows workstations and deploy the code (without recompiling) on your
Sun servers.
While this sounds neat, it's not very pratical. Everyone large application has something in it that needs to be done in native code. This is not necessarily Java's fault, it's just the difference between underlying operating systems. There are so many areas that Java just can't cover (file perm, ipcs, sockets*, etc.).
Java works great as a niche language. That niche is small web-apps and GUI interfaces. Programs that do heavy processing or perform any kind of critical task just can't do it in Java.
I don't hate java. I hate Python, but that's a whole other thread;-)
Note: Windows barely supports a subset of standard berkley sockets and therefore Java barely touchs on having all the functionality of sockets in Unix (i.e. domain sockets).
EULA are not the same as a license that a commerical vendor uses for a commerical product.
Remember, most software development is not for the average user. Click-throughs don't mean anything because even if M$ did take responsibility, it wouldn't matter much.
It's the difference between HP-UX and Linux for example. If a company is using Linux and discovers that it is having packet-loss because of a kernel bug, they have to either a) fix it themselves or b) wait for a fix to get made. You better believe though that when a commerical user has a problem with HP-UX, there can be major problems for HP if HP doesn't fix it very quickly.
Sorry, I meant that the action creator is in the desktop apps folder.
wacking off in front of it... Very civil.
It's/., you have to flame a little atleast...
AFAIK, there is no other screen lock program that ships with CDE. CDE is the Common Desktop Environment and therefore defines what apps should and should not be there. If you have something installed other than xscreen-saver, you are not running a CDE compliant desktop (Note: CDE is not a distribution, but rather a standard).
CDE is cool, but I also prefer a more modern system. It just gets to me that people rant about CDE when people don't realize that while everyone was pissing around in Midnight Command, CDE was kicking ass and taking names.
I don't know, I guess I feel obligated to question if this course is such a good idea to begin with.
The fact of the matter is that we don't exist in a super-hyped economy where any goof with a course or two can get a job. The market is tight for stuff like web developers.
What I would recommend is introducing web concepts such TCP/IP, Markup Languages, and various graphics formats. From there, another course should be taken to either specialize in web design (which of course, is graphics oriented), or a web development pathway which would require a basis in programming.
People may recommend PHP, ASP, or whatever but the fact of the matter is that you need skills to compete in today's market and you cannot be a competive web programmer without a specialization or some kind of fundamental basis of programming.
I understand that this is a "fast-track" course but one can go only so fast. There is a fine line between accelerated learning and a scam...
Come up with a useful improved desktop environment that increases productivity by introducing 3d.
Why do you assume 3d increases productivity? Our site is 2d with the third dimension (depth) being a calculation our brain has to make. Many studies have proven that the human mind responds quicker to plain, 2d geometric shapes (boxes, and triangles), than it does to complete 2d pictures or 3d images.
A 3d desktop is just simply a buzz-word. While something other than the current paradigm is bound to be more productive, the answer is probably in the presentation of maximum amount of info in the limited 2d space.
GPL is good and bad. Many times, when software is developed, there is the desired product, and then the offsprings of the product either to make the product easier to develop, or to improve performance.
Almost all large companies have subdivisions and many projects, and inevitably, a commitee is usually formed to take alot of this duplicate effort and condense and reuse it. See, code sharing is something that occurs at all levels and is a natural thing give the nature of programming.
Not everything should be GPL'd. Things that go through a QA process or things that have some kind of assurance of quality should not be GPL'd since the GPL releases the creator of any liability which would be counterproductive. Often times though, in the commerical sector, code is also provide with a product since that way the customer can modify it to suit their needs since most companies don't want to be bothered with custom features.
Your post seemed though-out although posting as an AC doesn't help your cause...
Assuming that Java has that firm of a market...
on
C# To Crush Java?
·
· Score: 1, Troll
The biggest problem with this article is that it is making the assumption that java has a strong hold in the market. The fact of the matter is, java is not being used extensive in commerical software and is being used as mainly a GUI abstraction layer in properitery software.
Many people hear that this company is using java and that company is using java, but the fact of the matter is that while java is being used, most of the code in products still remains C and C++ or another such language.
Java is not something that is a silver bullet language. It is a niche language.
First of all, your initial grips about window behavior is undue since all of those options are configurable! This is just how your admin set up the defaults to be. This can be changed.
Actions are super easy to create and are much more versitile and useful than window shortcuts. The is a program that should be in your desktop apps folder.
Windows is only intuitive because you've spent your life wacking off in front of it and have gotten use to how it behaves. You have no right trashing a system that you absolutely do not understand. It's like driving a porche when you've only ever driven a bicycle...
CDE is ugly because it supports a very large range of platforms and therefore needs to be scalable. It's default values will work on most systems but it can be configured to be just as pretty as windows.
Gnome is superior by all means, but CDE blows Windows out of the water.
BTW: xlock is an X-Windows program and has absolutely nothing to do with CDE.
Pros and Cons of Perl
on
Perl6 for Mortals
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
To me, perl seems to have so many good points but at the same time seems to have a bunch of bad points.
The great thing about perl is that you can do anything in it. It also provides a good mechanism to abstract high-level concepts from the end-developer. The fact that it also provides low-level interfaces allows for one of the most flexible languages that I've ever used.
The problem with perl is that it is bloated. IMHO, a good programming language is simply, yet eligant. There should not be five ways to do something. There should also not be duplicate operators that accomplish the same purpose.
Operator overloading is one of those dangerous areas of C++ because it used improperly, it can create code that is unbelievably mantainable. Unless strict standards are followed when developing perl, perl is almost doomed to be horribly unmaintainable.
Even with all my criticisms, I would still use perl any day to lisp... It's great for little scripts. Perl6 seems to be moving in a general direction to make code even more unmaintainable.
Slashdot Mirror
Can't one always be able to set up a hub to forward traffic from a LAN to the outside world with detection being almost impossible no matter what protocols the cable company use?
It doesn't seem to make any sense to me... Why doesn't the cable company just limit bandwidth? That seems like the fare thing to do...
lol
Yeah, I was actually thinking that but didn't post it. I'm suprised that this is all being made public. If I were a terrorist, it seems that all I would have to do is read the news and know exactly what not to do.
Doesn't make any sense to me...
One would think though that this isn't a very good long term solution.
From what I read, it seems that they tried doing it with adult human skin cells but failed so then used a female egg injected with a embryonic cell.
i don't know if they can cultivate those cells without destroy the fetus so that might not even be an option.
That's scary. Java is being used as the development platform for DD-21. Not only will it be controlling aircraft, it will also be control all sorts of stuff that are directly related to national security. I guess the DoD forgot to read the click through license ;-)
Many people don't realize how all this relates to each other. I actually hear people talk about farming human clones as odd as that sounds.
What this is about is simply cloning a human embryonic stem cell, so that it can be used to grow human organs. Not human beings. That is all that anyone is trying to do. No one is attempting to use human beings are organ containers.
What I really want to see is if they used DNA from an adult human or another embryo. I have heard that the biggest hurdle is going to be using adult DNA so this could or could not be the holy grail...
And I'd really like to read the article so could the karma whores please post a mirror?
This is Microsoft's wet dream... If the holes the FBI uses are unique, then the holes will be classified to protect the FBIs ability to monitor terrorists (therefore protecting national security). That means, they will have the ability to stop security exploits from being published in the interests of national security.
The rest of the world is at war with us. Bin Laden and all those oil tycons have declared war on the US. It's not about religion or anything else, but it's about money. And if you honestly don't think that a way is going on, then go to New York and take a look at the front lines.
That's total bullshit about the Red Cross warehouse. It was propaganda put out by the Taliban. It was never substaniated.
I'll tell you what happened in Somalia, our solidiers went in on a peace keeping mission trying to feed the starving people who weren't receiving the food being sent to them because of the troops from their civil war were preventing it from getting there.
So, to show their graditude, the somilians killed the solidiers and drug their bodies through the streets so that the whole city could descrate the bodies. Peace keepers...
I think it's time to grow up and see the world for what it really is. There are bad people in the world and they need to be dealt with.
And yes, I'm posting this with my nick because I am not a karma whore. Tad bit ironic to critize so heavily anonymously...
Everyone seems to forget. We are in a war. It's as simple as that. We were frigging bombed with our own planes and lost ~5000 cilivians.
This isn't some silly exercise of whose dick is bigger, this is a war so we can be safe in our own country. The fact that we are dropping bombs with such precision that we only destroy the air strips on the airport as to not totally destroy the airport is friggin incredible.
So what, we missed a few times. People are kicking and screaming but we aren't fire bombing like we did in Dresden and we're not dropping atomic weapons like we did in Japan.
But even those above things are justified because it is war. War is a part of human nature and it's winner take all. Period.
We have to trust the intellegence community has solid evidence against these companies. It would be political sucide if they didn't.
It's horrible that the Somalians have essentially been shut off from the outside world but while such an action may have negative short term effects, it will benefit the Somalians in the long run.
If these companies are washing money for terrorist groups they are obviously corrupt. The next question is what other bad things have these companies done.
Hopefully, this will open up the market to another honest company that will in the long run benefit the Somalians.
Ahh, you speak to quickly without understanding my point (I imagine your not a programmer).
People abuse threads trying to solve all of their problems with threading. People instantly think threads make their program better but often times they are used incorrectly.
The proper use of threads involves multiple distinct aspects of an application that need to communicate with each other but in no other way would benefit from being a single thread. I was emphasizing a point outside the scope of what I was discussing in my post. This also is why I took the trouble to emphasize at all.
I hear these arguments alot, but they are just not right.
1. multi-processor scaling, generally a no brainer with seperate processes, if they are broken up intelligently
This is what threads are for. Now, there has to be communications amoung the processes and the overhead to accomplish this is greatly reduced if done in a single application. Now, you can bitch about programming threads but if you can break the program into entirely seperate processes, you shouldn't have to worry about race conditions since you code is already so seperate.
2. reduced memory foot print - well broken up processes mean you don't have to worry about loading up a ton of libraries all at once, you can let the os deal with memory as processes are kicked off and finished
Well, one would hope that if multiple processes need to be using a common library that it be made into a shared library. There is only ever one instance of a shared library in memory. The little bit about avoiding memory leakage by having processes restart frequently requires a great deal of latency when actions occur. If your application can handle this latency, and you want to be that lazy about programming, then just have your application restart every n minutes.
3. security - different processes can be run as untrusting groups, a great boon especially if one processes needs to run as root!
There are very few circumstances when a process should ever have to run as root. Why do a bunch of apps have to run in a group whereas a single app can't? If an application absolutely requires some bit of access to resources only given to root, then having that application just exist presents a huge problem since you are effectively making a resource that many smart people think shouldn't be given to arbitrary applications and giving it to them.
qmail is written in C, and this is definitely the C way to do things, but in C++, objects present a much cleaner interface to all of this. That is the beauty of OOD. qmail really should be written in C++ if there is such to encapsulate things. (although OOD is accomplishable in C, albeit very, very ugly).
It's book burning time. Well, we don't have flame resistant houses, but I'm sure the fire departments will gladly assist in the destruction of so called "sensitive documents." While there at it, lets destroy all books too because they only make people unhappy.
It's ok for certain things to be classified, because for something to be classified, it must be registered and must be deemed worthy to classify by two government officials. There are checks and balances to make sure that things aren't just classified for no apparent reason.
Just deciding that something is sensitive and then making all these rules about giving access to it is just ridiculus. Anyone can access classified information too, they just have to be able to demonstrate a Need-To-Know and have received appriorate security clearance.
So now, you can be deined access if your background is shady and to be able to view this material, you must present a need to know.
Gee, sounds to me like there is a new level of classification that is bi-passing the safeguards of classification.
If it can be reasonably assumed, that the undisclosed release of this information is likely to cause damage to national security, then it should be classified and be treated with all the same safe guards as anything else that is confidential.
What this is, is a loop-hole. And it probably is illegal.
The GNU Compiler (gcc/g++) runs on so many platforms so it should solve a lot of portability issues. CommonC++ is a GNU library for threading and I also believe it can handle network IO.
Now, I always heard that NT is supposedly Posix compliant so it might not be terribly difficult...
Believe it or not, the site is slashdotted....
This box must have some kind of bandwidth control because I can't believe a CISCO website would get slashdotted.
This has to look bad for CISCO.
Now would be a good time to mod up those mirrors instead of modding them down for karma whoring...
But, it's been hugely successful in writing the kinds of software that businesses think about. (Servers, messaging, etc...) Java is excellent for
;-)
writing middleware services, as a back-end to web pages, and the things that actually run a company day-to-day.
These applications aren't the high-visibility ones though. It's not like Java is replacing C++, it's just that Java is replace a mix between shell scripts, perl, python, and various other scripting languages.
You can develop on cheap windows workstations and deploy the code (without recompiling) on your
Sun servers.
While this sounds neat, it's not very pratical. Everyone large application has something in it that needs to be done in native code. This is not necessarily Java's fault, it's just the difference between underlying operating systems. There are so many areas that Java just can't cover (file perm, ipcs, sockets*, etc.).
Java works great as a niche language. That niche is small web-apps and GUI interfaces. Programs that do heavy processing or perform any kind of critical task just can't do it in Java.
I don't hate java. I hate Python, but that's a whole other thread
Note: Windows barely supports a subset of standard berkley sockets and therefore Java barely touchs on having all the functionality of sockets in Unix (i.e. domain sockets).
EULA are not the same as a license that a commerical vendor uses for a commerical product.
Remember, most software development is not for the average user. Click-throughs don't mean anything because even if M$ did take responsibility, it wouldn't matter much.
It's the difference between HP-UX and Linux for example. If a company is using Linux and discovers that it is having packet-loss because of a kernel bug, they have to either a) fix it themselves or b) wait for a fix to get made. You better believe though that when a commerical user has a problem with HP-UX, there can be major problems for HP if HP doesn't fix it very quickly.
Sorry, I meant that the action creator is in the desktop apps folder.
/., you have to flame a little atleast...
wacking off in front of it... Very civil.
It's
AFAIK, there is no other screen lock program that ships with CDE. CDE is the Common Desktop Environment and therefore defines what apps should and should not be there. If you have something installed other than xscreen-saver, you are not running a CDE compliant desktop (Note: CDE is not a distribution, but rather a standard).
CDE is cool, but I also prefer a more modern system. It just gets to me that people rant about CDE when people don't realize that while everyone was pissing around in Midnight Command, CDE was kicking ass and taking names.
I don't know, I guess I feel obligated to question if this course is such a good idea to begin with.
The fact of the matter is that we don't exist in a super-hyped economy where any goof with a course or two can get a job. The market is tight for stuff like web developers.
What I would recommend is introducing web concepts such TCP/IP, Markup Languages, and various graphics formats. From there, another course should be taken to either specialize in web design (which of course, is graphics oriented), or a web development pathway which would require a basis in programming.
People may recommend PHP, ASP, or whatever but the fact of the matter is that you need skills to compete in today's market and you cannot be a competive web programmer without a specialization or some kind of fundamental basis of programming.
I understand that this is a "fast-track" course but one can go only so fast. There is a fine line between accelerated learning and a scam...
No one had ever thought that Unix should be running on PCs. Unix was designed as a cutting edge system for very very fast supercomputers.
Unix has evolved incredibly fast over the past 30 years so much so that now, it is actually becoming a *gasp* user-friendly PC operating system.
That's pretty incredible in my book.
Come up with a useful improved desktop environment that increases productivity by introducing 3d.
Why do you assume 3d increases productivity? Our site is 2d with the third dimension (depth) being a calculation our brain has to make. Many studies have proven that the human mind responds quicker to plain, 2d geometric shapes (boxes, and triangles), than it does to complete 2d pictures or 3d images.
A 3d desktop is just simply a buzz-word. While something other than the current paradigm is bound to be more productive, the answer is probably in the presentation of maximum amount of info in the limited 2d space.
GPL is good and bad. Many times, when software is developed, there is the desired product, and then the offsprings of the product either to make the product easier to develop, or to improve performance.
Almost all large companies have subdivisions and many projects, and inevitably, a commitee is usually formed to take alot of this duplicate effort and condense and reuse it. See, code sharing is something that occurs at all levels and is a natural thing give the nature of programming.
Not everything should be GPL'd. Things that go through a QA process or things that have some kind of assurance of quality should not be GPL'd since the GPL releases the creator of any liability which would be counterproductive. Often times though, in the commerical sector, code is also provide with a product since that way the customer can modify it to suit their needs since most companies don't want to be bothered with custom features.
Your post seemed though-out although posting as an AC doesn't help your cause...
The biggest problem with this article is that it is making the assumption that java has a strong hold in the market. The fact of the matter is, java is not being used extensive in commerical software and is being used as mainly a GUI abstraction layer in properitery software.
Many people hear that this company is using java and that company is using java, but the fact of the matter is that while java is being used, most of the code in products still remains C and C++ or another such language.
Java is not something that is a silver bullet language. It is a niche language.
First of all, your initial grips about window behavior is undue since all of those options are configurable! This is just how your admin set up the defaults to be. This can be changed.
Actions are super easy to create and are much more versitile and useful than window shortcuts. The is a program that should be in your desktop apps folder.
Windows is only intuitive because you've spent your life wacking off in front of it and have gotten use to how it behaves. You have no right trashing a system that you absolutely do not understand. It's like driving a porche when you've only ever driven a bicycle...
CDE is ugly because it supports a very large range of platforms and therefore needs to be scalable. It's default values will work on most systems but it can be configured to be just as pretty as windows.
Gnome is superior by all means, but CDE blows Windows out of the water.
BTW: xlock is an X-Windows program and has absolutely nothing to do with CDE.
To me, perl seems to have so many good points but at the same time seems to have a bunch of bad points.
The great thing about perl is that you can do anything in it. It also provides a good mechanism to abstract high-level concepts from the end-developer. The fact that it also provides low-level interfaces allows for one of the most flexible languages that I've ever used.
The problem with perl is that it is bloated. IMHO, a good programming language is simply, yet eligant. There should not be five ways to do something. There should also not be duplicate operators that accomplish the same purpose.
Operator overloading is one of those dangerous areas of C++ because it used improperly, it can create code that is unbelievably mantainable. Unless strict standards are followed when developing perl, perl is almost doomed to be horribly unmaintainable.
Even with all my criticisms, I would still use perl any day to lisp... It's great for little scripts. Perl6 seems to be moving in a general direction to make code even more unmaintainable.