Slashdot Mirror
Linking Hardware To Wetware
Vikki_R. writes: "Wired has an article about grafting a microelectric circuit directly onto a human brain cell. Researchers at the University of Texas at Austin have been working on developing an interface between semiconductors and neurons. Imagine being able to give your computer a piece of your mind ..." Update: 11/25 22:54 GMT by T : Here's an earlier post linking to a different article on the same research.
When can I plug in to the Matrix?
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Isn't Caltech the leader in this area?
What happens when you're stuck with a once-only 1.0 beta wetware implant and your friends are getting 8.0 upgradable bioware?
I could see this being used to control artificial limbs rather then control computers. It would be neat to have a brain w/o a body to give your computer "logic" and reason.
Carpe meam simiam!
My friends have always said my memory stinks...now I can finally get it upgraded! ;-)
Every time a guy gets a threesome, somewhere in heaven an angel gets his wings. --Cary Tennis
Then. Back then, we made $2.00 per hour.
Than. I am cuter than you.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
I am cuter than you.
I seriously doubt that!
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Or a peice of my software to my mine ;-)
They'll try to stick Pentium 4's into our skulls.
Raise your hand if you hate those commercials...
tcd004
There are a lot of benefits that can come from this type of technology. The first thing that comes to mind is restoring sight to those who have optic nerve or retinal damage, situations where the optical facilities of the brain are still functional. Hearing has been restored for people with what are called coclear (sp?) implants. I think if the blind could someday be made to see, it would be pretty awesome.
On the other hand, I worry about things like the memory implant that was suggested in a recent poll. I don't doubt for a minute that people would jump at an opportunity to have some implant to make them smarter. Worse yet, these things would probably be offered by the scariest companies, one I don't feel I need to mention. Who knows what Sci-fi nightmares could come true.
I suspect by the time they have this issue sufficiently researched and tested, wireless connections will be pretty much commonplace over much of the world. Imagine being able to THINK of something and have relevant information directly IN your brain. No more going to the library (does anyone ever do that anymore? It's all I had growing up!), no more 'surfing the web' to find information. It'll all just be THERE - ready for mental ingestion without physically having to DO much work.
:/
I also think about how this will be abused - IM and 'wireless' ads are two that come to mind. Billboards and ads are annoying enough, but you can turn off the TV/Radio, or close your eyes, or look at something else. Imagine NEVER being able to get away from this stuff - mentally, I mean. It'd be pumped into your brain directly - those stupid human body filters like your eyes, feet, etc. won't be able to stop those ads from embedding themselves into your brain...
I know, it's all farfetched, and I kind doubt I'll see widespread adoption of this in my lifetime. But for any possible UPSIDE of this, I see way too many downsides.
creation science book
The Propehets' words come true ;o)
What if we could install operating systems on our brains?
This'll be a big area of expansion for Linux. Everyone will install it rather than Windows so that they don't crash their minds.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I just can't wait till M$ gets a hold on this one.... Looks like those MCSE's are one step closer to getting that new Windows XP Collective implant Or better yet maybe we can have the senate mandate that all users of computers are required to have the implant.
...that i am having a bad case of carnivore today!
Imagine being able to give your computer a piece of your mind ..."
i don't know about you fellas, but i'd rather give my mind a piece of my computer.
can't wait to install my new Ultra ATA spinal column
----- "Oh, Stewardess! I speak l33t!"
What's wrong with just being human, anyway? So long as you forget about George W Bush, it's not that bad of a club to belong to-- you can almost take pride in it!
reminds me of futurama, and the egg...
If slashdot editors actually read slashdot:
Nerve Cells Connected to Semi-Conductors
--Blair
"I won't expect Wired editors ever to be that clueful."
If I am not mistaken, they have already taken the brain of a sea lamprey and connected it to a motor on wheels (and it actually moved around on it's own, until the brain die), so this is sorta old news then, huh?
The full arcticle is here
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
hmm, I wonder what govmt agencies will blame problems and delays on when we get neurolinks, "Oh I'm sorry, your application got lost because a secretary's head crashed yesterday"
Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
I am not sure but I believe another story about this was recently posted here. In any case it is very interesting and deserving of coverage.
A collegue of mine here at the University of Tokyo has mention that similar work has been done in his lab. It seems clear to me that the next major breakthrough in computing will be the elimination of the unwieldy and awkward keyboard.
It has been discussed what the next major User Interface metaphor will be; That is, what will replace the familiar desktop? I believe that the Desktop will remain with us until the end of manuel input devices. I do not believe we will ever see an efficient three dimensional user interfact metaphor until we have more efficient ways of interfacing with our machines, be it with our eyes or through or neurons or whatever sort of technology might be on the horizon.
At least, that is my view on the matter. I would welcome hearing from you if you disagree. Thank you.
R. Suzuka
Imagine teaching you brain stuff directly into neurons .. you simply know it. The Matrix all over =) ..
dd if=/tmp/Alan_Cox_kernel_hacking.img of=/dev/brain
Jon - TheSpork
Brings a whole new meaning to the term 'zombie'.
I tell for sure if the chick down the street is dating someone!
Two words: Test CRAMMING.
Be affraid to even so much as LOOK at a McAffee retail box.
Norton Ghost sales to public schools would ski rocket.
Imagine a realy bewolfe cluster of Natalie Portman Cruisers (see above).
A million reasons to fear the local BOFH.
people will run benchmarks against each other.
Quake lan parties will require that you check firearms at the door, lest you forget which world you're in.
Oh dear, I hope it won't run Windows, people would fall into a coma every 2 days ...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I don't think giving it another piece would help this any.... :D
isn't it frightening that the things gibson wrote about that you stuck in these things were called microsofts?
dear god=>
-----
jonathan barket
It really seems to have no real purpose
I know brain to computer interface sounds good, meaning you can think and the computer translates thoughts into action.
However, direct physical interface is not the way.
Perhaps a patch which goes onto your skin is ok, but directly to your brain cells? Why make yuor braincells attach to a CPU?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
wow... soon we'll get advertisments transmitted directly in our brain...
to the infamous "Blue Screen of Death", no?
Actually, this is getting way too uncomfortably close to many cyberpunk sf stories. Gads, actually having an "implant" to better "run" the net? No, thanks. My DSL is fast enough for now.
Is going to work. I mean I think we need to develop a brain to computer interface but directly to braincells? This guarentees no one will use it.
IT has to be something on the skin, or something on the head, not on the brain.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The second we have a brain to computer interface.
The problem will be, How will the government "Control" what people think? IF people have telepathy, forget about national security. IF people can just think something to someone else, or connect to a globle internet of thoughts well then
Theres no way the government can easily say "You cannot think this, its illegal" But i'm sure they will try.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Just think if we has the same level (or more) interface with a computer has they do with each other, imagine how easy it would be to hack boxes.
the slow part of hacking system would be your interface to it, and bottle necks in there (eg keyboard) i never tried my self, but imagine a good original hack requires a lot of prep work, eg writing tools, poking into your tcp/ip and stuff.
and during the actual hack you dont have time to make quick changes, probably need to abort write your tools some more and start again.
where as with this you could hack stuff like, with the full utility of your human ingenuity, instinks , imagination etc
not only that, as well as hacking other machines we could try hack into each other, with the strong of mind or skill winning.
just imagine what future version of script kiddies would do with their parents, if they didn't like being sent to bed w/o supper.
did any one see that 'Outer Limits' episode where every one bar a few with brain disorders. had a live net connection to their brains, and they all got a virus. It was upto the few w/o the link to try save the others from crainial overload.
-Trevelyan
This software may not be used to control aircraft, nuclear power plants, or anybody's mind.
Whelp, I guess now we get to see how many people really meant that C++++ in their geek code.
So, how long will it be until I can pop those spare 128MB SIMMs into my head, and finaly rember where the !@$ I left my keys? But seriously, This could lead to some really cool research, especialy in prostetics. Imagine, with the tech we have now, it would not only look like your other arm, but you yourself wouldnt know the diffrence. You could control it just like your old arm. Quite cool, if you ask me. Then, for fun..you could probly make telapathy devices...As in, I see what you see, and stuff. Or with 802.11b cards in the back of our heads...we could be the borg. The posibilities of this are endless
The opinions in this post are ficticious. Any similarity to actual opinions, real or imagined, is purely coincidental.
Do you know how difficult it would be to have the computer programmed and interfaced in a manner complimentary to it being capable of understanding what the human brain is thinking? Sure, it could *send* stimuli, but I highly doubt it could provide any type of an "interactive" experience. We're not advanced enough for that (yet!) I think this stuff is possible, it just involves a massive amount of intelligence we don't yet have.
;)
Regarding it being moral, I see nothing immoral about it so long as our world doesn't become like an apocolyptic sci-fi novel.
mwtr / THIS SIG HAS BEEN PRAYED OVER AND MAY BE USED AS A POINT OF CONTACT (ACTS 19:12)
An ingestable swarm of nanobots that can take position within our brains, interfaceing directly neuron by neuron before computer generated thoughts become part of our consciousness.
When the time comes, will you "cross over"?
(read Kurzweil Age of Spiritual machines)
--
What is the sound of this sentence?
... comes to mind when you mentioned the hacking other humans. You literally turn other people into 'zombie machines' that will do your bidding.
although I still believe it's a long way off, being able to interact at the protein, and possibly even bio-electric level with opens up some great doors for being able combat a wide variety of cellular problems. Think directly shutting down cancer cells, or changing telomerase lengths to increase lifespan. Maybe even finding a way of increasing the speed of biochemical reactions and electrical signaling in the mind (overclock your brain on the next Geraldo)... but seriously:
IMO there are still some major hurdles to be lept in the development, e.g. Finding a stable power supply for these semiconductors so they can operate for any period of time. Sure, we can just say, let us leech some bioelectricity from surrounding tissue, or maybe convert sugar like muscles, but there's the actuality of doing it, versus the simplicity of saying it.
Plus, if we need widespread modification of a large body of tissue, and we plan on doing it with an injection of a foreign body in the bloodstream or otherwise, you've still got to contend with the body's own immune system, and possible toxic reactions from breakdowns of semiconductors and their binding materials.
So fear not, your brain probably won't suffer from a cataclysmic BSOD or fsck from hell for a few years yet.
So, besides my "what ifs" above, I think this is a good thing.
If computers could be given neurons, then it would be possible to make them feel PAIN!
In related news, the FBI is planning to release project Brain Drain, following in the footsteps of project Midnight Lantern.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
Next thing you know, we'll end up with a world like in Johnny Mnemonic or something... 80 gigs, right in the head. Of course, by the time people have computers in their brains, storage capacities will be much higher than that.
And then you'll get things like people getting a new sort of amnesia where the computer malfunctioned and erased data inside the person's head... or if there's built-in networking, crackers will get directly into people's brains and put memories there that never took place, or they'll record your thoughts for their personal use.
Will you need a firewall inside your brain? How about virus protection software? A computer inside your head, especially one with network connectivity, will give new meaning to the term "virus" as it applies to humans.
Maybe the government wants to install computers in every person's head for thought policing, er, convenience reasons. Then, cool hacks will appear on the net allowing you to shield your thoughts from the government, while making artificial legitimate thoughts appear on the networking interface for the government to see. Then, the government will pass all sorts of anti-terrorism laws against modifying the computer in your brain. And they'll come up with monitoring software capable of determining if you have modified the software in your brain's computer.
Of course, there will be failures of some sort or another, and people will become delusional or they'll simply lose control of themselves because of an illegal instruction fault (while upgrading their firmware, er, brainware) and start flopping around or something. This brings new meaning to debugging.
In short, whatever possibilities a computer inside your brain makes possible, it's nothing when compared to the disadvantages. OH WELL.
But I can also think of one major problem with this: Bugs in the code which translates binary commands into neural impulses.
Death: The ultimate denial of service attack.
Proteus' Child
Doko ni datte; hito wa, tsunagette iru.
now THAT would be bad luck :)
'Nie has his own list of applications for such bioelectronic devices, such as tissue engineering and sound and light censors, which "either enhance the body's function or act as a probe that lets you observe the body's function," he said.'
Sound and light "censors" argh! That's audio and video conquered in one fell swoop. Soon it'll be pay-per-view just to drive to work...
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
"Activation code."
if (!code){ you don't come out of suspend in the morning; }
$6.21 is the number of the beast before sales tax. Meh.
Seems like Mods here are abusing their power again
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Devices of this type already exist, just not on the scale described in this article. For example, it is already possible to get retinal implants. The quality is such that you can only see large letters and general motion, but it exists none the less : http://www.optobionics.com/artificialretina.htm. It is also already possible to implant electrodes into the brain of somone who has been paralysed, and have them control a mouse by thinking of moving their abscent body part.http://sulu.smpp.nwu.edu/
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
Its stupid though, The brain has infinite space, unless you have some sorta disease where you lose your memory you dont need a harddrive.
Theres no computer which even comes close to matching the human brain at all except for perhaps math and logic.
And as far as brain to computer interface goes, hooking directly up to braincells is just not the right way to do it, I dont think its practical.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The article mentioned censors. Perhaps this is just a typo of "sensors" (I hope so), but if they ever manage to hook up a little computer that won't let me hear "bad" words (I still don't see how they are bad...), I will be very angry.
Just slap an Athlon XP in my brain and I can finally do better on math tests than my ACT-math score of 23 indicates!
Calc 3? Ha - all the problems for the whole semester, done in 1 minute! Bring on Differential Equations!
And when I'm done, I can have porn sent to directly to my brain via an 802.11b ISP. Hopefully my brain will be running Konqueror as the browser so I can block all those damn pop-up ads...
Then, after pleasuring myself and getting an "A" in Calc3, I'll load up BrainAIM and send my friends telepathic IM's!
Then on to BrainIRC, where I can h4x0r somebody else's mind and get their passwords even if they're memorized! Or run a DDOS (mind control a bunch of people) on somebody else and turn them into a passed out lump on the ground until their brain gets rebooted...
seeing as the Central Nervous System is miles of neruons...usually a boost is needed to power most circuits.
Where would you put the plug?
Uh...forget I asked.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
...Michael Colicos, the guy over at qflux.net, has been working on something similar in his day job; in fact, his work will be on the cover of the Novebmer 30 issue of Cell (probably the most pristigous biology journal).
Colicos also has a series of "virtual intelligence" programs and screensavers (win32 only, unfortunately) that do some interesting stuff.
Cheers
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
You will be assimilated. Discussion is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg.
... they remember to mount a scratch monkey.
I'm afraid.
So, now what will happen when my electronic half gives me a blue screen? Or what will happen when i need to upgrade my brain? Will I need to call up Microslft and give them a reason?? Man this stuff is really starting to scare me!
Hey, this is my sig, if you don't like it, STOP READING MY POSTS!
if i think of a song I like, mentally convert it using iThoughts (provided it does not wipe my brain from the install scri...) or WMP (Windows Mind Player) does that mean my mind is a circumvention device that can be removed via a court order by the RIAA?
Oddly enough I see a Luddite or a Windows user tapping them selves furiously on the forhead trying to launch a program.
Or if something goes wrong, these same people abuse the equipment (smacking a monitor)...now they will take their aggression on the "real faulty" device...them.
PEBETE, a new tech acronym...Problem Exists Between Ear To Ear.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Gimme a break. /.'s Groupthink is really annoying. I really DO wish the editors payed a ttention to stuff that's been posted before.
trolls were abundand in these parts with a keyboard interface just you wait.
Antonio
Something I'm curious is...how exactly is the hardware started up? You can't exactly reset a brain, how do you hook something electrical to it without harming it while it is working?
There is no spoon.
Feel like saving some storage space and just copying the comments from the old story over to this one? I mean, how many people will really notice that the BSOD in the brain jokes and the Borg jokes are in the wrong order?
Yes they will be able to process specific signals sent by the brain. But there is still a barrier between our understanding of the brain and the subconcious.
I dont think our brains privacy will be impacted.
A more likely scenario would be if a hacker type person would be able to make you start waving your arms and look like you're having a fit at random intervals through your neurons.
... I think you know the rest.
Software Wars
One of the goals of pushing the technological envelope is to remove and overcome bottlenecks to any process. We have seen bottlenecks overcome in the past. One example is punch cards. Having to point and click or type is just another bottleneck that will eventually be alleviated.
The merging of humans and computers has been a process long in the making. Computers operate in binary and humans operate in a complex visual world. The original computers had to be operated bit by bit. Eventually command-line made it to the scene. Then GUI's made an appearance. Then VR was realized. There aren't too many steps left to place interaction directly to the brain level.
I only have one major fear about it. The brain has thus far been a closed system. We don't really know how vulnerable it is. It might sound crazy, but I don't think it entirely impossible that we will find that a brain is easily controlled or exploited once a link is established.
Of course, that is my opinion founded in pure hypothetical so it must be taken completely at a casual value as such.
I just hope they don't port Windows over to it. "Your brain has performed an illegal operation" or better yet "Stop 0x0000007B UNEXPECTED_KERNEL_MODE_TRAP".
Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon 26 Nov 11:26 AM
from the neener-neener dept.
FrickinIdiot writes: Slashdot is reporting on a new Microsoft worm (big surprise). A new unnamed worm has been released and, once again, Microsoft software is the target. More specifically, this new worm targets Microsoft SQL servers with no administrator passwords set. Once the server is infected, it logs onto Internet Relay Chat (IRC) servers and is ready to receive commands and act accordingly. What I thnk is anyone still using Microsoft software desrves what they get.
( Read More... 70 of 269 comments )
Yes, folks, this is an actual Slashdot headline from tomorrow! Note the clues: Lack of respect for users of Microsoft software, direct cut-n-paste from the submitted article without attribution, small typos in the editorial comments and of course a total lack of knowledge about what was posted the day before on the front page.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
It is clear that the trend of computing is not bigger and better, but smaller and better. In the last 50 years computing has gone from mainframes to PCs to PDAs. This type of research is incredibly important- when you can communicate with a computer outside of your body, then you simply need to wait until the promises of nanotechnology and quantum computing are fulfilled reduce the computer to the point that we can bring it inside our bodies. Coupled with wireless technology and a more robust, more encompassing internet, one that is the main conduit for all media.... Wow. Voice/Text/Video communication, ANYWHERE. Access to news, literature, music, all information, ANYWHERE. The future of computing is seamless and transparent on a scale that we can't imagine yet. This research is a step in this direction.
The issues with this type of computing and communication power are greater than we have ever dealt with before. An adage in computer science is that hardware and software are basically the same thing, software is a slower and more flexible emulation of what hardware can accomplish. As our hardware becomes wetware, and more and more powerful, software will begin to be all of computing. So, I feel that it is critical that this software be open source, that everyone owns it. For all the same reasons that I use open source software on my computer now, I will want to use open source software to run the computer of the future, the one that interacts on a neural level. If we have all the code, we can control to a great extent the ads, the hacking, external control, etc etc. Thoughts?
To this end, I am an undergrad studying computer science and biochemistry. I don't know if this type of technology will be available in my lifetime, but then again, we went from not have airplanes to landing on the moon in 66 years. All computing technology has happened in less than the span of a lifetime. I'm optimistic that with enough conscious people involved in this technology, that we can overcome the many pitfalls and downsides, and harness these ideas in positive and innovative ways!
Also- does anyone know of any other universities that are doing research of this type? I am really interesting in this and nanotechnology. I've been looking around, but I was wondering if anyone was involved or knew of any institutions doing research of this kind. Thanks!
Gives Blue Screen of Death a whole new meaning.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Better think twice before you buy that 'l33t w3tw4r3'. Just because you can use your arms and legs with the greatest of ease doesn't mean you can use a cybernetic one that well. After all, most of us were born with them, so don't expect that level of control instantly. Also, any other wetware would be the same. Imagine trying to run with a cyber leg, when the cyber leg moves a hell of a lot faster than the normal one..
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Just so you know, your sig is full of errors. Japanese doesn't have semicolons, you can't put a comma after a phrase particle like wa, and tsunegeru isn't a word; I think you mean tsunagatte iru. So that should be: Doko ni datte, hito wa tsunagatte iru.
... a beowulf cluster of these?
;-)
It had to be said
-
Patrick Cable II
Circuit City will have to rename itself to Wet Circuit City.
Maybe Sony can pursue a new line of portable stereos: "Integrates with your cat or dog with a simple Neurostick tranceiver. Now you can force your cat dance to your favorite music!"
How do we use this to proliferate the Pr0n?
I would love to go into this sort of thing and was wondering if people knew of any graduate programs in this field working with the interaction of cells and electronics. Any advice or the such on the field would be much appreciated.
Thanks
We could just dunk ourselves in LCL and pilot giant robo-beasts
you'll never need to look for a parking space again *Smash*
Human engrams onto silicon, or was it the other way? Never mind, that technician simply got in the way of M5 when it needed to draw power from the warp core. We always have an open air conduit when transferring antimatter and all that stuff..............
...that is, until someone cracks into you and stops your heart. Then it sucks tremendously.
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
What you're saying is true, as far as it goes. There have been many examples of people claiming that something is impossible, only to have it eventually achieved. But there have also been many examples of people claiming that something is possible, only to have it eventually understood not to be. For example, Newtonian mechanics was a revolutionary change to our understanding of the world; conceptually, it led to a 'clockwork universe' where, if you could only know the position and velocity of all particles, you would be able to project backwards and forwards and know everything about the past and future; in other words, all information about all past and future states of the universe is contained within the current state. It was therefore reasonable to suppose, and many educated people *did* suppose, that within some reasonable amount of time, we would be able to view or even travel to the past or the future - H. G. Wells' time machine is firmly rooted in this tradition.
Then came the 20th century; Einstein, Heisenburg, etc. In our new understanding of the world, there is no such thing as 'the state of the universe' and certainly no expectation that you can look forwards or backwards into the future or the past, or even look at the present with any great degree of certainty. As a result, nobody seriously suggests that time travel is possible any more.
It is a logical fallacy to argue that because many similar propositions have been shown to be false, that *this* proposition will turn out to be false. The feasibility or lack of same involved in heavier-than-air flight, human cloning, and neural-computer interfaces are totally independent of each other.
As usual, the interesting technological possibilities that we "can't quite do" turn out to be wrapped around deep philosophical questions. In this case, prior to establishing a neural-computer interface that truly 'reads our thoughts' you would have to identify exactly where thoughts come from, how they occur, and so forth - incidentally proving or disproving the existence of the soul in the process, most likely. Do you really think this will happen?
-Graham
Humans rely on memory a lot, day to day, but also things like being a witness in court. As so many things become easy to forge (photos, recorded voices etc), are we in danger of losing our legal system?
If all physical evidence can be faked, and all mental evidence can be faked, are we left with anything?
The bionic ear has been around for many, many years now.
It was pioneered by an aussie company, Cochlear. It works by using an electrode to directly stimulate the receptors inside the cochlear.
A small implant is inserted under the skin behind the ear, the electrode run into the cochlea via a small hole drilled in the skull. There are no wires that leave the body; the device recieves data and power via an unobtrusive induction coil which is simply clipped on to hair near the implant.
New developments in the area include a plan to stimulate auditory receptors on the brainstem directly, and also development of better sound processing algorithms.
Moo.
Homosexual will always try to hack into us. Damn BackOriffice.
Kinda makes you wonder the effects this'll have when people accidently hit Whitehouse.com...
"cleanup, Isle 3. We have a -brainbrowser-."
-Eric Dizkord
"I always thought Dark Futures had to be in the future
any attempts to bypass,modify,copy, or reverse engineer wetware are violations of WIPO and DMCA
The idea behind connecting electronics is mainly an idea of adding/repairing sensory information or giving meaning to the brains output (in terms of say artificial muscle movement).
;)
;)
Connecting electronics into the brain could have more far reaching possibilities, like - maybe in the future either inhibit certain reactions or actually taking part in the brains' decision making process (or other internal processes of the brain).
I can already see M$ thinking of a first application for this: "You can't handle money? Fine, we have a brain module for you, that makes sure you don't spend more than you earn"... Of course they won't tell you, that in the future (except for anything to maintain your basic life), all of your money will be spent on more M$ products...
On the other hand - M$ writing modules for the brain, wouldn't that give the term "blue eyes" a whole new meaning? Or where else would they project yours truly's blue screen...
Imagine being able to give your computer a piece of your mind Imagine having to give the computer a piece of your mind. A computer with windows vxg2020 ... controlled from Redmond.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
Man, if we just convinced Jet Li to put some of those in his head, and if we convinced ourselves to put some in our own heads, then...
EVERYBODY WAS KUNG FU FIGHTING,
those kicks were fast as lightning.
Scheisse, dass wurde spass machen.
I just finished Diamond Age about 5 minutes ago. Go read it. NOW.
The reason I say this is because in this masterpiece work by Neal Stephenson, one of the focuses of the book is on a society of 'Drummers', a group of people connected with wetware. They have nanosites circulating in their bloodstream, and they use the hosts' brain in... well... I would tell you, but it's kinda a major plot element. Go read this book.
P.S.: I would pay large amounts of money to be able to do what mgkimsal2 says. (without the ads, of course.
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Security issues aside, having a networked brain and the capacity to access an unlimited wealth of information is surely my wettest dream. However, getting from the point of attaching neurons to computer circuits to the point of downloading knowledge a la the Matrix ("Now I know how to fly a huey, yahoo!") is a much harder problem.
The human brain 1) develops over many many years and throughout that time develops patterns unique to the individual's experiences; and 2) it develops in relation to a body via which it interacts with the world. This is why so much CogSci research focuses on the issue of "embodiment". The paradigm of brain as discursive controller is fading away in favor an emphasis on the role of the physical (both body and environment) in what we typically regard as cognition. (See Being There by Andy Clark for an amazing read).
Given this, knowledge, especially knowledge that manifests in physical behavior, must either be "installed" in a manner highly sensitive to the idiosyncracies of the person, or through a long period in which the body and brain are trained to work together on a problem. Therefore, I don't think it's all that plausible to instantaneously know how to fly a huey, to drive a car, to type, etc.. As someone else observed, we'll see this technology used in prosthetics far sooner than we'll have Matrix/Johny Mnemonic style scenarios.
Imagine being able to give your mind a piece of of your computer.
Read "The Peace War" - Vernor Vinge
-- That which does not kill us has made its last mistake.
Reminds of Peter F. Hamilton's "Nights Dawn" trilogy and his concept of "neural nanonics"...
linking humans to semiconductors would be animal cruelty why aren't the animal activists protesting this.
It is fascinating how biotechnology (e.g., cloning, stem cells, etc) is racing toward replacing body parts while strictly mechanical solutions are racing toward the same goal (e.g., self contained heart, silicon/neural interfaces). Unlike clockwork hearts vs biological replacements where the biological replacement is without doubt the ultimate fix, silicon enhancements of the brain offer possibilities that natural neuron solutions cannot achieve such as 100% precision for mathematical calculations at high speed.
Gives silicon augmentation a new meaning. People will start looking for small scars under the ears and hairline for proof that someone's intelligence is not "natural."
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Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
Well.. Its either Hannibal Lector, OR Johnny has overclocked his CPU again...
Man, who among us that's read Gibson and Stephens doesn't want this? I want the direct link to the net. And no, I'm not worried about someone cracking into the link. Do you have any idea how powerfull a firewall/ids the human brain is? Besides, I'd put OpenBSD or Linux in front of it anyway. :-)
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If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
Okay, all of the cool sci fi babble aside, there are a couple of reasons that it might be very difficult to make this - head computers - work.
Firstly, you need space to put the head computer. Dishing out even a thimble full of gray matter has consequences we understand but-poorly; while it's been done in some people who seem okay, there are forms of cognitive damage that are subtle enough (on the verge of what we can objectively detect) that I wouldn't rule out (possibly very subjective) damage from making space for the thing. Hollowing out a section of the skull has it's own associated problems.
There's a big problem with inflammation. A significant number of people are going to be very allergic to whatever material you make your components out of! Low level brain inflammation is very, very bad, in the long run. If there's a "datajack" (an external wire-port for headware from Shadowrun) bacteria are going to try and crawl up it (my now deceased hydrocephallic elder brother needed a procedure called a Shunt, a tube, to drain his brain of fluid. It caused a number of very nasty CNS infections, and it was very very carefully monitered.) These bacteria, even if they never cause full blown CNS gangrene, which is going to happen in some small percentage of.. er.. patients (cyborgs?) are going to further aggravate your inflammation problem, which is a chronic disorder associated with significant reductions in life expectancy and, shudder, organ failure. If there's a 0.01% chance that this toy is going to turn you into a vegetable in 20 years, how many people do you think will go for it?
The surgical procedure to install the things cannot, for example, kill the nerve cell you're trying to plant electrodes on 0.01% of the time, either.
Given all of this, would you want to be the first person this toy was tested on? Given that there's no medical need for the process generally (I can see efforts made to use this to "repair" the mentally retarded) how would you justify the experimental form of the procedure to the AMA?
Finally, in order for these toys to be better than typing-with-electrodes-in-your-muscles, which is a cute trick but not worth the risks I've outlined above, they have to be able to interface with and understand your thoughts, memories, senses or emotions etc., at least on some rudimentary level. In order to do that, we need not-just-one but several major advances in neurobiology. Okay, we now know how to moniter input from and give input to a biological nerve cell - this was always the little technological hurdle in making this sort of toy - the highjump is in which of your billions of nerve cells we attach it to, and why. Since it isn't even going to be the same in every person, not precisely, this is a doubly tall order.
I wouldn't hold your breath.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Consider recent articles here where software programming was an art. There were other older articles mentioning the poor quality of software. Do we really want people to become a vegetable that continuously mutters something about segmentation faults and core dumps?
This means, when the bells in my head go off, the phone call is *really* for me, not one of my stinky kids.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
I don't like your all-too-sure-of-yourself attitude. Who knows? Maybe someone will disprove Einstein. After all, it's never safe in science to worship anything. All I'm saying is, it's safer to say something's possible than that it's impossible. If you spend your life working on something that's impossible, you will be outcast, or, worse, killed like those heretics who thought the world might be round of all things. On the other hand, if you spend your life working on something that's possible and just never achieve it, you can still be considered respectable if also a bit wacky. I say, in the interest of all remotely possible progress, that we assume everything to be possible, eventually. Thought reading through advanced neuronal interfaces or otherwise, or even time travel, can only be said to be extremely improbable until we find a way of becoming omniscient. And then who needs microcircuitry?
One technique that could be used is an artificial neural net that is trained to be a transducer between wetspace and chipspace. This NN would sit between the microchip and the neural interface, translating signals to and from the two domains.
The only thing that would be left to do is to train your own brain (learn, basically) to interface with the chip. This might be difficult, or it might be easy. Biofeedback is actually a very good technique and it could be used in this arena as well.
I wonder what the first true brain/chip interface would do. I have a lot of trouble putting names to faces I've only met a few times. It would be nice to look at a face, and suddenly be aware of the name because my little computer looked it up for me.
I can think of plenty other applications. You could do evil-complex math in your head, or visualize anything you want with total realism (ok, maybe some people might abuse that ;) What else?
Just so long as it doesn't run a Microsoft OS. A Blue Screen of Death is something I would SURELY want to avoid!!!
--Experience is what you get when you are expecting something else--
"Straddling the sword of technology..."
This is too much. Even though I invented the Internet, I'm leaning more and more towards getting that log cabin in the Ozarks with two mules and no electricity. All you cyborgs stay off'n my property!
Connecting to the brain has two applications:
1. Input
2. Output
Unless we figure out how to format information for usable presentation to the brain, or understand brain output with more bandwidth than morse code, "jacking in" won't be worth much.
The Neurophone bypasses the afferent mechanics of the middle ear, but really seems to have just stimulated the afferent mechanics of the cochlea, so it's not so much a "neuro" phone as a possible eardrum replacement. I'd put up a link, but they're mostly naff, either trying to profit from the quackery aspects of the device, or failing to understand the device when ragging on it.
Experiments with occipital lobe array implants are much more promising.
Efferent studies so far involve biofeedback and using biofeedback to move a mouse. Here at are some links. But like I said, this technology is about as exciting as an omelette bar at a rodeo.
--Blair
Idiots, the term is jellyware. It was in use before most of you kiddies were born