Well, you don't have to worry about unique node addresses, aka MAC addresses.
A) With a little bit of work you can fake them anyway, or even better, you don't have to have a NIC installed in your development box.
B) How would anyone know what MAC address my NIC has in the first place? It's not like individuals register those things.
C) And, no, it isn't something that your going to be able to strip out from network traffic, unless of course, the person doing the stripping is on your subnet, which is highly unlikely.
The most harm I could see a MAC address or a UUID doing a person is acting as further evidence after you're already a suspect.
You can get 56k access from pretty much anywhere in the state of Iowa and most towns with 50K or greater populations offer both DSL and @Home, of course, in Iowa, that's not very many places.
Personally, I had cable access almost 2 years ago, and am now using DSL, and I live in a town of about 50K in Iowa.
Um, my grandparents have Internet access in western Iowa, which is pretty much a wasteland. They use what's called a 56k modem, and access is available in about every town in the state I'd guess-timate.
And last time I checked, it is technically possible to download pr0n with a 56k too.
I don't really ever see us stopping that 10km wide thingy coming at us at 100,000km/h, at least not with the technology today, perhaps when we develop technology to bend space-time on a planetary scale the odds will be better..
Personally, I'd rather see us become more aggressive in our attempts to colonize other worlds as means to insure our survival as a species.
Right now I work in your typical cubicle environment, I'll guess-timate mine is 5x8. A little cramped with 3 systems and a small library. The main printer for my floor used to be on one side of my cubicle wall ( sales shares my floor ) which constantly had traffic. Our department's paper shredder is right outside of my cube, and there are very few things more annoying than that. We are not a software house though, we are almost entirely hardware, so there are not many programmers that the company has to consider. We programmers wear headphones to drown out the noise, which then makes people assume that we are anti-social or something. No, we'd just like to be able to concentrate thank-you, that and I happen to enjoy listening to music as opposed to paper shredders, doors, and pages.
Anyway, my perfect office, i.e. with a ceiling and a door, would be a modest area, 10x10, 12x12, or something like that.. Windows, but the ability to completely shutter out all light. My desk would be in the center of the room. I'd have a nice stereo and speakers in all corners. Most of the time, the room would be pitch black, other than the light from my monitor, and something by Rush would probably be coming out of the speakers, at a rather high volume. Oh, and I mustn't forget the dorm fridge.
Btw, does anyone still use VMS in new applications anymore? and what other architectures does it run on? Dabbled with it in college, because we received both a unix and a VMS shell account, but unix and I hit it off, and I never really used VMS. ----------------------
Message: One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How
enthusiastic is our support for UNIX?
Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many
years ago. Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines.
Ten percent of our VAXs are going for UNIX use. UNIX is a simple
language, easy to understand, easy to get started with. It's great for
students, great for somewhat casual users, and it's great for
interchanging programs between different machines. And so, because of
its popularity in these markets, we support it. We have good UNIX on
VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s.
It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will
run out of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a real system and
will end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming.
With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and
quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not there. With
VMS, no matter what you look for - it's literally a five-foot shelf of
documentation - if you look long enough it's there. That's the
difference - the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS
is that it's all there.
It hurts to see this, once upon a time Microsoft would have modified the Apache source to look like Microsoft-IIS/5.0. In other words, innovate. Now look what they have been reduced to, inadvertantly admitting that their product is inferior to an open source alternative.
Yeah, good question. Solid state disk drives have done this for quite some time. By solid state I mean flash, like compact flash or the various ATA-flash packages out there. The reason was because with flash memory, as most of you know, the life of a given sector is much shorter than that of a typical hard drive, it can only reliably handle so many writes, before the media wears out. With the current flash products, the number of writes is above one million, but it used to be much lower. So when a sector goes "bad" the embedded logic maps it to a reserved sector, so you can continue on as if nothing has changed. I'm not sure if the embedded logic will let you revisit a damaged sector. I'm guessing that it will not let you. That, of course, would be a big problem for most of the scenarios people have been discussing. I also have not seen where you can query the device for the number of sectors that it has had to re-map, so you may never really know. Of course, I personally have not dealt much with this "intelligent" flash memory, so I might be mistaken.
Do typical hard disks do this? I don't know, but I'm going to check that out. Now that I think about it, it has been a very long time since I have had a bad block on a hard drive.
I agree, but people will try to make a distinction.
Routing IP and routing gnutella, for example, are different. The only reason that "normal" routers aren't held accountable, is because there is no good way to do it without breaking the internet, which is why ISPs are not held liable for such things either. Being a gnutella "router", is not neccessary for anything but gnutella, squashing it only hurts gnutella, and that is their goal. Same fate for fling, and the rest of these implemenations.
Right. This has probably been said before in another discussion, but there will be a law enacted if this ( or gnutella, freenet, etc ) ever becomes mainstream. It will be a simple extension of being an accessory to a crime. You can run this software, but if you aid in the transmission of illegal data, you will be held accountable. So, the arguement, "I'm merely an unwitting conduit", will not hold water for long. If you use these apps/protocols, you will run the risk of violating the law.
This is not how I would like to see things happen, but I think it is inevitable.
The way people would most commonly be caught, especially in the case of fling because of the encryption, would be to simply request something illegal, retrieve it, and then bust the admin of the machine that sent you the packets.
But, on the bright side, maybe if one of these ideas can be implemented and achieve a critical mass like Napster, it will make enforcement like this practically impossible.
Yeah, maybe that's where this psycho-profile is coming from. They determine what software your box is running and then assess your personality and buying habits from that.
For instance...
Running Windows 95/98/NT - Will buy anything, start spamming immeadiately. Running BeOS - Will buy anything, so long as it is obscure or different. Try to sell them some gas-powered boots. Running Linux - Likes bandwagons. Try to off-load britney spears and pokemon. Running Commercial Unix - Resists bandwagons. Try to sell them some more 5,000 dollar operating systems. Running Windows 3.11 - Too stupid and/or poor. Don't bother.
Part of my company was "hacked" a while back by a script kiddie. Behind our router I pretty much just use telnet and ftp because it simple, and everyone else is behind a firewall and cannot see the traffic in between the router and firewall. Also, the machines are just test boxes with no vulnerable data in any case.
Well, some people in techsupport set up a linux box outside of the firewall to run seti@home, and left it completely wide open. A script kiddie got to that and fired up a packet sniffer. Then of course, strange things started happening on my test boxes as the script kiddie hacked into mine seeing my plaintext passwords, quite simple.
Why do I say this person has no skill? First, my box was running a firewall, so his IRC server was hitting the wall along with everything else he was trying to do, apparently he did not know how to disable ipchains, and I could see through netstat that he had these apps running. He replaced some apps like "ps", but left many others, like netstat. The old apps along with his packet sniffer and IRC server where moved to/bin/.bin which is pretty easy to find, using, well, "find" looking files modified within a certain time period. He also left a log of him ftping the files from the seti@home box, which is how we tracked that one down in the first place.
Here's the beautiful part. When we found that the seti@home box was the root of all evil, we looked in the/bin/.bin/sniffer directory, or whatever it was called and viewed his sniffer log. Well, guess what it showed besides our plaintext passwords and usernames? His username and password to his ISP as he logged into his own account to get more tools while the sniffer was running. Needless to say we caught up with him.
What these people are thinking is beyond me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but if would ever do something like this, I'd make sure I knew my sh*t and even then odds are you will still leave some sort of trail. So, people must be right, they really must not see any consequence in committing these acts. And then they brag about it like it took skill to type./hack 192.168.1.1. I mean as soon as you set up an IRC server to brag about your instruction following skills, you've lost all respect as a "hacker" as far as I'm concerned.
You are correct, we are technically a republic and not a democracy. Good, I learned something today.
Second, our government is doing fine. ... everyone knows the government is corrupt... We know we are not free!
Yes, I see the contradiction. I should have said, on paper our government is doing fine. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
I still stand by my statement that we are more free today, than we were initially under the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I never said we were completely free. Have we had freedoms taken away from us since then? Yes, but I still feel that many more have been given in return. Does that make it any better? No, and I never said it did.
I do not think any reasonable person would disagree with your definition of liberty and the fact that our government does restrict it. But, by and large, the majority of this country is/was not necessarily resonable, and the majority is what got us into this situation, for better and for worse. But that's the way this government was intended to work, more or less.
So, it's been suggested that I get off my complacent duff and make a difference. Correct, I suppose I should, I suppose everyone should. But that does not happen because most people simply do not have the time or knowledge to do so. Does that make me selfish? Lazy? I guess it would have to, right? Damn logic. Fine, now I have to force myself to become more politically active, because I cannot think of a respectable excuse not to. I knew I should not have read this thread.
BTW, I am serious about becoming more politically active and it's because of this thread. I'm going to read McWilliams' book also. I know, I know, good for me...
I agree with the premise of the book, but disagree with most of your post.
First, this is a democracy. The problem is the corruption of democracy by big money. If you think this is an American problem, you are dead wrong. If I read the article correctly a farmer in France is rebelling against a multinational, in this case, an American multinational. It sounds like the French are falling asleep on the job too. ( along with the English, German, Russian, Japanese, etc ) Where was this farmer and the rest of the French when this deal was inked?
Second, our government is doing fine. People say we are moving away from the Bill of Rights as if right after it was signed we were all freely getting high, having sex in every flavor, reading whatever we wanted, and worshiping the god(s) or object of our choice without persecution. Never have the people in this country been more free, if anything we are working toward the vision that our founding fathers laid out, not the opposite.
So what is the problem? Corruption. No one in America believes they have a voice anymore, everyone knows the government is corrupt, everyone knows big business is screwing us. We know we are not free! The people in this country, and the rest of the world that hasn't already joined them ( but soon will ), are so buried in corruption, or atleast the idea of it, that it seems utterly futile to even fight it. That, and anymore it is not in anyone's best interest to fight it because you probably work for one of these corporations now. And besides, people are happy right? They've got their new home in the new tree-less development, a home which looks just like their neighbors, with the token SUV in the driveway, and on and on.. In a nutshell, corporations are evil, and we've grown far too dependant on their services. I wish I had the answers, but I'm just a corporate whore like most of you. I have my automobile, my DSL, my air-conditioning, my groceries from the supermarket, and my Diablo II, and I'm kept just content enough to sit back and take it with a smile.
Empty boxes on the shelves for browsing, when you are ready to buy, walk up to the counter, tell them what you want, and they grab an OEM-like distribution of the software from under the counter or the back room.
This probably would not work well for businesses like Best Buy or Circuit City that have multiple sales counters, but might work well for stores like Software Etc., Babbages, or other game-centric retailers that usually only have one counter.
I doubt this would slow checkout down too much, as console games, in many stores, have to be fetched from a locked glass case anyway, of course, you do get the box in that situation, only it can be a hassle to get a look at it before you buy.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, you don't have to worry about unique node addresses, aka MAC addresses.
A) With a little bit of work you can fake them anyway, or even better, you don't have to have a NIC installed in your development box.
B) How would anyone know what MAC address my NIC has in the first place? It's not like individuals register those things.
C) And, no, it isn't something that your going to be able to strip out from network traffic, unless of course, the person doing the stripping is on your subnet, which is highly unlikely.
The most harm I could see a MAC address or a UUID doing a person is acting as further evidence after you're already a suspect.
Well, that's changed now..
You can get 56k access from pretty much anywhere in the state of Iowa and most towns with 50K or greater populations offer both DSL and @Home, of course, in Iowa, that's not very many places.
Personally, I had cable access almost 2 years ago, and am now using DSL, and I live in a town of about 50K in Iowa.
Um, my grandparents have Internet access in western Iowa, which is pretty much a wasteland. They use what's called a 56k modem, and access is available in about every town in the state I'd guess-timate.
And last time I checked, it is technically possible to download pr0n with a 56k too.
I don't really ever see us stopping that 10km wide thingy coming at us at 100,000km/h, at least not with the technology today, perhaps when we develop technology to bend space-time on a planetary scale the odds will be better..
Personally, I'd rather see us become more aggressive in our attempts to colonize other worlds as means to insure our survival as a species.
Right now I work in your typical cubicle environment, I'll guess-timate mine is 5x8. A little cramped with 3 systems and a small library. The main printer for my floor used to be on one side of my cubicle wall ( sales shares my floor ) which constantly had traffic. Our department's paper shredder is right outside of my cube, and there are very few things more annoying than that. We are not a software house though, we are almost entirely hardware, so there are not many programmers that the company has to consider. We programmers wear headphones to drown out the noise, which then makes people assume that we are anti-social or something. No, we'd just like to be able to concentrate thank-you, that and I happen to enjoy listening to music as opposed to paper shredders, doors, and pages.
Anyway, my perfect office, i.e. with a ceiling and a door, would be a modest area, 10x10, 12x12, or something like that.. Windows, but the ability to completely shutter out all light. My desk would be in the center of the room. I'd have a nice stereo and speakers in all corners. Most of the time, the room would be pitch black, other than the light from my monitor, and something by Rush would probably be coming out of the speakers, at a rather high volume. Oh, and I mustn't forget the dorm fridge.
Yes, that would be perfect..
Btw, does anyone still use VMS in new applications anymore? and what other architectures does it run on? Dabbled with it in college, because we received both a unix and a VMS shell account, but unix and I hit it off, and I never really used VMS.
----------------------
Message: One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How enthusiastic is our support for UNIX?
Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many years ago. Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines. Ten percent of our VAXs are going for UNIX use. UNIX is a simple language, easy to understand, easy to get started with. It's great for students, great for somewhat casual users, and it's great for interchanging programs between different machines. And so, because of its popularity in these markets, we support it. We have good UNIX on VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s.
It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a real system and will end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming.
With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not there. With VMS, no matter what you look for - it's literally a five-foot shelf of documentation - if you look long enough it's there. That's the difference - the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS is that it's all there.
- Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 1984
It hurts to see this, once upon a time Microsoft would have modified the Apache source to look like Microsoft-IIS/5.0. In other words, innovate. Now look what they have been reduced to, inadvertantly admitting that their product is inferior to an open source alternative.
The shame.
I've typed this in a few times accidentally.
...Still trying.
www.slashdog.org
Just a place holder there.
I'm trying to picture what kind of content I would find on a site called "slash dog" anyway.
Yeah, good question. Solid state disk drives have done this for quite some time. By solid state I mean flash, like compact flash or the various ATA-flash packages out there. The reason was because with flash memory, as most of you know, the life of a given sector is much shorter than that of a typical hard drive, it can only reliably handle so many writes, before the media wears out. With the current flash products, the number of writes is above one million, but it used to be much lower. So when a sector goes "bad" the embedded logic maps it to a reserved sector, so you can continue on as if nothing has changed. I'm not sure if the embedded logic will let you revisit a damaged sector. I'm guessing that it will not let you. That, of course, would be a big problem for most of the scenarios people have been discussing. I also have not seen where you can query the device for the number of sectors that it has had to re-map, so you may never really know. Of course, I personally have not dealt much with this "intelligent" flash memory, so I might be mistaken.
Do typical hard disks do this? I don't know, but I'm going to check that out. Now that I think about it, it has been a very long time since I have had a bad block on a hard drive.
I agree, but people will try to make a distinction.
Routing IP and routing gnutella, for example, are different. The only reason that "normal" routers aren't held accountable, is because there is no good way to do it without breaking the internet, which is why ISPs are not held liable for such things either. Being a gnutella "router", is not neccessary for anything but gnutella, squashing it only hurts gnutella, and that is their goal. Same fate for fling, and the rest of these implemenations.
Right. This has probably been said before in another discussion, but there will be a law enacted if this ( or gnutella, freenet, etc ) ever becomes mainstream. It will be a simple extension of being an accessory to a crime. You can run this software, but if you aid in the transmission of illegal data, you will be held accountable. So, the arguement, "I'm merely an unwitting conduit", will not hold water for long. If you use these apps/protocols, you will run the risk of violating the law.
This is not how I would like to see things happen, but I think it is inevitable.
The way people would most commonly be caught, especially in the case of fling because of the encryption, would be to simply request something illegal, retrieve it, and then bust the admin of the machine that sent you the packets.
But, on the bright side, maybe if one of these ideas can be implemented and achieve a critical mass like Napster, it will make enforcement like this practically impossible.
Yeah, maybe that's where this psycho-profile is coming from. They determine what software your box is running and then assess your personality and buying habits from that.
For instance...
Running Windows 95/98/NT - Will buy anything, start spamming immeadiately.
Running BeOS - Will buy anything, so long as it is obscure or different. Try to sell them some gas-powered boots.
Running Linux - Likes bandwagons. Try to off-load britney spears and pokemon.
Running Commercial Unix - Resists bandwagons. Try to sell them some more 5,000 dollar operating systems.
Running Windows 3.11 - Too stupid and/or poor. Don't bother.
Disclaimer: Please don't take these personally.
Part of my company was "hacked" a while back by a script kiddie. Behind our router I pretty much just use telnet and ftp because it simple, and everyone else is behind a firewall and cannot see the traffic in between the router and firewall. Also, the machines are just test boxes with no vulnerable data in any case.
/bin/.bin which is pretty easy to find, using, well, "find" looking files modified within a certain time period. He also left a log of him ftping the files from the seti@home box, which is how we tracked that one down in the first place.
/bin/.bin/sniffer directory, or whatever it was called and viewed his sniffer log. Well, guess what it showed besides our plaintext passwords and usernames? His username and password to his ISP as he logged into his own account to get more tools while the sniffer was running. Needless to say we caught up with him.
./hack 192.168.1.1. I mean as soon as you set up an IRC server to brag about your instruction following skills, you've lost all respect as a "hacker" as far as I'm concerned.
Well, some people in techsupport set up a linux box outside of the firewall to run seti@home, and left it completely wide open. A script kiddie got to that and fired up a packet sniffer. Then of course, strange things started happening on my test boxes as the script kiddie hacked into mine seeing my plaintext passwords, quite simple.
Why do I say this person has no skill? First, my box was running a firewall, so his IRC server was hitting the wall along with everything else he was trying to do, apparently he did not know how to disable ipchains, and I could see through netstat that he had these apps running. He replaced some apps like "ps", but left many others, like netstat. The old apps along with his packet sniffer and IRC server where moved to
Here's the beautiful part. When we found that the seti@home box was the root of all evil, we looked in the
What these people are thinking is beyond me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but if would ever do something like this, I'd make sure I knew my sh*t and even then odds are you will still leave some sort of trail. So, people must be right, they really must not see any consequence in committing these acts. And then they brag about it like it took skill to type
I'll assume you are being sarcastic.
But if you actually think that your "deed" means squat to any government or corporation, you are mistaken.
However, for $0.01 dollar an acre, there's not really anything to lose. Though, I suppose thoughts like that work out nicely for this guy's wallet.
You are correct, we are technically a republic and not a democracy. Good, I learned something today.
... ... We know we are not free!
Second, our government is doing fine.
everyone knows the government is corrupt
Yes, I see the contradiction. I should have said, on paper our government is doing fine. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
I still stand by my statement that we are more free today, than we were initially under the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I never said we were completely free. Have we had freedoms taken away from us since then? Yes, but I still feel that many more have been given in return. Does that make it any better? No, and I never said it did.
I do not think any reasonable person would disagree with your definition of liberty and the fact that our government does restrict it. But, by and large, the majority of this country is/was not necessarily resonable, and the majority is what got us into this situation, for better and for worse. But that's the way this government was intended to work, more or less.
So, it's been suggested that I get off my complacent duff and make a difference. Correct, I suppose I should, I suppose everyone should. But that does not happen because most people simply do not have the time or knowledge to do so. Does that make me selfish? Lazy? I guess it would have to, right? Damn logic. Fine, now I have to force myself to become more politically active, because I cannot think of a respectable excuse not to. I knew I should not have read this thread.
BTW, I am serious about becoming more politically active and it's because of this thread. I'm going to read McWilliams' book also. I know, I know, good for me...
I agree with the premise of the book, but disagree with most of your post.
First, this is a democracy. The problem is the corruption of democracy by big money. If you think this is an American problem, you are dead wrong. If I read the article correctly a farmer in France is rebelling against a multinational, in this case, an American multinational. It sounds like the French are falling asleep on the job too. ( along with the English, German, Russian, Japanese, etc ) Where was this farmer and the rest of the French when this deal was inked?
Second, our government is doing fine. People say we are moving away from the Bill of Rights as if right after it was signed we were all freely getting high, having sex in every flavor, reading whatever we wanted, and worshiping the god(s) or object of our choice without persecution. Never have the people in this country been more free, if anything we are working toward the vision that our founding fathers laid out, not the opposite.
So what is the problem? Corruption. No one in America believes they have a voice anymore, everyone knows the government is corrupt, everyone knows big business is screwing us. We know we are not free! The people in this country, and the rest of the world that hasn't already joined them ( but soon will ), are so buried in corruption, or atleast the idea of it, that it seems utterly futile to even fight it. That, and anymore it is not in anyone's best interest to fight it because you probably work for one of these corporations now. And besides, people are happy right? They've got their new home in the new tree-less development, a home which looks just like their neighbors, with the token SUV in the driveway, and on and on.. In a nutshell, corporations are evil, and we've grown far too dependant on their services. I wish I had the answers, but I'm just a corporate whore like most of you. I have my automobile, my DSL, my air-conditioning, my groceries from the supermarket, and my Diablo II, and I'm kept just content enough to sit back and take it with a smile.
Empty boxes on the shelves for browsing, when you are ready to buy, walk up to the counter, tell them what you want, and they grab an OEM-like distribution of the software from under the counter or the back room.
This probably would not work well for businesses like Best Buy or Circuit City that have multiple sales counters, but might work well for stores like Software Etc., Babbages, or other game-centric retailers that usually only have one counter.
I doubt this would slow checkout down too much, as console games, in many stores, have to be fetched from a locked glass case anyway, of course, you do get the box in that situation, only it can be a hassle to get a look at it before you buy.