SDL provides support for mouse and joystick. It also supports MIDI, MOD, MP3, WAV and I think Ogg Vorbis sound formats. It also supports BMP, GIF, PNG, TIF, JPG and other graphics formats. Ditto for timers. Ditto for being cross-platform.:)
As for 3D math, packed data, and other things, not everything is necessary for every game. In fact, SDL is not a game library... it's a multimedia library.
Because of this, SDL keeps everything "clean and simple." Internally it supports BMP and has some raw sound effects. If you want to roll your own or build an add-on library, you can. You're not weighed down by, say, MIDI support for a soundless application.;)
So, when I say SDL "supports GIF, PNG, MOD, MP3, MPEG, JPEG, etc.", what I actually mean is there are libraries which support these which are meant to be add-ons to SDL.
That's why most of my games require things like SDL_mixer and SDL_image.
After toying around with Xlib for a few years, SDL emerged. I initially started using it because of it's sound support (it could play MOD music files!), and eventually, as I started writing more projects, I used it for everything.
It's low-level enough for non-OPP-ing folks like myself... that's the most important part for me.
I'm sure this thing can do more than just play games. Maybe it could be advertised as a cheap pc if it has the right software.
It already is. The IES is planned to have a web browser (based on the Gecko rendering engine) and an e-mail client (which will work with any service).
Last I heard, the system was to have an Ethernet port built into it, and a 56.6k modem as an add-on. (Don't have DSL or Cablemodem? How about an Indrema LAN party, anyone?)
It also, of course, will play DVDs (since it has a DVD drive in it), and audio CDs. Along with that, it will be able to download and play MP3s. All it needs now is a radio tuner. >:^)
But wait! It has USB ports! Perhaps a radio tuner isn't much of a fantasy after all!:^o
The OS in a gaming console dosen't need to be anything special just a simple OS that puts some drivers together.
Yes, but in choosing Linux, the Indrema has the advantage of being very cheap to develop for. You don't need to buy a devkit for $20,000 like you did for the PSX. You can use a modern PC running Linux.
They do plan on having a developer's edition of the unit, but the main differences will probably be in RAM/HD size and such.
PS2 is supposedly having trouble because it's very difficult to program for. Systems like the Indrema and Xbox, thanks mainly to the OSes inside (and therefore the APIs available), will be much easier to design for.
You make it sound as if some company scratched their head and said "humm.. Lunux is making money... we should use Lunux..." This is FAR from the truth.
John Gildred was, no doubt, a Linux user like many of us here. A number of articles have described the inception of Indrema: he and some friends were playing Quake, and realized the possibilites of Linux, and independent game development.
It would be a shame if Indrema were to fail in their dream of creating a Linux based console
One thing I noticed mentioned in the NextGen article (the April2001 issue) was a rumor of another Linux-based game console under development.
Indrema, however, has the support of RedHat (via DV/Linux) and CollabNet (via IDN and GameXchange). Since I know NO details about this other supposed system, I can't say what kind of support system they have behind them, nor what kind of nifty features the box will have, or, more importantly, be capable of having...
It looks like they diddn't understand the dynamics of the console market.
Ok, you obviously haven't done your homework, because you continue by saying:
no company who has successfully developed and marketed a console unit has made money off of the actual console - they make their cash from the software licensing agreements for games produced to run on their systems.
Yes... Thank you for explaining Indrema's business model.:^P
I'm not sure why anybody with deep pockets would invest in them, even moreso with all the budget-tightening and biz plan-reevaluating going on these days.
Indrema, to the best of my knowledge, was founded back in March2000. That was definitely NOT a time of budget-tightening or biz plan reevaluation!:)
Console wars have *never* been won on technical merit.
Exactly. This is why the 2600 kicked the Intellivision's ass in the market. This is why only now we are seeing handheld systems as good as the Lynx and GameGear.
Nintendo sucked all they could out of the GameBoy, including the "Color Game Boy" (GameBoys... still greyscale... in color cases) and finally the "Game Boy Color" (which is impossible to see half the time, just like the original GameBoys from ~89)
Also, just because MicroSoft says it's great and will market it to death, doesn't mean it will do well. (I won't bring up MSBob:) )
> Last time I checked, Indrema had no intention of selling the hardware at a loss.
Sorry. You're wrong!:)
To quote Karen McNeil's post on IDN's "Discuss" mailing list:
The only reasons that Indrema is selling the
developer console for more than the user console
are 1) the developer console will not be sold at
a steep loss, like the consumer console is, and
2) the dev console needs to be more expensive to
prevent consumers from just buying the dev
console to play uncertified games (thus
cannibalizing our revenue stream and forcing us
out of business.)
> But for the little guys, it means they can't do beta testing.
Actually, that's what the development box is for (which supposedly will cost $1000 maximum).
Test on that, get the final working version ceritied, and you're off..
Also, for the "simpler" projects, if you follow the guidelines (no multiple windows, for example), you probably really can do most or all of your testing on a reasonable Linux-based PC.
I really doubt the Indrema folks won't try to help people get their games certified.:)
Unfortunately, a good question. They're very hush-hush when it comes to talking about what companies will be releasing games for the system. Their reason is they don't want to promise anything they can't deliver.
However, my personal opinion is unless the developers will go berzerk, they provide a list. (ie, quit bluffing!) Broken promises are par for the course in the gaming industry, it seems.:)
Indrema's Indrema Developer's Network already HAS something similar to SourceForge. It's called "GameXchange," and, IIRC, is being handled by CollabNet.
Atari Games (now completely absorbed by Midway?)'s "San Francisco Rush" series is Wide Area Networked. I was at Atari's offices once and played SFRush against folks in Los Angelese and New York.
Awesome! I remember there was a Mac resource file hack for Marathon which made the aliens sound like Beavis and Butthead. I wonder if that can be made to work with the Linux version?!
CmdrTaco said: "I wish I could see this thing..."
My suggestion: Why don't all of us Quicktimeless users send messages to Sony asking them to put the trailer up in a more accessible format (MPEG, perhaps?)
Definitely get a 2600jr. They were produced much later, look much slicker, and, I assume will last a bit longer than the original 2600's from 8-12 years prior.
As for controllers, most Sega Master System and Sega Genesis controllers should work fine on any Atari-like system. (2600, Atari 8-bits, Commodore 64, Amiga)
Slashdot Mirror
I presented a two-part talk on programming in SDL to my local Linux users group a bit over a year ago.
;)
Check out part1, and then part2.
Be warned.. it's a bit dated. But it should be useful for the SDL-hacker-wannabe's
SDL provides support for mouse and joystick. It also supports MIDI, MOD, MP3, WAV and I think Ogg Vorbis sound formats. It also supports BMP, GIF, PNG, TIF, JPG and other graphics formats. Ditto for timers. Ditto for being cross-platform. :)
;)
As for 3D math, packed data, and other things, not everything is necessary for every game. In fact, SDL is not a game library... it's a multimedia library.
Because of this, SDL keeps everything "clean and simple." Internally it supports BMP and has some raw sound effects. If you want to roll your own or build an add-on library, you can. You're not weighed down by, say, MIDI support for a soundless application.
So, when I say SDL "supports GIF, PNG, MOD, MP3, MPEG, JPEG, etc.", what I actually mean is there are libraries which support these which are meant to be add-ons to SDL.
That's why most of my games require things like SDL_mixer and SDL_image.
After toying around with Xlib for a few years, SDL emerged. I initially started using it because of it's sound support (it could play MOD music files!), and eventually, as I started writing more projects, I used it for everything.
It's low-level enough for non-OPP-ing folks like myself... that's the most important part for me.
You can see my games here: newbreedsoftware.com/x
It's just Xlib, so it'll run on a plain old Linux/Unix box, too.. you'll just need to tilt your head 90 degrees. ;)
And, of course, if the Indrema comes out, it's gonna have one of these puppies in it. :)
/dev/null)
(Send all "yeah, but it wont have games" replies to
It's only in paper form right now. Hopefully NextGen will have an online version of the article, though...
Actually, they WERE out of Illinois. They moved to the bay area. I believe Keri from CollabNet said that they're HQ'd in Oakland right now.
Don't expect to get your open-source-powered Fridge anytime soon.
That's alright. I've already got my Linux-based PDA... See?
I'm sure this thing can do more than just play games. Maybe it could be advertised as a cheap pc if it has the right software.
:^o
It already is. The IES is planned to have a web browser (based on the Gecko rendering engine) and an e-mail client (which will work with any service).
Last I heard, the system was to have an Ethernet port built into it, and a 56.6k modem as an add-on. (Don't have DSL or Cablemodem? How about an Indrema LAN party, anyone?)
It also, of course, will play DVDs (since it has a DVD drive in it), and audio CDs. Along with that, it will be able to download and play MP3s. All it needs now is a radio tuner. >:^)
But wait! It has USB ports! Perhaps a radio tuner isn't much of a fantasy after all!
The OS in a gaming console dosen't need to be anything special just a simple OS that puts some drivers together.
Yes, but in choosing Linux, the Indrema has the advantage of being very cheap to develop for. You don't need to buy a devkit for $20,000 like you did for the PSX. You can use a modern PC running Linux.
They do plan on having a developer's edition of the unit, but the main differences will probably be in RAM/HD size and such.
PS2 is supposedly having trouble because it's very difficult to program for. Systems like the Indrema and Xbox, thanks mainly to the OSes inside (and therefore the APIs available), will be much easier to design for.
A company falls for the Linux hype
You make it sound as if some company scratched their head and said "humm.. Lunux is making money... we should use Lunux..." This is FAR from the truth.
John Gildred was, no doubt, a Linux user like many of us here. A number of articles have described the inception of Indrema: he and some friends were playing Quake, and realized the possibilites of Linux, and independent game development.
It would be a shame if Indrema were to fail in their dream of creating a Linux based console
One thing I noticed mentioned in the NextGen article (the April2001 issue) was a rumor of another Linux-based game console under development.
Indrema, however, has the support of RedHat (via DV/Linux) and CollabNet (via IDN and GameXchange). Since I know NO details about this other supposed system, I can't say what kind of support system they have behind them, nor what kind of nifty features the box will have, or, more importantly, be capable of having...
It looks like they diddn't understand the dynamics of the console market.
:^P
Ok, you obviously haven't done your homework, because you continue by saying:
no company who has successfully developed and marketed a console unit has made money off of the actual console - they make their cash from the software licensing agreements for games produced to run on their systems.
Yes... Thank you for explaining Indrema's business model.
I'm not sure why anybody with deep pockets would invest in them, even moreso with all the budget-tightening and biz plan-reevaluating going on these days.
:)
Indrema, to the best of my knowledge, was founded back in March2000. That was definitely NOT a time of budget-tightening or biz plan reevaluation!
Entropy said:
It should already have dvd built in, and I imagine that they could put some tivo-like features into it.
Uhh... Do you even know what the Indrema is? It is SPEC'd to have DVD playing, MP3 playing and PersonalTV ("TiVo") features in it!
On top of this, it'll have a web browser (based on Gecko), and an e-mail client.
Console wars have *never* been won on technical merit.
:) )
Exactly. This is why the 2600 kicked the Intellivision's ass in the market. This is why only now we are seeing handheld systems as good as the Lynx and GameGear.
Nintendo sucked all they could out of the GameBoy, including the "Color Game Boy" (GameBoys... still greyscale... in color cases) and finally the "Game Boy Color" (which is impossible to see half the time, just like the original GameBoys from ~89)
Also, just because MicroSoft says it's great and will market it to death, doesn't mean it will do well. (I won't bring up MSBob
> Last time I checked, Indrema had no intention of selling the hardware at a loss.
:)
Sorry. You're wrong!
To quote Karen McNeil's post on IDN's "Discuss" mailing list:
The only reasons that Indrema is selling the
developer console for more than the user console
are 1) the developer console will not be sold at
a steep loss, like the consumer console is, and
2) the dev console needs to be more expensive to
prevent consumers from just buying the dev
console to play uncertified games (thus
cannibalizing our revenue stream and forcing us
out of business.)
> outside of the Linux community, no-one has even heard of the lousy thing.
Perhaps laypeople haven't, but my site cites over 6 dozen articles on the Indrema and I'm finding more every time I look.
Also, the current issue of NextGen magazine touts that their next will have an article on it ("Developer'sDream?").
Ditto for the latest (rather, last, unfortunately) issue of MaximumLinux.
They're getting there... albeit quite slowly.
> But for the little guys, it means they can't do beta testing.
:)
Actually, that's what the development box is for (which supposedly will cost $1000 maximum).
Test on that, get the final working version ceritied, and you're off..
Also, for the "simpler" projects, if you follow the guidelines (no multiple windows, for example), you probably really can do most or all of your testing on a reasonable Linux-based PC.
I really doubt the Indrema folks won't try to help people get their games certified.
> Do they have a developer relations team?
:)
Unfortunately, a good question. They're very hush-hush when it comes to talking about what companies will be releasing games for the system. Their reason is they don't want to promise anything they can't deliver.
However, my personal opinion is unless the developers will go berzerk, they provide a list. (ie, quit bluffing!) Broken promises are par for the course in the gaming industry, it seems.
Indrema's Indrema Developer's Network already HAS something similar to SourceForge. It's called "GameXchange," and, IIRC, is being handled by CollabNet.
Atari Games (now completely absorbed by Midway?)'s "San Francisco Rush" series is Wide Area Networked. I was at Atari's offices once and played SFRush against folks in Los Angelese and New York.
:)
No cameras, though.
Awesome! I remember there was a Mac resource file hack for Marathon which made the aliens sound like Beavis and Butthead. I wonder if that can be made to work with the Linux version?!
CmdrTaco said: "I wish I could see this thing..." My suggestion: Why don't all of us Quicktimeless users send messages to Sony asking them to put the trailer up in a more accessible format (MPEG, perhaps?)
Definitely get a 2600jr. They were produced much later, look much slicker, and, I assume will last a bit longer than the original 2600's from 8-12 years prior.
:)
As for controllers, most Sega Master System and Sega Genesis controllers should work fine on any Atari-like system. (2600, Atari 8-bits, Commodore 64, Amiga)
That is, if you don't mind NOT having a stick.