Um, try reading the postings from the article about the $3000. There were links to mail list postings and the like (http://lists.kde.org, the kde-licensing list). There is no need to rehash that in this forum.
And what package is the dcop server executable in? Have you ever looked? That's right, kdelibs. The entire kdelibs package is meant to be what's necessary to run applications. It includes libraries, of course, and a few more things that are necessary.
So, YES kdelibs is sufficient to run KDE2 apps for those that do not wish to use such a beautiful environment.:)
The problem with Microsoft is not merely having an operating system and office suite. It is using secret APIs and what-not against others. Write a couple lines of code in Windows 3.x and voila, any non-MSDOS systems cannot run it. Do you want to write a competing office suite, web browser, etc? Well you have two paths, work around what APIs Microsoft has given out to the public and bugs in those API docs (MS Office obviously has access to all APIs). Or you can not make the program.
Now, with Linux, KDE, GNOME, etc, this freakin monopoly argument holds exactly zero credibility. First, you have the source. There are no secret APIs to give one person an advantage over another. There is no necessary bribes to find out secret API calls. Second, since this is free software, there is no financial problems with software bundling and the like. We all saw what happens when you ask computer manufacturer X to remove Office/Windows. If they want to use Corel or some other office suite/operating system, you pay for the Microsoft stuff with the computer and again with your chosen operating system/office suite. Third, and finally, Konqi/Tux are much cuter than that Windows flag logo thing.
Now, if you just hate KDE because it's KDE, be outright with it. Do not invent stupid arguments like "It is/might be Microsoft-esque." No need to use that jump-to-conclusions floor mat.
Running any program is a security risk, no matter how many times it was audited. When humans are involved, flaws are bound to exist. Therefore I suggest you remove all software included your BIOS and only turn on your computer and look at a blank screen. This will be a pretty secure system.
On the other hand if you want to run something, do what it requires. Be it install an operating system, some libs, whatever. If all we're doing is bitching about huge code bases, I can say the Linux kernel, glibc, the bsds, etc are too big, programmed by humans, and insecure, therefore they are equal to anything by Microsoft.
I suppose nothing is really stopping anyone from creating a project on sourceforge. Just plaster around that this isn't officially sanctioned by Linus or anything. One person would apply new patches and commit, then thousands of others would do a cvs update.
I must say since I implemented the MAPS RBL on my mail server, I get very little spam directly to my box. On the other hand, my ISP account gets about 3 messages a day and I haven't used that email address anywhere publicly for a good 2+ years.
I wouldn't give a whole lot of credit to folks posting in public web forums. Flames go on and on, nothing unusual.
What is unfortunate is when politicians turn to the same trolling techniques. In the minor closing of some federal government offices in December 1995, that week and a half, two weeks or so were completely unbearable by every worker if you believe the media and Democrats. Not a one of them had any money saved up, every Social Security employee, etc was starving for two weeks, and a large majority were expected to die. All the meanwhile, Mr. Newt was blamed for their deaths, retched poverty, starving our precious schoolchildren, killing elderly. Later, Mrs Clinton goes on the Today show the day after Monica was uncovered (by Matt Drudge, go Internet!), to say it is completely false and brought on by "a vast right-wing conspiracy to get my husband." She still uses that phrase today, despite that it is now so obvious the events did occur and weren't invented by Republicans.
Fast forward to today, it is still going on. After Lazio took over in the New York Senate campaign, she calls him a Gingrich-era Republican and not pro-choice enough. It's frankly a moot point, only some 8-11% of the general population vote based on abortion. With every freakin issue it's the same stupid rhetoric, "risky scheme." Education? Bush's plan is a risky scheme. The budget/a tiny tax break? It's a risky scheme. Not only can these people not think of a different way to phrase it, they have to go to the furthest extreme, modify Social Security in any way, it will kill every old person. Give a measily 0.1% tax break to people making under $40,000? It will kill every poor person on welfare.
There can be no real discussion of any issue with Democrats today. They give no alternate solutions, no reasons something will not work, nothing. It is either side with them, or you are killing everyone. Until these trolls get out of the Democrat party, I just do not understand a single one of them getting elected. This is by far more critical an issue, and I can see people becoming apathetic to politics/voting because of it.
This pattern will be broke eventually only by someone who has some concrete ideas on various issues. Voting for something has worked very well when tried, 1980, 1994.
What?? Slashdot is in the business of making and being the first on news. You don't want LinuxToday to beat Slashdot now, do you?? Imagine what would happen if that were to occur. *shudder*
... until it gets to the configuring stage. I've always had about 1 in 10 or so packages segfault while running the scripts there. Also, what is the criteria for holding packages back? Are they upgrades that are so incompatible they want you to remove the pack completely first (the only way I have found around it)?
Try loading the bootnet.img floppy image. With that you can either do a full install or uprgade. You will choose "Upgrade." Upgrading is essentially just looking at the list of rpms you have, looking at the list on the ftp site, and upgrading what's new.
I've ran with ext3 since late last year and have not had a single problem. Frequent power outages haven't lost a single file, unlike ext2 where I'd get crap moved to lost+found. I just wish they'd hurry up and port it to 2.3 so I can try out the 2.4pre's.
One key that is important is the system the rpm was built on. I have built an rpm on Redhat, then tried to install it on Mandrake only to get some libstdc++* dependency error. If you are able to compile things, then get the src.rpm's whenever possible and compile them yourself. That way you still get the ease of rpm management. Rpms are fine, but don't expect to mix distributions too much.
I've used Linux for many, many years now and just haven't seen these vast problems people claim with RPM. Sure from time to time you get "libttf.so is required." So you go back, download a ttf rpm and do that. Places like rpmfind.net list out the files, so combine that with Google and you can find any package with libttf.so in it.
Not anything on this poster, but usually these rants are follow by "Debian is the only true solution." Frankly, I've seen just as much trouble with Debian and apt. A while ago, I did something like "apt-get upgrade lynx" to upgrade lynx. What's it say, but "the following packages were held back: lynx." Umm, ok. Many times I've had the post-install script fail. What's the error? "Segmentation fault." Once I managed to find my way through dpkg to look up the scripts, but it wasn't as easy as rpm's --script option. Last Friday I was giving a dist-upgrade to a system. I gave up when 5 mirrors I tried were missing some debconf package while it was in the update files. I will say, when apt does work, it is quite nice. I just do not see it conquering that ever-so-evil rpm.
Back to the topic at hand, Loki's install program has been quite easy for me. Even back in Railroad Tycoon II days, when it was all text, I just entered the directory and voila, it installs there. I can see there some trouble for all these OpenGL games. But that is more a problem for the distributions, 3D card makers and less for game maker(s).
I don't come back for the Slashdot crew, but the ensuing conversation. I cannot deprive all you millions of viewers of my grand insight in good conscience.:)
Wait, this isn't the forum where people get all whipped up into a frenzy and say they'll boycott or send "Fuck You" letters to the evil businesses? You must be thinking of a web site by a similar name circa 1997.
Look at today's articles. Some place says they just made multiple chips in one. Big whoop, that won't be anywhere near available for nerds for another 5 years, even then costing more than the quad Athlons we'll be able to put together. Then there's some hippie book review. Then we have yet another insightful, "How do we get people away from Microsoft?" AskSlashdot, as if that's never been discussed here thirty times before. Oh! Oh! Maybe someday in or about 2001, Sony may, hopefully, open up some specs of Playstation 2. When a company says "next year" you know that means the furthest possible date in or around the given year. So you've got to make sure Sony still feels the same way by December 31, 2002. Finally, we all started the day at 2 am with yet another "supercomputer." It's not like the definition of a supercomputer changes every 16 seconds, or we aren't away of any Beowulf cluster that can do the same. Oh and we can't forget yet another "stick it to the man!" / "I want to use a trademark for free" story like this one. When one wishes to start a new, fun pre-teen girly kind of thing, they can either name it something with Barbie or be inventive. We can see what this guy wants.
Today Slashdot is about press releases, be they "Hey look at us, we're gonna be open source too!" or inventions we will never have and the usual band of editorials about how we should all gather round a bonfire and hold hands. They take themselves very seriously now, which is so unfortunate.
Like your link at the bottom of the page, if this site were about something not related in any way with the Barbie, like barbecuing, I could be with ya. But come on, the Barbie has been around what, 50 or 60 years? So they'll have a good legal case against anyone who uses the name in relation to girly things.
Think up a new word. Heck, invent one. I'll get ya started, how about theBrittneys.com.:)
KOffice does pretty very well on many of those points for docs you want to create. The MS imports of course aren't real complete (translated, ready for someone to work on). But the imperitive thing to get working from #2 is the Office scripting. I've found that most Office documents are primarily used for carrying viruses. Get that ported to Linux, the rest will follow easily.
That's a nice command, but really, if someone is smart enough to get in, get root, and replace bins. Don't you think they'd include a hacked rpm too? Sure your low-level script kiddie wouldn't, but for serious cracks you cannot trust a single thing. That's why security has to be kept in the forefront from the time you build a machine.
Really you can never know if you are currently vulnerable with a system that's been active for ages. As Rootprompt.org's Cracked! series of articles shows, the first thing script kiddies and crackers do is start replacing standard system utilities. I've seen on Linux various hacks to hide processes, kernel modules, etc. So just doing lsmod suddenly means very little.:)
Your best bet is to start with a fresh install. I'd say there's 99.99% chance that your standard Mandrake, Redhat, Debian, etc don't have these rootkit bins on their CDs. I have taken to running tcpdump on my little ppp connection (damn phone company refuses to put DSL here) whenever I am online. It is quite interesting seeing just how many attempts people make to various things, SMB is the most common, telnet, linuxconf, imap, etc are all attempted.
Perhaps the best method would be to find an old 486, P90 or whatever, and run one of those floppy setups like the Linux Router Project. Poke a couple holes for the services you need to pass through to a full Linux server (web, mail, etc). With the system running fully in memory, any bins a cracker replaces get restored by a mere reboot. And by having a very limited number of bins on the system, that gives crackers vastly less chance to successfully getting into your system. You will still have to keep abreast on security notices for the things you do have.
Heh, teach me for moving on. I played with utah-glx for quite a while, trying to get things working. Eventually I gave up. Time went on, XF86 4 came out, I switched to it. 3D would be nice, but it's not mandatory for me but a game here and there would be nice.
Anyway with XF86 4, Xinerama now, life is good. So, when's all that legendary wonderful 3D stuff from Precision Insight going to come out for XF86 4? Will it be another couple years of "when it comes out it will be oh so wonderful" like we had with XF86 4? Did XF86 3.x have something akin to Xinerama, or just a separate display for the other card and monitor?
Napster only affects the distribution part of IP law. So, if you feel people should be able to distribute as they see fit, then what leg does the GPL have to stand on? There are arguments from some that don't think the GPL is just (that Quake thing a few months back comes to mind). If you want the GPL to mean more than the feces my dog manufactures, you must recognize that an author has the right to decide how his material is distributed.
If you want to bitch about the RIAA complaining when people make MP3s of CDs they own, that's one thing. But just claiming "IP law is bogus" really denegrates what all this free software stuff is about as well. If you give can give me an MP3 of any song, then I can give folks copies of the Linux kernel (gcc, emacs, whatever) without any licensing, effectively making it too then public domain. Then anyone can create a nice operating system without these cumbersome restrictions.
I say we all take the source of a GPL (or similar) program, microsoft specification, or whatever, remove the bothersome license stuff, and offer it on Gnutella. It's about time the source was freed from those evil GPL monopolies. Licenses are meant to be broken, right? If someone wishes to use some code from a program for a private project, why should they be forbidden? Information wants to be free, not constrained under such license agreements! Viva l'information!
Slashdot Mirror
Um, try reading the postings from the article about the $3000. There were links to mail list postings and the like (http://lists.kde.org, the kde-licensing list). There is no need to rehash that in this forum.
And what package is the dcop server executable in? Have you ever looked? That's right, kdelibs. The entire kdelibs package is meant to be what's necessary to run applications. It includes libraries, of course, and a few more things that are necessary.
:)
So, YES kdelibs is sufficient to run KDE2 apps for those that do not wish to use such a beautiful environment.
The problem with Microsoft is not merely having an operating system and office suite. It is using secret APIs and what-not against others. Write a couple lines of code in Windows 3.x and voila, any non-MSDOS systems cannot run it. Do you want to write a competing office suite, web browser, etc? Well you have two paths, work around what APIs Microsoft has given out to the public and bugs in those API docs (MS Office obviously has access to all APIs). Or you can not make the program.
Now, with Linux, KDE, GNOME, etc, this freakin monopoly argument holds exactly zero credibility. First, you have the source. There are no secret APIs to give one person an advantage over another. There is no necessary bribes to find out secret API calls. Second, since this is free software, there is no financial problems with software bundling and the like. We all saw what happens when you ask computer manufacturer X to remove Office/Windows. If they want to use Corel or some other office suite/operating system, you pay for the Microsoft stuff with the computer and again with your chosen operating system/office suite. Third, and finally, Konqi/Tux are much cuter than that Windows flag logo thing.
Now, if you just hate KDE because it's KDE, be outright with it. Do not invent stupid arguments like "It is/might be Microsoft-esque." No need to use that jump-to-conclusions floor mat.
Running any program is a security risk, no matter how many times it was audited. When humans are involved, flaws are bound to exist. Therefore I suggest you remove all software included your BIOS and only turn on your computer and look at a blank screen. This will be a pretty secure system.
On the other hand if you want to run something, do what it requires. Be it install an operating system, some libs, whatever. If all we're doing is bitching about huge code bases, I can say the Linux kernel, glibc, the bsds, etc are too big, programmed by humans, and insecure, therefore they are equal to anything by Microsoft.
I suppose nothing is really stopping anyone from creating a project on sourceforge. Just plaster around that this isn't officially sanctioned by Linus or anything. One person would apply new patches and commit, then thousands of others would do a cvs update.
I must say since I implemented the MAPS RBL on my mail server, I get very little spam directly to my box. On the other hand, my ISP account gets about 3 messages a day and I haven't used that email address anywhere publicly for a good 2+ years.
I wouldn't give a whole lot of credit to folks posting in public web forums. Flames go on and on, nothing unusual.
What is unfortunate is when politicians turn to the same trolling techniques. In the minor closing of some federal government offices in December 1995, that week and a half, two weeks or so were completely unbearable by every worker if you believe the media and Democrats. Not a one of them had any money saved up, every Social Security employee, etc was starving for two weeks, and a large majority were expected to die. All the meanwhile, Mr. Newt was blamed for their deaths, retched poverty, starving our precious schoolchildren, killing elderly. Later, Mrs Clinton goes on the Today show the day after Monica was uncovered (by Matt Drudge, go Internet!), to say it is completely false and brought on by "a vast right-wing conspiracy to get my husband." She still uses that phrase today, despite that it is now so obvious the events did occur and weren't invented by Republicans.
Fast forward to today, it is still going on. After Lazio took over in the New York Senate campaign, she calls him a Gingrich-era Republican and not pro-choice enough. It's frankly a moot point, only some 8-11% of the general population vote based on abortion. With every freakin issue it's the same stupid rhetoric, "risky scheme." Education? Bush's plan is a risky scheme. The budget/a tiny tax break? It's a risky scheme. Not only can these people not think of a different way to phrase it, they have to go to the furthest extreme, modify Social Security in any way, it will kill every old person. Give a measily 0.1% tax break to people making under $40,000? It will kill every poor person on welfare.
There can be no real discussion of any issue with Democrats today. They give no alternate solutions, no reasons something will not work, nothing. It is either side with them, or you are killing everyone. Until these trolls get out of the Democrat party, I just do not understand a single one of them getting elected. This is by far more critical an issue, and I can see people becoming apathetic to politics/voting because of it.
This pattern will be broke eventually only by someone who has some concrete ideas on various issues. Voting for something has worked very well when tried, 1980, 1994.
What?? Slashdot is in the business of making and being the first on news. You don't want LinuxToday to beat Slashdot now, do you?? Imagine what would happen if that were to occur. *shudder*
... until it gets to the configuring stage. I've always had about 1 in 10 or so packages segfault while running the scripts there. Also, what is the criteria for holding packages back? Are they upgrades that are so incompatible they want you to remove the pack completely first (the only way I have found around it)?
Try loading the bootnet.img floppy image. With that you can either do a full install or uprgade. You will choose "Upgrade." Upgrading is essentially just looking at the list of rpms you have, looking at the list on the ftp site, and upgrading what's new.
I've ran with ext3 since late last year and have not had a single problem. Frequent power outages haven't lost a single file, unlike ext2 where I'd get crap moved to lost+found. I just wish they'd hurry up and port it to 2.3 so I can try out the 2.4pre's.
I thought I read somewhere that in the 2.3 line they got around the 2gb limit (for x86). Am I confused?
One key that is important is the system the rpm was built on. I have built an rpm on Redhat, then tried to install it on Mandrake only to get some libstdc++* dependency error. If you are able to compile things, then get the src.rpm's whenever possible and compile them yourself. That way you still get the ease of rpm management. Rpms are fine, but don't expect to mix distributions too much.
I've used Linux for many, many years now and just haven't seen these vast problems people claim with RPM. Sure from time to time you get "libttf.so is required." So you go back, download a ttf rpm and do that. Places like rpmfind.net list out the files, so combine that with Google and you can find any package with libttf.so in it.
Not anything on this poster, but usually these rants are follow by "Debian is the only true solution." Frankly, I've seen just as much trouble with Debian and apt. A while ago, I did something like "apt-get upgrade lynx" to upgrade lynx. What's it say, but "the following packages were held back: lynx." Umm, ok. Many times I've had the post-install script fail. What's the error? "Segmentation fault." Once I managed to find my way through dpkg to look up the scripts, but it wasn't as easy as rpm's --script option. Last Friday I was giving a dist-upgrade to a system. I gave up when 5 mirrors I tried were missing some debconf package while it was in the update files. I will say, when apt does work, it is quite nice. I just do not see it conquering that ever-so-evil rpm.
Back to the topic at hand, Loki's install program has been quite easy for me. Even back in Railroad Tycoon II days, when it was all text, I just entered the directory and voila, it installs there. I can see there some trouble for all these OpenGL games. But that is more a problem for the distributions, 3D card makers and less for game maker(s).
I don't come back for the Slashdot crew, but the ensuing conversation. I cannot deprive all you millions of viewers of my grand insight in good conscience. :)
Wait, this isn't the forum where people get all whipped up into a frenzy and say they'll boycott or send "Fuck You" letters to the evil businesses? You must be thinking of a web site by a similar name circa 1997.
Look at today's articles. Some place says they just made multiple chips in one. Big whoop, that won't be anywhere near available for nerds for another 5 years, even then costing more than the quad Athlons we'll be able to put together. Then there's some hippie book review. Then we have yet another insightful, "How do we get people away from Microsoft?" AskSlashdot, as if that's never been discussed here thirty times before. Oh! Oh! Maybe someday in or about 2001, Sony may, hopefully, open up some specs of Playstation 2. When a company says "next year" you know that means the furthest possible date in or around the given year. So you've got to make sure Sony still feels the same way by December 31, 2002. Finally, we all started the day at 2 am with yet another "supercomputer." It's not like the definition of a supercomputer changes every 16 seconds, or we aren't away of any Beowulf cluster that can do the same. Oh and we can't forget yet another "stick it to the man!" / "I want to use a trademark for free" story like this one. When one wishes to start a new, fun pre-teen girly kind of thing, they can either name it something with Barbie or be inventive. We can see what this guy wants.
Today Slashdot is about press releases, be they "Hey look at us, we're gonna be open source too!" or inventions we will never have and the usual band of editorials about how we should all gather round a bonfire and hold hands. They take themselves very seriously now, which is so unfortunate.
Like your link at the bottom of the page, if this site were about something not related in any way with the Barbie, like barbecuing, I could be with ya. But come on, the Barbie has been around what, 50 or 60 years? So they'll have a good legal case against anyone who uses the name in relation to girly things.
:)
Think up a new word. Heck, invent one. I'll get ya started, how about theBrittneys.com.
KOffice does pretty very well on many of those points for docs you want to create. The MS imports of course aren't real complete (translated, ready for someone to work on). But the imperitive thing to get working from #2 is the Office scripting. I've found that most Office documents are primarily used for carrying viruses. Get that ported to Linux, the rest will follow easily.
That's a nice command, but really, if someone is smart enough to get in, get root, and replace bins. Don't you think they'd include a hacked rpm too? Sure your low-level script kiddie wouldn't, but for serious cracks you cannot trust a single thing. That's why security has to be kept in the forefront from the time you build a machine.
My personal favorite article submission was this:
2000-05-04 19:49:50 Best way for Slashdotters to feel sorry for me? (askslashdot,ed) (rejected)
I had a nice write up put in for that. Too bad ya can't get it back...
Really you can never know if you are currently vulnerable with a system that's been active for ages. As Rootprompt.org's Cracked! series of articles shows, the first thing script kiddies and crackers do is start replacing standard system utilities. I've seen on Linux various hacks to hide processes, kernel modules, etc. So just doing lsmod suddenly means very little. :)
Your best bet is to start with a fresh install. I'd say there's 99.99% chance that your standard Mandrake, Redhat, Debian, etc don't have these rootkit bins on their CDs. I have taken to running tcpdump on my little ppp connection (damn phone company refuses to put DSL here) whenever I am online. It is quite interesting seeing just how many attempts people make to various things, SMB is the most common, telnet, linuxconf, imap, etc are all attempted.
Perhaps the best method would be to find an old 486, P90 or whatever, and run one of those floppy setups like the Linux Router Project. Poke a couple holes for the services you need to pass through to a full Linux server (web, mail, etc). With the system running fully in memory, any bins a cracker replaces get restored by a mere reboot. And by having a very limited number of bins on the system, that gives crackers vastly less chance to successfully getting into your system. You will still have to keep abreast on security notices for the things you do have.
A good read on the damage one cracker can cause with a sniffer, check RootPrompt's Cracked! series of articles.
Heh, teach me for moving on. I played with utah-glx for quite a while, trying to get things working. Eventually I gave up. Time went on, XF86 4 came out, I switched to it. 3D would be nice, but it's not mandatory for me but a game here and there would be nice.
Anyway with XF86 4, Xinerama now, life is good. So, when's all that legendary wonderful 3D stuff from Precision Insight going to come out for XF86 4? Will it be another couple years of "when it comes out it will be oh so wonderful" like we had with XF86 4? Did XF86 3.x have something akin to Xinerama, or just a separate display for the other card and monitor?
Napster only affects the distribution part of IP law. So, if you feel people should be able to distribute as they see fit, then what leg does the GPL have to stand on? There are arguments from some that don't think the GPL is just (that Quake thing a few months back comes to mind). If you want the GPL to mean more than the feces my dog manufactures, you must recognize that an author has the right to decide how his material is distributed.
If you want to bitch about the RIAA complaining when people make MP3s of CDs they own, that's one thing. But just claiming "IP law is bogus" really denegrates what all this free software stuff is about as well. If you give can give me an MP3 of any song, then I can give folks copies of the Linux kernel (gcc, emacs, whatever) without any licensing, effectively making it too then public domain. Then anyone can create a nice operating system without these cumbersome restrictions.
I say we all take the source of a GPL (or similar) program, microsoft specification, or whatever, remove the bothersome license stuff, and offer it on Gnutella. It's about time the source was freed from those evil GPL monopolies. Licenses are meant to be broken, right? If someone wishes to use some code from a program for a private project, why should they be forbidden? Information wants to be free, not constrained under such license agreements! Viva l'information!