I love how they trot out the "their own lawyers couldn't do it!" argument. What they could not do was tell which one was which, nothing was said about telling them APART. They do not have the same shape, aspect ratio, or button arrangement. Telling them apart is easy. Telling which is which may not be.
Actually they did, by broadcasting it freely, unencrypted over the airwaves. This isn't "sniffing". You could receive that signal with a random piece of wire. If you broadcast something, it is, sort of by definition, BROADCAST. Get it? You not only left the door open, you threw your stuff out the window, then complained when someone came by and picked it up off the street.
So let me see if I understand your argument. People aren't stupid, because they don't know the implications of unsecured wifi. Or put another way, people aren't stupid because they are ignorant and lazy instead? Every freakin router manual you will ever find, as part of the 'simple setup steps' tells you to change the default SSID, and turn on some sort of encryption. If they don't do that, then it sure sounds stupid to me.
Sure. Oh wait, except that to do so, you would have to break the encryption, which is against the law. In fact, now that I think about it, that makes your analogy completely useless, doesn't it? You *do* see the difference, right?
Nah, it's really much closer to "go around the city, looking at every house, and find several people broadcasting video of them having sex", since nothing Google did violated the internal network, all they did was receive a radio signal that was unencrypted.
If you leave your house unlocked, no, that doesn't allow me to go in and take whatever I want, because the DOOR IS CLOSED. Now, if you opened your door, and put a sign on the porch saying "Hey, I have stuff in here", then yes, it is your fault. Same as if you were broadcasting unencrypted wifi signals.
And while we are on the topic, let me educate you a bit. If you send out an unencrypted radio signal, and I do nothing more than receive it, then I did not "go into the network" to get anything. I received exactly what was sent to me. See the difference?
Uhm, no, my response would be tampering with the mail is a federal offense. Receiving unencrypted, publicly accessible radio transmissions isn't. If you are broadcasting unencrypted wifi signals, you do not have an expectation of privacy, any more than broadcasting an FM radio signal does. If I seal an envelope and mail it, and you steam it open, or shine a light through it to read it, you know you are looking at something you shouldn't, because it was SEALED. Get it?
Because he lost an argument with me on another thread, and now amuses himself by posting after me on others, listing a fake IP address for me, and asking the moderators to make me stop posting because it offends him or something.
No, see, unlike some, I don't just 'spew shit'. I know what I'm talking about, or I don't talk. You should try it sometime. Your comments lumping all Muslims into this giant pot of evil bastards is not only offensive to them, but to most thinking people. Your average Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Zoroastrian, or anything else is no more evil, warped, or depraved than anyone else, including Americans and Christians. There are those who fully support the bombing of abortion clinics, because they justify it as ridding the world of evil, even if it kills innocents. There are those who believe suicide bombing is justified because they are fighting for their beliefs. The vast majority of EITHER religion do not follow those beliefs, nor do they support them. Saying that all Muslims are suicide bombers, would become suicide bombers, or even support suicide bombers is not only wrong, it is downright ignorant, and probably willfully so. You know little about what they believe because you've been told what to believe, and like a good little sheep, you took it to heart. You never thought to analyze the situation, talk to any Muslims, read up about their actual beliefs, or anything else. If you had, you would know that roughly 95% of Muslims decry suicide bombings, and terrorist acts, and are perfectly peace loving people. Much like Christians though, many can be led to hate by people in authority, who presume to speak for God/Allah, but actually don't. Fred Phelps and the Westborough baptist folks come to mind, and are only half a step from outright violence themselves. I haven't seen any Christian groups out fighting them, very few even pay attention or care what they do. Does that make Americans or Christians "evil" and supportive of bad behavior? Or are they like most people, just trying to live their lives, and in no position to really do anything about it? When was the last time you went out trying to capture a serial killer? An abortion clinic bomber? Timothy McVeigh? I suspect you never have, and probably never even bothered to denounce those acts to anyone. By your own definition then, you are as evil as those who committed those crimes, because you personally didn't do anything to fight them.
Please note that posting personally identifying information is not only a ToS violation, but a violation of several privacy laws. Now, I don't know if you are dense, or you think I am, but that isn't my IP, either internal or external. Nice try though.
Sure we can. If you would actually contribute to them, instead of throwing out fun stuff like "you are a jackass". As for 'stalking' you across threads, I think if anyone interested would look up, they would find that you replied to ME, not the other way around. But hey, don't let facts get in your way.
Sure, and one day I will be able to converse, and even disagree, with the policies of my government without ending up on a terrorist watch list, cataloged by the Echelon system, or any number of other things. I mean, we have that freedom, right? It isn't like anyone just passed a law allowing indefinite detention without trial or anything. It isn't like we have the death penalty, or have anyone running for office that wants to force us to follow their religious beliefs....
Maturity is earned, but earned through demonstrating you have it. We haven't done that yet. There are still many parts of this country where it isn't safe to have dusky skin. There are many parts of this country where admitting to being gay gets you dragged behind a truck til you are dead. Do you know what the murder rate is in the United States? I do, cause I looked it up. 5,000 a year. 28,700 rapes, 133,000 robberies, 263,000 aggravated assaults. You see, there ARE a whole bunch of people being killed, raped, assaulted in our 'mature' society, and what happens to the perpetrators is not much, usually. The conviction rate for murder in the US is around 20%. Of course none of these statistics count the people killed by the death penalty, official government sanction, or by just plain being disappeared.
The truth of it is, we like to think we are better than everyone else, while we spend billions killing people to make sure the oil keeps flowing, and a pittance to reduce the rate of infant mortality. A culture is 'mature' when it works well for everyone, and we are nowhere near that.
Yes, the guy who provided actual evidence, and added something to the conversation, is the troll. You are absolutely correct. Just like you were in the last thread you still keep replying to, with witty things like "You are a jackass". To those who claim we are the 'mature' culture, I provide as my evidence to the contrary noh8rz2.
One more try: Please provide an example of how I am harassing you, violating your rights, violating any laws, or violating the ToS here? Please tell me why YOU keep replying, if I am such a jackass, and so repugnant? Please point to where you added anything to this conversation resembling evidence, or even informed opinion? No?
No, I think you missed the point. The point is, all cultures have fringe elements. All cultures have those that justify their actions, no matter what they are. We have people killing abortion providers because they think God wants them to. The real difference between radical Islam and radical Christianity is usually desperation. The harder people get pushed, the more desperate they get, and the more radicalized they become.
Maybe you need a history lesson. Do you know who taught Osama bin Laden to kill people? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't other Muslims. It was the United States. He was a useful tool, and even a friend, when he was committing terrorist acts and ambush attacks against the Russians in Afghanistan. He was promised a good deal, promises then broken when he was no longer of use to us, and no longer politically viable to keep around. Betrayal almost never ends with everyone going about their merry way.
The same people who orchestrate these attacks, the same people who finance them, and make them possible, are often doing so with our training, and our money. We still pour millions of dollars into Afghanistan, which is becoming even more radicalized every day. We patronize the Saudis, Pakistan, and several other countries we know provide safe harbor for terrorists. So I'll ask you, why is it ok for us to use terrorists, fund and train them, and turn them loose on others, but then complain, and call them immature, if they turn on us?
Another thing, since Islamic culture has been around for nearly 15 HUNDRED years longer than American culture has, why on earth do you think WE are the mature ones? Because we only kill people when they are really bad? Because we can say with a straight face that there were only 15 instances of 'collateral damage' when we popped a missile into a building to kill a suspected terrorist? Maybe you can explain to me the difference, to the people on the ground, between a suicide bomber and a missile attack, both of which kill innocent bystanders?
Nice avoidance of the evidence too, by the way. You ignore the talk of killings, beatings, being assaulted, spit on, and several other things, only to divert attention by saying 'hate crimes covers a lot of ground'? Did you look at any of those reports? I'm guessing not, since I didn't spoon feed you the links. Try taking a look at the NYC report, and see what it says. Never mind, I know you won't. It might interrupt your fantasy world.
Way to miss the point entirely. What I said was, quite plainly, we weren't even targeting the right people. I don't know how many Muslims were dragged from their homes and killed, but I know at least 7 Sikhs were assaulted, a number of Hindus, and anyone of middle eastern descent.
A good many of those incidents were listed in the New York City Commission on Civil Rights report dated summer of 2003. A Ball State study released in September 2003, using FBI uniform crime reporting software data, found a 1600% increase in hate crimes directed to those thought to be of Muslim extraction. CNN reported on Sept. 16, 2001 that more than 300 reports of hate crimes had been received by the Council on American-Muslim Relations, ranging from being spit on to being physically assaulted at their homes or businesses.
Need me to go on? I can do this all day. Of course you could have too, it was pretty easy to look up after all, but its way easier to just act like I don't know what I'm talking about because it doesn't agree with your worldview.
Ok, let me just say... huh? What ad hominems or defamation did I get into? Maybe you can point that out, since you still haven't pointed out any of the laws I've allegedly broken, or ToS provisions I've broken.
And yet, after September 11, many Sikhs, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and who knows who else were attacked, killed, threatened in their homes. We aren't even smart enough to seek vengeance against the right people. If you think America is 'grown up' because no one gets killed when someone drops a cross in a vat of urine, you don't know a thing about America. Do you really believe that all Muslims approve of suicide bombings? Do you really believe all Muslims think people not of their faith must be destroyed? I have bad news for you, if that were true, we'd all already be dead.
The grown up countries, and grown up people, realize that there are extremists in any group or religion, that there will always be those that justify whatever actions they take as being the right ones, religiously speaking, and that find them perfectly moral. In fact, it's awfully rare to find a man who doesn't think every action he takes is justified by something, whether he's right or not.
So let me see if I understand this... By posting comments to a public board, I am violating your rights? Maybe you can explain that to me, or cite the relevant laws in your country that make speaking in your general direction illegal? I'm genuinely curious.
Oh, and no, I'm not lonely, I just didn't happen to be near anyone at the time. Thanks for the concern though.
To use one of your own responses, slap the handcuffs on me then. I can pretty much say whatever I like, regardless of your feelings, and no, it does not constitute 'verbal assault', or a violation of your personal space. If I stood hovering over you, that would be a violation of your personal space, but since no one is within several hundred feet of me at the moment, I can guarantee I am in no one's personal space. As to verbal assault, if I threatened you in some way, you might have some case, but I haven't. See, here's the thing. I have every right to freedom of speech, within the bounds of the rules set up for this private space, and unless I violate them, there isn't anything you can do. The proper thing to do, if you don't like what I'm saying, is to not listen, because while I have freedom of speech, I have no guaranteed right of an audience.
Actually they aren't. I've even been known to post about doctor's salaries and things like that. Oh, and I'm not talking to you, I'm posting on a board, and I can do that whenever I like, whether you like it or not. Have a nice day.
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Including keeping you from installing anything that might interfere with it.
I love how they trot out the "their own lawyers couldn't do it!" argument. What they could not do was tell which one was which, nothing was said about telling them APART. They do not have the same shape, aspect ratio, or button arrangement. Telling them apart is easy. Telling which is which may not be.
Actually they did, by broadcasting it freely, unencrypted over the airwaves. This isn't "sniffing". You could receive that signal with a random piece of wire. If you broadcast something, it is, sort of by definition, BROADCAST. Get it? You not only left the door open, you threw your stuff out the window, then complained when someone came by and picked it up off the street.
So let me see if I understand your argument. People aren't stupid, because they don't know the implications of unsecured wifi. Or put another way, people aren't stupid because they are ignorant and lazy instead? Every freakin router manual you will ever find, as part of the 'simple setup steps' tells you to change the default SSID, and turn on some sort of encryption. If they don't do that, then it sure sounds stupid to me.
Sure. Oh wait, except that to do so, you would have to break the encryption, which is against the law. In fact, now that I think about it, that makes your analogy completely useless, doesn't it? You *do* see the difference, right?
Nah, it's really much closer to "go around the city, looking at every house, and find several people broadcasting video of them having sex", since nothing Google did violated the internal network, all they did was receive a radio signal that was unencrypted.
If you leave your house unlocked, no, that doesn't allow me to go in and take whatever I want, because the DOOR IS CLOSED. Now, if you opened your door, and put a sign on the porch saying "Hey, I have stuff in here", then yes, it is your fault. Same as if you were broadcasting unencrypted wifi signals.
And while we are on the topic, let me educate you a bit. If you send out an unencrypted radio signal, and I do nothing more than receive it, then I did not "go into the network" to get anything. I received exactly what was sent to me. See the difference?
Uhm, no, my response would be tampering with the mail is a federal offense. Receiving unencrypted, publicly accessible radio transmissions isn't. If you are broadcasting unencrypted wifi signals, you do not have an expectation of privacy, any more than broadcasting an FM radio signal does. If I seal an envelope and mail it, and you steam it open, or shine a light through it to read it, you know you are looking at something you shouldn't, because it was SEALED. Get it?
Because he lost an argument with me on another thread, and now amuses himself by posting after me on others, listing a fake IP address for me, and asking the moderators to make me stop posting because it offends him or something.
In other words, because he's a troll.
No, see, unlike some, I don't just 'spew shit'. I know what I'm talking about, or I don't talk. You should try it sometime. Your comments lumping all Muslims into this giant pot of evil bastards is not only offensive to them, but to most thinking people. Your average Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Zoroastrian, or anything else is no more evil, warped, or depraved than anyone else, including Americans and Christians. There are those who fully support the bombing of abortion clinics, because they justify it as ridding the world of evil, even if it kills innocents. There are those who believe suicide bombing is justified because they are fighting for their beliefs. The vast majority of EITHER religion do not follow those beliefs, nor do they support them. Saying that all Muslims are suicide bombers, would become suicide bombers, or even support suicide bombers is not only wrong, it is downright ignorant, and probably willfully so. You know little about what they believe because you've been told what to believe, and like a good little sheep, you took it to heart. You never thought to analyze the situation, talk to any Muslims, read up about their actual beliefs, or anything else. If you had, you would know that roughly 95% of Muslims decry suicide bombings, and terrorist acts, and are perfectly peace loving people. Much like Christians though, many can be led to hate by people in authority, who presume to speak for God/Allah, but actually don't. Fred Phelps and the Westborough baptist folks come to mind, and are only half a step from outright violence themselves. I haven't seen any Christian groups out fighting them, very few even pay attention or care what they do. Does that make Americans or Christians "evil" and supportive of bad behavior? Or are they like most people, just trying to live their lives, and in no position to really do anything about it? When was the last time you went out trying to capture a serial killer? An abortion clinic bomber? Timothy McVeigh? I suspect you never have, and probably never even bothered to denounce those acts to anyone. By your own definition then, you are as evil as those who committed those crimes, because you personally didn't do anything to fight them.
I think you meant tmbw;cr, don't you? Too many big words, couldn't read?
Well gosh there, genius, that isn't even the same IP as you posted for me in the other thread. You would think you could at least lie consistently.
Dear sSlashdot moderators, please flag this account as a troll, possibly in need of remedial schooling.
Please note that posting personally identifying information is not only a ToS violation, but a violation of several privacy laws. Now, I don't know if you are dense, or you think I am, but that isn't my IP, either internal or external. Nice try though.
Go for it. I eagerly await the arrival of the relevant authorities, to arrest me for replying on a public forum.
Sure we can. If you would actually contribute to them, instead of throwing out fun stuff like "you are a jackass". As for 'stalking' you across threads, I think if anyone interested would look up, they would find that you replied to ME, not the other way around. But hey, don't let facts get in your way.
Sure, and one day I will be able to converse, and even disagree, with the policies of my government without ending up on a terrorist watch list, cataloged by the Echelon system, or any number of other things. I mean, we have that freedom, right? It isn't like anyone just passed a law allowing indefinite detention without trial or anything. It isn't like we have the death penalty, or have anyone running for office that wants to force us to follow their religious beliefs....
Maturity is earned, but earned through demonstrating you have it. We haven't done that yet. There are still many parts of this country where it isn't safe to have dusky skin. There are many parts of this country where admitting to being gay gets you dragged behind a truck til you are dead. Do you know what the murder rate is in the United States? I do, cause I looked it up. 5,000 a year. 28,700 rapes, 133,000 robberies, 263,000 aggravated assaults. You see, there ARE a whole bunch of people being killed, raped, assaulted in our 'mature' society, and what happens to the perpetrators is not much, usually. The conviction rate for murder in the US is around 20%. Of course none of these statistics count the people killed by the death penalty, official government sanction, or by just plain being disappeared.
The truth of it is, we like to think we are better than everyone else, while we spend billions killing people to make sure the oil keeps flowing, and a pittance to reduce the rate of infant mortality. A culture is 'mature' when it works well for everyone, and we are nowhere near that.
Yes, the guy who provided actual evidence, and added something to the conversation, is the troll. You are absolutely correct. Just like you were in the last thread you still keep replying to, with witty things like "You are a jackass". To those who claim we are the 'mature' culture, I provide as my evidence to the contrary noh8rz2.
One more try: Please provide an example of how I am harassing you, violating your rights, violating any laws, or violating the ToS here? Please tell me why YOU keep replying, if I am such a jackass, and so repugnant? Please point to where you added anything to this conversation resembling evidence, or even informed opinion? No?
Didn't think so.
No, I think you missed the point. The point is, all cultures have fringe elements. All cultures have those that justify their actions, no matter what they are. We have people killing abortion providers because they think God wants them to. The real difference between radical Islam and radical Christianity is usually desperation. The harder people get pushed, the more desperate they get, and the more radicalized they become.
Maybe you need a history lesson. Do you know who taught Osama bin Laden to kill people? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't other Muslims. It was the United States. He was a useful tool, and even a friend, when he was committing terrorist acts and ambush attacks against the Russians in Afghanistan. He was promised a good deal, promises then broken when he was no longer of use to us, and no longer politically viable to keep around. Betrayal almost never ends with everyone going about their merry way.
The same people who orchestrate these attacks, the same people who finance them, and make them possible, are often doing so with our training, and our money. We still pour millions of dollars into Afghanistan, which is becoming even more radicalized every day. We patronize the Saudis, Pakistan, and several other countries we know provide safe harbor for terrorists. So I'll ask you, why is it ok for us to use terrorists, fund and train them, and turn them loose on others, but then complain, and call them immature, if they turn on us?
Another thing, since Islamic culture has been around for nearly 15 HUNDRED years longer than American culture has, why on earth do you think WE are the mature ones? Because we only kill people when they are really bad? Because we can say with a straight face that there were only 15 instances of 'collateral damage' when we popped a missile into a building to kill a suspected terrorist? Maybe you can explain to me the difference, to the people on the ground, between a suicide bomber and a missile attack, both of which kill innocent bystanders?
Nice avoidance of the evidence too, by the way. You ignore the talk of killings, beatings, being assaulted, spit on, and several other things, only to divert attention by saying 'hate crimes covers a lot of ground'? Did you look at any of those reports? I'm guessing not, since I didn't spoon feed you the links. Try taking a look at the NYC report, and see what it says. Never mind, I know you won't. It might interrupt your fantasy world.
Way to miss the point entirely. What I said was, quite plainly, we weren't even targeting the right people. I don't know how many Muslims were dragged from their homes and killed, but I know at least 7 Sikhs were assaulted, a number of Hindus, and anyone of middle eastern descent.
A good many of those incidents were listed in the New York City Commission on Civil Rights report dated summer of 2003. A Ball State study released in September 2003, using FBI uniform crime reporting software data, found a 1600% increase in hate crimes directed to those thought to be of Muslim extraction. CNN reported on Sept. 16, 2001 that more than 300 reports of hate crimes had been received by the Council on American-Muslim Relations, ranging from being spit on to being physically assaulted at their homes or businesses.
Need me to go on? I can do this all day. Of course you could have too, it was pretty easy to look up after all, but its way easier to just act like I don't know what I'm talking about because it doesn't agree with your worldview.
Ok, let me just say... huh? What ad hominems or defamation did I get into? Maybe you can point that out, since you still haven't pointed out any of the laws I've allegedly broken, or ToS provisions I've broken.
And yet, after September 11, many Sikhs, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and who knows who else were attacked, killed, threatened in their homes. We aren't even smart enough to seek vengeance against the right people. If you think America is 'grown up' because no one gets killed when someone drops a cross in a vat of urine, you don't know a thing about America. Do you really believe that all Muslims approve of suicide bombings? Do you really believe all Muslims think people not of their faith must be destroyed? I have bad news for you, if that were true, we'd all already be dead.
The grown up countries, and grown up people, realize that there are extremists in any group or religion, that there will always be those that justify whatever actions they take as being the right ones, religiously speaking, and that find them perfectly moral. In fact, it's awfully rare to find a man who doesn't think every action he takes is justified by something, whether he's right or not.
So let me see if I understand this... By posting comments to a public board, I am violating your rights? Maybe you can explain that to me, or cite the relevant laws in your country that make speaking in your general direction illegal? I'm genuinely curious.
Oh, and no, I'm not lonely, I just didn't happen to be near anyone at the time. Thanks for the concern though.
To use one of your own responses, slap the handcuffs on me then. I can pretty much say whatever I like, regardless of your feelings, and no, it does not constitute 'verbal assault', or a violation of your personal space. If I stood hovering over you, that would be a violation of your personal space, but since no one is within several hundred feet of me at the moment, I can guarantee I am in no one's personal space. As to verbal assault, if I threatened you in some way, you might have some case, but I haven't. See, here's the thing. I have every right to freedom of speech, within the bounds of the rules set up for this private space, and unless I violate them, there isn't anything you can do. The proper thing to do, if you don't like what I'm saying, is to not listen, because while I have freedom of speech, I have no guaranteed right of an audience.
Actually they aren't. I've even been known to post about doctor's salaries and things like that. Oh, and I'm not talking to you, I'm posting on a board, and I can do that whenever I like, whether you like it or not. Have a nice day.