It happened to me on a college campus by a city officer. She said she heard complaints about some man in the studnet union building watching TV, and then demanded ID, so I said, "No I'll just leave the campus."
She said, "Just give me you damn ID." And I said, "No. I was invited today by a professor as an alumni.... nus. I didn't need an ID to enter this private campus, and I don't need one to leave." She then insisted I HAVE to hand-over an ID when a police officer asks. I replied "I'm not behind the wheel of a car, so no I don't have to show you my drivers' license."
She then trailed me all the way to my car, she tried to detain me and I said, "For what? My car was going 0 miles an hour so I wasn't speeding. I didn't drive through a red light, I haven't been drinking, and I didn't hit anybody. You have no cause to stop me from going home." She wrote down my license plate, and then I don't know what happened next since I drove off.
It's about time we stop cowering to police. THEY are the servants of the People not the other way roung. They get their paychecks out of our pockets & from our labor to earn that money. We should obey the police if we've broken the law, but not when they are demanding illegal searches or detainments w/o cause or warrant.
>>>I recently crossed several state borders without being stopped by police for papers. So no, we are not the USSR.
It all depends WHICH states and of course timing. A few years ago I was sightseeing the perimeter of this country. I had no problems in the north, no problems along the west coast, and no problems along the southern border until I decided to go see the Gulf of Mexico. On my way back the DHS pulled me over and demanded to search my car. No warrant. Just a demand. I refused. So they detained me for an hour in the hot summer sun, giving me a nice sunburn, and then finally said, "The judge refused to give us a warrant. You can go." And I'm not the only one..... there are lots of similar incidents documented, with video, on youtube. Including cases where people were drug from their car and beaten. There's no reason for the police to detain a tourist for an hour w/o cause. The Supreme Court has already ruled, again and again, that such detainments are a violation of the 4th amendment but the DHS and Executive Branch doesn't give a shit. ("The justices made their ruling. Now let's see them try to enforce it.")
The America of 2012 doesn't beat the America of 2100 if we wake-up and start demanding our rights be given back.
There's really no excuse for a college student to be fined almost a million dollars for downloading 30 songs. There's no excuse for a facebook customer to be arrested by the FBI and indefinitely detained w/o charges just because he exercised his right of free speech online (the SCOTUS has ruled even "I'm going to kill you" is protected speech in a ruling of a black man who was arrested during a civil rights protest). There's no excuse for an American citizen and his teenage child to be executed by the president w/o their guaranteed right to a trial before a jury of their peers. There's no excuse for why elderly women are being strip-searched by SA agents at airports. There's no excuse why other SA agents are putting mothers in glass jails because they are carrying bottled milk for their children. There's no excuse for SA agents to make large-breasted women walk through a nude body scanner 3 times and then joke about it: "Don't topple over!"
There's no excuse for why a pastor driving through California was pulled-over by DHS, ordered to get out of his car, had his windows smashed-in, and then beaten in the street. (The judge later acquited the pastor of all charges because he had done nothing wrong; did not have drugs; the dog had been kicked by the officer to make it bark.) (The judge also tried to prosecute the DHS agents too, but the president's administration has granted them immunity. Wonder why?) There's no excuse for why a man sitting in his home minding his own business suddenly has police ram down his door, and then shoot him dead. (Turns out they got the wrong house.) There's no excuse for why a granddaughter was shot and killed in a similar raid. There's no excuse for why a homeless man who was wittling wood & selling it on the street was told, "Drop your knife" and then shot a mere 1 second later.
There's no excuse for why a black mother had her child taken from her, because she refused to give the kid Ritalin medicine (the judge found her innocent as well & is pressing charges against the CPS). There's no excuse for why an environmentalist living in the Arizona and "off the grid" had his brand-new house condemnded & demolished and replaced with a shopping mall. There's no excuse for why a WW2 vet living alone and miding his own business had police break into his house & demand to see the basement. They found a garden there with grow lights, declared the grow lights illegal (they aren't), and then kicked the guy out of his home. Followed by demolishing it. Followed by another new mall.
I could go on and on for the next HOUR of your time. There's no excuse for Any of these things to occur in the U.S.A. and if they do occur, then the mistake should be reversed and the police prosecuted. In some cases it is, but in 99% of the cases the police have immunity from their crimes. So much for the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, or the protection of law from abuses of power by agents of the government.
>>>How dare you call their health choice "mutilation"?
If I remove my breasts myself, it's an elective choice and perfectly legal. If it's done by somebody who holds me down and carves up my breasts with a knife, the law calls it "mutilation" because it was an involuntary act.
We should not be cutting off little boy's penis tips or little girl's breast buds, and I don't care if doing so would prevent penile cancer or breast cancer. The decision should wait until they are old enough to make the decision as legal adults.
No I got the term right: "Female Circumcision" - National Center for Biotechnology. "Female genital mutilation (FGM), also known as female genital cutting and female circumcision....." - wikipedia.
On the other hand maybe instead of calling it "male circumcision" we should call it "male genital mutilation". As it is called with females.
The idea is sound in principle (government regulates corporations to keep them from being abusive). But in practice the government usually lets the corporations *write* the regulations so they regs end-up being favorable to corporations and/or allows them immunity when they abuse their power.
This revised patent law is one example. Another example is the recent U.S. Whistleblower regulation that requires employees who observe illegal activities to tell their boss (and then they get fired). So basically the corporations write the law to protect themselves from prosecution. This regulation was passed by a Democrat Congress and Democrat president.
>>>circumcision reduced the risk of infection with HIV..... a measure that can help prevent disease with very few side effects can and should be used to help stop disease
So you support cutting off penis tips because of the 0.01% who might get HIV if they are uncircumcized. Okay. Over their lifetime 5% of women will develop breast cancer..... that's a much higher rate than the 0.01% disease rate for HIV in men.
So let's cure that problem the same way we lop off penis tips. That's right. Lop off the breast buds for female infants, so they never need fear getting breast cancer. No more nipples == no more breast cancer. OH. I see a look of horror on your face. (I have that same look at the thought of lopping off penis endings.)
Females have the exact-same problems with their pussy as males. In fact I'd say it's worse. If she doesn't properly clean it, she might get urinary tract infection. Which can be a precursor to cervical cancer.
Oh and let's not forget breasts. 5% of women will develop breast cancer..... that's a much higher rate than the 0.01% of men that develop penal cancer.
So let's cure that problem that same way we lop off penis tips. That's right. Lop off the breast buds for female infants, so they never need fear getting breast cancer. Oh. I see a look of horror on your face. You should have that same look at the thought of mutilating little boys (as they scream in pain & blood spills on the hospital sheets).
>>>Circumcision is better long term for a person. Less risk of VD, other diseases, as well as fungus.
Let's bring back Female Circumcision too. Same reasons (healthier). What's that? You oppose Female Circumcision? Oh I see. You're against mutilating girls but boys is okay. I call that hypocritical.
>>>I disagree. please site specific study and flaw with methodology. Please prepared to defend that along with the mountains of other data. I have studied this, and IO will destroy you with actual science and facts. >>> Come here. I want to cut the lips off your baby daughter (female circumcision). Any objections? I have mounds of data to show that it's perfectly safe. What's that? You don't want you kid mutilated??? Well same applies to your boy you stupid "godhatesfags.com" Christian racist pig.
>>>Reduced infection rates in children and adults, and no strong evidence of sexual problems at all. It doesn't matter if you could stop infection through education on how to properly clean the penis. Hell, HIV could be stopped dead in a few generations if people stopped having sex with multiple partners and/or used condoms. But guess what? The world doesn't work like that, and a measure that can help prevent disease with very few side effects can and should be used to help stop disease. Hence, the recommendation.
I agree with your argument and say: - Let's bring back Female Circumcision too. Same reasons (healthier).
>>>my circumcised penis has been greeted with relief by a partner who found the natural look repulsive.
Interesting. If my "partner" said that my natural penis was repulsive, I would tell her that I'll circumcize my dick if she trims those ugly lips off her pussy (female circumcision). Fucking bitch. If the penis didn't need a foreskin, evolution would not have put it there.
For that matter why does God make his followers cut it off? Did God make a mistake when he put the foreskin on the male? Hmmm. But he's supposed to be flawless.
Let's bring back Female Circumcision too. Same reasons (healthier). What's that? You oppose FC? Oh I see. Hypocrite. You're against mutilating girls but boys is okay. How about we embrace equality of the sexes, instead of double standards.
And go tell your man-in-the-sky to go fuck himself.
>>>>>Congress mandates we all must drive hybrid cars? We all must install solar panels on our roofs? We all must buy CFLs or LED bulbs? Being forced to buy something you don't want to buy. >> >>No, but they can certainly subsidize those terrible, cleaner options.
No? Try "yes". According to the Supreme Court ruling, Congress has the power to mandate we buy any product of their choosing, and if we don't comply they can fine us through the IRS. And I don't agree CFLs are cleaner:
They create pollution when they are shipped from China. They create pollution when they are shipped back for recycling. They create pollution if they break open (mercury vapor). They waste energy when you have to open your house and let the vapor (and heat) escape outside. And they rarely last any longer than a normal incandescent bulb since their resistors/capacitors typically fail when exposed to the heat generated by the bulb.
Plus they are dim when you first turn them on (I have to wait 4 minutes until the light's bright enough to read my book). CFLs are a perfect example of a product that is actually worse than the one replaced.
Bill Nye is in a position to get laws passed that favor his viewpoint (teach children that Creationism is wrong & their parents are nutty twits, in the government schools). He's not a tyrant himself but he is friends with those who are tyrants in the CA Legislature and Congress.
As for why I'm "tired" of being bossed around? Mainly because I'm tired of people telling what to do. "Don't smoke weed". Really? Who the hell am I hurting if I'm just sitting here watching Star Trek and a cigarette in my mouth? If I am DUI then sure: Arrest me and throw me in jail with the alcohol drunks, but not when I'm just sitting at home not hurting anybody.
There are also other things that government forces you to do. Like give-up the password or encryption key on your hard drive. Force you to submit to car searches along highways (why? You don't have a warrant). Hold-up people at the TSA and demand to know why they are carrying $4000 in cash. And on and on.
That my friend is the opposite of liberty. It's tyranny.
>>>let the Religious Right get real power. That will show you tyrrany.
I find it funny you fear the religious right so much. It is the Media/Corporate-serving Left that has been causing most of the problems lately. Like shutting-down Megaupload. Arresting & prosecuting Jamie Thomas millions of dollars for downloading 30 songs. Passing or trying to pass laws like Protect IP, SOPA, and CISPA.
Forcing us to bail-out GM when it should have been left to die. Forcing us to provide Corporate Welfare for Solyndra and hundreds of other companies (most of which went bankrupt). Forcing 50 million uninsured Americans to buy product from the Insurance Megacorps (made their stock go up the very next day).
I see the religious nuts as annoying, but I don't have to fear they will arrest me under PIPA, fine me millions of dollars, or force me to provide bailouts/corporate welfare/buy a product which I don't want. All that shit is coming from the left.
No you don't understand. The new 2025 standards are an AVERAGE. That means cars like the Volvo will have to achive 75-80 mpg in order to offset the 35-40mpg SUVs, so that the overall fleet average will be 54.
The issue isn't whether a car can get 54mpg. That's easy. The issue is whether a car can get 75-80mpg to offset the gas guzzlers. That's the hard part. Only one carmaker has ever reached that high (Volkswagen with their Lupo 3L) and few people bought it because it was a rattletrap.
>>>there may be some market impediment to good mileage in cars in the US, but it ain't physics.
Well even physics places limits on what's possible. The highest-rated car (without cheating by drawing electricity from the grid) is the Lupo 3L at 88mpg highway. It was a very small car with a tiny ~60hp engine that took 18 seconds to do 0-to-60.
The next highest was the Honda Insight which rated 75mpg on the Euro test. Very few Lupos or Insight sold on the market (less than 25,000 units). Even in Europe where gas exceeds $5/gallon, nobody wants a car that acts like it can barely move.
It will be very difficult for carmakers to meet the CAFE standard without cheating (adding a plug and sucking energy from the electricgrid) (but not including that free energy in the MPG calculation).
>>>I suppose Volkswagen Jetta TDI's don't get over 50mpg. Oh wait, yes they do
Oh wait, no they don't smartass! Below are the EPA highway ratings for 2012 models using fueleconomy.gov (and yes the EPA rating is what the government is using to calculate CAFE.... it's the only relevant number in this whole discussion). 42mpg Jetta TDI 43mpg Passat TDI 41mpg Beetle TDI 48mpg Prius
I rest my case. My original comment that "You can't buy a car exceeding 54mpg highway in the U.S." still stands.
>>>Yes, there are cars sold in the US that get 54mpg highway
Show me. I want to buy a 2012 or 2013 model of one.
>>>My daughter's Honda is rated at 60mpg hwy
I don't believe you. The highest rated Honda I've seen since year 2000 is my 2-door Insight which is 65mpg and no longer for sale in the U.S. You cannot buy a 2012 or 13 version of it.
The next-highest was the Civic Hybrid at only 47mpg and the HX at 40mpg. Note that neither of these exceeds the 2025 mandate of 54 (just as I originally said).
>>>$20 translates into about 1400 miles of driving.
That's about 166 kWhr which means 119 watt-hours/mile. No EV in the world gets that kind of fuel economy. Typical average according to friends who own actual EVs are 500 watthours/mile. That would be $84 on my electric schedule.
>>>Well, for one thing, most power plants are a ways out of the city.
If only it were that simple. According to the EPA one of the reasons the east coast has such bad air is because of pollution floating-in from the midwest states. It doesn't matter where you locate your powerplant..... its output will stay suspended & drift for hundreds of miles.
And electricity really isn't any cheaper. Typical EV car burns 500 watts/mile according to my EV friends. So my commute is about 50 miles times 22 days == 1100 miles or 550 kWhr or $66 a month. (In contrast my insight gets 89MPG or 12.3 gallons or $43 dollars. Gas is cheaper than electric.)
>>>You state it's illegal to buy/sell those old cars like it applies everywhere.
No I didn't. AGAIN: This is a U.S. website and we are discussing an article about U.S. CAFE standards. My comment was about the U.S. and the LEV-2 standards that all 2013 cars must meet. Clear? That old 80s Civic might get great MPG but it would never pass LEV-2. It emits too much NOx pollution. (Just as the Beetle, Jetta, Gulf TDIs were pulled off the market in 2006 for emitting too much NOx.)
No you're going on a brain that is switched off. >>>exponentially increasing
And yet more proof you're not even trying to think logically. "Exponentially"??? Go look up the graph of the exponent function and realize how stupid you sound. Common Sense should tell you that the American population is not going to double to 640 million in a mere 13 years. BUT the CAFE standard will..... which means the average fuel economy for 2025 cars will Not be more than 2012 cars.
Slashdot Mirror
It happened to me on a college campus by a city officer. She said she heard complaints about some man in the studnet union building watching TV, and then demanded ID, so I said, "No I'll just leave the campus."
She said, "Just give me you damn ID." And I said, "No. I was invited today by a professor as an alumni.... nus. I didn't need an ID to enter this private campus, and I don't need one to leave." She then insisted I HAVE to hand-over an ID when a police officer asks. I replied "I'm not behind the wheel of a car, so no I don't have to show you my drivers' license."
She then trailed me all the way to my car, she tried to detain me and I said, "For what? My car was going 0 miles an hour so I wasn't speeding. I didn't drive through a red light, I haven't been drinking, and I didn't hit anybody. You have no cause to stop me from going home." She wrote down my license plate, and then I don't know what happened next since I drove off.
It's about time we stop cowering to police. THEY are the servants of the People not the other way roung. They get their paychecks out of our pockets & from our labor to earn that money. We should obey the police if we've broken the law, but not when they are demanding illegal searches or detainments w/o cause or warrant.
>>>I recently crossed several state borders without being stopped by police for papers. So no, we are not the USSR.
It all depends WHICH states and of course timing. A few years ago I was sightseeing the perimeter of this country. I had no problems in the north, no problems along the west coast, and no problems along the southern border until I decided to go see the Gulf of Mexico. On my way back the DHS pulled me over and demanded to search my car. No warrant. Just a demand. I refused. So they detained me for an hour in the hot summer sun, giving me a nice sunburn, and then finally said, "The judge refused to give us a warrant. You can go." And I'm not the only one..... there are lots of similar incidents documented, with video, on youtube. Including cases where people were drug from their car and beaten. There's no reason for the police to detain a tourist for an hour w/o cause. The Supreme Court has already ruled, again and again, that such detainments are a violation of the 4th amendment but the DHS and Executive Branch doesn't give a shit. ("The justices made their ruling. Now let's see them try to enforce it.")
The America of 2012 doesn't beat the America of 2100 if we wake-up and start demanding our rights be given back.
There's really no excuse for a college student to be fined almost a million dollars for downloading 30 songs. There's no excuse for a facebook customer to be arrested by the FBI and indefinitely detained w/o charges just because he exercised his right of free speech online (the SCOTUS has ruled even "I'm going to kill you" is protected speech in a ruling of a black man who was arrested during a civil rights protest). There's no excuse for an American citizen and his teenage child to be executed by the president w/o their guaranteed right to a trial before a jury of their peers. There's no excuse for why elderly women are being strip-searched by SA agents at airports. There's no excuse why other SA agents are putting mothers in glass jails because they are carrying bottled milk for their children. There's no excuse for SA agents to make large-breasted women walk through a nude body scanner 3 times and then joke about it: "Don't topple over!"
There's no excuse for why a pastor driving through California was pulled-over by DHS, ordered to get out of his car, had his windows smashed-in, and then beaten in the street. (The judge later acquited the pastor of all charges because he had done nothing wrong; did not have drugs; the dog had been kicked by the officer to make it bark.) (The judge also tried to prosecute the DHS agents too, but the president's administration has granted them immunity. Wonder why?) There's no excuse for why a man sitting in his home minding his own business suddenly has police ram down his door, and then shoot him dead. (Turns out they got the wrong house.) There's no excuse for why a granddaughter was shot and killed in a similar raid. There's no excuse for why a homeless man who was wittling wood & selling it on the street was told, "Drop your knife" and then shot a mere 1 second later.
There's no excuse for why a black mother had her child taken from her, because she refused to give the kid Ritalin medicine (the judge found her innocent as well & is pressing charges against the CPS). There's no excuse for why an environmentalist living in the Arizona and "off the grid" had his brand-new house condemnded & demolished and replaced with a shopping mall. There's no excuse for why a WW2 vet living alone and miding his own business had police break into his house & demand to see the basement. They found a garden there with grow lights, declared the grow lights illegal (they aren't), and then kicked the guy out of his home. Followed by demolishing it. Followed by another new mall.
I could go on and on for the next HOUR of your time. There's no excuse for Any of these things to occur in the U.S.A. and if they do occur, then the mistake should be reversed and the police prosecuted. In some cases it is, but in 99% of the cases the police have immunity from their crimes. So much for the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, or the protection of law from abuses of power by agents of the government.
>>>How dare you call their health choice "mutilation"?
If I remove my breasts myself, it's an elective choice and perfectly legal. If it's done by somebody who holds me down and carves up my breasts with a knife, the law calls it "mutilation" because it was an involuntary act.
We should not be cutting off little boy's penis tips or little girl's breast buds, and I don't care if doing so would prevent penile cancer or breast cancer. The decision should wait until they are old enough to make the decision as legal adults.
No I got the term right: "Female Circumcision" - National Center for Biotechnology. "Female genital mutilation (FGM), also known as female genital cutting and female circumcision....." - wikipedia.
On the other hand maybe instead of calling it "male circumcision" we should call it "male genital mutilation". As it is called with females.
The idea is sound in principle (government regulates corporations to keep them from being abusive). But in practice the government usually lets the corporations *write* the regulations so they regs end-up being favorable to corporations and/or allows them immunity when they abuse their power.
This revised patent law is one example. Another example is the recent U.S. Whistleblower regulation that requires employees who observe illegal activities to tell their boss (and then they get fired). So basically the corporations write the law to protect themselves from prosecution. This regulation was passed by a Democrat Congress and Democrat president.
>>>circumcision reduced the risk of infection with HIV..... a measure that can help prevent disease with very few side effects can and should be used to help stop disease
So you support cutting off penis tips because of the 0.01% who might get HIV if they are uncircumcized. Okay. Over their lifetime 5% of women will develop breast cancer..... that's a much higher rate than the 0.01% disease rate for HIV in men.
So let's cure that problem the same way we lop off penis tips. That's right. Lop off the breast buds for female infants, so they never need fear getting breast cancer. No more nipples == no more breast cancer. OH. I see a look of horror on your face. (I have that same look at the thought of lopping off penis endings.)
Females have the exact-same problems with their pussy as males. In fact I'd say it's worse. If she doesn't properly clean it, she might get urinary tract infection. Which can be a precursor to cervical cancer.
Oh and let's not forget breasts. 5% of women will develop breast cancer..... that's a much higher rate than the 0.01% of men that develop penal cancer.
So let's cure that problem that same way we lop off penis tips. That's right. Lop off the breast buds for female infants, so they never need fear getting breast cancer. Oh. I see a look of horror on your face. You should have that same look at the thought of mutilating little boys (as they scream in pain & blood spills on the hospital sheets).
>>>Circumcision is better long term for a person. Less risk of VD, other diseases, as well as fungus.
Let's bring back Female Circumcision too.
Same reasons (healthier).
What's that? You oppose Female Circumcision? Oh I see. You're against mutilating girls but boys is okay. I call that hypocritical.
>>>I disagree. please site specific study and flaw with methodology. Please prepared to defend that along with the mountains of other data. I have studied this, and IO will destroy you with actual science and facts.
>>>
Come here. I want to cut the lips off your baby daughter (female circumcision). Any objections? I have mounds of data to show that it's perfectly safe. What's that? You don't want you kid mutilated??? Well same applies to your boy you stupid "godhatesfags.com" Christian racist pig.
>>>Reduced infection rates in children and adults, and no strong evidence of sexual problems at all. It doesn't matter if you could stop infection through education on how to properly clean the penis. Hell, HIV could be stopped dead in a few generations if people stopped having sex with multiple partners and/or used condoms. But guess what? The world doesn't work like that, and a measure that can help prevent disease with very few side effects can and should be used to help stop disease. Hence, the recommendation.
I agree with your argument and say:
- Let's bring back Female Circumcision too.
Same reasons (healthier).
*
*He's being sarcastic.
>>>Later in life circumcision leads to abnormal masturbation
Define please.
>>>my circumcised penis has been greeted with relief by a partner who found the natural look repulsive.
Interesting. If my "partner" said that my natural penis was repulsive, I would tell her that I'll circumcize my dick if she trims those ugly lips off her pussy (female circumcision). Fucking bitch. If the penis didn't need a foreskin, evolution would not have put it there.
For that matter why does God make his followers cut it off? Did God make a mistake when he put the foreskin on the male? Hmmm. But he's supposed to be flawless.
Let's bring back Female Circumcision too.
Same reasons (healthier).
What's that? You oppose FC? Oh I see. Hypocrite. You're against mutilating girls but boys is okay. How about we embrace equality of the sexes, instead of double standards.
And go tell your man-in-the-sky to go fuck himself.
>>>>>Congress mandates we all must drive hybrid cars? We all must install solar panels on our roofs? We all must buy CFLs or LED bulbs? Being forced to buy something you don't want to buy.
>>
>>No, but they can certainly subsidize those terrible, cleaner options.
No? Try "yes". According to the Supreme Court ruling, Congress has the power to mandate we buy any product of their choosing, and if we don't comply they can fine us through the IRS. And I don't agree CFLs are cleaner:
They create pollution when they are shipped from China. They create pollution when they are shipped back for recycling. They create pollution if they break open (mercury vapor). They waste energy when you have to open your house and let the vapor (and heat) escape outside. And they rarely last any longer than a normal incandescent bulb since their resistors/capacitors typically fail when exposed to the heat generated by the bulb.
Plus they are dim when you first turn them on (I have to wait 4 minutes until the light's bright enough to read my book). CFLs are a perfect example of a product that is actually worse than the one replaced.
Bill Nye is in a position to get laws passed that favor his viewpoint (teach children that Creationism is wrong & their parents are nutty twits, in the government schools). He's not a tyrant himself but he is friends with those who are tyrants in the CA Legislature and Congress.
As for why I'm "tired" of being bossed around? Mainly because I'm tired of people telling what to do. "Don't smoke weed". Really? Who the hell am I hurting if I'm just sitting here watching Star Trek and a cigarette in my mouth? If I am DUI then sure: Arrest me and throw me in jail with the alcohol drunks, but not when I'm just sitting at home not hurting anybody.
There are also other things that government forces you to do. Like give-up the password or encryption key on your hard drive. Force you to submit to car searches along highways (why? You don't have a warrant). Hold-up people at the TSA and demand to know why they are carrying $4000 in cash. And on and on.
That my friend is the opposite of liberty. It's tyranny.
>>>let the Religious Right get real power. That will show you tyrrany.
I find it funny you fear the religious right so much. It is the Media/Corporate-serving Left that has been causing most of the problems lately. Like shutting-down Megaupload. Arresting & prosecuting Jamie Thomas millions of dollars for downloading 30 songs. Passing or trying to pass laws like Protect IP, SOPA, and CISPA.
Forcing us to bail-out GM when it should have been left to die. Forcing us to provide Corporate Welfare for Solyndra and hundreds of other companies (most of which went bankrupt). Forcing 50 million uninsured Americans to buy product from the Insurance Megacorps (made their stock go up the very next day).
I see the religious nuts as annoying, but I don't have to fear they will arrest me under PIPA, fine me millions of dollars, or force me to provide bailouts/corporate welfare/buy a product which I don't want. All that shit is coming from the left.
No you don't understand. The new 2025 standards are an AVERAGE. That means cars like the Volvo will have to achive 75-80 mpg in order to offset the 35-40mpg SUVs, so that the overall fleet average will be 54.
The issue isn't whether a car can get 54mpg. That's easy. The issue is whether a car can get 75-80mpg to offset the gas guzzlers. That's the hard part. Only one carmaker has ever reached that high (Volkswagen with their Lupo 3L) and few people bought it because it was a rattletrap.
>>>there may be some market impediment to good mileage in cars in the US, but it ain't physics.
Well even physics places limits on what's possible. The highest-rated car (without cheating by drawing electricity from the grid) is the Lupo 3L at 88mpg highway. It was a very small car with a tiny ~60hp engine that took 18 seconds to do 0-to-60.
The next highest was the Honda Insight which rated 75mpg on the Euro test. Very few Lupos or Insight sold on the market (less than 25,000 units). Even in Europe where gas exceeds $5/gallon, nobody wants a car that acts like it can barely move.
It will be very difficult for carmakers to meet the CAFE standard without cheating (adding a plug and sucking energy from the electricgrid) (but not including that free energy in the MPG calculation).
>>>I suppose Volkswagen Jetta TDI's don't get over 50mpg. Oh wait, yes they do
Oh wait, no they don't smartass! Below are the EPA highway ratings for 2012 models using fueleconomy.gov (and yes the EPA rating is what the government is using to calculate CAFE.... it's the only relevant number in this whole discussion).
42mpg Jetta TDI
43mpg Passat TDI
41mpg Beetle TDI
48mpg Prius
I rest my case. My original comment that "You can't buy a car exceeding 54mpg highway in the U.S." still stands.
>>>Yes, there are cars sold in the US that get 54mpg highway
Show me. I want to buy a 2012 or 2013 model of one.
>>>My daughter's Honda is rated at 60mpg hwy
I don't believe you. The highest rated Honda I've seen since year 2000 is my 2-door Insight which is 65mpg and no longer for sale in the U.S. You cannot buy a 2012 or 13 version of it.
The next-highest was the Civic Hybrid at only 47mpg and the HX at 40mpg. Note that neither of these exceeds the 2025 mandate of 54 (just as I originally said).
>>>$20 translates into about 1400 miles of driving.
That's about 166 kWhr which means 119 watt-hours/mile. No EV in the world gets that kind of fuel economy. Typical average according to friends who own actual EVs are 500 watthours/mile. That would be $84 on my electric schedule.
>>>Well, for one thing, most power plants are a ways out of the city.
If only it were that simple. According to the EPA one of the reasons the east coast has such bad air is because of pollution floating-in from the midwest states. It doesn't matter where you locate your powerplant..... its output will stay suspended & drift for hundreds of miles.
And electricity really isn't any cheaper. Typical EV car burns 500 watts/mile according to my EV friends. So my commute is about 50 miles times 22 days == 1100 miles or 550 kWhr or $66 a month. (In contrast my insight gets 89MPG or 12.3 gallons or $43 dollars. Gas is cheaper than electric.)
>>>You state it's illegal to buy/sell those old cars like it applies everywhere.
No I didn't. AGAIN: This is a U.S. website and we are discussing an article about U.S. CAFE standards. My comment was about the U.S. and the LEV-2 standards that all 2013 cars must meet. Clear? That old 80s Civic might get great MPG but it would never pass LEV-2. It emits too much NOx pollution. (Just as the Beetle, Jetta, Gulf TDIs were pulled off the market in 2006 for emitting too much NOx.)
>>>I'm only going on historical practice...
No you're going on a brain that is switched off.
>>>exponentially increasing
And yet more proof you're not even trying to think logically. "Exponentially"??? Go look up the graph of the exponent function and realize how stupid you sound. Common Sense should tell you that the American population is not going to double to 640 million in a mere 13 years. BUT the CAFE standard will..... which means the average fuel economy for 2025 cars will Not be more than 2012 cars.