In a recent court case a woman setup her personal cellphone to receive company email. That worked great until she quit the company, and they demanded the right to scan her phone, and ensure she had not stolen any proprietary information via the email account. The court sided with the company.
>>>pushed forward primarily by a corporate alliance composed of big for-profit players..... HTML5 is essentially Adobe and Microsoft's retaliation to W3C XHTML 1.0/1.1.
And now the Alex Jones Show will take a commercial break.
>>>superior solutions for the iPhone/iPad like AirVideo that isn't swamped in petty GPL politics
Politics?
Also can AirVideo playback audio/video at varying speeds like VLC could? On Windows you can use a 2xAV plugin for WMP, but for Apple Pad/pod I don't know if that's possible.
I couldn't give a shit if it's patented. VHS was patented. Ditto CD and DVD and LaserDisc and 3.5" floppies, but I made out just fine. They didn't stop me from enjoying entertainment, and neither will the use of MPEG4 in radio,TVs,blurays,et cetera.
Besides: WebM is inferior. MPEG4 can create VHS-quality video at cellphone speeds, and FM-quality at 90s dialup speeds (14 kbit/s). WebM doesn't even come close..... like dropping down from 1080p to 720p. I think it's a bad move.
I just don't see any compelling reason to switch to a new codec when every iPod, iPad, iGadget, TV I own already uses MPEG4's H264. It makes as little sense to me as deciding to move from MP3 to Snogg Vorbis. I'd rather just stick with the current standard.
Oh and yes Firefox, Opera, et cetera support MPEG4 video, via the Flash support.
>>>This clearly is an interesting experiment in competition, which will have more support? Google or MS?
I like the nonprofit MPEG group. - They've done a lot of good work these last 25 years (MPEG1, MPEG2, MP3, JPEG, MPEG4, AAC, HE-AAC), and I don't see any reason to stop using their specifications. I especially love those most-recent specs which let me send video to my friend who's stuck on dialup, or listen to FM-quality radio at only 14kbit/s.
Europe, Japan, Australia all embraced AM Stereo, set a single standard, and it boomed throughout the 80s and 90s. Meanwhile in the USA it flopped because consumers were confused which of 3 AMS codecs to purchase. It died.
>>>>>Explorer 5. That's what I run on my Mac G4 (400 Mhz). Yeah it sucks. But I can't run any of the currently-supported OSes like 10.4 or 10.5, due to Apple restrictions. So I can't use Safari as an alternative. >> >>I seriously suggest you try running Chrome 9, Firefox 4 or IE9 under Win7, on a P2-400 with 512MB RAM
Windows 7 works fine. Windows XP also works fine, and WILL run Firefox 4 or Chrome 9. See Microsoft (and others) support machines as old as my Mac G4. Why can't Apple??? Heck they don't even support four-year-old machines.
Performance at lower bitrates is academic at best.
Not if you're on dialup or a cellphone. You want the lowest bitrate possible while still keeping good quality. For example the radio station I listen to at work streams at a mere 12kbit/s HEAAC and sounds... well not great but close to FM quality. Vorbis sounds like it was squeezed through a shortwave radio.
"Vorbis beats all comers in the 80-96kbps range"
It doesn't beat HE-AAC (AACplus) which still has better sound on the high frequencies.
Yes. Your point? My desire not to go-out and spend several hundred dollars upgrading to WebM-capable iGadgets sounds like a damn good reason to me. Can you persuade me why I am wrong? No. You cannot.
>>>When technologies are legally encumbered,
Only for a few more years, and then MPEG4's h264 falls into public domain and becomes as "open" as webM. I'd rather just wait.
That's what I run on my Mac G4 (400 Mhz). Yeah it sucks. But I can't run any of the currently-supported OSes like 10.4 or 10.5, due to Apple restrictions. So I can't use Safari as an alternative.
Standards are no good when there are barriers that prevent some folks from implementing them
A barrier that is self-imposed is not a barrier. Refusal by Google & Opera to pay MPEG's 10 cent/browser license fee is equivalent to me saying, "I am barred from watching SyFy Channel, because I have to pay the $60 fee to access it." - That is not a barrier; that is a self-inflicted wound because I'm a cheapass.
"Competition in standards isn't such a great thing."
That's true. Look at the mess that was AM Stereo - there were three competing standards in the US, and the consumers were left confused. Eventually AM Stereo died out since consumers were afraid of picking the wrong standard (as happened with Betamax and HDdvd) and being left with a junk radio. ----- Meanwhile in other parts of the world AM Stereo became very successful because their Governments chose ONE standard, and consumers quickly adopted it.
And why should I care? What compelling reason do I, a user (or "luser" in some IT depts), have to switch to WebM that my iPod, iTV, and other gadgets can not play? What motive do I have to go=out and spend a few hundred dollars buying NEW gadgets with WebM inside them?
Nothing occurs to me. Hence I'll keep using the MPEG4/h264 that is already built-into my devices.
You can't afford an extra 10 cents per device or browser? I'm sorry. Here let me help you out. (Searches yellowpages for welfare office.) No on second thought: Here's a dime. That's certainly cheaper than me having to go buy a new WebM-compatible iPod for ~10,000 cents.
BESIDES the licensing fees will disappear very soon. MPEG1/2/JPEG are already public domain if I recall correctly, and MPEG4/H264 will soon be an open standard too. I'm happy to keep using MPEG's products just as I'm happy to keep buying Hondas and VWs.
I'm sticking with MPEG. I could care less about WebM or Orbis or other codecs my iGadgets can't play.
I just don't see any compelling reason to switch to a new codec when everything I own already uses MPEG4's H264. It makes as little sense to me as deciding to move from MP3 to Snogg Vorbis. I'd rather just stick with the current standard.
Oh and yes Firefox, Opera, et cetera support MPEG4 video, via the Flash support.
I like the MPEG group.
- They've done a lot of good work these last 25 years (MPEG1, MPEG2, MP3, JPEG, MPEG4, AAC, HE-AAC), and I don't see any reason to stop using their specifications. I especially love those most-recent specs which let me send video to my friend who's stuck on dialup, or listen to FM-quality radio at only 14kbit/s. As for microsoft or google, I could care less.
But seriously: I just don't see any compelling reason to switch to a new codec when everything I own already uses MPEG4's H264. It makes as little sense to me as deciding to move from Bluray to HD-DVD. Or VHS to Betamax. Or MP3 to Snogg Vorbis.
I'd rather just stick with the current standard. Oh and yes Firefox, Opera, et cetera support MPEG4 video, via the Flash support.
Not even close to accurate. According to arstechnica research, in 1989 the number one selling computer was still the Commodore 64 (with GEOS and mouse bundled) thanks to its low $100 pricepoint. Most people using mice in that year were C64 users. Amiga 500/2000 was second, Atari ST a distant third, and Mac was barely used at all (still had poor sales, since $3000 was still too high for average people).
So I still give credit for the mouse popularization to the Commodore - best selling computer ever made.
IHMO the faster the wireless internet becomes congested, the better it will be for society, because we'll wake-up and realize that a WIRED internet is the only practical solution. Wireless is a nice addon, but not a replacement, as the US-FCC falsely believes. There's simply not enough spectrum to handle all 330 million americans having wireless internet (solely).
I couldn't give a shit if it's patented. VHS was patented. Ditto CD and DVD and LaserDisc and 3.5" floppies, but I made out just fine. They didn't stop me from enjoying entertainment, and neither will the use of MPEG4 in radio,TVs,blurays,et cetera.
Besides: MPEG4 won't be patented forever. It's only 10 years away from being public domain (like webM). All it requires is some fucking patience. And finally: WebM is inferior. MPEG4 can create VHS-quality video at dialup speeds, and FM-quality at just 14 kbit/s. WebM doesn't even come close..... switching from H264/mpeg4 to WebM is like dropping down from 1080p to 720p. I think it's a bad move.
Especially now that they switched to Lucid as their base and can run the same programs as Ubuntu uses. Other cool free/liberated/open apps: VLC Media Player Firefox SeaMonkey (firefox/thunderbird/chatzilla/composer merged) jEdit WinAmp (like the built-in AACplusSBR support)
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>>>not if it's YOUR property that YOU pay for.
In a recent court case a woman setup her personal cellphone to receive company email. That worked great until she quit the company, and they demanded the right to scan her phone, and ensure she had not stolen any proprietary information via the email account. The court sided with the company.
>>>pushed forward primarily by a corporate alliance composed of big for-profit players..... HTML5 is essentially Adobe and Microsoft's retaliation to W3C XHTML 1.0/1.1.
And now the Alex Jones Show will take a commercial break.
>>>superior solutions for the iPhone/iPad like AirVideo that isn't swamped in petty GPL politics
Politics?
Also can AirVideo playback audio/video at varying speeds like VLC could? On Windows you can use a 2xAV plugin for WMP, but for Apple Pad/pod I don't know if that's possible.
>>>you're SUPPORT staff - your job solely consists of helping me do mine.
Wow what an ass. Do you treat janitors equally as bad? Or cooks? Bet they spit in your food.
>>>100% patent encumbered codec instead?
I couldn't give a shit if it's patented. VHS was patented. Ditto CD and DVD and LaserDisc and 3.5" floppies, but I made out just fine. They didn't stop me from enjoying entertainment, and neither will the use of MPEG4 in radio,TVs,blurays,et cetera.
Besides: WebM is inferior. MPEG4 can create VHS-quality video at cellphone speeds, and FM-quality at 90s dialup speeds (14 kbit/s). WebM doesn't even come close..... like dropping down from 1080p to 720p. I think it's a bad move.
P.S.
I just don't see any compelling reason to switch to a new codec when every iPod, iPad, iGadget, TV I own already uses MPEG4's H264. It makes as little sense to me as deciding to move from MP3 to Snogg Vorbis. I'd rather just stick with the current standard.
Oh and yes Firefox, Opera, et cetera support MPEG4 video, via the Flash support.
>>>This clearly is an interesting experiment in competition, which will have more support? Google or MS?
I like the nonprofit MPEG group. - They've done a lot of good work these last 25 years (MPEG1, MPEG2, MP3, JPEG, MPEG4, AAC, HE-AAC), and I don't see any reason to stop using their specifications. I especially love those most-recent specs which let me send video to my friend who's stuck on dialup, or listen to FM-quality radio at only 14kbit/s.
As for microsoft or google, I could care less.
Europe, Japan, Australia all embraced AM Stereo, set a single standard, and it boomed throughout the 80s and 90s. Meanwhile in the USA it flopped because consumers were confused which of 3 AMS codecs to purchase. It died.
>>>You have to get on your knees and beg permission (and pay) to implement H.264.
False, false, false.
The non-profit MPEG gives their codecs away
for free to anyone earning less than $500,000.
I don't have to pay.
>>>>>Explorer 5. That's what I run on my Mac G4 (400 Mhz). Yeah it sucks. But I can't run any of the currently-supported OSes like 10.4 or 10.5, due to Apple restrictions. So I can't use Safari as an alternative.
>>
>>I seriously suggest you try running Chrome 9, Firefox 4 or IE9 under Win7, on a P2-400 with 512MB RAM
Windows 7 works fine.
Windows XP also works fine, and WILL run Firefox 4 or Chrome 9.
See Microsoft (and others) support machines as old as my Mac G4.
Why can't Apple??? Heck they don't even support four-year-old machines.
Performance at lower bitrates is academic at best.
Not if you're on dialup or a cellphone. You want the lowest bitrate possible while still keeping good quality. For example the radio station I listen to at work streams at a mere 12kbit/s HEAAC and sounds... well not great but close to FM quality. Vorbis sounds like it was squeezed through a shortwave radio.
"Vorbis beats all comers in the 80-96kbps range"
It doesn't beat HE-AAC (AACplus) which still has better sound on the high frequencies.
>>>beyond your own immediate interests
Yes.
Your point? My desire not to go-out and spend several hundred dollars upgrading to WebM-capable iGadgets sounds like a damn good reason to me. Can you persuade me why I am wrong? No. You cannot.
>>>When technologies are legally encumbered,
Only for a few more years, and then MPEG4's h264 falls into public domain and becomes as "open" as webM. I'd rather just wait.
Explorer 5
That's what I run on my Mac G4 (400 Mhz). Yeah it sucks. But I can't run any of the currently-supported OSes like 10.4 or 10.5, due to Apple restrictions. So I can't use Safari as an alternative.
Standards are no good when there are barriers that prevent some folks from implementing them
A barrier that is self-imposed is not a barrier. Refusal by Google & Opera to pay MPEG's 10 cent/browser license fee is equivalent to me saying, "I am barred from watching SyFy Channel, because I have to pay the $60 fee to access it." - That is not a barrier; that is a self-inflicted wound because I'm a cheapass.
"Competition in standards isn't such a great thing."
That's true. Look at the mess that was AM Stereo - there were three competing standards in the US, and the consumers were left confused. Eventually AM Stereo died out since consumers were afraid of picking the wrong standard (as happened with Betamax and HDdvd) and being left with a junk radio. ----- Meanwhile in other parts of the world AM Stereo became very successful because their Governments chose ONE standard, and consumers quickly adopted it.
>>>H264 is blatantly patent encumbered,
And why should I care? What compelling reason do I, a user (or "luser" in some IT depts), have to switch to WebM that my iPod, iTV, and other gadgets can not play? What motive do I have to go=out and spend a few hundred dollars buying NEW gadgets with WebM inside them?
Nothing occurs to me. Hence I'll keep using the MPEG4/h264 that is already built-into my devices.
You can't afford an extra 10 cents per device or browser? I'm sorry. Here let me help you out. (Searches yellowpages for welfare office.) No on second thought: Here's a dime. That's certainly cheaper than me having to go buy a new WebM-compatible iPod for ~10,000 cents.
BESIDES the licensing fees will disappear very soon. MPEG1/2/JPEG are already public domain if I recall correctly, and MPEG4/H264 will soon be an open standard too. I'm happy to keep using MPEG's products just as I'm happy to keep buying Hondas and VWs.
I'm sticking with MPEG. I could care less about WebM or Orbis or other codecs my iGadgets can't play.
P.S.
I just don't see any compelling reason to switch to a new codec when everything I own already uses MPEG4's H264. It makes as little sense to me as deciding to move from MP3 to Snogg Vorbis. I'd rather just stick with the current standard.
Oh and yes Firefox, Opera, et cetera support MPEG4 video, via the Flash support.
Youtube may switch to WebM, but it still supports flash doesn't it? So Microsoft Explorer and Apple Safari users won't notice any difference at all.
I like the MPEG group.
- They've done a lot of good work these last 25 years (MPEG1, MPEG2, MP3, JPEG, MPEG4, AAC, HE-AAC), and I don't see any reason to stop using their specifications. I especially love those most-recent specs which let me send video to my friend who's stuck on dialup, or listen to FM-quality radio at only 14kbit/s. As for microsoft or google, I could care less.
(crawls into corner and whimpers).
But seriously: I just don't see any compelling reason to switch to a new codec when everything I own already uses MPEG4's H264. It makes as little sense to me as deciding to move from Bluray to HD-DVD. Or VHS to Betamax. Or MP3 to Snogg Vorbis.
I'd rather just stick with the current standard. Oh and yes Firefox, Opera, et cetera support MPEG4 video, via the Flash support.
Not even close to accurate.
According to arstechnica research, in 1989 the number one selling computer was still the Commodore 64 (with GEOS and mouse bundled) thanks to its low $100 pricepoint. Most people using mice in that year were C64 users. Amiga 500/2000 was second, Atari ST a distant third, and Mac was barely used at all (still had poor sales, since $3000 was still too high for average people).
So I still give credit for the mouse popularization to the Commodore - best selling computer ever made.
IHMO the faster the wireless internet becomes congested, the better it will be for society, because we'll wake-up and realize that a WIRED internet is the only practical solution. Wireless is a nice addon, but not a replacement, as the US-FCC falsely believes. There's simply not enough spectrum to handle all 330 million americans having wireless internet (solely).
>>>100% patent encumbered codec instead?
I couldn't give a shit if it's patented. VHS was patented. Ditto CD and DVD and LaserDisc and 3.5" floppies, but I made out just fine. They didn't stop me from enjoying entertainment, and neither will the use of MPEG4 in radio,TVs,blurays,et cetera.
Besides: MPEG4 won't be patented forever. It's only 10 years away from being public domain (like webM). All it requires is some fucking patience. And finally: WebM is inferior. MPEG4 can create VHS-quality video at dialup speeds, and FM-quality at just 14 kbit/s. WebM doesn't even come close..... switching from H264/mpeg4 to WebM is like dropping down from 1080p to 720p.
I think it's a bad move.
Especially now that they switched to Lucid as their base and can run the same programs as Ubuntu uses. Other cool free/liberated/open apps:
VLC Media Player
Firefox
SeaMonkey (firefox/thunderbird/chatzilla/composer merged)
jEdit
WinAmp (like the built-in AACplusSBR support)