Good point. I was trying to draw a distinction between Microsoft Windows Administration and Linux Administration.
My point is that to make a Linux box maintenance free takes a person with savvy (ie more expensive to hire) while to make a MS Windows Server maintenance free takes a monkey (ie I can use MS Word, therefore I can administer a Windows Server).
I guess the point I am driving is that in the small business world (as opposed to corporate) where people have a 1-5 servers, the technical expertise to maintain the servers can be drasticly different.
Case in point, would you let a minimum-rage employee from BestBuy or CompUSA even near a Linux server? The flip side is that they support and service Windows servers.... Ergo, most times the BB of CompUSA geeks will be less expensive than someone who knows/understands Linux. In this case, competence = money.
However - this is only my take on training and competence to work with Linux vs Windows....
I STILL think, and no one can convince me otherwise, that Linux should be the server of choice. Speed, Reliability, lack of a BSoD (blue screen of death), and the ability to make it do what I want it to do, and not what Microsoft tells me is should do.
I disagree. Before you flame me - think about this...
Most small businesses have an external consulting firm setup their Windows servers and install them. Then the internal sysadmin just has to sit there and watch funny graphs and what not - but not really to think.
There are also Windows SysAdmins who know what they are doing. However, IMHO, only about 25% of all Windows SysAdmins really have a handle on what is going on...
For companies that use Linux, usually the internal sysadmins are more savvy and purchase and setup their own servers.
Now the comparison:
Windows SysAdmin who just sits there and monitors the server - prob $35-40k
Windows SysAdmin who takes an active role in their network (and knows what they are doing) - prob $50k and up
Linux SysAdmin (there is no distinction between a moron Linux Admin and a good Linux Admin... you have to admin, if you use/admin Linux you learn and become more savvy) - prob $50k and up...
In general - Windows staffing will be cheaper, if only because Windows is easier and shinier than Linux.
What I'm saying is that as a hosting provider (NOT an ISP) we provide POP3 and SMTP for our users. We run the mail server on an IP Block assigned to us via a UUNet business T1 and the IP's correctly registered via ARIN.
However, when ISPs that our clients use decide to block port 25 traffic, then our clients need to use the ISP's outbound SMTP server. No big deal - just a pain to deal with.
When ISPs block port 110 for POP3...well that's usually when the client throws their hands in the air, spouts some rather unprintable words and either leaves the ISP or our hosting services. Trust me - it came as a great shock when a MSN Tech Support rep told me flat out that MSN doesn't allow POP3/SMTP traffic anymore. That FLOORED me! Didn't help that I was trying to help a small business client who could BARELY afford webhosting and was using the free MSN trial with their new Dell computer...
But, how can a small hosting company offer services when the large ISP blocks those same services in the name of security?
For those who say 'Move the ports so they are on non-standard ports' - how does that help your generic John & Jane Doe users who think that when you say 'the Internet' that you mean that globe icon on the Windows desktop?
The bigger problem is when ISP's block port 25 to my servers. As you mentioned - we're a hosting provider and not an ISP.
Our customers rely upon us for SMTP/POP3. When ISP's kill outbound 25 - it makes it difficult.............however, when MSN decides that they will ONLY allow HTTP traffic on their network, and block ALL POP3/SMTP traffic - that makes it impossible to compete doesn't it?
I probably shouldn't complain for your very point. However - when we get complaints that our customers emailboxes are jammed full of 'Viagra' and 'Wanna see my webcam' email messages - you have to do SOMETHING! We've tried SpamAssassin - that didn't get everything. We've tried SpamCop - that doesn't get everything. The combination seems to work fairly well.
Perhaps it's easier for the big guys (ComCast, MSN, AOL, Earthlink) than for us small web hosting shops. We need a free solution that works because we don't have $100,000.00 to drop on a SPAM solution. Because of the 'free spam utilities' that the big guys give away - it's Soooooo much harder for us to compete - or even offer similar solutions...
Beyond the fact that people in central Massachusetts aren't real stable anyways - the Internet coverage out here was dicey from 9:00am through 3:00pm EST...
Bad enough that I had to bail from my place of power - the SysAdmin Mission Control...... well okay - it's a really small office with more monitors than deskspace....and go to my Colocation providers datacenter to get a decent connection...
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Good point.
I was trying to draw a distinction between Microsoft Windows Administration and Linux Administration.
My point is that to make a Linux box maintenance free takes a person with savvy (ie more expensive to hire) while to make a MS Windows Server maintenance free takes a monkey (ie I can use MS Word, therefore I can administer a Windows Server).
I guess the point I am driving is that in the small business world (as opposed to corporate) where people have a 1-5 servers, the technical expertise to maintain the servers can be drasticly different.
Case in point, would you let a minimum-rage employee from BestBuy or CompUSA even near a Linux server? The flip side is that they support and service Windows servers.... Ergo, most times the BB of CompUSA geeks will be less expensive than someone who knows/understands Linux. In this case, competence = money.
However - this is only my take on training and competence to work with Linux vs Windows....
I STILL think, and no one can convince me otherwise, that Linux should be the server of choice. Speed, Reliability, lack of a BSoD (blue screen of death), and the ability to make it do what I want it to do, and not what Microsoft tells me is should do.
That's my idea of a server...
I disagree. Before you flame me - think about this...
Most small businesses have an external consulting firm setup their Windows servers and install them. Then the internal sysadmin just has to sit there and watch funny graphs and what not - but not really to think.
There are also Windows SysAdmins who know what they are doing. However, IMHO, only about 25% of all Windows SysAdmins really have a handle on what is going on...
For companies that use Linux, usually the internal sysadmins are more savvy and purchase and setup their own servers.
Now the comparison:
Windows SysAdmin who just sits there and monitors the server - prob $35-40k
Windows SysAdmin who takes an active role in their network (and knows what they are doing) - prob $50k and up
Linux SysAdmin (there is no distinction between a moron Linux Admin and a good Linux Admin... you have to admin, if you use/admin Linux you learn and become more savvy) - prob $50k and up...
In general - Windows staffing will be cheaper, if only because Windows is easier and shinier than Linux.
*a smile begin's to creep over Rogue's face...*
"No! Bad Rogue, don't think such thoughts"
*...the thought of an email admin begging to un-blacklist me....*
"Evil Rogue! Don't be evil!"
*...the klickity-klackity sounds of being permanantly removed from AOL's blacklis...*
Music to my ears!!!
Logically,
--rogue
What I'm saying is that as a hosting provider (NOT an ISP) we provide POP3 and SMTP for our users. We run the mail server on an IP Block assigned to us via a UUNet business T1 and the IP's correctly registered via ARIN.
However, when ISPs that our clients use decide to block port 25 traffic, then our clients need to use the ISP's outbound SMTP server. No big deal - just a pain to deal with.
When ISPs block port 110 for POP3...well that's usually when the client throws their hands in the air, spouts some rather unprintable words and either leaves the ISP or our hosting services. Trust me - it came as a great shock when a MSN Tech Support rep told me flat out that MSN doesn't allow POP3/SMTP traffic anymore. That FLOORED me! Didn't help that I was trying to help a small business client who could BARELY afford webhosting and was using the free MSN trial with their new Dell computer...
But, how can a small hosting company offer services when the large ISP blocks those same services in the name of security?
For those who say 'Move the ports so they are on non-standard ports' - how does that help your generic John & Jane Doe users who think that when you say 'the Internet' that you mean that globe icon on the Windows desktop?
The bigger problem is when ISP's block port 25 to my servers. As you mentioned - we're a hosting provider and not an ISP.
......however, when MSN decides that they will ONLY allow HTTP traffic on their network, and block ALL POP3/SMTP traffic - that makes it impossible to compete doesn't it?
Our customers rely upon us for SMTP/POP3. When ISP's kill outbound 25 - it makes it difficult.......
You really have a good point....
I probably shouldn't complain for your very point. However - when we get complaints that our customers emailboxes are jammed full of 'Viagra' and 'Wanna see my webcam' email messages - you have to do SOMETHING! We've tried SpamAssassin - that didn't get everything. We've tried SpamCop - that doesn't get everything. The combination seems to work fairly well.
Perhaps it's easier for the big guys (ComCast, MSN, AOL, Earthlink) than for us small web hosting shops. We need a free solution that works because we don't have $100,000.00 to drop on a SPAM solution. Because of the 'free spam utilities' that the big guys give away - it's Soooooo much harder for us to compete - or even offer similar solutions...
Beyond the fact that people in central Massachusetts aren't real stable anyways - the Internet coverage out here was dicey from 9:00am through 3:00pm EST...
Bad enough that I had to bail from my place of power - the SysAdmin Mission Control...... well okay - it's a really small office with more monitors than deskspace....and go to my Colocation providers datacenter to get a decent connection...
Try www.babbages.com - I only JUST ordered mine - $64.99 with 2nd Day FedEx for $2.95
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