I wonder, are we even talking about the same Lohengrin? I admit that I'm not completely familiar with the work (I don't speak German, but I have an English libretto and own 3 performances: Karajan/Solti/Kempe). I'm curious exactly what you're talking about, though. As I understand it, Elsa was promised to Friedrich by her father but refused to go along with it (and for good reason it seems, he's quite a jerk), and I don't think there's any question that she does love Lohengrin... because, at the end, the survival of Germany is assured, yet, when Lohengrin has to leave her, her grief kills her. She's a fascist?
Wagner's favorite theme was "redemption by love" which is hardly fascist. Maybe if you read fewer essays on these works and actually spent some time with them you'd understand. I fail to see where the Ring tries to "express the supremacy of northern Europe." but I'd be happy to give my opinions on something more specific. As for the "burn all the Jews" quote, I'm unfamiliar with the context that it is taken from, however, it should be noted that Wagner's dislike for the Jews was more "as a people" and he didn't seem to let it dominate his personal relationships with individuals. I'm not saying that there is such thing as a "lesser" racist, just that some people talk and some people act, and Wagner liked to talk.
Yes, flaming me instead of wasting your time responding to what I said certainly distinguishes you from those of us who just talk out of our asses.
And anyone can use that particularly ambiguous definition of fascism and apply it to any selfless act. Is marrying for your country somehow more selfless than dying for it? So the men who died for Israel during its war of independence in 1948 were all fascists?
You'll have to excuse my not recognising your authority in this subject based solely on your comments. A degree in "music education" obviously proves that you are an authority on this subject.
Wagner disliked a lot of people, but of course his dislike for the Jews is always the most brought up because of things that happened 60 years after he died. I don't care that he hated the French... Anything and everything that has happened in Germany since Wagner has been associated with him in one way or another.
But don't kid yourself... Wagner wasn't a fascist, that didn't exist until 40 years after he died. You could call him a proto-fascist, maybe, but you could say the same about just about any nationalist. I fail to see how marrying for your country or pagan myths are inherently anti-sematic anyway.
Most of the association between Wagner and Nazism (in both the U.S. and Israel) has its roots more in American and Soviet propaganda than anywhere else. Ever watch old American WWII films? Wagner's music (particularly the Ride of the Valkyries) always seems to accompany the evil Nazi hordes.
As for the Wagner/Verdi thing, you should maybe do a little more research...
Huh?
I saw the same explanation, and to be honest, I didn't buy it one bit. The tail-stepping was added in for the same reason that that camel-thing farts on Jar Jar in Episode 1 - some dumbfuck thought it was funny. "We couldn't think of any other way to do it." they say. You'd think Lucas would have enough money to hire someone bright enough to, say, have Jabba move out of Han's way? Turn around in place? No way, that might "make sense" and it wouldn't be cute and the 5 year olds wouldn't laugh! When I first saw that scene (and the horrible musical number in Jedi), I was worried about what Episode 1 would be, but I think you can infer my opinion on it from the tone of this post. Lucas won't see any more money from me until the original trilogy is released on DVD, without the new scenes.
"The geomagnetic storm could cause power and satellite failures." or the flimsy plot of a thousand different sci-fi books/tv shows/movies...
sigh, this is nothing new...
on
Copyrant
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· Score: 2
Some OEMs have been only shipping "recovery" cds with their computers since I got my first computer way back in 1996. (It was an IBM p-166 (no mmx)). It took me, with absolutely no computer experence at all, a month to realize that this was nothing but an attempt to control the user, at his own excessive inconvience. IBM's rescue disk only let you completely wipe the harddrive, so it was "no working sound" (stupid mwave, anyone remember those? "i can't listen to music, i'm downloading") or lose all my files that couldn't be backed up on floppys. IBM tech support people were mean to me. And I'll admit that this recovery disk prompted me to my very first act of digital "piracy"... installing windows95b from a buddy's disk. Heh. Microsoft, see what you've made me become?!
Just another reason to appreciate open source software i guess...
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Wagner's favorite theme was "redemption by love" which is hardly fascist. Maybe if you read fewer essays on these works and actually spent some time with them you'd understand. I fail to see where the Ring tries to "express the supremacy of northern Europe." but I'd be happy to give my opinions on something more specific. As for the "burn all the Jews" quote, I'm unfamiliar with the context that it is taken from, however, it should be noted that Wagner's dislike for the Jews was more "as a people" and he didn't seem to let it dominate his personal relationships with individuals. I'm not saying that there is such thing as a "lesser" racist, just that some people talk and some people act, and Wagner liked to talk.
And anyone can use that particularly ambiguous definition of fascism and apply it to any selfless act. Is marrying for your country somehow more selfless than dying for it? So the men who died for Israel during its war of independence in 1948 were all fascists?
You'll have to excuse my not recognising your authority in this subject based solely on your comments. A degree in "music education" obviously proves that you are an authority on this subject.
But don't kid yourself... Wagner wasn't a fascist, that didn't exist until 40 years after he died. You could call him a proto-fascist, maybe, but you could say the same about just about any nationalist. I fail to see how marrying for your country or pagan myths are inherently anti-sematic anyway.
Most of the association between Wagner and Nazism (in both the U.S. and Israel) has its roots more in American and Soviet propaganda than anywhere else. Ever watch old American WWII films? Wagner's music (particularly the Ride of the Valkyries) always seems to accompany the evil Nazi hordes.
As for the Wagner/Verdi thing, you should maybe do a little more research...
Huh?
I saw the same explanation, and to be honest, I didn't buy it one bit. The tail-stepping was added in for the same reason that that camel-thing farts on Jar Jar in Episode 1 - some dumbfuck thought it was funny. "We couldn't think of any other way to do it." they say. You'd think Lucas would have enough money to hire someone bright enough to, say, have Jabba move out of Han's way? Turn around in place? No way, that might "make sense" and it wouldn't be cute and the 5 year olds wouldn't laugh! When I first saw that scene (and the horrible musical number in Jedi), I was worried about what Episode 1 would be, but I think you can infer my opinion on it from the tone of this post. Lucas won't see any more money from me until the original trilogy is released on DVD, without the new scenes.
"The geomagnetic storm could cause power and satellite failures." or the flimsy plot of a thousand different sci-fi books/tv shows/movies...
Some OEMs have been only shipping "recovery" cds with their computers since I got my first computer way back in 1996. (It was an IBM p-166 (no mmx)). It took me, with absolutely no computer experence at all, a month to realize that this was nothing but an attempt to control the user, at his own excessive inconvience. IBM's rescue disk only let you completely wipe the harddrive, so it was "no working sound" (stupid mwave, anyone remember those? "i can't listen to music, i'm downloading") or lose all my files that couldn't be backed up on floppys. IBM tech support people were mean to me. And I'll admit that this recovery disk prompted me to my very first act of digital "piracy"... installing windows95b from a buddy's disk. Heh. Microsoft, see what you've made me become?!
Just another reason to appreciate open source software i guess...