With a mac (I am not a mac fan but illustrating a point) you open it up and it connects automatically. Also it would give error DNS messages in Chrome or Firefox which would confuse the non technical user who would blame the IT guy or Linux etc. The event based init replacement sees the event and knew to auto connect. Init is designed for a 1985 stationary unix server with maybe 30 or so utilities and 1 or 2 apps. Not for something we have today.
Init is the complexity part to deal with its limitations. But it is popular to bash it here so moderators ignore what I have to say. I guess Sun, Ubuntu, and Apple were wrong on why they all ditched init.
Even driven daemons are what is behind NGIX and why it beats Apache in terms of simplicity and performance. Windows also is async event based too in the startup of its services.
I am not saying SystemD is good. I am saying init is not god like XP RULEZ by the folks used to things a certain why.
Init is not async nor event driven nor designed with the complexities of a modern distro.
Lets say you have a laptop that is on one network and goes to sleep when you close it and arrives in a hotel room on another network? How would you do this with init without some serious hacks?
With event driven processes like upstart or Apple's or Sun's you can accomplish this. You can also do things based on events like what if a hack intrusion is detected? SystemD or any event driven daemon can change config files and do other things on the fly without doing manual scripts for checks.
Running programs in the forms of bash scripts is an ugly hack compared to BSD systems in/etc where you just uncomment lines. Init should not be a tangled mess so no it is not perfect nor worked fine for decades. It never was good. Just familiar.
I am not saying SystemD is Good. I want to emphasize that. But everyone else is switching to event driven daemons for this. I will probably be modded down as this is Slashdot but we will see as what I say is no longer popular. SystemD was not hated here until a few months ago.
It's sad that in the world of open/free software somebody can still be bullied out of their job by a bunch of people who, for whatever reason, don't like what they do.
So many people don't understand, the whole point of Open/Free software is that you can fork the source if somebody takes it in a direction you do not like, you don't pay for it and you do not get to dictate what the authors do with it but you are free to make it your own if you choose to. However some people have this entitlement complex whereby they think they can dictate the direction of somebody elses work, it's sad that these vitriolic people have not been put in their place. They do not contribute and they simply want something for nothing, that is not the way of free software.
It is great that you are staying on at Debian to continue your work there, it is terrible that you have been forced into that decision though and it does not bode well for the future of open source and free software.
Happens in the real world too. I have already been demoted at my job and am ready to be fired tomorrow and I am considering resigning. FYI I have positive work kudus from my fans at work and was a hero before moving to a new site.
I got blamed for things out of my control and my inferior who just got promoted over me got credit for me fixing them and the view was it was all my fault when 20% of stations didn't even have freaking Ethernet!
When it comes to a man's reputation bullies can certainly ruin your image. Perception is everything and if you are in an unpopular project your reputation is harmed from the beginning.
I feel for the fellow if he is reading this and know what he is going through. You can rebuild your reputation elsewhere and resigning rather than being kicked out is the right thing as it would be even more embarrassing thanks to some asshats. Show what you are made of and at least you are free from the stress and tyranny of politics.
I hated MS and created this ANTI MS ID because DOS and Windows were truly horrible in the 1990s. Why use an OS that limits itself with 640k of ram when my 486 has 8 megs and do hacks like memmaker with extended vs expanded ram to make up for deficiencies of an OS that was called quick and dirty 15 freaking years ealier??
Windows added more fragility to the mix on top of that core. I was scared IE which was great was a ploy to stop innovation once Netscaoe couldn't compete and it would turn into an old crappy proprietary browser.
I read my posts from 2002 where I threaten to leave computers since DOJ sided with Microsoft!!
Fastforward today
I use IE now typing this (hell would have froze if I caught myself reading this post back in 2001). It is standards compliant and I have no fear of a monopoly. MS makes free stuff for starving artists and is progressive with price structure as you make more income.
MS Windows is really good and I dare say less buggy than Android. Windows 7 is rock solid and just works. Visual studio supports standards.
I myself am older and pragmatic and realize no one gives a shit about desktop computers or ideals! They want a job done and will I do it and get paid or will they hire someone else? Sadly Linux is part of this unless you run some specific apps on a server. The business need is more important and I like getting paid more than I did back then so it is a win win. Also being in the enterprise and seeing the tears and pain of migrating from XP to Windows 7 (who would have thought people would use a freaking 11 year old OS back in 2001??) I see why MS had to not make Windows great. It's annoying business customers will go elsewhere if they made Windows good as their apps would break. It was them and not MS who held the platform back in those days.
I just installed it for the first time and I see no.PHP or.HTML or HTML5 support in the base nor plugins with the community edition? I am not a troll but I do not see how IntelliJ is better unless you are a android or java user.
I have the express editions of VS which have some javascript support but the lack of.php is annoying.
I just imaged my computer and installed express before reading this. Sigh...
If it is anything like previous versions it means another re-image as I remember I couldn't fully uninstall the learning editions or express of products as they leave.dlls everywhere unless things change.
I will stick with the express editions until I see a reason to change as my weekend is half over. I do web stuff so I do not need anything advanced unless the web edition has more features in the pro? It seams express just has gimped c++ profiling and team support which I do not use.
I submitted the story but I realize back in the 1980's the same was said of IBM. They gave up when they lost to Microsoft. Today they are fairly open about their standards. DB2 is still proprietary but they have opened a lot of stuff and they charge a ton for consulting and enterprise level stuff.
MS is going the same route is my guess.
Folks I think Google is who we should fear next. Chrome has a lot of -webkit and -blink specific stuff in CSS not in HTML 5. I am not a pro MS troll at all but use to be an anti MS zealot many moons ago but changed.
Either way MS makes lots of software some bad but some really good. Visual Studio is a good one. Windows and IE which are the worst are improving. Office is ok with Excel being great and Outlook being crappy. No different than any other large software company.
The page doesn't look right and it doesn't work. How can the Web Development guys be so incompetent? I am filling a bug report and expect a fix by the end of today. Thanks -phb
The developers do not actually run the OS outside of a VM in MacOSX.
OpenBSD seems to be tried and tested and true.
FreeBSD heights were the 4.x series. I kept on 4.x until 4.12 when 6.x was being released. Gave up. Started using XP and Linux off and on before leaving Linux altogether. Sad
Sounds like you need this if you want to blow $200 for a real desktop like system. Sure some emedded uses would call for an atom.
For building robots and doing simple things an ARM is fine and most importantly cheap! Folks still use XP machines with 512 megs of ram and cpus not much faster to this day. Postgresql, php, image recognition, and other clients tools ran fine on a pentium III. He'll Debian demoed a 1000 users with apache on a 75 mhz pentium back in the day!
These are not made to run VMware and virtual ized oses and video editing and compiling code. That's what a workstation like my i7 is for.
You know plenty of XP boxes which represent up to % 15 of us Internet users work just fine with 512 megs.
People everyday use word, excel, video editing, and a few tabs in IE 8 just fine with it. I think it's plenty for a hobbyist board. Also Intel makes $200 atom based pie based devices too with USB 3 and hdmi and more ram if you want power. Folks these are $49! That is the appeal for a cheap hacking board. $200 is a little much to goof with in comparison
In 1999 it was hot and had all sorts of apps that were essential. CS majors loved them. For $3000 they could have their own but couldn't run games. It could do excel, word, visual studio, java, and Unix stuff with FreeBSD or Linux (I was in BSD camp back then). It could trounce a highly priced x86 in it's price range.
But yes it was niche for artists, hackers, and engineers. Carly Fiona killed it. Part of it came back to live with the AMD AthlonXPs and Athlons MPs which creamed the Pentium IVs. Really it was so much DEC you could swap the alpha and Athlon CPUs a decade ago!
The market was hot for ALPHA. My community college used them and Slashdot was using them as well in the turn of the century. They ran Windows and IE 6 for internet terminals and classroom labs. $3000 got you a powerful workstation that ran Linux and Windows with Office and Visual Studio and Office. True games were lacking outside Quake 3.
But Compaq bought DEC which HP bought and Carly Fiona pillaged. Rest in peace alpha.
They also purposedly crippled the chip to make it slow to sell more Itaniums.
MS from day 1 with NT was never use x86 as the main CPU.
This was to prevent another crappy DOS or Windows 95 quirky OS optimized and insecure with buffer overflows and optimizations for just x86 instead of portable C libraries.
NT was made for the mips in 1993, not x86 (later backported). This tradition continued and ARM makes sense for the server room.
Most apps are database driven or network specific and are I/O bottlenecked. Not CPU. A java servlet does a query and waits 10 million cpu cycles (exaggeration) waiting for Oracle to get the data from the spinning pile of rust and then process etc.
ARM makes sense in this as it saves money in power and customers are less needy with x86 compatibility there vs the desktop.
The history NT is really a fear of what happened to the crappy DOS based operating systems such as Windows.
NT from day 1 was purposedly not made x86 as the main cpu as people used assembler more in those days and MS management knew it would loose its portability and later security by having x86 hacks and direct memory calls in the kernel etc.
So NT 3.1 was made for the MIPS first on SGI then backported to x86. This continued to PowerPC in 1990s with NT 3.51 and NT 4 and later Alpha with Windows 2000. Itanium was made target which is why Balmer demoed Server 2003 on it first as x86 was not ready.
Today it is ARM. Actually it is very smart engineering wise to do this.
We all hate MS on Slashdot as it is the pro Unix anti MS site since the 1990s so it is a given here. But really portability was never a problem and it iw as not a dumb move.
In the long term ARM and low power cpus make sense for things like Database where I/O and not cpu is the bottleneck. Even in Java servelts and.NET app servers it is waiting for data() from the spinning piles or rust to fill a query more than the CPU.
The only thing is ARM loses its lower power qualities as soon as it does more and you add more things to it like virtualization, FPUS, etc.
IE has for 5 years now. Oh your comparing a 13 year old version when Mozilla and even Opera required quirks and hacks? Yeah real fair comparison. IE 6 was more standards compliant than Netscape and Mozilla 1.0 anyday. Compare a modern browsers
I just read this on Facebook which will turn your brain into mush . People really believe that scientists who believe go are radical socialists with funding from Soros. After all the majority are democrats! Problem is this is mainstream as we all know we ascended into communism when Clinton was elected... rolls eyes. It would not be an issue if just 10% believed this. Not 45% of all Americans
Slashdot Mirror
Then why did Apple get rid of init years ago?
With a mac (I am not a mac fan but illustrating a point) you open it up and it connects automatically. Also it would give error DNS messages in Chrome or Firefox which would confuse the non technical user who would blame the IT guy or Linux etc. The event based init replacement sees the event and knew to auto connect. Init is designed for a 1985 stationary unix server with maybe 30 or so utilities and 1 or 2 apps. Not for something we have today.
Init is the complexity part to deal with its limitations. But it is popular to bash it here so moderators ignore what I have to say. I guess Sun, Ubuntu, and Apple were wrong on why they all ditched init.
Even driven daemons are what is behind NGIX and why it beats Apache in terms of simplicity and performance. Windows also is async event based too in the startup of its services.
I am not saying SystemD is good. I am saying init is not god like XP RULEZ by the folks used to things a certain why.
Init is not async nor event driven nor designed with the complexities of a modern distro.
Lets say you have a laptop that is on one network and goes to sleep when you close it and arrives in a hotel room on another network? How would you do this with init without some serious hacks?
With event driven processes like upstart or Apple's or Sun's you can accomplish this. You can also do things based on events like what if a hack intrusion is detected? SystemD or any event driven daemon can change config files and do other things on the fly without doing manual scripts for checks.
Running programs in the forms of bash scripts is an ugly hack compared to BSD systems in /etc where you just uncomment lines. Init should not be a tangled mess so no it is not perfect nor worked fine for decades. It never was good. Just familiar.
I am not saying SystemD is Good. I want to emphasize that. But everyone else is switching to event driven daemons for this. I will probably be modded down as this is Slashdot but we will see as what I say is no longer popular. SystemD was not hated here until a few months ago.
The 'real world'???
I assume he was not paid and was a volunteer. Am I wrong?
It's sad that in the world of open/free software somebody can still be bullied out of their job by a bunch of people who, for whatever reason, don't like what they do.
So many people don't understand, the whole point of Open/Free software is that you can fork the source if somebody takes it in a direction you do not like, you don't pay for it and you do not get to dictate what the authors do with it but you are free to make it your own if you choose to. However some people have this entitlement complex whereby they think they can dictate the direction of somebody elses work, it's sad that these vitriolic people have not been put in their place. They do not contribute and they simply want something for nothing, that is not the way of free software.
It is great that you are staying on at Debian to continue your work there, it is terrible that you have been forced into that decision though and it does not bode well for the future of open source and free software.
Happens in the real world too. I have already been demoted at my job and am ready to be fired tomorrow and I am considering resigning. FYI I have positive work kudus from my fans at work and was a hero before moving to a new site.
I got blamed for things out of my control and my inferior who just got promoted over me got credit for me fixing them and the view was it was all my fault when 20% of stations didn't even have freaking Ethernet!
When it comes to a man's reputation bullies can certainly ruin your image. Perception is everything and if you are in an unpopular project your reputation is harmed from the beginning.
I feel for the fellow if he is reading this and know what he is going through. You can rebuild your reputation elsewhere and resigning rather than being kicked out is the right thing as it would be even more embarrassing thanks to some asshats. Show what you are made of and at least you are free from the stress and tyranny of politics.
Unfortunately it is a no go if IE 8 doesn't support it. Sigh
Yes my business idea is to cater to business customers and it is the new IE 6 of this decade.
Both
I hated MS and created this ANTI MS ID because DOS and Windows were truly horrible in the 1990s. Why use an OS that limits itself with 640k of ram when my 486 has 8 megs and do hacks like memmaker with extended vs expanded ram to make up for deficiencies of an OS that was called quick and dirty 15 freaking years ealier??
Windows added more fragility to the mix on top of that core. I was scared IE which was great was a ploy to stop innovation once Netscaoe couldn't compete and it would turn into an old crappy proprietary browser.
I read my posts from 2002 where I threaten to leave computers since DOJ sided with Microsoft!!
Fastforward today
I use IE now typing this (hell would have froze if I caught myself reading this post back in 2001). It is standards compliant and I have no fear of a monopoly. MS makes free stuff for starving artists and is progressive with price structure as you make more income.
MS Windows is really good and I dare say less buggy than Android. Windows 7 is rock solid and just works. Visual studio supports standards.
I myself am older and pragmatic and realize no one gives a shit about desktop computers or ideals! They want a job done and will I do it and get paid or will they hire someone else? Sadly Linux is part of this unless you run some specific apps on a server. The business need is more important and I like getting paid more than I did back then so it is a win win. Also being in the enterprise and seeing the tears and pain of migrating from XP to Windows 7 (who would have thought people would use a freaking 11 year old OS back in 2001??) I see why MS had to not make Windows great. It's annoying business customers will go elsewhere if they made Windows good as their apps would break. It was them and not MS who held the platform back in those days.
It does everything
I just installed it for the first time and I see no .PHP or .HTML or HTML5 support in the base nor plugins with the community edition? I am not a troll but I do not see how IntelliJ is better unless you are a android or java user.
I have the express editions of VS which have some javascript support but the lack of .php is annoying.
Last a I checked BSD licensed software is also OSS. Just not Stallmans version of it.
I just imaged my computer and installed express before reading this. Sigh ...
If it is anything like previous versions it means another re-image as I remember I couldn't fully uninstall the learning editions or express of products as they leave .dlls everywhere unless things change.
I will stick with the express editions until I see a reason to change as my weekend is half over. I do web stuff so I do not need anything advanced unless the web edition has more features in the pro? It seams express just has gimped c++ profiling and team support which I do not use.
I was going to prove you wrong by opening a copy of Netbeans ... it is still loading hold on.
Can't possibly be cheaper anymore considering the new VS edition: "Community" is free
What is the difference between community edition and express editions?
Or I am thinking perhaps they realized they lost?
I submitted the story but I realize back in the 1980's the same was said of IBM. They gave up when they lost to Microsoft. Today they are fairly open about their standards. DB2 is still proprietary but they have opened a lot of stuff and they charge a ton for consulting and enterprise level stuff.
MS is going the same route is my guess.
Folks I think Google is who we should fear next. Chrome has a lot of -webkit and -blink specific stuff in CSS not in HTML 5. I am not a pro MS troll at all but use to be an anti MS zealot many moons ago but changed.
Either way MS makes lots of software some bad but some really good. Visual Studio is a good one. Windows and IE which are the worst are improving. Office is ok with Excel being great and Outlook being crappy. No different than any other large software company.
Then use IE 6.
Html 5 is more than about text viewers with pictures. It is a standard for applets and guis
The page doesn't look right and it doesn't work. How can the Web Development guys be so incompetent? I am filling a bug report and expect a fix by the end of today. Thanks -phb
The developers do not actually run the OS outside of a VM in MacOSX.
OpenBSD seems to be tried and tested and true.
FreeBSD heights were the 4.x series. I kept on 4.x until 4.12 when 6.x was being released. Gave up. Started using XP and Linux off and on before leaving Linux altogether. Sad
Sounds like you need this if you want to blow $200 for a real desktop like system. Sure some emedded uses would call for an atom.
For building robots and doing simple things an ARM is fine and most importantly cheap! Folks still use XP machines with 512 megs of ram and cpus not much faster to this day. Postgresql, php, image recognition, and other clients tools ran fine on a pentium III. He'll Debian demoed a 1000 users with apache on a 75 mhz pentium back in the day!
These are not made to run VMware and virtual ized oses and video editing and compiling code. That's what a workstation like my i7 is for.
You know plenty of XP boxes which represent up to % 15 of us Internet users work just fine with 512 megs.
People everyday use word, excel, video editing, and a few tabs in IE 8 just fine with it. I think it's plenty for a hobbyist board. Also Intel makes $200 atom based pie based devices too with USB 3 and hdmi and more ram if you want power. Folks these are $49! That is the appeal for a cheap hacking board. $200 is a little much to goof with in comparison
Alpha doesn't exist anymore. RIP.
In 1999 it was hot and had all sorts of apps that were essential. CS majors loved them. For $3000 they could have their own but couldn't run games. It could do excel, word, visual studio, java, and Unix stuff with FreeBSD or Linux (I was in BSD camp back then). It could trounce a highly priced x86 in it's price range.
But yes it was niche for artists, hackers, and engineers. Carly Fiona killed it. Part of it came back to live with the AMD AthlonXPs and Athlons MPs which creamed the Pentium IVs. Really it was so much DEC you could swap the alpha and Athlon CPUs a decade ago!
Or Carly Fiona wanted Itanium instead.
The market was hot for ALPHA. My community college used them and Slashdot was using them as well in the turn of the century. They ran Windows and IE 6 for internet terminals and classroom labs. $3000 got you a powerful workstation that ran Linux and Windows with Office and Visual Studio and Office. True games were lacking outside Quake 3.
But Compaq bought DEC which HP bought and Carly Fiona pillaged. Rest in peace alpha.
They also purposedly crippled the chip to make it slow to sell more Itaniums.
MS from day 1 with NT was never use x86 as the main CPU.
This was to prevent another crappy DOS or Windows 95 quirky OS optimized and insecure with buffer overflows and optimizations for just x86 instead of portable C libraries.
NT was made for the mips in 1993, not x86 (later backported). This tradition continued and ARM makes sense for the server room.
Most apps are database driven or network specific and are I/O bottlenecked. Not CPU. A java servlet does a query and waits 10 million cpu cycles (exaggeration) waiting for Oracle to get the data from the spinning pile of rust and then process etc.
ARM makes sense in this as it saves money in power and customers are less needy with x86 compatibility there vs the desktop.
The history NT is really a fear of what happened to the crappy DOS based operating systems such as Windows.
NT from day 1 was purposedly not made x86 as the main cpu as people used assembler more in those days and MS management knew it would loose its portability and later security by having x86 hacks and direct memory calls in the kernel etc.
So NT 3.1 was made for the MIPS first on SGI then backported to x86. This continued to PowerPC in 1990s with NT 3.51 and NT 4 and later Alpha with Windows 2000. Itanium was made target which is why Balmer demoed Server 2003 on it first as x86 was not ready.
Today it is ARM. Actually it is very smart engineering wise to do this.
We all hate MS on Slashdot as it is the pro Unix anti MS site since the 1990s so it is a given here. But really portability was never a problem and it iw as not a dumb move.
In the long term ARM and low power cpus make sense for things like Database where I/O and not cpu is the bottleneck. Even in Java servelts and .NET app servers it is waiting for data() from the spinning piles or rust to fill a query more than the CPU.
The only thing is ARM loses its lower power qualities as soon as it does more and you add more things to it like virtualization, FPUS, etc.
IE has for 5 years now. Oh your comparing a 13 year old version when Mozilla and even Opera required quirks and hacks? Yeah real fair comparison. IE 6 was more standards compliant than Netscape and Mozilla 1.0 anyday. Compare a modern browsers
Because Americans don't appreciate telling them which car to buy
I just read this on Facebook which will turn your brain into mush . People really believe that scientists who believe go are radical socialists with funding from Soros. After all the majority are democrats! Problem is this is mainstream as we all know we ascended into communism when Clinton was elected ... rolls eyes. It would not be an issue if just 10% believed this. Not 45% of all Americans