Simple tables and bullet points on my resume will not work right with the margins if I do not use Office. I even recreated my resume from scratch and it has the same problem. In a business your reputation is on the line if your documents look like crap. If you are a consultant and you send something that doesn't even look right you are fired immediately! I am paying this guy $60 an hour and he can't even use a margin?!
Also they were kind enough to divide the new features by individual product. Word is here, so is excel, outlook, as well as powerpoint.
I just briefly went through them but the general improvements is that you can share documents with your coworkers with its cloud add ons as well as import and export your work documents with integrated skydrive from your work/home pcs. For individual programs, Excel has a new intellisense that works in cells so you can select commonly used names and formulas with a transparent window that wont obstruct your data. MS calls this ghosting. Outlook has Bing and map integration for directions and travel data as well as having a multiview pane so you do not have to close the calendar to view your todo list for example. Word, well I didn't see anything worthwhile except for some extra formatting options for brochures and other material and a souped up track it list where you can even do text messages in them for things like "Bob redo these figures - boss". Does this mean they are axing MS Publisher? They seem to be covering the same functionality. There is some other stuff that I will read later because it is detailed.
What is clear is this is surprisingly strongly aimed at corporations. MS is getting back to its strength as a groupware product that ties to corporate infrastructure. The ones who still are holding on to IE 6/8, XP, and Office 2k3. College students or home users will not see that much improvement. Also Neowin mentioned MS is killing both Vista and XP support with Office 2013. This office suite is aimed to get those corporations dragging their feet with Windows 7.
Anyone however believes in 100% security will always be a victim of a hack. Always store personal information knowing that somebody can get to it.
Inexcusable!
Any bank that would get robbed that has little to no security should be grilled the same way. Nothing is ever secure so its ok there was no alarm in the safe etc. This reminded me why I no longer use Yahoo anymore and why the company is dying. I used to somewhat feel sorry for them as Google was overated with a marketing swing but it shows poor leadership and management.
An example is YahooChat which I used to use over a decade ago. Then porn spammers came in and bombed you every 3 minutes with check out my titties and this scared every human away to the point where only porn spam bots were in there. There are teen and kid chat rooms where this happened too! People should be in jail for this as this is now pedophilia. Did Yahoo even care? No. for the hell of it 3 years ago I came back to Yahoo chat and the problem was still not fixed and even worse where I would be spammed every 30 seconds. No human is left anymore.
Now comes YahooIM which I still use, but not with a Yahoo client. I get these strange names each time I log in from Digsby by of course my Yahoo account requesting to be my friend. Same porn spammers. I just do not add anyone unless I they have emailed me and let me know ahead of time because every few hours a spammer will come on. Did Yahoo fix it? No.
Evern wonder why Skype is so popular as an IM? Now you know why.
Yahoo lost to Google and Bing. DId Yahoo fix it? No.
If you use Firefox and have YahooMail opened in one tab and browse porn in the other tab your yahoo email will randomly start sending out spam to people. Hairyfeet noticed that too. Did Yahoo fix it? no.... I wont waste any more slashdotters time other to say stop giving them excuses for their incompetent management and employees. They are incompetent and any company worth as much as Yahoo should have a dedicated security team. There are more issues I wont discuss but only old people whose default homepage has not been changed still use it. The company is dying right now deservingly so and it will probably be gone in a couple years. Nobody seems to care or take their product seriously. It is no surprise they only got off their ass when it hit the news. Yahoo is terrible
Workplaces should actually be the least problematic. You can dictate what version of IE people are using, and at this point any responsible IT department REALLY should have a migration plan in place for getting rid of any legacy XP boxes.
Heck, if a workplace hasn't already moved to 7 by now - they've got bigger issues than worrying about jQuery.
Many are not. Even if they did switch to Windows 7 it comes with IE 8 and corporations paranoid and scared from the IE 6 experience will also lock that browser from being upgraded too and refuse to upgrade until 2019.
XP is also an outdated insecure pile, which needs to go as badly as IE 6.
Agreed. I view this not as an IE problem but an XP one. Which OS runs these dinosaurs? While the dinosaur OS which is XP. Get rid of that and old IE goes away. However, IE 8 wont sadly as it comes with Windows 7 and many corps still believe in locking browser versions down are now locked to IE 8 as they were with IE 6.
Basically you do not need METRO at all to experience. Go open IE and then do fullscreen at www.hotmail.com and that is it. It is not even an app more than a container. The news app sucks on Metro as well but not quite as badly.
It really is bare knuckles with fullscreen IE 10 instances. iOS got it right with its version of apps having toolbars, tabs, and other features. The safari for my dad's ipad is identical to the desktop version except for a few menu items.
Well a corporations job is to make money. Its moral and ethical guidelines is to increase shareholder wealth on a quarterly basis by constantly raising the share price.
It does not serve them well if some companies get hurt with no internet access and it is stealing from them otherwise. Liability is real as older computers without updates typically are corporate owned systems in places like managerial offices and other places where they can't be cleaned easily without a local IT staff. They could lose money in the process and blame megatelecom for the losses. They would win too as the FBI warned the ISPs about this and used their help sadly so it is foreseen and a acknowledged responsibility.
Keep both the users and shareholders happy is the game and for people who need real help to report things like outages. I wish I could yank the cords but you are talking about other people's property too and what gives us to right to dictate? Even if we are right it is another angle.
Are you going to pay them for the calls that are going to be ringing off the hook! My guess is the phone system will be so overloaded it would probably crash and prevent legitimate calls from coming through.
Are you going to pay their legal fees when business users sue due to lost income? Yes it was both forseen and the ISP has a duty of care, and has even excersized this supporting its users. A lawyer would be drooling if you said fuck it and cut the cord.
It is a business decision and not a moral or philosophical one.
I have to support a lot for a gov site. I don't know what your corporate policy may be, but clients start getting/really/ flustered when I show them the pricing structure for IE support...
I'm willing to go back to IE5, but nobody's ever taken me up on what that would cost. IE7 is an extra 20% on/all/ development costs (plus features being removed or replaced with crippleware) and IE6 is 50% beyond that.
Some of those numbers are to keep up with training on new technologies while having to support relics.
Now, there's a lot of infrastructure and systems in place to try to make this work -- but it's all stuff that takes real time for me to learn, write up, troubleshoot. It slows down debugging, makes the libraries slower, and basically results in horribly 'forked' applications. Or flash.
I realize a boss is a boss is a boss and can say anything they want. But have you tried giving yours an itemized timesheet where they see that "IE6 support constitutes 35% of the total cost of the project" ? Or that "making this little circle draw right here in IE7 actually slows the application by 5000%, and while you can fix it, the resulting fork has tripled your code base and made your 5 minute test suite take an hour?
At a certain point, your/boss/ will start billing IT for refusing to install firefox or chrome, even if it's just for your web app.
At an old job our web app actually got people off of IE5 when the CEO of a fortune 500 dragged their CIO into their office and told them to find a way to upgrade, get firefox installed for an entire department, or resign. Now, that company didn't bill extra for old support (they should have). We just didn't have the resources to get our application working in IE5 (or I wasn't good enough, same thing).
The thing is, your time is probably cheaper than those desktop upgrades. Because as an employee, they think of you as a black-box that gets-the-job-done-per-month. You need to present IE6 (and 7, and 8, and probably 9 for the lack of webgl) as an unecessary operational expense. Just like some apocryphal mainframes in a modern bank where 100 meg hard drives cost thousands to replace, but they still need that old COBOL reporting system from the 60's... IE6 is a liability and a threat to your mission success.
I am creating the startup and I am my own boss.:-). I need vendors and manufacturer support. My plan is to make it simple and probably not bother with IE 6 at all since most places use it for intranet apps. I can not find any good links or books on IE 7 hacks so I use IE 6 ones (though IE 7 is at least aware of the correct box model) so I might as well support it. Sigh
Google was instrumental in stopping IE 6 and 7 in late 2009. Hell 1/5 of the webs traffic was IE 6 in the US (not China) until Youtube, gmail, and others put notices that we wont support your browser anymore.
It worked very well. That and advertisements for Chrome helped too for clueless users who did not know where to get a better browser as statistics show the majority of new Chrome users are former IE users and not FF.
Business will upgrade when people stop supporting it. They left DOS behind, Win 16 apps behind, and Netscape intranet software behind too. If enough people stop supporting it they will leave. It is the opposite of software being sold RIGHT NOW in 2012 that still requires XP and even IE 8 keeps these guys locked in. Not everyone is big like google and yes, they lost some Google Doc accounts to Office 365 for their refusal of IE 7 support, but it works.
People are ignorant and if something works fine and developers take external costs and time to themselves for free they will never leave. Have the cool CSS 3 sites only work in IE 9 or later and people will eventually upgrade.
Not the statistics I see on statcounter for the US. China is an outliner that gives a false impression on netmarketshare/appliances etc because they only run pirated software over there. Unless you make Mandrin websites that shouldn't matter.
Windows 7 in the US and Europe already hit 50% and XP is dying fast. There were barely be double digit marketshare by the end of next year. It is time to move on and start supporting newer standards. Look at this way? The iphone came out in 2007 with css and html 5 support for its apps. That was 5 years ago and we still have these issues because it is so far behind and it is common that we should be implementing css 3 and html 5 and use JIT javascript engines to not leave these users behind, but the corps will make us use IE 8 until 2020 if they can.
Browsers should be upgraded frequently like Windows Update. If developers stop supporting like they did with 16 bit Win 3.x apps, dos, netscape, the corps move on. If not we still would be using Windows 3.1 with Netscape 4.7 today. Why? It works fine!
IE 8 in the US already drops down to 11% markethsare on the weekends according to www.gstatcounter.com! It is on its way out and it is time people moved iwth the times.
Issue I have with conditional comments is the bloated javascript libraries are still loaded and now they are bloated by 2x, even if they are ignored by the browser. IE 6 crashes with too much javascript.
For example in IE 6 I can load msnbc.com fine and it still is compatible. But it will freeze up randomly when these annoying social media scripts start up. I have to alt tab and kill it and use a custom hosts file for it to even load half the time.
The costs add up with ISPs now putting in caps and raising bandwidth rates as their competitors die off. 2 megs a view is very expensive and not friendly to those still on dial up vs half that without jquery... especially 2 jqueries loading up.
So in essence I am in favor of 2.0 but will not use it for awhile for these reasons. If old IE finally dies out by 2014 then I will upgrade. I have a feeling the corporations are terrified of new browsers after IE 6 hell and will stay with 8 until 2020 until developers stop supporting IE 8. It is already becoming the new IE 6 of this decade and MS now has IE on an annual release trek so IE 18 will be out by then.
Too bad I am working on a corporate oriented site. I can imagine IE 6 and 7 will be over 50% usage by the biggest customers who spend the most, even if they are a small minority overall.
I should not have to be reading books on IE 6 hacks in 2012.
I hate old IE versions as much as every other web developer, but I don't think this is the right way to go yet. One of the main reasons most developers love jQuery is because it allows them to forget about IE quirks and lack of compliance, and just write code. I think it would be better if they continued to support IE in their main branch, but also offer a "lite" version without IE support.
Knet, why don't you see 16 bit Windows 3.x apps anymore? Why did windows95 not fail? Why did XP not fail?
The answer is developers said enough is enough and stopped porting to ancient standards. XP should have died years ago and IE 6 will keep staying as long as people think their platforms are fine. Look it runs everything!
Corporations and cheapskates are setting the standard locked forever and IE 8 is 3 years old. But it is what IE 6 should have been and was still far behind. It is time to move on and I am not saying this for the sake of change for something that works.
Mobile devices are demanding HTML 5 and CSS 3 with JIT javascript engines. This legacy shit is a pain in the ass and moves the external costs to the developers. Maybe if internet growth was still desktop oriented but its not. It is a pain to write 2 different websites.Worse Windows 7 comes with IE 8 so these users who do leave XP by 2014 will probably lock their corporate desktops to it until 2020 while we STILL WAIT for iphone 2007 functionality. That is ridiculous.
Even more sadly, this is not news. IE has been effectively sabotaging the non-IE community for years. The need to specifically code for IE6 and IE7 due to their crappy compliance with web standards has swallowed immense amounts of global developer effort, which could otherwise have been invested in improving the interwebs for everyone.
I have never seen a woman who just wants some man to get in her pants with no emotional attachment. It makes sense to me biologically if the husband is into another chick he will devote his resources into her and not the original woman or the kid so rich would be important but not to detriment of no relationship. High income earners have just as high divorce rates where 70% are initiated by women. Doctors are especially high bceause they spend too much time at work making money and not spending time with them. The divorce rate is 70%. I am quoting stuff too from my exwife who we split due to financial issues. But she told me time was important with her as she was once married to a guy with more money but she was unhappy.
I think like that creepy gf video above I would not care how hot she is if she turned into that! The same thing could apply to rich guys who are unavailable. Women are much more social than we are. Perhaps someone female could reply?... this is slashdot who am i kidding?
Well I trust girlintraining more because she is an actual female.
Sure they are people like men, but generally women think more like each other than us by a longsheet. There are deep wiring that changes the subconcious in both men and women defined by our past roles wether we like it or not.
A woman will always pick a man who loves them and that is true. A rich man is a great provider so she can take care of a baby yes, but it wont mean jack shit if he doesn't love her and bang some other chick and focus on her and her baby instead.
Lets look at it from a woman's point of view that we only like supermodels and chicks that are pretty? It is true in general that we like a pretty hot smoking chick younger than us that we can bone every night. But if this hot smoking babe that you want ends up like this RUN FOR THE DOOR!
I can see a sensible woman doing the same thing with a guy with money and a nice career who has potential, then is all apeshit or doesn't listen nor respect her. Men complain they do not shut up, women complain they do not listen and would be the equilivant if being ignored. Again, people are people and are different but there are similiarities with the underlined wiring.
It took $200,000 worth of equipment to crack the cert key according to www.arstechnica.com.
The government does have super computers as well and many that are listed in the top 500 are classified. I wonder how long it would take a modern cray or a cluster of 1,000 computers to crack a 2048 cert? It does sound like something the government would not mind spending.
I doubt the russian mobfia would invest that much but maybe they can afford to do just that for a single piece of malware that will be useless once AV software detects it. It sounds too risk and far fetched
Because we buy them and not lease them. Only rich people with supperior credit can lease anyway and the bottom 80% of us have to buy. Leasing is a terrible deal too unless you are filthy rich and do not care about money.
XP users are moaning if you go to places like www.wired.com and forbes.com thinking they are entitled to keep their 8 year pcs working with comments like "...I get to decide to leave Xp thank you very much!..". You do not throw out your fridge after 10 years it still works?
Macs are an expensive investment so it should be logical to expect more life out of them. Apple is getting greedy and will push users away with this as it forgets about the customers needs too. In a perfect economy both the customer and the seller reach an equilibrium that satisfies both their needs in a compromise. Apple is taking the ball and telling them to go home.
If you are paying professional quality prices than it better as hell last a long time supported. SCADA embedded systems are supported 10 years min! Why? They cost $20,000 and up. Same is true for servers that expensive.
Apple has shown they prefer you to throw out your macbook if you need a new battery and not care how much you paid. I find this unacceptable at that price point.
Most business environments I have seen still use 2004 era hardware with IE 6 half upgraded to IE 8 and XP stil with 512 megs of ram with no plans to trash them until 2014.
Running FF 3.6 under these contraints is quite fun... before Mozilla tackled the ram issue in more modern releases.
I guess I have the opposite tasts but using Windows fonts instead of the default makes them bolder and a little blurrier to me.
Anyway Linux disabled font hinting due to patents from Apple. It is one of the reasons I stopped using it. There was a hack where you could enable it yourself and compile it by hand running commands under Ubuntu. No joke I am serious as there is no binary version of font hinting fully as it is crippled. I think Fedora might have it without a custom compiling X by yourself.
That was a few years ago and I found the custom patches no longer worked with the more modern sources. It was rediculous.
And they were wrong. XP should have died a long time ago. Vista should be dead now too.
Yeah no kidding.
It is the bane of web developers who can't use CSS 3 and even css 2.1 features like curved boxes because these XP users still use old IE. Though, IE 6 is about dead on the web thank god which is truly a nightmare.
IT support guys like me do not even have the dialogue boxes memorized on XP anymore. They are security risk to the users and XP really does suck on newer SSDs with no trim support and scaling on anything more than 2 cpus. It pages like a mofo which ruins the drives on... ok enough is enough about ranting.
But I see the corporate view too. They are just haning on since 2009 not to layoff workers in weak demand and you are asking them to replace something that works fine for no good reason?? More up to date wont cut it when you have targets to meet to satisfy shareholders, and lights to keep on with weak demand.
At watching all those experiencing nerd rage that Microsoft is ending XP support after a mere 14 years, and how they are so angry at Microsoft they are going to buy a Mac next rather than upgrade to Windows 7. Then we read stuff like this.
Only a little nerd rage here on slashdot from XP loyalists, but wired.com and CIO magazine's website was filled with them and they were somewhat serious about using a Mac next to avoid planned obscelence in their minds.
Slashdot Mirror
Simple tables and bullet points on my resume will not work right with the margins if I do not use Office. I even recreated my resume from scratch and it has the same problem. In a business your reputation is on the line if your documents look like crap. If you are a consultant and you send something that doesn't even look right you are fired immediately! I am paying this guy $60 an hour and he can't even use a margin?!
Arstechnica has a more comprehensive review.
Also they were kind enough to divide the new features by individual product. Word is here, so is excel, outlook, as well as powerpoint.
I just briefly went through them but the general improvements is that you can share documents with your coworkers with its cloud add ons as well as import and export your work documents with integrated skydrive from your work/home pcs. For individual programs, Excel has a new intellisense that works in cells so you can select commonly used names and formulas with a transparent window that wont obstruct your data. MS calls this ghosting. Outlook has Bing and map integration for directions and travel data as well as having a multiview pane so you do not have to close the calendar to view your todo list for example. Word, well I didn't see anything worthwhile except for some extra formatting options for brochures and other material and a souped up track it list where you can even do text messages in them for things like "Bob redo these figures - boss". Does this mean they are axing MS Publisher? They seem to be covering the same functionality. There is some other stuff that I will read later because it is detailed.
What is clear is this is surprisingly strongly aimed at corporations. MS is getting back to its strength as a groupware product that ties to corporate infrastructure.
The ones who still are holding on to IE 6/8, XP, and Office 2k3. College students or home users will not see that much improvement. Also Neowin mentioned MS is killing both Vista and XP support with Office 2013. This office suite is aimed to get those corporations dragging their feet with Windows 7.
Anyone however believes in 100% security will always be a victim of a hack. Always store personal information knowing that somebody can get to it.
Inexcusable!
Any bank that would get robbed that has little to no security should be grilled the same way. Nothing is ever secure so its ok there was no alarm in the safe etc. This reminded me why I no longer use Yahoo anymore and why the company is dying. I used to somewhat feel sorry for them as Google was overated with a marketing swing but it shows poor leadership and management.
An example is YahooChat which I used to use over a decade ago. Then porn spammers came in and bombed you every 3 minutes with check out my titties and this scared every human away to the point where only porn spam bots were in there. There are teen and kid chat rooms where this happened too! People should be in jail for this as this is now pedophilia. Did Yahoo even care? No. for the hell of it 3 years ago I came back to Yahoo chat and the problem was still not fixed and even worse where I would be spammed every 30 seconds. No human is left anymore.
Now comes YahooIM which I still use, but not with a Yahoo client. I get these strange names each time I log in from Digsby by of course my Yahoo account requesting to be my friend. Same porn spammers. I just do not add anyone unless I they have emailed me and let me know ahead of time because every few hours a spammer will come on. Did Yahoo fix it? No.
Evern wonder why Skype is so popular as an IM? Now you know why.
Yahoo lost to Google and Bing. DId Yahoo fix it? No.
If you use Firefox and have YahooMail opened in one tab and browse porn in the other tab your yahoo email will randomly start sending out spam to people. Hairyfeet noticed that too. Did Yahoo fix it? no. ... I wont waste any more slashdotters time other to say stop giving them excuses for their incompetent management and employees. They are incompetent and any company worth as much as Yahoo should have a dedicated security team. There are more issues I wont discuss but only old people whose default homepage has not been changed still use it. The company is dying right now deservingly so and it will probably be gone in a couple years. Nobody seems to care or take their product seriously. It is no surprise they only got off their ass when it hit the news. Yahoo is terrible
Workplaces should actually be the least problematic. You can dictate what version of IE people are using, and at this point any responsible IT department REALLY should have a migration plan in place for getting rid of any legacy XP boxes.
Heck, if a workplace hasn't already moved to 7 by now - they've got bigger issues than worrying about jQuery.
Many are not. Even if they did switch to Windows 7 it comes with IE 8 and corporations paranoid and scared from the IE 6 experience will also lock that browser from being upgraded too and refuse to upgrade until 2019.
XP is also an outdated insecure pile, which needs to go as badly as IE 6.
Agreed. I view this not as an IE problem but an XP one. Which OS runs these dinosaurs? While the dinosaur OS which is XP. Get rid of that and old IE goes away. However, IE 8 wont sadly as it comes with Windows 7 and many corps still believe in locking browser versions down are now locked to IE 8 as they were with IE 6.
I am not the only one who has noticed it.
Basically you do not need METRO at all to experience. Go open IE and then do fullscreen at www.hotmail.com and that is it. It is not even an app more than a container. The news app sucks on Metro as well but not quite as badly.
It really is bare knuckles with fullscreen IE 10 instances. iOS got it right with its version of apps having toolbars, tabs, and other features. The safari for my dad's ipad is identical to the desktop version except for a few menu items.
Well a corporations job is to make money. Its moral and ethical guidelines is to increase shareholder wealth on a quarterly basis by constantly raising the share price.
It does not serve them well if some companies get hurt with no internet access and it is stealing from them otherwise. Liability is real as older computers without updates typically are corporate owned systems in places like managerial offices and other places where they can't be cleaned easily without a local IT staff. They could lose money in the process and blame megatelecom for the losses. They would win too as the FBI warned the ISPs about this and used their help sadly so it is foreseen and a acknowledged responsibility.
Keep both the users and shareholders happy is the game and for people who need real help to report things like outages. I wish I could yank the cords but you are talking about other people's property too and what gives us to right to dictate? Even if we are right it is another angle.
Are you going to pay them for the calls that are going to be ringing off the hook! My guess is the phone system will be so overloaded it would probably crash and prevent legitimate calls from coming through.
Are you going to pay their legal fees when business users sue due to lost income? Yes it was both forseen and the ISP has a duty of care, and has even excersized this supporting its users. A lawyer would be drooling if you said fuck it and cut the cord.
It is a business decision and not a moral or philosophical one.
I have to support a lot for a gov site. I don't know what your corporate policy may be, but clients start getting /really/ flustered when I show them the pricing structure for IE support...
I'm willing to go back to IE5, but nobody's ever taken me up on what that would cost. IE7 is an extra 20% on /all/ development costs (plus features being removed or replaced with crippleware) and IE6 is 50% beyond that.
Some of those numbers are to keep up with training on new technologies while having to support relics.
Now, there's a lot of infrastructure and systems in place to try to make this work -- but it's all stuff that takes real time for me to learn, write up, troubleshoot. It slows down debugging, makes the libraries slower, and basically results in horribly 'forked' applications. Or flash.
I realize a boss is a boss is a boss and can say anything they want. But have you tried giving yours an itemized timesheet where they see that "IE6 support constitutes 35% of the total cost of the project" ? Or that "making this little circle draw right here in IE7 actually slows the application by 5000%, and while you can fix it, the resulting fork has tripled your code base and made your 5 minute test suite take an hour?
At a certain point, your /boss/ will start billing IT for refusing to install firefox or chrome, even if it's just for your web app.
At an old job our web app actually got people off of IE5 when the CEO of a fortune 500 dragged their CIO into their office and told them to find a way to upgrade, get firefox installed for an entire department, or resign. Now, that company didn't bill extra for old support (they should have). We just didn't have the resources to get our application working in IE5 (or I wasn't good enough, same thing).
The thing is, your time is probably cheaper than those desktop upgrades. Because as an employee, they think of you as a black-box that gets-the-job-done-per-month. You need to present IE6 (and 7, and 8, and probably 9 for the lack of webgl) as an unecessary operational expense. Just like some apocryphal mainframes in a modern bank where 100 meg hard drives cost thousands to replace, but they still need that old COBOL reporting system from the 60's... IE6 is a liability and a threat to your mission success.
I am creating the startup and I am my own boss. :-). I need vendors and manufacturer support. My plan is to make it simple and probably not bother with IE 6 at all since most places use it for intranet apps. I can not find any good links or books on IE 7 hacks so I use IE 6 ones (though IE 7 is at least aware of the correct box model) so I might as well support it. Sigh
Google was instrumental in stopping IE 6 and 7 in late 2009. Hell 1/5 of the webs traffic was IE 6 in the US (not China) until Youtube, gmail, and others put notices that we wont support your browser anymore.
It worked very well. That and advertisements for Chrome helped too for clueless users who did not know where to get a better browser as statistics show the majority of new Chrome users are former IE users and not FF.
Business will upgrade when people stop supporting it. They left DOS behind, Win 16 apps behind, and Netscape intranet software behind too. If enough people stop supporting it they will leave. It is the opposite of software being sold RIGHT NOW in 2012 that still requires XP and even IE 8 keeps these guys locked in. Not everyone is big like google and yes, they lost some Google Doc accounts to Office 365 for their refusal of IE 7 support, but it works.
People are ignorant and if something works fine and developers take external costs and time to themselves for free they will never leave. Have the cool CSS 3 sites only work in IE 9 or later and people will eventually upgrade.
Not the statistics I see on statcounter for the US. China is an outliner that gives a false impression on netmarketshare/appliances etc because they only run pirated software over there. Unless you make Mandrin websites that shouldn't matter.
Windows 7 in the US and Europe already hit 50% and XP is dying fast. There were barely be double digit marketshare by the end of next year. It is time to move on and start supporting newer standards. Look at this way? The iphone came out in 2007 with css and html 5 support for its apps. That was 5 years ago and we still have these issues because it is so far behind and it is common that we should be implementing css 3 and html 5 and use JIT javascript engines to not leave these users behind, but the corps will make us use IE 8 until 2020 if they can.
Browsers should be upgraded frequently like Windows Update. If developers stop supporting like they did with 16 bit Win 3.x apps, dos, netscape, the corps move on. If not we still would be using Windows 3.1 with Netscape 4.7 today. Why? It works fine!
IE 8 in the US already drops down to 11% markethsare on the weekends according to www.gstatcounter.com! It is on its way out and it is time people moved iwth the times.
Issue I have with conditional comments is the bloated javascript libraries are still loaded and now they are bloated by 2x, even if they are ignored by the browser. IE 6 crashes with too much javascript.
For example in IE 6 I can load msnbc.com fine and it still is compatible. But it will freeze up randomly when these annoying social media scripts start up. I have to alt tab and kill it and use a custom hosts file for it to even load half the time.
The costs add up with ISPs now putting in caps and raising bandwidth rates as their competitors die off. 2 megs a view is very expensive and not friendly to those still on dial up vs half that without jquery ... especially 2 jqueries loading up.
So in essence I am in favor of 2.0 but will not use it for awhile for these reasons. If old IE finally dies out by 2014 then I will upgrade. I have a feeling the corporations are terrified of new browsers after IE 6 hell and will stay with 8 until 2020 until developers stop supporting IE 8. It is already becoming the new IE 6 of this decade and MS now has IE on an annual release trek so IE 18 will be out by then.
Too bad I am working on a corporate oriented site. I can imagine IE 6 and 7 will be over 50% usage by the biggest customers who spend the most, even if they are a small minority overall.
I should not have to be reading books on IE 6 hacks in 2012.
I hate old IE versions as much as every other web developer, but I don't think this is the right way to go yet. One of the main reasons most developers love jQuery is because it allows them to forget about IE quirks and lack of compliance, and just write code. I think it would be better if they continued to support IE in their main branch, but also offer a "lite" version without IE support.
Knet, why don't you see 16 bit Windows 3.x apps anymore? Why did windows95 not fail? Why did XP not fail?
The answer is developers said enough is enough and stopped porting to ancient standards. XP should have died years ago and IE 6 will keep staying as long as people think their platforms are fine. Look it runs everything!
Corporations and cheapskates are setting the standard locked forever and IE 8 is 3 years old. But it is what IE 6 should have been and was still far behind. It is time to move on and I am not saying this for the sake of change for something that works.
Mobile devices are demanding HTML 5 and CSS 3 with JIT javascript engines. This legacy shit is a pain in the ass and moves the external costs to the developers. Maybe if internet growth was still desktop oriented but its not. It is a pain to write 2 different websites.Worse Windows 7 comes with IE 8 so these users who do leave XP by 2014 will probably lock their corporate desktops to it until 2020 while we STILL WAIT for iphone 2007 functionality. That is ridiculous.
Sadly. Damn IE slowing down even non-IE users!
Even more sadly, this is not news. IE has been effectively sabotaging the non-IE community for years. The need to specifically code for IE6 and IE7 due to their crappy compliance with web standards has swallowed immense amounts of global developer effort, which could otherwise have been invested in improving the interwebs for everyone.
Just die already.
You Cheesecake23 have been misled by a vocal minority!
I dunno.
I have never seen a woman who just wants some man to get in her pants with no emotional attachment. It makes sense to me biologically if the husband is into another chick he will devote his resources into her and not the original woman or the kid so rich would be important but not to detriment of no relationship. High income earners have just as high divorce rates where 70% are initiated by women. Doctors are especially high bceause they spend too much time at work making money and not spending time with them. The divorce rate is 70%. I am quoting stuff too from my exwife who we split due to financial issues. But she told me time was important with her as she was once married to a guy with more money but she was unhappy.
I think like that creepy gf video above I would not care how hot she is if she turned into that! The same thing could apply to rich guys who are unavailable. Women are much more social than we are. Perhaps someone female could reply? ... this is slashdot who am i kidding?
Well I trust girlintraining more because she is an actual female.
Sure they are people like men, but generally women think more like each other than us by a longsheet. There are deep wiring that changes the subconcious in both men and women defined by our past roles wether we like it or not.
A woman will always pick a man who loves them and that is true. A rich man is a great provider so she can take care of a baby yes, but it wont mean jack shit if he doesn't love her and bang some other chick and focus on her and her baby instead.
Lets look at it from a woman's point of view that we only like supermodels and chicks that are pretty? It is true in general that we like a pretty hot smoking chick younger than us that we can bone every night. But if this hot smoking babe that you want ends up like this RUN FOR THE DOOR!
I can see a sensible woman doing the same thing with a guy with money and a nice career who has potential, then is all apeshit or doesn't listen nor respect her. Men complain they do not shut up, women complain they do not listen and would be the equilivant if being ignored. Again, people are people and are different but there are similiarities with the underlined wiring.
Go google ifixit.com? The batteries are for older macbooks. They are irreplacable on the new ones.
It took $200,000 worth of equipment to crack the cert key according to www.arstechnica.com.
The government does have super computers as well and many that are listed in the top 500 are classified. I wonder how long it would take a modern cray or a cluster of 1,000 computers to crack a 2048 cert? It does sound like something the government would not mind spending.
I doubt the russian mobfia would invest that much but maybe they can afford to do just that for a single piece of malware that will be useless once AV software detects it. It sounds too risk and far fetched
Because we buy them and not lease them. Only rich people with supperior credit can lease anyway and the bottom 80% of us have to buy. Leasing is a terrible deal too unless you are filthy rich and do not care about money.
XP users are moaning if you go to places like www.wired.com and forbes.com thinking they are entitled to keep their 8 year pcs working with comments like "...I get to decide to leave Xp thank you very much! ..". You do not throw out your fridge after 10 years it still works?
Macs are an expensive investment so it should be logical to expect more life out of them. Apple is getting greedy and will push users away with this as it forgets about the customers needs too. In a perfect economy both the customer and the seller reach an equilibrium that satisfies both their needs in a compromise. Apple is taking the ball and telling them to go home.
If you are paying professional quality prices than it better as hell last a long time supported. SCADA embedded systems are supported 10 years min! Why? They cost $20,000 and up. Same is true for servers that expensive.
Apple has shown they prefer you to throw out your macbook if you need a new battery and not care how much you paid. I find this unacceptable at that price point.
Most business environments I have seen still use 2004 era hardware with IE 6 half upgraded to IE 8 and XP stil with 512 megs of ram with no plans to trash them until 2014.
Running FF 3.6 under these contraints is quite fun ... before Mozilla tackled the ram issue in more modern releases.
I guess I have the opposite tasts but using Windows fonts instead of the default makes them bolder and a little blurrier to me.
Anyway Linux disabled font hinting due to patents from Apple. It is one of the reasons I stopped using it. There was a hack where you could enable it yourself and compile it by hand running commands under Ubuntu. No joke I am serious as there is no binary version of font hinting fully as it is crippled. I think Fedora might have it without a custom compiling X by yourself.
That was a few years ago and I found the custom patches no longer worked with the more modern sources. It was rediculous.
And they were wrong. XP should have died a long time ago. Vista should be dead now too.
Yeah no kidding.
It is the bane of web developers who can't use CSS 3 and even css 2.1 features like curved boxes because these XP users still use old IE. Though, IE 6 is about dead on the web thank god which is truly a nightmare.
IT support guys like me do not even have the dialogue boxes memorized on XP anymore. They are security risk to the users and XP really does suck on newer SSDs with no trim support and scaling on anything more than 2 cpus. It pages like a mofo which ruins the drives on ... ok enough is enough about ranting.
But I see the corporate view too. They are just haning on since 2009 not to layoff workers in weak demand and you are asking them to replace something that works fine for no good reason?? More up to date wont cut it when you have targets to meet to satisfy shareholders, and lights to keep on with weak demand.
At watching all those experiencing nerd rage that Microsoft is ending XP support after a mere 14 years, and how they are so angry at Microsoft they are going to buy a Mac next rather than upgrade to Windows 7. Then we read stuff like this.
Only a little nerd rage here on slashdot from XP loyalists, but wired.com and CIO magazine's website was filled with them and they were somewhat serious about using a Mac next to avoid planned obscelence in their minds.