Oh, I have no problem. I love the way Linux (GNOME or KDE) organizes things. I was mainly replying to the parent poster because he tried to find applications on the command line. There is really is quite daunting to guess what you actually need.
I wouldn't even consider trying it with under 2Gig, but XP-SP2 runs fine with 512Meg. I ran a P-III 600MHz laptop with 512Meg RAM for a very long time. It was great for normal tasks (no games, evidently). OpenOffice.org, iTunes, etc... I even ran Eclipse for small projects. It all worked and was snappy enough. (Of course this was with themes disabled) I had to replace the machine, but only because it physically fell apart. I was lucky. That was in January and the machines that were merely "Vista Capable" were on sale. Preloaded with XP MCE. You bet, I bought one. As such, Vista is very far into the future for me. (I tend to keep PCs 3 to 5 years, longer if possible and useful)
Actually, my dad runs XP on a P-III 733MHz laptop with 512Meg RAM. To my surprise he opted for buying new batteries instead of investing in a new laptop. So, he's good for yet another couple of years on that machine.
Kid wants a computer for Christmas. Grandma wants to please kiddo, buys a PC because they're all the same to her and decides upon the deal '499$ with 17"LCD, mouse, keyboard and inkjet printer'. The salesman says "it's great for doing homework". Grandma sees value in that statement. Grandma doesn't shop at Dell.
Those are the people that buy such systems....
Now perhaps a PC is a bit exaggerated for a Christmas present as I find it "too much", but around here, kids do their first communion and they gets lots and lots and lots of presents. A PC is usually on the list... I've seen kids getting such PCs. (I've also seen kids that got spanking brand new MacBook Pros, but that is entirely another story)
Now, I also would buy such a system to run as a Linux server.... but that's me;-)
Every GOD DAMNED vendor in the world has their own fuckin' menu! Instead of programs grouped by function or task
It is also one of my pet gripes. However, it isn't hard to change on your machine. I "fix" this by having task oriented folders. One thing that is related to this problem: why does the uninstaller, the readme, the helpfile require an entry in the start menu? That makes no sense! (I also think it brought us the aberration known as "Personalized Menus") The only one that may perhaps be seen as "useful" is the helpfile and that one needs to be accessible from the application by pressing F1.
Fun fact: I sometimes reinstall Windows machines for friends and family. I usually load them with opensource software and I organize the start menu "my way". You wouldn't believe how many people came back and said "the start menu makes so much more sense, but I installed $APPLICATION and I want that in the 'Applications' menu too instead of $VENDOR"
Don't you also find it funny that Microsoft applications, like Office, get the privilege of being installed in the "root" of the start menu? (Perhaps that changes, I haven't installed MS Office in ages...)
I swear last week I had to resort to using yum search to figure out just which k* program was a no-frills command line picture viewer because doing an ls/usr/bin/k* gave me a ton of stuff I had no clue what was for
The main problem with Linux is that many distros seem to follow the adage "choice is good, let the user choose". That is all fine and dandy, but the programs have cryptic names. It pisses me off too. However, a Linux system setup with only one application for each task and a menu that says "Office" - "Word Processor" is clear. The "real" program name needs to be hidden, of course. Of course this assumes a well setup Linux. I'm still trying to do it with my choices, but it's hard. For example Ubuntu insists on keeping Evolution. I want Thunderbird. Alas, even after removing/changing many references to Evolution, I can still launch it by clicking on the calendar. I don't want that: it's too easy for a normal user to get confused by that.
So do I. As such, I don't complain and install PuTTY and it'll be there for me next time I need to help them. Perhaps they'll even have a use for it.
I tend to be IT in most companies.
So, if you're IT, and as such control what the end-user gets on the desktop, why is telnet client not in your default image? Just because you don't like it? It's your job to provide the tools, you are clearly not doing your job as such. If you're not IT (I have the impression you are in both roles, which is possible) you have to ask the people responsible for the deployments. If it's small business, it's highly unlikely that the machines are locked down hard.
Vista doesn't come with telnet.
I am not defending Vista here. Not at all. My main point was to provide you with a solution, and while it is more work, at least you can walk up to a Vista machine, download putty and do your work. You might carry it around on an USB stick, or dump it on a shared drive at work. A multitude of ways to make your life easier are available, but you are ignoring them for whatever reason. You just dissed my solution because "it's too much work".
preventing you from running applications that didn't come with the system or was not installed by them.
I have not much experience with Vista, but PuTTY runs completely in userspace. You don't need to install it, it just need to be on a drive you can access. Of course, if that drive is set to "non-executable" you're fucked, but I haven't seen such a setup in ages. A limited user can run PuTTY from my documents, no questions asked. At least in Win NT 4.0, Win2k and WinXP you had that possibility. (Of course, someone really good at locking down Windows can make your life hard, but I have rarely such beasts)
In order for that to work, PuTTY needs to be in the PATH.
I said so in my post. Alternatively, dump the exe in system32. Works too.
You're miss understanding. I have no problem on my own machine, I am talking about when using other computers, it is still a lot more work than just typing 'telnet bbs.quickfox.net' in a cmd window.
I understood that completely fine. I just gave you a solution.... You might not like the solution, but a solution is better than "Fuck, I can't do it. Poor me..."
When I need to quickly debug something for a coworker, friend, whatever.
I say: you're running Vista... I can't help you. That is a perfectly fine answer, and if it's a coworker, you'll have to contact IT and say that they deploy a telnet client (whichever one you like, if you really hate PuTTY). It's a tool for your work, it needs to be available.
Meh...
That's exactly how I felt about your complaints of the missing telnet client.
A GUI? Are you serious? I must have been dreaming when I typed "putty telnet://bbs.quickfox.net" or even "putty -telnet bbs.quickfox.net". I'm pretty sure you'll be able to associate PuTTY with the telnet URL handler. "pscp" is very nifty too. Of course, I do have PuTTY "Installed", which means, that I have it in my Program Files directory and my PATH includes its location. Of course, installing was as easy as unzipping it where I wanted it (and setting said path).
I have it on my USB key too... Yes, I understand it's annoying to download a 444KByte program... It takes soooooooo long.
I think they removed it because they considered it a "security hazard". My guess is as good as yours... I do have to admit, that I occasionally use telnet to test if a certain port reacts, but PuTTY can also do it. I just need to wrap my mind in actually using it on the command line.
Vista is the only OS in the world where even root != root
And you find that somehow, ehm, GOOD? I personally think of my computer as mine and I sure would like to have full control over it. If even root (or Administrator in the Windows world) cannot manage everything on the system, who can?
I am really mad they removed telnet from the default install.
I'm sure you know this, but PuTTY does telnet too. Since you probably have it installed already, why not use that? It's better than the command line telnet that came with XP anyway.
The stereotype for each OS is well known: Mac OS X is elegant, easy-to-use, and intuitive, while Ubuntu is stable, secure, and getting better all the time.
Well, I'd say that Ubuntu is elegant, easy-to-use and intuitve, while Mac OS X is stable, secure and getting better all the time.
I don't want to troll... But both visions are true....
Try going to a number of so-called 'free' countries in Europe, like say, Germany. Or France. Or Great Britain
Except for Great Britain, I'm pretty sure: No. The reason? I'm a EU citizen and can go wherever I please. Borders are open. I want to go to I can drive from Southern Portugal to Denmark without getting checked anywhere. A bit like I could drive from New York to Los Angeles. I specifically avoid taking a ferry because your ID would be checked there, hence also my Britain proviso. Hmmm, actually, last time I drove to Great Britain, I don't remember showing my ID, but my memory might be failing me.
Of course, for you as an American, I wouldn't know. Yes, the probably have a database somewhere. However laws about personal data storage are extremely strict here and those laws also apply to you. Ain't that great?
Finally, I do know that a US citizen entering the EU doesn't have as much trouble as a EU citizen entering the US.
legitimate visitors gradually diminishes towards zero
Well, for that, you'd actually need to fix the dollar first. The US is a great destination for Europeans right now, because the exchange rate is heavily into our favour.
I went to the US a few years ago, actually in May 2002 and November 2002. I was stopped at every single checkpoint and searched. Luckily not the cavity version, but it was very very annoying. I do not look arabic (blonde, I could pass for a Nazi, I guess), had a valid passport, etc... I suspects, it's because I was single back then. A single male entering the US, must be a terrarrrist.
My wife wants to go to the US next summer, and I told her I was against it because my previous experiences. It would have been a solid no, but the dollar is so cheap that it would turn out to be a cheap vacation. I'm not happy to go through all the bureaucracy, but a cheap vacation might be worth it.
For our honeymoon we went to China, and I have to tell you: getting into China was easier than getting into the US. The only inconvenience was that I had to ask a visa in advance and in the US I don't need to ask one. I get a tourist visa when entering the country. (Hmmm, now that I think of it, the China stamp in our passports might not come over positively *sigh*)
Are there still people that don't know about QTFairUse? All informed people by now buy only "Plus" songs or stick to CDs. I've got a co-worker that got heavily burned by DRM, and I explained him what to do in order to avoid lock in. The Zune plays AAC, by the way. Just not protected AAC.
I linked to the damned license, you dolt! It isn't GPL and you can bet that a very popular application would get a Debian package maintainer. Heck, I'd volunteer if it were GPL.
I frankly couldn't care less. I had a PS2, and gave it with over 15 games to my sister. I have a PSP and have barely the time to play. I guess I became too old for games;-)
If you're saving for a house, 250€ on a toy is something you think twice about.
It does make me long for the days one could run his own email server. Now, I have to pipe everything from my mailserver (on a DSL line) over my ISPs server. Not terribly bad, but extra work for me. If I don't do that, I get marked as SPAM for sure and even doing that I sometimes get marked as spam for some really strange reason.
Yup, I use graylisting too... I don't need any other spam filter, whatever comes through is handled by thunderbird and it really isn't much. Graylisting is great....
The have Wii boxes here in the supermarket... In shrinkwrap. A whole pile 249€. Amost bought one, but I still think of 249€ as much money. Of course, I don't live in the US. Luxembourg, Europe... Perhaps we got a big delivery by accident.
Re:Asimov did say it first, and not just in fictio
on
Earth's Moon is a Rarity
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Ehm, no, I don't live in the UK... Continental Europe, though. That said, this was really standard stuff in my high school and I can guarantee you that the calculation I did here was on the curriculum. Actually, this together with Keplers laws was often illustrated with planets.
Sure, that's over 15 years ago. I guess, the curricula have been dumbed down by now.
This *is* basic physics and goes hand in hand with F=m*a. In this special case F=m*g, and you guessed that I actually calculated g for both Earth and The Moon! Since m2 was 1kg F=g in this case. Frankly, I can't imagine doing F=m*g without explaining where the g in that formula comes from. Hence you automatically come to F=(G*m1*m2)/r^2.
I'm not an amateur physicist, nor an amateur astronomer. I'm a mere dumb computer scientist, remembering what he had in school (and double-checking with wikipedia because frankly, I didn't know the value of G by heart anymore)
Oh, and finally, I just *asked* if he was a troll. I assumed he his innocence or he wouldn't have gotten the detailed reply that I gave.
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Oh, I have no problem. I love the way Linux (GNOME or KDE) organizes things. I was mainly replying to the parent poster because he tried to find applications on the command line. There is really is quite daunting to guess what you actually need.
I wouldn't even consider trying it with under 2Gig, but XP-SP2 runs fine with 512Meg.
I ran a P-III 600MHz laptop with 512Meg RAM for a very long time. It was great for normal tasks (no games, evidently). OpenOffice.org, iTunes, etc... I even ran Eclipse for small projects. It all worked and was snappy enough. (Of course this was with themes disabled) I had to replace the machine, but only because it physically fell apart. I was lucky. That was in January and the machines that were merely "Vista Capable" were on sale. Preloaded with XP MCE. You bet, I bought one. As such, Vista is very far into the future for me. (I tend to keep PCs 3 to 5 years, longer if possible and useful)
Actually, my dad runs XP on a P-III 733MHz laptop with 512Meg RAM. To my surprise he opted for buying new batteries instead of investing in a new laptop. So, he's good for yet another couple of years on that machine.
Kid wants a computer for Christmas. Grandma wants to please kiddo, buys a PC because they're all the same to her and decides upon the deal '499$ with 17"LCD, mouse, keyboard and inkjet printer'. The salesman says "it's great for doing homework". Grandma sees value in that statement. Grandma doesn't shop at Dell.
Those are the people that buy such systems....
Now perhaps a PC is a bit exaggerated for a Christmas present as I find it "too much", but around here, kids do their first communion and they gets lots and lots and lots of presents. A PC is usually on the list... I've seen kids getting such PCs. (I've also seen kids that got spanking brand new MacBook Pros, but that is entirely another story)
Now, I also would buy such a system to run as a Linux server.... but that's me ;-)
Fun fact: I sometimes reinstall Windows machines for friends and family. I usually load them with opensource software and I organize the start menu "my way". You wouldn't believe how many people came back and said "the start menu makes so much more sense, but I installed $APPLICATION and I want that in the 'Applications' menu too instead of $VENDOR"
Don't you also find it funny that Microsoft applications, like Office, get the privilege of being installed in the "root" of the start menu? (Perhaps that changes, I haven't installed MS Office in ages...)
The main problem with Linux is that many distros seem to follow the adage "choice is good, let the user choose". That is all fine and dandy, but the programs have cryptic names. It pisses me off too. However, a Linux system setup with only one application for each task and a menu that says "Office" - "Word Processor" is clear. The "real" program name needs to be hidden, of course. Of course this assumes a well setup Linux. I'm still trying to do it with my choices, but it's hard. For example Ubuntu insists on keeping Evolution. I want Thunderbird. Alas, even after removing/changing many references to Evolution, I can still launch it by clicking on the calendar. I don't want that: it's too easy for a normal user to get confused by that.
I'd love that distro creators read "The Paradox of Choice, Why more is less" by Barry Schwartz... Or at least Watch this video
That said, it's a shame that PAE wasn't included in Vista, but do realise that PAE is pretty much a hack. Going full 64-bit is the right way to go.
A GUI? Are you serious? I must have been dreaming when I typed "putty telnet://bbs.quickfox.net" or even "putty -telnet bbs.quickfox.net". I'm pretty sure you'll be able to associate PuTTY with the telnet URL handler. "pscp" is very nifty too. Of course, I do have PuTTY "Installed", which means, that I have it in my Program Files directory and my PATH includes its location. Of course, installing was as easy as unzipping it where I wanted it (and setting said path).
I have it on my USB key too... Yes, I understand it's annoying to download a 444KByte program... It takes soooooooo long.
I think they removed it because they considered it a "security hazard". My guess is as good as yours... I do have to admit, that I occasionally use telnet to test if a certain port reacts, but PuTTY can also do it. I just need to wrap my mind in actually using it on the command line.
You do understand this was an allegory? Don't you?
The stereotype for each OS is well known: Mac OS X is elegant, easy-to-use, and intuitive, while Ubuntu is stable, secure, and getting better all the time.
Well, I'd say that Ubuntu is elegant, easy-to-use and intuitve, while Mac OS X is stable, secure and getting better all the time.
I don't want to troll... But both visions are true....
It is +5.... So... Well... Ehm, don't mod this one down... My poor Karma! ;-)
Bad Astonomy readers are already up to date. It's an error in composition of the picture. Nothing less, nothing more.
Try going to a number of so-called 'free' countries in Europe, like say, Germany. Or France. Or Great Britain
Except for Great Britain, I'm pretty sure: No. The reason? I'm a EU citizen and can go wherever I please. Borders are open. I want to go to I can drive from Southern Portugal to Denmark without getting checked anywhere. A bit like I could drive from New York to Los Angeles. I specifically avoid taking a ferry because your ID would be checked there, hence also my Britain proviso. Hmmm, actually, last time I drove to Great Britain, I don't remember showing my ID, but my memory might be failing me.
Of course, for you as an American, I wouldn't know. Yes, the probably have a database somewhere. However laws about personal data storage are extremely strict here and those laws also apply to you. Ain't that great?
Finally, I do know that a US citizen entering the EU doesn't have as much trouble as a EU citizen entering the US.
legitimate visitors gradually diminishes towards zero
Well, for that, you'd actually need to fix the dollar first. The US is a great destination for Europeans right now, because the exchange rate is heavily into our favour.
I went to the US a few years ago, actually in May 2002 and November 2002. I was stopped at every single checkpoint and searched. Luckily not the cavity version, but it was very very annoying. I do not look arabic (blonde, I could pass for a Nazi, I guess), had a valid passport, etc... I suspects, it's because I was single back then. A single male entering the US, must be a terrarrrist.
My wife wants to go to the US next summer, and I told her I was against it because my previous experiences. It would have been a solid no, but the dollar is so cheap that it would turn out to be a cheap vacation. I'm not happy to go through all the bureaucracy, but a cheap vacation might be worth it.
For our honeymoon we went to China, and I have to tell you: getting into China was easier than getting into the US. The only inconvenience was that I had to ask a visa in advance and in the US I don't need to ask one. I get a tourist visa when entering the country. (Hmmm, now that I think of it, the China stamp in our passports might not come over positively *sigh*)
Are there still people that don't know about QTFairUse? All informed people by now buy only "Plus" songs or stick to CDs. I've got a co-worker that got heavily burned by DRM, and I explained him what to do in order to avoid lock in. The Zune plays AAC, by the way. Just not protected AAC.
I linked to the damned license, you dolt! It isn't GPL and you can bet that a very popular application would get a Debian package maintainer. Heck, I'd volunteer if it were GPL.
Except Truecrypt ain't GPL... Otherwhise I'd be able to get it with an apt-get. I can't...
I do use Truecrypt on Windows, but I know it's limited to mainly Windows. The Linux support is nice, but it doesn't even have all features.
I frankly couldn't care less. I had a PS2, and gave it with over 15 games to my sister. I have a PSP and have barely the time to play. I guess I became too old for games ;-)
If you're saving for a house, 250€ on a toy is something you think twice about.
It does make me long for the days one could run his own email server. Now, I have to pipe everything from my mailserver (on a DSL line) over my ISPs server. Not terribly bad, but extra work for me. If I don't do that, I get marked as SPAM for sure and even doing that I sometimes get marked as spam for some really strange reason.
Yup, I use graylisting too... I don't need any other spam filter, whatever comes through is handled by thunderbird and it really isn't much. Graylisting is great....
The have Wii boxes here in the supermarket... In shrinkwrap. A whole pile 249€. Amost bought one, but I still think of 249€ as much money. Of course, I don't live in the US. Luxembourg, Europe... Perhaps we got a big delivery by accident.
Ehm, no, I don't live in the UK... Continental Europe, though. That said, this was really standard stuff in my high school and I can guarantee you that the calculation I did here was on the curriculum. Actually, this together with Keplers laws was often illustrated with planets.
Sure, that's over 15 years ago. I guess, the curricula have been dumbed down by now.
This *is* basic physics and goes hand in hand with F=m*a. In this special case F=m*g, and you guessed that I actually calculated g for both Earth and The Moon! Since m2 was 1kg F=g in this case. Frankly, I can't imagine doing F=m*g without explaining where the g in that formula comes from. Hence you automatically come to F=(G*m1*m2)/r^2.
I'm not an amateur physicist, nor an amateur astronomer. I'm a mere dumb computer scientist, remembering what he had in school (and double-checking with wikipedia because frankly, I didn't know the value of G by heart anymore)
Oh, and finally, I just *asked* if he was a troll. I assumed he his innocence or he wouldn't have gotten the detailed reply that I gave.
Besides, aren't we supposed to be Nerds???