I guess whether you think it's "funny" vs. "flamebait" depends on your perspective. Slashdot does have a Linux bias. Lighten up.
Re:Linux advocacy: VR3 framework for the Desktop?
on
Agenda, Not Hidden
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· Score: 3
What are you talking about? Isn't this what packages are for? Is it really that hard to type "dpkg -i foo.deb" (or whatever the rpm equivalent is)? Or use a GUI frontend that does the equivalent?
YES
Look - yes, that's too hard! Newbies do not want to memorize command line arguments! What's a 'package' anyway?
Do you see my point? If the user says it's too hard, it's TOO HARD. You, as a geek, have trouble understanding why the CLI command above is too hard. GUESS WHAT - the non geeks have trouble understanding why we can't make it clear that you aren't making it easy enough!
Thanks for the reply. Glad to know I'm not the only one so bothered by this. Unfortunately, you and I discussing it here won't change much:(
Re:Linux advocacy: VR3 framework for the Desktop?
on
Agenda, Not Hidden
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· Score: 2
One problem is that developer's won't get off their high horse when it comes to interface.
Unfortunately, many programmers figure that if it's good enough for them, it should be good enough for everyone. If the user can't figure it out, tough.
This is a big limiting factor in trying to put Linux on the desktop.
The fact is, if the people say it's too hard, it is too hard! But don't say it too loud, or you're a "troll".
I realize there is a market for such a thing among geeks, for who it's useful to have a PDA that can ssh, telnet, x sessions, command line, etc.
But can geeks buy enough of these handhelds to keep the company in business?
99% of the market for PDAs is to people who have never used Linux. They won't tolerate a PDA whose interface sucks. (witness the success of Palm over PocketPC).
Like desktop Linux mentioned earlier today, this PDA will stink for the common man due to poor interface. This thing will likely go the way of Indrema, unfortunately.
I don't think there's any denying that Linux isn't ready for the desktop.
The question is, why? Why hasn't it happened? I think one of the big reasons is user friendliness.
Is it possible that the vast majority of people developing Linux are programmers, and very few are writers, artists, designers (user interface people)? Since it's built by programmers, it suits them just fine, but others struggle with Linux because little emphasis is placed on usability. Programmers are accountable only to other programmers.
How do you solve this problem? User interface people are accustomed to getting paid for their work, and seem unlikely (to me) to work on the UI and documentation for Linux for free.
Perhaps one of the larger companies, Redhat for example, could hire some usability people that could contribute. For example, when the Macintosh was created, there was a significant amount of time/money spent on design and usability. Will that ever happen for Linux?
See what I mean? Dare to suggest that Linux isn't easy enough, and you're a "troll".
Perfect example of the *nix elitist high horse.
Hey, don't worry, if it gets easier, I'm sure you'll still be able to tweak it to hell. But wake up and realize that more users (even newbies!) means more useful software for the Linux platform.
If you build it, they will come. But as of now, no one wants to build it.
Re:What can we do to stop this from happening agai
on
Mandrake Shakeup
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· Score: 1
Case in point of the "religous" modding down those who dare to say the emperor is naked - the parent post is modded down as "troll" for suggesting that perhaps the GPL might have flaws.
Mandrake, in my opinion, is the only company that has bothered to address the needs of the "entry level" Linux user. (It's still too hard, but that's another issue)
I sincerely hope they don't go under, who would take up the slack? They've contributed a lot in the way of GUI setup and configuration tools.
Sure enough, there were quite a few complaints on the macromedia newsgroups recently about not being able to reach macromedia.com.
Macromedia's EDGE newsletter is definitely not spam, and it's unfortunate that the MAPS people added them to the RBL without verifying that. It's a legitimate newsletter.
But they make some dumb business decisions. Their handheld with integrated wireless is now just $199! Great deal! I'm all over that.
Bad news is the service is like $45 a month! And it's not even real TCP/IP. No wonder they are in trouble. If it was $10 a month they would have millions of accounts. Yet another vendor completely pricing themselves out of the market.
Any country (India, Iran) which tries so hard to shield it's people from porn worries me. Look at the countries that are really uptight about such things - that's the kind of place I'd never want to live, since religion and government appear to be one and the same.
Do you want the basis of your government to be one specific religion?
Everyone has to learn to read and write because there is no easier, more efficient alternative. When we can all communicate telepathically, I am sure you'll find that some people are no longer bothered to read and write.
I don't want the "computer literate" to make a Linux picture book for me. But I find it highly ironic that many open source advocates like to bitch about how evil Microsoft is, their stuff sucks, why does everyone use it, and at the same time, not bothering to present any reasonable alternatives.
Currently, Linux is only an alternative to Microsoft if you are an advanced computer user. That's fine, but 95% of the computing population is not, and they currently have no alternative.
Can you install new programs in a way that is as simple as doubleclicking "setup.exe"? No.
I tried Mandrake. Look, Linux is great for it's purposes. But it's still too hard.
If the energy spent making fun of people that can't figure it out were put toward improving it, it would have eclipsed Macintosh for ease of use already.
Slashdot Mirror
(In addition, they don't incorporate Macrovision, either. Yay!)
And it isn't illegal here in the US, either. Why do people think that?
I guess whether you think it's "funny" vs. "flamebait" depends on your perspective. Slashdot does have a Linux bias. Lighten up.
YES
Look - yes, that's too hard! Newbies do not want to memorize command line arguments! What's a 'package' anyway?
Do you see my point? If the user says it's too hard, it's TOO HARD. You, as a geek, have trouble understanding why the CLI command above is too hard. GUESS WHAT - the non geeks have trouble understanding why we can't make it clear that you aren't making it easy enough!
Thanks for the reply. Glad to know I'm not the only one so bothered by this. Unfortunately, you and I discussing it here won't change much :(
Unfortunately, many programmers figure that if it's good enough for them, it should be good enough for everyone. If the user can't figure it out, tough.
This is a big limiting factor in trying to put Linux on the desktop.
The fact is, if the people say it's too hard, it is too hard! But don't say it too loud, or you're a "troll".
But can geeks buy enough of these handhelds to keep the company in business?
99% of the market for PDAs is to people who have never used Linux. They won't tolerate a PDA whose interface sucks. (witness the success of Palm over PocketPC).
Like desktop Linux mentioned earlier today, this PDA will stink for the common man due to poor interface. This thing will likely go the way of Indrema, unfortunately.
The question is, why? Why hasn't it happened? I think one of the big reasons is user friendliness.
Is it possible that the vast majority of people developing Linux are programmers, and very few are writers, artists, designers (user interface people)? Since it's built by programmers, it suits them just fine, but others struggle with Linux because little emphasis is placed on usability. Programmers are accountable only to other programmers.
How do you solve this problem? User interface people are accustomed to getting paid for their work, and seem unlikely (to me) to work on the UI and documentation for Linux for free.
Perhaps one of the larger companies, Redhat for example, could hire some usability people that could contribute. For example, when the Macintosh was created, there was a significant amount of time/money spent on design and usability. Will that ever happen for Linux?
Perfect example of the *nix elitist high horse.
Hey, don't worry, if it gets easier, I'm sure you'll still be able to tweak it to hell. But wake up and realize that more users (even newbies!) means more useful software for the Linux platform.
If you build it, they will come. But as of now, no one wants to build it.
Case in point of the "religous" modding down those who dare to say the emperor is naked - the parent post is modded down as "troll" for suggesting that perhaps the GPL might have flaws.
If this is the case, then why haven't many MS users switched over to something so easy?
That's just the problem. It isn't as easy. Anyone who tells you otherwise must be blind or just deluding themselves.
I sincerely hope they don't go under, who would take up the slack? They've contributed a lot in the way of GUI setup and configuration tools.
Macromedia's EDGE newsletter is definitely not spam, and it's unfortunate that the MAPS people added them to the RBL without verifying that. It's a legitimate newsletter.
As soon as I saw this, my girlfriend knew it too -I can never buy this, or my life is over!
Unfotunately, without the big label artists and the multiple lawsuits, I don't think they would have survived.
too bad you didn't load a spellcheck program.
Shoot, I wouldn't even mind if they charged by the byte. I don't mind paying by usage, as long as the rate is reasonable. It's not.
They sell a limited one for $25 as mentioned, but there is a data transfer limit of 150kb A MONTH. I could use that in a day. What a rip.
But they make some dumb business decisions. Their handheld with integrated wireless is now just $199! Great deal! I'm all over that.
Bad news is the service is like $45 a month! And it's not even real TCP/IP. No wonder they are in trouble. If it was $10 a month they would have millions of accounts. Yet another vendor completely pricing themselves out of the market.
Hold mah beer, 'n watch this!
Why is it modded down as offtopic? Seems ontopic to me.
Do you want the basis of your government to be one specific religion?
I don't want the "computer literate" to make a Linux picture book for me. But I find it highly ironic that many open source advocates like to bitch about how evil Microsoft is, their stuff sucks, why does everyone use it, and at the same time, not bothering to present any reasonable alternatives.
Currently, Linux is only an alternative to Microsoft if you are an advanced computer user. That's fine, but 95% of the computing population is not, and they currently have no alternative.
Both of these will be nothing compared to Indrema. Oh, wait.
I tried Mandrake. Look, Linux is great for it's purposes. But it's still too hard.
If the energy spent making fun of people that can't figure it out were put toward improving it, it would have eclipsed Macintosh for ease of use already.