these guys will never realize when it just doesn't make sense to do a project. aren't they the ones who started that gnome desktop years after the kde desktop because they didn't like the licensing terms? now that gnome (or some of it anyway) will be heavily using the M$.NET technologies. i guess as long as their code can be licensed GPL, it's ok. really guys, this HURD thing, i've been reading about it here on/. for a few years now, and i just looks like a the little project that wouldn't die. yeah, fresh ideas are a good thing and all, but my question to those HURD people would be, what exactly are the new/interesting features (stability , robustness, smp) that you'll be providing the "community"? and how do you plan to over come the challenges the "other" kernel guys have gone through in the last 10+ years? to throw a little sarcasm in: who knows, maybe _they'll_ accept that pre-emptable kernel patch someone submits. and maybe _they'll_ never have a release 1.15.dont_use_this_tar_ball release. maybe they just won't use virtual memory at all. (did you see what happened to the 2.4 linux series with that one?)
interesting point. is it better to donate $$ to something like the debian group who, as i understand it, are a non profit group which should be tax deductable? tho, with debian, the stable version is still running XFree 3.3.6 so I'm not sure that a donation really makes sense:).
i tried mandrake 8.1 and didn't like it really. there were some basic desktop features that didn't seem to be there that RH had. For instance, a basic install didn't put cdrom devices on the desktop. How are _new_ users suppose to know they can/have to add those? i guess donating $$ to a nonprofit org such as KDE or whatever tool you find usefull would be helpfull to all distros, and even those non linux guys). i've always wondered what someone like the kde project would do with donation money. i mean don't most of the developers (who make the product) work "for the love of the game". giving them a little kick back isn't going to go very far. would they put the $$ into server costs? bandwidth? marketing?
typically the MS exploits are released to MS well in advance, and then only after considerable amount of negligance on their part are disclosed to the community. it is proper to send exploits to the vendor first and allow them to resolve the issue.
I found the article very hard to follow for a technical comparison type article. The feature comparison jumped out as something the reader shouldn't need to read through heaps of comentaries on. A more tablular or bulleted format would be easier to sift through. also statements such as "the Web browser still has a few problems, is lacking in features, and its upgrade options are very limited." regarding knoqueror without any further overview of what those problems/lacking features/limited upgrade options are would be extremely beneficial to the reader. i realize the author delved into his personal horror story of a kde upgrade attempt on a rh 7.1 box, but that's more a redhat issue than a kde issue. has anyone experienced "dependancy hell" installing kde upgrades from source? i know it can be pretty challenging for some folks, "./configure && make && make install" is really all it takes (though there are better ways, this is probalby the easiest). next, on the latest version. the latest stable version that i am aware of for konqueror is 2.2.2. that's one point, point release away from what the author of the article is using. somewhere in the article, surely the author points out the most current version of kde as of writing? i couldn't find it.
one other thing, when that author begins with.. I use Evolution for Email and I needed advanced Web download facilities.>i>
i don't use evolution for email. could someone explain the corelation between using theis email product and requiring advanced web download facilities? and what are advanced web download facilities? aren't most downloads from the web? the advnaced features i can think of are, download resume from a partial download. maybe drag n drop download. i guess this is what turned me off from the start.
interesting. these are production web servers. hardly a good example of most mission critical applications. most of those boxes are tightly tucked behind a slew of firewalls.
i'd like to see the numbers showing unix v. vms stability... i have a feeling the unices won't be on top for that one. when the right tool for the right job concept is applied regarding system uptime vms must be considered.
the only person who's for this is jack valenti and probably the few congress folks that the MPAA is dishing out $$ to. it's nice to see intel is not on the same page as jack and co. the MPAA has gone too far folks!
green handle. i personally loathe green. the green was the win 95/98 default background color, and it's not nice. i also lived in a house that was completely green. green floors, green walls, green furnature, etc. i think the kids were turning green before we moved out. i for one might be inclined to pay money to/. to let me choose a more interesting color. site branding. everyone else is doing it, it's the kewl thing to do.
maybe download coresponds positivly to album sales?
maybe more people are using gnutella/morpheous (the hard core thieves are anyway probably not the most average consumer. everyone i knew who downloaded music during the napster days is still downloading via other methods. hell, lots of people d/l'd tons of music pre-napster on usenet.
maybe having a $13.74B revenue stream gives the RIAA a little money to pay teams of lawyers to do some creative shit to get them publicity and keep the business alive
or maybe, mariah carey isn't really worth $28M. an over 30 wacked out singer like her should be at most a club singer.
you're making quite a few big assumptions there. first, you assume the editors read the stuff they post. 9 times out of 10, that's not the case. secondly, you assume that the editors grammer would be better than that of the story submitter. thirdly, you assume these folks are journalists. they run a web site. they have a background programming mod perl to use mySql dbms. journalism? i'm not buying it..
why not? you buy a dvd player controlled by the mpaa. i'd think that corporate america is a large chunk of the pc sales industry. corporations don't give a f*ck about copy protection. they want email, word processing, spreadsheets, data maintenance and reports (same thing we've been doing for 20 years with pc's).
most browsers support ftp, gopher and others. i don't see it challenging for them to support a new protocol. most browsers are also designed to handle smtp, ntp, pop, irc, html authoring, etc. no wonder mozilla is slow. this isn't about replacing a protocol, it's about the right tool for the right job, and web services/applications don't work well with http. round hold, square peg kinda thing.
the kernel maintainers don't respond. only the persistant get their code included. the distributions most likely choose to spend their time on polishing and testing.
that, or they have better things to do with their time. why would they want to expend effort making sure their patches get applied to the "official" kernel, when chances are, it won't (the rik vm comes to mind). the kernel source management system is in need of, and has been for quite some time, a serious re-engineering in and of itself. i think talks have begun on implementing semi-automated procedures, which is a step in the right direction. i think it needs to go much further, and faster. i imagine there are quite a few trusted individuals would could have write access to their maintained areas of the kernel source.
this probably isn't a good example, but in most IM systems, you have the option to force people to request your permission to send you a message. meaning you won't get a message from someone unless you authorize them as a trusted person.is spamming im systems a problem? i haven't noticed it at all lately (maybe that's since i don't use AIM?). i'm not saying that this is the solution, but i am saying that a system OTHER than email as we know it has to be the solution. technology needs to take its course without legislative intervention. email as we know it could be gone in 10 years and we'll (as a country/state) spend resources coming up with legislation to combat a particular problem that was created by technology. if you live in an area where wood houses are getting overwhelmingly infested with termites, do you treat them every few years, and take legislation on wood manufactures to force creation of termite resistant wood, or do you find alterantive materials for construction? i would go the latter route for my house.
every project has to pick a technology and go with it. once off the ground, the effort to migrate is huge and takes away from operations (running the "business"). i am curious where you get that c++ is more "properly" suited for web site development? there's a right tool for the right job, and most often for robust web development, JSP/JavaBeans is the way to go.
sure the point might be contrary to the popular./ opinion, but does that make it any less relevant? who is in the right? the person speaking against racial discrimination, or the KKK? the point wasn't that spam is good and nice, the point was that it doesn't need to be solved by making laws (effectivly at the cost of the population as a whole). fix the system, don't apply a patch
i think you make some very interesting points, but i can't see that legislations, agencies, buracracy, etc. is the resolution to this problem. this is a problem created by an inheritantly flawed system. you have an email address, anyone can send a message addressed to that address. i realize that the costs for spam is much lower than unsolicited snail mail, but similar concepts apply.
i'm not sure what a better system would consist of, but i think the solution must lie in the system, and not in red tape, and large bureaucratic costs to society. especially when this forces each and every global user of the system to identify and resolve on the problem.
even if spam is illegal, does that really matter. spam email is here to stay.love it or hate it, it's how it is. can't we accept it and move on? oh, sure they're using some bandwidth here and there, and putting a HUGE strain on our corporate/private email servers. are there any concrete numbers on these claims? legislation is not the way to combat this type of thing. in a capitalistic society (i know the US is only semi-capitalistic) people would ignore spam and the spammers would stop because it's not profitable. kind of like banner ads, eh?
i think that in this current economy, people are scaling back on the loss leaders and focusing more on growing their core business. obviously, their x86 port of Solaris was not directly profitable. neither could their StarOffice product when given away. i couldn't really imagine how/why a company who is willing to shell out 50k for hardware to run their business will not put a supported os on it. most of the time those businesses are getting hardware they really don't need, but that's another story. if you buy a new car, are you going to go out and put a new engine and trannie in it that's not covered under the original warranty...
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these guys will never realize when it just doesn't make sense to do a project. aren't they the ones who started that gnome desktop years after the kde desktop because they didn't like the licensing terms? now that gnome (or some of it anyway) will be heavily using the M$ .NET technologies. i guess as long as their code can be licensed GPL, it's ok. really guys, this HURD thing, i've been reading about it here on /. for a few years now, and i just looks like a the little project that wouldn't die. yeah, fresh ideas are a good thing and all, but my question to those HURD people would be, what exactly are the new/interesting features (stability , robustness, smp) that you'll be providing the "community"? and how do you plan to over come the challenges the "other" kernel guys have gone through in the last 10+ years?
to throw a little sarcasm in: who knows, maybe _they'll_ accept that pre-emptable kernel patch someone submits. and maybe _they'll_ never have a release 1.15.dont_use_this_tar_ball release. maybe they just won't use virtual memory at all. (did you see what happened to the 2.4 linux series with that one?)
interesting point. is it better to donate $$ to something like the debian group who, as i understand it, are a non profit group which should be tax deductable? tho, with debian, the stable version is still running XFree 3.3.6 so I'm not sure that a donation really makes sense :).
i tried mandrake 8.1 and didn't like it really. there were some basic desktop features that didn't seem to be there that RH had. For instance, a basic install didn't put cdrom devices on the desktop. How are _new_ users suppose to know they can/have to add those? i guess donating $$ to a nonprofit org such as KDE or whatever tool you find usefull would be helpfull to all distros, and even those non linux guys). i've always wondered what someone like the kde project would do with donation money. i mean don't most of the developers (who make the product) work "for the love of the game". giving them a little kick back isn't going to go very far. would they put the $$ into server costs? bandwidth? marketing?
typically the MS exploits are released to MS well in advance, and then only after considerable amount of negligance on their part are disclosed to the community. it is proper to send exploits to the vendor first and allow them to resolve the issue.
I found the article very hard to follow for a technical comparison type article. The feature comparison jumped out as something the reader shouldn't need to read through heaps of comentaries on. A more tablular or bulleted format would be easier to sift through. also statements such as "the Web browser still has a few problems, is lacking in features, and its upgrade options are very limited." regarding knoqueror without any further overview of what those problems/lacking features/limited upgrade options are would be extremely beneficial to the reader. i realize the author delved into his personal horror story of a kde upgrade attempt on a rh 7.1 box, but that's more a redhat issue than a kde issue. has anyone experienced "dependancy hell" installing kde upgrades from source? i know it can be pretty challenging for some folks, "./configure && make && make install" is really all it takes (though there are better ways, this is probalby the easiest). next, on the latest version. the latest stable version that i am aware of for konqueror is 2.2.2. that's one point, point release away from what the author of the article is using. somewhere in the article, surely the author points out the most current version of kde as of writing? i couldn't find it.
one other thing, when that author begins with.. I use Evolution for Email and I needed advanced Web download facilities.>i>
i don't use evolution for email. could someone explain the corelation between using theis email product and requiring advanced web download facilities? and what are advanced web download facilities? aren't most downloads from the web? the advnaced features i can think of are, download resume from a partial download. maybe drag n drop download. i guess this is what turned me off from the start.
interesting. these are production web servers. hardly a good example of most mission critical applications. most of those boxes are tightly tucked behind a slew of firewalls.
i'd like to see the numbers showing unix v. vms stability... i have a feeling the unices won't be on top for that one. when the right tool for the right job concept is applied regarding system uptime vms must be considered.
the only person who's for this is jack valenti and probably the few congress folks that the MPAA is dishing out $$ to. it's nice to see intel is not on the same page as jack and co. the MPAA has gone too far folks!
green handle. i personally loathe green. the green was the win 95/98 default background color, and it's not nice. i also lived in a house that was completely green. green floors, green walls, green furnature, etc. i think the kids were turning green before we moved out. i for one might be inclined to pay money to /. to let me choose a more interesting color. site branding. everyone else is doing it, it's the kewl thing to do.
maybe download coresponds positivly to album sales?
maybe more people are using gnutella/morpheous (the hard core thieves are anyway probably not the most average consumer. everyone i knew who downloaded music during the napster days is still downloading via other methods. hell, lots of people d/l'd tons of music pre-napster on usenet.
maybe having a $13.74B revenue stream gives the RIAA a little money to pay teams of lawyers to do some creative shit to get them publicity and keep the business alive
or maybe, mariah carey isn't really worth $28M. an over 30 wacked out singer like her should be at most a club singer.
it would be really cool if /. would have a ticker on their front page that tracks a companies stock for the duration the story is on the front page.
you're making quite a few big assumptions there. first, you assume the editors read the stuff they post. 9 times out of 10, that's not the case. secondly, you assume that the editors grammer would be better than that of the story submitter. thirdly, you assume these folks are journalists. they run a web site. they have a background programming mod perl to use mySql dbms. journalism? i'm not buying it..
how easy it is to be misunderstood w/ some punctuation missing. please let me correct myself
:) better be a phat check!"
"are they paying us?
why not? you buy a dvd player controlled by the mpaa.
i'd think that corporate america is a large chunk of the pc sales industry. corporations don't give a f*ck about copy protection. they want email, word processing, spreadsheets, data maintenance and reports (same thing we've been doing for 20 years with pc's).
when did we let them on the internet? are they paying us? better be a phat check!
most browsers support ftp, gopher and others. i don't see it challenging for them to support a new protocol. most browsers are also designed to handle smtp, ntp, pop, irc, html authoring, etc. no wonder mozilla is slow. this isn't about replacing a protocol, it's about the right tool for the right job, and web services/applications don't work well with http. round hold, square peg kinda thing.
the kernel maintainers don't respond. only the persistant get their code included. the distributions most likely choose to spend their time on polishing and testing.
that, or they have better things to do with their time. why would they want to expend effort making sure their patches get applied to the "official" kernel, when chances are, it won't (the rik vm comes to mind). the kernel source management system is in need of, and has been for quite some time, a serious re-engineering in and of itself. i think talks have begun on implementing semi-automated procedures, which is a step in the right direction. i think it needs to go much further, and faster. i imagine there are quite a few trusted individuals would could have write access to their maintained areas of the kernel source.
this probably isn't a good example, but in most IM systems, you have the option to force people to request your permission to send you a message. meaning you won't get a message from someone unless you authorize them as a trusted person.is spamming im systems a problem? i haven't noticed it at all lately (maybe that's since i don't use AIM?). i'm not saying that this is the solution, but i am saying that a system OTHER than email as we know it has to be the solution. technology needs to take its course without legislative intervention. email as we know it could be gone in 10 years and we'll (as a country/state) spend resources coming up with legislation to combat a particular problem that was created by technology. if you live in an area where wood houses are getting overwhelmingly infested with termites, do you treat them every few years, and take legislation on wood manufactures to force creation of termite resistant wood, or do you find alterantive materials for construction? i would go the latter route for my house.
every project has to pick a technology and go with it. once off the ground, the effort to migrate is huge and takes away from operations (running the "business"). i am curious where you get that c++ is more "properly" suited for web site development? there's a right tool for the right job, and most often for robust web development, JSP/JavaBeans is the way to go.
kinda like all the people making money off the KDE bible? or the Red Hat Linux Bible? or any other books pretaining to free software? wow...
sure the point might be contrary to the popular ./ opinion, but does that make it any less relevant? who is in the right? the person speaking against racial discrimination, or the KKK?
the point wasn't that spam is good and nice, the point was that it doesn't need to be solved by making laws (effectivly at the cost of the population as a whole). fix the system, don't apply a patch
i think you make some very interesting points, but i can't see that legislations, agencies, buracracy, etc. is the resolution to this problem. this is a problem created by an inheritantly flawed system. you have an email address, anyone can send a message addressed to that address. i realize that the costs for spam is much lower than unsolicited snail mail, but similar concepts apply.
i'm not sure what a better system would consist of, but i think the solution must lie in the system, and not in red tape, and large bureaucratic costs to society. especially when this forces each and every global user of the system to identify and resolve on the problem.
even if spam is illegal, does that really matter. spam email is here to stay.love it or hate it, it's how it is. can't we accept it and move on? oh, sure they're using some bandwidth here and there, and putting a HUGE strain on our corporate/private email servers. are there any concrete numbers on these claims? legislation is not the way to combat this type of thing. in a capitalistic society (i know the US is only semi-capitalistic) people would ignore spam and the spammers would stop because it's not profitable. kind of like banner ads, eh?
isn't that hawkey?
i think that in this current economy, people are scaling back on the loss leaders and focusing more on growing their core business. obviously, their x86 port of Solaris was not directly profitable. neither could their StarOffice product when given away.
i couldn't really imagine how/why a company who is willing to shell out 50k for hardware to run their business will not put a supported os on it. most of the time those businesses are getting hardware they really don't need, but that's another story. if you buy a new car, are you going to go out and put a new engine and trannie in it that's not covered under the original warranty...