Oh don't remind me. I think this is a great example of how an American Company can ruin a great show. I thought it would be pretty hard since Escaflowne is just that damn good, but I guess it's easy when you delete the plot, the characters and even the well orchestrated music by Yoko Kanno.
Since when was this dub sanctioned by the creator? I think this is a complete lie. If you look on IMDB the credits for Spike is David Lucas for the dub and Koichi Yamdera for the original. This is hardly the same person. And I seriously doubt the ditz on the dub is Megumi Hayashibara.
WHICH IS BETTER FOR IT. No clumsy interpretations of cultural in-jokes or speech patterns. You're not "running away from the original interpretation" like that idiot said, you're expereincing the film from the POV of YOUR culture
You know I hate it when people say that dubs are better purely because it 'americanizes' it. I hate to break it to you, but it's not an American product. It's a Japanese product and the fact you watch it is because you enjoy JAPANESE product. Even if it has cultural reference that you may not understand, you as the viewer chose to watch a Japanese product. It's pathetic that people find THEIR OWN culture far superior than another's and thus feel that they must be catered to in their own culture.
A VERY interesting thing is that I've heard in some countries, they DON'T dub over American movies. They show them with subtitles with the original actor's voice. Why? Because it's an American film and it shouldn't be made "Japanese" or whatever other country to cater to their people. It's a respect for the other's culture to keep it in the purest form possible, as true to the original as possible. Now I know subtitles can also be mistranslated, but I find that a lot closer to the original. I find it hard to believe that a group of no talent dubbers try and get the 'original feel' when the director/creator isn't even there.
I guess this analogy will illustrate my point better since I'm sure there are a lot of Star Wars fans out there who can sympathize with it ^_^. How would you feel if in Japan, they took Empire Strikes Back, dubbed Darth Vader over with a woman's voice and changed some of the dialogue to fit the mouth movements like say: "Luke I'm your Uncle." Now you can't argue that this significantly changes the plot and characters. It is the same case with "americanizing" a Japanese product.
Now that may be a bit extreme, but this stuff happens all the time in anime. In Evangelion, Shinji Ikari's VA is a female in Japan. It is used to convey his well...'wussiness' ^_^, however in the US dub he's quite a bit more masculine.
Wanna know how much better the dub is than even the orinigal translation? Try watching the DVD's with the english dub AND the subtitles turned on. There's significant POSITIVE differences
Yes there are changes, as in...they changed dialogue that was originally closer to the subtitles. How does this help your point? In fact, my friend was the translator on the US Cowboy Bebop DVD and his translation is quite accurate to the original dialogue. If anything, you've proven how dubbers change the dialogue to fit mouth movements or US culture.
so stick it up your "more otaku than thou" ASS
I think someone needs to just 'chill.' It's not a "holier than thou" philosophy. If that was the case, I would watch in Japanese in the purest possible way. I just believe that things should be watched as closely to the creator's original vision as possible for the audience. We're all capable of reading aren't we?
...more crap cartoon drawings of prepubescent girls so that sad morons with no life can wank off to the closest thing they will ever get to a real "woman".
If that's all you see in anime well then, you're really missin' out, looking in the wrong places or just messed up.
I agree that it's nice to see a more diverse selection of anime now instead of just Pokemon and Dragonball Z. This type of exposure is great because more and more people will see anime and hopefully like it and in turn more anime from Japan will be imported.
However, the real problem is that anime isn't just censored it's totally re-editted so that children can watch it. Like you've said, sometimes the plot is even re-written and that makes no sense. Why even bring a series to the states if you're just gonna change the important stuff?
I just hate how US companies still think the primary audience for anime is children. Bebop is certainly not for children. Is it that hard to believe a 'cartoon' can be geared toward an adult, that it can contain serious ideas and be just as well made as a motion picture?
Sorry for the rant, but this topic just gets me fired up ^_^
I couldn't agree with you more on the dubbing and censorship issue. The same thing happened to my favorite anime series: Escaflowne.
Lots of people I know saw the Fox's version and said the exact same thing: "What's the big deal with anime?" It's a damn shame that Bebop is next to be slaughtered since it is definitely in my Top 5 Anime as well.
Do US companies really think that only children watch these 'cartoons' and that we aren't capable of reading subtitles? God forbid we have a show in another language that doesn't sound like crap.
Far Superior to the ORIGINAL Japanese? Isn't it impossible to surpass the original intended voice? Dub by definition is inferior...you're dubbing OVER the original creator's chosen character/voice.
That's the fundamental problem with dubbing, the creator's vision is somewhat tarnished. I mean take Evangelion, did Hideaki Anno come down to ADV in the states and help in the casting of voice actors? No, he picked Megumi Hayashbara (spelling?) as Rei because he felt that is how Rei should sound.
I don't understand why people want to watch dubs when all they're really watching is a portion of the original idea and feeling. In some cases, they just change lines to fit the mouth movement. And don't make it seem like it doesn't change the story. I'm positive they'll change some of the more 'questionable' lines in Bebop which are essential to the story and for what? To match an animated mouth?
Then again I guess the 'right' way to watch is to watch in raw japanese because then a translator can't mess you up, but at least with subtitles you HEAR the original voices and feeling.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh don't remind me. I think this is a great example of how an American Company can ruin a great show. I thought it would be pretty hard since Escaflowne is just that damn good, but I guess it's easy when you delete the plot, the characters and even the well orchestrated music by Yoko Kanno.
WHICH IS BETTER FOR IT. No clumsy interpretations of cultural in-jokes or speech patterns. You're not "running away from the original interpretation" like that idiot said, you're expereincing the film from the POV of YOUR culture
You know I hate it when people say that dubs are better purely because it 'americanizes' it. I hate to break it to you, but it's not an American product. It's a Japanese product and the fact you watch it is because you enjoy JAPANESE product. Even if it has cultural reference that you may not understand, you as the viewer chose to watch a Japanese product. It's pathetic that people find THEIR OWN culture far superior than another's and thus feel that they must be catered to in their own culture.
A VERY interesting thing is that I've heard in some countries, they DON'T dub over American movies. They show them with subtitles with the original actor's voice. Why? Because it's an American film and it shouldn't be made "Japanese" or whatever other country to cater to their people. It's a respect for the other's culture to keep it in the purest form possible, as true to the original as possible. Now I know subtitles can also be mistranslated, but I find that a lot closer to the original. I find it hard to believe that a group of no talent dubbers try and get the 'original feel' when the director/creator isn't even there.
I guess this analogy will illustrate my point better since I'm sure there are a lot of Star Wars fans out there who can sympathize with it ^_^. How would you feel if in Japan, they took Empire Strikes Back, dubbed Darth Vader over with a woman's voice and changed some of the dialogue to fit the mouth movements like say: "Luke I'm your Uncle." Now you can't argue that this significantly changes the plot and characters. It is the same case with "americanizing" a Japanese product.
Now that may be a bit extreme, but this stuff happens all the time in anime. In Evangelion, Shinji Ikari's VA is a female in Japan. It is used to convey his well...'wussiness' ^_^, however in the US dub he's quite a bit more masculine.
Wanna know how much better the dub is than even the orinigal translation? Try watching the DVD's with the english dub AND the subtitles turned on. There's significant POSITIVE differences
Yes there are changes, as in...they changed dialogue that was originally closer to the subtitles. How does this help your point? In fact, my friend was the translator on the US Cowboy Bebop DVD and his translation is quite accurate to the original dialogue. If anything, you've proven how dubbers change the dialogue to fit mouth movements or US culture.
so stick it up your "more otaku than thou" ASS
I think someone needs to just 'chill.' It's not a "holier than thou" philosophy. If that was the case, I would watch in Japanese in the purest possible way. I just believe that things should be watched as closely to the creator's original vision as possible for the audience. We're all capable of reading aren't we?
If that's all you see in anime well then, you're really missin' out, looking in the wrong places or just messed up.
Yes, I don't think human beings were supposed to talk that fast ^_^
However, the real problem is that anime isn't just censored it's totally re-editted so that children can watch it. Like you've said, sometimes the plot is even re-written and that makes no sense. Why even bring a series to the states if you're just gonna change the important stuff?
I just hate how US companies still think the primary audience for anime is children. Bebop is certainly not for children. Is it that hard to believe a 'cartoon' can be geared toward an adult, that it can contain serious ideas and be just as well made as a motion picture?
Sorry for the rant, but this topic just gets me fired up ^_^
No, it's "Tank" composed by Yoko Kanno and I THINK the band is the Seatbelts. The Soundtrack for Bebop is quite good.
Lots of people I know saw the Fox's version and said the exact same thing: "What's the big deal with anime?" It's a damn shame that Bebop is next to be slaughtered since it is definitely in my Top 5 Anime as well.
Do US companies really think that only children watch these 'cartoons' and that we aren't capable of reading subtitles? God forbid we have a show in another language that doesn't sound like crap.
That's the fundamental problem with dubbing, the creator's vision is somewhat tarnished. I mean take Evangelion, did Hideaki Anno come down to ADV in the states and help in the casting of voice actors? No, he picked Megumi Hayashbara (spelling?) as Rei because he felt that is how Rei should sound.
I don't understand why people want to watch dubs when all they're really watching is a portion of the original idea and feeling. In some cases, they just change lines to fit the mouth movement. And don't make it seem like it doesn't change the story. I'm positive they'll change some of the more 'questionable' lines in Bebop which are essential to the story and for what? To match an animated mouth?
Then again I guess the 'right' way to watch is to watch in raw japanese because then a translator can't mess you up, but at least with subtitles you HEAR the original voices and feeling.